Can we ever compromise? RE:Gun laws

Big Sky Redneck

Is compromise the right word? Any of you grammatical scholars can correct me if you wish[:D]

I know this is a dead horse but it has been bugging me for awhile now and since I know the flaming I would get if I said exactly how I feel about this I have refrained from asking on here. I'll just touch base on a couple things without devulging too many of my thoughts.

We know by now we will never see all gun laws repealed, I feel if you believe that they will you are living in a fantasy land, gun laws are here to stay whether we like them or not, too much diversity in the country for that to happen. Well maybe when pigs fly.

If we cannot get them all repealed, what can we do? I ask, can we compromise? If so what would you be willing to let go that you think would help in the long run?

The AWB, if we cannot have it all back, would you trade off a few pieces of it to get some rights back? Say maybe let them keep the mag cap law in favor of allowing certain guns to be imported again? As most of you know I have no use for an AK but many of you do, would you like to see more AKs and keep the 10 round limit or would you chance losing it all?

Nationwide carry, now I saw a thread by Josey1 that may hit on this but I havent read it yet but I will. Now if we cannot get nationwide carry, would you settle for less? Maybe allow for a more stringent background check and training for the states that have CCW to honor all permits while hoping for more states to adopt CCW?

ClassIII guns, keep the 1986 ban in effect and relax requirements and registration for those already on the market? Or maybe stiffen requirements and have the 1986 ban lifted?

These are just a couple from the top of my head, any more suggestions or do you just want to boo me out of the room?

All comments welcomed, even the nasty ones[:D] Just trying to stir up a good debate.

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Politicians are like diapers, every so often you need to change them, for obvious reasons.

gunpaq

A good attorney, which most politicians are, know's that if the other side is willing to compromise or trade off something then the case is won. It's a no win situation to compromise or trade something off to keep a little of something else that will be further widdled away or taken in the future.

These communist politicians and dupped activists are out to destroy our nation's independence and the freedom of our people and maybe this is inevitable in time as the American culture is fully diversified and nonexistent as a single identity.

Make them pay for every right and freedom they try to take away. The Marines on Wake Island did not compromise or make trade offs with the Japs and made them pay dearly for the taking of the island. make them pay with the loss of time, money, supporters, votes, etc.

This issue is more than just gun control it is about the survival of our country and it's citizens remaining free men.

Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.<BR>

n/a

NO compromise!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is precisely how the liberals have gotten as far as they have! We must stand, for what we believe in. Period. The liberals keep chipping away...if we do not stand, no one will. Sorry, but I think that is a very bad idea.

Eric

IAMAHUSKER

compromise = Gray area!! The politicians just love those little grey areas!! That is where they do their best work, slowly taking everything and every freedom you have!!! Don't take my word for it pick up a history book and see where we were and where we are now!! HUGE HUGE difference!!!!!

Big Sky Redneck

You know, I am looking at the history book, we are losing! What, do you think one or two minor victories among the antis few hundred are going to save the day? Ohh boy, the .50bmg didn't get banned in Cal, but look at what did over the last 10 years! Look at where this is heading, they are backing us into a corner, what to do? Call me what you wish, but maybe, just maybe we can stop all this nonsense and work out a deal that will help and benifit everybody. I'm sorry but the "Give it all back to me" attitude is what is losing our rights, the more we complain, the more they take, and your history book shows that. How many gun laws have been repealed with the "Screw you and your compromise" attitude vs how many new gun laws have been written? I would like to keep what I got, not lose them thank you.

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Politicians are like diapers, every so often you need to change them, for obvious reasons.

gunpaq

A williness to compromise shows a chinque in the armor. Shrewd negotiating yes, compromise no.

If we compromise they will take more than they would if there were no compromising. Compromise is the slippery slope well greased.

Does one actually think that these politicians will act in good faith on any deal or compromise that may be made concerning gun bans and restrictions on our rights in order to preserve a choice few?

Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.<BR>

Highball

COMPROMISE ??!!!!

Lets see..we went from a nation buying and freely selling firearms of every discription..even in my younger days every gas station and antique store had a gun or three to trade...throught the mail,on the corner..WHEREVER...

So we COMPROMISED...
No mail sales
no buying a new gun without some pin-strip suit okaying it
No machine guns without some pin-strip okaying and huge taxes
no carrying without permission and huge taxes
no barrel under some arbitrary pin headed lenght
no mags unless under some pin-headed capacity
no this gun
no that gun
on and on and on and on and..endless..they NEVER stop demanding

22,000 times we,with the help of the NRA...COMPROMISED..a RIGHT,no less..excuse me...will YOU EVER draw a line...???

God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??

mark christian

Politics is of course a game of give and take; take as much as you can, but give up as little as possible. The 1986 ban on furture registration machineguns for private sales as an example. On the surface this seems ridiculous since registered machineguns were practically never used in violent crimes, but Rep. Hughes had a real issue about MG's and wanted to do something about it. He was never able to get a stand alone Bill considered, but he had another idea.

What was done was to tack the so called Hughes Ammmendment onto the 1986 firearms Owners Protection Act-- often called McClure-Volkmer after the men who sponsered the bill. The FOPA was designed to elimintate some of the more objectionable parts of the 1968 Gun Control Act: The end on the prohibition on importing surplus military firearms if they were C&R's (this is why we have all of those CZ-52's, SKS carbines, Mosin-Magants that everyone loves so much), the end of the prohibition on long gun sales to out of state buyer (no more contiguous state non sense), the end on the prohibition of mail order ammunition sales (you used to have to have an FFL to buy ammo-- even the bullets), the end of ammunition record keeping by dealers, the right of safe passage when traveling with a firearm through variuos states if the firearm is locked and secured, and some other adjustments to the GCA-68 as well.

At the last minute (midnight) the Hughes Ammendment was added and the Bill went to President Reagan. The NRA was in support of the legislation because it did give us back some of what was lost in 1968. The loss of course was new machineguns. The reality of the situation was that VERY few gun owners cared about registering new machineguns and would much rather purchase a newly imported M1 Garand or buy a new shotgun at a gun show three states away. President Reagan signed the Bill and the idea was to simply go back at a later date and remove the Hughes Ammendment from the legislation. The problem was that by 1989 the entire firearms situation had turned 180 degrees; Now we were looking at the Brady Bill and the Bush AW import ban and our friends in Congress, amny of whom voted with us in 1986, put their heads in the sand and ignored us. On the whole I still believe that the average gun owner would have exchanged the ban on registering new machineguns for what was gained by the FOPA.

Mark T. Christian

mballai

The problem with compromise is that you are willing to give away something. If something is a legal and natural right, why should that be something that requires compromise? If you look at the Second Amendment, it says as plainly as possible that this is something that is not to be compromised. What part of not infringe does a gun owner not understand and what part of not infringe would a gun control person respect if gun owners were willing to compromise?

Every gun law is effectively unconstitutional and it is up to us to work towards getting them thrown out. No one has ever proven the viability of any of them. Are we such sheep that we so willingly swallow this law and that one when the blood of the founding fathers was poured out in an uncompromising affirmation of everything that the Second Amendment stands for?

God help us to never ever even consider compromising the right to keep and bear arms. I'll listen to anyone advocating gun control but if they cannot show what they have to be of value beyond the Second Amendment, all they will get is my polite attention which I hope they will return when I repeat the Second Amendent in my response.





Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead

Varmintmist

How about this? We allow a ban on "sniper rifles" to get nationwide carry. Make illeagal all scopes with more than 2X magnification. Hey, the latest firearm front page murders were done with scopes. Yeah, I think its time the Fudds did a little compromising, good idea 7mm.

Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.

nitrouz

Compromise this. When there is no more oil there are no more laws.

They will not be enforcable and those whom were smart enough to stock pile an armory will be the men that are eating.



"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
- Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36

mark christian

Is that the reason that you are planning on burying that school bus in your backyard Nitro? Remember, this sort of thing is only effective when no one knows that you are doing it!

Mark T. Christian

rldowns3

Compromise? If I were to do so it would have to be written that after the compromise is made that no new gun ban laws could ever be made. I would be willing to give up the "saturday night specials" like jennings, bryco's, phoenix arms, ect... in favor of getting back high cap detachable magazines. I would be willing to give up bayonet lugs in favor of getting back the "grip that protrudes conspicously beneath the gun" (i.e. what klinton called a pistol grip). I would also be willing to give them folding stocks if they would give up the part on a handgun that bans handguns with magazines that are attached anyplace except within the handle and that crap about an unloaded weight of more than 50 ounces.

Folding stocks are about useless on most firearms, 10 round magazines pretty much make semi-automatic rifles pointless and a lot of great handling rifles were designed with a pistol grip.

-Ever try to aim and fire an AK with the stock folded up? Futile.
-A 10 round magazine on an AK, AR-15, FAL, Cetme, ect.. - may as well go back to M-1 Garands, better round, range and accuracy for the most part.
An AK, AR-15, FAL, Cetme ect... without a pistol grip....would be probably pretty odd to handle.

nitrouz

Mark, No one does know. Heck you think I'm some military guy stationed in California......Who really knows.



"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
- Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36

lead

I remember years ago being involved in a totally different matter that was under legal attack. We were told that we could expect to have the "conviction" rule applied to us. What that meant was, lawyers would be probing to find out if our beliefs were just preferences, or heart felt convictions. As long as we were willing to compromise it wasn't a conviction and the local authorities could use that against us. Is the right to own a gun a conviction for us? Do we believe in the 2nd amendment as a right or a priviledge? Driving is a priviledge, it can be taken away. What is our true conviction?

Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.

rldowns3

Driving may be a priveladge but they will never get my gun(s).

hawkeye6020

7MM, if someone has you backed into a corner what do you do? try to compromise your way out of it or come out swinging? do you say "well you can punch me in the nose and kick me in the nades if you let me out of the corner" or do you say "F**K YOU" and start throwing punches. When you start to compromise there is no end to the fight, just little victorys for them. They will keep asking you to compromise untill they have what they want and YOU right where they want YOU. compromise, man NO WAY!!!

Mike

Iconoclast

Bubba, I believe Patrick Henry and Sam Adams had the correct intellectual approach to the compromise of basic rights . . . .

kimberkid

quote:Originally posted by rldowns3
Compromise? If I were to do so it would have to be written that after the compromise is made that no new gun ban laws could ever be made.

Yep ... and I'm sure you could count on the government keeping its promises ...
... just like they always do wheather its in written or verbal ... just ask the Indians [V]

===========================
Chance favors the prepared mind [8D]

kimberkid@cox.net

rldowns3

Yea I know...I essentially said I'd never compromise because we all know that the government would never agree to my terms[:D]

IAMACLONE_2

Dont give an inch!, unless you want to be the next victim.
This foolishness of attempting to ban everything, has to stop for once and for all.
This old world is too unstable to risk being unable to protect yourself and family.
Walte

longhunter

I agree ,the comprmising has to stop.On the face of it ,it would SEEM logical...of course this is what the parties would have you believe...that comprimising IS..THE AMERICAN way..Is it? Has it been?...I don't think so, until lately.What will be next?Any guns with military roots?So there go all those "sporterized" military bolt actions....We've BEEN COMPRIMIZING...where has it got us thus far...[V]

He Dog

Nitrouz- The Shadow does...

7mm. Compromise. Ok you want to sell a Win 94 and tell me the price is $600 but negotiable. I already know the price is not $600 but something less. NO WAY are you ever going to get $600 for it. I may offer $300. They have already gotten what they have gotten without compromise, you are only going to make it easier for them.

Hmmmmm, maybe $200.

My heros have always killed cowboys.

offeror

I agree with those who say that every gun law compromises our Second Amendment rights.

I also agree that normally when two sides compromise the battle is over. In this case, the anti-gunners will never stop asking for more. They consider every compromise a skirmish in the battle for all our gun rights. You might as well talk about a compromise with Hitler to territory rights.

There is no reason to compromise the Bill of Rights. Those who do it are misled as to the sanctity of those rights, or the extent of the protections assured. Oddly, these people don't seem to have the same confusion over the sanctity of the First Amendment, or the Fourth or Fifth. Only the Second supposedly does not preserve a right of the people, even though the "people" are mentioned by name.

T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."

bigdaddyjunior

Here is my compromise. In exchange for a repeal of all gun laws not involving a crime otherwise, gun handling and safety will be taught in all public schools from grades 1-12. Upon graduation from highschool everyone that can not afford a gun will have one provided for them by the government. Anyone convicted of a violent crime with a weapon will be executed after one appeal. Anyone convicted of a violent crime without a weapon ie. rape, child molestation etc. will face a mandatory life sentence with a limit of one appeal every three years. Escaped felons can be shot on sight by any citizen and said citizen can apply for a reward equal to the cost of housing a prisoner for one year.Anyone caught handling or discharging a gun in an unsafe manner will upon conviction lose the right to carry for a period of not less than thirty days or more than one year plus a mandatory enrollment in a government provided firearms safety course.

Big Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems

select-fire

Mark C comments are correct. I am an ordinary citizen who enjoys shooting, yet my rights were comprimised when the 86 machine gun ban went into effect. Prices on guns went thru the roof. I foresee assault weapons doing the same thing. Registration with possibly a 200 tax stamp included. Fewer people will own em then, and in time they will phase out just as all machine guns will. Just what the government wants, however these type of weapons are very seldom used in crime.( I am talking legally owned weapons) but all pay the price. Sad

salzo

No compromise. The constitution should never be "compromised". If we stopped worrying so much about our rights, and instead focused on insisting that the government adheres to its restrictions spelled out in the constitution, then gun control would not be an issue. THe problem is that people are not concerned about the document, but are only concerned about PARTS of the document. Many who profess the sanctity of the second amendment couldnt give a hoot about other areas that the government is prohibted from getting involved with, but tread there anyway. It is no longer an issue of keeping the government bound by the constitution, but now everything is reduced to "is it a good idea when the government gets involved, or is it a bad idea-few even consider whether the government has the authority to get involved in the first place. The first question that should be asked whenever the government acts, is "Is it constituional-do they have the constitutional authority?" Unfortunately few even ask that question, much less ask it first-and as a result, the constitution is worthess, because the government does not adhere to the constitution, but instead to the wishes of the majority-and the majority does not factor in the constitutionality question.

"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once"
-David Hume

NickCWinter

Quoting from "Oklahoma": It's gone about as fur as it kin go.

snarlgard

the simple answer is no

Lt. snarlgard RRG
SMILE...MAKE EM WONDER WHAT YOUR UP TO[}:)]

boeboe

Any compromise is unacceptable.

To err is human, to moo is bovine.

IAMAHUSKER

Bigdaddy!!! That is the best thing I have heard in a long time!!!! Damn man, you put some thought into that one. Kinda sounds like the way it used to be in the 1800's. You call that compromise, I call that freaking heaven!!! Keep coming up with those good ideas!! It might just get us somewhere!!!!! Vote me in on your idea!!

IAMAHUSKER

Can't believe there are folks on here who would actually compromise!!!
Compromise= Gray Area!!! Politicians love grey areas!!!!!!! They also love to create grey areas....Its what they do best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big Sky Redneck

I expected these kind of replies and I surley hope y'all don't think I'm battin for the wrong team because I'm not, I will stand by you any day to help defend our rights. Even for those stupid AKs that I hate more than Janet Reno[}:)] I would help defend your right to own a commie gun if that is what you want. I'm not one of those who say, "As long as they don't touch my huntin guns", I believe a gun is a gun, no matter the type of action.

The reason I posted this question is simply because I see us losing the battle as it is being fought now, the antis are pounding us with artillary and air power, we are fighting back with .22s. I didn't suggest this to erode more rights, I suggested this to help stop the erosion untill we can regroup and start a new fight. Admit it folks, we are severly outnumbered, kids are taught in school that guns are bad, the media pounds the gullible every week and are succeding far faster in convincing the masses then we are. This post was not about me turning traitor, it was about me being scared that we are losing. We may win one or two small battles but we have lost a lot of ground in the war with no end in sight. It does appear though that some are still shouting "Don't kill me!' to the hangman as he grabs the handle.

Now, are we still friends?[:)]

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Politicians are like diapers, every so often you need to change them, for obvious reasons.

IAMAHUSKER

Sorry man I did not mean to offend. I just am really tired of the errosion of ALL our rights. Compromise is what has been killing us from day one and if you look at history you will see that it (compromise) never did any good!! EVER!!!! What I am saying is that you can count on them trying to take your guns!! Don't matter what kind but, they are really really hot after them and are passing laws in the name of terroism to get them. They are lying cheating and killing to get what they want! What are we willing to do???? There is no turing back, it is all gone!! YOu will fight, give up, or die your choice... I chose death and the fact that I will take a few of them with me before I go!! I now where I will go after I die!!!!

IAMAHUSKER

I know, I know, there are a lot of people who think I am nuts!! Guess what??? They thought the same thing about our founding fathers!! Am I putting my self on the same level as our founding fathers??? Hell no, I would not even be able to hold a cup for them to pee in!! All I am saying is I get what they where trying to say and I am willing to STAND!! LIKE AN AMERICAN DID IN THOSE DAYS!! At least God will know that I do it not for selfish reasons, but for his Glory. After all that is what the country was founded on!!

Horse Plains Drifter

BDJ: Your idea sounds like an excellant one to me.

81st FA BN WWII...Thanks Dad
U!S!A! ALL THE WAY!!

gunpaq

We will continue to fight a losing battle as long as our brothers in arms continue to vote their union and party and not their personal convictions.

Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.<BR>

Stormtrooper 13

I like bigdaddy's idea !!![:D]

pickenup

You are right 7mm, we are loosing the battle. The best we can hope for, at this point, is to "slow down" the erosion of our rights. Compromise means give and take by both sides. They will never "give" anything. They will only "not take" if we do not let them. They will keep "taking" small bites until their ultimate goal (TOTAL gun ban) is achieved. If they can not take a bite here, they will "settle" for taking a bite there (for now). Sheeple will allow small bites at a time, not realizing/caring that (collectively) they add up to HUGH chunks. Compromise? NO!! We must do everything in our power to stop them dead in their tracks NOW.


The gene pool needs chlorine.

Highball

Really sorry to have to disagree with pickenup..who in their right mind would want to stop 'them' now ?
You happy with the almost total loss of gun RIGHTS in this country...feel it is such a 'minor' loss anyone ought to be able to live with it ? Really ?

Either we are free..or we are not. There ain't no half-free..unless you be halfased....

Let the garbage have their day..pass their laws..ban the guns.Much too late in the evening to turn the sunlight back on.Only by striding through the night will those of us who value freedom ever see another dawn....the night those brave,foolish, wonderful heroes 230 years ago came through and forged the greatest country ever put on earth..The dawn of FREEDOM for the average man.

That freedom taken away by cowards with pens..because a pen is mightier then a sword,when men willingly lay down their swords...

God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??

nitrouz

Well none of us are old enough to see the dawn...maybe some of us will see the sunset of freedom....looks like it's going West to East instead of East to West.



"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
- Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36