Are you a "gun dealer"? ATF Regulations

Spider7115

In light of Obama's recent Executive Order regarding gun sales, the BATF has issued a publication defining who is and who isn't considered a "dealer" under current law. Basically, nothing has changed except ATF will intensify their investigations of non-licensees who engage in the business of buying and selling firearms. Pay particular attention to the "examples" at the end of their publication. As sellers on GunBroker ship firearms to licensed FFL dealers, there is little to be concerned about regarding background checks.

However, particular care should be taken if you are an unlicensed individual who buys and sells on a regular basis, both online and/or at gun shows, where it is evident that you are doing it for profit, i.e., "engaged in business".

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/05/atf-guidance-on-who-qualifies-as-firearms-dealer.html

You can download the ATF publication in .pdf format directly here:

https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download

JnRockwall

I bought several ARs in the panic and sold the upper bcg case paper box and acc for what I got the rifle for. All I kept was the lower. Now I have several spare lowers and would like to move them out but the new law has me concerned about doing anything with them.

usmc1978

My opinion based on what the law actually says, if you're not buying on a regular basis and selling the same guns, you have little to worry about. Selling your personal firearms (without buying more for the purpose of re-selling) is never wrong. The buzzards are trying to scare regular guys out of doing what red blooded Americans do. Incidentally, that ATF guide doesn't even contain the entire definition of 'engaged in the business,' it just contains snippets. Again, just the parts to scare you. In fact, at least one part of it is misleading. Here is the entire legal definition, for those who buy and sell (there are different definitions for ammo manufacturing, gunsmithing, etc.): Title 27, Chapter II, Subchapter B, Part 478, Subpart B, 478.11
(c) Dealer in firearms other than a gunsmith or a pawnbroker. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such a term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;

peddler

I have been going to a gun show in Birmingham, Al for the last 10 years or so and I see the same 5-6 guys selling at a table and I know they are selling for a profit but they do not have a license. It hurts the honest dealer that buys a license.

bambihunter

quote:Originally posted by usmc1978
dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms


I think the bolded word above is key. I buy and sell, buy and sell, but I keep some. Yeah, I sometimes make money, sometimes lose money (at least the shipping and transfer)but for fun and to try all kinds of firearms rather than for livelihood.

11b6r

I know this thread is a couple of years old, but a worthwhile reminder- a Captain in law enforcement down in San Diego just got busted for selling without a license. Be careful.

Grasshopper

11b6r wrote:

I know this thread is a couple of years old, but a worthwhile reminder- a Captain in law enforcement down in San Diego just got busted for selling without a license. Be careful.

Any details? Trading to much ? Or selling to many ?

11b6r

this was the case from San Diego: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ex-san-diego-sheriffs-captain-4-others-indicted-in-connection-with-illegal-gun-sales/ar-BBXce6p?ocid=spartandhp

bambihunter

Anyone know what they are referring to in the link provided @11b6r by this:

"law that requires people who buy or sell more than five guns a year to have a federal license." I would think that is just a CA law.

I hadn't ever seen a set limit stated and have been going by the the info found here: https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download "Under federal law, a person engaged in the business of dealing in firearms is a per-son who “devotes time, attention and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms.”

mrmike08075

This issue was a big problem in the late 80's and 90's...

Think that's when then put the brick and mortar street address - no po box and separate from your residential address clauses and teeth into things connected to getting and keeping an FFL...

I remember gun shows were many folks walking around with a for sale sign sticking out of a slung and shouldered rifle were in fact defacto dealers...

That and guys with tables selling guns but as a person to person individual sale not through the auspices of an ffl...

That and back of the building out of the trunk sales done with often no paperwork...

Believe it or not it was a big problem amongst a certain set of serving or retired Law enforcement officers - still is in some rural areas.

Think of the curbside city car brokers - who never had license or insurance or official business address - guys selling more than 5 cars a year but skating on permits and taxes and fees.

Mike

wcf4440

A long time ago like in decades they did not FFL dealers to sell at shows. I can not recall when that changed but it was a ways back/

hoosier

New Ruling taking affect 8/24/2022

Is Changing the Wording to "to predominantly earn a profit"

Term "to predominantly earn a profit means the intent to underling the sale or distribution of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining pecuniary gain".

As apposed to other intents such as improving or liquidation a personal firearms collection.