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Two Dead Buffalo

mateomasfeomateomasfeo Member Posts: 27,143
edited February 2004 in General Discussion
The guy who owns the shooting range I frequent also processes and does taxidermy.

As I was ready to leave a trailer pulled up carrying 2 freshly killed buffalo. They were estimated at 900 pounds each and were still warm to the touch. They were truely magnificent beasts...this morning.

Thing is, I couldn't respect the rich boys that were hauling them in. Guy said they were cheap. He only paid $500.00 each for them. It was a controlled hunt on a game ranch near me in Texas.

Does anyone else hate this kind of "hunting" for trophys. I find it obscene. I am all for hunting, but this ain't hunting.



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Mateomasfeo

"I am what I am!" - Popeye
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  • robomanroboman Member Posts: 6,436
    edited November -1
    It's a business of murder. Hunting itself is fine and dandy, but this is not.
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    "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long..."
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  • chorkiechorkie Member Posts: 2,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is almost as bad as the "lion hunters" that were on the board recently. I have no respect for this stuff.
    Chorkie

    ???
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm sorry, why isn't this hunting? Is it because these guys are rich? Is it because it was a controlled hunt? Was Ruark a hunter? Hemmingway? Boddington? Or are only middle class meat hunters worthy of the name? Should democrats be issued CCWs?
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  • CS8161CS8161 Member Posts: 13,596 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hunting to eat is as old as man, hunting to hang a head on your wall, to me, is a travesty. I could understand if they went after the bison with a spear or a knife, but there is just no challenge in standing off a few hundred yards and capping a bison while its grazing. You might as well go shoot a domestic cow!

    Chris8161
    Admit nothing, deny everything, demand proof!
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And this is different from stand hunting how? And who said these were trophies only? Come to think of it, what details of the hunt were given here? And what does their financial status have to do with it?
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  • CS8161CS8161 Member Posts: 13,596 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Where is the sport, where is the challenge in shooting a bison? They stand there chewing their cud, and then you blast them! Wow, thats pretty rough! If they are going to eat the meat then I have no problem with it, but just to kill for the sake of killing turns me off.

    Chris8161
    Admit nothing, deny everything, demand proof!
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Chris8161

    They stand there chewing their cud, and then you blast them! Wow, thats pretty rough!

    Again, this is different from stand hunting how? And again, who said these were trophy hunters only? Doesn't the taxidermist also process meat? And what if the meat was donated to a needy family? My point is not to argue for controlled, trophy hunts (I think they suck); the point is that the manner and detail with which this anecdote was trafficked seems a little one-sided.
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  • mateomasfeomateomasfeo Member Posts: 27,143
    edited November -1
    quote:the point is that the manner and detail with which this anecdote was trafficked seems a little one-sided.

    I am but one man, and that is my opinion. One sided? I assure you it is!

    More details:

    Guys were processing the meat to eat

    They were mounting the heads. One guy said,"I don't know where I'm going to put it, I already have 22 heads in my study."

    They were using the skins.

    One guy said, "We are rich, you middle class guys suck." (just kiddin on that part)[:D]

    Make what you want out of it. That is why I posted it on a public forum. I am telling you the way it made me feel. That is all.

    I appreciate all feedback. Otherwise I would write my thoughts down and email them to myself.


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    Mateomasfeo

    "I am what I am!" - Popeye
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  • bigdaddyjuniorbigdaddyjunior Member Posts: 11,233
    edited November -1
    At $500 for a 900lb. young buffalo I'd take the shot and skip the cost of the taxidermy which could easily get into the thousands of dollars.I wouldn't care if they painted a dayglo target on it and chained one leg to a post. I'd shoot it in a country second. Just throw the thing in my truck and I'll take it from there. Always wanted a buffalo hide coat and could fill all three freezers with meat, tongue, livers...yum yum. Better than paying 7-8 bucks a pound for madcow steaks at the grocery store and freezing my butt off in winter cause I can't afford a decent coat.

    040103cowboy_shooting_one_gun_md_clr_prv.gifBig Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
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  • bigdaddyjuniorbigdaddyjunior Member Posts: 11,233
    edited November -1
    DWS, maybe them buffs was gettin' ready to run off some cows or do vicious things to other critters?

    040103cowboy_shooting_one_gun_md_clr_prv.gifBig Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
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  • outdoortexasoutdoortexas Member Posts: 4,780
    edited November -1
    Originally posted by mateomasfeo

    I appreciate all feedback. Otherwise I would write my thoughts down and email them to myself.


    [:D][:D][:D]
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The additional facts are certainly germaine to having any opinion. Basically, you are simply opposed to controlled hunts, irrespective of the uses of the kill. Had they been shooting deer in open range and everything else the same, you would have no problem except for the one hunter wealthy enough to have a study capable of accommodating 22 heads. I do think that is an inordinate number of bathrooms by the way, even for a rich guy.
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  • jjmitchell60jjmitchell60 Member Posts: 3,887
    edited November -1
    The Black Powder club that I am Treasure of has a sponcer who gives us a 1500+ pound buffalo bull each year for someone to shoot with a BP rifle. The kick is you have to camp, dress in 1700s clothing, and shoot it with a true traditional flintlock BP if your name is drawn. Once you shoot it you have to skin it and work it up the way they did in the 1700s. Trust me the skinning and working up the meat is work. 2 years ago the bull actually was close to 2000 pounds and the one drawn shot it with a 75 cal British Brown Bess. We are in a 100 acre enclosed area, the watering hole is where you want to set up to wait for the bull but do you relize what one shot does to a bull buffalo with a BP rifle? It usually ticks him off! 2 years ago it took 2 shots to bring him down and we take no modern guns on the shoot with us! We each do carry a flinter and some of us do carry flinter pistols. M9ost of us use smooth bore flinters as well. Ours is a bit more sporting but after seeing the firsthunt, I do not even put my name in the hat. I do go along to be a backup in case we need to shoot the bull more than once! Penned hunts are not hunts but just a way of sying I shot something! There is a place in Adams Co. Ohio that sells pen hunts for anything including big cats!

    BDJ, if you want a green buffalo hide to tan let me know. The place we do the drawn buffalo hunt is a buffalo farm and resturant. He has green hides all the time and the last time I checked he would let us have them for $25$50, I called my buddy tonight and he told me the price had risen due to some extra costs at the buffalo farm. Shipping would be about $50 though! Also anyone else that wants a green hide for that let me know because the man has a herd of 300+ for slaughter and breeding!

    The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you.
    Rita Mae Brown
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  • wipalawipala Member Posts: 11,067
    edited November -1
    DWS I liken this kind of hunting to walking into your back yard and shooting pets. Most of these wild animals have been raised by and have no fear of humans.
    Last year this forum was outraged by the auctioning off (on another site) of the right to hunt and kill a specific Moose. The rack on this animal was massive as you could see in the photos that showed it in a pen being hand fed. These kind of Sportsmen turn my stomach. They want bragging rights to say they shot this trophy without earning the right.
    That all said and done if I could buy 900 lbs of Buffalo meat (really only about 400 after processing have a skull and hide for 500.o00 I would in a heartbeat. But I wouldn't say I was a mighty hunter I would say I made a good deal on some good meat and leave it at that. Then again I once worked in a slaughterhouse and hammering cattle in the skull desensitizes you to these things.
    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: And he that hath no sword,let him sell his garment, and buy one
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  • bigdaddyjuniorbigdaddyjunior Member Posts: 11,233
    edited November -1
    I'll go $75 and some hard work to get a good coat. Let me know when you are heading that way. Thanks Jim.

    040103cowboy_shooting_one_gun_md_clr_prv.gifBig Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
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  • jjmitchell60jjmitchell60 Member Posts: 3,887
    edited November -1
    BDJ, I sent you e-mail.

    The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you.
    Rita Mae Brown
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    wipala: You'll get no argument from me. My point was not to defend penned hunting; my point was that the most ugly Matt was not simply asking for an opinion on such practice, but rather attempting to manipulate that opinion by omitting certain facts and including other, irrelevant ones. If he had said, "What do you all think of trophy hunters shooting penned game?", at least that would have been an honest solicitation. But the manner in which the details of this episode were first presented and then later extracted was not so straightforward. The fact that these "hunters" were rich should have nothing to do with that opinion, one way or another; but the fact that they also had use for the meat and hides certainly does, at least to some degree, and this information was not presented when the question was originally asked. Fact is, we still don't know the actual circumstances of the hunt itself (a "game ranch" can mean a lot of things), other than that they were rich guys with a lot of crap on their walls.
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  • WagionWagion Member Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What they realy did was buy to buffalo and instead of taking them to the butcher to slaughter they shot them in the pen then took them to get pocessed. Wonder if they loaded them on the trailer before they shot them so it would be easier?[:(!][}:)][V][:(!][}:)][V][:(!]

    If force ain't work'n... Your not use'n nough of it.
    I know the spelling is bad but guess what I DON'T CARE
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Wagion
    What they realy did was buy to buffalo and instead of taking them to the butcher to slaughter they shot them in the pen then took them to get pocessed. Wonder if they loaded them on the trailer before they shot them so it would be easier?

    I prefer this scenario: They hunted on a 3500 acre ranch, just like the old buffalo hunters; they got as close as they could without spooking the herd, then took their shots. Instead of loading their kills on birch pole carriers, they put them on ATV trailers attached to their Escalades, then drove off to the taxidermist.

    Any manner of shooting bison would not be that much different; they are not by nature crafty and shy like coyotes or deer or cougar, else they would not have gone nearly extinct. No matter. Fact is, the details of how these buffalo were taken, with what type of weapon and at what range would be nothing more than surmise on all our parts.
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  • sodbustersodbuster Member Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No,,(IMHO) it is not hunting, it is harvesting.
    All herds need culling every now and again. I'm sure the rancher uses these funds from the psudo hunt to maintain the rest of his herd.
    It seems silly to me to pose for pictures next to the 'big kill'. This 'harvesting' needs to be done, just not by me.

    As far as bringing in caged 'wild game' to be killed by hunters,, this practice should be unlawful.
    I just watched a movie a few days back that poked fun of this 'sport'.

    ,,,sod

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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    sod: So was the term Buffalo Hunter a misnomer? Should it have been Buffalo Harvester?
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  • sodbustersodbuster Member Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
    sod: So was the term Buffalo Hunter a misnomer? Should it have been Buffalo Harvester?


    It probably depends,,,
    The Native Americans in my opinion were Buffalo Hunters.
    Those that stuck their 45/70's out of the train window (or 416R's out of the Hummer window) are just harvesters.[;)]


    ,,,,sod

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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by sodbuster

    It probably depends,,,
    The Native Americans in my opinion were Buffalo Hunters.
    Those that stuck their 45/70's out of the train window (or 416R's out of the Hummer window) are just harvesters.[;)]

    Interesting. I would call indians Buffalo Chasers; riding alongside a trotting bison and shooting them with a bow from three feet above says more about their horsemanship than hunting prowess. Interesting, too, is that grouse hunters in England used to shoot their birds from open motorcars. Perhaps they would have been better named Grouse Harvesters.
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  • sodbustersodbuster Member Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote: Interesting, too, is that grouse hunters in England used to shoot their birds from open motorcars. Perhaps they would have been better named Grouse Harvesters.
    In order to harvest grouse, (with a firearm), while riding in a noisy motorcar, one would need the skill of a good hunter[;)].
    So thats where they got "ChittyChittyBangBang",,,
    The first 'drive by' shootings???

    quote:Interesting. I would call indians Buffalo Chasers; riding alongside a trotting bison and shooting them with a bow from three feet above says more about their horsemanship than hunting prowess.
    Yup,,,their great horsemanship helped them become great hunters![^]

    ,,,[:)]sod





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  • mateomasfeomateomasfeo Member Posts: 27,143
    edited November -1
    quote:My point was not to defend penned hunting; my point was that the most ugly Matt was not simply asking for an opinion on such practice, but rather attempting to manipulate that opinion by omitting certain facts and including other, irrelevant ones.

    Wow, DWS! You give me a lot more credit than I deserve...

    OXOX
    Mateo the Manipulator



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    Mateomasfeo

    "I am what I am!" - Popeye
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo

    You give me a lot more credit than I deserve...

    It is not meant to be to your credit. There is a difference between trafficking anecdotes for purpose of providing information and trafficking anecdotes for purpose of manipulating sentiment. Frankly, I don't care which one tickles your fancy; but it is important to me to know which one I am being presented. Read the last sentence of your original post; that really is the total purpose of you creating the thread. The rest is a self-serving characterization of the event to garner reader agreement with your point of view. You [}:)], you.
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  • MillerMiller Member Posts: 175 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Umm, yumm, yumm! You ever had a buffalo burger? I've had one and I'll shoot a buffalo anytime any place to get another one. Caged or not caged I want one of those buffalo burgers again. It was the best burger I ever had.
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Miller: How about some buffalo chips to go with that buffalo burger?
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  • H.S. 10-XH.S. 10-X Member Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would shoot them if I thought $1000 for all of that buffalo meat was a good deal. I'm not sure what buffalo meat goes for by the pound. I mean if some guy said "I'll let you shoot two of my cows for $100". I'd do it. I don't see the difference in this case. Shooting something just for sport if you don't plan on eating it is a different matter. Like the lion video that was posted earlier.

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    "If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas
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  • rmeyerrmeyer Member Posts: 566 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I saw an auction on here where a guy in Texas was selling buffalo. You had to shoot them in the pen and he made it clear it wasn't a hunt. It was basically shoot it and process the meat. Might be the same guy. No different then raising a hog to have butchered. Now if those 2 bozos want to mount the head to tell BS stories about a magnificent hunt who cares as long the meat is eaten and not wasted.
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  • schotzi1schotzi1 Member Posts: 307 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DISGUSTING & UNSPORTING TOO. Hell, any moron can do that. kinda takes the "hunt" outa HUNTING![xx(]

    quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
    I'm sorry, why isn't this hunting? Is it because these guys are rich? Is it because it was a controlled hunt? Was Ruark a hunter? Hemmingway? Boddington? Or are only middle class meat hunters worthy of the name? Should democrats be issued CCWs?

    Don't get me started on Democrats.....No they shouldn't have CCW's....NOR should they be allowed to vote.[:D] JUST kidding DEMS don't get angry.....That is what makes us great, we need different views.[^]

    Be responsible
    Be intelligent
    Be REPUBLICAN
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  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are two different Buffalo hunts here in Arizona. Both of these hunts are used to keep Buffalo numbers under control. One of them is a "fake" hunt where a Game and Fish officer takes you out in a truck, (the same truck they drop food out of in the winter) pulls up to a group of Buffalo, points one out and says shoot it. The other hunt is real, Im told they dont just stand around but stampede off at the first sign of danger. It is one of only two hunts in Arizona with a warning that the hunter should be in top physical condition to apply for this hunt. The other hunt is for Desert Bighorn sheep. Ive never been to that area but it must be very rugged terrain. By the way the total number of permits available for Arizona buffalo are very limited, something like 15 or less for the state.
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  • mateomasfeomateomasfeo Member Posts: 27,143
    edited November -1
    quote:The rest is a self-serving characterization of the event to garner reader agreement with your point of view.

    http://webpages.charter.net/mateomasfeo/Hobby/bearit.wav

    Is this all you've got? C'mon sheep dip, you are the king AND queen of self serving...

    Yes I stated an opinion, as an opinion it is centered on self.

    So what? If I was out for agreement I would ask my 4 year old (who by the way might even make a valid point rather than attempt to sway sentiment with semantic arguments designed to add nothing but intellectual smoke and mirrors.)

    Having been dragged into the sheep dip, I will extricate myself and give my self serving, manipulative opinion having read these posts.

    I still feel bad about what I saw. The meat argument has weight and I guess we all kill cows indirectly everyday, etc...

    They also had a few deer. I didn't feel bad about those animals. Perhaps I was swayed by the unusual sight of these magnificent beasts. I have an emotional conflict on this issue. That's why I posted. Not to find solice in people agreeing with my thoughts. I am a bigger boy than that.

    I feel glad I received some constructive input. Thanks!


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    Mateomasfeo

    "I am what I am!" - Popeye
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  • ndbillyndbilly Member Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'd be OK with this type of hunting/harvesting if the'd only switch to lethal injection. Can't you see 2000 pounds of bull bison strapped to the gurney and grunting the bison equivalent of, "Let's do it."?
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  • cowdoccowdoc Member Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    the tribe here does this with their buffalo herd a few miles from me to keep the numbers in check not to provide a hunt. i could go pay them a few hundered dollars and shoot one..the people i know who are doing this are getting one to put in freezer to eat, and you have to go out and shoot one because there is no butcher shop around here that is going to let you bring in a live buffalo into their place and tear all thier equipment all to crap......buffalo are not free range animals any more they are raised in pastures so dont know how else you would get one but by going out in the pasture and shooting one,
    Five hundered dollars is cheap i would charge a lot more for a steer that is ready to eat and i couldnt give a sheet if you drive out and shoot it yourself or haul it to locker plant and have them kill it for you [:D]

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  • SawzSawz Member Posts: 6,049
    edited November -1
    I have actually been looking for someone near me who has bison for sell, this winter. The meat has half the choleseterol as beef. Money comes out to about a buck a pound if you find the right place not counting cutting and wrapping ,tastes very good. As far as the hunt goes not much of a hunt. Not much different from when the buff hunters of old set up and shot a whole herd from one knoll. But then I wasnt looking for a hunting experiance from it anyway, anybody can see it isnt much of a hunt. Some places have turned them loose on bigger reserves , but still, like days of old. Whats even stranger to me is people who attack a meat hunt as if it was a safari. anybody can see it for what it is why dress down an apple for not being an orange .If you want excitment on a hunt go leopard hunting I hear they hunt back. the plus is I would be able to get a hide tanned you dont get a chance to have very often or even a buff skull done european style would make a nice decoration for a room done in that decor ... take a chill pill let people live there lives without someone trying to ram a broom handle up their rear

    "Respect your Tools"
    "Freedom is not Free"
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  • babybearbabybear Member Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I much prefer hand to hand combat with a full grown ohio groundhog to still hunting from the fields edge. Of course, I even the odds by carrying a 5" blade....my bad.... [:D][}:)]...B.B
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  • bigdaddyjuniorbigdaddyjunior Member Posts: 11,233
    edited November -1
    Yep, they're just big ol' nine hundred pound groundhogs that you can eat. I understand the need for the rich to eat, it is their penchant for claiming non-odiferous defication that perplexes me. Can they really achieve this? Now that would be something to brag about!

    040103cowboy_shooting_one_gun_md_clr_prv.gifBig Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bigdaddyjunior
    I understand the need for the rich to eat, it is their penchant for claiming non-odiferous defication that perplexes me.

    I don't believe this is a function of wealth or social status. I have found that Citori owners all suffer the same delusion.[:0]
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  • bigdaddyjuniorbigdaddyjunior Member Posts: 11,233
    edited November -1
    Not true! We don't deficate, we regurgitate!!

    040103cowboy_shooting_one_gun_md_clr_prv.gifBig Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
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