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First, so you know that I am not a biggot I grew up and live 6 miles from a reservation and have actively worked with and for the tribe. I have also had many friends there including one of my best friends who is slowly dieing of agent orange, parasites, and wounds from Vietnam - the toughest man I ever met. I asked my close friend one time where I could learn more about traditional ways of his people and his response was peotic, tragically poetic: "No where. All our traditions were orally preserved until small pox came and killed the keepers of the medicine bundles and our oral history. Those that think they have it now are full of sh!*. They are making it up as they go and a lot of it is hollywood."
1. There are good and bad Indians.
2. There are lazy Indians and those that work hard.
3. There are drunk Indians and sober Indians.
4. There are Indians who care for and treasure family and those that are dead beat Dads and Pi$$ poor Mom's.
5. There are educated Indians and ignorant Indians.
6. There are crooked politicians and honest people living on the Reservation that are all Indians.
But the one thing you will find is that there are no rich Indians. Poverty is a reservation.
Our governments policy was to make them dependant upon the "white man" and boy did they do a great job on that policy! Now Hollywood has told us all what an Indian is much the same way Disney made Bambi and told us what is a deer. That is why I love the movie Dances with WOlves and HATE that movie. It is entertainment, but now uniformed people (including Indians)take that movie to be some kind of documentary filled with the true character of what an Indian really is. BS BS BS
They do get social handouts and special deals on health care and such the same way most other segments of our society in a state of welfare receive. They just get it handed out under a different name: Bureau of Indian Affairs and Indian Health Services. I would not want their "handouts" cause what it is is just enough to quell the need and desire to get ahead and perpetuate the welfare state they live in.
The only way to end the "hand outs" or assistance that they receive (from no taxes, to special programs) is to get rid of the imaginary line around the reservations and make them part of the United States.
Will not happen. Why? Because we all have the Hollywood Indian in our heads as to what they are. Frankly they are people just like everyone else -- some good some bad.
Until they have a polictical system other than their current system where the spoils go to the winner and his family until the next election, separation of powers, and fiscal responsibility, they will NEVER make it out of the releam where they are dependent upon the tax payors of this country. I truely believe that the majority of Indians would be glade if their life was such that they did not have to receive a dang thing from the US government and its taxpayors.
There is more, but I have said enough except to end with this: No one living did an dang thing to the Indians living. It is history - an ugly black mark on America's soul, but it is history. Time to move into the present and prepare for the future and not let history's mistakes repeat.
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I
advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives
boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the
ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no
character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of
your walks." Thomas Jefferson
Plains scout is right. I have a few friends that are indian and there people live in new mexico. A nicer bunch of people I have never met. If you are there friend you have a friend for life. But with the good you have the bad its the same in all races.
col elect1mike Illinois
volinters RRG
I am a man but I can change if I have to,I guess.
I actually sympathize with the Native Americans. All we did was take away their land and way of life. And their way of life, I realize that one really cannot generalize about the "Indian way of life because the tribes had vastly different ways, had much about it that is appealing, and much that is not. Indians could be brutal, cruel, and less than honest.
What I was trying to do with my post was to take the myth out of our romantic view of the NA's. We conquered them, that is what people of old, and to a lesser extent now, did. I object to the moral high ground people allow the Indians when they were doing the same to each other that we did to them. We owe them no more than the Souix owe the Sheshone (sp) when the Souix drove them off the plains.
As to the treaty problem, the problem was that the U.S. government had no model with which to treat the Indians as a group. The government, unfortunantly choose to use treaties. When the U.S. signed treaties the indians were required to do certain things, one of which was to control tribal members. Most tribes had no way of doing this, no way to coerce members to comply. Therfore the indian leaders knew that they were lying just by signing a treaty. Red Cloud knew well he could not keep the terms he signed to, but he signed anyway.
Indians did not leave the res. just because of want. True, often the suplies promised did not get to the res or were poor quality. It is also true that indians would go on raiding parties and then flee to the res to avoid being killed or captured. Also true that indians were raped etc. However, the indians would also attack isolated ranches and farms on the plains and their treatment of the settlers was ghastly. Brave indians, 30 or so well armed braves attacking a single family unit with no warning.
As to the Black Hills, the Souix had not been in that area for centuries, but less than 50 years. The ancient ancestral home was not that old. The Souix moved on to the plains after the Spanish and French had been trading there. The Souix had to get the horse before dominating the plains. Before that they were farmers on the eastern side of the Mississippi. Their ancient traditions were pottery making and corn farming, hardly the tale one would get today.
quote:imposed upon ???? I don't see a darn thing that makes them stay other than the bucks they get from the feds every month
The reservation and welfare systems created by the white man have created utter dependency. Telling someone who was born and raised on the reservation to just "get up and leave and go where the work is" is like going down to Honduras and telling those destitute uneducated primitive mountain-dwellers to get up out of their state of poverty and start applying for U.S. citizenship.
The tremendous amount of racism and lack of mobility has made it near impossible for the typical Native American on the reservations where I work. When I find one that meets all enlistment standards I bust my tail to get them in the Army(run all necessary waivers, transport to and from the reservation for processing, pay for meals when processing takes more than a few hours etc....). The average Native American reservation-dweller in my area is a hell of a lot more patriotic and dedicated to the principles which made us free than the average spoiled white kid. They're a hell of a lot more propensed to enlist and serve their country as well. I sat down and did the math a few months ago. I'd say that roughly 5% of all high school graduates from our local tribes are qualified to enlist but Native Americans comprise roughly 15% of the enlistments that I produce. I live and work in the rural midwest. Roughly 50% of the contracts I produce are comprised of non-caucasian races/ethnicities. Spoiled white kids hanging on their momma's teat until they are 25 are a waste of my time.
My ancestors did not come to this country until the 1930's, they didn't rape, kill, or maim any indians.
Mark, why would anyone on a reservation need a form 4? A reservation is not under US Federal Law and thus not subject to US Code restricting any ownership to firearms.
The Indian Reservations get free military pickup trucks and cars if the wish. The military also sends it's civil engineers to build houses for them for some reason. From what I'm told each Indian receives free money from the government and the amounts people have talked about range from $10,000 a year to $15,000 a year.
quote: My ancestors did not come to this country until the 1930's, they didn't rape, kill, or maim any indians.
My ancestors didn't come here until the early 1900's either. However, they came here wanting to become AMERIANS. America agreed to certain things. Want to be a part of the club? Then you have to pay the membership dues which include payments to a group of individuals that we had previously bent over pretty hard. Don't want to share that burden? Don't join the club.
They may not have done any of the raping or pillaging but they definitely benefited from certain things that had previously been done to the Native American prior to their arrival.
Big Stick--I agree. However, some have to overcome many more obstacles in order to enjoy the same opportunities that are born with a smooth paved road before them.
Well with those beliefs IDS you likely agree we should pay all African Americans money for life for the hardships their ancestors endured also?
I don't support reparations for any race this country oppressed or defeated, it is as unconstitutional then as it is today to not give equality to all.
Wow ,what a hotbed of emotion.......So,yes the indians all fought each other (or most did) before we got here.They fought even more however after ...it is comman sense people,as we displaced them,they had to go somewhere,usually within another tribes area...the result war...as for the black hills ,what matter how long they ahd been there?That was not the point.The point was the gov't gave them to the natives and then took em back when it suited their purpose.I do not believ anyone here can speak objectivly for Red Cloud or any of the rest,red or white.Truth is we don't know what we would have signed or not if we felt our peoples survival depended on it.
Fact is many of us sign documents each year that we do not believe in...IRS forms etc......to save ourselves more than anything...
I do not believe that the Government is still handing 15,000. per tribe member as a handout.Please provide something other than I heard...Many tribes are paying out to its members...and some give land etc.Sometimes these payouts are the result of a court action where the Judicial system has ruled in favor of the tribes.As far as welfare etc...we all have that ..um...right,the rest is MINORITY status as I understand it.Wanna take it from them?Then take it from all...Including the Monies given to our own wives etc. when they wish to start up a business...Blacks,hispanics,pakastanis...whoever...I agree here the MINORITY thing should stop........
Red223: Before you keep rambling without a clue let me clear things up for you. I have lived on the reservation for the majority of my 40 years. I am waiting for this big check you are talking about. Where is the funding to the United Tribes college in Bismarck ND? Stealing cars and you can not touch me? Ridiculous. You have to go through the tribal court to repossess a vehicle but grand theft is a felony and felonies don't give a rats rump where you live. I have noticed whites still get a way with murder on the reservation. Besides having my own relatives die by the Hands of whites with no charges, I have known of two others who killed Natives in cold blood. One was not charged until he was bragging about and telling several different versions (2 years sentance). Another shot his mother in law 5 times as she ran out of the house (they were going to let him out after 2 years but the family protested so he had to serve the full 5). At work a white man molested his 2 step daughters (Natives age 11 & 13) found guilty and gave him the girls back with probation. A native in the same town was found guilty of same charges while have consensual sex with his 15 year old step daughter and has been serving his sentance for about 7 years now. My cousin in Texas beat a guy badly in a bar fight and has been in prison for over 5 years (and still counting. Racial profiling? I had a cop do about 100mph after me (I was doing the speed limit) when I came back from a Indian celebration. Why did he stop me? He said he thought I was maybe going to cross the center line. Being as I did not drink and had broke no laws he grudgingly had to let me go.
There is a Treaty called the Fort Laramie Treaty that is still on the books and it has health care written into it. It did not stop them from flooding our prime lands when ther was only 6 Natives on welfare. We went to 95% on welfare after that. It did not stop them from allowing homesteaders to take the rest of the prime reservation land either. It did not stop the current homesteading that is still occuring at a bay 5 miles from my house.
The idea that every Native gets stuff by 1/16 is a joke also. Our reservation requires 1/4 blood degree to be enrolled and 1/8 of that to be Mandan/Hidatsa/Arikara. My friend is 1/4 and enrolled but has 1/16 Chippawa blood. His wife is 1/4 and a enrolled Sioux member but has 1/16 Chippawa blood as well. Their kids get no assistance and can not be enrolled despite being 1/4 each.
My cousins had to pay for their college as well because their parents income were above the finance requirements. Their parents are ranchers and live in a 80 year old house and drove the same new truck for over 20 years.
That Indian casinos are making Native people rich is a joke. The only tribes that are making big bucks are the very, very small tribes located by big cities. The vast majority of Indian casinos make very little over their overhead.
Another thing is the generalization of tribes. Tribes and their cultures are as different as european cultures. Tribes spoke different languages, had different physical structures and cultures. My ancesters were the Mandans who took in Lewis & Clark during the winter. They never raided anyone but met the smallpox extermination just the same.
Native Americans were not conquered. They were slaughtered to the brink of elimination just as the jews were in Germany. 97% of Native Americans were killed by the US goverment. Mostly while under the protection of treaties. It was not a war it was genocide. These equal battles you refer to are evident. The battle of the Killdeer Mountians just 25 miles from me states proudly "2000 calvary killed a band of 6 Indians at this site". Pretty even odds. Maybe if there had been two more indians the outcome would have been different.
If you want Indians off of tax money. Simply wite your congressman and ask them to honor the treaties that are still in place. The treaties are signed by the same US congress that writes the constitution. If you value you 2nd amendment with all your might, why not the treaties? Same papers and same pens too me.
But that is just my opinion. A lowly Native American that has never been within a 1000 miles of the Kennewick man you claim owns my land first. P.S. I have paid $60,000 in social security tax alone with my employer matching me. Have not seen a dime of the $120,000 thus far and probably never will. When is the goverment going to own up to supporting me like you stated, or did you still all my free stuff because my Idian police can not do a dang thing if you steal my car and take it off of the reservation. Sorry if I am a burden on your tax dollars.
It is a complicated issue.
I was just reading an old issue of Muzzleloader magazine about the Erie Indians.
You never heard of 'em? Neither did I. That is because the tribe was wiped out by other Indians.
In 1600 the Erie were a powerful tribe who ruled the northern half of Ohio.
"After a war of annihilation between the Erie Nation of northern Ohio and the growing Iroquois League of New York, the last of the fortified Erie villages were systematically hunted down. Between roughly 1635 and 1660 the last of the Erie warriors were killed or made into slaves, and the women were taken off to Seneca towns in New York. It was decided that Ohio would have no permanent Indian villages. Instead it would be crisscrossed by war trails and hunting trails for Indians from various nations."*
Hell that is worse than what we did to the Cherokee here in North Carolina. At least we let the survivors move to Oklahoma as we stole their lands.
It is a complicated issue. I feel sorry for the Indians, because the big difference in being conquered by the whites is that the whites destroyed an entire way of life.
Solemn documents were signed by indians and white government. The documents laid out terms of a bond between the two parties that was never to be broken.
The end result, good or bad, is not the issue here. The issue is the promise. Treaty documents are a one-time agreement not subject to review at the whim of one party or the other. No such promises were ever given to ex-slaves.
If the agreement bound white government to a soveriegn nation within, then so be it. If white government was bound to supply two blankets and a side of beef to each member of the indian community on an annual basis, then that's exactly what should be supplied.
Unless the treaty gave the state powers within the nation, then the state has no business there. That our indian neighbors have finally turned the terms of the treaty to their advantage... Too bad our government wasn't smarter 200 years ago. That our indian neighbors now enjoy tax breaks that the rest of us can only dream of... Read the treaties. We gave our word!
Allen, from the history I have read the only case of a Native American tribe slaughtering a full band of another tribe was in South Dakota at Crow or Cherry Creek. A band of Sioux wiped out a band of 600 Arikaras. That was just one band and not a whole tribe.
I am not saying you are wrong, but just stating my info differs from yours. Does this Erie tribe consist of the Wyandotts? I know they were wiped out in Ohio also.
My book says that the Wyandot moved into the Ohio land in the 1750's, and they "came south from around the Great Lakes". So the Wyandot came into Ohio a century after the annihilation of the Erie.
This magazine article does not get into the fate of the Wyandot.
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
My book says that the Wyandot moved into the Ohio land in the 1750's, and they "came south from around the Great Lakes". So the Wyandot came into Ohio a century after the annihilation of the Erie.
This magazine article does not get into the fate of the Wyandot.
Lets not forget that by this time there were MANY French and English allready argueing/fighting over the Indian Trade....And the IROQUOIS were alighned with Whom?......At any rate...you r saying that because they fought among themselves that it is ok for us to come in and take over?
Red--I don't believe in reparations for African Americans and I don't have to be a hypocrite to feel that way. Look at Africa today. Slavery was wrong but that institution was the vehicle that allowed them to be lifted out of a continent like Africa to a better way of life. African Americans today are better off had they not been brought to America. Then again, America didn't purpetrate mass genocide on the African Americans' ancestors either. They weren't purposely infected with disease (aside from the STD experiments that were performed on a small scale compared to the Trail of Tears).
I don't believe the "plight" of the African American can hold a candle to the atrocities committed against the Native American.
Hear and understand alot of what you are saying. Worst violent crime I know of is on reservations with little done. My observation:
1. A court system controled by the elected officials (no separation of powers so totally dependent upon Tribal Business Council for its existence and can be over ruled by the Tribal Council on any decision) -- makes for a Court with no well you know what;
2. Political favoritism. Pure and simple. Who is boss hog this term? We know it does not matter who is on the council his relatives and girl friend will get the best jobs and old administration will get their appointees fired.
3. Ignorance, jealousy, and bigitory - both sides of the res line.
4. Worst of all? Damning the Missouri and taking the heart and soul out of the western part of the state.
I can not agree on every point, but a number of them I would say we see eye to eye.
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I
advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives
boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the
ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no
character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of
your walks." Thomas Jefferson
Comments
First, so you know that I am not a biggot I grew up and live 6 miles from a reservation and have actively worked with and for the tribe. I have also had many friends there including one of my best friends who is slowly dieing of agent orange, parasites, and wounds from Vietnam - the toughest man I ever met. I asked my close friend one time where I could learn more about traditional ways of his people and his response was peotic, tragically poetic: "No where. All our traditions were orally preserved until small pox came and killed the keepers of the medicine bundles and our oral history. Those that think they have it now are full of sh!*. They are making it up as they go and a lot of it is hollywood."
1. There are good and bad Indians.
2. There are lazy Indians and those that work hard.
3. There are drunk Indians and sober Indians.
4. There are Indians who care for and treasure family and those that are dead beat Dads and Pi$$ poor Mom's.
5. There are educated Indians and ignorant Indians.
6. There are crooked politicians and honest people living on the Reservation that are all Indians.
But the one thing you will find is that there are no rich Indians. Poverty is a reservation.
Our governments policy was to make them dependant upon the "white man" and boy did they do a great job on that policy! Now Hollywood has told us all what an Indian is much the same way Disney made Bambi and told us what is a deer. That is why I love the movie Dances with WOlves and HATE that movie. It is entertainment, but now uniformed people (including Indians)take that movie to be some kind of documentary filled with the true character of what an Indian really is. BS BS BS
They do get social handouts and special deals on health care and such the same way most other segments of our society in a state of welfare receive. They just get it handed out under a different name: Bureau of Indian Affairs and Indian Health Services. I would not want their "handouts" cause what it is is just enough to quell the need and desire to get ahead and perpetuate the welfare state they live in.
The only way to end the "hand outs" or assistance that they receive (from no taxes, to special programs) is to get rid of the imaginary line around the reservations and make them part of the United States.
Will not happen. Why? Because we all have the Hollywood Indian in our heads as to what they are. Frankly they are people just like everyone else -- some good some bad.
Until they have a polictical system other than their current system where the spoils go to the winner and his family until the next election, separation of powers, and fiscal responsibility, they will NEVER make it out of the releam where they are dependent upon the tax payors of this country. I truely believe that the majority of Indians would be glade if their life was such that they did not have to receive a dang thing from the US government and its taxpayors.
There is more, but I have said enough except to end with this: No one living did an dang thing to the Indians living. It is history - an ugly black mark on America's soul, but it is history. Time to move into the present and prepare for the future and not let history's mistakes repeat.
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I
advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives
boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the
ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no
character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of
your walks." Thomas Jefferson
col elect1mike Illinois
volinters RRG
I am a man but I can change if I have to,I guess.
I actually sympathize with the Native Americans. All we did was take away their land and way of life. And their way of life, I realize that one really cannot generalize about the "Indian way of life because the tribes had vastly different ways, had much about it that is appealing, and much that is not. Indians could be brutal, cruel, and less than honest.
What I was trying to do with my post was to take the myth out of our romantic view of the NA's. We conquered them, that is what people of old, and to a lesser extent now, did. I object to the moral high ground people allow the Indians when they were doing the same to each other that we did to them. We owe them no more than the Souix owe the Sheshone (sp) when the Souix drove them off the plains.
As to the treaty problem, the problem was that the U.S. government had no model with which to treat the Indians as a group. The government, unfortunantly choose to use treaties. When the U.S. signed treaties the indians were required to do certain things, one of which was to control tribal members. Most tribes had no way of doing this, no way to coerce members to comply. Therfore the indian leaders knew that they were lying just by signing a treaty. Red Cloud knew well he could not keep the terms he signed to, but he signed anyway.
Indians did not leave the res. just because of want. True, often the suplies promised did not get to the res or were poor quality. It is also true that indians would go on raiding parties and then flee to the res to avoid being killed or captured. Also true that indians were raped etc. However, the indians would also attack isolated ranches and farms on the plains and their treatment of the settlers was ghastly. Brave indians, 30 or so well armed braves attacking a single family unit with no warning.
As to the Black Hills, the Souix had not been in that area for centuries, but less than 50 years. The ancient ancestral home was not that old. The Souix moved on to the plains after the Spanish and French had been trading there. The Souix had to get the horse before dominating the plains. Before that they were farmers on the eastern side of the Mississippi. Their ancient traditions were pottery making and corn farming, hardly the tale one would get today.
rcdis
The reservation and welfare systems created by the white man have created utter dependency. Telling someone who was born and raised on the reservation to just "get up and leave and go where the work is" is like going down to Honduras and telling those destitute uneducated primitive mountain-dwellers to get up out of their state of poverty and start applying for U.S. citizenship.
The tremendous amount of racism and lack of mobility has made it near impossible for the typical Native American on the reservations where I work. When I find one that meets all enlistment standards I bust my tail to get them in the Army(run all necessary waivers, transport to and from the reservation for processing, pay for meals when processing takes more than a few hours etc....). The average Native American reservation-dweller in my area is a hell of a lot more patriotic and dedicated to the principles which made us free than the average spoiled white kid. They're a hell of a lot more propensed to enlist and serve their country as well. I sat down and did the math a few months ago. I'd say that roughly 5% of all high school graduates from our local tribes are qualified to enlist but Native Americans comprise roughly 15% of the enlistments that I produce. I live and work in the rural midwest. Roughly 50% of the contracts I produce are comprised of non-caucasian races/ethnicities. Spoiled white kids hanging on their momma's teat until they are 25 are a waste of my time.
Mark, why would anyone on a reservation need a form 4? A reservation is not under US Federal Law and thus not subject to US Code restricting any ownership to firearms.
The Indian Reservations get free military pickup trucks and cars if the wish. The military also sends it's civil engineers to build houses for them for some reason. From what I'm told each Indian receives free money from the government and the amounts people have talked about range from $10,000 a year to $15,000 a year.
A tribal judge's ruling CAN (and can ONLY) be overturned by a Federal Judge. I've worked with the tribal court system a bit.
My ancestors didn't come here until the early 1900's either. However, they came here wanting to become AMERIANS. America agreed to certain things. Want to be a part of the club? Then you have to pay the membership dues which include payments to a group of individuals that we had previously bent over pretty hard. Don't want to share that burden? Don't join the club.
They may not have done any of the raping or pillaging but they definitely benefited from certain things that had previously been done to the Native American prior to their arrival.
Folks that wish to be industrious are and those that don't,simply are not/will not.
That regardless of race,creed or color.
Gumption overcomes all obstacles and the lack of,is readily apparent........................
A great percentage of folks with the paved opportunities,accomplish dick...........................
I don't support reparations for any race this country oppressed or defeated, it is as unconstitutional then as it is today to not give equality to all.
It needs to end.
Sure we stole their land, killed their people, cheated them to our advantage but that is the American way.
It is up to them to get over it if they want a future.
Thaks
Rockton
Fact is many of us sign documents each year that we do not believe in...IRS forms etc......to save ourselves more than anything...
I do not believe that the Government is still handing 15,000. per tribe member as a handout.Please provide something other than I heard...Many tribes are paying out to its members...and some give land etc.Sometimes these payouts are the result of a court action where the Judicial system has ruled in favor of the tribes.As far as welfare etc...we all have that ..um...right,the rest is MINORITY status as I understand it.Wanna take it from them?Then take it from all...Including the Monies given to our own wives etc. when they wish to start up a business...Blacks,hispanics,pakastanis...whoever...I agree here the MINORITY thing should stop........
There is a Treaty called the Fort Laramie Treaty that is still on the books and it has health care written into it. It did not stop them from flooding our prime lands when ther was only 6 Natives on welfare. We went to 95% on welfare after that. It did not stop them from allowing homesteaders to take the rest of the prime reservation land either. It did not stop the current homesteading that is still occuring at a bay 5 miles from my house.
The idea that every Native gets stuff by 1/16 is a joke also. Our reservation requires 1/4 blood degree to be enrolled and 1/8 of that to be Mandan/Hidatsa/Arikara. My friend is 1/4 and enrolled but has 1/16 Chippawa blood. His wife is 1/4 and a enrolled Sioux member but has 1/16 Chippawa blood as well. Their kids get no assistance and can not be enrolled despite being 1/4 each.
My cousins had to pay for their college as well because their parents income were above the finance requirements. Their parents are ranchers and live in a 80 year old house and drove the same new truck for over 20 years.
That Indian casinos are making Native people rich is a joke. The only tribes that are making big bucks are the very, very small tribes located by big cities. The vast majority of Indian casinos make very little over their overhead.
Another thing is the generalization of tribes. Tribes and their cultures are as different as european cultures. Tribes spoke different languages, had different physical structures and cultures. My ancesters were the Mandans who took in Lewis & Clark during the winter. They never raided anyone but met the smallpox extermination just the same.
Native Americans were not conquered. They were slaughtered to the brink of elimination just as the jews were in Germany. 97% of Native Americans were killed by the US goverment. Mostly while under the protection of treaties. It was not a war it was genocide. These equal battles you refer to are evident. The battle of the Killdeer Mountians just 25 miles from me states proudly "2000 calvary killed a band of 6 Indians at this site". Pretty even odds. Maybe if there had been two more indians the outcome would have been different.
If you want Indians off of tax money. Simply wite your congressman and ask them to honor the treaties that are still in place. The treaties are signed by the same US congress that writes the constitution. If you value you 2nd amendment with all your might, why not the treaties? Same papers and same pens too me.
But that is just my opinion. A lowly Native American that has never been within a 1000 miles of the Kennewick man you claim owns my land first. P.S. I have paid $60,000 in social security tax alone with my employer matching me. Have not seen a dime of the $120,000 thus far and probably never will. When is the goverment going to own up to supporting me like you stated, or did you still all my free stuff because my Idian police can not do a dang thing if you steal my car and take it off of the reservation. Sorry if I am a burden on your tax dollars.
Mad Dog
I was just reading an old issue of Muzzleloader magazine about the Erie Indians.
You never heard of 'em? Neither did I. That is because the tribe was wiped out by other Indians.
In 1600 the Erie were a powerful tribe who ruled the northern half of Ohio.
"After a war of annihilation between the Erie Nation of northern Ohio and the growing Iroquois League of New York, the last of the fortified Erie villages were systematically hunted down. Between roughly 1635 and 1660 the last of the Erie warriors were killed or made into slaves, and the women were taken off to Seneca towns in New York. It was decided that Ohio would have no permanent Indian villages. Instead it would be crisscrossed by war trails and hunting trails for Indians from various nations."*
Hell that is worse than what we did to the Cherokee here in North Carolina. At least we let the survivors move to Oklahoma as we stole their lands.
It is a complicated issue. I feel sorry for the Indians, because the big difference in being conquered by the whites is that the whites destroyed an entire way of life.
*Muzzleloader Sept Oct 2000
Solemn documents were signed by indians and white government. The documents laid out terms of a bond between the two parties that was never to be broken.
The end result, good or bad, is not the issue here. The issue is the promise. Treaty documents are a one-time agreement not subject to review at the whim of one party or the other. No such promises were ever given to ex-slaves.
If the agreement bound white government to a soveriegn nation within, then so be it. If white government was bound to supply two blankets and a side of beef to each member of the indian community on an annual basis, then that's exactly what should be supplied.
Unless the treaty gave the state powers within the nation, then the state has no business there. That our indian neighbors have finally turned the terms of the treaty to their advantage... Too bad our government wasn't smarter 200 years ago. That our indian neighbors now enjoy tax breaks that the rest of us can only dream of... Read the treaties. We gave our word!
Nord
I am not saying you are wrong, but just stating my info differs from yours. Does this Erie tribe consist of the Wyandotts? I know they were wiped out in Ohio also.
Mad Dog
This magazine article does not get into the fate of the Wyandot.
My book says that the Wyandot moved into the Ohio land in the 1750's, and they "came south from around the Great Lakes". So the Wyandot came into Ohio a century after the annihilation of the Erie.
This magazine article does not get into the fate of the Wyandot.
Lets not forget that by this time there were MANY French and English allready argueing/fighting over the Indian Trade....And the IROQUOIS were alighned with Whom?......At any rate...you r saying that because they fought among themselves that it is ok for us to come in and take over?
I don't believe the "plight" of the African American can hold a candle to the atrocities committed against the Native American.
Hear and understand alot of what you are saying. Worst violent crime I know of is on reservations with little done. My observation:
1. A court system controled by the elected officials (no separation of powers so totally dependent upon Tribal Business Council for its existence and can be over ruled by the Tribal Council on any decision) -- makes for a Court with no well you know what;
2. Political favoritism. Pure and simple. Who is boss hog this term? We know it does not matter who is on the council his relatives and girl friend will get the best jobs and old administration will get their appointees fired.
3. Ignorance, jealousy, and bigitory - both sides of the res line.
4. Worst of all? Damning the Missouri and taking the heart and soul out of the western part of the state.
I can not agree on every point, but a number of them I would say we see eye to eye.
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I
advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives
boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the
ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no
character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of
your walks." Thomas Jefferson