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quote:Originally posted by REBJr
Frog, really, I guess no one spent the rest of their life in prison because they drew a map where the earth revolved around the sun and angered the church at the time either, huh?
The missing link is something that the creationists came up with. horses, one with 4 toes 2' tall, then 4' with 4 toes, then present day size with 1 toe, a hoof, now, is there a missing link that stood present day size with 2 toes? no, as stated, sometimes it takes a leap. Explain how every mammal has a ratio of brain mass to body weight, a formula which holds true for all mammals except man, BUT, if you factor in early forms of man, there is successive increases in brain mass. If there is no successive evolution from lower form of life to man, why do we contain all the genetic encoding of lower life forms? Why does a human embryo form gills, then lungs? Why do we develop a primitive brain, then add the higher functions? Thats like building a 1 story ranch house, then building a skyscraper on top of it. Not the most efficient means by far, so why did an all knowing creator do things the long way around? to throw us off? to enforce the image he was never here, is god a CIA agent under deep cover?
-Ralph
What does Galileo have to do with thinking the earth is flat??
We have the genetic encoding of all lower life forms --- what are you talking about?? There are no gills on embryos. What you are referring to are pharyngeal arches and pouches that develop into part of the face, muscles of mastication and * expression, bones of the middle ear, and endocrine glands. You may think there are gills on mammals, but you'd be wrong.
Nothing you mention proves anything with regard to evolution. Genetics depend on replication of DNA. When you have replication, 46 chromosomes come together from 2 zygotes of 23 chromosomes each (for humans). If a mistake occurs in replication, the result is a defective organism which is sterile or severely mentally deficient. So explain development of organisms with numbers of chromosomes different from the parent's chromosomes. You won't -- trust me, its scientifically impossible.
So again I ask, show me one species that developed from another. Isolated facts prove nothing. I don't fault Darwin for his observations. He did not have the science we do today. You, however, should know better.
Question - Is it true that babies can be born with a
congenital throwback i.e. born with fish gill/s and if so what is it called?
All mammals seemingly have gill slits in their very early embryo development.
We call this ontogeny recapitulating phylogeny..where the development of the
individual goes through some of the characteristics of the animals lower in
the evolutionary development.
When we look at early fetal development of various animals we see all having
gill slits, and tails.
Your questions involves very complex answers, but I will address some aspects of
what you ask.
Yes, there are people born with tail-like fragments or protrusions of the spinal
column, that are removed or reinserted at birth. Though I have seen this in
some medical journal, it is so rare that I have had nurses question the whole idea.
These "tails" are usually not substantial in structure and certainly do not
take on a look of a monkey tail, etc. As a matter of fact, they may not be
a tail per sa. I questioned this idea for a long time until I found a friend
that was born with a very small protrusions of sorts. Whether it was a tail,
is probably a matter of semantics. I do not recall a name for this phenomenon.
If the gill-like slits did remain, the fetus would probably be naturally aborted
at a very young embryonic stage. The complex feedback system of embryo
development requires a successful step by step process. The human genome project
will probably address this or other past characteristics eventually. Humans have
a tremendous number of introns (I believe in chromosome 20 alone, there are 164
of these-source "Nature" (Dec. 2001 issue ?).It seems that much of our unused
DNA is coded for our evolutionary past, but this is not clear at this writing.
It is very clear that we are a product of evolutionary development and we are
the threshold of understanding all of this better thanks to DNA analysis studies
and related techniques. Keep your eye out for further developments and
explanations.
This whole post is bogus. There are no such things as gills on embryos. Pick up any embryology book and look for gills -- you won't find it. Pharyngeal pouches and arches may appear like gills to the ignorant, but they perform no "gill-like" function. They become the face and its muscles and bony structures.
I know them as I had to memorize them for the United States Medical Licensing Exam.
quote:Originally posted by REBJr
MissSlippers, loved it hon, mind if I borrow it sometime?
I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmic, primordial, atomic globule. Consequently, my family pride is something inconceivable.
Sure, but if you get rich from it, pay me royalties. [8D]
Jacqueline
www.gratuitouslylongdomainname.net
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants and the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt (1783)
Well, junior, you lost to a girl before you forfeited. As ECC, FROG and I have shown, your dreams are not substantial. Quotes are not facts, THINGS are facts. ECC presented a fine case. FROG, an unrefutable case. Now since you don't care for me, are the reasoning skills you yearn for fulfilled in ECC or FROG? What do you say to someone who REALLY knows embryology?? And no I would'nt act this way if you were'nt so condescending. You are so rude!!!
In the words of Jack Nickolson (A Few Good Men), "Don't I feel like a F**** *****."
REBJr, I'm not trying to get into anything with you or anyone else. I'm simply trying to maturely state my beliefs and the reasons that back them up. I have no disrespect for you or babybear. I respect most ppl on GB including yourself.
Comments
Frog, really, I guess no one spent the rest of their life in prison because they drew a map where the earth revolved around the sun and angered the church at the time either, huh?
The missing link is something that the creationists came up with. horses, one with 4 toes 2' tall, then 4' with 4 toes, then present day size with 1 toe, a hoof, now, is there a missing link that stood present day size with 2 toes? no, as stated, sometimes it takes a leap. Explain how every mammal has a ratio of brain mass to body weight, a formula which holds true for all mammals except man, BUT, if you factor in early forms of man, there is successive increases in brain mass. If there is no successive evolution from lower form of life to man, why do we contain all the genetic encoding of lower life forms? Why does a human embryo form gills, then lungs? Why do we develop a primitive brain, then add the higher functions? Thats like building a 1 story ranch house, then building a skyscraper on top of it. Not the most efficient means by far, so why did an all knowing creator do things the long way around? to throw us off? to enforce the image he was never here, is god a CIA agent under deep cover?
-Ralph
What does Galileo have to do with thinking the earth is flat??
We have the genetic encoding of all lower life forms --- what are you talking about?? There are no gills on embryos. What you are referring to are pharyngeal arches and pouches that develop into part of the face, muscles of mastication and * expression, bones of the middle ear, and endocrine glands. You may think there are gills on mammals, but you'd be wrong.
Nothing you mention proves anything with regard to evolution. Genetics depend on replication of DNA. When you have replication, 46 chromosomes come together from 2 zygotes of 23 chromosomes each (for humans). If a mistake occurs in replication, the result is a defective organism which is sterile or severely mentally deficient. So explain development of organisms with numbers of chromosomes different from the parent's chromosomes. You won't -- trust me, its scientifically impossible.
So again I ask, show me one species that developed from another. Isolated facts prove nothing. I don't fault Darwin for his observations. He did not have the science we do today. You, however, should know better.
Frog
GO NAVY, BEAT ARMY
Hold overs from lower lifeforms
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/mole00/mole00114.htm
Question - Is it true that babies can be born with a
congenital throwback i.e. born with fish gill/s and if so what is it called?
All mammals seemingly have gill slits in their very early embryo development.
We call this ontogeny recapitulating phylogeny..where the development of the
individual goes through some of the characteristics of the animals lower in
the evolutionary development.
When we look at early fetal development of various animals we see all having
gill slits, and tails.
Your questions involves very complex answers, but I will address some aspects of
what you ask.
Yes, there are people born with tail-like fragments or protrusions of the spinal
column, that are removed or reinserted at birth. Though I have seen this in
some medical journal, it is so rare that I have had nurses question the whole idea.
These "tails" are usually not substantial in structure and certainly do not
take on a look of a monkey tail, etc. As a matter of fact, they may not be
a tail per sa. I questioned this idea for a long time until I found a friend
that was born with a very small protrusions of sorts. Whether it was a tail,
is probably a matter of semantics. I do not recall a name for this phenomenon.
If the gill-like slits did remain, the fetus would probably be naturally aborted
at a very young embryonic stage. The complex feedback system of embryo
development requires a successful step by step process. The human genome project
will probably address this or other past characteristics eventually. Humans have
a tremendous number of introns (I believe in chromosome 20 alone, there are 164
of these-source "Nature" (Dec. 2001 issue ?).It seems that much of our unused
DNA is coded for our evolutionary past, but this is not clear at this writing.
It is very clear that we are a product of evolutionary development and we are
the threshold of understanding all of this better thanks to DNA analysis studies
and related techniques. Keep your eye out for further developments and
explanations.
This whole post is bogus. There are no such things as gills on embryos. Pick up any embryology book and look for gills -- you won't find it. Pharyngeal pouches and arches may appear like gills to the ignorant, but they perform no "gill-like" function. They become the face and its muscles and bony structures.
I know them as I had to memorize them for the United States Medical Licensing Exam.
Frog
GO NAVY, BEAT ARMY
MissSlippers, loved it hon, mind if I borrow it sometime?
I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmic, primordial, atomic globule. Consequently, my family pride is something inconceivable.
Sure, but if you get rich from it, pay me royalties. [8D]
Jacqueline
www.gratuitouslylongdomainname.net
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants and the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt (1783)
NRA Life Member ---"A pocket knife, a clean hankey, and a pistol... things I can use." - Ted Nugent
REBJr, I'm not trying to get into anything with you or anyone else. I'm simply trying to maturely state my beliefs and the reasons that back them up. I have no disrespect for you or babybear. I respect most ppl on GB including yourself.
Frog
GO NAVY, BEAT ARMY