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Good...North Carolina ends pay boosts for teacher
riflemike
Member Posts: 10,599 ✭
North Carolina ends pay boosts for teacher master's degrees
Published July 27, 2013
The Wall Street Journal
North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory, a Republican, signed a budget bill Friday that eliminates teacher tenure and-in a rare move-gets rid of the automatic pay increase teachers receive for earning a master's degree.
The legislation targets a compensation mechanism that is common in the U.S., where teachers receive automatic pay increases for years of service and advanced degrees. Some research has suggested those advanced degrees don't lead to improved teaching.
Although a few other states have talked about doing away with the automatic pay increase for advanced degrees, experts say North Carolina is believed to be the first state to do so.
The budget bill-which drew hundreds of teachers to the Capitol in protest earlier this week-also eliminates tenure for elementary and high-school teachers and freezes teacher salaries for the fifth time in six years.
It comes as states and districts across the country are revamping teacher evaluations, salaries and job security, and linking them more closely to student performance. These changes have been propelled, in part, by the Obama administration and GOP governors.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/27/north-carolina-ends-pay-boosts-for-teacher-master-degrees/?test=latestnews#ixzz2aFgdzl9h
Published July 27, 2013
The Wall Street Journal
North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory, a Republican, signed a budget bill Friday that eliminates teacher tenure and-in a rare move-gets rid of the automatic pay increase teachers receive for earning a master's degree.
The legislation targets a compensation mechanism that is common in the U.S., where teachers receive automatic pay increases for years of service and advanced degrees. Some research has suggested those advanced degrees don't lead to improved teaching.
Although a few other states have talked about doing away with the automatic pay increase for advanced degrees, experts say North Carolina is believed to be the first state to do so.
The budget bill-which drew hundreds of teachers to the Capitol in protest earlier this week-also eliminates tenure for elementary and high-school teachers and freezes teacher salaries for the fifth time in six years.
It comes as states and districts across the country are revamping teacher evaluations, salaries and job security, and linking them more closely to student performance. These changes have been propelled, in part, by the Obama administration and GOP governors.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/27/north-carolina-ends-pay-boosts-for-teacher-master-degrees/?test=latestnews#ixzz2aFgdzl9h
Comments
Well, it's not like NC is known for embracing intellect or being a bastion of knowledge anyway so this is not a great surprise.
And any other southern state is better ???
I get a $5,000 yearly bonus for having a terminal degree. I think my doctoral studies better prepared me for a career in education and I do think I am a better teacher for it. The state recognizes this with a salary bonus.
As for tenure, I don't get it in AR and wish I did. It doesn't mean you can't get fired for good reason. All it means is that you can assume you will be rehired next year unless there is reason not to. Some think tenure means a forever job and you can't be fired. Not so.
I think all of this is political. Teachers (particularly the union) are raving Democrats so now that the GOP has the reins they are screwing the rank and file teachers as pay back. I don't see this as a positive thing. The teacher union being slavish to the Democrats is bad, tit-for-tat is no better.
Too old to live...too young to die...
Lets pay teachers MORE....a LOT more....but lets set standards that affect the teacher's future.
How about they keep their job if we see results. If you have a 10% drop out rate at your school.....massive layoffs and we hire different staff to work out the problems. Why not have the parents give "report cards" on the teachers each year so they can see who constantly meets the needs of the communities they are in.
If we paid teachers enough....and held them accountable....we would have the smartest, most motivated system possible.
I'm tired of mediocre day care level teachers being in charge of my kids.
Obviously whatever we are doing is NOT working. My thoughts are that we should go a different route.
Lets pay teachers MORE....a LOT more....but lets set standards that affect the teacher's future.
How about they keep their job if we see results. If you have a 10% drop out rate at your school.....massive layoffs and we hire different staff to work out the problems. Why not have the parents give "report cards" on the teachers each year so they can see who constantly meets the needs of the communities they are in.
If we paid teachers enough....and held them accountable....we would have the smartest, most motivated system possible.
I'm tired of mediocre day care level teachers being in charge of my kids.
How about letting teachers teach.... And parents fulfill their obligation of parenting.
Society needs to face it... Some kids are just dumb as bricks...
And no amount of coaxing will get them through school with good grades.
Some kids need to work with their hands and not their brains.
Not every student that goes through school is proficient enough to get a college education...
Doesn't necessarily mean the teachers failed.... Means they didn't learn.
The old saying stands...
"You can drag a horse to water... But you can't make him drink."
Much of why a student does poorly in school hinges on how they do at home.
A student that has the support and initiative to do well... Does well. In spite of what a teacher does or does not do.
A teacher's obligation is to present material in a way that a student can understand it and learn.
Nothing more...
Yet society today believes a teacher is part parent, disciplinarian, police officer, baby sitter, hero, or otherwise... Not a teacher.
So how can a teacher, teach... When they spend much of their day doing NON Teaching things ?
Removing tenure is fine, but encouraging teachers to obtain advanced degrees is a good thing.....
This will hurt the state in the long run
Well, I only have a doctorate in education and 17 years of teaching experience so obviously people who bamboozle enough voters into electing them certainly know more about teaching than do I, but salary rewards for additional education beyond the minimum required for the job are thought to be a good thing.(Got a citation for that?) People educated beyond the minimum tend to be... well, above the minimum.(Citation please.) Not just teachers, but often police, fire fighters, and others get rewards for continuing education. The story says studies suggest there is no benefit but I note there is no citation regarding what studies they mean and who conducted them and this is contrary to accepted fact in education. More training is better. Anyone care to deny that (and back it it up with proof)? (Asking for proof when providing none is contrary to accepted norms of philosophical argument.)
I get a $5,000 yearly bonus for having a terminal degree. I think my doctoral studies better prepared me for a career in education and I do think I am a better teacher for it. The state recognizes this with a salary bonus.
As for tenure, I don't get it in AR and wish I did. It doesn't mean you can't get fired for good reason. All it means is that you can assume you will be rehired next year unless there is reason not to. Some think tenure means a forever job and you can't be fired. Not so.
I think all of this is political. Teachers (particularly the union) are raving Democrats so now that the GOP has the reins they are screwing the rank and file teachers as pay back. I don't see this as a positive thing. The teacher union being slavish to the Democrats is bad, tit-for-tat is no better.
As you cite your advanced education on a regular basis, it is obvious that it holds great sway in your self-opinion. This is fine with me, but I have a crazy idea that performance is a better indicator of those who deserve higher compensation that basing it on anyone who holds an advanced degree and/or their own self-ranking. You may think it makes you a better teacher. What do your students and the parents of those students think?
This 'accepted fact in education' you speak of. Do you have a citation for that? Or is it much like the 'scientific consensus' that underlies the AGW claims? While we are all busy searching for citations, perhaps you could show me one that says that someone needs a Masters in anydamnthing to teach math to a a second grader.
I would also mention that before you can get to tit-for-tat, you have to begin with 'tit'. I have yet to hear a teacher rise up against the slavish Democrat support of the unions, and their members, until there is some pushback, and they are grasping for some belated high moral ground.
One thing I will say for sure, and that is that your advanced degree did nothing to prepare you for logical debate.
Expand attitude across a state and nation and you see why the country in going into the crapper......and now we have a wage race to the bottom.....anyone who makes a good wage is screwed....by GOP politicians who uses emotion and jealousy to get office, and by the democraps who want to tax the hell out of him.......
I know this....stupid people cannot teach stupid people....I want someone a hell of a lot smarter than me teaching my kids....the more education he has, the better. Education costs money...and educated people want paid....otherwise they would have never gone to school and would have gone into roofing or meat packing for a peanut wage....
At one time there was plenty of money especially for the ones at the top. It was suppose to be for the poor kids to help them learn as more money solved this. You talk about waste, plenty going for advanced degrees with the county paying for the college, car, gas, food and study on the school time. Also for R&R plenty of trips all over the country for worthless training. It has all ended now and money is short and it is all coming out the play house the people at the top have had for at least the last ten years.
Money is not the answer as once thought.
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
Obviously whatever we are doing is NOT working. My thoughts are that we should go a different route.
Lets pay teachers MORE....a LOT more....but lets set standards that affect the teacher's future.
How about they keep their job if we see results. If you have a 10% drop out rate at your school.....massive layoffs and we hire different staff to work out the problems. Why not have the parents give "report cards" on the teachers each year so they can see who constantly meets the needs of the communities they are in.
If we paid teachers enough....and held them accountable....we would have the smartest, most motivated system possible.
I'm tired of mediocre day care level teachers being in charge of my kids.
How about letting teachers teach.... And parents fulfill their obligation of parenting.
Society needs to face it... Some kids are just dumb as bricks...
And no amount of coaxing will get them through school with good grades.
Some kids need to work with their hands and not their brains.
Not every student that goes through school is proficient enough to get a college education...
Doesn't necessarily mean the teachers failed.... Means they didn't learn.
The old saying stands...
"You can drag a horse to water... But you can't make him drink."
Much of why a student does poorly in school hinges on how they do at home.
A student that has the support and initiative to do well... Does well. In spite of what a teacher does or does not do.
A teacher's obligation is to present material in a way that a student can understand it and learn.
Nothing more...
Yet society today believes a teacher is part parent, disciplinarian, police officer, baby sitter, hero, or otherwise... Not a teacher.
So how can a teacher, teach... When they spend much of their day doing NON Teaching things ?
I think the only fair thing to do is to have the same types of punishment for the kids in this situation. WHY drag an entire classroom down because one person's parents is doing a horrific job of parenting. The kids that aren't keeping up should go at their own pace.
I once saw a program about a new type of teaching.....where there were NO classrooms or groups. The kids moved from activity and lessons as they grasped things. There were 6th graders working with 9th graders....and each lesson was filled with students that had moved forward.
If you are talented enough to move through things....you should not have to wait on a group of 60 other kids to "get it." I know it is sad to have someone who should be graduating....who cannot do basic skills, but in today's world it is better to gear things toward an individual's skills rather than what we do now.
This silly system we have now is set up to produce kids ready for the 1950's workforce. Lets move on to the 20th century people!
quote:Originally posted by Doc
...
... I have a crazy idea that performance is a better indicator of those who deserve higher compensation that basing it on anyone who holds an advanced degree and/or their own self-ranking. You may think it makes you a better teacher. What do your students and the parents of those students think?
...
And what defines performance in the public school system... ?
Getting intelligent students to college... ?
Helping a student understand a difficult subject in terms he / she can better attune to... ?
Or seeing how many students can get pushed through the system... ?
What metrics would you agree to for a teacher's performance to be measured... ?
Curious... as to your definition of 'performance'.
Past and current government believes that every student should go to college.
I agree that every student should be given the opportunity to go to college...
But not every student has the "capacity" to go to college...
Should the teacher be penalized to the lack of initiative of a student or parents ability to foster such initiative in a student ?
The public school system sucks... But it's not solely to be based upon or bore by the "teacher".
Teachers of thirty - forty - fifty years ago... Had a desire to 'teach'... Because students (for the most part) wanted to learn.
That desire has waned due to governmental intrusion, lack of parenting... And students who couldn't care less about 'learning'.
Those students that didn't want to learn were removed from the equation... Pure and simple.
Sadly... Teachers today are not just teachers... If teachers were expected to only teach...
Maybe the situation would be simpler...
Yet... They are the 'blame'... Easy to point the finger when one has never dealt with the issues.
quote:Originally posted by retroxler58
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
Obviously whatever we are doing is NOT working. My thoughts are that we should go a different route.
Lets pay teachers MORE....a LOT more....but lets set standards that affect the teacher's future.
How about they keep their job if we see results. If you have a 10% drop out rate at your school.....massive layoffs and we hire different staff to work out the problems. Why not have the parents give "report cards" on the teachers each year so they can see who constantly meets the needs of the communities they are in.
If we paid teachers enough....and held them accountable....we would have the smartest, most motivated system possible.
I'm tired of mediocre day care level teachers being in charge of my kids.
How about letting teachers teach.... And parents fulfill their obligation of parenting.
Society needs to face it... Some kids are just dumb as bricks...
And no amount of coaxing will get them through school with good grades.
Some kids need to work with their hands and not their brains.
Not every student that goes through school is proficient enough to get a college education...
Doesn't necessarily mean the teachers failed.... Means they didn't learn.
The old saying stands...
"You can drag a horse to water... But you can't make him drink."
Much of why a student does poorly in school hinges on how they do at home.
A student that has the support and initiative to do well... Does well. In spite of what a teacher does or does not do.
A teacher's obligation is to present material in a way that a student can understand it and learn.
Nothing more...
Yet society today believes a teacher is part parent, disciplinarian, police officer, baby sitter, hero, or otherwise... Not a teacher.
So how can a teacher, teach... When they spend much of their day doing NON Teaching things ?
I think the only fair thing to do is to have the same types of punishment for the kids in this situation. WHY drag an entire classroom down because one person's parents is doing a horrific job of parenting. The kids that aren't keeping up should go at their own pace.
I once saw a program about a new type of teaching.....where there were NO classrooms or groups. The kids moved from activity and lessons as they grasped things. There were 6th graders working with 9th graders....and each lesson was filled with students that had moved forward.
If you are talented enough to move through things....you should not have to wait on a group of 60 other kids to "get it." I know it is sad to have someone who should be graduating....who cannot do basic skills, but in today's world it is better to gear things toward an individual's skills rather than what we do now.
This silly system we have now is set up to produce kids ready for the 1950's workforce. Lets move on to the 20th century people!
Kasey... I agree with you.
But that's NOT how the school system is now structured.
Ever heard of "No child left behind"... ? Engineered and emplaced by Bush ?
That policy did away with what would be a stratified structure...
Where students with higher aptitudes are challenged...
And those students with not so high of an aptitude are helped at a slower pace.
That policy would have classes filled with similar students so that a teacher could teach at what ever pace the students could absorb...
That policy would 'segregate' less intelligent students... To the dismay of parents who would be forced to acknowledge that "Little Johnny or Sweet Sally" just can't get it as fast...
AND Need... Heaven forbid I say it... "SPECIAL Education"...
Presented to students by teachers with a background in SPECIAL Education...
So what did the "No child left behind" policy do ???
It provided that EVERY classroom have a balanced portion of smart kids, average kids, and less than smart kids...
How does a single teacher teach to multiple levels of intelligence WITHOUT forcing one level or another to fall behind ?
The system as it is sucks.... It does NOT Work... And it's NOT the teachers fault.
Yet parents want their child to be taught to a level that he / she may not be capable to handle...
Or force a child to be ignored when another child needs attention more often...
This doesn't even begin to address students who for whatever reason are disruptive in class...
Ever wonder why schools now have police officers patrolling the halls... ?
We used to have schools set aside for disruptive students... We called 'em "training schools".
Basically, students were given a chance to adhere to normal school policies and if they failed...
They were yanked from the standard school and placed in a more 'secure' setting...
Until they proved themselves otherwise.
Guess what... Such schools no longer exist. Hence, the reason, for police officers in public schools.
Teachers of thirty - forty - fifty years ago... Had a desire to 'teach'... Because students (for the most part) wanted to learn.
That desire has waned due to governmental intrusion, lack of parenting... And students who couldn't care less about 'learning'.
Those students that didn't want to learn were removed from the equation... Pure and simple.
Sadly... Teachers today are not just teachers... If teachers were expected to only teach...
Maybe the situation would be simpler...
Yet... They are the 'blame'... Easy to point the finger when one has never dealt with the issues.
Well said!
I place the blame for poor grades at the feet of the students parents.
Well, I only have a doctorate in education and 17 years of teaching experience so obviously people who bamboozle enough voters into electing them certainly know more about teaching than do I, but salary rewards for additional education beyond the minimum required for the job are thought to be a good thing. People educated beyond the minimum tend to be... well, above the minimum. Not just teachers, but often police, fire fighters, and others get rewards for continuing education. The story says studies suggest there is no benefit but I note there is no citation regarding what studies they mean and who conducted them and this is contrary to accepted fact in education. More training is better. Anyone care to deny that (and back it it up with proof)?
I get a $5,000 yearly bonus for having a terminal degree. I think my doctoral studies better prepared me for a career in education and I do think I am a better teacher for it. The state recognizes this with a salary bonus.
I'd have to agree with you. Professions evolve, technology and strategies change. It is important to incentivize your employees to continue their professional education. I'd much rather see my officers attend supplemental training in specialty areas and continue their educational growth then just attend a mandated in-service training every two years.
Each student should have a chance....not this whole thing where its a glorified day care with the bare bones being offered to the whole class as far education goes. We will never learn what our kids can do with this system. They may be "top of the class"....but who knows what they could have done without that silly class holding them back.
Last year Erica came home 3 days in one week, and told us they watched videos in class all day. I asked why, because 2 of the students did not understand the work, so the rest of the class MUST wait for them, the slow kids control the speed of the class.
I also know that having more education does not make for a better teacher. Some of the best educated people I have ever met were as dense as can be, not a lick of common sense.
I also know the kids that are disruptive can't be removed from class, they have rights. Hard to teach a class when you have one kid walking around yelling and screaming all day, can't send him out of class so the others can hear and understand the assignment, after all he has A.D.D.
Yes schools are a mess, no argument about that. But just tossing money at them is not going to fix all the problems. It seems like in places where the teachers get paid on child test scores many teachers and office staff have been caught faking test scores, after all they don't want to miss that big year end bonus.
I have always found it interesting that many business' will pay for their employees to get additional education or training, and often give them time off to accomplish it, while educators generally have to pay the entire cost of additional education out of their own pocket, and do it on their own time.
The additional work was and is still required in several forms (MA, MS, or Continuing Education Units) in many states, and the idea of requiring the work while refusing to pay any compensation for the expense and time is ridiculous.
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
Obviously whatever we are doing is NOT working. My thoughts are that we should go a different route.
Lets pay teachers MORE....a LOT more....but lets set standards that affect the teacher's future.
How about they keep their job if we see results. If you have a 10% drop out rate at your school.....massive layoffs and we hire different staff to work out the problems. Why not have the parents give "report cards" on the teachers each year so they can see who constantly meets the needs of the communities they are in.
If we paid teachers enough....and held them accountable....we would have the smartest, most motivated system possible.
I'm tired of mediocre day care level teachers being in charge of my kids.
How about letting teachers teach.... And parents fulfill their obligation of parenting.
Society needs to face it... Some kids are just dumb as bricks...
And no amount of coaxing will get them through school with good grades.
Some kids need to work with their hands and not their brains.
Not every student that goes through school is proficient enough to get a college education...
Doesn't necessarily mean the teachers failed.... Means they didn't learn.
The old saying stands...
"You can drag a horse to water... But you can't make him drink."
Much of why a student does poorly in school hinges on how they do at home.
A student that has the support and initiative to do well... Does well. In spite of what a teacher does or does not do.
A teacher's obligation is to present material in a way that a student can understand it and learn.
Nothing more...
Yet society today believes a teacher is part parent, disciplinarian, police officer, baby sitter, hero, or otherwise... Not a teacher.
So how can a teacher, teach... When they spend much of their day doing NON Teaching things ?
I agree that the whole idea of schools today needs to change.
Each student should have a chance....not this whole thing where its a glorified day care with the bare bones being offered to the whole class as far education goes. We will never learn what our kids can do with this system. They may be "top of the class"....but who knows what they could have done without that silly class holding them back.
Exactly....
Students that could do better aren't encouraged or simply offered the chance to do so.
Those that can't drag the entire class along... Like the proverbial anchor.
But it's the teachers fault... !!!
That "little Johnny and sweet Sally" didn't get A's in school and now are burdens on society.
Heaven forbid that their parents needed to intervene... They work all day don't you know!
They shouldn't be expected to help with homework...
Or encourage them to seek out information... On "their time"... That's what teachers are for!!!
It's a screwed up situation that has no quick fix...
Taking away an incentive for a teacher to "do better" is really gonna help... Right!
How about we ALL tell our boss... "Forget that raise this year boss... I don't need an incentive to do better...
I can do much better with out it !!! In fact... Take another 10% off the top... I'll work for less."
That'll go over real well...
However I feel sorry for NC. Teachers will leave the state and go elsewhere. And what lamebrain politician thinks a beginning teacher knows what a veteran teacher does. And what about the administration... are they going with base pay? Expect lawsuits..
quote:Originally posted by Doc
Well, I only have a doctorate in education and 17 years of teaching experience so obviously people who bamboozle enough voters into electing them certainly know more about teaching than do I, but salary rewards for additional education beyond the minimum required for the job are thought to be a good thing.(Got a citation for that?) People educated beyond the minimum tend to be... well, above the minimum.(Citation please.) Not just teachers, but often police, fire fighters, and others get rewards for continuing education. The story says studies suggest there is no benefit but I note there is no citation regarding what studies they mean and who conducted them and this is contrary to accepted fact in education. More training is better. Anyone care to deny that (and back it it up with proof)? (Asking for proof when providing none is contrary to accepted norms of philosophical argument.)
I get a $5,000 yearly bonus for having a terminal degree. I think my doctoral studies better prepared me for a career in education and I do think I am a better teacher for it. The state recognizes this with a salary bonus.
As for tenure, I don't get it in AR and wish I did. It doesn't mean you can't get fired for good reason. All it means is that you can assume you will be rehired next year unless there is reason not to. Some think tenure means a forever job and you can't be fired. Not so.
I think all of this is political. Teachers (particularly the union) are raving Democrats so now that the GOP has the reins they are screwing the rank and file teachers as pay back. I don't see this as a positive thing. The teacher union being slavish to the Democrats is bad, tit-for-tat is no better.
As you cite your advanced education on a regular basis, it is obvious that it holds great sway in your self-opinion. This is fine with me, but I have a crazy idea that performance is a better indicator of those who deserve higher compensation that basing it on anyone who holds an advanced degree and/or their own self-ranking. You may think it makes you a better teacher. What do your students and the parents of those students think?
This 'accepted fact in education' you speak of. Do you have a citation for that? Or is it much like the 'scientific consensus' that underlies the AGW claims? While we are all busy searching for citations, perhaps you could show me one that says that someone needs a Masters in anydamnthing to teach math to a a second grader.
I would also mention that before you can get to tit-for-tat, you have to begin with 'tit'. I have yet to hear a teacher rise up against the slavish Democrat support of the unions, and their members, until there is some pushback, and they are grasping for some belated high moral ground.
One thing I will say for sure, and that is that your advanced degree did nothing to prepare you for logical debate.
10 RING!!!!!
Indiana used to require a teacher to earn their MS in five years, apply for an extension, or look for other employment. Not so anymore
Correct, CEU's, at your own expense, until you retire are the requirement now.
http://www.waldenu.edu/~/media/Files/WAL/outcomes-research-broch-faqs-web-final.pdf
http://schoolimprovementnetwork.blogspot.com/2012/05/does-masters-degree-equal-teacher.html
Of course there are many variables in evaluating teaching effectiveness and teacher quality. A teacher in an urban school will have more low performing students than will a teacher in an upscale suburban school. But in general, I believe (and logic would support this notion) that when one is more educated and better trained for one's job then one is likely to do that job better. Does this mean having a graduate degree ensures a particular individual will excel? Of course not. But taken as a whole, in general, I believe the quality of performance rises with higher educational levels. This concept is widely supported in many fields and industries, so why would education be different?
BTW- I have laid out my qualifications on which I base my opinions, what are yours?
Too old to live...too young to die...
I have three children that graduated public high school and went on to college.
The middle boy graduated college and never looked back.
The youngest daughter... Graduated college... And wanted more, but hadn't the background to do so.
So she put together her own curriculum and applied herself and was accepted into and graduated from PharmD school.
The eldest has graduated from college and is currently working on his PhD in Electrical Engineering.
Do I attribute this apparent success to a teacher's ability to teach my children... ?
When two of the three came damned close to NOT making grade several times in elementary school and even into high school...
And one of the three came damned close to failing out of college the first year.
And... Another one was so home sick that school seemed to be only a second thought...
And the other one... Literally had such a distaste for learning... That it was like pulling teeth.
Is this the fault of bad teachers... Poor teaching... ???
NO !!! Absolutely Not. The government had made the decision long before that followed up with "No Child Left Behind".
And we understood the value and cost of a good education... And fostered that concept in our children.
It all came about for a love of knowledge... The desire to learn and be more than they were.
Something that we... My wife and I instilled from an early age... LONG before they were ever in school.
When there was something going on at school... We were there... When a fight broke out... We disciplined.
When grades weren't cutting it... We broke out the books and explained it to the best of our abilities...
And when we absolutely had no clue of the subject matter... We spent time in the books FIRST.
WE... Were the examples to OUR children. We didn't expect the government to do that for us...
Are our children smarter than most... ? Hardly... Average at best.
Simply put... We had the initiative to encourage them to do their ever loving best.
AND EXPECTED THEM TO DO IT... Always !
And when they didn't... We knew we needed to step up to the plate and do OUR JOBS.
As parents.....
There is such a thing as too much education......
Don't I know it! Don
quote:Originally posted by we_dig_it
There is such a thing as too much education......
Don't I know it! Don
Dr.Don?? [;)]
quote:Originally posted by dcon12
quote:Originally posted by we_dig_it
There is such a thing as too much education......
Don't I know it! Don
Dr.Don?? [;)]
Sounds reasonable... Anyone with a collection of one liners...
Or as quick a wit as Don has... Got to be educated.
Not necessarily by a teacher though... I surmise Don is self taught.
To the level that it's well Piled High and Deep !!!
The greater problem here is not the teachers, it is the students. As far as I can remember, the kids in middle school, high school, and even in college really did not care about learning. The majority of them for sure. They did not want to study, do homework, projects, anything. Many never even came to class. They just wanted to play and have fun, play on their phones, etc. Even in college. The only exceptions were in my higher level professional programs. Everyone was serious, everyone stressed and sacrificed to learn everything and make good grades, and everyone cared. And everyone passed.
If you don't care about school, teachers and laws aren't going to change that. But if you do care, even bad teachers cannot stop you from learning and passing.
I've been in school for most of my life. There are some teachers who simply do not teach. Such as my physics teachers. I failed physics 3 times over the years because I just do not understand it and have never been properly taught. But other than that, almost every other teacher I have had really enjoys teaching, and they really know the material, and they are able to explain it so that you can understand it.
The greater problem here is not the teachers, it is the students. As far as I can remember, the kids in middle school, high school, and even in college really did not care about learning. The majority of them for sure. They did not want to study, do homework, projects, anything. Many never even came to class. They just wanted to play and have fun, play on their phones, etc. Even in college. The only exceptions were in my higher level professional programs. Everyone was serious, everyone stressed and sacrificed to learn everything and make good grades, and everyone cared. And everyone passed.
If you don't care about school, teachers and laws aren't going to change that. But if you do care, even bad teachers cannot stop you from learning and passing.
Very true post. I am a product of the Mobile and Baldwin County (Alabama) School System, yet I score in the top ten percent in the country. I actually wanted to learn and that's why I'm so intelligent now compared to average people who didn't.
Have you ever noticed that the kids with the highest test scores K-12 are home schooled?? Stew on that for awhile.........
Not taking the bait !
Have you ever noticed that the kids with the highest test scores K-12 are home schooled?? Stew on that for awhile.........
Home schoolers I am betting are also taught about God, guns, and the Constitution. They are taught common sense and real life skills and knowledge. Now just what they need to know to pass a test. Or at least if I ever have homeschooled kids that's what they will be learning. Stuff you won't learn in public schools.