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Rreloading basics. Do I need all this stuff?
jsergovic
Member Posts: 5,526
The following items are the basic requirements to begin reloading.
or separate RCBS bench mount Primer Tool
or, Dillon 550B if you can afford it.
(The Rockchucker Master Kit will give most all of what you'll need)
Powder dispenser
Powder measure
Funnel
Scale
Powder Trickler
RCBS Case Trimmer & Collets
Reamer/Champfer tool
Calipers
Lube Pad or Spray Lube (reccommended)
Case Neck Brush for lubing inside case mouth
RCBS Dies
Kinetic Bullet Puller
Plastic Case Trays
RCBS = ??
OAL = ???
I want to start reloading 45ACP CHEAPLY before I buy good stuff.
If anybody has some old equipment, I'd appreciate it. I'll pay shipping.
I learned plumbing (and music) on inferior tools; something that works but is not the most convenient is O.K. And then you appreciate better equipment.
or separate RCBS bench mount Primer Tool
or, Dillon 550B if you can afford it.
(The Rockchucker Master Kit will give most all of what you'll need)
Powder dispenser
Powder measure
Funnel
Scale
Powder Trickler
RCBS Case Trimmer & Collets
Reamer/Champfer tool
Calipers
Lube Pad or Spray Lube (reccommended)
Case Neck Brush for lubing inside case mouth
RCBS Dies
Kinetic Bullet Puller
Plastic Case Trays
RCBS = ??
OAL = ???
I want to start reloading 45ACP CHEAPLY before I buy good stuff.
If anybody has some old equipment, I'd appreciate it. I'll pay shipping.
I learned plumbing (and music) on inferior tools; something that works but is not the most convenient is O.K. And then you appreciate better equipment.
Comments
"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas
"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas
You must have:
0000. Reloading manual
1. .45 die set & shell holder(I advise a carbide sizer set; somewhat more expensive, but you can skip the time and cost of lubricating the brass before loading and the time cleaning it off afterwards . . . plus drastically reduce the possibility of contaminating your primers).
2. Some sort of a press to mount the dies. You can find cheaper, but the RCBS will last practically forever and holds better resale value if you decide it is not for you. The Dillon keeps its value even better, but the cost is much higher.
3. Powder measure / powder dispenser are - for me - equivalent terms. You can live without one, but it will really slow down the process. If you don't get this, you definitely need the funnel. If you do, get a mount so you can do the job off the press - it's inevitable you will spill powder and having powder granules all through the working mechanisms of the press cause excess wear over time and tend to gum things up generally.
4. Scale - yep, absolutely.
5. Chamfer tool
6. Reloading manual (just in case you overlooked the first item) [;)]
7. Lube pad and lube if you don't have a carbide die set.
8. Calipers
9. Primer tooling:
a. flipper tray to dump the packages and easily pick them up right side up.
b. a primer arm for the press.
c. optional - but *super highly* recommended - one or more primer tubes so you're not trying to pick up individual primers to put in the arm.
You should have:
1. Bullet puller . . . but if you never make a mistake, skip this [;)]
2. Loading tray(s) . . . enables you to operate in batches, doing each operation once. More importantly these allow you to compare 50 to 60 rounds at once - particularly important after measuring powder and especially so with the .45 where loads occupy a relatively small volume of the case, making double charges a serious possibility.
Get later:
1. Powder trickler - far more important in loading rifle ammo. Yes, you can make sure each round has a perfectly identical charge weight with a handgun caliber, also, but until you are shooting the final round at Camp Perry, I doubt you'll notice the slight variations.
2. Neck brush - JMHO, but absolutely needless for a pistol round, especially the .45.
3. Case trimmer - necessary for rifle ammo or high power handgun, this would gather five inches of dust into the 25th Century before you'd ever need it for the .45
RCBS = Company name . . . best single stage press made; you won't regret buying it.
OAL = overall length (of a case or cartridge - a very key dimension, especially with a semi-auto round headspacing on the case mouth.
Best bet: RCBS Rockchucker kit and auxiliary equipment kit (there's a fancy name for this, but I don't think so well at 0300). Not the top of the line, but it will meet your needs admirably until you start loading a lot of ammo. And a good reloading manual - I strongly recommend the Lyman, with the NRA as a reasonable second choice.
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain) ". . . And DemoCraps" (me)
So loading blocks are different from the plastic shell tray which divides shells when you buy a box of 50? More room between each shell?
even loading ONE cartridge really requires a couple sources of information on loads...
I have brass, a tumbler, scales, primer tools, a RCBS Rockchucker supreme with all its' goodies, and a few different reloading books, even a few carbide dies. All I should need is lead, gunpowder, and primers. Oh yeah and someone who knows what the he!! they're doing.[:D]
R/
Dave
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"- Kansas
R/
Dave
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
1. separate powder dispenser
2. separate powder measure (instead, it mounts on the press).
3. powder trickler
4. case trimmer
5. reamer/chamfer tool
6. lube pad or spray lube
7. case neck brush
8. RCBS Dies (Dillon Square Deal uses cheaper proprietary dies)
9. plastic trays
#1 and 2 are usually incorporated into one item.
#1/2, 8 and 9 are only needed if you have a single stage press.
#4-7 are really only associated for reloading bottleneck cartridges, which are mostly rifle cartridges. This is because in rifle bottleneck cases, the necks tend to stretch and you need to trim them back to the correct length, then chamfer them. The lube is needed because you don't find carbide dies for bottleneck cases (I've never seen a set). With a progressive press, plastic trays/loading blocks are needed, because the shell plate holds the case for measuring and dropping powder and automatically indexes. Plastic trays are really only handy when you're loading on a single stage press with a separate powder measure.
If you plan on reloading in any serious quantity, especially pistol calibers like .45acp, .40 s&w, .38 super, .45 colt, etc., or if you just value your time, it doesn't make ANY sense to get a single stage press when you can get a Dillon progressive instead.
quote:Originally posted by jsergovic
The following items are the basic requirements to begin reloading.
or separate RCBS bench mount Primer Tool
or, Dillon 550B if you can afford it.
(The Rockchucker Master Kit will give most all of what you'll need)
Powder dispenser
Powder measure
Funnel
Scale
Powder Trickler
RCBS Case Trimmer & Collets
Reamer/Champfer tool
Calipers
Lube Pad or Spray Lube (reccommended)
Case Neck Brush for lubing inside case mouth
RCBS Dies
Kinetic Bullet Puller
Plastic Case Trays
RCBS = ??
OAL = ???
I want to start reloading 45ACP CHEAPLY before I buy good stuff.
If anybody has some old equipment, I'd appreciate it. I'll pay shipping.
I learned plumbing (and music) on inferior tools; something that works but is not the most convenient is O.K. And then you appreciate better equipment.
Eric
All American Arms Company
Veteran Owned and Operated
Big Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems
You'd be crazy like a fox to buy a AT500 for $193.95, and eventually upgrade to a 550B.
You'd have the luxury of learning to reload single-stage on a progressive-ready machine.
If you just want to load .45's, you can get by without the scale if you want to trust a Lee dipper (cheap isn't always the right way), and if you would just go buy a set of RCBS dies; the text instructions show each step in the BASIC reloading process.
Essentially, you start with a box of empties, get rid of the old primer that's keeping you from installing the new primer, clean the case if it makes you happy, install the new primer so the carefully measured powder doesn't fall out the flash hole, carefully measure the powder, stick a small funnel in the case mouth, & pour it in.
Add a bullet of your choosing, crimp, or don't; and check the OAL with your calipers. Seat the bullet to the OAL and you're ready to do it again, starting with making some empties.
When you get tired of putzing around with the same 50 cases, performing the same 4 steps just to load 50 rounds; you can upgrade to 5or600 rounds an hour on your 550B, and start shooting more and dreading it less (especially with the .45).
If you know it all; you must have been listening.<br>WEAR EAR PROTECTION!
Loading blocks you can make (drill press and a block of wood).
As Iconoclast pointed out, some of the "kit" stuff is of value for rifle reloading only but WHEN you start doing rifle you'll need them.
Basics are Manual(s), Press, Dies and shell holder, Priming tool (press mounted or hand), Scale, Calipers and components (bullets powder and primers).
If I was starting over, I'd get the 2 RCBS kits ('chucker and accessory) to start with. What I have now is bacicly those 2 kits but built up over 20+ years as money allowed.
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
When I started reloading it was out of severe budget concerns. My Lee Challenger press was $20.00 used from my local gunshop. My scale was also used bought from the same place and cost $10.00. A set of Lee 45 acp carbide dies set me back less than $25.00 new. My priming tool was the one that came with the press. Most of my pistol dies are carbide and don't require lube. I recently switched to spray lube. Contamination isn't an issue because they are water based and when dry don't contaminate your powder. Before that I used the Lee white lube most of the time. It's also water based and doesn't cause problems after it dries. I have used the heavy grease type lubes when doing heavy forming to make cases for obsolete guns from common brass. They aren't nessasary for most reloading though. I highly recomend the Lee stuff applied with your fingers. It's a good way to start in the begining and gets you in the habit of looking closely at you brass. As for lube pads, you couldn't pay me a $1,000.00 to use one for even one round. IMO they are the most worthless idea ever thought up. You can do as good a job with your finger tips and make less mess. I gave away my case trimmer. I just found it just as cost effective to use trim dies or the Lee trimmers. They are less hassle to store as I can just put them in the die box with the dies.
I tried the Lee loaders for a while. Too slow and even worse too noisey. All that hammering drove everyone crazy. Start out with one of the cheap bench mounted Lee presses. Later when/if you graduate to something more higher end you can dedicate it to primer seating duty. You may never find the need to buy another press. I never did until recently. I'm still shopping, no hurry.
Be sure to buy a decent scale. Mine is an old Ohaus made of metal. Probably one of the first magneticly dampened ones. Best $10.00 I ever spent. I've had a couple newer ones made of plastic and sent them on thier way in short order. Also buy decent dial calipers. The reloading places will nail you $20.00+ for something made of plastic. For the same money you could buy a really good one from a retired machinist.
Woods
"I do this with plumbing fittings already...brass, copper, galvanized..."
quote: Start out with one of the cheap bench mounted Lee presses. Later when/if you graduate to something more higher end you can dedicate it to primer seating duty.
"So I can have multiple presses instesd of doing everything on a single machine? And knowing what one looks like is a good start. There's got to be an older shooter retiring from the business. I'm gonna have a talk with the "fish and Game" people before buying anything.
I don't bother reloading ammunition that I can buy cheaply. I have a
progressive press that I rarely use. Most of the time I am only loading a box or two at a time & I use a hand held press that works just fine for short runs.
I have found that 3031, bullseye & 2400 will wiil work well for allmost anything I want to load.
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=15862293
The scale is known to be troublesome, but upgrading down the road to a used RCBS 505 is not expensive.
Not sure about pricing, compair his price to Midway, Cabalias etc on the same unit.
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
What calibers? (rifle? pistol?)
How much reloading do you plan on doing per caliber? (.45 x 1000rnds/week, .223 x 100 rnds/month, etc)
Do you care about accuracy? (if so, stay away from dipper kits)
What's your budget?
p.s. - one thing I don't see mentioned in your list is a brass tumbler. This something that's really good to have.
One other point - the .45 headspaces on the case mouth. Be sure the die set you buy has a die to taper crimp the bullet; typically this will mean a four piece die set - sizer / beller / seater / crimper. You can live with the combo seater / roll crimper, but I don't recommend it. I'm sure others may disagree with me on this point, but I sincerely think you will be happier in the long run if you do this. If the slight extra cost is an issue in the beginning, you can add the fourth die later.
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain) ". . . And DemoCraps" (me)
When you say F/L size, I'm assuming you mean that your die is screwed down to your shell holder. Try only screwing it down just far enough to touch the shoulder of the case (moving the shoulder back .001-.002). This should increase your case life and reduce stretching (your now headspacing on the shoulder instead of the belt, chambers for belted cases are cut quite long).
If your hunting with this ammo you should run them thru the rifle to make sure they all cycle, for DG I wouldn't recogmend this sizing methiod but for normal hunting it works just fine.
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
A real progressive press.
quote:What calibers? (rifle? pistol?) 45ACP, .243 LATER ON
How much reloading do you plan on doing per caliber? (.45 x 1000rnds/week, .223 x 100 rnds/month, etc) 45ACP X 600 PER MONTH
Do you care about accuracy? 8's, 9's, X's @ 25 yards on '45, pie plate + w/.243 @ 100 yards, iron sites
What's your budget? Couple hundred dollars
sizer / beller / seater / crimper
sizer = straightens out the brass?
beller = ???
seater = seats primer?
crimper = seals case to bullet.
How about punching out the old primer?
If I don't tumble, what is the effect of the old powder residue in the case?
Thanks again!
1 Sizer, squeezes the brass back down to the correct OD. Included in this die is the depriming pin. On bottleneck dies there is also a neck expander built in.
2 Mouth expander (beller), puts a slight flare on the case mouth to allow the bullet to seat into the case with out buckling the case or shaving lead off the side of the bullet. Used only with streight wall cases.
3 Seater, seats the bullet to it's correct depth in the case (it's adjustable with a screw). Also roll crimps revolver bullets at the same time it seats the bullet.
4 Taper Crimp die, Used with Auto pistol cartridges, flattens out the remains of the flare (from step 2) and puts a slight taper on the front of the case which both grips the bullet and eases feeding.
Primers are seated with either a press mounted tool or a hand held tool.
Powder residue inside the case dosn't hurt anything, but it's ugly[:D]
Cutaways of rifle dies (from the RCBS webpage)
Left is a sizing die, right is a seating die
I didn't find a decent cutaway of a pistol set, sorry.
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
quote:Originally posted by jsergovic
mpolans
quote:What calibers? (rifle? pistol?) 45ACP, .243 LATER ON
How much reloading do you plan on doing per caliber? (.45 x 1000rnds/week, .223 x 100 rnds/month, etc) 45ACP X 600 PER MONTH
Do you care about accuracy? 8's, 9's, X's @ 25 yards on '45, pie plate + w/.243 @ 100 yards, iron sites
What's your budget? Couple hundred dollars
sizer / beller / seater / crimper
sizer = straightens out the brass?
beller = ???
seater = seats primer?
crimper = seals case to bullet.
How about punching out the old primer?
If I don't tumble, what is the effect of the old powder residue in the case?
Thanks again!
And people tell me I'm shootng snot ammo, and it took going up to a .45 to really understand they were right.
So a handloader can examine each load, each seat, each crimp...
quote:So a handloader can examine each load, each seat, each crimp...
Yes. Once you have a sense of what you are doing, this will become almost instinctive and doesn't consume much time at all, plus you will have a feel for the process and know what to watch / feel for and really don't need to make a detailed examination of all aspects of each round. You can feel the primer seating as part of the normal handling, see if something has moved off in the bullet seating / crimping and by holding a tray full of primed rounds with powder charges see if one or more is drastically off weight in many calibers, the .45 being a good one. If you are loading max charges you need to weigh each any way, and many do for maximum accuracy, as well.
I know I have some more spare / retired equipment on the back shelves. I'll put it together and post some more giveaways. The press is gone, but I'm pretty sure I have a powder measure, a case trimmer, and possibly a scale . . . stuff I used before I upgraded it. You or other novice reloaders will get more use from it than I will.
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain) ". . . And DemoCraps" (me)
Jim -
quote:So a handloader can examine each load, each seat, each crimp...
Yes. Once you have a sense of what you are doing, this will become almost instinctive and doesn't consume much time at all, plus you will have a feel for the process and know what to watch / feel for and really don't need to make a detailed examination of all aspects of each round. You can feel the primer seating as part of the normal handling, see if something has moved off in the bullet seating / crimping and by holding a tray full of primed rounds with powder charges see if one or more is drastically off weight in many calibers, the .45 being a good one. If you are loading max charges you need to weigh each any way, and many do for maximum accuracy, as well.
I know I have some more spare / retired equipment on the back shelves. I'll put it together and post some more giveaways. The press is gone, but I'm pretty sure I have a powder measure, a case trimmer, and possibly a scale . . . stuff I used before I upgraded it. You or other novice reloaders will get more use from it than I will.
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain) ". . . And DemoCraps" (me)
Jim- Icon is , as usual, correct. Having loaded for over thirty different calibers I can assure you every pull of the handle will have a distinct "Feel". If its not right, you will know!!!
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob