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quote:Originally posted by Rocklobster
I perceive myself as nothing. I have been trying to share knowledge gained by biblical study, beyond that gained by dozing in a pew for one hour a week, listening to someone's opinions. This lie about Jesus having been a jew is a hoax that has been perpetrated on the Christian community for years. Consider this:
Rocklobster,
I have been studying the Bible for 30 years and continue to do so. I am always open to/and need new knowledge and understanding. I make it a point not to take the word of anyone, much less some man in a pulpit, as to what I should believe. I use the Bible as the authority.
You may have tried to share your knowledge, which I do not dispute, with us but have not. All you have given us is the opinion of a man and your own opinion. The scripture quoted by the gentleman in your message, I believe are taken out of context,or in the least need more clarification as to why we should understand them as you seem to insist. Please provide the scriptural references that will help us understand your view. And understand if you are correct.
It is indisputable, to me and many others, if you use the scripture that Jesus was a Jew, he observed the Jewish festivals. He went to Jerusalem to celebrate the passover with his disciples on the night before his death, it was there that he instituted the 'New Covenant' which we benefit from.
I thought this was a discussion/dialogue that we all could learn from.
My last word.
When you wrestle a 'gator, there ain't no good end!!
I feel that I haven't wasted the last 30-odd years either, my friend. I am always trying to help my fellow Christians open their eyes to the realities that are facing us, and escape from the traditions of man that are pounded into their heads from the pulpit instead of God's word.
Didn't you read my post? The events you discuss were Hebrew observances, according to the laws of Moses. The people were Hebrews. Israelites. NOT "JEWS". So-called modern-day "jews" and the chosen Hebrew people, Israel, that God made his covenant with, have no relationship. Most (not all- some of the modern practitioners of Judaism are true Hebrews) of the self-styled "jews" have never stepped foot into Israel, neither have their ancestors. I have another C&P, very in-depth, with scriptural documentation, that will provide even more proof of what I say. I'll be more than happy to provide it, but I'll ask you to read it carefully and think!
I simply asked all that they not Mock the bible if that is unacceptable then I cannot comunicate with you .I said nothing of mocking my belifes .Just the Bible and God.
2 gun...what god are you talking about?.....what book are you talking about?.....ya know, The muslims think you are going straight to hell because of what you believe in.....whose to say they are wrong?.....
The Methodist think the Baptist are going straight to hell and vice-versa......They both think the catholics are going to hell because of how they believe......
Whose to say who is right and who is wrong?......I say to hell with all of yall....religious people are hipocrites anyway.
guess what????....when you die, you go 6 ft. under and thats the end of the story.
After 8 years of Catholic school, I always believed that Jesus was BORN to a Jewish family, but because of who He was meant to transcend the circumstances of his birth, as a symbol of God's love for humanity. Doesn't that enextricably lock Judeaism and Christianity? No offense to my Jewish neighbors...
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it that the former does not submit to hereditary predjudices, but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." - Albert E.
On my tombstone:"Keep you eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel..."the Lizard King
2 Gun: quote:Have you read the Bible? Yes, but which translation are you referring to: King James, Scofield, Moffit, New English Translation, Book of Mormon, Tanach, or Koran? Along with these, I own and have read Philo and Josephus; the Biography of God and the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
Also have read some Buddhist Sutras--have you? Particularly enjoyed the Tantric sect, BTW. [}:)][}:)]
Do you honestly belive it is (a fairy tale)?Why? [/quote]Read the bible honestly and you will have to agree it is a compilation of fairy tales, superstitutions, and demands a suspension of one's intellect and logic. All fairy tales do that same thing. [;)]
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
quote:Originally posted by Rocklobster
I feel that I haven't wasted the last 30-odd years either, my friend. I am always trying to help my fellow Christians open their eyes to the realities that are facing us, and escape from the traditions of man that are pounded into their heads from the pulpit instead of God's word.
Didn't you read my post? The events you discuss were Hebrew observances, according to the laws of Moses. The people were Hebrews. Israelites. NOT "JEWS". So-called modern-day "jews" and the chosen Hebrew people, Israel, that God made his covenant with, have no relationship. Most (not all- some of the modern practitioners of Judaism are true Hebrews) of the self-styled "jews" have never stepped foot into Israel, neither have their ancestors. I have another C&P, very in-depth, with scriptural documentation, that will provide even more proof of what I say. I'll be more than happy to provide it, but I'll ask you to read it carefully and think!
Rocklobster,
(I think this deserves an answer) From my post you should know I do not buy your statement, or the gentlemans you quote. The Hebrews were Jews as is very evident from the scriptures. If you think this mans opinion and misuse of the evidence is valid, so be it. I do not. I believe he is using selfserving logic and has a racist bend to his argument.
I do think Rocklobster, just because I do not reach the same conclusion as you does not mean I don't. Again I resent your 'slur' that I only listen to what was said from the pulpet. Perhaps you are not reading my posts carefully.
This is my last post on this thread.
When you wrestle a 'gator, there ain't no good end!!
huh? All Christians are not 'Jews'. Jews are a race. quote:Originally posted by fishermanben
Yes he was a Jew. And so are all Christians. Judaism is the Religion of the Father, and Jesus made it clear that he was not correcting any mistakes in the books. You must believe in the Old Testament in its entirety to accept the New Testement as Truth. The Blood is on all of our hands, and forgiveness is offered to everyone, that's the way I was taught; however, I am a Catholic, so I might not even be a Christian.[;)]
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it that the former does not submit to hereditary predjudices, but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." - Albert E.
On my tombstone:"Keep you eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel..."the Lizard King
rcrxs old lady: quote:Jews are a race. No, they are not. The Nazis considered them so but Jews are not a race; they are Semitic, along with the Arabs and Palestinians.[;)]
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
For those who are saying/thinking Jesus is not a Jew ... would you define "is"? Would you define "not"? Would you define "Jew"?
I think something is way off track on this posting? One can find sources that will say all kinds of things, but that does not make them true. Nor does it make a reliable source. The BEST SOURCE is the Bible, and it does not equivicate (speak out of both sides of the mouth ... two voiced ... equal voiced on both sides of this issue)! Jesus was a Jew.
Actually, there is no such thing as a "race". There are only "Clines". In a nutshell, adaptations evolve over time based upon distance from the equator & other environmental factors. Thus, you will find a certain common set of physical adaptations that are common, for example, in colder climates and in hotter climates.
New thread probably, becuase now we are getting into evolution....
Powdersmoke, I have had this discussion with several people who also did not like their picture of Jesus to be disturbed, either.
This will also be my last post on this subject.
When Pilate asked Jesus if he was "King of the Jews" Jesus' reply was "Thou sayest it". Pilate pressed him and he said "My kingdom is not of this world."
The fact exists that the in first 500 pages of the Bible, the "Torah", which the "jews" claim to have written, there is no mention of "jews". This is not an opinion.
The fact exists that in the first eleven chapters of the Bible, no one is referred to as a jew- not Moses,Adam, Seth,Noah,Abraham,Isaac,Jacob,Saul,David,or Solomon. This is not an opinion.
It is written that God changed Abram's name to Abraham (Gen.17:5) and that God changed Jacob's name to Israel (Gen. 32:28), but it is not written anywhere in the Bible that God changed the name of his chosen people Israel to "jew". This is not an opinion.
There's nothing out of context about Rev. 2:9 where Jesus, in his message to the church of Ephesus, accuses the imposters who call themselves jews.
Oh, and BTW, Hairy- no, the jews are not a race, and jews who do not have Hebrew ancestry are not Semitic, either.
Rocklobster: quote:Oh, and BTW, Hairy- no, the jews are not a race, and jews who do not have Hebrew ancestry are not Semitic, either.
I agree with you, and have made the point many times that the majority of Israelis, including the present government in Israel, the Likud, under Sharon, are not jews but Europeans. [}:)]
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
Descendants of Khazars, mostly. Not all of them. The Muslims know who they are, they have been enemies for a long, long time. Since even before "Allah" was elevated by the "prophet" Mohammad from his position as one of 350 little rock idols in the Kaaba.
Oh, and BTW-
"is" to be, to exist as
"not" used as a function word to make negative a word or group of
words.
"jew' one who's religion is Judaism; practitioner of Judaism.
andersk: quote:Actually, the word "Bible" does not appear IN the Bible.The word "bible" is translated as "Book of Myths and Other Fabulous Stories[}:)]".
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
The word "bible" is the English translation of the Greek word "biblios", meaning "book", which appears 36 times in the New Testament, KJV Bible. The Holy Book.
Rocklobster: I think you are jumping a couple of centuries. The compilation of what today is known as the bible did not occur for some centuries after the death of Jesus. Prior to that, the Torah and Tanach were written on scrolls and not on flat paper and bound. If you go to a synagogue today, you will find the Torah still on a large scroll; if honored, you will be given the task of reading to the congregation.[;)]
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
I'll have to check my concordance again ... but I do not recall the word "Bible" being in there at all. Yup, sure plenty other words are there, but I was making a point that "Bible" is not there.
I could be wrong, my memory is getting less clear.[|)]
quote:Originally posted by GhostCat
2 gun...what god are you talking about?.....what book are you talking about?.....ya know, The muslims think you are going straight to hell because of what you believe in.....whose to say they are wrong?.....
The Methodist think the Baptist are going straight to hell and vice-versa......They both think the catholics are going to hell because of how they believe......
Whose to say who is right and who is wrong?......I say to hell with all of yall....religious people are hipocrites anyway.
guess what????....when you die, you go 6 ft. under and thats the end of the story.
quote:Originally posted by GhostCat
2 gun...what god are you talking about?.....what book are you talking about?.....ya know, The muslims think you are going straight to hell because of what you believe in.....whose to say they are wrong?.....
The Methodist think the Baptist are going straight to hell and vice-versa......They both think the catholics are going to hell because of how they believe......
Whose to say who is right and who is wrong?......I say to hell with all of yall....religious people are hipocrites anyway.
guess what????....when you die, you go 6 ft. under and thats the end of the story.
Talk about a brainwashed public......phew....
GhostCat
May God have mercy on your soul! I will pray for you.[:0]
Comments
I perceive myself as nothing. I have been trying to share knowledge gained by biblical study, beyond that gained by dozing in a pew for one hour a week, listening to someone's opinions. This lie about Jesus having been a jew is a hoax that has been perpetrated on the Christian community for years. Consider this:
Rocklobster,
I have been studying the Bible for 30 years and continue to do so. I am always open to/and need new knowledge and understanding. I make it a point not to take the word of anyone, much less some man in a pulpit, as to what I should believe. I use the Bible as the authority.
You may have tried to share your knowledge, which I do not dispute, with us but have not. All you have given us is the opinion of a man and your own opinion. The scripture quoted by the gentleman in your message, I believe are taken out of context,or in the least need more clarification as to why we should understand them as you seem to insist. Please provide the scriptural references that will help us understand your view. And understand if you are correct.
It is indisputable, to me and many others, if you use the scripture that Jesus was a Jew, he observed the Jewish festivals. He went to Jerusalem to celebrate the passover with his disciples on the night before his death, it was there that he instituted the 'New Covenant' which we benefit from.
I thought this was a discussion/dialogue that we all could learn from.
My last word.
When you wrestle a 'gator, there ain't no good end!!
"Molon Labe!" Spartan General-King Leonidas
Didn't you read my post? The events you discuss were Hebrew observances, according to the laws of Moses. The people were Hebrews. Israelites. NOT "JEWS". So-called modern-day "jews" and the chosen Hebrew people, Israel, that God made his covenant with, have no relationship. Most (not all- some of the modern practitioners of Judaism are true Hebrews) of the self-styled "jews" have never stepped foot into Israel, neither have their ancestors. I have another C&P, very in-depth, with scriptural documentation, that will provide even more proof of what I say. I'll be more than happy to provide it, but I'll ask you to read it carefully and think!
Have you read the Bible?
Do you honestly belive it is (a fairy tale)?Why?
The Methodist think the Baptist are going straight to hell and vice-versa......They both think the catholics are going to hell because of how they believe......
Whose to say who is right and who is wrong?......I say to hell with all of yall....religious people are hipocrites anyway.
guess what????....when you die, you go 6 ft. under and thats the end of the story.
Talk about a brainwashed public......phew....
GhostCat
Hairy, they saw what happend to claimants to the throne.
He Dog
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it that the former does not submit to hereditary predjudices, but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." - Albert E.
On my tombstone:"Keep you eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel..."the Lizard King
Also have read some Buddhist Sutras--have you? Particularly enjoyed the Tantric sect, BTW. [}:)][}:)]
Do you honestly belive it is (a fairy tale)?Why? [/quote]Read the bible honestly and you will have to agree it is a compilation of fairy tales, superstitutions, and demands a suspension of one's intellect and logic. All fairy tales do that same thing. [;)]
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
I feel that I haven't wasted the last 30-odd years either, my friend. I am always trying to help my fellow Christians open their eyes to the realities that are facing us, and escape from the traditions of man that are pounded into their heads from the pulpit instead of God's word.
Didn't you read my post? The events you discuss were Hebrew observances, according to the laws of Moses. The people were Hebrews. Israelites. NOT "JEWS". So-called modern-day "jews" and the chosen Hebrew people, Israel, that God made his covenant with, have no relationship. Most (not all- some of the modern practitioners of Judaism are true Hebrews) of the self-styled "jews" have never stepped foot into Israel, neither have their ancestors. I have another C&P, very in-depth, with scriptural documentation, that will provide even more proof of what I say. I'll be more than happy to provide it, but I'll ask you to read it carefully and think!
Rocklobster,
(I think this deserves an answer) From my post you should know I do not buy your statement, or the gentlemans you quote. The Hebrews were Jews as is very evident from the scriptures. If you think this mans opinion and misuse of the evidence is valid, so be it. I do not. I believe he is using selfserving logic and has a racist bend to his argument.
I do think Rocklobster, just because I do not reach the same conclusion as you does not mean I don't. Again I resent your 'slur' that I only listen to what was said from the pulpet. Perhaps you are not reading my posts carefully.
This is my last post on this thread.
When you wrestle a 'gator, there ain't no good end!!
"Molon Labe!" Spartan General-King Leonidas
Yes he was a Jew. And so are all Christians. Judaism is the Religion of the Father, and Jesus made it clear that he was not correcting any mistakes in the books. You must believe in the Old Testament in its entirety to accept the New Testement as Truth. The Blood is on all of our hands, and forgiveness is offered to everyone, that's the way I was taught; however, I am a Catholic, so I might not even be a Christian.[;)]
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it that the former does not submit to hereditary predjudices, but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." - Albert E.
On my tombstone:"Keep you eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel..."the Lizard King
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
I think something is way off track on this posting? One can find sources that will say all kinds of things, but that does not make them true. Nor does it make a reliable source. The BEST SOURCE is the Bible, and it does not equivicate (speak out of both sides of the mouth ... two voiced ... equal voiced on both sides of this issue)! Jesus was a Jew.
IT "S better to die by fire then serve by force
It's not gun control. It's personal defense elimination. They only want to control ours.
i DIDN'T KNOW THERE WERE SO MANY THEOLOGIANS ON THE FORUM.[:D]
None are so dangerious, or amusing as the amatuers who claim primacey
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
i DIDN'T KNOW THERE WERE SO MANY THEOLOGIANS ON THE FORUM.[:D]
None are so dangerious, or amusing as the amatuers who claim primacey
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
New thread probably, becuase now we are getting into evolution....
This will also be my last post on this subject.
When Pilate asked Jesus if he was "King of the Jews" Jesus' reply was "Thou sayest it". Pilate pressed him and he said "My kingdom is not of this world."
The fact exists that the in first 500 pages of the Bible, the "Torah", which the "jews" claim to have written, there is no mention of "jews". This is not an opinion.
The fact exists that in the first eleven chapters of the Bible, no one is referred to as a jew- not Moses,Adam, Seth,Noah,Abraham,Isaac,Jacob,Saul,David,or Solomon. This is not an opinion.
It is written that God changed Abram's name to Abraham (Gen.17:5) and that God changed Jacob's name to Israel (Gen. 32:28), but it is not written anywhere in the Bible that God changed the name of his chosen people Israel to "jew". This is not an opinion.
There's nothing out of context about Rev. 2:9 where Jesus, in his message to the church of Ephesus, accuses the imposters who call themselves jews.
Oh, and BTW, Hairy- no, the jews are not a race, and jews who do not have Hebrew ancestry are not Semitic, either.
I agree with you, and have made the point many times that the majority of Israelis, including the present government in Israel, the Likud, under Sharon, are not jews but Europeans. [}:)]
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
Oh, and BTW-
"is" to be, to exist as
"not" used as a function word to make negative a word or group of
words.
"jew' one who's religion is Judaism; practitioner of Judaism.
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
I could be wrong, my memory is getting less clear.[|)]
2 gun...what god are you talking about?.....what book are you talking about?.....ya know, The muslims think you are going straight to hell because of what you believe in.....whose to say they are wrong?.....
The Methodist think the Baptist are going straight to hell and vice-versa......They both think the catholics are going to hell because of how they believe......
Whose to say who is right and who is wrong?......I say to hell with all of yall....religious people are hipocrites anyway.
guess what????....when you die, you go 6 ft. under and thats the end of the story.
Talk about a brainwashed public......phew....
GhostCat
2 gun...what god are you talking about?.....what book are you talking about?.....ya know, The muslims think you are going straight to hell because of what you believe in.....whose to say they are wrong?.....
The Methodist think the Baptist are going straight to hell and vice-versa......They both think the catholics are going to hell because of how they believe......
Whose to say who is right and who is wrong?......I say to hell with all of yall....religious people are hipocrites anyway.
guess what????....when you die, you go 6 ft. under and thats the end of the story.
Talk about a brainwashed public......phew....
GhostCat
May God have mercy on your soul! I will pray for you.[:0]