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quote:Originally posted by Lightning
It's a sad day when tobacco is considered contraband.
Why? Jail is INCARCERATION for criminals and Nar do Well's for breaking the laws of society. If you want to smoke and be free then stay the hell out of jail.
quote:Originally posted by bhale187
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
What he did was a FELONY folks. You people screaming lawsuit have no earthly idea what you are talking about.
..... or is bringing tobacco/contraband into a jail a felony in Texas? Just curious
Yep...
Tex. Penal Code ? 38.11 (2007)
? 38.11. Prohibited Substances and Items in Adult or Juvenile Correctional or Detention Facility or on Property of Texas Department of Criminal Justice or Texas Youth Commission
(a) A person commits an offense if the person provides:
(1) an alcoholic beverage, controlled substance, or dangerous drug to an inmate of a correctional facility or to a person in the custody of a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles, except on the prescription of a physician or practitioner, as defined in Section 551.003, Occupations Code;
(2) a deadly weapon to an inmate of a correctional facility or to a person in the custody of a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles;
(3) a cellular telephone or other wireless communications device or a component of one of those devices, cigarette, tobacco product, or money to an inmate of a correctional facility operated by or under contract with the Texas Department of Criminal Justice or to a person in the custody of a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles, except for money that is provided for the benefit of the juvenile in accordance with facility rules;
(4) a cellular telephone or money to a person confined in a local jail regulated by the Commission on Jail Standards; or
(5) a cigarette or tobacco product to a person confined in a local jail regulated by the Commission on Jail Standards and in providing the cigarette or tobacco product the person violates a rule or regulation adopted by the sheriff or jail administrator that:
(A) prohibits the possession of a cigarette or tobacco product by an inmate confined in the jail; or
(B) places restrictions on:
(i) the possession of a cigarette or tobacco product by an inmate confined in the jail; or
(ii) the manner in which a cigarette or tobacco product may be provided to an inmate confined in the jail.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person takes an alcoholic beverage, controlled substance, or dangerous drug into a correctional facility or a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles, except for delivery to a facility warehouse, pharmacy, or physician.
(c) A person commits an offense if the person takes a controlled substance or dangerous drug on property owned, used, or controlled by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, the Texas Youth Commission, or a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles, except for delivery to a warehouse, pharmacy, or physician on property owned, used, or controlled by the department, the commission, or the facility.
(d) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) possesses a controlled substance or dangerous drug while:
(A) on property owned, used, or controlled by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, the Texas Youth Commission, or a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles; or
(B) in a correctional facility or a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles; or
(2) possesses a deadly weapon while in a correctional facility or in a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles.
(e) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under Subsection (d)(1) of this section that the person possessed the controlled substance or dangerous drug pursuant to a prescription issued by a practitioner or while delivering the substance or drug to a warehouse, pharmacy, or physician on property owned, used, or controlled by the department, the Texas Youth Commission, or by the operator of a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles. It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under Subsection (d)(2) of this section that the person possessing the deadly weapon is a peace officer or is an officer or employee of the correctional facility authorized to possess the deadly weapon while on duty or traveling to or from the person's place of assignment.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Practitioner" has the meaning assigned by Section 481.002, Health and Safety Code.
(2) "Prescription" has the meaning assigned by Section 481.002, Health and Safety Code.
(3) "Cigarette" has the meaning assigned by Section 154.001, Tax Code.
(4) "Tobacco product" has the meaning assigned by Section 155.001, Tax Code.
(5) "Secure correctional facility" and "secure detention facility" have the meanings assigned by Section 51.02, Family Code.
(g) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree.
(h) Notwithstanding Section 15.01(d), if a person commits the offense of criminal attempt to commit an offense under Subsection (a) or (b), the offense committed under Section 15.01 is a felony of the third degree.
(i) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under Subsection (b) that the actor:
(1) is a duly authorized member of the clergy with rights and privileges granted by an ordaining authority that includes administration of a religious ritual or ceremony requiring the presence or consumption of an alcoholic beverage; and
(2) takes four ounces or less of an alcoholic beverage into the correctional facility or the secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles and personally consumes all of the alcoholic beverage or departs from the facility with any portion of the beverage not consumed.
(j) A person commits an offense if the person while an inmate of a correctional facility operated by or under contract with the Texas Department of Criminal Justice or while in the custody of a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles possesses a cellular telephone or other wireless communications device or a component of one of those devices.
I've have quite a few friends that work in the state prison and they all know the rules. you get cought bringing contraband in and you'll be just lucky if you are just fired
Unfortunately I've been in your position too many times over the years. One was an 18 year veteran, with two young kids, who chose to smuggle in porn. No idea of what the guy was thinking about when he did it.
Over the last 15 years as a supervisor, I've sent over a half dozen people out the door, never to return. It's never an easy thing to do, but it is necessary from time to time.
In general Sheriff's Offices are much quicker to fire people than Police Departments are. Police Chiefs don't have to get re-elected.
quote:Originally posted by westernMDhunter
Allen, I don't know exactly what they bring but a carton of cigs here would bring somewhere very close to $400.00. I won't get into specifics but these guy's have alot of time to develop better strategy to get contraband into the prison.
I don't get it. Why pay so much for something you can't use? As soon as you light up, aren't you busted? Joe
No, they find ways to smoke them and not be seen, thats for sure. It is all over the local news here, so there is no right to privacy or telling the story on a public forum, so no threat of a law suit as whaturare talked about. We contract with federal inmates, I have learned that if someone smuggles something to a fed, they will charge them federally. A couple of gals worked for the Sheriff up in Texarkana a couple of years ago and brought in a cell phone to a murderin puke, they got caught and got some club med fed time out of it.
When they have cigarettes, that means that the caveman in them can start fires as well. Cigarettes cause everything to be yellow as well and we have to paint it a lot more I'm sure.
No union in Texas, as someone said, at will employee. Sheriff is elected, he has the obligation to the taxpayer to do the right thing.
I can't imagine working for a union or an organization that would stand up for me if I broke the law? Am I missing something? That just does not sound right.
No union in Texas, as someone said, at will employee. Sheriff is elected, he has the obligation to the taxpayer to do the right thing.
I can't imagine working for a union or an organization that would stand up for me if I broke the law? Am I missing something? That just does not sound right.
In Illinois it is not illegal to bring tobacco into a jail because it is not on the list of 'contraband' within the law. It could be considered official misconduct, but prosecutors in this area have been unwilling to try that theory. Inmates can't have tobacco in a jail (administrative code-not criminal law), and no one can smoke in jail (petty offense).
That being said, the FOP routinely 'stands up' for members accused of crimes while on duty. Remember that little phrase innocent until proven guilty?
quote:Originally posted by Beeramid
quote:Originally posted by owen219
You are a jerk for firing this 60 year old man and ruining his life over a can of snuff. You could have warned him at least and I am sure he would have yielded to the warning. He probably looked at it as an act of kindness to someone in dire frustration. Older people realize kindness for fellow man. Younger people in authority are over zealous and without wisdom. No flexability = no proper judgement, no mercy, no tolerance. You of course have never made an exception, mistake or done the first thing wrong in your life so it's ok for you to jump on this like a raging lion on this old guy. I am sure you have many alocates from people just like you. I hope you get a comendation that you can put on the wall to look at and remind you of the 60 year old life you destroyed over this grand rule infraction. But you were just doing your job, right? I am sure it helps to bragg about it on a public forum.
This "rule infraction" = breakin the law, did you miss the part about him being arrested, or just fly off the handle? That moron ruined his own career by doin what he did. You have never worked this field so of course you don't understand.
This "rule infraction" = breakin the law, did you miss the part about him being arrested...
This is why LEOs garner so little respect from the general public. They break rules and laws every day in impunity, we all see it, but almost never are they dealt with. To take the extreme measure of terminating an employee for faltering may be refreshing, but to do so over snuff appears absurd.
Does Illinois (and CHicago) have more of a crime problem than Texas?
I'll guess...YES!
I remember when a county sheriff I know fired a deputy when he got arrested for being a male prostitutes in Chicago. Yeah he had a good laugh at firing that guy, but the deputy's wife still supported him.
Having sex with an inmate through the slot in the door is another good way to get fired.
I feel so much safer now knowing that those mean criminals can't have a legal substance in their possession. Nothing scares me more than a convict smoking a cigarette. I sure am glad they passed a law prohibiting such a deadly practice.
I have a relative who works at the Fed prison here. He says that the inmates have nothing but time to figure out any angle about anything they think they want or need. The staff has to be always on the defensive, and pay attention to even the slightest thing that seems out of the ordinary.
quote:Originally posted by coledigger4
I feel so much safer now knowing that those mean criminals can't have a legal substance in their possession. Nothing scares me more than a convict smoking a cigarette. I sure am glad they passed a law prohibiting such a deadly practice.
Guns are legal also. Should we give those to the "criminals" in jail? Knives? How about porn? It's legal. Should we let the rapists have porn? Alcohol is legal, should they be allowed alcohol? Etc...
Do you also find issue with them not having cell phones?
Cigarettes (tobacco) are contraband, in part, because:
1. Fire hazard
2. They are used as a currency, and violence is common over "tobacco"
3. Tobacco causes health problems, and guess who pays for inmate's health problems?
4. Those that wish to avoid smoke have a hard time doing so (guards and other inmates)
5. Maintenance issues (guess who pays for that?)
Before you spout off, think. Just a little. No, a little more...there ya go![;)]
Come on down cubs... You have to wear one of our hats though, no cubs hat at work!
Excellent points matty, I wonder if they had that same conversation on the floor of the capital building in most every state when they passed similar laws?
I guess your darned if you do, darned if you don't sometimes.
...BEFORE a few of you start/ask...my computer died back in May...just got time to get another and set up again last night; that, is where Ive been.
...Oh well, the guy knew the rules/law, or should have after 15 years.
The only thing sad about the situation is that the guy was stupid enough to trade his job and reputation to break the law for a can of Skoal or Cope.
I guess to the Catholics here, laws are similiar to sins??...Big sin little sin...Big infractions of the law...little infractions...and the "little" infractions should just be over looked...sounds like the Liberal mind think to me...[;)]
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
quote:Originally posted by coledigger4
I feel so much safer now knowing that those mean criminals can't have a legal substance in their possession. Nothing scares me more than a convict smoking a cigarette. I sure am glad they passed a law prohibiting such a deadly practice.
Guns are legal also. Should we give those to the "criminals" in jail? Knives? How about porn? It's legal. Should we let the rapists have porn? Alcohol is legal, should they be allowed alcohol? Etc...
Do you also find issue with them not having cell phones?
Cigarettes (tobacco) are contraband, in part, because:
1. Fire hazard
2. They are used as a currency, and violence is common over "tobacco"
3. Tobacco causes health problems, and guess who pays for inmate's health problems?
4. Those that wish to avoid smoke have a hard time doing so (guards and other inmates)
5. Maintenance issues (guess who pays for that?)
Before you spout off, think. Just a little. No, a little more...there ya go![;)]
Hope you feel safer now.
Actually it's more simple than that. If you are smuggling contraband to the inmates you have switched sides and belong on the other side of the bars.
Sarge, In Texas is is a 3rd degree felony, 2-10 years, and or 10,000 fine, I think that is the punishment range. Either that or something close. Since he has no previous problems with the law he will probably get a probated sentence (if he gets 5 years in prison, they probate it, he is on probation with a felony conviction and could serve no jail time.) They might even reduce it to a misdemeanor. Depends on a lot of things, if he pleas, trial by judge, a trial by jury. Many factors play into all of that. There is almost 99% chance that he won't go to prison, unless he does not meet with the terms of his probation.
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
I guess I am wondering what this former CO is looking at for punishment for his crime? Can anyone tell me?
An individual convicted of a felony of the third degree may be punished by imprisonment in the institutional division of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice for any term of not more than 10 years nor less than two years. In addition to imprisonment, an individual convicted of a felony of the third degree may be punished by a fine not to exceed $10,000 [Pen. C. ? 12.34].
Of course, since his record is likely clean, he could get probation or possibly deferred adjudication. Any plea offer will be at the whim of the DA, acceptance or rejection of said plea at the whim of the judge...
TXLAWDOG could give you some insight on the attitude of the judge and DA in his county.
I'm sure there are good reasons for having unions, I just don't know of any.
Any person or group of people that cover up a crime for someone else is just as guilty in my book. Unions included. Of course, like you mentioned, the laws seem different in Illinois concerning bringing tobacco into a jail setting. I would imagine that behavior is plum out of control in that setting as well. Thats why I don't like in Chicago any longer.
quote:Originally posted by txlawdog
Sarge, In Texas is is a 3rd degree felony, 2-10 years, and or 10,000 fine, I think that is the punishment range. Either that or something close. Since he has no previous problems with the law he will probably get a probated sentence (if he gets 5 years in prison, they probate it, he is on probation with a felony conviction and could serve no jail time.) They might even reduce it to a misdemeanor. Depends on a lot of things, if he pleas, trial by judge, a trial by jury. Many factors play into all of that. There is almost 99% chance that he won't go to prison, unless he does not meet with the terms of his probation.
I was typing my answer as you posted yours, so sorry for the repetition. You are absolutely correct, though I am not sure what the misdemeanor would be...
Obviously, Tobacco is listed as contraband. He is innocent until proven guilty. He provided probable cause when he cooberated the witnesses testimony by having the snuff in his pocket. Innocent till proven guilty? I don't decide that, the judge and the jury does.
I am glad we are not union, I'm sure they have done good things for workers in the past. I don't need a group to stand up in front of me, I can answer for myself. Protection of rights or covering it up? I have never been in a union, maybe this is why I say this, but I think they have done more harm than good.
I'm not sure if they would, they might not reduce it. I would imagine that given his age and length of service would play a role into the length of time that they offer. I would think it would be on the lower end. He is not a bad guy, he just made several poor decisions.
quote:Originally posted by txlawdog
I'm not sure if they would, they might not reduce it. I would imagine that given his age and length of service would play a role into the length of time that they offer. I would think it would be on the lower end. He is not a bad guy, he just made several poor decisions.
If the charge sticks, I'll bet he gets 5-7 deferred, and a fine.
He gave a written confession, three other witnesses said that he had delivered it to them. Had snuff in his pocket within the secure perimeter. I'm thinking they will offer 5. I think that would be about normal for their range for that level and circumstances.
Aside from right, wrong, or what the law says about the incident in and of itself; in my opinion it's not a good idea for the involved manager/supervisor to post employment actions on an internet forum for anyone and everyone to see as well as case information where incarceration might be involved. This can be viewed by litigators and litigants and can be construed or used in a myriad of ways. I don't know about your agency, but in the private sector employment actions of this type are considered confidential matters that are not to be discussed openly and casually by the participants (managers, supervisors, etc) for legal reasons and a manager/supervisor that does this type of thing might also be looking for new employment.
If you can't feel the music; it's only pink noise!
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
quote:Originally posted by coledigger4
I feel so much safer now knowing that those mean criminals can't have a legal substance in their possession. Nothing scares me more than a convict smoking a cigarette. I sure am glad they passed a law prohibiting such a deadly practice.
Guns are legal also. Should we give those to the "criminals" in jail? Knives? How about porn? It's legal. Should we let the rapists have porn? Alcohol is legal, should they be allowed alcohol? Etc...
Do you also find issue with them not having cell phones?
Cigarettes (tobacco) are contraband, in part, because:
1. Fire hazard
2. They are used as a currency, and violence is common over "tobacco"
3. Tobacco causes health problems, and guess who pays for inmate's health problems?
4. Those that wish to avoid smoke have a hard time doing so (guards and other inmates)
5. Maintenance issues (guess who pays for that?)
Before you spout off, think. Just a little. No, a little more...there ya go![;)]
Hope you feel safer now.
Point well made. I haven't had any experience with prisons and hope not to. I didn't realize that tobacco was such a powerful bargaining tool behind bars. The other posts made sense to me. Sorry for "spouting off" and "not thinking"!
Well atleast you weren't the first to do it. Inmates are a bunch of hacks for the most part, they don't deserve the luxuries of the free world. Besides they can make their own smokes out of banana peels(rollin paper from toilet paper wrapper), and hooch if they want to drink at a bar.
WOW! 5 years in prison for brining tobacco in a Jail. No wonder our prisons are over crowded.[V]
txlawdog, question for ya
-Hyothetically, had he denied it, and the only evidence against him was the statements of 3 inmates, would you still have fired him?
Plenty of employers would. You've been around long enough to know criminals lie just to cause trouble for the jerk that put them in jail or the CO who was not nice to them behind bars. That's the reason for the union, and that's the reason unions stand up for employees even when they've been accused of a crime.
Hypothetically, I think your right, the merits of the case would have been much different.
I have shared much less information than was posted on the internet in the local newspaper or on the news. I guess I could have just posted the story and said, "What a crazy world we live in," and gotten the same responses. Nevertheless, it still spurred some great conversation and posts.
quote:Originally posted by txlawdog
Hypothetically, I think your right, the merits of the case would have been much different.
I have shared much less information than was posted on the internet in the local newspaper or on the news. I guess I could have just posted the story and said, "What a crazy world we live in," and gotten the same responses. Nevertheless, it still spurred some great conversation and posts.
Yea, anything about unions, cops, or inmates is guarenteed to get some heated conversations, and you got all 3 in one post [:p]
Well, working for a public co. (Dick's Sporting Goods) at 62 yrs old , after 18 months of 7am humping freight and nights and weekends, I was fired for "conflict of interest" because I have a FFL since 1974, listed in the phone book, and the manager of the store knew this when I was hired. BTW, I signed more paper work than when I bought a house when I was hired. If they want you gone , you're gone , in spite of the fact I do internet sales, used guns , and special orders only, which Dick's does not do.
So, too bad he broke the rules; Adios.
I didn't, but I'm gone any way.
Spent 2 hrs appraising a collection today for a granny, and made $100.00, but Dick's doesn't need knowledge, as a lot of you smart shoppers know.
my $.02
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than to have a frontal lobotomy"
quote:Originally posted by chappsyny
I hope they send him to a different prison.
They would not house anyone like that in that fashion. Not at the same place they worked or the place where someone might recognize them. I think it is common for a that if a police officer goes to prison they will separate him from everyone else.
I think some might have misread some information...
I don't think in this case that he will go to prison. Just like in all cases, its very rare that a first offense get a jail sentence. They almost all the time get probation first and are given attempts to show the rest of the world that they can do the right thing again and are still a productive member of society.
Comments
What he did was a FELONY folks. You people screaming lawsuit have no earthly idea what you are talking about.
because it was official misconduct, or is bringing tobacco/contraband into a jail a felony in Texas? Just curious
It's a sad day when tobacco is considered contraband.
Cry me a river, is it really a sad day when an inmate is denied a luxury that free people enjoy?
It's a sad day when tobacco is considered contraband.
Why? Jail is INCARCERATION for criminals and Nar do Well's for breaking the laws of society. If you want to smoke and be free then stay the hell out of jail.
quote:Originally posted by mateomasfeo
What he did was a FELONY folks. You people screaming lawsuit have no earthly idea what you are talking about.
..... or is bringing tobacco/contraband into a jail a felony in Texas? Just curious
Yep...
Tex. Penal Code ? 38.11 (2007)
? 38.11. Prohibited Substances and Items in Adult or Juvenile Correctional or Detention Facility or on Property of Texas Department of Criminal Justice or Texas Youth Commission
(a) A person commits an offense if the person provides:
(1) an alcoholic beverage, controlled substance, or dangerous drug to an inmate of a correctional facility or to a person in the custody of a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles, except on the prescription of a physician or practitioner, as defined in Section 551.003, Occupations Code;
(2) a deadly weapon to an inmate of a correctional facility or to a person in the custody of a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles;
(3) a cellular telephone or other wireless communications device or a component of one of those devices, cigarette, tobacco product, or money to an inmate of a correctional facility operated by or under contract with the Texas Department of Criminal Justice or to a person in the custody of a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles, except for money that is provided for the benefit of the juvenile in accordance with facility rules;
(4) a cellular telephone or money to a person confined in a local jail regulated by the Commission on Jail Standards; or
(5) a cigarette or tobacco product to a person confined in a local jail regulated by the Commission on Jail Standards and in providing the cigarette or tobacco product the person violates a rule or regulation adopted by the sheriff or jail administrator that:
(A) prohibits the possession of a cigarette or tobacco product by an inmate confined in the jail; or
(B) places restrictions on:
(i) the possession of a cigarette or tobacco product by an inmate confined in the jail; or
(ii) the manner in which a cigarette or tobacco product may be provided to an inmate confined in the jail.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person takes an alcoholic beverage, controlled substance, or dangerous drug into a correctional facility or a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles, except for delivery to a facility warehouse, pharmacy, or physician.
(c) A person commits an offense if the person takes a controlled substance or dangerous drug on property owned, used, or controlled by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, the Texas Youth Commission, or a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles, except for delivery to a warehouse, pharmacy, or physician on property owned, used, or controlled by the department, the commission, or the facility.
(d) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) possesses a controlled substance or dangerous drug while:
(A) on property owned, used, or controlled by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, the Texas Youth Commission, or a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles; or
(B) in a correctional facility or a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles; or
(2) possesses a deadly weapon while in a correctional facility or in a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles.
(e) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under Subsection (d)(1) of this section that the person possessed the controlled substance or dangerous drug pursuant to a prescription issued by a practitioner or while delivering the substance or drug to a warehouse, pharmacy, or physician on property owned, used, or controlled by the department, the Texas Youth Commission, or by the operator of a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles. It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under Subsection (d)(2) of this section that the person possessing the deadly weapon is a peace officer or is an officer or employee of the correctional facility authorized to possess the deadly weapon while on duty or traveling to or from the person's place of assignment.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Practitioner" has the meaning assigned by Section 481.002, Health and Safety Code.
(2) "Prescription" has the meaning assigned by Section 481.002, Health and Safety Code.
(3) "Cigarette" has the meaning assigned by Section 154.001, Tax Code.
(4) "Tobacco product" has the meaning assigned by Section 155.001, Tax Code.
(5) "Secure correctional facility" and "secure detention facility" have the meanings assigned by Section 51.02, Family Code.
(g) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree.
(h) Notwithstanding Section 15.01(d), if a person commits the offense of criminal attempt to commit an offense under Subsection (a) or (b), the offense committed under Section 15.01 is a felony of the third degree.
(i) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under Subsection (b) that the actor:
(1) is a duly authorized member of the clergy with rights and privileges granted by an ordaining authority that includes administration of a religious ritual or ceremony requiring the presence or consumption of an alcoholic beverage; and
(2) takes four ounces or less of an alcoholic beverage into the correctional facility or the secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles and personally consumes all of the alcoholic beverage or departs from the facility with any portion of the beverage not consumed.
(j) A person commits an offense if the person while an inmate of a correctional facility operated by or under contract with the Texas Department of Criminal Justice or while in the custody of a secure correctional facility or secure detention facility for juveniles possesses a cellular telephone or other wireless communications device or a component of one of those devices.
Over the last 15 years as a supervisor, I've sent over a half dozen people out the door, never to return. It's never an easy thing to do, but it is necessary from time to time.
In general Sheriff's Offices are much quicker to fire people than Police Departments are. Police Chiefs don't have to get re-elected.
Allen, I don't know exactly what they bring but a carton of cigs here would bring somewhere very close to $400.00. I won't get into specifics but these guy's have alot of time to develop better strategy to get contraband into the prison.
I don't get it. Why pay so much for something you can't use? As soon as you light up, aren't you busted? Joe
When they have cigarettes, that means that the caveman in them can start fires as well. Cigarettes cause everything to be yellow as well and we have to paint it a lot more I'm sure.
No union in Texas, as someone said, at will employee. Sheriff is elected, he has the obligation to the taxpayer to do the right thing.
I can't imagine working for a union or an organization that would stand up for me if I broke the law? Am I missing something? That just does not sound right.
No union in Texas, as someone said, at will employee. Sheriff is elected, he has the obligation to the taxpayer to do the right thing.
I can't imagine working for a union or an organization that would stand up for me if I broke the law? Am I missing something? That just does not sound right.
In Illinois it is not illegal to bring tobacco into a jail because it is not on the list of 'contraband' within the law. It could be considered official misconduct, but prosecutors in this area have been unwilling to try that theory. Inmates can't have tobacco in a jail (administrative code-not criminal law), and no one can smoke in jail (petty offense).
That being said, the FOP routinely 'stands up' for members accused of crimes while on duty. Remember that little phrase innocent until proven guilty?
quote:Originally posted by owen219
You are a jerk for firing this 60 year old man and ruining his life over a can of snuff. You could have warned him at least and I am sure he would have yielded to the warning. He probably looked at it as an act of kindness to someone in dire frustration. Older people realize kindness for fellow man. Younger people in authority are over zealous and without wisdom. No flexability = no proper judgement, no mercy, no tolerance. You of course have never made an exception, mistake or done the first thing wrong in your life so it's ok for you to jump on this like a raging lion on this old guy. I am sure you have many alocates from people just like you. I hope you get a comendation that you can put on the wall to look at and remind you of the 60 year old life you destroyed over this grand rule infraction. But you were just doing your job, right? I am sure it helps to bragg about it on a public forum.
This "rule infraction" = breakin the law, did you miss the part about him being arrested, or just fly off the handle? That moron ruined his own career by doin what he did. You have never worked this field so of course you don't understand.
This "rule infraction" = breakin the law, did you miss the part about him being arrested...
This is why LEOs garner so little respect from the general public. They break rules and laws every day in impunity, we all see it, but almost never are they dealt with. To take the extreme measure of terminating an employee for faltering may be refreshing, but to do so over snuff appears absurd.
Does Illinois (and CHicago) have more of a crime problem than Texas?
I'll guess...YES!
I remember when a county sheriff I know fired a deputy when he got arrested for being a male prostitutes in Chicago. Yeah he had a good laugh at firing that guy, but the deputy's wife still supported him.
Having sex with an inmate through the slot in the door is another good way to get fired.
I feel so much safer now knowing that those mean criminals can't have a legal substance in their possession. Nothing scares me more than a convict smoking a cigarette. I sure am glad they passed a law prohibiting such a deadly practice.
Guns are legal also. Should we give those to the "criminals" in jail? Knives? How about porn? It's legal. Should we let the rapists have porn? Alcohol is legal, should they be allowed alcohol? Etc...
Do you also find issue with them not having cell phones?
Cigarettes (tobacco) are contraband, in part, because:
1. Fire hazard
2. They are used as a currency, and violence is common over "tobacco"
3. Tobacco causes health problems, and guess who pays for inmate's health problems?
4. Those that wish to avoid smoke have a hard time doing so (guards and other inmates)
5. Maintenance issues (guess who pays for that?)
Before you spout off, think. Just a little. No, a little more...there ya go![;)]
Hope you feel safer now.
That means you have room for me on your force!?!
Excellent points matty, I wonder if they had that same conversation on the floor of the capital building in most every state when they passed similar laws?
I guess your darned if you do, darned if you don't sometimes.
...Oh well, the guy knew the rules/law, or should have after 15 years.
The only thing sad about the situation is that the guy was stupid enough to trade his job and reputation to break the law for a can of Skoal or Cope.
I guess to the Catholics here, laws are similiar to sins??...Big sin little sin...Big infractions of the law...little infractions...and the "little" infractions should just be over looked...sounds like the Liberal mind think to me...[;)]
quote:Originally posted by coledigger4
I feel so much safer now knowing that those mean criminals can't have a legal substance in their possession. Nothing scares me more than a convict smoking a cigarette. I sure am glad they passed a law prohibiting such a deadly practice.
Guns are legal also. Should we give those to the "criminals" in jail? Knives? How about porn? It's legal. Should we let the rapists have porn? Alcohol is legal, should they be allowed alcohol? Etc...
Do you also find issue with them not having cell phones?
Cigarettes (tobacco) are contraband, in part, because:
1. Fire hazard
2. They are used as a currency, and violence is common over "tobacco"
3. Tobacco causes health problems, and guess who pays for inmate's health problems?
4. Those that wish to avoid smoke have a hard time doing so (guards and other inmates)
5. Maintenance issues (guess who pays for that?)
Before you spout off, think. Just a little. No, a little more...there ya go![;)]
Hope you feel safer now.
Actually it's more simple than that. If you are smuggling contraband to the inmates you have switched sides and belong on the other side of the bars.
I guess I am wondering what this former CO is looking at for punishment for his crime? Can anyone tell me?
An individual convicted of a felony of the third degree may be punished by imprisonment in the institutional division of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice for any term of not more than 10 years nor less than two years. In addition to imprisonment, an individual convicted of a felony of the third degree may be punished by a fine not to exceed $10,000 [Pen. C. ? 12.34].
Of course, since his record is likely clean, he could get probation or possibly deferred adjudication. Any plea offer will be at the whim of the DA, acceptance or rejection of said plea at the whim of the judge...
TXLAWDOG could give you some insight on the attitude of the judge and DA in his county.
Any person or group of people that cover up a crime for someone else is just as guilty in my book. Unions included. Of course, like you mentioned, the laws seem different in Illinois concerning bringing tobacco into a jail setting. I would imagine that behavior is plum out of control in that setting as well. Thats why I don't like in Chicago any longer.
Sarge, In Texas is is a 3rd degree felony, 2-10 years, and or 10,000 fine, I think that is the punishment range. Either that or something close. Since he has no previous problems with the law he will probably get a probated sentence (if he gets 5 years in prison, they probate it, he is on probation with a felony conviction and could serve no jail time.) They might even reduce it to a misdemeanor. Depends on a lot of things, if he pleas, trial by judge, a trial by jury. Many factors play into all of that. There is almost 99% chance that he won't go to prison, unless he does not meet with the terms of his probation.
I was typing my answer as you posted yours, so sorry for the repetition. You are absolutely correct, though I am not sure what the misdemeanor would be...
I am glad we are not union, I'm sure they have done good things for workers in the past. I don't need a group to stand up in front of me, I can answer for myself. Protection of rights or covering it up? I have never been in a union, maybe this is why I say this, but I think they have done more harm than good.
I'm not sure if they would, they might not reduce it. I would imagine that given his age and length of service would play a role into the length of time that they offer. I would think it would be on the lower end. He is not a bad guy, he just made several poor decisions.
If the charge sticks, I'll bet he gets 5-7 deferred, and a fine.
Keep us posted...
I will keep it posted.
If you can't feel the music; it's only pink noise!
quote:Originally posted by coledigger4
I feel so much safer now knowing that those mean criminals can't have a legal substance in their possession. Nothing scares me more than a convict smoking a cigarette. I sure am glad they passed a law prohibiting such a deadly practice.
Guns are legal also. Should we give those to the "criminals" in jail? Knives? How about porn? It's legal. Should we let the rapists have porn? Alcohol is legal, should they be allowed alcohol? Etc...
Do you also find issue with them not having cell phones?
Cigarettes (tobacco) are contraband, in part, because:
1. Fire hazard
2. They are used as a currency, and violence is common over "tobacco"
3. Tobacco causes health problems, and guess who pays for inmate's health problems?
4. Those that wish to avoid smoke have a hard time doing so (guards and other inmates)
5. Maintenance issues (guess who pays for that?)
Before you spout off, think. Just a little. No, a little more...there ya go![;)]
Hope you feel safer now.
Point well made. I haven't had any experience with prisons and hope not to. I didn't realize that tobacco was such a powerful bargaining tool behind bars. The other posts made sense to me. Sorry for "spouting off" and "not thinking"!
Atleast we aren't the only S.O. that employs idiots.[:(!][xx(][V]
No, you are not...
txlawdog, question for ya
-Hyothetically, had he denied it, and the only evidence against him was the statements of 3 inmates, would you still have fired him?
Plenty of employers would. You've been around long enough to know criminals lie just to cause trouble for the jerk that put them in jail or the CO who was not nice to them behind bars. That's the reason for the union, and that's the reason unions stand up for employees even when they've been accused of a crime.
I have shared much less information than was posted on the internet in the local newspaper or on the news. I guess I could have just posted the story and said, "What a crazy world we live in," and gotten the same responses. Nevertheless, it still spurred some great conversation and posts.
Hypothetically, I think your right, the merits of the case would have been much different.
I have shared much less information than was posted on the internet in the local newspaper or on the news. I guess I could have just posted the story and said, "What a crazy world we live in," and gotten the same responses. Nevertheless, it still spurred some great conversation and posts.
Yea, anything about unions, cops, or inmates is guarenteed to get some heated conversations, and you got all 3 in one post [:p]
So, too bad he broke the rules; Adios.
I didn't, but I'm gone any way.
Spent 2 hrs appraising a collection today for a granny, and made $100.00, but Dick's doesn't need knowledge, as a lot of you smart shoppers know.
my $.02
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than to have a frontal lobotomy"
I hope they send him to a different prison.
They would not house anyone like that in that fashion. Not at the same place they worked or the place where someone might recognize them. I think it is common for a that if a police officer goes to prison they will separate him from everyone else.
I think some might have misread some information...
I don't think in this case that he will go to prison. Just like in all cases, its very rare that a first offense get a jail sentence. They almost all the time get probation first and are given attempts to show the rest of the world that they can do the right thing again and are still a productive member of society.