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Chick almost shoots herself!!!
CHEVELLE427
Member Posts: 6,750
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCzOLEoko6o&feature=related
Comments
we had an unofficial rule at my range in KS: newbie shooting a powerful gun for the first time: load ONLY ONE ROUND! Looks like she fired the weapon a second time while not completely in control of said weapon.
Guy knows something about guns (or at least claims to) therefore he is the idiot in this case
could she have fired it twice
+2 on Guy knows something about guns (or at least claims to) therefore he is the idiot in this case
The bullet was already out of the barrel before the recoil started.
That's impossible, Don. Think about it.[;)]
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
The bullet was already out of the barrel before the recoil started.
That's impossible, Don. Think about it.[;)]
You're joking right? The recoil is from the gas jet effect of the gas after the bullet leaves the barrel, just like in a shotgun or rifle. The recoil on a gun starts after the bullet leaves the barrel. That is why compensators work, because the redirect the gas flow after the bullet exits.
quote:Originally posted by jimdeere
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
The bullet was already out of the barrel before the recoil started.
That's impossible, Don. Think about it.[;)]
You're joking right? The recoil is from the gas jet effect of the gas after the bullet leaves the barrel, just like in a shotgun or rifle. The recoil on a gun starts after the bullet leaves the barrel. That is why compensators work, because the redirect the gas flow after the bullet exits.
I don't think so,
its all about conse4rvation of momentum: bullet leaves gun at high velocity going forward; gun must move backwards at smaller velocity
looks like 2 puffs of smoke.
could she have fired it twice
I'm guessing you aren't a revolver shooter.
"Puffs" of smoke come out the barrel and the gap between the cylinder and forcing cone (rear of barrel)
Because it's a revolver it's doubtful she fired two shots.
of course it happens so fast all i ever see is one cloud of smoke
ok went back and watched it again this time with the sound on.
only heard 1 bang
had the sound off wife was sleeping,
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".
I believe Wayne Newton said that.
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
quote:Originally posted by jimdeere
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
The bullet was already out of the barrel before the recoil started.
That's impossible, Don. Think about it.[;)]
You're joking right? The recoil is from the gas jet effect of the gas after the bullet leaves the barrel, just like in a shotgun or rifle. The recoil on a gun starts after the bullet leaves the barrel. That is why compensators work, because the redirect the gas flow after the bullet exits.
I don't think so,
its all about conse4rvation of momentum: bullet leaves gun at high velocity going forward; gun must move backwards at smaller velocity
I know this argument, and the physics are interesting, but if that is true, explain how a comp works![;)]
The amount of pressured gas between the case and the bullet stay in the barrel and do not create recoil until the bullet exits the crown. At that point, the gas creates the recoil.
Ever fired a pistol in the dark? That huge muzzel flas is the gas you don't see in the daylight.
Not meaning to belabor the point, but...
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".
I believe Wayne Newton said that.
Yep, and that reaction starts when the bullet leaves the barrel, not the case.
quote:Originally posted by jimdeere
Not meaning to belabor the point, but...
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".
I believe Wayne Newton said that.
Yep, and that reaction starts when the bullet leaves the barrel, not the case.
You are forgetting "equal and opposite". Recoil starts when the bullet starts to move (simple answer).
Comps work because if gas pressure, but the cartridge is BACK against the slide or revolver frame or bolt, etc BEFORE the bullet leaves the muzzle. If the cartridge moves rearward there is a force moving in the same direction, correct?
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
quote:Originally posted by jimdeere
Not meaning to belabor the point, but...
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".
I believe Wayne Newton said that.
Yep, and that reaction starts when the bullet leaves the barrel, not the case.
You are forgetting "equal and opposite". Recoil starts when the bullet starts to move (simple answer).
No, not of any significance. I'm surprised at some of you guys answers.
I could set up an experiment with photogates and force sensors to prove my point...but I have a stack of papers to grade and would like to party this weekend rather than working
You don't have to. There are already lots of those photos all over the internet. There is insignificant movement until the bullet exits. At that point, the massive reaction that we generally refer to as recoil starts.
The bullet had left the barrel of that pistol before the muzzel started to climb.
If recoil started before the bullet left, you would never be able to site a gun in and hit a target.
Think guys, think.
quote:Originally posted by KSUmarksman
I could set up an experiment with photogates and force sensors to prove my point...but I have a stack of papers to grade and would like to party this weekend rather than working
You don't have to. There are already lots of those photos all over the internet. There is insignificant movement until the bullet exits. At that point, the massive reaction that we generally refer to as recoil starts.
The bullet had left the barrel of that pistol before the muzzel started to climb.
Saying there is "insignificant" movement implies that there IS movement, no? That is like saying water is incompressible. That "zero" works for Mechanical Engineers yet Geophysicists can prove water is compressible.
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
quote:Originally posted by KSUmarksman
I could set up an experiment with photogates and force sensors to prove my point...but I have a stack of papers to grade and would like to party this weekend rather than working
You don't have to. There are already lots of those photos all over the internet. There is insignificant movement until the bullet exits. At that point, the massive reaction that we generally refer to as recoil starts.
The bullet had left the barrel of that pistol before the muzzel started to climb.
Saying there is "insignificant" movement implies that there IS movement, no? That is like saying water is incompressible. That "zero" works for Mechanical Engineers yet Geophysicists can prove water is compressible.
You get some movement from the hammer hitting the firing pin. That is insignificant. Recoil applies to the effect caused by the exiting of the bullet and the massive gas and pressure release.
I'm stunned that you guys don't know this.
You also get insignificant movement as the bullet travels down the barrel because of the twist of the rifling. This movement is usually called barrel whip, and is still not part of recoil.
I'm amazed!
If the muzzle started to jump while the bullet was still in the chamber. It would be pretty hard to hit anything. I agree that the bullet is out before the recoil.
Thank God someone knows something about ballistics and recoil!
high-speed video of scope and barrel flexing on a 50BMG
maybe this video will help
high-speed video of scope and barrel flexing on a 50BMG
That is a video of a gas operated semi-automatic, and the recoil starts and the bolt retracts as the gas pressurizes the piston, and guess what, that's as the bullet leaves the barrel.[;)]
If you put a firearm on a sled it would move rearward (exactly opposite the direction of the barrel) due to recoil.
You mentioned the bullet acting on the rifling and causing "barrel whip". How do you explain a shotgun with a comp then?
I thought that most misses were made by that pesky flench reflex. Not recoil itself. I also thought that the bullet was already starting down range by the time recoil really started. I mean, the time between the primer is struck and the bullet has left the barrel would be almost if not completely unprecievable. Right?
Bingo! Recoild doesn't cause a missed shot, recoil anticipation does. In other words, they start flenching before the bullet leaves the case.
Last time. the bullet is out of the crown before recoil starts!
Hello I have shot thousands of rounds of 45ACP from a ransom rest If you adjust the brake for light drag the bullet group will be MUCH higher then if the brake is adjusted Tighter . take a 1911 and grip very lightly it will impact much higher then if you grip it tightly . THE GUN Does move before the bullet gets out of the barrel That is why you have MALFUNCTION if you limp wrist a 1911 . the shorter the barrel the more critical this becomes because recoil impluse to operate the slide is only generated as long as the bullet is in the barrel it just take a amount of time to start the pistol to unlock the barrel . If I can find the link to the SUBER SLOW motion of both a 1911 and an AR it shows in detail what I am stating.
I believe you are confusing recoil (a rearward movement) with muzzle climb which is caused by rotation due to physical resistance (ransom rest? made to rotate).
If you put a firearm on a sled it would move rearward (exactly opposite the direction of the barrel) due to recoil.
You mentioned the bullet acting on the rifling and causing "barrel whip". How do you explain a shotgun with a comp then?
Shotguns have barrel pulse, not barrel whip. Your argument of the movement backwards of the firearm from the pressuring of the barrel is so insignificant that it cannot really be measured. By the time enough kenitic energy is produced to cause movement against the weight of the gun, even a pistol, the bullet has already exited the barrel and the gas relase starts the motion of recoil.
If it were not so, you could never hit a target. Movement of the gun would have to be held by your muscle mass to hold it on target, and you couldn't do that.
Again guys, if it were not true, and compensator would not work.
Hello Recoil starts at the time the primer goes off and primer gases start through the flash hole. Recoil continues to increase as the bullet starts to accelerate down the barrel . If you take a heavy bullet at slow velocity and a light bullet at high velocity out of a revolver the heavy bullet will print higher on the target because the recoil will move the barrel more before it leaves the muzzle "BARREL TIME". The reason a COMP works is it directs the GASES upward so the muzzle then recoils downward . If a comp was turned 180 degrees Then you would have a pistol that would Climb even higher when shot then one without a COMP. . However a comp for all practical purposes does not change the point of impact with a comp on or off because the bullet is almost out of the barrel "inside the comp " before the comp starts to work.
Perry, the movement of the gun at detonation until bullet exit is insignificant, and recoil as we know it starts at exit. I doubt you could measure more than .001" movement, if fired out of a vice, until the bullet exits, if that. Human hands and flench do make some movement.
quote:Originally posted by 204targetman
If the muzzle started to jump while the bullet was still in the chamber. It would be pretty hard to hit anything. I agree that the bullet is out before the recoil.
Thank God someone knows something about ballistics and recoil!
Yep. Bullet is long gone before the recoil starts.
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
quote:Originally posted by 204targetman
If the muzzle started to jump while the bullet was still in the chamber. It would be pretty hard to hit anything. I agree that the bullet is out before the recoil.
Thank God someone knows something about ballistics and recoil!
Yep. Bullet is long gone before the recoil starts.
Younguns'! They don't believe us.[;)]
quote:Originally posted by iceracerx
I believe you are confusing recoil (a rearward movement) with muzzle climb which is caused by rotation due to physical resistance (ransom rest? made to rotate).
If you put a firearm on a sled it would move rearward (exactly opposite the direction of the barrel) due to recoil.
You mentioned the bullet acting on the rifling and causing "barrel whip". How do you explain a shotgun with a comp then?
Shotguns have barrel pulse, not barrel whip. Your argument of the movement backwards of the firearm from the pressuring of the barrel is so insignificant that it cannot really be measured. By the time enough kenitic energy is produced to cause movement against the weight of the gun, even a pistol, the bullet has already exited the barrel and the gas relase starts the motion of recoil.
If it were not so, you could never hit a target. Movement of the gun would have to be held by your muscle mass to hold it on target, and you couldn't do that.
Again guys, if it were not true, and compensator would not work.
Can you go into further detail? This is interresting.
Not meaning to belabor the point, but...
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".
I believe Wayne Newton said that.
WAYNE NEWTON ?! !!?!?!?!?!?! [:D][:D][:D][:D]
.
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
quote:Originally posted by iceracerx
I believe you are confusing recoil (a rearward movement) with muzzle climb which is caused by rotation due to physical resistance (ransom rest? made to rotate).
If you put a firearm on a sled it would move rearward (exactly opposite the direction of the barrel) due to recoil.
You mentioned the bullet acting on the rifling and causing "barrel whip". How do you explain a shotgun with a comp then?
Shotguns have barrel pulse, not barrel whip. Your argument of the movement backwards of the firearm from the pressuring of the barrel is so insignificant that it cannot really be measured. By the time enough kenitic energy is produced to cause movement against the weight of the gun, even a pistol, the bullet has already exited the barrel and the gas relase starts the motion of recoil.
If it were not so, you could never hit a target. Movement of the gun would have to be held by your muscle mass to hold it on target, and you couldn't do that.
Again guys, if it were not true, and compensator would not work.
Can you go into further detail? This is interresting.
No, I'm about through. You guys need to surf the net and find the experiments and demonstrations. You will find that no movement strong enough to change bullet trajectory begins until the jet effect after the bullet leaves the barrel. I honestly thought all hunters and bench shooters knew this. I was wrong!
quote:Originally posted by jimdeere
Not meaning to belabor the point, but...
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".
I believe Wayne Newton said that.
WAYNE NEWTON ?! !!?!?!?!?!?! [:D][:D][:D][:D]
.
I'm assuming he was joking.[:D]
Perry, the movement of the gun at detonation until bullet exit is insignificant, and recoil as we know it starts at exit. I doubt you could measure more than .001" movement, if fired out of a vice, until the bullet exits, if that. Human hands and flench do make some movement.
Dan, ANY movement opposite the travel of the bullet is RECOIL. It doesn't matter how small the movement. And why do you use the example of a vice? Why not make the firearm free moving?
The gas pressure is exerting EQUAL pressure on the bullet and firearm when the bullet is in the barrel. The fact that there is a huge difference in mass doesn't negate the fact that there has to be movement opposite the bullet.