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Does hating the AR-15 make you a traitor?
hughbetcha
Member Posts: 7,801 ✭✭✭
think about it.. if it was WWII and you drove around with a bumper sticker that said "Mausers Rule" "Zero's Eat Hellcats for Lunch" or "My Other Car is a Kubelwagon" you'd probably be lynched.
discuss among yourselves
discuss among yourselves
Comments
I don't think it says in the constitution that you have to love substandard weaponry .. [}:)]
[:D]
I don't see how it makes one a traitor..
I don't think it says in the constitution that you have to love substandard weaponry .. [}:)]
[:D]
You're not an American Happy, so you can't be a traitor, at least not to the U.S.. With you it's simply a matter of opinion...
Wow it's Made In The US.[8D]
I agree the Barret .50 magezine fed sniper rifle is the way to go.
Wow it's Made In The US.[8D]
Now that's the kind of spirit we need to hear more of around here.
I'm really distrubed that the country has become so divided by politics that we Americans can't find anything to agree on anymore. I see this "self-loathing" driven by the Bush bashers who would rather tear our country down over a difference of political opinion than find common ground.
This disturbing trend carries over into criticism of everything American, including our military weapons and our troops. conversely, everything about the enemy is glorified up to and including their weapons.
Back in WWII the poster said "The M1 does my Talking" and Americans were filled with pride in our troops and our country's ability to produce the best weapons in the world.
Then came the unpopular wars, like Vietnam, and curiously with criticism of the war and our soldiers, came criticm for the rifle they were issued. Nowadays its as fashionable to bash the M16 as it is to bash the president. After all, if "everybody" is doing it, it must be right!
hughbetcha- I think you're comparing apples to oranges. Owning an AK-47 is vastly different than driving around with a bumper sticker that says "Osama Bin Laden was right!" If you cannot look at two products unobjectively and decide for yourself which is superior, that makes you biased, not unpatriotic.
By any objective standard the AR-15/M16 is one of the finest rifles ever fielded by any army.
DWS,
That bumber sticker will undoubtably attract the attention of car jacking thugs armed with AK-47s. Keep your Glock in the glove box and your HK in the trunk.
hughbetcha- I think you're comparing apples to oranges. Owning an AK-47 is vastly different than driving around with a bumper sticker that says "Osama Bin Laden was right!" If you cannot look at two products unobjectively and decide for yourself which is superior, that makes you biased, not unpatriotic.
Dave--this is Hugh's puny attempt at chain-yanking, yet another in a tedious succession of ludicrous laments. No matter that our troops' boots are made in Korea and their BDUs in the sweat shops of Venezuela, Hugh has to becry his Amaericanism and preference for the M16 over the AK, and this despite being told repeatedly by people who would certainly know that as a combat weapon the M16 is a far distant second to the AK, maybe a far distant third behind the Daewoo.
first of all I don't hate the AR-15/M-16, it is you who said that only criminals own AK-47s. By the way, aren't the new military M-4s made in Belgium???
secondly, in today's global economy there is really no such thing as a "good guy weapon" or "bad guy weapon". Iran has a squadron of F-14 Tomcats, does that make the Tomcat a terrorist plane? At the time of Desert Storm Iraq had in its arsenal weapons from a bunch of countries, including some American M-60 and British Chieftain tanks, not to mention a crapload of Mirage fighters, which France sold to just about any sheethead nation.
Lastly, to discuss the weaknesses of a weapon, such as the AK's inferior accuracy to the AR or the AR's inferior reliability, is just that: meaningful discourse which may (hopefully) lead to a better design which is the best of both worlds. No "treason" is intended.
While we're at it I dare someone to find me a battle rifle that is perfect in all environments and for all missions (IF one exists it probably ain't the AR or AK!)
Next let's attack the Browning Hi-power as a badguy weapon, after all it was the sidearm of choice of Iraqi generals and the Venezuelan army uses it. (this last line is of course sarcasm)
Clouder..
ARs just don't interest me. Thank you.
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
quote:Originally posted by Dave W.
hughbetcha- I think you're comparing apples to oranges. Owning an AK-47 is vastly different than driving around with a bumper sticker that says "Osama Bin Laden was right!" If you cannot look at two products unobjectively and decide for yourself which is superior, that makes you biased, not unpatriotic.
Dave--this is Hugh's puny attempt at chain-yanking, yet another in a tedious succession of ludicrous laments. No matter that our troops' boots are made in Korea and their BDUs in the sweat shops of Venezuela, Hugh has to becry his Amaericanism and preference for the M16 over the AK, and this despite being told repeatedly by people who would certainly know that as a combat weapon the M16 is a far distant second to the AK, maybe a far distant third behind the Daewoo.
Yes, this a puny attempt to yank peoples chains. Can't slip nothing past DWS(his senses were hyper-activated through combat)
No, I'm not crazy..I'm not going shoot people on sight if they're carrying AK-47s, etc. etc.
At least I'm trying to stir up gun related conversations. I take so much from this forum, it's just my puny attempt at giving something back.
Give me a good ol' Remington 870 any day over the AR... and yes, I do know this is apples and oranges here... can I help it if I like oranges better?[:p]
I just don't care for the AR-15.
Give me a good ol' Remington 870 any day over the AR... and yes, I do know this is apples and oranges here... can I help it if I like oranges better?[:p]
that's the spirit monkeyman! No snide remarks about George Bush, no bogged down in the quagmire of Iraq..just a clear lucid answer without disparaging our country or its weaponry.
it's just my puny attempt at giving something back.
Save the charity for Goodwill. Don
quote:Originally posted by hughbetcha
it's just my puny attempt at giving something back.
Save the charity for Goodwill. Don
I'll send your share directly to the Little Sisters of the Poor
Yup...
ARs just don't interest me. Thank you.
+1
So the M16 design has good points and bad points, just as everything else does- be it guns, cars, jobs, you name it- so there really is no point in spending the energy hating something- just accept the fact the you place more emphasis on it's weak points than on it's strong points, and that there are other designs that you consider superior. So everyone is entitled to their opinion, and to not accept someone else's opinion. So let it go.[;)]
but to anwser the "idoit" question; No... AK owners will more than likely pick up AR's on the field, So not only are they patriotic they are thrify too [;)]
I guess this is proof, that AR's are not even rifles... [:D] Wheres the rest. ??!!??
[;)]
No, it makes you a "tater."
Now, patriotism induced favoritism aside, tell us what you are? Communist or Capitalist?
Me still thinks that AR is a better, more dependable - all around weapon then the AK platform.
Lets assume that Mr. Kalashnikov was born in USA and Mr. Stoner was born in Russia.
Now, patriotism induced favoritism aside, tell us what you are? Communist or Capitalist?
Me still thinks that AR is a better, more dependable - all around weapon then the AK platform.
Lets say you drove a honda, and wanted the most bang for your buck; Every buck Every bang! Now descend to walmart they have cases of pop for 4.99$
quote:Originally posted by jack85
Lets assume that Mr. Kalashnikov was born in USA and Mr. Stoner was born in Russia.
Now, patriotism induced favoritism aside, tell us what you are? Communist or Capitalist?
Me still thinks that AR is a better, more dependable - all around weapon then the AK platform.
Lets say you drove a honda, and wanted the most bang for your buck; Every buck Every bang! Now descend to walmart they have cases of pop for 4.99$
Sorry, I don't do that. I'd rather wait, save some more and get what I really want, besides, space in my gunsafe is very limited...so -- no room for AK junk! By the way, what's Honda, Wallmart... etc?
quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
quote:Originally posted by jack85
Lets assume that Mr. Kalashnikov was born in USA and Mr. Stoner was born in Russia.
Now, patriotism induced favoritism aside, tell us what you are? Communist or Capitalist?
Me still thinks that AR is a better, more dependable - all around weapon then the AK platform.
Lets say you drove a honda, and wanted the most bang for your buck; Every buck Every bang! Now descend to walmart they have cases of pop for 4.99$
Sorry, I don't do that. I'd rather wait, save some more and get what I really want, besides, space in my gunsafe is very limited...so -- no room for AK junk! By the way, what's Honda, Wallmart... etc?
they dont let you guys watch FNC Fanaticle Nutcase Channel in canada do they? I'm suprised the njc/njo would let a militant amish member aboard..
Ahh I see that youre not a member of the njcnjo just poking at them in your pic..
You should hear EVERYONE listen to few believe none and trust God...
For house to house in town, I would personally choose an M3 greasegun or MAC 10. A big caliber in a fast small package.
On a convoy or anywhere where there is wide open spaces, the short M-14 or FAL. Again, caliber is the deciding factor. Penetration is needed also.
The AR-15 was fine for SE Asia. Small bullet, but small targets. Enough penetration for jungle and bamboo huts. More than enough range. I think we still got shortchanged there and should have waited until the AR-18, with it superior gas system, came online. Some talk about the Mickey Mouse folding stock. Well it is Rube Goldberg, but a standard stock could be fitted just as easy, and no more problem.
There is much talk about a new military round. I fear we are going to repeat a historic mistake yet again. 7mm should be the caliber of choice as the ballistic coefficient is the best. Numerous militaries have used the 6.5 in the past. Battlefield experiences have always shown that to be not quite good enough.
The AK is a good weapon. However it suffers from accuracy problems (thankfully). In SE Asia, it was the better choice of the two opposing weapons systems.
What's it all mean? Not a hell of a lot. The best weapon is the one in your hands.
My ak on the other hand I took hunting in a heavy rain got my deer set it in the mud while I pulled the deer out of the woods went and got it an hour later stuck it in the gunsafe then 6 months later I cleaned it, still works like new, still looks like new.
And when I did all those things, it would PROVE my patriotism by my actions. When I followed orders it would prove my LOYALTY, as I did.
It wouldn't make one stinking bit of difference if I liked one weapon design or another made anywhere, anytime for any reason.
I'd still be a loyal, patriotic American voluntaring service to my country in the military. And when I finished my tours of duty, I would be a loyal, patriotic American Veteran, which I am, no matter what somebody says about me for my opinions on firearm design.