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UPDATE: herniated disc

callktulucallktulu Member Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭
edited June 2009 in General Discussion
I have a herniated disc between my 3rd and 4th cervical vertebrae. Can it ever be put back w/o surgery? I'm going to do PT and continue my chiro visits (which do help), but I want to know if there's a way to fix things without ever having to resort to surgery. And I'm 36 years old, by the way. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too soon for surgery, even if they recommended it, I wouldn't.

I'm also trying to determine if this herniation is in conjunction with my VA benefit for bone degeneration. I receive 10% already, and I'm wondering if it's possible the bone degeneration made it easier for this disc to move. If so, I may be eligible for additional benefits. Maybe.
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Comments

  • footlongfootlong Member Posts: 8,009
    edited November -1
    Whats your weight and height? If your are FULL figured you may want to try some "PUSH OFFS" for exercise[:0]
  • callktulucallktulu Member Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm 36 years old, 5' 8", and about 165 lbs. Except for this neck, and a lack of exercise (other than lots of walking at work), I'm in good health.
  • RtWngExtrmstRtWngExtrmst Member Posts: 7,456
    edited November -1
    I, like you, was afraid to get surgery for herniated disc and suffered for years. Then one day walking down the street I fell down in unbearable pain. I had no choice then but to get the surgery. Couldn't stand or walk.

    That was 20 years ago. Haven't had any pain since. That surgery was the best thing I ever did for my health. Only wish I would have done it sooner.
  • Jacob2008Jacob2008 Member Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Spinal Decompression. No insurance coveres it, minimum 20 visits, few grand total... Cash out of pocket.
  • callktulucallktulu Member Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Right Wing, how old were you at the time of surgery?
  • gregwgregw Member Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Call, I would tread very lightly on going to the chiropractor, a herniated disk is nothing to mess with and a chiro just may hurt it worse by tweeking you. I have a herniated, and degenerative disk and the doc told me that a chiropractor would not and could not help the situation at all. Just simple movements may help it to one day be normal but then again, those simple movements could lay you flat out and not able to move. It is painful I know but stick with it and if surgery is necessary, I would have it done, you never know when it could rear it's head and leave you helpless. PS. I am forty, this happened to me at 36 also, the doc told me then I was tooooo young for surgery
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,895 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    http://www.comfortrac.net/cervical_trct.html

    http://www.laserspineinstitute.com/
    I don't know if they use this procedure in the cervical region as well, but it would be worth a call.

    I would try the first link though before making a decision.
    Surgery is 50/50,.........I have seen folks do just great, and then,.....well I think you can figure it out.
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • The Ultimate InfidelThe Ultimate Infidel Member Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Cervical spine subluxations are not likely to be treatable via VaxD treatments as lumbar and thoracic spine disc space issues may be. In any event if you are presurgical, it may be wise to find a good chiropractic doctor to evaluate you. Disc space problems higher in the spine has less weight dependancy thus can self heal with greater success. Surgical intervention should be absolute last resort and then only by a very practiced, and researched Orthopedic Surgeon.
  • callktulucallktulu Member Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by gregw
    Call, I would tread very lightly on going to the chiropractor, a herniated disk is nothing to mess with and a chiro just may hurt it worse by tweeking you.


    Actually, the neurosurgeon who recommended I not have surgery said to continue my chiro visits. The very cool thing is, for a $35 co-pay, not only do I get an adjustment, but I also get a 1-hour massage therapy to loosen the muscles, which are constantly spasming due to the disc being out of whack. If it works and feels good, I'm gonna keep doing it.
  • RtWngExtrmstRtWngExtrmst Member Posts: 7,456
    edited November -1
    callktulu:
    I was in my fifties. Wish I would have done it in my thirties. Do those 1 hour massages have a happy ending?

    Don't mess around with a herniated disc. You could end up crippled or dead.
  • callktulucallktulu Member Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by RtWngExtrmst
    callktulu:
    Do those 1 hour massages have a happy ending?


    HAHAHAHAHA! No, and I wouldn't want one from that particular therapist anyway![:p]
  • JorgeJorge Member Posts: 10,656 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Consider acupuncture.
  • tomahawktomahawk Member Posts: 11,826
    edited November -1
    i had surgery on l4,5, s1 it ain't a walk in the park and it still bothers me at times..if ihad to do it over i would do spinal decompression or acupuncture[V]
  • Jacob2008Jacob2008 Member Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tomahawk
    i had surgery on l4,5, s1 it ain't a walk in the park and it still bothers me at times..if ihad to do it over i would do spinal decompression or acupuncture[V]
    We're L5S1 buddies![B)][B)][:(][:(]
  • SuwanneePirateSuwanneePirate Member Posts: 65 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    There is a relitively new procedure where they inject some new disc material in instead or removing the old disc and fusing the vertebra.There has been a real good success rate with this procedure. Only thing is it can not be done once you have had the standard operation ,but the standard operation can be done after this procedure. One thing good about it is that it is less invasive and recovery time is not near as long as the typical standard slice /dice, remove and fuse deal .You also don't loose the range of movement as usually happens with a fused lower back. what ever you do research it and discuss it thoroughly with your surgon about all options . Good Luck!
  • The Ultimate InfidelThe Ultimate Infidel Member Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I got ya beat. I have S1 L5 L4 L3 all fused. One thing docs dont tell you is that intervertebral bulge will almost always end up with fusion vs a simple discectomy. Also once one level of your spine is operated on, it is like a ladder. The problems can and almost always do go up or down with more surgeries inevitable.
  • tapwatertapwater Member Posts: 10,335 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Laundry-pro
    I got ya beat. I have S1 L5 L4 L3 all fused. One thing docs dont tell you is that intervertebral bulge will almost always end up with fusion vs a simple discectomy. Also once one level of your spine is operated on, it is like a ladder. The problems can and almost always do go up or down with more surgeries inevitable.


    ...Echo that. This is my L4,L5,S1. Look at the juncture of L4 and L3. The problem just goes up higher.

    [img][/img]backX-rays007.jpg
  • dan kellydan kelly Member Posts: 9,799
    edited November -1
    on the 15th of next month i go into hospital for a cervical fusion at c6/7....surgery was the only hope for me, and there are no guarantees it will help me...good luck with your problem.
  • bigbill0910bigbill0910 Member Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had surgery on L3-4 L4-5 in 1990, I was 38 by a few days. The back quit hurting after a few months, but I got "Drop Foot" because of the surgery. I am fine now but it was hard for me to learn to walk,I still fall down a lot. (Good thing I do glass work for a living eh?) I don't hurt any more and if I wouldn't have had the surgery I don't think I would have been able to take the pain. Neck breakers didn't help, pills didn't help, a lot of people prayed for me and I prayed for the surgeon!
    I am still too fat!!!
  • asopasop Member Posts: 8,944 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Only go under the knife if it's your last resort. Many do well but more do worse after this type of surgery. Excerise (build the abs), swimming, although a pain, it great for this type of problem and watch how you pick things up. Had a construction accident many years ago damaging a disk and I'm doing fine but I work at it daily. Good luck.
  • mango tangomango tango Member Posts: 3,833 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mangosteen juice! I've been taking it for quite some time now, and i've had 2 MRI's 3 years apart, and my doctor said the discs have actually shrunk. I feel a lot better since taking it, and i have 2 herniated discs!
  • 4627046270 Member Posts: 12,627
    edited November -1
    try the vax D
    they wont touch me,but I have a friend that uses vax d
    he swears by it.
  • owen219owen219 Member Posts: 3,799
    edited November -1
    I have the last three discs missing. Hernieated and disentegrated leaving bone against bone. No surgery but have had shots put in. Couldn't walk in but walked out after the shots. The shots are done with active X-rays and guided by MRI pics so they can be exact and very precise. Done in surgery room especially for this. Pretty quick actually. The shots work differently on each person. Sometimes takes up to 3 shots in a series to work. Mine worked with one shot. The shots can last only weeks or up to many months depending on the individual. Im the meantime I take Ultram daily which makes 100% difference. Everybody is different of course but I would crtainly recommend trying them before surgery. Shots do not hurt. Many people get them on a regular basis for the rest of their life. I go to a clinic that specializes in this. I have never known any one personally that has had succesful back/spine surgery. Orthopedic surgeons have always told me that a Chiorpractor could easily render me into permanent paraylisis.
    Try the shot and see. Doc says I shouldn't lift the heavy weights anymore. Used to press over 300 standing and 160 with one arm standing, no more. That is getting old I guess. Still can shoot a squirrel in the head at 80 to 100 yards though. It's management of the problem that might be helped with the shots. Good luck young man!
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Had partial diskectomy on L3-4 in 1990 and a fusion in April 2008.
    The 5 1/2 hour fusion was bad news, putting me in more or less constant pain and greater physical limitation than before the operation.
    Tomorrow, they're doing an MRI on L5-S1.
    I intend to do a better search for the best man for the job of correcting the injury there. This time he will probably be a neurosurgeon.
  • callktulucallktulu Member Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So no one wants to tackle the VA question, huh? Could the herniation possibly been caused by the pre-existing condition of vertebrae degeneration?
  • 4627046270 Member Posts: 12,627
    edited November -1
    when was the injury?
    its not something that takes alot of time before
    your in 10 level pain.
    I would say no, but really to answer that, need to know
    history, but i'm no doctor, we can say hell yea, but that just a guess.
  • callktulucallktulu Member Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 46270
    when was the injury?
    its not something that takes alot of time before
    your in 10 level pain.
    I would say no, but really to answer that, need to know
    history, but i'm no doctor, we can say hell yea, but that just a guess.


    Best I can tell, I've had no injury. The disc just decided it wanted to leave the comfort of its home.
  • 8000fthi8000fthi Member Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Jacob2008
    quote:Originally posted by tomahawk
    i had surgery on l4,5, s1 it ain't a walk in the park and it still bothers me at times..if ihad to do it over i would do spinal decompression or acupuncture[V]
    We're L5S1 buddies![B)][B)][:(][:(]
    Is missing L6 L7 hereditary?
  • bama55bama55 Member Posts: 6,389 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Jacob2008
    Spinal Decompression. No insurance coveres it, minimum 20 visits, few grand total... Cash out of pocket.


    Jacob, We did that for my wife. Did not help. Cost us $5000.[:(!]
  • lindalecowboylindalecowboy Member Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In December 2004 I had a 3 level cervical fusion of C3-4-5 with plates and screws. Fusion went very well and I have not had one minutes trouble since. No real serious loss of range of motion and certainly worth the surgery since it solved my problem upper.

    Last November, had an artificial disc replacement at the L4-5 level.

    www.charitedisc.com

    It has largely been successful but now I'm back in the pain mgmt dr office once again with another disc gone.

    Once you start the battle with spinal problems, it usually goes on for a while. If your neck is your only issues, get it fixed now and you'll regain your freedom.

    BTW, I was 53 at the time of my neck fusion and never regretted it since. If you get a good surgeon, it will be worth it all.

    I had a fact joint injection this morning going back to try to figure out which one is bad now????????
  • tneff1969tneff1969 Member Posts: 6,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    My back looks like Tapwater's, was 36 when I had surgery. No regrets, can do things now I couldn't before. Nice going through the day without shooting pain, also nice to be able to get out of bed EVERY day.
  • 4627046270 Member Posts: 12,627
    edited November -1
    just to give you a little info
    I took a fall in 94, since then ive had
    13 or 14 operations. my latest on 20 may
    now ive got staples down my back.
    I wont go thru the spines injections anymore.
    the va wanted me to go thru spine injections
    but when I got talkin, they told me because of
    budget cutbacks we cant do all the surgerys at this time
    talk about mad as hell.
    DID YOU HEAR OBAMA SAYING THE VA BUDGET WAS INCREASED.
    BUT WHEN THEY ARE OUT OF MONEY ANYWAY[:D] Dont trust the SOB as
    far as i can throw him, and I cant throw him a foot[:)]
  • wlfmn323wlfmn323 Member Posts: 4,712
    edited November -1
    inquire about cervical traction.
    used to cut into your scalp and then drill bolts into your skull and attach weights. now they have a harness type aparatus that goes around your head and under your chin, the weight pulles the head and spine apart allowing the disk to return to its normal resting place.

    good luck with it, back problems are a real mother.
  • callktulucallktulu Member Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    UPDATE:

    So, I went to the local VA rep yesterday and filed for an increase in my compensation for "degeneration of cervical vertebrae," for I currently receive a 10% rating. I'm seeking an increase to 20% based on a moderate decrease in cervical movement (which in my opinion and doctors' is due to the disc herniation mentioned before).

    Question: should I continue my physical therapies and/or or treatments (chiro or pain killers/muscle relaxers), or drop everything until AFTER the VA has examined me? My concern is that continuing treatments of any kind might make me "better," and when the VA finally does get me scheduled for their exam regarding my request for increase, I'll no longer have the problem I've originally made the claim about.

    [?]
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,717 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    spinal decomp helped me....did $$$$ some time after nip & tuck on lumbar discs...hurt so bad i had to do something...didn't make me 18 again but manages it well so that i got a home unit to mimic supine traction routine chiro did...whenever gets to bothering just go for a ride...DO NOT USE IF EVER HAVE HAD ANY TYPE SPINAL FUSION OR HARDWARE....NO NO NO
  • callktulucallktulu Member Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, I don't want to move that disc back into place yet. That's the whole point....

    It does hurt though![xx(]
  • indy_kidindy_kid Member Posts: 531 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Jacob2008
    quote:Originally posted by tomahawk
    i had surgery on l4,5, s1 it ain't a walk in the park and it still bothers me at times..if ihad to do it over i would do spinal decompression or acupuncture[V]
    We're L5S1 buddies![B)][B)][:(][:(]


    I've had ruptures at C 5/6, C 6/7, L 4/5, L 5/S1, and a fusion of L4-S1. Since all were ruptures and pressing on nerves, I had little choice but surgery.

    It's likely the surgery for the C 5/6 rupture caused the C 6/7 rupture. The pain after the C 5/6 surgery subsided a bit, but never went away. Then it started to get worse and worse, until I couldn't do my job properly. I was teaching HS Physics, and couldn't look down to grade a paper for more than 5 minutes. I then had to pull my head back up. It would take me an hour to grade 1 class.

    I had 4 of those surgeries in a 1-year period. Really messed me up. That last, a fusion of L4 thru S1, lasted almost 8 hours and took 2 surgeons, each taking a 4-hour shift. Something bad happened in the surgery - I think the gas-passer positioned my head wrong (may not have known about the hardware there), reducing blood flow to my brain. When I finally woke up, more than 4 hours later instead of the usual 1 hour post-op nap, my memory was shot. I still have memory problems, and will likely have them for the rest of my life.

    IMHO, be VERY careful with a chiropractor. I would look into other methods of decompression, such as an inversion table with very light traction on the head. Decompress the entire spine! Do strength training under the supervision of a physical therapist to make sure you don't do it the wrong way! Building up the neck muscles will help protect that disc.

    Be sure to get a 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion! The doc who did my C 5/6 op used an old, out-dated method, cutting out a plug of bone from the hip instead of using cadaver bone or doing a fusion. I swear, my hip hurt more than my neck! Sleep was terrible. I couldn't lie on my back because of my previous L 4/5 surgery, and couldn't lie on my side because of the neck surgery. I ended up at about a 45 degree angle with a ton of pillows propping up my back and head.

    My currency doc says my entire thoracic spine looks bad, and he's surprised none of those discs have blown yet! So, I have that to look forward to!

    Before the 4-in-one-year hell (May, 2001 - May 2002), I used to jog about 5 miles every other day, run 10K races, sky-dive, rock-climb, etc. Very active outdoors. No more. I now walk with a prominent limp and usually use a cane because the pain builds up quickly. I really miss the jogging; that was a great stress-reliever during my Ph.D. program. I didn't take up jogging until about 4 years after my L 4/5 surgery in 1988, but it helped reduce the pain from that injury. I could only run about every other day; if I tried to do more, it would hurt too much. I even ran 3 of the Indy Mini-Marathons, posting 2-hour times for each of them. Not bad for a *!

    So, be very careful with the chiropractor, and get as many opinions as you can. Investigate dedicated spine centers. Study, research, and question!

    Good luck!
  • callktulucallktulu Member Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So.....you didn't read the whole thread, did you?[:p]
  • callktulucallktulu Member Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the link!
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