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quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
Yes indeed lt!! Your a good man and we need more like you.
I'm stubborn and will not stop trying to convince 1,2,3...people that we have been led astray and need to get back on the path to morality/induvidualality.[;)]
Even in school many of the things my son tells me they're teaching is of the collectivist mentality. Just follow the path/sheppard without question. Georgge Orwells 1984 come to mind.
I'm keeping him from falling into the trap though. He catches on fast to common sense. [:)]
Keep the faith Hunter and keep the alarm bell ringing and the focus on the actual battleground for the Republic.
Nothing else has a chance of turning this mess around. A few good men, holding to truth and to the tenants of the Republic, can make a world of difference for some.
Shine light on collectivism and show it for what it is. Hold up government actions to the yardstick of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, along with what some of our citizens want government to do.
Nothing else can illustrate how far astray we as a nation and as a people have strayed.
quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
quote:Originally posted by idahordnk
quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
quote:Originally posted by idahordnk
quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
quote:"shall not be infringed does not apply to everybody anymore"
Why not and since when?
Please tell me your kidding?
OH and as far as preserving our rights. Everyone that has ever written their representatives,joined a group,attended a meeting ect has helped preserve our rights. On the other hand everyone that has been in favor of gun legislation has helped set a precident to degrade our rights that the 2nd amendment/constitution doesn't mean squat anymore.[xx(]
Since its 2009, you mean to tell me you want your daughter,.... maybe walkin down the street and get caught in a crossfire and end up dead because some peice of trash has a right to bear arms and just got out the gun store with his new gun? WTH please tell me your kidding right? This is a two way street, Some PEOPLE have bargained away their rights and are no longer fit to own a gun in my opinion of course!
These types of people you mention do not belong in society. Why are they out in society? Because the government let them out. So lets deny everyone the right to bear arms ok? These people weren't born unfit for society and anyone can become "unfit" in case you didn't know there's no way to prevent all crime.
Should we outlaw cars or alcohol because our "kids" can be run over by a drunk driving a car at any time?
You know better than that come on........[xx(]
Are you serious thats a joke right! I aint some uppety Brady Bunch character, These people are out there none the less and if they F up they do not have a Right any more period. You know the people im talkin about, its simple, black and white, dont try twistin my words into anything more than exactly what they say. So where do you put these people who do not belong in society, Here again its 2009 cant just find a big tall tree and a short peice of rope, The government let them out is a nice theory but more kids today grow up corrupted than become corrupted so what do ya do w them, all im sayin is its a two way street and it cant be all or nothin anymore times have changed, and it sucks but that is the way it is
So the kids get stabbed with a knife instead of being shot with a gun...
What then 2009?
Then they f up and no longer have the right to own a gun, (Felony is a felony yes) Shall not be infringed does not apply to them
This is not that complicated to see where im coming from
quote:Originally posted by idahordnk
]Hunter, it once again comes down to "collectivism" vs. "individualism".
This is the philosophical divide and the battleground for the future of the Republic, hence the reason that I keep dragging this stuff out for public view.
One philosophy believes in "societal justice" rather than individual responsibility, punishment, or individual justice.
One philosophy looks at things as groups, classes, races, genders, social strata, general behavior and group actions etc, rather than at individuals and subsequently they desire prohibition and control of objects and behaviors related to these groups, classes, genders, races; as opposed to dealing with/punishing individual "bad-acts".
You will never get through to them, but the arguments and the illustrating of the opposing position, is critical to focus attention on the philosophical divide and the root-cause of the erosion of the Republic.
I do agree with what you have stated here, very intriguing!If you agree and are stimulated to thought, I implore you to reexamine some of your stated positions in light of these philosophies.
quote:Originally posted by idahordnk
quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
So how does not owning a gun stop a stabbing with a knife?
Ya know what never mind.[:(]
You still completely miss my point but Im done as well, good talk though[8D]
No, I get your point, it's just that you can't realize that punishing many for the acts of a few is illogical,unreasonable and unconstitutional.
quote:Originally posted by idahordnk
quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
So how does not owning a gun stop a stabbing with a knife?
Ya know what never mind.[:(]
You still completely miss my point but Im done as well, good talk though[8D]
This sounds like a person who is making the argument that the constitution is outdated, and needs to be "modified" to fit the current times [V]
NRA does more then anyone else. Still feared by politicians even though the organization is weakened by those who refuse to support for various reasons. While NRA does not meet every individuals needs for the protection of the second amendment, it is the NRA not the Second Amendment Assoc.
They DO promote the safe enjoyment of shooting, provide training, encourage kids to get involved, partner with Winchester for the Marksmanship programs, AND lobby. Regardless of the those who bash, if we made the NRA more powerful with membership they could press politicians harder, and its kind of like being an American, you will never agree with everything your country does but it's still America.
Those who bash the NRA for their willingness to bend on the Second Amendment are of course entitled to their position, however failure to support a shooting organization that is obviously the most valuable asset we have in Name recognition and public credibility
is IMHO cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
NRA does more then anyone else. Still feared by politicians even though the organization is weakened by those who refuse to support for various reasons. While NRA does not meet every individuals needs for the protection of the second amendment, it is the NRA not the Second Amendment Assoc.
They DO promote the safe enjoyment of shooting, provide training, encourage kids to get involved, partner with Winchester for the Marksmanship programs, AND lobby. Regardless of the those who bash, if we made the NRA more powerful with membership they could press politicians harder, and its kind of like being an American, you will never agree with everything your country does but it's still America.
Those who bash the NRA for their willingness to bend on the Second Amendment are of course entitled to their position, however failure to support a shooting organization that is obviously the most valuable asset we have in Name recognition and public credibility
is IMHO cutting off your nose to spite your face.
BS! Another who refuses to recognize that the NRA is falling into the realm of send money and we will do what we want, not those who sent it! Kind of sounds like our present president and congress!
Here is what GOA has done, NO COMPROMISE. There is no room for compromise when it comes to RTKBA, or any other constitutional right.
Idahordnk, what happens when everything is a felony? No one has gun rights? Look at how many crimes have been changed from misdemeanors to felony over the years. Now days most states can take from you money just for not wearing seatbelt, if you don't pay fine they will arrest you and possibly throw you in jail. How long before that progression becomes a felony? What's next?
The article is hog-wash and as usual, the deliberate shift of focus from individualism as applied to our Constitutional Republic is off base. Abstract individualism theory (near-anarchy) is looked at, while the actuality of the Republic is ignored.
Individualism and society go together just fine.
Individualism and America's Republic are a perfect fit, since our government was founded to provide protection to the individual and our government was given seventeen (17) specific powers and duties ONLY. Government was specifically limited by the Constitution to those powers so that the perfect marriage of government/societal control was present whilst the liberty of the individual in society was maximized.
It is merely a problem when certain segments of that society, particularly predatory-government, take the opposing philosophical position, that being some version of "statism" or "collectivism".
The following quotes encapsulate the concept rather nicely, I think......
"Politically, true individualism means recognizing that one has a right to his own life and happiness. But it also means uniting with other citizens to preserve and defend the institutions that protect that right." -- Shawn E. Klein
...or...
"This right to life, this right to liberty, and this right to pursue one's happiness is unabashedly individualistic, without in the slightest denying at the same time our thoroughly social nature. It's only that our social relations, while vital to us all, must be chosen -- that is what makes the crucial difference." -- Prof. Tibor R. Machan
...or...
"The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society." --Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1816
...or...
"It is strangely absurd to suppose that a million of human beings, collected together, are not under the same moral laws which bind each of them separately." -- Thomas Jefferson
...and specific to you Barzillia.....
"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men."-- John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
There is nothing about Individualism that prevents an orderly, polite society. Our very own government was founded upon the principle of the government protecting the individual, or the minority, from the tyranny of the majority.
quote:Originally posted by buffalobo
Here is what GOA has done, NO COMPROMISE. There is no room for compromise when it comes to RTKBA, or any other constitutional right.
Idahordnk, what happens when everything is a felony? No one has gun rights? Look at how many crimes have been changed from misdemeanors to felony over the years. Now days most states can take from you money just for not wearing seatbelt, if you don't pay fine they will arrest you and possibly throw you in jail. How long before that progression becomes a felony? What's next?
Statism, or Collectivism, in its relentless quest for control and domination over individuals, tends to gradually (or rapidly) criminalize acts that should be the free choice of individuals, thus leading inevitably to some form of totalitarianism.
Do a bit of research on what has actually happened in this once great nation, in the area of criminalization. It doesn't take an advanced degree to puzzle it out.
The road to totalitarianism (or to hell) is paved with good and/or ill, intentions.
"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men."
The article is hog-wash and as usual, the deliberate shift of focus from individualism as applied to our Constitutional Republic is off base. Abstract individualism theory (near-anarchy) is looked at, while the actuality of the Republic is ignored.
Individualism and society go together just fine.
Individualism and America's Republic are a perfect fit, since our government was founded to provide protection to the individual and our government was given seventeen (17) specific powers and duties ONLY. Government was specifically limited by the Constitution to those powers so that the perfect marriage of government/societal control was present whilst the liberty of the individual in society was maximized.
It is merely a problem when certain segments of that society, particularly predatory-government, take the opposing philosophical position, that being some version of "statism" or "collectivism".
The following quotes encapsulate the concept rather nicely, I think......
"Politically, true individualism means recognizing that one has a right to his own life and happiness. But it also means uniting with other citizens to preserve and defend the institutions that protect that right." -- Shawn E. Klein
...or...
"This right to life, this right to liberty, and this right to pursue one's happiness is unabashedly individualistic, without in the slightest denying at the same time our thoroughly social nature. It's only that our social relations, while vital to us all, must be chosen -- that is what makes the crucial difference." -- Prof. Tibor R. Machan
...or...
"The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society." --Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1816
...or...
"It is strangely absurd to suppose that a million of human beings, collected together, are not under the same moral laws which bind each of them separately." -- Thomas Jefferson
...and specific to you Barzillia.....
"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men."-- John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
There is nothing about Individualism that prevents an orderly, polite society. Our very own government was founded upon the principle of the government protecting the individual, or the minority, from the tyranny of the majority.
Simple stuff really......
Perhaps you should both read and understand the article before you dismiss it.
Just what do you think the point of the article was ?
Do you not comprehend that the framers of the constitution were classical liberalists ? The Cato institute is a very well considered group sponsoring political philosophy discussion, and very friendly to classical liberalism. Stop grandstanding and playing to the crowd.
If you wish to engage in conversation, then fine. But so far you have offered nothing but demagoguery. I can appreciate your zeal, but I think you are functioning as a loose cannon, just as apt to fire upon those who would be friendly to freedom, as otherwise.
From the article:
"differences cannot be swept away a priori; their resolution is not furthered by shameless distortion, absurd characterizations, or petty name-calling."
Wrong Barzilla Im the lose cannon for I am not sold on the fact that the NRA is selling You down the river although I do see and dont agree with some of their stances, some of the time, they are the only ones out there making a difference be it what you want as the constitution was written which is inevidably what I want, or at least keepin the pressure on the anti gun groups.but times are different now. There are evil people who have access to many more things than they did in 1895, Gun Laws are B.S and I agree..... but when a guy can go out and aquire a machine gun v.s a 54 cal Hawken its different, so that is what I was saying. I guess yeah the Constitution as it was written is as it should be but times are different now and some PEOPLE have bargained away their rights and are no longer fit to own a gun period.
lt496 I dont feel You are trying to please the crowd. Apparently I stirred this Barzilla fella Up and sometimes that happens. I will say this You have a very Unique way of looking at a situation and make even the opposition THINK.
quote:Originally posted by idahordnk
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
An interesting read:
The article is hog-wash and as usual, the deliberate shift of focus from individualism as applied to our Constitutional Republic is off base. Abstract individualism theory (near-anarchy) is looked at, while the actuality of the Republic is ignored.
Individualism and society go together just fine.
Individualism and America's Republic are a perfect fit, since our government was founded to provide protection to the individual and our government was given seventeen (17) specific powers and duties ONLY. Government was specifically limited by the Constitution to those powers so that the perfect marriage of government/societal control was present whilst the liberty of the individual in society was maximized.
It is merely a problem when certain segments of that society, particularly predatory-government, take the opposing philosophical position, that being some version of "statism" or "collectivism".
The following quotes encapsulate the concept rather nicely, I think......
"Politically, true individualism means recognizing that one has a right to his own life and happiness. But it also means uniting with other citizens to preserve and defend the institutions that protect that right." -- Shawn E. Klein
...or...
"This right to life, this right to liberty, and this right to pursue one's happiness is unabashedly individualistic, without in the slightest denying at the same time our thoroughly social nature. It's only that our social relations, while vital to us all, must be chosen -- that is what makes the crucial difference." -- Prof. Tibor R. Machan
...or...
"The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society." --Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1816
...or...
"It is strangely absurd to suppose that a million of human beings, collected together, are not under the same moral laws which bind each of them separately." -- Thomas Jefferson
...and specific to you Barzillia.....
"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men."-- John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
There is nothing about Individualism that prevents an orderly, polite society. Our very own government was founded upon the principle of the government protecting the individual, or the minority, from the tyranny of the majority.
Simple stuff really......
Perhaps you should both read and understand the article before you dismiss it.
Just what do you think the point of the article was ?
Do you not comprehend that the framers of the constitution were classical liberalists ? The Cato institute is a very well considered group sponsoring political philosophy discussion, and very friendly to classical liberalism. Stop grandstanding and playing to the crowd.
If you wish to engage in conversation, then fine. But so far you have offered nothing but demagoguery. I can appreciate your zeal, but I think you are functioning as a loose cannon, just as apt to fire upon those who would be friendly to freedom, as otherwise.
From the article:
"differences cannot be swept away a priori; their resolution is not furthered by shameless distortion, absurd characterizations, or petty name-calling."
Wrong Barzilla Im the lose cannon for I am not sold on the fact that the NRA is selling You down the river although I do see and dont agree with some of their stances, some of the time, they are the only ones out there making a difference be it what you want as the constitution was written which is inevidably what I want, or at least keepin the pressure on the anti gun groups.but times are different now. There are evil people who have access to many more things than they did in 1895, Gun Laws are B.S and I agree..... but when a guy can go out and aquire a machine gun v.s a 54 cal Hawken its different, so that is what I was saying. I guess yeah the Constitution as it was written is as it should be but times are different now and some PEOPLE have bargained away their rights and are no longer fit to own a gun period.
lt496 I dont feel You are trying to please the crowd. Apparently I stirred this Barzilla fella Up and sometimes that happens. I will say this You have a very Unique way of looking at a situation and make even the opposition THINK.
Not enough good things can be said about this man. If you read his posts you can really LEARN.
Comments
Yes indeed lt!! Your a good man and we need more like you.
I'm stubborn and will not stop trying to convince 1,2,3...people that we have been led astray and need to get back on the path to morality/induvidualality.[;)]
Even in school many of the things my son tells me they're teaching is of the collectivist mentality. Just follow the path/sheppard without question. Georgge Orwells 1984 come to mind.
I'm keeping him from falling into the trap though. He catches on fast to common sense. [:)]
Keep the faith Hunter and keep the alarm bell ringing and the focus on the actual battleground for the Republic.
Nothing else has a chance of turning this mess around. A few good men, holding to truth and to the tenants of the Republic, can make a world of difference for some.
Shine light on collectivism and show it for what it is. Hold up government actions to the yardstick of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, along with what some of our citizens want government to do.
Nothing else can illustrate how far astray we as a nation and as a people have strayed.
quote:Originally posted by idahordnk
quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
quote:Originally posted by idahordnk
quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
quote:"shall not be infringed does not apply to everybody anymore"
Why not and since when?
Please tell me your kidding?
OH and as far as preserving our rights. Everyone that has ever written their representatives,joined a group,attended a meeting ect has helped preserve our rights. On the other hand everyone that has been in favor of gun legislation has helped set a precident to degrade our rights that the 2nd amendment/constitution doesn't mean squat anymore.[xx(]
Since its 2009, you mean to tell me you want your daughter,.... maybe walkin down the street and get caught in a crossfire and end up dead because some peice of trash has a right to bear arms and just got out the gun store with his new gun? WTH please tell me your kidding right? This is a two way street, Some PEOPLE have bargained away their rights and are no longer fit to own a gun in my opinion of course!
These types of people you mention do not belong in society. Why are they out in society? Because the government let them out. So lets deny everyone the right to bear arms ok? These people weren't born unfit for society and anyone can become "unfit" in case you didn't know there's no way to prevent all crime.
Should we outlaw cars or alcohol because our "kids" can be run over by a drunk driving a car at any time?
You know better than that come on........[xx(]
Are you serious thats a joke right! I aint some uppety Brady Bunch character, These people are out there none the less and if they F up they do not have a Right any more period. You know the people im talkin about, its simple, black and white, dont try twistin my words into anything more than exactly what they say. So where do you put these people who do not belong in society, Here again its 2009 cant just find a big tall tree and a short peice of rope, The government let them out is a nice theory but more kids today grow up corrupted than become corrupted so what do ya do w them, all im sayin is its a two way street and it cant be all or nothin anymore times have changed, and it sucks but that is the way it is
So the kids get stabbed with a knife instead of being shot with a gun...
What then 2009?
Then they f up and no longer have the right to own a gun, (Felony is a felony yes) Shall not be infringed does not apply to them
This is not that complicated to see where im coming from
]Hunter, it once again comes down to "collectivism" vs. "individualism".
This is the philosophical divide and the battleground for the future of the Republic, hence the reason that I keep dragging this stuff out for public view.
One philosophy believes in "societal justice" rather than individual responsibility, punishment, or individual justice.
One philosophy looks at things as groups, classes, races, genders, social strata, general behavior and group actions etc, rather than at individuals and subsequently they desire prohibition and control of objects and behaviors related to these groups, classes, genders, races; as opposed to dealing with/punishing individual "bad-acts".
You will never get through to them, but the arguments and the illustrating of the opposing position, is critical to focus attention on the philosophical divide and the root-cause of the erosion of the Republic.
Ya know what never mind.[:(]
So how does not owning a gun stop a stabbing with a knife?
Ya know what never mind.[:(]
You still completely miss my point but Im done as well, good talk though[8D]
quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
So how does not owning a gun stop a stabbing with a knife?
Ya know what never mind.[:(]
You still completely miss my point but Im done as well, good talk though[8D]
No, I get your point, it's just that you can't realize that punishing many for the acts of a few is illogical,unreasonable and unconstitutional.
Have a good night. [:)]
quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
So how does not owning a gun stop a stabbing with a knife?
Ya know what never mind.[:(]
You still completely miss my point but Im done as well, good talk though[8D]
This sounds like a person who is making the argument that the constitution is outdated, and needs to be "modified" to fit the current times [V]
They DO promote the safe enjoyment of shooting, provide training, encourage kids to get involved, partner with Winchester for the Marksmanship programs, AND lobby. Regardless of the those who bash, if we made the NRA more powerful with membership they could press politicians harder, and its kind of like being an American, you will never agree with everything your country does but it's still America.
Those who bash the NRA for their willingness to bend on the Second Amendment are of course entitled to their position, however failure to support a shooting organization that is obviously the most valuable asset we have in Name recognition and public credibility
is IMHO cutting off your nose to spite your face.
NRA does more then anyone else. Still feared by politicians even though the organization is weakened by those who refuse to support for various reasons. While NRA does not meet every individuals needs for the protection of the second amendment, it is the NRA not the Second Amendment Assoc.
They DO promote the safe enjoyment of shooting, provide training, encourage kids to get involved, partner with Winchester for the Marksmanship programs, AND lobby. Regardless of the those who bash, if we made the NRA more powerful with membership they could press politicians harder, and its kind of like being an American, you will never agree with everything your country does but it's still America.
Those who bash the NRA for their willingness to bend on the Second Amendment are of course entitled to their position, however failure to support a shooting organization that is obviously the most valuable asset we have in Name recognition and public credibility
is IMHO cutting off your nose to spite your face.
BS! Another who refuses to recognize that the NRA is falling into the realm of send money and we will do what we want, not those who sent it! Kind of sounds like our present president and congress!
Idahordnk, what happens when everything is a felony? No one has gun rights? Look at how many crimes have been changed from misdemeanors to felony over the years. Now days most states can take from you money just for not wearing seatbelt, if you don't pay fine they will arrest you and possibly throw you in jail. How long before that progression becomes a felony? What's next?
An interesting read:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/cpr-18n5-1.html
The article is hog-wash and as usual, the deliberate shift of focus from individualism as applied to our Constitutional Republic is off base. Abstract individualism theory (near-anarchy) is looked at, while the actuality of the Republic is ignored.
Individualism and society go together just fine.
Individualism and America's Republic are a perfect fit, since our government was founded to provide protection to the individual and our government was given seventeen (17) specific powers and duties ONLY. Government was specifically limited by the Constitution to those powers so that the perfect marriage of government/societal control was present whilst the liberty of the individual in society was maximized.
It is merely a problem when certain segments of that society, particularly predatory-government, take the opposing philosophical position, that being some version of "statism" or "collectivism".
The following quotes encapsulate the concept rather nicely, I think......
"Politically, true individualism means recognizing that one has a right to his own life and happiness. But it also means uniting with other citizens to preserve and defend the institutions that protect that right." -- Shawn E. Klein
...or...
"This right to life, this right to liberty, and this right to pursue one's happiness is unabashedly individualistic, without in the slightest denying at the same time our thoroughly social nature. It's only that our social relations, while vital to us all, must be chosen -- that is what makes the crucial difference." -- Prof. Tibor R. Machan
...or...
"The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society." --Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1816
...or...
"It is strangely absurd to suppose that a million of human beings, collected together, are not under the same moral laws which bind each of them separately." -- Thomas Jefferson
...and specific to you Barzillia.....
"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men."-- John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
There is nothing about Individualism that prevents an orderly, polite society. Our very own government was founded upon the principle of the government protecting the individual, or the minority, from the tyranny of the majority.
Simple stuff really......
Here is what GOA has done, NO COMPROMISE. There is no room for compromise when it comes to RTKBA, or any other constitutional right.
Idahordnk, what happens when everything is a felony? No one has gun rights? Look at how many crimes have been changed from misdemeanors to felony over the years. Now days most states can take from you money just for not wearing seatbelt, if you don't pay fine they will arrest you and possibly throw you in jail. How long before that progression becomes a felony? What's next?
Statism, or Collectivism, in its relentless quest for control and domination over individuals, tends to gradually (or rapidly) criminalize acts that should be the free choice of individuals, thus leading inevitably to some form of totalitarianism.
Do a bit of research on what has actually happened in this once great nation, in the area of criminalization. It doesn't take an advanced degree to puzzle it out.
The road to totalitarianism (or to hell) is paved with good and/or ill, intentions.
"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men."
It is what it is....
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
An interesting read:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/cpr-18n5-1.html
The article is hog-wash and as usual, the deliberate shift of focus from individualism as applied to our Constitutional Republic is off base. Abstract individualism theory (near-anarchy) is looked at, while the actuality of the Republic is ignored.
Individualism and society go together just fine.
Individualism and America's Republic are a perfect fit, since our government was founded to provide protection to the individual and our government was given seventeen (17) specific powers and duties ONLY. Government was specifically limited by the Constitution to those powers so that the perfect marriage of government/societal control was present whilst the liberty of the individual in society was maximized.
It is merely a problem when certain segments of that society, particularly predatory-government, take the opposing philosophical position, that being some version of "statism" or "collectivism".
The following quotes encapsulate the concept rather nicely, I think......
"Politically, true individualism means recognizing that one has a right to his own life and happiness. But it also means uniting with other citizens to preserve and defend the institutions that protect that right." -- Shawn E. Klein
...or...
"This right to life, this right to liberty, and this right to pursue one's happiness is unabashedly individualistic, without in the slightest denying at the same time our thoroughly social nature. It's only that our social relations, while vital to us all, must be chosen -- that is what makes the crucial difference." -- Prof. Tibor R. Machan
...or...
"The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society." --Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1816
...or...
"It is strangely absurd to suppose that a million of human beings, collected together, are not under the same moral laws which bind each of them separately." -- Thomas Jefferson
...and specific to you Barzillia.....
"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men."-- John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
There is nothing about Individualism that prevents an orderly, polite society. Our very own government was founded upon the principle of the government protecting the individual, or the minority, from the tyranny of the majority.
Simple stuff really......
Perhaps you should both read and understand the article before you dismiss it.
Just what do you think the point of the article was ?
Do you not comprehend that the framers of the constitution were classical liberalists ? The Cato institute is a very well considered group sponsoring political philosophy discussion, and very friendly to classical liberalism. Stop grandstanding and playing to the crowd.
If you wish to engage in conversation, then fine. But so far you have offered nothing but demagoguery. I can appreciate your zeal, but I think you are functioning as a loose cannon, just as apt to fire upon those who would be friendly to freedom, as otherwise.
From the article:
"differences cannot be swept away a priori; their resolution is not furthered by shameless distortion, absurd characterizations, or petty name-calling."
Wrong Barzilla Im the lose cannon for I am not sold on the fact that the NRA is selling You down the river although I do see and dont agree with some of their stances, some of the time, they are the only ones out there making a difference be it what you want as the constitution was written which is inevidably what I want, or at least keepin the pressure on the anti gun groups.but times are different now. There are evil people who have access to many more things than they did in 1895, Gun Laws are B.S and I agree..... but when a guy can go out and aquire a machine gun v.s a 54 cal Hawken its different, so that is what I was saying. I guess yeah the Constitution as it was written is as it should be but times are different now and some PEOPLE have bargained away their rights and are no longer fit to own a gun period.
lt496 I dont feel You are trying to please the crowd. Apparently I stirred this Barzilla fella Up and sometimes that happens. I will say this You have a very Unique way of looking at a situation and make even the opposition THINK.
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
An interesting read:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/cpr-18n5-1.html
The article is hog-wash and as usual, the deliberate shift of focus from individualism as applied to our Constitutional Republic is off base. Abstract individualism theory (near-anarchy) is looked at, while the actuality of the Republic is ignored.
Individualism and society go together just fine.
Individualism and America's Republic are a perfect fit, since our government was founded to provide protection to the individual and our government was given seventeen (17) specific powers and duties ONLY. Government was specifically limited by the Constitution to those powers so that the perfect marriage of government/societal control was present whilst the liberty of the individual in society was maximized.
It is merely a problem when certain segments of that society, particularly predatory-government, take the opposing philosophical position, that being some version of "statism" or "collectivism".
The following quotes encapsulate the concept rather nicely, I think......
"Politically, true individualism means recognizing that one has a right to his own life and happiness. But it also means uniting with other citizens to preserve and defend the institutions that protect that right." -- Shawn E. Klein
...or...
"This right to life, this right to liberty, and this right to pursue one's happiness is unabashedly individualistic, without in the slightest denying at the same time our thoroughly social nature. It's only that our social relations, while vital to us all, must be chosen -- that is what makes the crucial difference." -- Prof. Tibor R. Machan
...or...
"The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society." --Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1816
...or...
"It is strangely absurd to suppose that a million of human beings, collected together, are not under the same moral laws which bind each of them separately." -- Thomas Jefferson
...and specific to you Barzillia.....
"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men."-- John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
There is nothing about Individualism that prevents an orderly, polite society. Our very own government was founded upon the principle of the government protecting the individual, or the minority, from the tyranny of the majority.
Simple stuff really......
Perhaps you should both read and understand the article before you dismiss it.
Just what do you think the point of the article was ?
Do you not comprehend that the framers of the constitution were classical liberalists ? The Cato institute is a very well considered group sponsoring political philosophy discussion, and very friendly to classical liberalism. Stop grandstanding and playing to the crowd.
If you wish to engage in conversation, then fine. But so far you have offered nothing but demagoguery. I can appreciate your zeal, but I think you are functioning as a loose cannon, just as apt to fire upon those who would be friendly to freedom, as otherwise.
From the article:
"differences cannot be swept away a priori; their resolution is not furthered by shameless distortion, absurd characterizations, or petty name-calling."
Wrong Barzilla Im the lose cannon for I am not sold on the fact that the NRA is selling You down the river although I do see and dont agree with some of their stances, some of the time, they are the only ones out there making a difference be it what you want as the constitution was written which is inevidably what I want, or at least keepin the pressure on the anti gun groups.but times are different now. There are evil people who have access to many more things than they did in 1895, Gun Laws are B.S and I agree..... but when a guy can go out and aquire a machine gun v.s a 54 cal Hawken its different, so that is what I was saying. I guess yeah the Constitution as it was written is as it should be but times are different now and some PEOPLE have bargained away their rights and are no longer fit to own a gun period.
lt496 I dont feel You are trying to please the crowd. Apparently I stirred this Barzilla fella Up and sometimes that happens. I will say this You have a very Unique way of looking at a situation and make even the opposition THINK.
Not enough good things can be said about this man. If you read his posts you can really LEARN.