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My transfer policy at the store....
Locust Fork
Member Posts: 32,073 ✭✭✭✭
I had something come up and didn't get to check in last nite. The thread about jerks w/ FFLs is locked now because of the bad attitude of some and I didn't get a chance to answer....
I don't charge a dollar for transfers. I have from time to time....but normally I don't charge at all for doing it.
The reason I wouldn't want to let another FFL walk out with any guns and I would insist on shipping is because ITS NOT HOW THINGS NORMALLY ARE DONE. Its as simple as that. Who knows what the traffic of weapons laws are......who knows what the State restrictions are that these guns are travelling through....who knows if this person is actually the FFL holder.....and in the middle of an average working day at the store I do not have time to gather my thoughts and check into all of this. I really don't like the idea of MY store being a distributorship for another business either.
I call around, scrape together, dicker and fuss to keep a GREAT mix of wonderful deals in stock. These items are for customers that I hope to keep interrested in my store. If a guy comes in and over time I get to know him I will eventually know him well enough to KNOW when I have found something he will buy. I hope that people spend their lunch hours with me..... I hope that wives come in asking what the husband has been looking at.... I hope men bring their sons in to pick out first hunting rifles.... I want parents to bring daughters in to get a self protection weapon when they are moving away..... NEVER have I wanted some other seller to come in and leave with some SUPER deal I have fought to get just to re-sell it themselves. Anyone who thinks a seller is "rude" for not being appreciative of the sale to another dealer is NOT looking at the big picture.
The internet has changed the gun market for good. Some of my father's very best customers come in the store at least once a week....but rarely buy anything. I'm glad they come in. I do LOTS of transfers for them....but the old days where they were limited to the selections my father would stock in his store are gone. I cannot compete with the internet. I use this the best I can to benefit me. I get to see some of the BEST firearms in what is sent to them. I can check out weapons that I have questions about in minutes.
The guns I own.....when they transfer out....I make a profit. The guns that are sent in by other dealers and I transfer out....NO profit. I don't see what the confusion in that statement was....but no matter. My point is....I don't mind transfers to customers....but I do NOT like the idea of other sellers grabbing up deals in my store. The deals are there to TRY and build a business with regular customers.
I don't charge a dollar for transfers. I have from time to time....but normally I don't charge at all for doing it.
The reason I wouldn't want to let another FFL walk out with any guns and I would insist on shipping is because ITS NOT HOW THINGS NORMALLY ARE DONE. Its as simple as that. Who knows what the traffic of weapons laws are......who knows what the State restrictions are that these guns are travelling through....who knows if this person is actually the FFL holder.....and in the middle of an average working day at the store I do not have time to gather my thoughts and check into all of this. I really don't like the idea of MY store being a distributorship for another business either.
I call around, scrape together, dicker and fuss to keep a GREAT mix of wonderful deals in stock. These items are for customers that I hope to keep interrested in my store. If a guy comes in and over time I get to know him I will eventually know him well enough to KNOW when I have found something he will buy. I hope that people spend their lunch hours with me..... I hope that wives come in asking what the husband has been looking at.... I hope men bring their sons in to pick out first hunting rifles.... I want parents to bring daughters in to get a self protection weapon when they are moving away..... NEVER have I wanted some other seller to come in and leave with some SUPER deal I have fought to get just to re-sell it themselves. Anyone who thinks a seller is "rude" for not being appreciative of the sale to another dealer is NOT looking at the big picture.
The internet has changed the gun market for good. Some of my father's very best customers come in the store at least once a week....but rarely buy anything. I'm glad they come in. I do LOTS of transfers for them....but the old days where they were limited to the selections my father would stock in his store are gone. I cannot compete with the internet. I use this the best I can to benefit me. I get to see some of the BEST firearms in what is sent to them. I can check out weapons that I have questions about in minutes.
The guns I own.....when they transfer out....I make a profit. The guns that are sent in by other dealers and I transfer out....NO profit. I don't see what the confusion in that statement was....but no matter. My point is....I don't mind transfers to customers....but I do NOT like the idea of other sellers grabbing up deals in my store. The deals are there to TRY and build a business with regular customers.
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Comments
If I had driven all the way to Florida for this deal, and then been told I could PAY for my guns but not receive them now, and have to WAIT for them to be shipped, I would have been mildly peeved.
You don't ever make bulk deals with other dealers?
The only bulk deals I make are to BUY. A person who sells at a bulk price is in need of money....or doesn't like to sell guns. I have been called by other stores that needed quick cash....and also called to buy the guns that other pawn shops have in inventory. Collectors are the hardest bulk purchase deals. They spend years picking and falling in love with items....and if the time comes for them to sell they don't quite understand that you should pay LESS if you are buying the lot.
I buy bulk. I pay cash. I carry away. All nice and legal.
https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/
No way would I let some guy walk in with an out of state ffl that did not have his name on it and let him walk out of the store with a gun.
Not without calling the one who signed it and verify that he knew that his ffl was being used to obtain an out of state firearm.
Thats how I read the original thread and I also saw a person who had a copy of someone elses ffl who seemed to be on a bit of a power trip thinking he owned the purchase rights to anything he wanted and how he wanted the transaction to go through.
And when the seller would not sell to the buyers ever whim, the buyer threw a little fit.
Does not a transfer require filling out a 4473 and calling in the background check?
Transfer from FFL to customer, YES.
Transfer from FFL to FFL, NO.
PLUS, you can move some CRAP this way sometimes!!!!!!
Merc
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
It may be legal....but the point of having a retail store is to build a nice business with customers. Selling in bulk at a discount to other sellers is like cutting off your feet to get a 10 pace advantage in a race. It does no good.
#1
Teton Sporting goods a crooked outfit contacts LF to purchase 100 pistols that are illegal in NY. Teton sends Jackleg Crackhead to her shop with an FFL to pick them up. The 100 pistols does not go to Teton in WV. Instead they are hauled to NY and sold on the street. They then are traced back to LF. Why? she has no proof as to where they went after they left her shop. How do the FEDs know that SHE was not the one whom hauled them to NY? By making it a policy to ship in store sales to out of state FFL's buyers her butt is covered.
#2
If she sold over the counter to me an FFL holder, say 100 long arms today for $50,000 lump sum. When will the next FFL holder be in the store to make such a purchase, Tomorrow, Next week and Year from now?
By building a good local customer base the income will not come in lump sums. But it is steady along with extra income from accessories, ammo and such that these guys come back looking for or need. Myself I would rather have 500 "regular" customers suppling me with say $2500 a month income than sale $50 grand worth today and not know when I will make another such sale. And I cant reply on Nunn coming into my shop every three or four months dropping $50 grand on my desk. But I can just about count on the 500 that has bought a gun from me this year coming back buying ammo and such as long as they know I am giving them a good deal and will treat them right.
i side with LF on this thread.
theres more to having a store than moving inventory and making profit.
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
It does....BUT if you have an FFL you aren't supposed to have to do a 4473. You can, but to buy guns you aren't required to. I have gone in and bought guns at stores and it is just easier to fill out a sheet. Its too aggrivating to try and explain things to an employee....and it all ends up fine if I do a 4473. I have gone in and bought guns, got a sheet and been told "We can just log it out to your FFL." I appreciate the guys that know what they are doing, but I can work around it either way.
So you go to shops, buy guns, show your FFL and walk out with them, but you don't let other dealers do that at your shop. nice...
ford...LF was discussing BULK purchases. if an ffl sees something he likes in passing thru, im sure LF would sell it.
i side with LF on this thread.
theres more to having a store than moving inventory and making profit.
according to LFs previous posts they won't let anyone walk out with a single gun on an FFL. LF's quote from the other thread
"If you came in my store I wouldn't let you walk out with a gun just because you have an FFL. I would ship it to the FFL address and you would have to pay the shipping."
In the instance of the Jerks W/ffl thread, the guy holding the ffl was not the guy who signed it.
And I think this is where the shop owner was correct - he has no idea if the guns he just transferred to another FFL were gonna go where they had to, get logged in, etc. and unless the 2 FFL holders are together face to face, who knows. Heck, by comparing 3 or 5 FFLs and using ez-check you can probably pick out a random FFL number...
I've taken a friends FFL to a gun show, and a blank check from him, as well as his cell phone (this is when cell phones were Doctor only kinda things). Instructions were to find a particular something. Said somethign was found, I called my friend to OK price, wrote the check, handed the guy check w/ some extra and FFL, told him to ship it.
What earthly good is a "deal" if one has to pay shipping & an FFL fee (typically $20) at the other end?
Doesn't sound so hot to me, but then I'm a skinflint.
[:0]barto[:0]
seems he said he was going tohav eit shipped , so what the heck is the big deal
Since I'm the one who used "rude" I'll apologize. It wasn't meant in respect to transactions between dealers,but to mention the 'macho' attitudes of a couple of local dealers toward their potential customers.
Maybe I should have used "arrogant" rather than "rude"! (I have met at least one Marine DI thats easier for this old grey bearded holler boy to talk to)
Now that's out of the way. I went back and saw where the original poster said that 'shipping was already added' Which leads me to believe that he wasn't asking to 'walk out the door' with the gun.
Maybe I'm wrong there too. [V]
Allen
If an FFL wants to come in and buy 50% of your stock on hand at your asking price, so what?
Your making every penny you would have selling them individually. There isn't going to be competetion from that sale, as they buyer couldn't sell that stock for the same price and make a profit.
You worry about your customers having guns to oogle. Well, if they were inclined to BUY them, they would have. What makes the difference WHO buys them? A business (a sucessful one anyway) runs on profits, not window shoppers. Nice guys finish LAST in business.
Don't sell in bulk, makes no difference. Your cutting out your own profits.
I have walked into a pawn shop, and have hauled off as many as 200 guns. Paid cash. Gave the owner a signed copy of my FFL. Showed owner my DL for ID verification.
If I had driven all the way to Florida for this deal, and then been told I could PAY for my guns but not receive them now, and have to WAIT for them to be shipped, I would have been mildly peeved.
You don't ever make bulk deals with other dealers?
+100 David...All that stuff about weapons laws and state restrictions are NOT LF's concern. Once the firearms are in the hands of another dealer, they are no longer her responsibility and she has absolutely NO liability for said items.
I think what Locust Fork is getting at and I will use a now shut down by the AFT local dealer as an example.
#1
Teton Sporting goods a crooked outfit contacts LF to purchase 100 pistols that are illegal in NY. Teton sends Jackleg Crackhead to her shop with an FFL to pick them up. The 100 pistols does not go to Teton in WV. Instead they are hauled to NY and sold on the street. They then are traced back to LF. Why? she has no proof as to where they went after they left her shop. How do the FEDs know that SHE was not the one whom hauled them to NY? By making it a policy to ship in store sales to out of state FFL's buyers her butt is covered.
#2
If she sold over the counter to me an FFL holder, say 100 long arms today for $50,000 lump sum. When will the next FFL holder be in the store to make such a purchase, Tomorrow, Next week and Year from now?
By building a good local customer base the income will not come in lump sums. But it is steady along with extra income from accessories, ammo and such that these guys come back looking for or need. Myself I would rather have 500 "regular" customers suppling me with say $2500 a month income than sale $50 grand worth today and not know when I will make another such sale. And I cant reply on Nunn coming into my shop every three or four months dropping $50 grand on my desk. But I can just about count on the 500 that has bought a gun from me this year coming back buying ammo and such as long as they know I am giving them a good deal and will treat them right.
#1...she does have proof...a signed copy of their FFL
#2...I understand the point, but me, this would be akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face. Business is business. When those $50,000 worth of guns are gone, they can easily be replaced for new inventory for your local customers (provided they are not black guns in todays market).
quote:Originally posted by bobski
ford...LF was discussing BULK purchases. if an ffl sees something he likes in passing thru, im sure LF would sell it.
i side with LF on this thread.
theres more to having a store than moving inventory and making profit.
according to LFs previous posts they won't let anyone walk out with a single gun on an FFL. LF's quote from the other thread
"If you came in my store I wouldn't let you walk out with a gun just because you have an FFL. I would ship it to the FFL address and you would have to pay the shipping."
I would have to say that I do not agree with LF's position here at all.
if person a walks into her shop with a signed copy of person b's ffl, she will only ship the gun to the ffl holder and not hand it to person a(which i agree with).
now as far as bulk sales to other dealers, if she can make her bills every month but not dealing with other ffl's in this manner, then by all means she can run her shop her way. hell, even if she cant pay the bills, its her right to run her shop right into the ground if she wanted to. i dont thinks its anybodies place to criticize how she decided to run her business.
And....I never said I asked to be able to use my FFL. When I buy from other local dealers I fill out a 4473. Some stores KNOW I am a dealer and they are the ones that OFFER to log them out to my license.
You guys need to read what LesWVa wrote to understand.
Nobody who is in business for any LONG period of time could see this differently. I don't know ONE dealer in this area that has a serious store that would do things differently than I do.
...A pawn shop that doesn't make deals? Does the store owner not allow deals or is it your policy and accepted I suspose, by the owner?
I guess in your State a business does not inventory, handling every single item in the store, and is taxed, based on the value of the unsold inventory every year? I thought this was part of the Federal Tax Code for a retail, stocking business.
...More than one way to melt butter LF. Wow...I'd have all my net gun buys sent to your pawn shop if I were close by...no transfer fee huh?
Hell, I'd charge a minimum anyway...like my 01, $10...or even $20 bucks, easy quick money. Around here some of these fools charge up to $75 bucks per transfer...I don't/wouldn't use them...which pretty much keeps me out of their stores and from buying a gun or other related items; announcing your going to rip me off, you will not be getting any of my money.
$30 bucks around here for a transfer and you could do a TON of transfers.
I understand the "family" type enviro thing you seem to want to promote.
One friend I know wont make "deals" either. I KNOW he has items that he has had for several years, has handled these guns EVERY year at EOY inventory, and has paid tax on each of the items because they do add to his inventory value, every year...I just can't see the wisdom of doing this year after year; actually putting MORE money into the cost of each gun/item (TIME inventorying & tax paid) so when sold at his price, he makes even less profit.
At least here in Texas, inventory (stock) not turned has it's value calculated into the overall store stock at inventory and the appropriate tax paid so..handling unsold items for yearly inventory = time, which = money, which one needs to calculate into the actual "cost" owner has in each item; so for every year an item may sit unsold, the higher the "cost" in each item which in most cases = less profit in the item when it is sold...in essence "feeding the item", which does cost.
...Which brings to mind another business owner friend's saying when ask by a customer "is that price the bottom dollar price?"..he always answers "I'm already married to my wife & I already have a pet, just call me Monty Hall and lets make a deal!"...and 99% of the time he sells the item and makes what he needs to make profit wise and NEVER has to handle that item again, gains a customer and that customer brings him in several other customers...[;)]
ARE you a dealer/licensee, or do you work for a dealer/licensee?
quote:I don't know ONE dealer in this area that has a serious store that would do things differently than I do.
I have made some serious bulk buys of guns, jewelry, TVs, tools, whatever struck my fancy, at "serious stores." Some were mom & pop stores, and others were part of a chain. Even "serious" stores can sometime use an infusion of fast cash.
Maybe "it isn't eating much sitting there," but sometimes a fast dime is better than a slow dollar. I am happy for you that you can leave everything just sitting there until someone pays asking price for it. I am happier to do business with pawn shops which will dump a lot of stuff fast so I can make money on it.
There are some INSANE deals in the store! Right now there are several nice hunting rifles for $299 (with decent scopes.) But.....I'd rather have them sell one by one to someone who will be back again and again than to have someone come in and grab the deals up. The transfers are no big deal...and it is very little of my time to do them. The only time I get aggrivated over them is when they are coming IN from an individual...and not another FFL. These transfers have WAY more potential to be trouble. They seldom include any kind of "in" paperwork.
Simple. No copy of FFL or picture ID with gun, no transfer. It stays right there in the safe until the ID shows up. All that is explained in the terms attached to my FFL copy. I had to write those terms up after getting bit a couple of times. I got guns in, and the only indication of where they came from was the return address of a pack & postal center. No more. All the terms are spelled right out for the seller and transferee alike.
I also don't do transfers for free. Repeat customers get a discount, but I don't work free.
I, like anyone else, is allways looking for a good deal. If you would rather keep them for "locals", then do so. I won't bother you with MY bids, now, or in the future. The attitude you have expressed, IMO, is more than a bit "snobby". I don't like dealing with people like you, or ANY business you represent. There are plenty of good dealers on this site, that would appreciate my business.
I TOO like buying local, when the situation warrents. IF they have the product I want, at the price I am willing to pay, then yes, I choose then to buy local. However, when they can't fit that criteria, I look elsewhere.
The only time I get aggrivated over them is when they are coming IN from an individual...and not another FFL. These transfers have WAY more potential to be trouble. They seldom include any kind of "in" paperwork.
Last time I bought something from you my "IN" FFL grumbled that your "Out" paper was non-existent. I guess that everyone drops the ball from time to time.
Freemind....whatever...you sound like one of those types that just like to argue EVEN THOUGH they have no "dog in the fight."
Here is something for you NOT to bid on.....
Penny no reserve! AR lower!!!!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=117262354
Freemind....whatever...you sound like one of those types that just like to argue EVEN THOUGH they have no "dog in the fight."
Here is something for you NOT to bid on.....
Penny no reserve! AR lower!!!!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=117262354
No dog in the fight eh? Ya, your right, I wasn't a potential customer was I? YOUR loss, not mine. I will find what I am after to purchase, but it won't be from you. Folks can laugh and sluff it off, BUT I truely DO have a list of sellers written down NOT to bid on their auctions.
I ment what I said LF, I ain't looking or bidding on your auctions. I don't care about argueing, but I certainly don't mind pointing out a persons shortcommings when it has to do with me.
The transfers are no big deal...and it is very little of my time to do them.
you're the only ffl ive ever heard openly admit that. most of you folks * and moan relentlessly about the amount of work it takes to do a transfer, hence the $75 fees. i've known they were full of chit since the forst time i heard that line. its just nice to hear somebody who actually admits the truth.
in any event, very little of what you sell in my are of interest is mass compliant so until such time as i relocate to a non communist state, we wont be doing business together. not because i dislike you or your policies though.........