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quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
I know a guy that shot a deer with a .50 BMG from an M82A1 at 100 yards. That is the definition of ruined meat...not anything that an -06 can do.
How did he get it in the tree stand?
He fired it off of the picnic table on his back deck.
quote:Originally posted by LesWVa
quote:Originally posted by tomahawk
use a 125 grain bullet and you wont have that problem
+200 on that.
Have a friend that has been reloading 30-06 ammo for years to use for deer hunting. 95% of the time he uses 110 to 125 grain bullets. Those small bullets pack a huge punch and 90% of the time they will turn the heart cavity into mush and the bullet will not even exit the animal. He started hand loading his deer ammo after most of the factory ammo only offered 150 grain, 165 grain or 180 grain bullets.
You do not need a big gun nor bullet to put meat in the freezer. A well trained 11 year old can do it easily with 95 grain Federal .243 ammo if given the chance.
great pictures except for the rifle pointing right at the youngster,,,,
quote:Originally posted by andrewsw16
The 30-06 is an excellent cartridge for just about any game on this continent, as long as you choose the right bullet and powder loading. That is the real strength of the 30-06. i.e. it's WIDE versatility. You can load anywhere from rabbit poppers to locomotive stoppers. [:D]
Exactly, you can even sabbot it down to a 25-06, it can be swagged to a 30-30 balistics, it can be hot loaded to make a great moose gun.....
Even if you don't reload, you don't have to pick 200 or 180 gain bullets, 150 gain bullet in a 30-06 won't tear up a deer size animal, 180 grain makes it a great elk gun and 200 grain makes it an exceptabe for moose.
All in all, I believe the 30-06 is the only gun for someone that doesn't have, or can't afford multible rifles if they hunt multible sized game.
Hell, even though I have multible guns for every sized game I hunt, it seems I almost always "just" use my first center fire rifle, which by the way IS an ought six
quote:Originally posted by JustC
quote:Originally posted by JimmyJack
Im glad to see the majority of the smart hunters realize that ballistic tips are not the best. It is not necessary to blow a hole as large as a grapefruit.
define smart?[}:)]
I don't have to track my deer[8] But then again, I can hit them correctly as well[;)] If all the "smart" hunters spent as much time on the bench, as they did on the keyboard, they would know that the balistic tip is the most devatating hunting bullet ever made. BUT, I can leagally shoot over 40 deer per season here, so maybe my experience is, in some way, biased[8D]
Yep, success can throw your statistics way off.[}:)]
My experience with ballistic tips was that the rifles I tried them in did not like them. I got better accuracy with other cartridges. Go figger.
I too am a fan of BTs for Montana deer size game and smaller ... have .180gr BT load for my .300 WM and .150gr BT for my .270 Win.
As others have already noted, it's all about the shot placement. The most damage I ever had shot (~ 200 yards) with BT was 2 broken ribs exit wound ~ 3" in diameter on a fawn pronghorn antelope and muley doe - no significant meat damage, just meat around the ribs ... the internal organs are a different story - it was all souped up. Both dropped on spot and no tracking involved. [:p]
Interesting topic. I've used ballistic tips in .270 with good success, but man they savage the innards! I did, however, lose a really nice buck shot with a 140 gr BT in 2006. I know it broke the onside shoulder, because I could see the leg flopping as he ran off, trailed him for a mile then no blood. Neighbor shot at him 3 weeks later during muzzleloader season, but missed.
The elk guides in CO had nothing good to say about them, but you never know how good the shots are. I wouldn't put one up on an elk shoulder, don't know about the ribs either.
I also think that if you want less meat damage, use the heavier bullets, less projectile disruption. But that's just my theory.
JUST C absolutely knows of what he speaks...
I use 140 BT's in my 284 and 7mm SAUM and they flat out kill stuff right now...
What little shoulder meat is ruined makes up for it running off to end up in someone elses freezer...
JustC, you make a great point. Except for one misplaced shot that I shouldn't have taken, every deer I've hit has been dropped. I hate chasing game and have done so for others.
Since folks seem to want to know, I was using 180gr ballistic tipped ammo this year, OTC Federal trophy bonded tip (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=758).And my range was about 175yards. I don't usually use this exact load, usually soft points in the range of 165gr to 180gr since I like to sight my rifle in once and use it for both deer and elk and where I hunt my shooting distance can range from 25 feet to 500yards plus.
For this year's deer, I had been chatting with my cousin about shot placement. He'd been watching some hunting show where the guide continually dropped animals where the reaction upon hit was for the animal to "hop" up (legs contracting inward) and fall over dead. Consistently he got these results. After a host of viewers wrote/called/whatever in asking, the guy explained that he aimed for a nerve center high on the shoulder to achieve the results.
I gave it a shot this time. (pardon the bad pun)
I got identical results-- hop, then dead. However, in this hunt I noted that the damage on the exit was extensive. The exit wound was only about baseball size or a little smaller, but it was obvious that the shock wave had damaged a considerably larger area, both on entrance and at the exit actually.
It made me think back to what I'd observed in years past, that no matter where I placed the shot, the result was a large damaged area around the actual wound channel.
I guess there is something to be said for dropping an animal DRT and not having to track it, but it just seems to me there are ways to accomplish this without being so destructive.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
JustC, you make a great point. Except for one misplaced shot that I shouldn't have taken, every deer I've hit has been dropped. I hate chasing game and have done so for others.
Since folks seem to want to know, I was using 180gr ballistic tipped ammo this year, OTC Federal trophy bonded tip (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=758).And my range was about 175yards. I don't usually use this exact load, usually soft points in the range of 165gr to 180gr since I like to sight my rifle in once and use it for both deer and elk and where I hunt my shooting distance can range from 25 feet to 500yards plus.
For this year's deer, I had been chatting with my cousin about shot placement. He'd been watching some hunting show where the guide continually dropped animals where the reaction upon hit was for the animal to "hop" up (legs contracting inward) and fall over dead. Consistently he got these results. After a host of viewers wrote/called/whatever in asking, the guy explained that he aimed for a nerve center high on the shoulder to achieve the results.
I gave it a shot this time. (pardon the bad pun)
I got identical results-- hop, then dead. However, in this hunt I noted that the damage on the exit was extensive. The exit wound was only about baseball size or a little smaller, but it was obvious that the shock wave had damaged a considerably larger area, both on entrance and at the exit actually.
It made me think back to what I'd observed in years past, that no matter where I placed the shot, the result was a large damaged area around the actual wound channel.
I guess there is something to be said for dropping an animal DRT and not having to track it, but it just seems to me there are ways to accomplish this without being so destructive.
tracking an animal is a crappy task. I prefer to lose a few pounds of meat (shoulder shot) than to track an animal that you MAY or MAY NOT find. My personal pet peeve, is hitting an animal, and not finding it[V] you KNOW you hit that animal right, but it runs off and dies somewhere where you never find it[:(] The balistic tip makes that a non-issue. they drop RIGHT THERE, or very close to where you shot them. If not, they leave a blood trail Ray Charles could follow. I have yet to track a deer that was hit correctly, with a balistic tip, that went more than 50yds, and that has been rare.
You have to understand, I have used these bullets on crop damage permits, and for hunting. I have dropped no less than 200-300 deer using these bullets. It is not unusual for us to shoot 8-10 deer in one afternoon on crop damage permits. They fly like a match bullet, and hit like a land mine[}:)] Why else would you think the other companies, (Remington, Hornady, Winchester) etc have started making bullets with a polycarbonate tip? Even Barnes has added it to their solid bullets. It is because of the extreme success Nosler has had with Their Balistic Tip hunting bullets.
Ballistic tips are an excellent choice on game. I took many deer with my 30-06 over the years with much the same results, damaged meat and large exit wounds. For the past 4 or 5 season I have had great success no damaged meat with a magic little pill 120 grain 25-06. The best deer caliber... [;)]
quote:Originally posted by NOSLEEP
Ballistic tips are an excellent choice on game. I took many deer with my 30-06 over the years with much the same results, damaged meat and large exit wounds. For the past 4 or 5 season I have had great success no damaged meat with a magic little pill 120 grain 25-06. The best deer caliber... [;)]
Since I'm considering a .243, how does the recoil of that compare with the 25-06?
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by NOSLEEP
.243 100gr = 8.8 fps of recoil
25-06 120gr = 12.5 fps of recoil
30-06 180gr = 20.3 fps of recoil
Both are either side of half the 30.06 recoil. I like it! And it appears the 25-06 shoots very flat as well. I really like that.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by eboydell
Well, Mr.Green Peace, buy a single shot .17, and step back 500 yards and shoot from there...feel better?[;)]
wanting to minimize destroyed meat makes me mr. greenpeace?
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by eboydell
Well, Mr.Green Peace, buy a single shot .17, and step back 500 yards and shoot from there...feel better?[;)]
wanting to minimize destroyed meat makes me mr. greenpeace?
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by eboydell
Well, Mr.Green Peace, buy a single shot .17, and step back 500 yards and shoot from there...feel better?[;)]
wanting to minimize destroyed meat makes me mr. greenpeace?
The thought "Use enough gun" comes to mind...
my whole point is that the 30.06 is MORE than enough.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by eboydell
Well, Mr.Green Peace, buy a single shot .17, and step back 500 yards and shoot from there...feel better?[;)]
wanting to minimize destroyed meat makes me mr. greenpeace?
The thought "Use enough gun" comes to mind...
my whole point is that the 30.06 is MORE than enough.
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by eboydell
Well, Mr.Green Peace, buy a single shot .17, and step back 500 yards and shoot from there...feel better?[;)]
wanting to minimize destroyed meat makes me mr. greenpeace?
The thought "Use enough gun" comes to mind...
my whole point is that the 30.06 is MORE than enough.
Try a .308 then.
30-06 and .308 are the same when it comes to bullet sizes.
30-06 solid lead bullets tho are often found to be .309 dia.
quote:Originally posted by NOSLEEP
.243 100gr = 8.8 fps of recoil
25-06 120gr = 12.5 fps of recoil
30-06 180gr = 20.3 fps of recoil
Recoil depends (but not exclusively) on (1) bullet weight in grains, (2) velocity in fps, (3) powder charge in grains, and (4)weight of firearm in lbs. An of course, felt recoil depends on the shooter's sensitivity - it is different for each person, what is excessive for me might not be for you and vice versa.
.25-06/.30-06
Bullet weight in grains: 120 HP/180 SBT
Velocity in fps: 2781/2604
Powder charge in grains: 48 H4831/55 H4831
Weight of firearm in lbs: 8/14
Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec): 2.33/3.06
Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps): 9.39/7.03
Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs): 10.95/10.74
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
I know a guy that shot a deer with a .50 BMG from an M82A1 at 100 yards. That is the definition of ruined meat...not anything that an -06 can do.
You mean 50BMG is too big for deer?
Next thing you'll be saying is that I shouldn't use 30-06 is too much gun for a squirrel!!
I always thought it was a given that if you shoot one behind the shoulder you are going to loose at least half of the shoulder on the opposite side.
I always have anyways, whether it be 30-30 with Corelokts, a Muszzleloader with several bullets (370grain non-expanding maxiball to 240gr hollowpoints) and 30-06 whether it be a 150gr ballistic tip or 180gr corelokt.
Simple fact is (barring a headshot) any caliber that puts a deer down in its tracks (eg. humanely) is going to cause meat damage. After all if it don't damage some meat/tissue it ain't going to kill a deer
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
quote:Originally posted by NOSLEEP
.243 100gr = 8.8 fps of recoil
25-06 120gr = 12.5 fps of recoil
30-06 180gr = 20.3 fps of recoil
Recoil depends (but not exclusively) on (1) bullet weight in grains, (2) velocity in fps, (3) powder charge in grains, and (4)weight of firearm in lbs. An of course, felt recoil depends on the shooter's sensitivity - it is different for each person, what is excessive for me might not be for you and vice versa.
.25-06/.30-06
Bullet weight in grains: 120 HP/180 SBT
Velocity in fps: 2781/2604
Powder charge in grains: 48 H4831/55 H4831
Weight of firearm in lbs: 8/14
Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec): 2.33/3.06
Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps): 9.39/7.03
Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs): 10.95/10.74
I was with you up to the 8 lbs (25-06) rifle compared to the 14 lbs (30-06) rifle ???? That rifle weight is going to make all the difference in the world to perceived felt recoil...
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
quote:Originally posted by NOSLEEP
.243 100gr = 8.8 fps of recoil
25-06 120gr = 12.5 fps of recoil
30-06 180gr = 20.3 fps of recoil
Recoil depends (but not exclusively) on (1) bullet weight in grains, (2) velocity in fps, (3) powder charge in grains, and (4)weight of firearm in lbs. An of course, felt recoil depends on the shooter's sensitivity - it is different for each person, what is excessive for me might not be for you and vice versa.
.25-06/.30-06
Bullet weight in grains: 120 HP/180 SBT
Velocity in fps: 2781/2604
Powder charge in grains: 48 H4831/55 H4831
Weight of firearm in lbs: 8/14
Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec): 2.33/3.06
Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps): 9.39/7.03
Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs): 10.95/10.74
quote:Originally posted by utbrowningman
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
quote:Originally posted by NOSLEEP
.243 100gr = 8.8 fps of recoil
25-06 120gr = 12.5 fps of recoil
30-06 180gr = 20.3 fps of recoil
Recoil depends (but not exclusively) on (1) bullet weight in grains, (2) velocity in fps, (3) powder charge in grains, and (4)weight of firearm in lbs. An of course, felt recoil depends on the shooter's sensitivity - it is different for each person, what is excessive for me might not be for you and vice versa.
.25-06/.30-06
Bullet weight in grains: 120 HP/180 SBT
Velocity in fps: 2781/2604
Powder charge in grains: 48 H4831/55 H4831
Weight of firearm in lbs: 8/14
Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec): 2.33/3.06
Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps): 9.39/7.03
Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs): 10.95/10.74
Don't know a hunter that lugs around a 14 pound 30-06. And for the record, I use a 30-06.
I am not suggesting you carry a 14 pound rifle ... just making a point that weight of a rifle is a factor in recoil reduction.
My primary hunting rifles (.300 WM and .338 WM) scoped, with bipod, and loaded hunt ready is about ~14 pounds and I lug them up, down, and around the Little Belt mountains of Montana for 5-10 miles on a typical day hunt. In addition, ~30 pounds of gear (binocs, range finder, spotting scope), food, water, etc ...
Comments
Beautiful thread.
All the comments from the 06 crowd about bullet selection and shot placement have me wondering...
Is this where you link to all the .223 deerslayer threads? Or are you going to let it run on a bit longer?[:)]
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
I know a guy that shot a deer with a .50 BMG from an M82A1 at 100 yards. That is the definition of ruined meat...not anything that an -06 can do.
How did he get it in the tree stand?
He fired it off of the picnic table on his back deck.
quote:Originally posted by tomahawk
use a 125 grain bullet and you wont have that problem
+200 on that.
Have a friend that has been reloading 30-06 ammo for years to use for deer hunting. 95% of the time he uses 110 to 125 grain bullets. Those small bullets pack a huge punch and 90% of the time they will turn the heart cavity into mush and the bullet will not even exit the animal. He started hand loading his deer ammo after most of the factory ammo only offered 150 grain, 165 grain or 180 grain bullets.
You do not need a big gun nor bullet to put meat in the freezer. A well trained 11 year old can do it easily with 95 grain Federal .243 ammo if given the chance.
great pictures except for the rifle pointing right at the youngster,,,,
The 30-06 is an excellent cartridge for just about any game on this continent, as long as you choose the right bullet and powder loading. That is the real strength of the 30-06. i.e. it's WIDE versatility. You can load anywhere from rabbit poppers to locomotive stoppers. [:D]
Exactly, you can even sabbot it down to a 25-06, it can be swagged to a 30-30 balistics, it can be hot loaded to make a great moose gun.....
Even if you don't reload, you don't have to pick 200 or 180 gain bullets, 150 gain bullet in a 30-06 won't tear up a deer size animal, 180 grain makes it a great elk gun and 200 grain makes it an exceptabe for moose.
All in all, I believe the 30-06 is the only gun for someone that doesn't have, or can't afford multible rifles if they hunt multible sized game.
Hell, even though I have multible guns for every sized game I hunt, it seems I almost always "just" use my first center fire rifle, which by the way IS an ought six
quote:Originally posted by JimmyJack
Im glad to see the majority of the smart hunters realize that ballistic tips are not the best. It is not necessary to blow a hole as large as a grapefruit.
define smart?[}:)]
I don't have to track my deer[8] But then again, I can hit them correctly as well[;)] If all the "smart" hunters spent as much time on the bench, as they did on the keyboard, they would know that the balistic tip is the most devatating hunting bullet ever made. BUT, I can leagally shoot over 40 deer per season here, so maybe my experience is, in some way, biased[8D]
Yep, success can throw your statistics way off.[}:)]
My experience with ballistic tips was that the rifles I tried them in did not like them. I got better accuracy with other cartridges. Go figger.
As others have already noted, it's all about the shot placement. The most damage I ever had shot (~ 200 yards) with BT was 2 broken ribs exit wound ~ 3" in diameter on a fawn pronghorn antelope and muley doe - no significant meat damage, just meat around the ribs ... the internal organs are a different story - it was all souped up. Both dropped on spot and no tracking involved. [:p]
The elk guides in CO had nothing good to say about them, but you never know how good the shots are. I wouldn't put one up on an elk shoulder, don't know about the ribs either.
I also think that if you want less meat damage, use the heavier bullets, less projectile disruption. But that's just my theory.
KC
I use 140 BT's in my 284 and 7mm SAUM and they flat out kill stuff right now...
What little shoulder meat is ruined makes up for it running off to end up in someone elses freezer...
great pictures except for the rifle pointing right at the youngster,,,,
Optical illusion..
The rifle barrel is actually behind him.
Since folks seem to want to know, I was using 180gr ballistic tipped ammo this year, OTC Federal trophy bonded tip (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=758).And my range was about 175yards. I don't usually use this exact load, usually soft points in the range of 165gr to 180gr since I like to sight my rifle in once and use it for both deer and elk and where I hunt my shooting distance can range from 25 feet to 500yards plus.
For this year's deer, I had been chatting with my cousin about shot placement. He'd been watching some hunting show where the guide continually dropped animals where the reaction upon hit was for the animal to "hop" up (legs contracting inward) and fall over dead. Consistently he got these results. After a host of viewers wrote/called/whatever in asking, the guy explained that he aimed for a nerve center high on the shoulder to achieve the results.
I gave it a shot this time. (pardon the bad pun)
I got identical results-- hop, then dead. However, in this hunt I noted that the damage on the exit was extensive. The exit wound was only about baseball size or a little smaller, but it was obvious that the shock wave had damaged a considerably larger area, both on entrance and at the exit actually.
It made me think back to what I'd observed in years past, that no matter where I placed the shot, the result was a large damaged area around the actual wound channel.
I guess there is something to be said for dropping an animal DRT and not having to track it, but it just seems to me there are ways to accomplish this without being so destructive.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Great deer rifle.
JustC, you make a great point. Except for one misplaced shot that I shouldn't have taken, every deer I've hit has been dropped. I hate chasing game and have done so for others.
Since folks seem to want to know, I was using 180gr ballistic tipped ammo this year, OTC Federal trophy bonded tip (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=758).And my range was about 175yards. I don't usually use this exact load, usually soft points in the range of 165gr to 180gr since I like to sight my rifle in once and use it for both deer and elk and where I hunt my shooting distance can range from 25 feet to 500yards plus.
For this year's deer, I had been chatting with my cousin about shot placement. He'd been watching some hunting show where the guide continually dropped animals where the reaction upon hit was for the animal to "hop" up (legs contracting inward) and fall over dead. Consistently he got these results. After a host of viewers wrote/called/whatever in asking, the guy explained that he aimed for a nerve center high on the shoulder to achieve the results.
I gave it a shot this time. (pardon the bad pun)
I got identical results-- hop, then dead. However, in this hunt I noted that the damage on the exit was extensive. The exit wound was only about baseball size or a little smaller, but it was obvious that the shock wave had damaged a considerably larger area, both on entrance and at the exit actually.
It made me think back to what I'd observed in years past, that no matter where I placed the shot, the result was a large damaged area around the actual wound channel.
I guess there is something to be said for dropping an animal DRT and not having to track it, but it just seems to me there are ways to accomplish this without being so destructive.
tracking an animal is a crappy task. I prefer to lose a few pounds of meat (shoulder shot) than to track an animal that you MAY or MAY NOT find. My personal pet peeve, is hitting an animal, and not finding it[V] you KNOW you hit that animal right, but it runs off and dies somewhere where you never find it[:(] The balistic tip makes that a non-issue. they drop RIGHT THERE, or very close to where you shot them. If not, they leave a blood trail Ray Charles could follow. I have yet to track a deer that was hit correctly, with a balistic tip, that went more than 50yds, and that has been rare.
You have to understand, I have used these bullets on crop damage permits, and for hunting. I have dropped no less than 200-300 deer using these bullets. It is not unusual for us to shoot 8-10 deer in one afternoon on crop damage permits. They fly like a match bullet, and hit like a land mine[}:)] Why else would you think the other companies, (Remington, Hornady, Winchester) etc have started making bullets with a polycarbonate tip? Even Barnes has added it to their solid bullets. It is because of the extreme success Nosler has had with Their Balistic Tip hunting bullets.
quote:Originally posted by montanajoe
great pictures except for the rifle pointing right at the youngster,,,,
Optical illusion..
The rifle barrel is actually behind him.
Thank you.[:)][:)][:)]
Ballistic tips are an excellent choice on game. I took many deer with my 30-06 over the years with much the same results, damaged meat and large exit wounds. For the past 4 or 5 season I have had great success no damaged meat with a magic little pill 120 grain 25-06. The best deer caliber... [;)]
Since I'm considering a .243, how does the recoil of that compare with the 25-06?
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
25-06 120gr = 12.5 fps of recoil
30-06 180gr = 20.3 fps of recoil
.243 100gr = 8.8 fps of recoil
25-06 120gr = 12.5 fps of recoil
30-06 180gr = 20.3 fps of recoil
Both are either side of half the 30.06 recoil. I like it! And it appears the 25-06 shoots very flat as well. I really like that.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Well, Mr.Green Peace, buy a single shot .17, and step back 500 yards and shoot from there...feel better?[;)]
wanting to minimize destroyed meat makes me mr. greenpeace?
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by eboydell
Well, Mr.Green Peace, buy a single shot .17, and step back 500 yards and shoot from there...feel better?[;)]
wanting to minimize destroyed meat makes me mr. greenpeace?
The thought "Use enough gun" comes to mind...
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by eboydell
Well, Mr.Green Peace, buy a single shot .17, and step back 500 yards and shoot from there...feel better?[;)]
wanting to minimize destroyed meat makes me mr. greenpeace?
The thought "Use enough gun" comes to mind...
my whole point is that the 30.06 is MORE than enough.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by eboydell
Well, Mr.Green Peace, buy a single shot .17, and step back 500 yards and shoot from there...feel better?[;)]
wanting to minimize destroyed meat makes me mr. greenpeace?
The thought "Use enough gun" comes to mind...
my whole point is that the 30.06 is MORE than enough.
Try a .308 then.
Thank you Nosler[:D]
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by eboydell
Well, Mr.Green Peace, buy a single shot .17, and step back 500 yards and shoot from there...feel better?[;)]
wanting to minimize destroyed meat makes me mr. greenpeace?
The thought "Use enough gun" comes to mind...
my whole point is that the 30.06 is MORE than enough.
Try a .308 then.
30-06 and .308 are the same when it comes to bullet sizes.
30-06 solid lead bullets tho are often found to be .309 dia.
.243 100gr = 8.8 fps of recoil
25-06 120gr = 12.5 fps of recoil
30-06 180gr = 20.3 fps of recoil
Recoil depends (but not exclusively) on (1) bullet weight in grains, (2) velocity in fps, (3) powder charge in grains, and (4)weight of firearm in lbs. An of course, felt recoil depends on the shooter's sensitivity - it is different for each person, what is excessive for me might not be for you and vice versa.
.25-06/.30-06
Bullet weight in grains: 120 HP/180 SBT
Velocity in fps: 2781/2604
Powder charge in grains: 48 H4831/55 H4831
Weight of firearm in lbs: 8/14
Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec): 2.33/3.06
Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps): 9.39/7.03
Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs): 10.95/10.74
(SOURCES: http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp, Lyman Reloading Handbook, 49th ed).
I know a guy that shot a deer with a .50 BMG from an M82A1 at 100 yards. That is the definition of ruined meat...not anything that an -06 can do.
You mean 50BMG is too big for deer?
Next thing you'll be saying is that I shouldn't use 30-06 is too much gun for a squirrel!!
I always thought it was a given that if you shoot one behind the shoulder you are going to loose at least half of the shoulder on the opposite side.
I always have anyways, whether it be 30-30 with Corelokts, a Muszzleloader with several bullets (370grain non-expanding maxiball to 240gr hollowpoints) and 30-06 whether it be a 150gr ballistic tip or 180gr corelokt.
Simple fact is (barring a headshot) any caliber that puts a deer down in its tracks (eg. humanely) is going to cause meat damage. After all if it don't damage some meat/tissue it ain't going to kill a deer
quote:Originally posted by NOSLEEP
.243 100gr = 8.8 fps of recoil
25-06 120gr = 12.5 fps of recoil
30-06 180gr = 20.3 fps of recoil
Recoil depends (but not exclusively) on (1) bullet weight in grains, (2) velocity in fps, (3) powder charge in grains, and (4)weight of firearm in lbs. An of course, felt recoil depends on the shooter's sensitivity - it is different for each person, what is excessive for me might not be for you and vice versa.
.25-06/.30-06
Bullet weight in grains: 120 HP/180 SBT
Velocity in fps: 2781/2604
Powder charge in grains: 48 H4831/55 H4831
Weight of firearm in lbs: 8/14
Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec): 2.33/3.06
Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps): 9.39/7.03
Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs): 10.95/10.74
(SOURCES: http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp, Lyman Reloading Handbook, 49th ed).
I was with you up to the 8 lbs (25-06) rifle compared to the 14 lbs (30-06) rifle ???? That rifle weight is going to make all the difference in the world to perceived felt recoil...
quote:Originally posted by NOSLEEP
.243 100gr = 8.8 fps of recoil
25-06 120gr = 12.5 fps of recoil
30-06 180gr = 20.3 fps of recoil
Recoil depends (but not exclusively) on (1) bullet weight in grains, (2) velocity in fps, (3) powder charge in grains, and (4)weight of firearm in lbs. An of course, felt recoil depends on the shooter's sensitivity - it is different for each person, what is excessive for me might not be for you and vice versa.
.25-06/.30-06
Bullet weight in grains: 120 HP/180 SBT
Velocity in fps: 2781/2604
Powder charge in grains: 48 H4831/55 H4831
Weight of firearm in lbs: 8/14
Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec): 2.33/3.06
Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps): 9.39/7.03
Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs): 10.95/10.74
(SOURCES: http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp, Lyman Reloading Handbook, 49th ed).
Don't know a hunter that lugs around a 14 pound 30-06. And for the record, I use a 30-06.
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
quote:Originally posted by NOSLEEP
.243 100gr = 8.8 fps of recoil
25-06 120gr = 12.5 fps of recoil
30-06 180gr = 20.3 fps of recoil
Recoil depends (but not exclusively) on (1) bullet weight in grains, (2) velocity in fps, (3) powder charge in grains, and (4)weight of firearm in lbs. An of course, felt recoil depends on the shooter's sensitivity - it is different for each person, what is excessive for me might not be for you and vice versa.
.25-06/.30-06
Bullet weight in grains: 120 HP/180 SBT
Velocity in fps: 2781/2604
Powder charge in grains: 48 H4831/55 H4831
Weight of firearm in lbs: 8/14
Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec): 2.33/3.06
Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps): 9.39/7.03
Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs): 10.95/10.74
(SOURCES: http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp, Lyman Reloading Handbook, 49th ed).
Don't know a hunter that lugs around a 14 pound 30-06. And for the record, I use a 30-06.
I am not suggesting you carry a 14 pound rifle ... just making a point that weight of a rifle is a factor in recoil reduction.
My primary hunting rifles (.300 WM and .338 WM) scoped, with bipod, and loaded hunt ready is about ~14 pounds and I lug them up, down, and around the Little Belt mountains of Montana for 5-10 miles on a typical day hunt. In addition, ~30 pounds of gear (binocs, range finder, spotting scope), food, water, etc ...