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Hmmm...14 yo boy...new to the area, no friends yet....hoping new BB gun attracts attention....unsupervised by parents.wants to shoot federally protected migratory birds in a common area of an apartment complex...whats the problem?
the security guard does the job tennants hired him to do. Big problem
[xx(]
Not meant to raise your temper, ment to show you something about yourself you obvisuoly don't see.quote:Originally posted by yawarakai
quote:Originally posted by KYfatboy
Whats this the yawarakai mobile. While driving it do you hum the batman theme to yourself.
Why yes I do. In fact I am looking to get wig wags and more strobes installed. I suppose you drive a TROLLmobile as every post you've made here was insulting and designed to raise my temper.
quote:Originally posted by KYfatboy
Not meant to raise your temper, ment to show you something about yourself you obvisuoly don't see.
So the first post and other posts where you insuated I was Nazi for trying to make a living in the security field was meant to make me see what? FYI I will be first on the scene if something happens before the cops or paramedics will be. That is one reason I went for the optional training. I have had to break up drunkien fights, chase off kids fighting with knives in a library (where other kids come to be safe and study) and where are cops when i am doing this? The other side of town on their way.
I volunteer time with the local cops (who have us use our personal vehicles) patrolling neighborhoods and calling in what I see. I ahve sat in front of arching power lines for the cops so they could go chase murders and robberies. I have kept areas clear for fire and ems so they could do their job. This is all part of security.
If I had wanted to, I could have taken the bb gun from the 14 year old, instead I prefered talking to him and filing a report to cover my butt. Since the cops have been called out by others, I will have to confiscate the bb gun next time I see him with it on the property (and give it to his dad later to watch)
Glad to see you have decided that if you have to "confiscate" the bb gun you'll return it to his dad later, maybe there is some hope, wasnt insuating your A nazi for trying to make A living in the security field, just that you were useing nazi, or commie,( which ever you want to call it) style tatctits. Perhaps you should think on whats been said in this thread, then read the US Constituion, then think on history, then common sense, then on what it means to be part of A problem or part of A solution. There is nothing wrong with peace officer, its the leo mentality that is nazi, commie, basically govermental control. You must respect my authority. C'mon give us A break.
Sorry but there is authority over everyone somewhere. Do you pay taxes? Do work for someone else? If so you have to respect their authority.
The LEO has the authority to pull you over, given to them by the state and feds. I would like to see you get pulled over by someone and then tell them they don't have the authority to ticket you.
I am responsible for a certain area where I work. that area includes a lake and rec area where lots of people visit. It is my authority to tell people how to behave in that area. They break the rules they have consequenses. The rules are there for a reason, a stray shot from the bb gun could injure someone, climbing over the fence could land someone in deep water and drowning. Walking a dog in the rec area could wind up with another person stepping in their crap and then a lot of heated words. (Dog owners do not clean up afetr themselves, cat owners are worse. Cats run free anywhere they want to)
I am supposed to clear the area at 21:00, the fish start biting around then. I let the people stay until 21:40 and then clear the area. It still gives me time to check that no one is there before I leave.
Kids come in and play basketball at all hours, people live next to the court and don't want the loud bouncing ball in the middle of the night. We have the authority to clear them out, and if they don't listen and are not residnets then the police help with their authority.
Someone broke the rules this year, now we have 9mm bullet holes in a basketball backboard right next to some houses. What if one of those bullets went through a window and hit the kid that sleeps on the second floor?
I won't back down from people breaking the rules, I will try to reason with them. But if they still don't listen, I have the final word in the arguments. I banned one kid for a week for throwing rocks at cars after he was told to stop. Do I wish I hadn't done that? No. Doi wish I hadn't have had to do that? Yes.
I was incorrect in my last post, there is no hope, keep the jackboots shined mine fureor. Yes the poliza has authority to pull me over, and ticket me if I am breaking the law, if I am not, then no they have none. You are correct that if we are to have A civilized society we do require laws, and penalties for those who break them. Yes children can cause problems with A bb gun, and yes the fact that you wrote A report, and threatned to call the law on him makes you A jackboot want to be. Uncommon sense is lacking in the way you handled this situation. You can be part of the problem, or you can be part of the solution. You seem to choose to be part of the probem, hey no prob thats your call. Just keep them jackboots nice and shiny, and go pay for some more training to inforce the will of the elite on others. quote:Originally posted by yawarakai
Sorry but there is authority over everyone somewhere. Do you pay taxes? Do work for someone else? If so you have to respect their authority.
The LEO has the authority to pull you over, given to them by the state and feds. I would like to see you get pulled over by someone and then tell them they don't have the authority to ticket you.
I am responsible for a certain area where I work. that area includes a lake and rec area where lots of people visit. It is my authority to tell people how to behave in that area. They break the rules they have consequenses. The rules are there for a reason, a stray shot from the bb gun could injure someone, climbing over the fence could land someone in deep water and drowning. Walking a dog in the rec area could wind up with another person stepping in their crap and then a lot of heated words. (Dog owners do not clean up afetr themselves, cat owners are worse. Cats run free anywhere they want to)
I am supposed to clear the area at 21:00, the fish start biting around then. I let the people stay until 21:40 and then clear the area. It still gives me time to check that no one is there before I leave.
Kids come in and play basketball at all hours, people live next to the court and don't want the loud bouncing ball in the middle of the night. We have the authority to clear them out, and if they don't listen and are not residnets then the police help with their authority.
Someone broke the rules this year, now we have 9mm bullet holes in a basketball backboard right next to some houses. What if one of those bullets went through a window and hit the kid that sleeps on the second floor?
I won't back down from people breaking the rules, I will try to reason with them. But if they still don't listen, I have the final word in the arguments. I banned one kid for a week for throwing rocks at cars after he was told to stop. Do I wish I hadn't done that? No. Doi wish I hadn't have had to do that? Yes.
Yawarakai, I agree - in principle - with what KYfatboy is trying to say, not necessarily his choice of words.
No matter, the jist of what has been said is that to be a good supervisor, leader, commander, manager, boss, parent, etc. you have to maintain a sense of balance, not take yourself or your role too seriously and not expect people to focus solely upon rules and regulations. After all, for most of them, it's their home.
I was a manager of people and processes for nearly 35 years of my life. Sorry to have to tell you this, but your last few postings are basically preaching.
My suggestion, for what it's worth, is to step back a bit from your position of authority, try to be more tolerant and flexible - after all these are just kids - and don't try to be the "perfect security officer". Just do the best you can and enjoy the job and the people while you're doing it.
what an interesting thread. You guys are busting this guy's chops for doing his job to the best of his ability. May I assume that when you hire someone that you tell them that you have work you want done, but it's ok if they don't do it?
there has been a lot of comment on what we would have done, and this forum is a wonderful resource for applying others' personal experience to our various situations. I dont understand why the comments here have been so judgemental.
KY guy...you choose to use wording that is inflammatory. Why? Please help me understand your implication in using "nazi, commie, jackboots", ect. Is it a standard rant for you, or do you just hate everything?
Please be aware that I will ask for no help, nor expect any, from a knuckle dragging neanderthal.
file a tresspassing warning on him. this way if he comes back they take him downtown, and they have his parents come get him. if he works for you then tell him he will be fired and he is to never to return on the premise again
THere are many sheeple in todays society that buy into the idea that we the people cannot take care of ourselves, that we require an "leo" to protect us, there is no common sense in the majority of todays law enforcment, it is relative to the way the nazi's, and the commie's did things. I see our nation going down this path, and I do get rather irretated when I see those who so blindly support this. Everyone should do what they do to the best of their ability, are the actions Mr jackboot want to be the best of his ability's if so that is sad. Its true the words nazi, commie, and jackboot are may hurt someones feelings, however if the jackboot fits wear it. As A figure of authority you can either be A part of the problem in todays society, or A part of the soultion. Mr jackboot want to be is not being part of the soulition, rather the problem.quote:Originally posted by tacking1
what an interesting thread. You guys are busting this guy's chops for doing his job to the best of his ability. May I assume that when you hire someone that you tell them that you have work you want done, but it's ok if they don't do it?
there has been a lot of comment on what we would have done, and this forum is a wonderful resource for applying others' personal experience to our various situations. I dont understand why the comments here have been so judgemental.
KY guy...you choose to use wording that is inflammatory. Why? Please help me understand your implication in using "nazi, commie, jackboots", ect. Is it a standard rant for you, or do you just hate everything?
Please be aware that I will ask for no help, nor expect any, from a knuckle dragging neanderthal.
quote:Originally posted by Slow_Hand
Yawarakai,
My suggestion, for what it's worth, is to step back a bit from your position of authority, try to be more tolerant and flexible - after all these are just kids - and don't try to be the "perfect security officer". Just do the best you can and enjoy the job and the people while you're doing it.
Well the association president lays down the rules that I have to follow and enforce.
I actually do enjoy the job, I have a full size fridge and BBQ grills. I keep cheap sugar-free popsicles in the fridge for the kids who come by. I have a case of water in the fridge for the residents who go fishing without it (for $1 a bottle of course, can't afford to give it away)
I gave the kid with the bb gun a fishing reel we found by the woods. But I do have to follow the rules and enforce them or they bring out someone else. (And I don't want that, the BBQ grills and the driving distance are nice)
Yawarakai, you sound like decent, caring regular guy who takes pride in himself and in his job performance. I hope this situation works out well for all concerned, especially you.
The reality is however that you simply cannot please everyone and from time to time, you will be the bad guy, so to speak. You have to accept that and to that end, your skin will have to thicken a bit. It goes with the territory of being an authority figure.
My suggestion about stepping back was more about balancing what's expected of you from your HOA with the reality of a given situation. That balance shifts accordingly as each new on-the-job situation develops. There's simply no textbook answer available to cover each scenario. That's why they pay you the "big bucks". [;)]
quote:Originally posted by Slow_Hand
Yawarakai, you sound like decent, caring regular guy who takes pride in himself and in his job performance. I hope this situation works out well for all concerned, especially you.
Oh yeah, I do enjoy that account. The last account they had me working on was good also, I was a deskofficer a greeted the lawyers and accountants in the morning.
Last year I had problems with 2 kids that got a pass from someone, I brought a fishing rod a fished with them while they were there. It solved the supervison problem as I was able to watch them the whole time and they didn't feel watched. The association president came down and saw me fishing on the clock, thought it was a great idea when I explained it to him.
Well I've read all the posts and didn't see the first thing that came to my mind. There have been a couple of instances that LEO's have shot and killed a someone with a bb pistol or even once a cap pistol. Thats why they have the red on the front of em now. You may have saved the kids life! Kids don't think they can die.
Some leo's have a attitude problem to start with. This is what prescreening is supposed to catch! and any "gun" sighted brings on acute instant paronia. A lot of these rejected end up as "security officers" aka wannabee cops.this is why some may have percieved you as being "overly strict" Dont sound like your like that but you gotta realize a lot of people resent any attempt of telling them how to behave even if their behaviour is asinine or dangerous to others. I can remember taking a shotgun to school so's as to hunt on the way home. BUT we were taught how to be responsible in everything (not just firearm safety) This is no longer true. with the irresponsiblity of todays parents a bb gun is not a purchase for teens Some parents cannot see "lil Johnnie" as being able to do anything wrong. ie shooting the neighbors cats,dogs,car windows,etc. and will defend them all the way to court. Then whine about losing for years. This can cause you to lose your job. They don't care as long as they can brag about their power in getting you fired. (these are the same people that will cry and complain about anyone else percieved infractions or have a hissy fit about a legally carried firearm.)
BTW the above mentioned "teaching" was administered with a razor strop. It worked! Guess thats why its no longer pc
quote:Originally posted by minitruck83
Well I've read all the posts and didn't see the first thing that came to my mind. There have been a couple of instances that LEO's have shot and killed a someone with a bb pistol or even once a cap pistol. Thats why they have the red on the front of em now. You may have saved the kids life! Kids don't think they can die.
Funny thing is, I looked at the gun. It looks pretty much like my friend's semi-auto 9 at a first look. It is all black, no red on it.
The city where I work, the cops are all pretty cool. nly one that I know has an attitude and he responded one day when I needed the police for an argument that was breaking out. One of the agressors got up in his face and told him to settle it in his favor -- big mistake.
The chief stops by the fair every year where I work the fair police for a week. He always stops by where I am directing traffic and drops off some bottled water or gatorade.
New twist in the on gooing saga. This weekend 3 kids came running out of the woods where gunshots were heard. They claimed a man was shooting a black gun at them. The person filling in for me called the police and filed a report.
Funny thing is, I looked at the gun. It looks pretty much like my friend's semi-auto 9 at a first look. It is all black, no red
Yep only the toys have the red.
The city where I work, the cops are all pretty cool. nly one that I know has an attitude and he responded one day when I needed the police for an argument that was breaking out. One of the agressors got up in his face and told him to settle it in his favor -- big mistake.
HAH I'll bet that the most laid back cop you have there would have gotten red real quick if someone got "in their face". Never smart to challenge a cop. IMHO
So now the law has been alerted that there is someone in the area with a "black gun" that is willing to shot at anyone? Armed and dangerous? Think I'd talk to the kids daddy real quick and point out that if the kid is seen with a "gun" there is a good chance that he could be injured.
No matter how "cool" the local leo's are they will take that report seriously.
Comments
the security guard does the job tennants hired him to do. Big problem
[xx(]
quote:Originally posted by KYfatboy
Whats this the yawarakai mobile. While driving it do you hum the batman theme to yourself.
Why yes I do. In fact I am looking to get wig wags and more strobes installed. I suppose you drive a TROLLmobile as every post you've made here was insulting and designed to raise my temper.
But I do park my car here.
Not meant to raise your temper, ment to show you something about yourself you obvisuoly don't see.
So the first post and other posts where you insuated I was Nazi for trying to make a living in the security field was meant to make me see what? FYI I will be first on the scene if something happens before the cops or paramedics will be. That is one reason I went for the optional training. I have had to break up drunkien fights, chase off kids fighting with knives in a library (where other kids come to be safe and study) and where are cops when i am doing this? The other side of town on their way.
I volunteer time with the local cops (who have us use our personal vehicles) patrolling neighborhoods and calling in what I see. I ahve sat in front of arching power lines for the cops so they could go chase murders and robberies. I have kept areas clear for fire and ems so they could do their job. This is all part of security.
If I had wanted to, I could have taken the bb gun from the 14 year old, instead I prefered talking to him and filing a report to cover my butt. Since the cops have been called out by others, I will have to confiscate the bb gun next time I see him with it on the property (and give it to his dad later to watch)
The LEO has the authority to pull you over, given to them by the state and feds. I would like to see you get pulled over by someone and then tell them they don't have the authority to ticket you.
I am responsible for a certain area where I work. that area includes a lake and rec area where lots of people visit. It is my authority to tell people how to behave in that area. They break the rules they have consequenses. The rules are there for a reason, a stray shot from the bb gun could injure someone, climbing over the fence could land someone in deep water and drowning. Walking a dog in the rec area could wind up with another person stepping in their crap and then a lot of heated words. (Dog owners do not clean up afetr themselves, cat owners are worse. Cats run free anywhere they want to)
I am supposed to clear the area at 21:00, the fish start biting around then. I let the people stay until 21:40 and then clear the area. It still gives me time to check that no one is there before I leave.
Kids come in and play basketball at all hours, people live next to the court and don't want the loud bouncing ball in the middle of the night. We have the authority to clear them out, and if they don't listen and are not residnets then the police help with their authority.
Someone broke the rules this year, now we have 9mm bullet holes in a basketball backboard right next to some houses. What if one of those bullets went through a window and hit the kid that sleeps on the second floor?
I won't back down from people breaking the rules, I will try to reason with them. But if they still don't listen, I have the final word in the arguments. I banned one kid for a week for throwing rocks at cars after he was told to stop. Do I wish I hadn't done that? No. Doi wish I hadn't have had to do that? Yes.
Sorry but there is authority over everyone somewhere. Do you pay taxes? Do work for someone else? If so you have to respect their authority.
The LEO has the authority to pull you over, given to them by the state and feds. I would like to see you get pulled over by someone and then tell them they don't have the authority to ticket you.
I am responsible for a certain area where I work. that area includes a lake and rec area where lots of people visit. It is my authority to tell people how to behave in that area. They break the rules they have consequenses. The rules are there for a reason, a stray shot from the bb gun could injure someone, climbing over the fence could land someone in deep water and drowning. Walking a dog in the rec area could wind up with another person stepping in their crap and then a lot of heated words. (Dog owners do not clean up afetr themselves, cat owners are worse. Cats run free anywhere they want to)
I am supposed to clear the area at 21:00, the fish start biting around then. I let the people stay until 21:40 and then clear the area. It still gives me time to check that no one is there before I leave.
Kids come in and play basketball at all hours, people live next to the court and don't want the loud bouncing ball in the middle of the night. We have the authority to clear them out, and if they don't listen and are not residnets then the police help with their authority.
Someone broke the rules this year, now we have 9mm bullet holes in a basketball backboard right next to some houses. What if one of those bullets went through a window and hit the kid that sleeps on the second floor?
I won't back down from people breaking the rules, I will try to reason with them. But if they still don't listen, I have the final word in the arguments. I banned one kid for a week for throwing rocks at cars after he was told to stop. Do I wish I hadn't done that? No. Doi wish I hadn't have had to do that? Yes.
No matter, the jist of what has been said is that to be a good supervisor, leader, commander, manager, boss, parent, etc. you have to maintain a sense of balance, not take yourself or your role too seriously and not expect people to focus solely upon rules and regulations. After all, for most of them, it's their home.
I was a manager of people and processes for nearly 35 years of my life. Sorry to have to tell you this, but your last few postings are basically preaching.
My suggestion, for what it's worth, is to step back a bit from your position of authority, try to be more tolerant and flexible - after all these are just kids - and don't try to be the "perfect security officer". Just do the best you can and enjoy the job and the people while you're doing it.
there has been a lot of comment on what we would have done, and this forum is a wonderful resource for applying others' personal experience to our various situations. I dont understand why the comments here have been so judgemental.
KY guy...you choose to use wording that is inflammatory. Why? Please help me understand your implication in using "nazi, commie, jackboots", ect. Is it a standard rant for you, or do you just hate everything?
Please be aware that I will ask for no help, nor expect any, from a knuckle dragging neanderthal.
what an interesting thread. You guys are busting this guy's chops for doing his job to the best of his ability. May I assume that when you hire someone that you tell them that you have work you want done, but it's ok if they don't do it?
there has been a lot of comment on what we would have done, and this forum is a wonderful resource for applying others' personal experience to our various situations. I dont understand why the comments here have been so judgemental.
KY guy...you choose to use wording that is inflammatory. Why? Please help me understand your implication in using "nazi, commie, jackboots", ect. Is it a standard rant for you, or do you just hate everything?
Please be aware that I will ask for no help, nor expect any, from a knuckle dragging neanderthal.
Yawarakai,
My suggestion, for what it's worth, is to step back a bit from your position of authority, try to be more tolerant and flexible - after all these are just kids - and don't try to be the "perfect security officer". Just do the best you can and enjoy the job and the people while you're doing it.
Well the association president lays down the rules that I have to follow and enforce.
I actually do enjoy the job, I have a full size fridge and BBQ grills. I keep cheap sugar-free popsicles in the fridge for the kids who come by. I have a case of water in the fridge for the residents who go fishing without it (for $1 a bottle of course, can't afford to give it away)
I gave the kid with the bb gun a fishing reel we found by the woods. But I do have to follow the rules and enforce them or they bring out someone else. (And I don't want that, the BBQ grills and the driving distance are nice)
The reality is however that you simply cannot please everyone and from time to time, you will be the bad guy, so to speak. You have to accept that and to that end, your skin will have to thicken a bit. It goes with the territory of being an authority figure.
My suggestion about stepping back was more about balancing what's expected of you from your HOA with the reality of a given situation. That balance shifts accordingly as each new on-the-job situation develops. There's simply no textbook answer available to cover each scenario. That's why they pay you the "big bucks". [;)]
Best of luck to you. Happy grilling! [:D]
Yawarakai, you sound like decent, caring regular guy who takes pride in himself and in his job performance. I hope this situation works out well for all concerned, especially you.
Oh yeah, I do enjoy that account. The last account they had me working on was good also, I was a deskofficer a greeted the lawyers and accountants in the morning.
Last year I had problems with 2 kids that got a pass from someone, I brought a fishing rod a fished with them while they were there. It solved the supervison problem as I was able to watch them the whole time and they didn't feel watched. The association president came down and saw me fishing on the clock, thought it was a great idea when I explained it to him.
Some leo's have a attitude problem to start with. This is what prescreening is supposed to catch! and any "gun" sighted brings on acute instant paronia. A lot of these rejected end up as "security officers" aka wannabee cops.this is why some may have percieved you as being "overly strict" Dont sound like your like that but you gotta realize a lot of people resent any attempt of telling them how to behave even if their behaviour is asinine or dangerous to others. I can remember taking a shotgun to school so's as to hunt on the way home. BUT we were taught how to be responsible in everything (not just firearm safety) This is no longer true. with the irresponsiblity of todays parents a bb gun is not a purchase for teens Some parents cannot see "lil Johnnie" as being able to do anything wrong. ie shooting the neighbors cats,dogs,car windows,etc. and will defend them all the way to court. Then whine about losing for years. This can cause you to lose your job. They don't care as long as they can brag about their power in getting you fired. (these are the same people that will cry and complain about anyone else percieved infractions or have a hissy fit about a legally carried firearm.)
BTW the above mentioned "teaching" was administered with a razor strop. It worked! Guess thats why its no longer pc
Allen
Well I've read all the posts and didn't see the first thing that came to my mind. There have been a couple of instances that LEO's have shot and killed a someone with a bb pistol or even once a cap pistol. Thats why they have the red on the front of em now. You may have saved the kids life! Kids don't think they can die.
Funny thing is, I looked at the gun. It looks pretty much like my friend's semi-auto 9 at a first look. It is all black, no red on it.
The city where I work, the cops are all pretty cool. nly one that I know has an attitude and he responded one day when I needed the police for an argument that was breaking out. One of the agressors got up in his face and told him to settle it in his favor -- big mistake.
The chief stops by the fair every year where I work the fair police for a week. He always stops by where I am directing traffic and drops off some bottled water or gatorade.