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And if someone asks you how you feel about 'waiting periods', tell them "It's great, for hotheads. It gives them a couple of days to add persons to their list, and to better plan their escape route." [;)]
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
Oakie, no offence intended but may I suggest you read your last post and see if you really want to say that. You contradicted yourself at least twice. [;)] [:D]
I know what you are saying james, I am just stating that in some cases it is good even though I don't like that it can be used against us. Kinda like a catch 22. Not good with some thoughts and words, but you get what I am confusingly trying to say[:D][:D][:D] Hell, I don't even drink[;)][:D] Hey, How have you been lately??? Haven't seen you post or maybe just missed it. Good day James[:)]
To Rambo Rebel- you understand incorrectly. A dealer is required to maintain their Form 4473 for 20 years after the sale.
And I will stir the pot. Background checks? Why should I need to go to a government agency to have THEM run a background check? Whether it is for buying a gun, renting him my cabin in the mountains for two weeks, running the cash register at my business, babysitting my son, or dating my daughter- WHY should criminal records be private? Make them open to anyone to search.
At the same time- I want to BUY a gun- but I am concerned that it could have been stolen. NCIC can give a hit in a minute- but unless you are an LEO, it is illegal for YOU to be able to access that info. Why not make it public info?
Requiring BGC's has as much effect as having speed limit signs, most will adhere to the law, but no matter what the consequences are, there will always be those who will continue to break the law.
Not in favor of the BGC's, but they are here to stay. Has zero effect on the criminal who has intent.
I would be in favor of BGC's if anyone can prove by having the BGC's has prevented "one" crime.
I have been at the counter buying a firearm on more then one occasion when someone failed their background check and got arrested. Stupidity on the hopeful buyers part for sure but the background check worked.
That said a ccw should be proof enough and negate a background check.
quote:Originally posted by bpost
It is a double edged sword.
Any felon that had committed a crime of violence should never own or possess a gun again.
Not sure how to accomplish that with out checking on SOMETHING somehow. Maybe a open system where a seller could check on a person's felony record with out Nanny state knowing would be best but Lord knows there is no way Government would keep its prying nose out of that deal.
If he is released to be in the public why should he be denied his basic rights? If he is not deserving to be in the public he should not be there.
Don't worry though, with the number of laws on the books and more passed each year, we will all be felons soon enough and guns will not longer be needed by anyone.
I am not an expert in these things. As it stands, I would have to say NO. Mostly because I dont believe them to do the good they are intended to do. I follow all the rules and regulations just like the next law abiding citizen.
IF it could be shown, that background checks (or any law) could somehow stop criminals from doing a certain thing.....I suppose I would have to consider that. How could anyone not?
Making laws doesnt actually stop criminal activity and restricting anything from law abiding citizens doesnt stop law breakers from getting their hands on the same.
babun---That is an interesting spin ya put on this one. Thanks for sharing. Even if its true that John #2 didnt actually right what you said he did.
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
quote:Originally posted by babun
Background checks??
lets look at two checks done on two different men named John.
John #1= well known actor, lived in the town for years. Never had trouble with the law or any authorities. Soon to get married to a socialite woman of wealth.
John #2= Just moved to town from out of state farm where he has illegal workers. The Federal government is looking for him for high treason. Attends radical meetings to plan the overthrow of the government.
John #1 {Wilkes Booth} passes the check, and kills President Lincoln.
John #2 {Hancock} fails the check, and writes the Declaration
Of Independence.
I get the point......but the Declaration of Independence was written by a guy named Thomas....
As to the original question: No to background checks. They serve no useful purpose.
Jefferson copied the words and thoughts of George Mason in drafting the Declaration.
But the Declaration of Independence says nothing about guns. That's in the first 10 Amendments, The Bill of Rights, which many States demanded before ratifying the Constitution.
Many of the Amendments, including the 2nd., were copied from the Virgina Constitution, which was pretty much the work of George Mason.
So Jefferson gets the credit for much of the work done by George Mason, whom I credit for us having the Bill of Rights in the first place.
Oh. The original question.
No.
I have personally had to go to court 3 times in the last 2 years for customers who have been denied on a backround check. Every person that has been denied (at my gun shop) has been charged. quote:Originally posted by Ditch-Runner
they do nothing out of the people who get turned down none the I have heard of ever got arrested after all its a felony to lie on the form is it not ?
I think if you have a CC license just show it and done ( I think some states do it that way ) and I also think the CC license is BS
there is way too many laws infringing on our rights about firearms any time you have to ask for permission its not a right
quote:Originally posted by Oakie
How have you been lately??? Haven't seen you post or maybe just missed it. Good day James[:)]
I was out for six or eight weeks give or take a week or two more or less. I think I've been posting for two or three weeks now.
I should live for at least six more months because that's when the doctor scheduled my next appointment.
Back ground checks are a joke because of the HIPPA rules. The very people with mental issues are protected from having that information made available, even for a firearm purchase. Get that loophole fixed I'll say no problem. Until then it's a finger in a dike.
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by Oakie
How have you been lately??? Haven't seen you post or maybe just missed it. Good day James[:)]
I was out for six or eight weeks give or take a week or two more or less. I think I've been posting for two or three weeks now.
I should live for at least six more months because that's when the doctor scheduled my next appointment.
Or until your payment for the last appointment clears.
If the system was setup to my satisfaction, then no I would not mind them so much. As it stands any modicum of good is drowning in a sea of annoyance to people who are no problem for anybody.
Not going to get into a big long write-up here, been a long hard day and I'm headed for the pillows momentarily. Just say that one thing I'd require is civilian oversight from the Pro-Gun side of the fence. That'd mean our side gets to dig into the records of the background check program, look for any examples of wrong doing by the bureaucracy.
Don't think it likely the FBI and ATF would ever accept a team from the NRA, GOA and SAF pulling surprise inspections on their record keeping!
I literally hate the system!!! I've had a C&R license for many years, I have carry permits in 6 states and I've had them for many years but every time I purchase a gun other than a C&R I get put on hold. Sometimes it's for an hour or two and sometimes it's until the next day. One time they never even bothered calling back and I had to wait 3 days to get my gun. I've never been denied a purchase of a gun but it's aggravating as hell having to drive back to the shop to pick it up. I tried writing to the idiots to find out how to fix the problem and never got an answer. I rarely ever buy a gun anymore that I can't buy with my C&R license so it's not that big of a problem but it still pisses me off!
There's nothing but a bunch of sorry SOB's in the government!! We have to pass a background check to purchase a gun but I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the politicians if they had to pass a background check before they could run for office they'd be flipping burgers instead of sitting in Washington, DC ripping off the tax payers. [:(!]
In Arizona if you have a Concealed Weapon Permit you show that when buying a gun and there is no background check. The law was written figuring you were checked out by the State Police, what more does anyone need after that?
Much like a gun free zone, criminals don't care. Some thug wants a gun, he will buy it on the street, or break into a house and steal it. Background checks only serve to let the government know what law abiding citizens are doing.
I would support mandatory firearms safety training similar to a CCW class for purchasing a gun, as that would at least make sense, ensuring that anyone who bought one had a modicum of knowledge. Hunters ed, high power experience, whatever, could substitute.
No crime has ever been prevented because of a background check on a gun purchase.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by fideau
One reason I have a CCW in NC is because I don't have to have a permit to buy a handgun, and no background check. Quick and easy.[8D]
Continually amused by those who are vetted through a background check and then state there is no background check.
It is the concept of a background check that is in question, not how many time you have to do it.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
I might feel better about background checks if the police actually did something about felons who try to buy guns and straw purchasers. A big series in the local paper a couple years ago said Virginia rarely prosecutes people, even when there is a very strong case, who try to carry out multiple gun straw purchases. They might get arrested, but the case is almost always just dropped.
I am reminded of the phrase "security theater." Background checks look like something is being done to keep us safe, they feel like something is being done to keep us safe, but in reality, not so much.
Absolutely not.
one who uses a firearm
while breaking a law
goes immediately to prison
for ten years + the sentence
for the actual crime.
No plea bargaining unless it's me
or one of my family
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
No crime has ever been prevented because of a background check on a gun purchase.
Have you got a link or three with the data on that?
quote:Originally posted by mlincoln
I might feel better about background checks if the police actually did something about felons who try to buy guns and straw purchasers. A big series in the local paper a couple years ago said Virginia rarely prosecutes people, even when there is a very strong case, who try to carry out multiple gun straw purchases. They might get arrested, but the case is almost always just dropped.
I am reminded of the phrase "security theater." Background checks look like something is being done to keep us safe, they feel like something is being done to keep us safe, but in reality, not so much.
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
No crime has ever been prevented because of a background check on a gun purchase.
Have you got a link or three with the data on that?
Have you got one that proves definitively otherwise?
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
No crime has ever been prevented because of a background check on a gun purchase.
Have you got a link or three with the data on that?
Of course he doesn't
Nor would I need to as the entire concept is utterly ridiculous.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
"Do you support background checks?" is an incomplete question. It must be followed by "and universal gun registration to ensure compliance?"
Simply put, one cannot have UBC without universal registration. By "universal registration" I mean of every gun out there, whether bought 50 years ago or 5 minutes ago. Without universal registration it's impossible to tell if a Colt 1917 revolver was bought by me 10 years ago, before UBC, or 10 minutes ago in violation of UBC. And without universal registration should a police officer assert a gunowner violated the law there is no "on the spot" way for the gunowner to demonstrate otherwise.
And for those who care about constitutionality, Heller referenced restrictions in the "commercial" selling of firearms. That they specifically referenced commercial sales is an indication they see a difference between that and a private sale of private property.
quote:Originally posted by armilite
According to our newspaper yesterday 74% of NRA members support back ground checks.
On a high note our governor is in favor of eliminating the 48 hour wait on hand gun purchases along with drug tests for welfare recipients.
Interesting that the number is still tossed about. IIRC it was taken in the northeast shortly after the Lanza shooting. It seems to me a more accurate number would be the I594 election held last year in Washington state where the results were more "60% to 40%" in favor. Not nearly as impressive, and cetainly doesn't carry the cachet of "NRA members" either.
Fact is,more crimes and murders including mass murders have been stopped or prevented by someone with a gun than have been or ever will be by background checks.
Comments
Oakie, no offence intended but may I suggest you read your last post and see if you really want to say that. You contradicted yourself at least twice. [;)] [:D]
I know what you are saying james, I am just stating that in some cases it is good even though I don't like that it can be used against us. Kinda like a catch 22. Not good with some thoughts and words, but you get what I am confusingly trying to say[:D][:D][:D] Hell, I don't even drink[;)][:D] Hey, How have you been lately??? Haven't seen you post or maybe just missed it. Good day James[:)]
And I will stir the pot. Background checks? Why should I need to go to a government agency to have THEM run a background check? Whether it is for buying a gun, renting him my cabin in the mountains for two weeks, running the cash register at my business, babysitting my son, or dating my daughter- WHY should criminal records be private? Make them open to anyone to search.
At the same time- I want to BUY a gun- but I am concerned that it could have been stolen. NCIC can give a hit in a minute- but unless you are an LEO, it is illegal for YOU to be able to access that info. Why not make it public info?
There should be no impediments to those rights.
Not in favor of the BGC's, but they are here to stay. Has zero effect on the criminal who has intent.
I would be in favor of BGC's if anyone can prove by having the BGC's has prevented "one" crime.
That said a ccw should be proof enough and negate a background check.
It is a double edged sword.
Any felon that had committed a crime of violence should never own or possess a gun again.
Not sure how to accomplish that with out checking on SOMETHING somehow. Maybe a open system where a seller could check on a person's felony record with out Nanny state knowing would be best but Lord knows there is no way Government would keep its prying nose out of that deal.
If he is released to be in the public why should he be denied his basic rights? If he is not deserving to be in the public he should not be there.
Don't worry though, with the number of laws on the books and more passed each year, we will all be felons soon enough and guns will not longer be needed by anyone.
IF it could be shown, that background checks (or any law) could somehow stop criminals from doing a certain thing.....I suppose I would have to consider that. How could anyone not?
Making laws doesnt actually stop criminal activity and restricting anything from law abiding citizens doesnt stop law breakers from getting their hands on the same.
babun---That is an interesting spin ya put on this one. Thanks for sharing. Even if its true that John #2 didnt actually right what you said he did.
quote:Originally posted by babun
Background checks??
lets look at two checks done on two different men named John.
John #1= well known actor, lived in the town for years. Never had trouble with the law or any authorities. Soon to get married to a socialite woman of wealth.
John #2= Just moved to town from out of state farm where he has illegal workers. The Federal government is looking for him for high treason. Attends radical meetings to plan the overthrow of the government.
John #1 {Wilkes Booth} passes the check, and kills President Lincoln.
John #2 {Hancock} fails the check, and writes the Declaration
Of Independence.
I get the point......but the Declaration of Independence was written by a guy named Thomas....
As to the original question: No to background checks. They serve no useful purpose.
Jefferson copied the words and thoughts of George Mason in drafting the Declaration.
But the Declaration of Independence says nothing about guns. That's in the first 10 Amendments, The Bill of Rights, which many States demanded before ratifying the Constitution.
Many of the Amendments, including the 2nd., were copied from the Virgina Constitution, which was pretty much the work of George Mason.
So Jefferson gets the credit for much of the work done by George Mason, whom I credit for us having the Bill of Rights in the first place.
Oh. The original question.
No.
candidates and politicians.
they do nothing out of the people who get turned down none the I have heard of ever got arrested after all its a felony to lie on the form is it not ?
I think if you have a CC license just show it and done ( I think some states do it that way ) and I also think the CC license is BS
there is way too many laws infringing on our rights about firearms any time you have to ask for permission its not a right
How have you been lately??? Haven't seen you post or maybe just missed it. Good day James[:)]
I was out for six or eight weeks give or take a week or two more or less. I think I've been posting for two or three weeks now.
I should live for at least six more months because that's when the doctor scheduled my next appointment.
quote:Originally posted by Oakie
How have you been lately??? Haven't seen you post or maybe just missed it. Good day James[:)]
I was out for six or eight weeks give or take a week or two more or less. I think I've been posting for two or three weeks now.
I should live for at least six more months because that's when the doctor scheduled my next appointment.
Or until your payment for the last appointment clears.
Not going to get into a big long write-up here, been a long hard day and I'm headed for the pillows momentarily. Just say that one thing I'd require is civilian oversight from the Pro-Gun side of the fence. That'd mean our side gets to dig into the records of the background check program, look for any examples of wrong doing by the bureaucracy.
Don't think it likely the FBI and ATF would ever accept a team from the NRA, GOA and SAF pulling surprise inspections on their record keeping!
There's nothing but a bunch of sorry SOB's in the government!! We have to pass a background check to purchase a gun but I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the politicians if they had to pass a background check before they could run for office they'd be flipping burgers instead of sitting in Washington, DC ripping off the tax payers. [:(!]
Liberty.
Gun control laws are all based on the premise that guns are the problem and control is the solution.
I reject this premise.
[^]
I would support mandatory firearms safety training similar to a CCW class for purchasing a gun, as that would at least make sense, ensuring that anyone who bought one had a modicum of knowledge. Hunters ed, high power experience, whatever, could substitute.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
One reason I have a CCW in NC is because I don't have to have a permit to buy a handgun, and no background check. Quick and easy.[8D]
Continually amused by those who are vetted through a background check and then state there is no background check.
It is the concept of a background check that is in question, not how many time you have to do it.
Brad Steele
No crime has ever been prevented because of a background check on a gun purchase.
Have you got a link or three with the data on that?
Trinity +++
I am reminded of the phrase "security theater." Background checks look like something is being done to keep us safe, they feel like something is being done to keep us safe, but in reality, not so much.
one who uses a firearm
while breaking a law
goes immediately to prison
for ten years + the sentence
for the actual crime.
No plea bargaining unless it's me
or one of my family
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
No crime has ever been prevented because of a background check on a gun purchase.
Have you got a link or three with the data on that?
Of course he doesn't
I might feel better about background checks if the police actually did something about felons who try to buy guns and straw purchasers. A big series in the local paper a couple years ago said Virginia rarely prosecutes people, even when there is a very strong case, who try to carry out multiple gun straw purchases. They might get arrested, but the case is almost always just dropped.
I am reminded of the phrase "security theater." Background checks look like something is being done to keep us safe, they feel like something is being done to keep us safe, but in reality, not so much.
Exactly!
Liberty.
Gun control laws are all based on the premise that guns are the problem and control is the solution.
I reject this premise.
Solid point. No doubt about it. Kinda difficult to argue with also.....without sounding very anti-2A.
On a high note our governor is in favor of eliminating the 48 hour wait on hand gun purchases along with drug tests for welfare recipients.
According to our newspaper yesterday 74% of NRA members support back ground checks.
On a high note our governor is in favor of eliminating the 48 hour wait on hand gun purchases along with drug tests for welfare recipients.
The difference between the NRA's 'Gun Rights' and the actual 2nd Amendment Individual Right.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
No crime has ever been prevented because of a background check on a gun purchase.
Have you got a link or three with the data on that?
Have you got one that proves definitively otherwise?
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
If "they" went to the trouble to prosecute the "rejects", it might be more worthwhile.
If "they" went to the trouble to prosecute the "rejects", it might be more worthwhile.
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
No crime has ever been prevented because of a background check on a gun purchase.
Have you got a link or three with the data on that?
Of course he doesn't
Nor would I need to as the entire concept is utterly ridiculous.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Simply put, one cannot have UBC without universal registration. By "universal registration" I mean of every gun out there, whether bought 50 years ago or 5 minutes ago. Without universal registration it's impossible to tell if a Colt 1917 revolver was bought by me 10 years ago, before UBC, or 10 minutes ago in violation of UBC. And without universal registration should a police officer assert a gunowner violated the law there is no "on the spot" way for the gunowner to demonstrate otherwise.
And for those who care about constitutionality, Heller referenced restrictions in the "commercial" selling of firearms. That they specifically referenced commercial sales is an indication they see a difference between that and a private sale of private property.
According to our newspaper yesterday 74% of NRA members support back ground checks.
On a high note our governor is in favor of eliminating the 48 hour wait on hand gun purchases along with drug tests for welfare recipients.
Interesting that the number is still tossed about. IIRC it was taken in the northeast shortly after the Lanza shooting. It seems to me a more accurate number would be the I594 election held last year in Washington state where the results were more "60% to 40%" in favor. Not nearly as impressive, and cetainly doesn't carry the cachet of "NRA members" either.