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quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
The problem for doctors in Africa is the heat and the lack of air conditioning. When working on these outbreaks in the USA they wear what amounts to a space suit. That's tough work in an air conditioned lab. Try wearing all that protective gear in some dirty filthy African crap hole and you rapidly cook your brain.
So these doctors, wanting to help people and save lives, take chances to be able to do so.
Sometimes luck goes against them.
If the virus is as difficult to spread as you're making it out to be, why wear the space suits at all?
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
The problem for doctors in Africa is the heat and the lack of air conditioning. When working on these outbreaks in the USA they wear what amounts to a space suit. That's tough work in an air conditioned lab. Try wearing all that protective gear in some dirty filthy African crap hole and you rapidly cook your brain.
So these doctors, wanting to help people and save lives, take chances to be able to do so.
Sometimes luck goes against them.
If the virus is as difficult to spread as you're making it out to be, why wear the space suits at all?
I'm not making it out to be difficult to spread, or easy or anything else. I'm simply stating what I've heard and read of doctors doing such work, as they describe the problems working on these incidents in Africa.
I'm not making it out to be difficult to spread, or easy or anything else.
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
The risk of Ebola getting out to the general American population from one of these patients being taken to a modern American facility are so near to zero it's laughable to be scared about it.
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
The cost to setup an American level of intensive care, supporting staff and medical isolation in Africa would be immense. Beginning with reliable power, clean water and high volume air conditioning alone for a hospital sized facility, who wants to pay for all that?
Compare that to bringing sick Americans home to existing facilities. Much cheaper to bring our people home.
The risk of Ebola getting out to the general American population from one of these patients being taken to a modern American facility are so near to zero it's laughable to be scared about it. On the scale of those who lost bladder and bowel control over the fear terrorists would be brought into the American legal and prison system.
Silly fears, based upon worse than an absence of knowledge, more on a denial of knowledge.
The only truly scary thing here is how many Americans have decided to revel in fear more or less as a political statement. Liberals do it about topics like guns, conservatives have their favorite sphincter loosening fears too.
It'd be funny if it didn't get in the way of getting things done so often.
Well said.
I'd actually go even farther and suggest we should transport others who are infected, and willing to come, to our country for testing different treatment methods. Our knowledge about treatment options is very limited -- and this is a serious virus; we should be trying to learn more about it and the options for treating patients who are infected. We could try different treatments, not available if trying to do them in Africa -- like, for example, how do patients react in hyperbolic oxygen chambers?
Extremely tight quarantine practices would need to be in place, but the scientific knowledge we could gain could really help us in some future out-break.
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
sure sets a stupid precedent and tremendous risk
I agree, however risk is not as important as votes. Certainly such behavior will energize the "bleeding hearts" to vote for more partisanship activity.
quote:Originally posted by chiefr
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
sure sets a stupid precedent and tremendous risk
I agree, however risk is not as important as votes. Certainly such behavior will energize the "bleeding hearts" to vote for more partisanship activity.
Do you attempt to do any analysis of risks? What are you thinking the probabilities are of quarantine efforts failing? And then, even if quarantine efforts fail at the hospital, what do you think the risks are of any sort of "outbreak"?
Realistically, you are looking at minute fractions of one-percent risk of site quarantine failing, then, it would be additional fractions of one-percent for any "outbreak" from a site quarantine failure.
You're many times more likely to be struck by lightening than become infected by Ebola from any patients brought into this country for medical treatment.
To even use the term "risk" is nonsensical. You're operating in the "irrational fear" arena when looking at such extreme probabilities and "being concerned."
Last I looked, there was plenty of need for medical care and such work here in the US. I can only assume that there is some other reason driving people to go to Africa to volunteer their time.
I not only support bringing these patients back to the US for treatment, but I would have volunteered to transport them.
For 14 years I was a paramedic at a small county hospital in Georgia, about 90 miles from Atlanta. I took several dozen patients up to Emory, patients who needed heart surgery, brain surgery, etc. which my little hospital could not handle. I was always impressed by the top-notch medical staff that I encountered at Emory.
So, if I were a medic in Georgia today and the call went out, that 2 paramedics were needed to transport these patients, I would have volunteered. You got the best and the brightest docs working this case, I am sure they would have taken the necessary precautions to keep it safe for me. Hell yes I would have volunteered, and I would be the only paramedic in America who had ever transported an Ebola pt.
I risked my life on several ambulance calls to try to save the life of a patient, and, in my private life, I have done several things more dangerous than transporting a pt. from the Marietta airport down to Emory.
I say it's ok, only because of my assumptions of the following:
1. They are being taken to a research facility, and they will be reasearched and monitored for scientific purposes;
2. The govt isn't footing the bill alone (or at all)
As far as any conspiracy goes, if there is a conspiracy, it is with the Christian charities that tend to place people in harms way or otherwise screw up a localized economy/ecosystem/society in God's name, only to have all hell break loose.
quote:Originally posted by Jgreen
I say it's ok, only because of my assumptions of the following:
1. They are being taken to a research facility, and they will be reasearched and monitored for scientific purposes;
Yeah that really gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing the "professionals" will be handling it. They're taking them to the same research facility that exposed 84 CDC staffers in Atlanta to live anthrax just 7 weeks ago and this is not their first screw up either. http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/GeneralInfectiousDisease/46423
Comments
The problem for doctors in Africa is the heat and the lack of air conditioning. When working on these outbreaks in the USA they wear what amounts to a space suit. That's tough work in an air conditioned lab. Try wearing all that protective gear in some dirty filthy African crap hole and you rapidly cook your brain.
So these doctors, wanting to help people and save lives, take chances to be able to do so.
Sometimes luck goes against them.
If the virus is as difficult to spread as you're making it out to be, why wear the space suits at all?
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
The problem for doctors in Africa is the heat and the lack of air conditioning. When working on these outbreaks in the USA they wear what amounts to a space suit. That's tough work in an air conditioned lab. Try wearing all that protective gear in some dirty filthy African crap hole and you rapidly cook your brain.
So these doctors, wanting to help people and save lives, take chances to be able to do so.
Sometimes luck goes against them.
If the virus is as difficult to spread as you're making it out to be, why wear the space suits at all?
I'm not making it out to be difficult to spread, or easy or anything else. I'm simply stating what I've heard and read of doctors doing such work, as they describe the problems working on these incidents in Africa.
I'm not making it out to be difficult to spread, or easy or anything else.
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
The risk of Ebola getting out to the general American population from one of these patients being taken to a modern American facility are so near to zero it's laughable to be scared about it.
The cost to setup an American level of intensive care, supporting staff and medical isolation in Africa would be immense. Beginning with reliable power, clean water and high volume air conditioning alone for a hospital sized facility, who wants to pay for all that?
Compare that to bringing sick Americans home to existing facilities. Much cheaper to bring our people home.
The risk of Ebola getting out to the general American population from one of these patients being taken to a modern American facility are so near to zero it's laughable to be scared about it. On the scale of those who lost bladder and bowel control over the fear terrorists would be brought into the American legal and prison system.
Silly fears, based upon worse than an absence of knowledge, more on a denial of knowledge.
The only truly scary thing here is how many Americans have decided to revel in fear more or less as a political statement. Liberals do it about topics like guns, conservatives have their favorite sphincter loosening fears too.
It'd be funny if it didn't get in the way of getting things done so often.
Well said.
I'd actually go even farther and suggest we should transport others who are infected, and willing to come, to our country for testing different treatment methods. Our knowledge about treatment options is very limited -- and this is a serious virus; we should be trying to learn more about it and the options for treating patients who are infected. We could try different treatments, not available if trying to do them in Africa -- like, for example, how do patients react in hyperbolic oxygen chambers?
Extremely tight quarantine practices would need to be in place, but the scientific knowledge we could gain could really help us in some future out-break.
sure sets a stupid precedent and tremendous risk
I agree, however risk is not as important as votes. Certainly such behavior will energize the "bleeding hearts" to vote for more partisanship activity.
quote:Originally posted by spasmcreek
sure sets a stupid precedent and tremendous risk
I agree, however risk is not as important as votes. Certainly such behavior will energize the "bleeding hearts" to vote for more partisanship activity.
Do you attempt to do any analysis of risks? What are you thinking the probabilities are of quarantine efforts failing? And then, even if quarantine efforts fail at the hospital, what do you think the risks are of any sort of "outbreak"?
Realistically, you are looking at minute fractions of one-percent risk of site quarantine failing, then, it would be additional fractions of one-percent for any "outbreak" from a site quarantine failure.
You're many times more likely to be struck by lightening than become infected by Ebola from any patients brought into this country for medical treatment.
To even use the term "risk" is nonsensical. You're operating in the "irrational fear" arena when looking at such extreme probabilities and "being concerned."
For 14 years I was a paramedic at a small county hospital in Georgia, about 90 miles from Atlanta. I took several dozen patients up to Emory, patients who needed heart surgery, brain surgery, etc. which my little hospital could not handle. I was always impressed by the top-notch medical staff that I encountered at Emory.
So, if I were a medic in Georgia today and the call went out, that 2 paramedics were needed to transport these patients, I would have volunteered. You got the best and the brightest docs working this case, I am sure they would have taken the necessary precautions to keep it safe for me. Hell yes I would have volunteered, and I would be the only paramedic in America who had ever transported an Ebola pt.
I risked my life on several ambulance calls to try to save the life of a patient, and, in my private life, I have done several things more dangerous than transporting a pt. from the Marietta airport down to Emory.
1. They are being taken to a research facility, and they will be reasearched and monitored for scientific purposes;
2. The govt isn't footing the bill alone (or at all)
As far as any conspiracy goes, if there is a conspiracy, it is with the Christian charities that tend to place people in harms way or otherwise screw up a localized economy/ecosystem/society in God's name, only to have all hell break loose.
I say it's ok, only because of my assumptions of the following:
1. They are being taken to a research facility, and they will be reasearched and monitored for scientific purposes;
Yeah that really gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing the "professionals" will be handling it. They're taking them to the same research facility that exposed 84 CDC staffers in Atlanta to live anthrax just 7 weeks ago and this is not their first screw up either.
http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/GeneralInfectiousDisease/46423