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quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
9 years ago this was a none issue, then a race baiting president came along and set back race relations in this country 50 years and set this all on a rise for power
all this is nothing more than a power struggle
There is a lot of truth to this statement that will never be reflected in a recognized history of the era.
These men were fighting for self government. Yes, secession was primarily about retaining the right to own slaves, but more importantly it was about honoring the bedrock of our Constitutional Republic as explained in our Declaration of Independence.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
quote:Originally posted by cahas
quote:Originally posted by kimi
Wonderful! Spotslyvania Courthouse?
Correct, almost a two week campaign, appox. 32,000 casualties. I can not begin to imagine what that must have been like.
Quite a few of my ancestors fought there and one of them was killed there on May 12 - very possibly at the Bloody Angle. The battle followed the Wilderness campaign where the union had over 100,000 soldiers to about half that of Lee's Army. Actually the Confederates outfought the Yanks bigtime, there and during the Wilderness battles, but the Confederate forces were overwhelmed by vastly superior numbers.
quote:Originally posted by pwillie
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by randomnut
Come on folks. The war, and the soldiers fighting it, were not fighting about slavery!!!
LOL!
Look, let's get over it already. the War of Northern Aggression was about states rights NOT slavery. The industrial revolution was well along the path of rendering slavery technically and fiscally obsolete. Had the northern industrial complex not forced the South's hand something very different would have happened. I don't know what that something would have been, but it would have been very different.
Slavery was specifically mentioned as a reason for secession by several states. It was codified. Written down. Searchable today. I do not see how the war was not about slavery. And for anyone to deny it is laughable.
See for yourself: https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states
My Great Grand Father was asked why he fought....Because the Yankees were here, and he wanted to defend his homeland...none of my family members owned slaves, but they did take care of Negroes in their communities...before and after the war....there is a census that shows where my Grand father kept a 10 yr old black child they adopted because her parents were deceased...they were family friends....and this is in the deep south...Segregation?...sure,but not in friendship..
why that cannot be true
history states that everyone owned slaves, brutally beat them, raped them, forced them to work hard labor 20hrs a day, fed them bread and water and made them sleep in the weather
if you where a confederate and didnt even own a horse you still owned a slave right?
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
9 years ago this was a none issue, then a race baiting president came along and set back race relations in this country 50 years and set this all on a rise for power
all this is nothing more than a power struggle
There is a lot of truth to this statement that will never be reflected in a recognized history of the era.
These men were fighting for self government. Yes, secession was primarily about retaining the right to own slaves, but more importantly it was about honoring the bedrock of our Constitutional Republic as explained in our Declaration of Independence.
There you go!
Secession was about states' rights. Slavery was one of the many states' rights issues. Even the north recognized this, which is why they would return runaway slaves to their owners, and let's not forget that many slave owners lived in the north.
quote:Originally posted by Dads3040
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
Photo from Gallipoli taken by Mark Christian.
He visited there several years ago and had a great photo essay on the forum about this tragic battle.
Great copy and pics, Mark's story was worthy of National Geographic.
Dads are you saying that the current Turk PM has removed these words?
.
Unfortunately, Yes. The official line is that the memorial is being "revovated".
It likely was due for a good cleaning. This is what it looks like as of June of this year. Cleaning and renovation doesn't usually involve a jackhammer.
Turkey, if it maintains its current path will eventually have to be forced out of NATO.
I find it almost incredible that they are destroying the words and thus a part of the memory and history of Ataturk
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
9 years ago this was a none issue, then a race baiting president came along and set back race relations in this country 50 years and set this all on a rise for power
all this is nothing more than a power struggle
There is a lot of truth to this statement that will never be reflected in a recognized history of the era.
These men were fighting for self government. Yes, secession was primarily about retaining the right to own slaves, but more importantly it was about honoring the bedrock of our Constitutional Republic as explained in our Declaration of Independence.
There you go!
Secession was about states' rights. Slavery was one of the many states' rights issues. Even the north recognized this, which is why they would return runaway slaves to their owners, and let's not forget that many slave owners lived in the north.
Yes. So important a state's right issue that that Slavery was specifically mentioned as a reason for secession.[8D]
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
I don't think anyone could believe that the South all went to war because they owned slaves or supported slavery, nor did all of the North go to war because they were so concerned about the blacks in slavery at the time.
I rather think most Americans have gone to war because they were told to, not necessarily that they supported the cause always.
Plenty of Yankees didn't think to highly of blacks, and surely were not having their daughters marry them and welcoming them into the house.
And of course in as much as you don't beat and starve your mule not every slave owner abused the laborers they owned.
And wasn't Lincoln looking for a solution to the problem when he himself stated "I cannot make it better known than it already is that I strongly favor colonization,".
Lincoln screwed up and should have never pushed the issue. Slavery was on it's way out eventually anyway and would have died without the loss of so many American lives.
Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Mount Rushmore is the Mother of all statues and will take a lot of money to destroy, unless of course "we' just blow it up, as suggested in a now deleted tweet. Guess the reporter? had failed to think it would be a federal crime to blow up federal property.
quote:Originally posted by pwillie
quote:Originally posted by armilite
quote:Originally posted by droptop
The North or South didn't condone, authorize or commit war crimes.
ie: No gas chambers, death camps, sneak attacks before declaring war ie: atrocities against selected peoples. The list could go on.
I would suppose those that ended up in prison camps like say Andersonville would tend to disagree with you. How ever this has nothing to do with the original posters question.
I say let them stand.
The prison ships in New York Harbor, where captured Confederates languished and died of all sorts of disease.War is made to keep simple revelations, it is hell,but when the fighting was over ,they all(most) honored their opposing forces and went home....Tell me how many Confederate Monuments are at Gettysburg? I think the "Dukes of Hazard" etc did more harm than any monument...
I believe you are confusing the first Revolutionary War with the second one, pwillie.
One Union camp, however, Camp Douglas near Chicago, dubbed the 'Union Andersonville' had a death rate in excess of 15%, and some say it was much higher. The shame here, of course, is that the Union had the resources to comfortably feed, cloth and otherwise provide for its prisoners while the Confederacy was facing extreme shortages of virtually everything.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
9 years ago this was a none issue, then a race baiting president came along and set back race relations in this country 50 years and set this all on a rise for power
all this is nothing more than a power struggle
There is a lot of truth to this statement that will never be reflected in a recognized history of the era.
These men were fighting for self government. Yes, secession was primarily about retaining the right to own slaves, but more importantly it was about honoring the bedrock of our Constitutional Republic as explained in our Declaration of Independence.
There you go!
Secession was about states' rights. Slavery was one of the many states' rights issues. Even the north recognized this, which is why they would return runaway slaves to their owners, and let's not forget that many slave owners lived in the north.
Yes. So important a state's right issue that that Slavery was specifically mentioned as a reason for secession.[8D]
Indeed, it was mentioned in detail. Your point is moot where the typical southerner was concerned and why they defended their land with their own blood. Your point is well taken provided you understand that the politicians of both sides were the cause of the war. A war where both sides protected the right of slave owners. So what's your beef to the facts of the matter Mr. P?
Captain Robert James Wilson of Dover, Pope County, Arkansas, was my Great Grandfather on my Mother's side, and enlisted in 1861, joining Scott's Squadron. He was a farmer, and had a general store.
He was promoted to Captain, and fought many battles and skirmishes while connected with General Price's Division, and under command of General Jo Shelby.
He returned home penniless after his discharge, and through thrift and sagacity, raised $1,000 the first year, and bought a store in Norriston, Arkansas. When the railroad extended to Russelville, Captain Wilson moved his store there.
He served as President and co-founder of People's Exchange Bank from its' founding in 1890.
At that time, he was one of the wealthiest men in Pope County.
Oh yeah, his Daddy had slaves. He bought them from Farmers who starved, beat, whipped, mutilated and chained them.
He fed, clothed, educated and Paid them.
He never got a statue, but if he had, and some twisted pinhead wanted to remove, deface, or replace it; Karma don't just come around once.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by pwillie
quote:Originally posted by armilite
quote:Originally posted by droptop
The North or South didn't condone, authorize or commit war crimes.
ie: No gas chambers, death camps, sneak attacks before declaring war ie: atrocities against selected peoples. The list could go on.
I would suppose those that ended up in prison camps like say Andersonville would tend to disagree with you. How ever this has nothing to do with the original posters question.
I say let them stand.
The prison ships in New York Harbor, where captured Confederates languished and died of all sorts of disease.War is made to keep simple revelations, it is hell,but when the fighting was over ,they all(most) honored their opposing forces and went home....Tell me how many Confederate Monuments are at Gettysburg? I think the "Dukes of Hazard" etc did more harm than any monument...
I believe you are confusing the first Revolutionary War with the second one, pwillie.
One Union camp, however, Camp Douglas near Chicago, dubbed the 'Union Andersonville' had a death rate in excess of 15%, and some say it was much higher. The shame here, of course, is that the Union had the resources to comfortably feed, cloth and otherwise provide for its prisoners while the Confederacy was facing extreme shortages of virtually everything.
The shame there was the continuation of war crimes, including reports of outright murder by Lincoln's soldiers.
True enough that the war was fought over states rights. Lincoln was the first President to use the idea of mission creep. The war was going bad for the North and people were upset by all the dead and wounded at home and wanted to get out of this war they thought they were losing. Lincoln introduced the slavery issue as a way to unite the wavering public. Who's in favor of slavery?
Had Lincoln not have been slain, he planned to return the slaves to Africa or put them on reservations.
The South tried to Succeed and the North refused to let them peacefully go, so in effect it really wasn't over Slavery in itself but of the right of the States to Succeed.
If California wants to succeed from the Union today I hope Trump lets them go.
Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
The South tried to Succeed and the North refused to let them peacefully go, so in effect it really wasn't over Slavery in itself but of the right of the States to Succeed.
If California wants to succeed from the Union today I hope Trump lets them go.
Had they succeeded, they would still be seceded.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
Regardless of anybodies political persuasion, these statues are historical. Only enemies of this country want to destroy our history or pervert it for their agenda. They are to stupid to realize that Jefferson tried to abolish slavery in the first draft of the constitution.v Many slave owners back then had no choice but to own slaves. These memorials were mostly all erected by Democrats to begin with. These protesters are the legion of fools.
Lol, I knew that didn't look right but I succeeded in seceding from spelling class. You know it is a poor man who can only spell a word one way, LOL
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
The South tried to Succeed and the North refused to let them peacefully go, so in effect it really wasn't over Slavery in itself but of the right of the States to Succeed.
If California wants to succeed from the Union today I hope Trump lets them go.
Had they succeeded, they would still be seceded.
Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
Comments
9 years ago this was a none issue, then a race baiting president came along and set back race relations in this country 50 years and set this all on a rise for power
all this is nothing more than a power struggle
There is a lot of truth to this statement that will never be reflected in a recognized history of the era.
These men were fighting for self government. Yes, secession was primarily about retaining the right to own slaves, but more importantly it was about honoring the bedrock of our Constitutional Republic as explained in our Declaration of Independence.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by kimi
Wonderful! Spotslyvania Courthouse?
Correct, almost a two week campaign, appox. 32,000 casualties. I can not begin to imagine what that must have been like.
Quite a few of my ancestors fought there and one of them was killed there on May 12 - very possibly at the Bloody Angle. The battle followed the Wilderness campaign where the union had over 100,000 soldiers to about half that of Lee's Army. Actually the Confederates outfought the Yanks bigtime, there and during the Wilderness battles, but the Confederate forces were overwhelmed by vastly superior numbers.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by randomnut
Come on folks. The war, and the soldiers fighting it, were not fighting about slavery!!!
LOL!
Look, let's get over it already. the War of Northern Aggression was about states rights NOT slavery. The industrial revolution was well along the path of rendering slavery technically and fiscally obsolete. Had the northern industrial complex not forced the South's hand something very different would have happened. I don't know what that something would have been, but it would have been very different.
Slavery was specifically mentioned as a reason for secession by several states. It was codified. Written down. Searchable today. I do not see how the war was not about slavery. And for anyone to deny it is laughable.
See for yourself:
https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states
My Great Grand Father was asked why he fought....Because the Yankees were here, and he wanted to defend his homeland...none of my family members owned slaves, but they did take care of Negroes in their communities...before and after the war....there is a census that shows where my Grand father kept a 10 yr old black child they adopted because her parents were deceased...they were family friends....and this is in the deep south...Segregation?...sure,but not in friendship..
why that cannot be true
history states that everyone owned slaves, brutally beat them, raped them, forced them to work hard labor 20hrs a day, fed them bread and water and made them sleep in the weather
if you where a confederate and didnt even own a horse you still owned a slave right?
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
9 years ago this was a none issue, then a race baiting president came along and set back race relations in this country 50 years and set this all on a rise for power
all this is nothing more than a power struggle
There is a lot of truth to this statement that will never be reflected in a recognized history of the era.
These men were fighting for self government. Yes, secession was primarily about retaining the right to own slaves, but more importantly it was about honoring the bedrock of our Constitutional Republic as explained in our Declaration of Independence.
There you go!
Secession was about states' rights. Slavery was one of the many states' rights issues. Even the north recognized this, which is why they would return runaway slaves to their owners, and let's not forget that many slave owners lived in the north.
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
Photo from Gallipoli taken by Mark Christian.
He visited there several years ago and had a great photo essay on the forum about this tragic battle.
Great copy and pics, Mark's story was worthy of National Geographic.
Dads are you saying that the current Turk PM has removed these words?
.
Unfortunately, Yes. The official line is that the memorial is being "revovated".
It likely was due for a good cleaning. This is what it looks like as of June of this year. Cleaning and renovation doesn't usually involve a jackhammer.
Turkey, if it maintains its current path will eventually have to be forced out of NATO.
I find it almost incredible that they are destroying the words and thus a part of the memory and history of Ataturk
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
9 years ago this was a none issue, then a race baiting president came along and set back race relations in this country 50 years and set this all on a rise for power
all this is nothing more than a power struggle
There is a lot of truth to this statement that will never be reflected in a recognized history of the era.
These men were fighting for self government. Yes, secession was primarily about retaining the right to own slaves, but more importantly it was about honoring the bedrock of our Constitutional Republic as explained in our Declaration of Independence.
There you go!
Secession was about states' rights. Slavery was one of the many states' rights issues. Even the north recognized this, which is why they would return runaway slaves to their owners, and let's not forget that many slave owners lived in the north.
Yes. So important a state's right issue that that Slavery was specifically mentioned as a reason for secession.[8D]
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
I rather think most Americans have gone to war because they were told to, not necessarily that they supported the cause always.
Plenty of Yankees didn't think to highly of blacks, and surely were not having their daughters marry them and welcoming them into the house.
And of course in as much as you don't beat and starve your mule not every slave owner abused the laborers they owned.
And wasn't Lincoln looking for a solution to the problem when he himself stated "I cannot make it better known than it already is that I strongly favor colonization,".
Lincoln screwed up and should have never pushed the issue. Slavery was on it's way out eventually anyway and would have died without the loss of so many American lives.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/17/vice-editor-lets-blow-mount-rushmore/
quote:Originally posted by armilite
quote:Originally posted by droptop
The North or South didn't condone, authorize or commit war crimes.
ie: No gas chambers, death camps, sneak attacks before declaring war ie: atrocities against selected peoples. The list could go on.
I would suppose those that ended up in prison camps like say Andersonville would tend to disagree with you. How ever this has nothing to do with the original posters question.
I say let them stand.
The prison ships in New York Harbor, where captured Confederates languished and died of all sorts of disease.War is made to keep simple revelations, it is hell,but when the fighting was over ,they all(most) honored their opposing forces and went home....Tell me how many Confederate Monuments are at Gettysburg? I think the "Dukes of Hazard" etc did more harm than any monument...
I believe you are confusing the first Revolutionary War with the second one, pwillie.
One Union camp, however, Camp Douglas near Chicago, dubbed the 'Union Andersonville' had a death rate in excess of 15%, and some say it was much higher. The shame here, of course, is that the Union had the resources to comfortably feed, cloth and otherwise provide for its prisoners while the Confederacy was facing extreme shortages of virtually everything.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
9 years ago this was a none issue, then a race baiting president came along and set back race relations in this country 50 years and set this all on a rise for power
all this is nothing more than a power struggle
There is a lot of truth to this statement that will never be reflected in a recognized history of the era.
These men were fighting for self government. Yes, secession was primarily about retaining the right to own slaves, but more importantly it was about honoring the bedrock of our Constitutional Republic as explained in our Declaration of Independence.
There you go!
Secession was about states' rights. Slavery was one of the many states' rights issues. Even the north recognized this, which is why they would return runaway slaves to their owners, and let's not forget that many slave owners lived in the north.
Yes. So important a state's right issue that that Slavery was specifically mentioned as a reason for secession.[8D]
Indeed, it was mentioned in detail. Your point is moot where the typical southerner was concerned and why they defended their land with their own blood. Your point is well taken provided you understand that the politicians of both sides were the cause of the war. A war where both sides protected the right of slave owners. So what's your beef to the facts of the matter Mr. P?
He was promoted to Captain, and fought many battles and skirmishes while connected with General Price's Division, and under command of General Jo Shelby.
He returned home penniless after his discharge, and through thrift and sagacity, raised $1,000 the first year, and bought a store in Norriston, Arkansas. When the railroad extended to Russelville, Captain Wilson moved his store there.
He served as President and co-founder of People's Exchange Bank from its' founding in 1890.
At that time, he was one of the wealthiest men in Pope County.
Oh yeah, his Daddy had slaves. He bought them from Farmers who starved, beat, whipped, mutilated and chained them.
He fed, clothed, educated and Paid them.
He never got a statue, but if he had, and some twisted pinhead wanted to remove, deface, or replace it; Karma don't just come around once.
quote:Originally posted by pwillie
quote:Originally posted by armilite
quote:Originally posted by droptop
The North or South didn't condone, authorize or commit war crimes.
ie: No gas chambers, death camps, sneak attacks before declaring war ie: atrocities against selected peoples. The list could go on.
I would suppose those that ended up in prison camps like say Andersonville would tend to disagree with you. How ever this has nothing to do with the original posters question.
I say let them stand.
The prison ships in New York Harbor, where captured Confederates languished and died of all sorts of disease.War is made to keep simple revelations, it is hell,but when the fighting was over ,they all(most) honored their opposing forces and went home....Tell me how many Confederate Monuments are at Gettysburg? I think the "Dukes of Hazard" etc did more harm than any monument...
I believe you are confusing the first Revolutionary War with the second one, pwillie.
One Union camp, however, Camp Douglas near Chicago, dubbed the 'Union Andersonville' had a death rate in excess of 15%, and some say it was much higher. The shame here, of course, is that the Union had the resources to comfortably feed, cloth and otherwise provide for its prisoners while the Confederacy was facing extreme shortages of virtually everything.
The shame there was the continuation of war crimes, including reports of outright murder by Lincoln's soldiers.
Had Lincoln not have been slain, he planned to return the slaves to Africa or put them on reservations.
If California wants to succeed from the Union today I hope Trump lets them go.
The South tried to Succeed and the North refused to let them peacefully go, so in effect it really wasn't over Slavery in itself but of the right of the States to Succeed.
If California wants to succeed from the Union today I hope Trump lets them go.
Had they succeeded, they would still be seceded.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
The South tried to Succeed and the North refused to let them peacefully go, so in effect it really wasn't over Slavery in itself but of the right of the States to Succeed.
If California wants to succeed from the Union today I hope Trump lets them go.
Had they succeeded, they would still be seceded.