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quote:Originally posted by buffalobo
ChrisInTempe, how is your post any different that some liberal or race baiter playing the race card or shouting racist?
I didn't get that at all.
I thought he was just pointing out that being a patriotic American and Muslim were not necessarily mutually exclusive.
quote:Originally posted by Colonel Plink
quote:Originally posted by buffalobo
ChrisInTempe, how is your post any different that some liberal or race baiter playing the race card or shouting racist?
I didn't get that at all.
I thought he was just pointing out that being a patriotic American and Muslim were not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Went back and reread previous posts, you may be right, I may have misinterpreted. Post deleted pending further info.
Yes, posting those headstones from Arlington National Cemetery is meant to show that Muslims have served our Republic faithfully and bravely. Every time I hear or read people trying to make it all about the religion angle I am reminded of those who have died fighting for this country. There's a history there that goes all the way to the Revolutionary War.
The religion is not indicative of Evil. Tribalism and ancient regional customs are the source of the Evil.
Doesn't mean I like the religion, there's not a whole hell of a lot about any major organized religion that appeals to me. People have mucked them all up something awful over the centuries.
I thought showing the headstones was a good idea. I think we get the notion that it's "US protecting THEM" or even "us VS them"...but we have to realize that to many Muslims, they are AMERICANS and will fight for the US no matter where that takes them, even against other Muslims.
Do I think that is something special? No. It's like when the US sent soldiers to fight the Nazis. Most of them were Christians, fighting other Christians.
However, I think "radicals" or "fanatics" come in all flavors. The Nazis were certainly radicals and fanatics. They were also Christians. Doesn't mean they represent the religion.
The headstones of KIA Muslims show that anyone can be a loyal American.
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
Humayun Saqib Muazzam Khan
Captain, United States Army
Sep 9 1976 to Jun 8 2004
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Ayman Abdelrahman Taha
Staff Sergeant, United States Army
Jul 2 1974 to Dec 30 2005
Operation Iraqi Freedom
James Michael Ahearn
Major, United States Army
Nov 3 1963 to July 5 2007
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan
Specialist, United States Army
Feb 12 1987 to Aug 6 2007
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Ali Hussam Abass Alrubaeye
Captain, Iraqi Security Force
May 30 2005
What are the odds that a sexual predator, wife beater or other deviant happens to be a soldier KIA?
How exactly does that validate their actions and beliefs? There is NO dispute that islam contradicts everything the US stands for.
The only difference is islam cowers behind the bill of rights in order to subvert it.
Feel free to delude yourself into thinking there are "muslim Americans" and ignore the fact that the two are diametrically opposing ideologies.
I'm sure there are many friendly child molesters out there but I seriously doubt it would be socially acceptable to symbolize that on a headstone.
"There is NO dispute that islam contradicts everything the US stands for."
I dispute that. And I've been to the middle east and many Islamic countries, both in peace AND during war. I've fought with, and against, Muslims. Have you?
People are people, all over the world. Are you sure you're not just angry at the RADICALS? I'll agree with you against them--but not your blanket opinion against American Muslims.
The fact that there are people who are AMERICAN CITIZENS and also profess to support the religion Islam at the same time proves there are American Muslims. Delude myself into thinking that? It's merely a fact.
You're apparently one of those who doesn't let facts get in the way of your beliefs. I feel sorry for you. You must be an angry, unhappy person.
Do you judge the same against American Jews? American gays? American Buddhists? American Hindus? American (add group name here)? Certainly each of those groups I'm sure you have SOMETHING against--and they each have aspects which are contrary to most Straight, Christian, White Americans. You certainly have opinions on sexual predators and wife beaters. I wonder why that is?
I don't in any way plan, nor intend, to change your mind. But your brand of racism which hides behind "patriotism" really has no part in a modern society. And I can't wait to hear your intelligent, well thought out response to this.
"There is NO dispute that islam contradicts everything the US stands for."
I dispute that. And I've been to the middle east and many Islamic countries, both in peace AND during war. I've fought with, and against, Muslims. Have you?
People are people, all over the world. Are you sure you're not just angry at the RADICALS? I'll agree with you against them--but not your blanket opinion against American Muslims.
The fact that there are people who are AMERICAN CITIZENS and also profess to support the religion Islam at the same time proves there are American Muslims. Delude myself into thinking that? It's merely a fact.
You're apparently one of those who doesn't let facts get in the way of your beliefs. I feel sorry for you. You must be an angry, unhappy person.
Do you judge the same against American Jews? American gays? American Buddhists? American Hindus? American (add group name here)? Certainly each of those groups I'm sure you have SOMETHING against--and they each have aspects which are contrary to most Straight, Christian, White Americans. You certainly have opinions on sexual predators and wife beaters. I wonder why that is?
I don't in any way plan, nor intend, to change your mind. But your brand of racism which hides behind "patriotism" really has no part in a modern society. And I can't wait to hear your intelligent, well thought out response to this.
So ya get a lot of Muslims up in the cockpit with ya?
Don
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.
Yeah, I've had a couple. I even know an "American Muslim" who was COMMANDING OFFICER of a U.S. Navy squadron! And this was DURING this current conflict. He'll be a Navy Captain next year.
He's a good guy, a good friend, and a hell of an aviator.
quote:Originally posted by Navybat
Yeah, I've had a couple. I even know an "American Muslim" who was COMMANDING OFFICER of a U.S. Navy squadron! And this was DURING this current conflict. He'll be a Navy Captain next year.
He's a good guy, a good friend, and a hell of an aviator.
And NO, it's not me! [8D]
So ya speak much of that farasi or pashton language?
Don
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.
quote:Originally posted by Navybat
I dispute that.
Then I suggest you do some research on shariah law and it's role within islam.
quote:
And I've been to the middle east and many Islamic countries, both in peace AND during war. I've fought with, and against, Muslims. Have you?
Yes.
quote:
Are you sure you're not just angry at the RADICALS?
I'm not "angry" at anyone but I do take issue with those who use military service as "get outta' debate free" card.
quote:
The fact that there are people who are AMERICAN CITIZENS and also profess to support the religion Islam at the same time proves there are American Muslims.
Not interested in playing semantics, it's was only vague if you wanted it to be.
quote:
You must be an angry, unhappy person.
Generally speaking, no but better that than oblivious.
quote:
Do you judge the same against American Jews? American gays? American Buddhists? American Hindus? American (add group name here)?
Certainly each of those groups I'm sure you have SOMETHING against--and they each have aspects which are contrary to most Straight, Christian, White Americans.
You couldn't be more wrong. I'm all for self expression, freedom of (or from) religion and loving whomever you want.
quote:
You certainly have opinions on sexual predators and wife beaters. I wonder why that is?
I thought they were very fitting examples, considering the topic. [;)]
quote:
But your brand of racism which hides behind "patriotism" really has no part in a modern society. And I can't wait to hear your intelligent, well thought out response to this.
Racism? Me thinks you're confused. No, we're talking about a religious, social and political ideology. These are choices not genetics and yes, I can and will exercise my right to discriminate and scrutinize anyone who subscribes to a barbaric and violent mindset. Other religions have gotten their act together, what's islam's excuse?
There was a time I thought as you do. I did research, I asked questions and began studing the quran and the haddiths. That is how I arrived where I am today.
A legitimate question(not a jab):
What do you know about islam?
My respect for you has gone WAY up. That was a very lucid, well thought out, rebuttal. I think you and I can agree amicably to disagree. Thank you for proving you are NOT one of these knee-jerk, uneducated boors who just bash things they don't understand.
Well done, Sir.
And Don, no, I don't speak Pashtu nor Farsi, nor Urdu, nor Arabic. Why? Does that matter?
My respect for you has gone WAY up. That was a very lucid, well thought out, rebuttal. I think you and I can agree amicably to disagree. Thank you for proving you are NOT one of these knee-jerk, uneducated boors who just bash things they don't understand.
Well done, Sir.
And Don, no, I don't speak Pashtu nor Farsi, nor Urdu, nor Arabic. Why? Does that matter?
Just curious....
Don
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.
quote:Originally posted by kimi
There are a great many in the Renton, Washington area, along with a big mosque near Valley Medical Center. There is no telling how many Muslims are in the Seattle the metro area.
It's in the tens of thousands. Wife works for WA DSHS and gets at least 15 calls a day from them. Tons of 'em are recent refugee's from Somalia. WTH they are doing here is anyones guess--they claim political assylum[xx(] The amount of aid they can receive is sickening. Full medical, dental, food cards, housing allowances, cash grants, school grants, free interpreter services and a case manager to handle it all. They come here sick with diseases and a huge chip on their shoulder thinking they are owed all of this aid forever. At least with respect to the Somali's they bring nothing to the table-they are unskilled for the most part and stick to jobs like taxi drivers and laborers.
quote:Originally posted by CS8161
We have a bunch here, they own most of the motels and hotels in the area..big surprise there.[xx(]
is that a a bad thing?
Comments
ChrisInTempe, how is your post any different that some liberal or race baiter playing the race card or shouting racist?
I didn't get that at all.
I thought he was just pointing out that being a patriotic American and Muslim were not necessarily mutually exclusive.
quote:Originally posted by buffalobo
ChrisInTempe, how is your post any different that some liberal or race baiter playing the race card or shouting racist?
I didn't get that at all.
I thought he was just pointing out that being a patriotic American and Muslim were not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Went back and reread previous posts, you may be right, I may have misinterpreted. Post deleted pending further info.
Edit - Thanks Col.
quote:Originally posted by Colonel Plink
quote:Originally posted by buffalobo
I didn't get that at all.
I thought he was just pointing out that being a patriotic American and Muslim were not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Went back and reread previous posts, you may be right, I may have misinterpreted. Post deleted pending further info.
Edit - Thanks Col.
Or we might just disagree on the topic.
It wouldn't affect the high regard I have for you at all[8D]
The religion is not indicative of Evil. Tribalism and ancient regional customs are the source of the Evil.
Doesn't mean I like the religion, there's not a whole hell of a lot about any major organized religion that appeals to me. People have mucked them all up something awful over the centuries.
Do I think that is something special? No. It's like when the US sent soldiers to fight the Nazis. Most of them were Christians, fighting other Christians.
However, I think "radicals" or "fanatics" come in all flavors. The Nazis were certainly radicals and fanatics. They were also Christians. Doesn't mean they represent the religion.
The headstones of KIA Muslims show that anyone can be a loyal American.
Humayun Saqib Muazzam Khan
Captain, United States Army
Sep 9 1976 to Jun 8 2004
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Ayman Abdelrahman Taha
Staff Sergeant, United States Army
Jul 2 1974 to Dec 30 2005
Operation Iraqi Freedom
James Michael Ahearn
Major, United States Army
Nov 3 1963 to July 5 2007
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan
Specialist, United States Army
Feb 12 1987 to Aug 6 2007
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Ali Hussam Abass Alrubaeye
Captain, Iraqi Security Force
May 30 2005
What are the odds that a sexual predator, wife beater or other deviant happens to be a soldier KIA?
How exactly does that validate their actions and beliefs? There is NO dispute that islam contradicts everything the US stands for.
The only difference is islam cowers behind the bill of rights in order to subvert it.
Feel free to delude yourself into thinking there are "muslim Americans" and ignore the fact that the two are diametrically opposing ideologies.
I'm sure there are many friendly child molesters out there but I seriously doubt it would be socially acceptable to symbolize that on a headstone.
On second thought, scratch that, I was wrong.
"There is NO dispute that islam contradicts everything the US stands for."
I dispute that. And I've been to the middle east and many Islamic countries, both in peace AND during war. I've fought with, and against, Muslims. Have you?
People are people, all over the world. Are you sure you're not just angry at the RADICALS? I'll agree with you against them--but not your blanket opinion against American Muslims.
The fact that there are people who are AMERICAN CITIZENS and also profess to support the religion Islam at the same time proves there are American Muslims. Delude myself into thinking that? It's merely a fact.
You're apparently one of those who doesn't let facts get in the way of your beliefs. I feel sorry for you. You must be an angry, unhappy person.
Do you judge the same against American Jews? American gays? American Buddhists? American Hindus? American (add group name here)? Certainly each of those groups I'm sure you have SOMETHING against--and they each have aspects which are contrary to most Straight, Christian, White Americans. You certainly have opinions on sexual predators and wife beaters. I wonder why that is?
I don't in any way plan, nor intend, to change your mind. But your brand of racism which hides behind "patriotism" really has no part in a modern society. And I can't wait to hear your intelligent, well thought out response to this.
Monkey,
"There is NO dispute that islam contradicts everything the US stands for."
I dispute that. And I've been to the middle east and many Islamic countries, both in peace AND during war. I've fought with, and against, Muslims. Have you?
People are people, all over the world. Are you sure you're not just angry at the RADICALS? I'll agree with you against them--but not your blanket opinion against American Muslims.
The fact that there are people who are AMERICAN CITIZENS and also profess to support the religion Islam at the same time proves there are American Muslims. Delude myself into thinking that? It's merely a fact.
You're apparently one of those who doesn't let facts get in the way of your beliefs. I feel sorry for you. You must be an angry, unhappy person.
Do you judge the same against American Jews? American gays? American Buddhists? American Hindus? American (add group name here)? Certainly each of those groups I'm sure you have SOMETHING against--and they each have aspects which are contrary to most Straight, Christian, White Americans. You certainly have opinions on sexual predators and wife beaters. I wonder why that is?
I don't in any way plan, nor intend, to change your mind. But your brand of racism which hides behind "patriotism" really has no part in a modern society. And I can't wait to hear your intelligent, well thought out response to this.
So ya get a lot of Muslims up in the cockpit with ya?
Don
He's a good guy, a good friend, and a hell of an aviator.
And NO, it's not me! [8D]
Yeah, I've had a couple. I even know an "American Muslim" who was COMMANDING OFFICER of a U.S. Navy squadron! And this was DURING this current conflict. He'll be a Navy Captain next year.
He's a good guy, a good friend, and a hell of an aviator.
And NO, it's not me! [8D]
So ya speak much of that farasi or pashton language?
Don
I dispute that.
Then I suggest you do some research on shariah law and it's role within islam.
quote:
And I've been to the middle east and many Islamic countries, both in peace AND during war. I've fought with, and against, Muslims. Have you?
Yes.
quote:
Are you sure you're not just angry at the RADICALS?
I'm not "angry" at anyone but I do take issue with those who use military service as "get outta' debate free" card.
quote:
The fact that there are people who are AMERICAN CITIZENS and also profess to support the religion Islam at the same time proves there are American Muslims.
Not interested in playing semantics, it's was only vague if you wanted it to be.
quote:
You must be an angry, unhappy person.
Generally speaking, no but better that than oblivious.
quote:
Do you judge the same against American Jews? American gays? American Buddhists? American Hindus? American (add group name here)?
Certainly each of those groups I'm sure you have SOMETHING against--and they each have aspects which are contrary to most Straight, Christian, White Americans.
You couldn't be more wrong. I'm all for self expression, freedom of (or from) religion and loving whomever you want.
quote:
You certainly have opinions on sexual predators and wife beaters. I wonder why that is?
I thought they were very fitting examples, considering the topic. [;)]
quote:
But your brand of racism which hides behind "patriotism" really has no part in a modern society. And I can't wait to hear your intelligent, well thought out response to this.
Racism? Me thinks you're confused. No, we're talking about a religious, social and political ideology. These are choices not genetics and yes, I can and will exercise my right to discriminate and scrutinize anyone who subscribes to a barbaric and violent mindset. Other religions have gotten their act together, what's islam's excuse?
There was a time I thought as you do. I did research, I asked questions and began studing the quran and the haddiths. That is how I arrived where I am today.
A legitimate question(not a jab):
What do you know about islam?
My respect for you has gone WAY up. That was a very lucid, well thought out, rebuttal. I think you and I can agree amicably to disagree. Thank you for proving you are NOT one of these knee-jerk, uneducated boors who just bash things they don't understand.
Well done, Sir.
And Don, no, I don't speak Pashtu nor Farsi, nor Urdu, nor Arabic. Why? Does that matter?
Monkey,
My respect for you has gone WAY up. That was a very lucid, well thought out, rebuttal. I think you and I can agree amicably to disagree. Thank you for proving you are NOT one of these knee-jerk, uneducated boors who just bash things they don't understand.
Well done, Sir.
And Don, no, I don't speak Pashtu nor Farsi, nor Urdu, nor Arabic. Why? Does that matter?
Just curious....
Don
There are a great many in the Renton, Washington area, along with a big mosque near Valley Medical Center. There is no telling how many Muslims are in the Seattle the metro area.
It's in the tens of thousands. Wife works for WA DSHS and gets at least 15 calls a day from them. Tons of 'em are recent refugee's from Somalia. WTH they are doing here is anyones guess--they claim political assylum[xx(] The amount of aid they can receive is sickening. Full medical, dental, food cards, housing allowances, cash grants, school grants, free interpreter services and a case manager to handle it all. They come here sick with diseases and a huge chip on their shoulder thinking they are owed all of this aid forever. At least with respect to the Somali's they bring nothing to the table-they are unskilled for the most part and stick to jobs like taxi drivers and laborers.
We have a bunch here, they own most of the motels and hotels in the area..big surprise there.[xx(]
is that a a bad thing?