In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
LIGHTS FOR CCW AND LAW ENFORCEMENT
watchmaker
Member Posts: 19 ✭✭
LIGHTS FOR CCW AND LAW ENFORCEMENT
Hi guys,
I have about 200 lights between flashlights and tactical lights, and also this idea of taking beam shots, so members can compare between them.
First, lets take a look at some lights that are used by police for traffic stops, search and even clearing houses.
These are not for CCW, but good to have in the car or truck to take care of big illumination needs.
This post will try to show how different lights used in law enforcement compare with each other, and will clarify the difference between the lumen ratings used in Luxeon (LED) lights and incandescent lights.
In short, I will show (through pictures) how Luxeons lack definition when used at increased distances.
I have maintained for a long time that LED Luxeons don't have the range over the incandescent to really be helpful for law enforcement. They are excellent lights to use inside the house; their beams are very clean, white and with substantial flood, and in the average house, that is all you need. However, when taken outside to the backyard, woods, or large structure and the distance to the target is 25 yards or more, they lack definition (as they lack the red spectrum of light), and their poor penetration of fog or rain makes them inefficient to clearly identify what you are seeing at that distance.
Moreover, when the subject being illuminated is an animal with a light-drinking fur (depth of texture), the blending effect of the LED's (against the background) will cause the observer to lose perspective.
LOW LIGHT FOR WRITING
As I am in contact with police officers that tell me what they really need to perform their functions at night, I think that I know more than the average guy what is needed for those officers.
What those experienced officers want are three lights that will cover specific illumination chores.
First, when writing a ticket at night, or looking for a dropped pencil in the floor of their own car or any other close up chore, they want a flood light in LED form: small and with an output of 20 lumens or less (LED lumens), and preferably with a clip incorporated to free both hands for holding the pad and writing.
LEO's that have used the Fenix LOP (1 AAA) consider this light ideal (except for the lack of a clip). Another favorite is the ARC AAA. These lights can be held in the mouth without any discomfort.
Fenix has put out a bigger light (1 AA) with two stages output, and the lower output will be also ideal for these chores.
THE BELT LIGHT
Those same officers want to have a good light on their belt. Some prefer the two cell 123's lights like the Surefire 6P, G2, or C-2 for their better flood beam over the more tightly focused Streamlight Scorpion, TL-2 and Night Fighter II (it is important for them to be able to cover an average room with the light, without the need of panning it).
They look for a run time of one hour and an output of 65 lumens.
Some opt for more intense lights like the Surefire 9P or the C-3 with their 105 lumens and one hour run time.
The Streamlight TL-3 is a little too tightly focused for clearing rooms, but it will do fine in an average backyard.
In LED form (Luxeon V), the Surefire L-4 is a good contender due to the excellent flood light that it puts out at medium range inside a house.
The main thing is that the officers want to avoid losing precious seconds by panning a light when entering a room. That is why the Surefires are preferred over the tightly focused others brands.
HERE IS A PICTURE OF SOME OF THE CONTENDERS, FROM LEFT TO RIGHT; THE MAGCHARGER 200 LUMENS AND 6 VOLTS BATTERY STICK, THE STREAMLIGHT ULTRA STINGER 295 LUMENS AND 6 VOLTS BATTERY STICK AND THE BOREALIS 1050 LUMENS (TWO MILLION CANDLEPOWER) AND ROLLS ROYCE BATTERY CARRIER WITH 12 VOLTS SYSTEM
THE CAR LIGHT
These police officers wear a light holder in their belt (a plastic and leather ring). On exiting their cars, they slip in the ring one of the powerful rechargeable lights, most commonly the Magcharger (200 lumens) or the Ultra Stinger (295 lumens) and sometimes a BOREALIS 1050 lumens.
Those are ideal lights for search, clearing houses, backyards, warehouses etc. Being rechargeable, they are always used with a maximum run time (taken out of the charger at start of the shift), a thing that you can not do with 123 batteries unless you are willing to dump half-used batteries at the start of a shift.
Their large diameter (2 inches) reflectors put more light at a longer distance than any of the belt lights. Even though some of the belt lights approach 200 lumens, they do it with reduced run time and much reduced throw, due to their small diameter reflectors.
A Magcharger will put a spot of light at 150 yards, as will the Ultra Stinger and a BOREALIS, which has the capability of illuminating the whole road for 250 yards.
Those lights are ideal for traffic stops, accident sites and the ones with major lumen output can even illuminate through heavily tinted windows, which makes them ideal car's lights or for using in an emergency situation.
Lets start with the popular Surefire G-2 (or 6 P) at 65 lumens, the target is the 8 by 12 tool shed at 30 yards.
We are going to pit the Surefire G-2 65 lumens $35.00 against the Surefire Digital Lumamax L-4 (also 65 lumens and with a price tag of $160.00).
Surefire G-2 65 lumens
Surefire L-4 Luxeon V, LED, 65 lumens
And now we are going to pit the Surefire 6 P with the P-61 120 lumen lamp (20 minutes run time) against the best Luxeon LED thrower that I have (similar to the cree LED).
This is a Mc Gizmo PR T head with a TWOJ bin Luxeon doing 120 plus lumens.
Surefire Centurion C-2 (same as the 6P) with the P-61 lamp, 120 lumens.
And the PR T with TWOJ bin Luxeon, (LED) @ 120 lumens
And now we are going to show a belt light of 200 lumens (The Surefire Centurion III with the P-91 lamp, 200 lumens, 20 minutes run) and three cars' lights of 200 lumens plus and beyond.
Surefire Centurion C-III, 200 lumens P-91 lamp.
And here the Magcharger also 200 lumens, with its bigger reflector and tighter focus will throw the light at 150 yards, while the Centurion III range will stop at 45 or 50 yards.
Magcharger 200 lumens (40,000 candlepowers)
And here is the Ultra Stinger, the most powerful of the Stingers rechargeables from Streamlight with 295 lumens and 75,000 candlepower, although this figure is largely inflated when you consider that is about "bulb" lumens and not torch or "real" lumens.
And now the BOREALIS, with the format of a 3 D (12 1/2 inches long) outputting 1050 lumens (two million candlepower) for 50 minutes.
Do I need to say anything about the importance of a powerful light for police use when clearing a backyard or wooded area?
As you well can see the capabilities of each light from these pictures.
Best regards,
Watchmaker
Hi guys,
I have about 200 lights between flashlights and tactical lights, and also this idea of taking beam shots, so members can compare between them.
First, lets take a look at some lights that are used by police for traffic stops, search and even clearing houses.
These are not for CCW, but good to have in the car or truck to take care of big illumination needs.
This post will try to show how different lights used in law enforcement compare with each other, and will clarify the difference between the lumen ratings used in Luxeon (LED) lights and incandescent lights.
In short, I will show (through pictures) how Luxeons lack definition when used at increased distances.
I have maintained for a long time that LED Luxeons don't have the range over the incandescent to really be helpful for law enforcement. They are excellent lights to use inside the house; their beams are very clean, white and with substantial flood, and in the average house, that is all you need. However, when taken outside to the backyard, woods, or large structure and the distance to the target is 25 yards or more, they lack definition (as they lack the red spectrum of light), and their poor penetration of fog or rain makes them inefficient to clearly identify what you are seeing at that distance.
Moreover, when the subject being illuminated is an animal with a light-drinking fur (depth of texture), the blending effect of the LED's (against the background) will cause the observer to lose perspective.
LOW LIGHT FOR WRITING
As I am in contact with police officers that tell me what they really need to perform their functions at night, I think that I know more than the average guy what is needed for those officers.
What those experienced officers want are three lights that will cover specific illumination chores.
First, when writing a ticket at night, or looking for a dropped pencil in the floor of their own car or any other close up chore, they want a flood light in LED form: small and with an output of 20 lumens or less (LED lumens), and preferably with a clip incorporated to free both hands for holding the pad and writing.
LEO's that have used the Fenix LOP (1 AAA) consider this light ideal (except for the lack of a clip). Another favorite is the ARC AAA. These lights can be held in the mouth without any discomfort.
Fenix has put out a bigger light (1 AA) with two stages output, and the lower output will be also ideal for these chores.
THE BELT LIGHT
Those same officers want to have a good light on their belt. Some prefer the two cell 123's lights like the Surefire 6P, G2, or C-2 for their better flood beam over the more tightly focused Streamlight Scorpion, TL-2 and Night Fighter II (it is important for them to be able to cover an average room with the light, without the need of panning it).
They look for a run time of one hour and an output of 65 lumens.
Some opt for more intense lights like the Surefire 9P or the C-3 with their 105 lumens and one hour run time.
The Streamlight TL-3 is a little too tightly focused for clearing rooms, but it will do fine in an average backyard.
In LED form (Luxeon V), the Surefire L-4 is a good contender due to the excellent flood light that it puts out at medium range inside a house.
The main thing is that the officers want to avoid losing precious seconds by panning a light when entering a room. That is why the Surefires are preferred over the tightly focused others brands.
HERE IS A PICTURE OF SOME OF THE CONTENDERS, FROM LEFT TO RIGHT; THE MAGCHARGER 200 LUMENS AND 6 VOLTS BATTERY STICK, THE STREAMLIGHT ULTRA STINGER 295 LUMENS AND 6 VOLTS BATTERY STICK AND THE BOREALIS 1050 LUMENS (TWO MILLION CANDLEPOWER) AND ROLLS ROYCE BATTERY CARRIER WITH 12 VOLTS SYSTEM
THE CAR LIGHT
These police officers wear a light holder in their belt (a plastic and leather ring). On exiting their cars, they slip in the ring one of the powerful rechargeable lights, most commonly the Magcharger (200 lumens) or the Ultra Stinger (295 lumens) and sometimes a BOREALIS 1050 lumens.
Those are ideal lights for search, clearing houses, backyards, warehouses etc. Being rechargeable, they are always used with a maximum run time (taken out of the charger at start of the shift), a thing that you can not do with 123 batteries unless you are willing to dump half-used batteries at the start of a shift.
Their large diameter (2 inches) reflectors put more light at a longer distance than any of the belt lights. Even though some of the belt lights approach 200 lumens, they do it with reduced run time and much reduced throw, due to their small diameter reflectors.
A Magcharger will put a spot of light at 150 yards, as will the Ultra Stinger and a BOREALIS, which has the capability of illuminating the whole road for 250 yards.
Those lights are ideal for traffic stops, accident sites and the ones with major lumen output can even illuminate through heavily tinted windows, which makes them ideal car's lights or for using in an emergency situation.
Lets start with the popular Surefire G-2 (or 6 P) at 65 lumens, the target is the 8 by 12 tool shed at 30 yards.
We are going to pit the Surefire G-2 65 lumens $35.00 against the Surefire Digital Lumamax L-4 (also 65 lumens and with a price tag of $160.00).
Surefire G-2 65 lumens
Surefire L-4 Luxeon V, LED, 65 lumens
And now we are going to pit the Surefire 6 P with the P-61 120 lumen lamp (20 minutes run time) against the best Luxeon LED thrower that I have (similar to the cree LED).
This is a Mc Gizmo PR T head with a TWOJ bin Luxeon doing 120 plus lumens.
Surefire Centurion C-2 (same as the 6P) with the P-61 lamp, 120 lumens.
And the PR T with TWOJ bin Luxeon, (LED) @ 120 lumens
And now we are going to show a belt light of 200 lumens (The Surefire Centurion III with the P-91 lamp, 200 lumens, 20 minutes run) and three cars' lights of 200 lumens plus and beyond.
Surefire Centurion C-III, 200 lumens P-91 lamp.
And here the Magcharger also 200 lumens, with its bigger reflector and tighter focus will throw the light at 150 yards, while the Centurion III range will stop at 45 or 50 yards.
Magcharger 200 lumens (40,000 candlepowers)
And here is the Ultra Stinger, the most powerful of the Stingers rechargeables from Streamlight with 295 lumens and 75,000 candlepower, although this figure is largely inflated when you consider that is about "bulb" lumens and not torch or "real" lumens.
And now the BOREALIS, with the format of a 3 D (12 1/2 inches long) outputting 1050 lumens (two million candlepower) for 50 minutes.
Do I need to say anything about the importance of a powerful light for police use when clearing a backyard or wooded area?
As you well can see the capabilities of each light from these pictures.
Best regards,
Watchmaker
Comments
As a continuation of the first post and for whatever value it has, I am going to do some more shoot outs of a mix of popular Luxeon lights and incandescent ones.
The first order of things is to change the target area, to make it a little more interesting to my viewers.
Consequently I replaced the tool shed target with a deer and bear mount.
The deer head mounted on the tree is exactly 26 yards from my second story window from where the lights are shinning.
The bear head in the fence is only six more feet further away from the tree.
In the summer I have plenty of bushy cover in the area, but this time I had to be creative and cut and nailed to the tree and fence, some branches from a pine tree, not to hide the animals from view, just to provide a natural blending effect, like they were coming from a natural habitat.
The camera was placed twelve foot away from the tree (and eighteen feet from the bear) in a solid tripod, and the night camera mode used (this mode shows in pictures the same light values that I am seeing with my own eyes).
The close proximity of the camera is for the viewer to see the target with clarity; if I were to place the camera 26 yards away the target will be awfully small.
Here it is the target area and how it looks in daylight.
And here are the contenders, but before I describe them, let me voice my opinion that some manufacturers of Luxeon lights label the output in lumens in quite a wild way.
From left to right: # 1 Fenix L1P at about 40 lumens, # 2 Nuwaii Q III at 75 lumens (yes, sure!) # 3 Surefire L-4 Digital Lumamax at 65 lumens (this is a Luxeon V which is quite a flood light but with little throw).
# 4 Streamlight Task-Light 2 L (two Lithium 3 volts batteries, high and low output,
Cost is about $77.00) This is billed at a High Flux Luxeon III. With 75 lumens, which I think is about right.
# 5 is the Streamlight Pro Polymer 4 AA with a Luxeon I, billed as 40 lumens (3,500 candlepower according to the advertising) which I think is quite wrong, as it appears to me to have about 70 lumens or more, this light has a bigger and deeper reflector than the others lights and the beam is concentrated more than the others. This is a great light for the price of about $40.00
# 6, this is a PR T Luxeon III head done for me by master modder McGizmo, it is set on a Surefire E2e body and I am using two rechargeable 123's with a voltage of 4.2 volts in it.
This light is my best Luxeon III light and up to two years ago it was pretty HOT STUFF, today the cree LED's are approaching it in intensity, although it has not been overpower by any other Luxeon, yet.
My friends told me I have two of the Integrated Sphere Spectotometers just above my nose, those spheres are telling me that this light makes 120 to 130 "real" lumens.
# 7, this is A Surefire Centurion II in black with the P-60 lamp (65 lumens) this represents all the others Surefires lights that use this lamp, G-2, 6P. Z-2. etc.
# 8, this is another Surefire Centurion II, but in Hard anodized, it wears the HOLA lamp. The P-61 with the output of 120 lumens for 20 minutes.
# 9 this is a Surefire Centurion III (3 cells) this is usually sold with the P-90 lamp that makes 105 lumens for one hour, but in this case is set up with the P-91 lamp for 200 lumens for 20 minutes, as you will see in the picture later, the floodlight effect is great at 26 yards. All those P's lamps start to lose range at about 45 to 50 yards, this is because the reflectors are fabricated to produce a good flood so police officers can clear houses with them.
I took this particular light out of my Remington 742 rifle, where it sits in the special quick detach mount in a Picattiny rail.
# 10, this is the BEAR CUB, this light weights 13 oz and measures 9 inches long, it works with two Lithium Ion computer batteries, and produces 220 plus lumens for 90 minutes. Thanks to the big and deep 2 inch mirror-like reflector, this light concentrates the beam like a laser and has a throw of 120 to 150 yards.
So the 26 yards distance is like child play for the Bear Cub and the light is so intense at the target that they had to close their eyes!
# 11, (last on the left lying in horizontal position next to the Bear Cub) this light is a KL-1 head Luxeon I of three years ago, it is set up in a Surefire Outdoorsman body and the lumens output is no more than 20, consequently I decided to strike it out from the competition, there is no room in my stable for weaklings and I will present it to my nephew on his birthday quite soon.
And now let's go to the pictures:
Fenix L1P (40 lumens) Luxeon I
Nuwaii Q III (advertised at 75 lumens in a website, which I don't believe) Luxeon III.
Surefire L-4 Digital Lumamax (65 lumens) this is very flood light and the lumens spread in a very wide area, so it cannot be expected to have a good throw at 26 yards. (Luxeon V ~which are 4 of the one watt together)
Streamlight Task Light 2 L about 75 lumens on high, works on two 123's batteries and has two levels of illumination. High Flux Luxeon III. About $77.00
Streamlight Poly Pro 4 AA Luxeon. This light has a deep and bigger reflector, the Luxeon is I, according to the manufacturer, is listed at 40 lumens, but to my eyes is doing about 75 lumens.
For the price of $40.00 this is a great light, and very battery friendly as it uses regulars AA.
I feed this light, rechargeable Nimhs AA of high current (Powerex 2700 mah) that hovers around 1.4 volts for weeks consequently it costs me nothing to operate it.
Mc Gizmo PR T head on Surefire body, Luxeon III, TWOJ bin,
My best Luxeon light putting out 120 to 130 lumens. This is a collector's item and was state of the art, less than two years ago.
I have found nothing new that can approach its power, except the new cree 7090 that is getting close.
Surefire Centurion II in black with the P-60 lamp (65 lumens for one hour)
Surefire Centurion II in Hard anodized with the P-61 lamp (120 lumens for 20 minutes)
Surefire Centurion III in hard anodized, with the P-91 lamp (200 lumens for 20 minutes) as you can see it is a great flood at 26 yards.
BEAR CUB running for 90 minutes on two computer Lithium Ion batteries, driving a Xenon Magnum Star bulb for 5 cells pretty hard at 8.4 volts at 220 lumens (which make it a very white light) with a reach of 120 to 150 yards, even surpassing the Ultra Stinger.
Best regards
Watchmaker
here is one more:
As the Surefire E2e is a very common light in the bow hunting and gun hunting scene and also for law enforcement, here it is.
The little MN03 lamp (60 lumens for 75 minutes) in the E2e is a big performer, I like myself this little light a lot, and I think it qualifies as a tactical light to be used at close to medium range if the need arose.
The MN02 lamp can be substituted for more run time, as it is 25 lumens for 2 1/2 hours, I actually prefer this lamp for hiking in the trails and other general chores, but I will use the 60 lumens lamp for blood trailing a deer or bear.
Red, blue and infrared filters are available from Surefire and vendors such as Cabela's. The red is used to walk in the trails or follow the cat-eye tacks when you go toward the stand in the pre-dawn darkness and don't want to pollute the woods with light, and the blue to bring up the blood drops in the leaves.
The E2e is 4 1/2 inches long and weighs at 3 .1 oz., is available in hard anodized type III and will not scratch easily, but it can be rough on your pocket liner. Other finishes are available sometimes. A tear drop bezel model is done in nickel plated and the wine light in regular anodized with a wine burgundy color.
Here is a picture of a few of the versions of the E2e.
And here is the beam shot at the same distance as the others above (26 yards) and the camera placed at the same distance (12 feet to the Deer head and 18 to the Bear head).
I can tell you that the light is fairly waterproof. I don't have a pool to try it at a few feet, but it survived quite well in my 3 ? gallon beer glass for several hours.
Kind regards,
Watchmaker
I like the little Scorpion a lot, to be honest; it is a powerful (at 6,500 candle powers) light (at 4.4 oz), not too long at 4.9 inches, and with a great feel in the hand thanks to the rubber boot that covers the body.
This rubber boot can be especially beneficial in the winter when others lights left in the trunk are too cold to hold without gloves.
The switch is momentary and click on, exactly as I want my switches; it is located in the back of the light and protected by the rubber boot.
The momentary works well. The click is in my case, though, is too difficult to operate with my big thumb and I have to click it with my index finger.
But rarely do I use the click, as this light can be used as a "tactical" light and the momentary mode is preferred when using it with a gun. (You don't want to drop the light "on" and that it will illuminate you or your partner, which is the reason to use the momentary).
The light uses two 123's batteries and run a xenon bulb for one hour. This xenon bulb is quite small (a spare is located in the bulb holder inside the head). I will hate to have to change it in less than normal conditions; for starters you have to pry a cover from the bulb holder to access the spare, you will have a few small parts in your hands, and you will need calm conditions and plenty of light to do the job properly.
For those situations I really prefer the big bulbs with reflector included of the Surefires' or even the smaller but easy to handle bulb of the E2e's.
Why I consider this so important? Well, the bulb is rated for 5 hours of life, which is extremely short.
I say I like this light, but it is really not rational because we have much better designs for a tactical light. The little Scorpion will roll out on a table that is not perfectly flat, for lack of an anti-roll bezel. Surefires are much better in this department.
The beam can be adjusted by rotating the head (the filament of the bulb will go lower or higher inside the reflector), in reality I have the light set to maximum throw that will not show any artifacts and I don't twist the head at all because the quality of the beam will be spoiled by artifacts and black spots.
This light is good for throw (considering the small reflector), and the quality of the beam, when set at near maximum throw, is good, producing a nice round circle due to the short filament.
The lens is polycarbonate. I would like to see it changed to Pyrex, but that is only my personal feeling that this light should deserve a better lens.
I bought mine two years ago from Cabela's and it cost me $38.00; I think that the price is right for a quality made American product.
The bulbs run about $6.00 each and I also consider them in price, they are so bright because they are overdriven (hence their short life of 5 hours).
I have seen a holster for the light made out of Cordura Nylon, but I haven't tried it and I don't know if is any issues in removing the light quickly, the rubber boot cause me trouble when removing the light from tight pockets (read Jean's) but is okay when the pocket is from s dress pants.
I also have seen filters made for this light in red, blue and yellow for those that would like to penetrate the deer's woods with a minimum of light pollution.
As always the beam shots are coming from 26 yards away and my camera tripod is in the same position, 12 feet from the deer and 18 from the bear.
I have also included as way of comparison the beam shot with the P-60 lamp out of a Surefire Centurion C-2 (read it also Surefire 6P, Z-2, G-2 D-2 etc).
SCORPION'S BEAM
P-60 LAMP FROM a Surefire Centurion II
You will notice that the beam of the Scorpion is more concentrated than the P-60 lamp, making the target clearer at this distance, for tactical situations at short range the P-60 lamp is better for the extra flood, it will be easier to clear a room with a Surefire without the need to pan the light to cover it all.
Cheers,
Watchmaker
WOW THAT'S A LOT OF READING[:o)]
Yup!
And with this being his first posts I am waiting for the sales pitch![;)][:D]
[}:)]
Allen
Guess my old 6 volt railroad lantern seems like i been using for last 50 years dont cut the mustard anymore!Thanks,Paul
A six volts is a modern one, check this Dietz Vesta from the New York Central Rail Road my grandaddy used.
Cheers
Watchmaker
I did this piece for a hunting forum, still you can see how those two lights could make a good tactical entry light.
The Surefire M-4 and the M-6 is what more SWAT and Special Forces use for entry.
TWO, BLOOD TRACKING LIGHTS
BEAR CUB 220 LUMENS AND SUREFIRE M-4, 225 LUMENS
Hi guys,
I am the official tracker for our little group of seven bow hunters. Because of the small patch of private woods that we have for hunting, and to preserve the unpolluted area, all tracking is done only after dark when the hunt is over.
Our rules are that no more than two persons will retrieve the deer; this is to keep the woods as free of human odor as possible, not to spoil our chances for the next morning hunt.
I have had a lot of experience with blood tracking lights, since my father first taught me how to do it with the old gas Coleman lantern.
One thing that the old timers had right was the need for intense WHITE light. As time change, there was not need anymore to go back to the truck for the old lantern; the new crop of intense white light pioneered by the tactical lights used for SWAT and Special Forces can do the job of making that blood trail as clear as during the day.
At this point, a word about the blue lights now in use for this task, and is that in many situations they are completely useless, as I learned when I tested one of them by following a wounded bear in the Maine woods in late August. The black drop of blood blended so well with the dark green vegetation of the Maine woods, that it was impossible to track it using that light.
BLUE LIGHT
WHITE LIGHT
I am a flashaholic, a disease that is kept in check only by buying and using lights, as I own more than two hundred of them; I am well aware what is good and for what purpose. That is why I am telling my readers that for blood tracking you need a very intense white light of not less than 200 lumens.
That figure rules out LED lights, not only they don't make the grade in lumens output, they are poor penetrators in fog and are poor distance throwers.
Enter high output incandescent lights with good throw.
Not many of them out there, Surefire for sure was the pioneer with the M-4 and the M-6 lights; the M-6 with the 350 lumens lamp can run for 60 minutes, but it uses six of the expensive 123's batteries, costing $12 per hour run. The M-4 with the 225 lumens lamp is what I have used for years with satisfaction, except for the cost of $8 per hour, as some tracking jobs sometimes took more than 60 minutes.
THE SUREFIRE M-4 AND THE RECHARGEABLE BEAR CUB
The M-4 is 9 inches long and quite light in weight, it have a stippled reflector that diffuses the light into a flood, which in my opinion is more flood than it is needed, I would like to see this light marketed with a smooth reflector for more useable throw, as sometimes the wounded deer circle back toward the open fields, and to spot one lying dead in the middle of the field more throw is needed.
For more about the Surefire M-4 ($330) contact Surefire.
BEAMSHOTS FROM 26 YARDS, CAMERA AT 12 FEET FROM DEER
BEAMSHOT OF THE SUREFIRE M-4
The rechargeable Bear Cub is made by Black Bear Flashlights; it uses two state of the art Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries for 90 minutes run time outputting 220 lumens. This light is made
using the "host" of a maglite 2 C, which means than after years of hard use when the light is scratched or dented, you can renew it just by buying a new "host" for about $14.00.
The light is also 9 inches long, it has a smooth reflector that concentrates the beam and shoots it a long way, no problem with this light in spotting a dead deer in the middle of the field. The light is sold with a Li Ion charger that will charge the batteries in 3 ? hours, so it is no problem to have it ready for the next morning, fully charged. These batteries last for 1,000 recharges so you have 1500 hours of use before needing another set of batteries. Before the M-4 can run for 1500 hours it will have spend $12,000 in batteries!
Extra lightweight Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries cost $30 per pair, so carrying an extra pair in a pocket will give you another 90 minutes of white intense tracking light.
When these lights are not used for tracking they make a formidable tactical light for home defense, with the capability of momentarily blinding an opponent.
The Bear Cub is available from the maker for $130 shipped, for more about this light contact Black Bear Flashlights.
BEAMSHOT OF THE BEAR CUB
Both of these lights will beat handily a 250,000 lumens spotlight; they are very convenient to carry in a pack or fanny-pack or even a large pocket. I use a red light to enter the woods without polluting them with light; I make a habit of always carrying my Bear Cub in my pack, ready for the most important chore of the hunting season, the retrieval of a wounded deer. I think that is our obligation to the game to make our best efforts to retrieve the deer we shoot, the use of the proper tool for tracking blood is imperative to aid in such efforts.
All the best
Watchmaker
I know, I have the same problem
He must be a reseller.
Doug
NOPE - Manufacturer or Manufacturer's rep, or a wholesale distributor.
Doug
12 VOLTS MODEL
180 LUMENS AND 90 MINUTES RUN TIME
This light uses four 123's and is 7 _ inches long. The claim of 180 lumen output and 90 minutes run time is what attracted me to buy one; besides, the price is only $50.00.
With the 123's at almost $2.00 each with shipping, running this light is not precisely inexpensive, but is much better than running a Surefire 9 P with the P-91 lamp for 20 minutes to get 200 lumens.
This light went into one of my rifles; that is why it is set up with a Leupold ring.
This light is almost a copy of the 9P, but longer at 7 _; the tail-cap differs in that the switch is not momentary. When you press in the XPG switch, you click it on, and to extinguish the light, you click it off.
This feature will remove this flashlight from the "tactical" field; it is very important for tactical use to have a momentary switch so you can strobe it, or so you can control the light the way you want. It is important just in case you drop your light, that you will not get illuminated by your own light.
The lamp of this light is very similar to the P-91 Surefire lamp. The reflector has the same finish and configuration, and at $18.00 for replacements it is not bad at all.
To find out how it compares with the beam of the 9P or Surefire C-3 with the P-91 lamp (200 lumens for 20 minutes on three 123's batteries), I tested the light at my usual 26 yards against the same bear-and-deer target that I used before for all the other lights, and from the same distance with the same settings.
As the reflector and head are so similar between the two torches, I was expecting very similar results in illumination, as the 20 lumens difference is not really so important to change the results in a big way.
So here are the pictures, and you can see for yourself how they compare.
CABELA'S XPG XENON 12 VOLTS (180 lumens for 90 minutes on four 123's batteries)
SUREFIRE CENTURION C-3 (With P-91 lamp for 200 lumens. 20 minutes run time)
BEAR CUB 220 lumens for 90 minutes, rechargeable.
Lumen output is not all that is important to have a light that will be useful at a certain distance. The diameter of the reflector has a big influence in how those lumens are going to be distributed.
For example, in the same league in lumen output is the rechargeable Bear Cub, (220 lumens for 90 minutes), but the deep 2" in diameter smooth reflector of the Bear Cub will throw the light much farther and with more intensity than the small reflectors of the Centurion C-3 or 9 P or the Cabela's XPG can.
Actually the XPG and the Centurion C-3 are very good (as you can see in the pictures) at the 26 yards distance, but at 45 to 50 yards they have reached the end of their useful illumination.
Cabela's have always offered good value for the money, this light is not the exception, for the price it is a more than excellent light and the long run time offset a little the expense of buying four 123's batteries to run it.
Best wishes
Watchmaker
TX 65, FLASHLIGHT
Here is another of the tactical lights running with two 123's batteries, it is made by Aimshot and is warrantee to be waterproof to a 100 meters.
It goes by the name of NOVA in some catalogues and by TX 65 in others. It is billed to be 6500 candlepower which I doubt very much it is that high.
The reflector is smooth on my unit, but is small in relation to others reflector such as the G-2-6P or even the Streamlight TL-2 or Night Fighter II, which make the beam much more flood than in the other lights.
NOVA XENON ILLUMINATOR
I recently tested it against my Streamlight Night Hunter II (another of the tactical two 123's batteries lights) and with new batteries in both lights the Nova was throwing a weaker beam against my usual deer target at 26 yards.
NOVA BEAMSHOT
STREAMLIGHT NIGHT HUNTER II BEAMSHOT
I have had this light for a couple of years, but I haven't use it much, the claim in some catalogue that the run time is five hours is greatly exaggerated, I don't think it will made one hour, although I have been disappointed by the performance of many new 123's batteries lately, they seem to come with little charge on them, especially the bargain batteries that are made in China for one of the web battery places.
I recommend that you run your tactical lights or flashlights with good quality batteries such as the Surefire or Duracell brands.
The light is well made, with double O rings in tail cap and head and a rubber cover in main body and tail cap, but with a metal anodized head.
I don't have a way to test the claims of been waterproof to 100 meters, but I dunked it in my big water glass for several hours, without getting any water inside.
The light sold for several years for $50 USD but I have seen it recently dropped to around $30 which is more in tone with other quality lights such as the Surefire G-2.
The tail cap is not a clicky, and that is a good thing, it is the usual turn it to "on" or press for momentary.
I like the light but I think that the Streamlight Night Hunter II or the TL II are better lights overall, I will even prefer a Scorpion or a G-2 in that price range.
Best regards
Watchmaker
Yup.
He must be a reseller.
Doug
NOPE - Manufacturer or Manufacturer's rep, or a wholesale distributor.
Doug
where can a person find a Borealis 1050 and what is the cost of them. Are they rechargeable? I have a 1/2 D cell Maglight rechargeable that I have had for 23 years. I have replaced the battery pack 4 times over that period, along with 2 bulbs, and one body tube. I use it hard, but I cannot be more pleased. What are your opinions on how the Borealis 1050 compares to it? Thanks
watchmaker,
where can a person find a Borealis 1050 and what is the cost of them. Are they rechargeable? I have a 1/2 D cell Maglight rechargeable that I have had for 23 years. I have replaced the battery pack 4 times over that period, along with 2 bulbs, and one body tube. I use it hard, but I cannot be more pleased. What are your opinions on how the Borealis 1050 compares to it? Thanks
They go for $320 shipped (charger included), if it sound high, just consider that to have half the lumens output with the Surefire M-6 (500 lumens) you have to spend $12 every 20 minutes (six 123's batteries) and the M-6 cost $400.
The BOREALIS will output 1050 lumens for 50 minutes, and will recharge in 90 minutes.
The batteries are good for 1,000 recharges according to the factory, that gives the Borealis a 833 hours of life on the batteries, before it needs another pack of $30.
Just think about it, the Surefire M-6 will have spent $29,988 in batteries in running 833 hours.
The maker is www. Black Bear Flashlights. com and he sells them trought the website
The Magcharger is a great light, but it never can be more than 200 lumens as it uses a sheet steel reflector mounted on plastic and a plastic bulb holder.
The weakness of the Magchager is in the 3 piece body tube (five pieces with the head and tail cap) the switch is one part and screw into the body, creating a weak spot. The Borealis uses the 3 D host which keep the switch inside the body and form a one piece tube, a much stronger arrangement.
In light output, there is no comparison, the Magchager is 200 lumens, 40,000 candlepowers while the Borealis is 1050 lumens, two million candlepowers.
Cheers
Watchmaker
RAYOVAC SPORTMAN XTREME
2AA 3 WATTS LUXEON FLASHLIGHT
I found this one at Wal-Mart and a fortunate find it was, the light is about the size of a Surefire L-4 or Surefire E2L, it even has a switch similar in operation to the Z-52 switch of the Surefire, press once for momentary, and twist the tail cap for permanent.
The package claims 80 lumens and it probably is, but of course, due to the small reflector and being a diode, the light is diffused and doesn't have good throw, but good enough to make it comparable with other Luxeon III's that I have seen at much higher prices.
Yes, the price was $25.00 and therefore makes this light a bargain, and another great feature is while others lights consume the expensive 123's, this one works with two AA batteries.
The body holds a nice clip that makes it unnecessary to carry the light in a holster. It even has a lanyard if you want to keep it with you when you open your hand to do any other task.
The run time is given at two hours, which is good and even better than others lights of this power can give even using 123 batteries.
If you need more runtime than this, you can buy the exact light in the 1 watt version with an output of 45 lumens and a runtime of five hours.
For a long time I have been using rechargeable Nimh AA batteries. I use them for all my power-hungry gadgets, GPS's, two-way radios, cameras, etc. The Nimhs provide me no-guilt runtime and, at the same time, helps the environment.
Beam shot at 26 yards, camera at 18 feet from the target. I moved the deer up front a little, so the background and the leaves from my cherry tree will not interfere with the picture. I should cut the overgrown bushes that are taking over the fence, but the weather hasn't cooperated lately for doing yard work.
Cheers,
Watchmaker
M-2 CENTURION
WITH 120 LUMENS LAMP
This is the "combat" version with the shock absorbing bezel; it uses two of the 123's batteries and comes with two lamps, the P-60 for 65 lumens and the P-61 for 120 lumens.
Run time is 60 minutes with the 65 lumens lamp and 20 minutes with the P-61 lamp.
This shock absorbing bezel is supposed to take the blast and the heavy recoil of big guns. I haven't try mine this way, but I have seen others in my group of shooters at the night range, using these lights and never hear a complaint about they performance.
In comparing it with my Centurion C-2 with the regular bezel and the P-61 lamp, I have noticed that the recessed shock absorbing head of the M-2 put out a more concentrated light.
This is because even than the reflector/lamps are the same, the reflector is more inside the light than in the Centurion II model.
Consequently it put out just a little bit less of a flood than the C-2.
This is at the 26 yards distance, camera 12 feet from the deer and 18 from the bear.
All the best
Watchmaker
JET-I (AA) MK IIX FLASHLIGHT
I had the opportunity to test briefly this flashlight a few days ago; since I just got to handle it for a few hours I will not call it a review, but just a little trial.
The light was actually passing by, my friend Luis from Spain had ordered a Borealis 1050 lumens and a Bear Cub 220 lumens flashlights, he also wanted one of Emilions' workbench JET-BEAM I MK IIX little lights that have multiple functions and are billed with a 100 lumens maximum power in the 1 AA version and with the extended tube for two AA batteries at 150 lumens.
So I had one ordered from Emilions and it arrived quite quickly, from Hong Kong to New York in just five days!
Physically, it is the size of my Fenix L1P light, (about 40 lumens) and it is very similar in shape and weight.(without the extension)
For those not familiar with these lights I have here a picture of them side by side.
By adding the extension for another AA, it is claimed that the maximum output is 150 lumens. Now that is a serious lumens output that we are taking about, so my main interest was to see if really the little light was going to reach that high.
Unfortunately I didn't have available any other comparable light, the closest that I had seem was my friend Fenix L2D that claims 135 lumens, but he was out of state, so the light was unavailable to me.
I have in my stable of lights, one PR T head (Pelican Reflector Turbo) that McGizmo made for me with a TWOJ Lumileds Luxeon III, which is a real screamer, going into the 130 lumens when pushed hard by two of the rechargeable 123's at 3.7 volts each.
This head is in an E2e body and is my favorite of the Luxeons lights I own.
The comparison to the little reflector of the Jet Beam will be unfair, as the Pelican reflector is much bigger in diameter and deeper, concentrating the light in a much tighter and intense beam.
The smaller reflector of the Jet Beam will tend to disperse the light beam in a more open pattern which will compromise the throw.
But here is a picture of the two lights side by side, so you can see how they look like, and how the Jet Beam is with the added 1 battery extension tube.
And here is a picture of the beam shot against the ceiling at a distance of 6 feet, the one on left is the Jet Beam I MK IIX
And after that, I took pictures of the beams shots at my customary 26 yards against the Deer and Bear heads.
If the picture of the beam shot of the Jet Beam doesn't look too impressive for the 150 lumens figure, keep in mind the terrible advantage in concentration of light that the Pelican reflector provides for my PR T 130 lumens light.
Beam shot with the Jet Beam 150 lumens (2 batteries, maximum power)
And here the beam shot with the McGizmo PR T head (130 lumens)
I can't close this account without telling my readers of the many features of the little Jet Beam light,
On the exterior the light is finished in hard anodized type III, the lens is Sapphire crystal and it comes with a set of extra switch covers, lanyard and a nice belt holster.
The circuit is 0.7V to 4.2V, after you click it on (Medium Brightness) soft touching the rubber switch will provide low brightness, maximum brightness and strobe, and one more touch will put the light in standby.
Waiting two seconds and clicking the light again will access the advanced mode with 10 levels of output, and five special functions including strobe SOS at 100 % and SOS at 5 % and others.
This seems to me, is the light to end all of the key chain lights and then some. As soon as my checkbook is recuperated from the ravages of uncle Sam, I am going to order one for myself.
I still think that for clearing a warehouse or a big yard, you need the longer distance reach of a good (in the 200 lumens bracket) incandescent light. When the factories start using the Cree 7090 with bigger reflectors, we will see the results, but I myself believe that the lack of the red spectrum in the Luxeons will always make them short distance lights and reduce the definition on the target; just look at the pictures that I have presented until now and see the performance of Luxeons even with the big reflectors of the Streamlight 4AA and the Task Light.
Kind regards
Watchmaker
Doug
Good Post.
Got Guns?
Since you know a lot about flashlights I have a question. Is there a filter that can be placed on a flashlight to filter out all visable light but let infared light thru?
Yes, they are called infrared filters, Surefire have them for their lights for about $90.
I have played around with them and my IR binos. I also have a pair of them for jeep lights (Army Surplus).
Watchmaker
200 LUMENS
ONE CR 123 A BATTERY
I bought this light from Deal Extreme for $23.24 shipped. I was very curious to try one of the Rebel 200 lumen new Luxeons and I think this is the best way to try one inexpensively.
The light has a click on, click off switch and five modes of intensities. The low mode is 30 lumens and is said to last for 24 hours. Another is 100 lumens for six hours, and the 200 lumens mode is three hours; then you have a strobe mode and an SOS mode.
I used a new Battery Station 123 and in the high 200 mode it lasted for ? an hour, and it gets hot very quick. I don't know if the poor run time is the fault of the battery that was under-charged, or if the light will perform the same with others 123's, but that is the results I got.
Due to the small head, the flood effect is quite pronounced and the throw is poor for a 200 lumen light, but I was expecting it to be that way based on experience with other small headed keychain-type lights.
Two hundred lumens in a two inch head of an incandescent will put a level of illumination that is tremendous in comparison to the small head of the Rebel 200 lumens. So we are in a time when we can no longer make an assessment based on the lumens figure, that is when the comparison pictures that I have been taken show the value, as the viewer can see for himself how the different lights with the same value in lumens output perform in real life.
If I consider the low price I like the little light in general, excepting the side switch that can be a little hard to find in a rush, as it is kind of recessed in the head of the light and difficult to find by feel alone. I will have preferred a tail switch such as I have in my Fenix L1D, but it is a tremendous price difference between the two lights, so all things considered I think that the Ultra fire is a great value, and I can put up with the side switch.
After trying to like the clip for a couple of weeks, I ended throwing it away, it is too flimsy and I will not trust it to keep the light in my pocket. The light is regular anodized, but had stood well the use in my pocket with keys and coins.
Here is my usual 26-yard beam shot against my deer head with the Ultra Fire 200 lumens
And here is a beam shot with the 220 lumens Bear Cub rechargeable that sport a two inch head and have a range of 150 yards.
All the best,
Watchmaker
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
I'm having nightmares now of flashlights chasing me into the woods where I see a deer mount stuck on a tree next to a no trespassing sign. Luckily Doug Wilson wakes me up before I'm impaled on the antlers with cries of "SPAM" and "free advertising."
Free advertising my butt, I have spent thousand of dollars in lights, TIME and dedication doing the beam shots.
Perhaps you will be happy if I stack a $50 ticket to each Borealis to pay for advertising that I don't need because I don't want to work overtime.
At 63 and retired, I need to enjoy the time that I have left for hunting, fly fishing, bird watching and chasing girls.
The Borealis is just another hobby and I have enough dough that I don't need to do it my live hood.
Watchmaker
Did you call my E2L OUTDOORSMAN a Weakling? [:(!] [:(!] [8D]
My E2e with a KL 1 head and a Z-57 click switch is not your E2L Outdoorsman.
And yes my light is a weakling, I may give away this year to one of my family members.
Cheers
Happy Holidays
Watchmaker
I'm having nightmares now of flashlights chasing me into the woods where I see a deer mount stuck on a tree next to a no trespassing sign. Luckily Doug Wilson wakes me up before I'm impaled on the antlers with cries of "SPAM" and "free advertising."
Dude, You realy just made me laugh. I have been reading this post for what seems like an hour. I have to agree with you and I hope I dont start having those same nightmares. At first I was impressed but after a while I started feeling DEPRESSED like I was stuck in flashlight school. Dont get me wrong, I appreciate a good flashlight as much as the next guy. But this is way more information than I'll EVER need.
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
I'm having nightmares now of flashlights chasing me into the woods where I see a deer mount stuck on a tree next to a no trespassing sign. Luckily Doug Wilson wakes me up before I'm impaled on the antlers with cries of "SPAM" and "free advertising."
Free advertising my butt, I have spent thousand of dollars in lights, TIME and dedication doing the beam shots.
Perhaps you will be happy if I stack a $50 ticket to each Borealis to pay for advertising that I don't need because I don't want to work overtime.
At 63 and retired, I need to enjoy the time that I have left for hunting, fly fishing, bird watching and chasing girls.
The Borealis is just another hobby and I have enough dough that I don't need to do it my live hood.
Watchmaker
WATCHMAKER with all due respect This general forum I think is kinda like a chat room whare people ask questions or give there oppinion on different things or they might comment on a post or to reply to someone elses oppinion. Personally I think everybody is intitled to their own oppinion. It is apparent that you have GREAT knowlege in this subject and if I were ever to have any questions about flashlights or anything pertaining to this subject, you would be the man I would contact. But come on You have to admit your post really does look like a sales brochure. But thats my oppinion and who the heck am I? I cant even spell good!