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In NYS we can not accept a handgun into the state unless from an FFL. We will accept long guns from out of state as long as they are accompanied with a proper ID .. I am interested in the question being asked also .. Who do we log the gun in from in our Acquisition books if there is no no identification accompanying the long gun ?
quote:When I did have an FFL, I found the return address label to be an excellent source of information.
OK, if that worked for you, but if I were to rely on the return address label, I would have a half-dozen gun entries in my bound books, showing that I received the gun from "Pack & Postal," or "Mailbox Plus," or "The UPS Store," or just a ZIP code.
quote:Originally posted by nunn
quote:When I did have an FFL, I found the return address label to be an excellent source of information.
OK, if that worked for you, but if I were to rely on the return address label, I would have a half-dozen gun entries in my bound books, showing that I received the gun from "Pack & Postal," or "Mailbox Plus," or "The UPS Store," or just a ZIP code.
And that won't cut it.
Things sure have changed. I never received a gun from a shipping store. BTW, point taken, Nunn.[:I]
quote:Originally posted by MFI
In NYS we can not accept a handgun into the state unless from an FFL. We will accept long guns from out of state as long as they are accompanied with a proper ID .. I am interested in the question being asked also .. Who do we log the gun in from in our Acquisition books if there is no no identification accompanying the long gun ?
OK Show me the law. I want a link and the text of the law. I have a GunBroker.com hoodie in your size that says you can't do it. (and besides, once again Article I Section 8 Clause 3 of the Constitution very clearly defines the regulation of interstate commerce to be the purview of the Federal Government NOT the States. The states cannot require something that the Federal Law does not call for.
and as for ID, the Buyer can supply you with the Sellers information for your A/D log.
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
and as for ID, the Buyer can supply you with the Sellers information for your A/D log.
That would be a good solution, I would think
I am working on it Captain.. I know the FFL MUST HAVE A LICENSE to deal handguns in NYS to be able to accept it first of all. If they do not it is illegal for them to accept it or obviously deal in handguns period. Not all FFL's here have NYS licenses to deal in handguns. Ive read several instances on NYS forums where the ATF told the people inquiring about this that Federal law says its ok to accept a handgun from out of state people but NYS law prohibited it.. I may have to get back to you because I dont have my resources here and my NYS law book.. I am going to call Albany on Monday and talk to the pistol folks to see what they say.
quote:Originally posted by MFI
I am working on it Captain.. I know the FFL MUST HAVE A LICENSE to deal handguns in NYS to be able to accept it first of all. If they do not it is illegal for them to accept it or obviously deal in handguns period. Not all FFL's here have NYS licenses to deal in handguns. Ive read several instances on NYS forums where the ATF told the people inquiring about this that Federal law says its ok to accept a handgun from out of state people but NYS law prohibited it.. I may have to get back to you because I dont have my resources here and my NYS law book.. I am going to call Albany on Monday and talk to the pistol folks to see what they say.
Totally separate issue. Since Handguns are regulated in the State once it gets to the FFL, they have to determine if the buyer is allowed to own the item. And asking the ATF is just like asking the IRS a question, unless you address your question to the ATF Legal office here in Atlanta the answer is not admissible in court and will not indemnify you of anything. What Agent Bob tells you is more than likely wrong and will not stand up in court. I had this same discussion with the Director a few weeks ago and will be talking with their Chief Counsel next week. They need to do a better job educating their agents.
Does this mean I don't get the hoodie?[;)] I actually have one I wear prominently in the shop but it is worn out..I tell all my customers to come here if I cant get the items they want,, I still make money on the transfer !
Feel free to read the entire thing. No one has been able to point out any jurisdiction so far requiring that.
But again, much like the weed laws, Federal law trumps state and local every single time.
The good stuff starts on page 11 [:D]
Good info, but no I'm not going to read that whole 556 page thing this morning.
If any FFL ever tells me I have to have a sale or purchase shipped by an FFL, I'll check the state laws on the other end. Then show the FFL's and if they won't play ball, they kill the deal.
I'm way too much of cheap penny pinching old fart to tolerate padding the bill with made-up requirements. The real legal requirements are made up enough as it is!
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
and as for ID, the Buyer can supply you with the Sellers information for your A/D log.
That would be a good solution, I would think
that might work in some situations
what if citizen A walks in your store wanting to sell a firearm and refuses to show you his ID., but says my name is joe citizen, my address is such and such . are you going to believe him and enter that name?
I certainly will not. show me your photo ID. or there is the door
quote:Originally posted by jwb267
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
and as for ID, the Buyer can supply you with the Sellers information for your A/D log.
That would be a good solution, I would think
that might work in some situations
what if citizen A walks in your store wanting to sell a firearm and refuses to show you his ID., but says my name is joe citizen, my address is such and such . are you going to believe him and enter that name?
I certainly will not. show me your photo ID. or there is the door
quote:Originally posted by jwb267
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
and as for ID, the Buyer can supply you with the Sellers information for your A/D log.
That would be a good solution, I would think
that might work in some situations
what if citizen A walks in your store wanting to sell a firearm and refuses to show you his ID., but says my name is joe citizen, my address is such and such . are you going to believe him and enter that name?
I certainly will not. show me your photo ID. or there is the door
Ageeed, that will work best in a face to face, but what good is a photo ID over the internet?
quote:Originally posted by nunn
quote:When I did have an FFL, I found the return address label to be an excellent source of information.
OK, if that worked for you, but if I were to rely on the return address label, I would have a half-dozen gun entries in my bound books, showing that I received the gun from "Pack & Postal," or "Mailbox Plus," or "The UPS Store," or just a ZIP code.
And that won't cut it.
David, I have kept an accurate log of few C&Rs I have purchased. I have sent payments mostly via MO and sometimes credit cards.
I have received items more than once from GB sellers w/o anything in the box other than a gun. I know the FFL record sheet the ATF wants you to keep in your log book wants you to record where/whom you made the purchase from. What I have done is print out and save the sellers info data for my log.
I know there are dealers other than you who go thru audits. I am not sure the ATFs reaction would be of any blank spaces.
Comments
OK, if that worked for you, but if I were to rely on the return address label, I would have a half-dozen gun entries in my bound books, showing that I received the gun from "Pack & Postal," or "Mailbox Plus," or "The UPS Store," or just a ZIP code.
And that won't cut it.
quote:When I did have an FFL, I found the return address label to be an excellent source of information.
OK, if that worked for you, but if I were to rely on the return address label, I would have a half-dozen gun entries in my bound books, showing that I received the gun from "Pack & Postal," or "Mailbox Plus," or "The UPS Store," or just a ZIP code.
And that won't cut it.
Things sure have changed. I never received a gun from a shipping store. BTW, point taken, Nunn.[:I]
In NYS we can not accept a handgun into the state unless from an FFL. We will accept long guns from out of state as long as they are accompanied with a proper ID .. I am interested in the question being asked also .. Who do we log the gun in from in our Acquisition books if there is no no identification accompanying the long gun ?
OK Show me the law. I want a link and the text of the law. I have a GunBroker.com hoodie in your size that says you can't do it. (and besides, once again Article I Section 8 Clause 3 of the Constitution very clearly defines the regulation of interstate commerce to be the purview of the Federal Government NOT the States. The states cannot require something that the Federal Law does not call for.
and as for ID, the Buyer can supply you with the Sellers information for your A/D log.
and as for ID, the Buyer can supply you with the Sellers information for your A/D log.
That would be a good solution, I would think
I am working on it Captain.. I know the FFL MUST HAVE A LICENSE to deal handguns in NYS to be able to accept it first of all. If they do not it is illegal for them to accept it or obviously deal in handguns period. Not all FFL's here have NYS licenses to deal in handguns. Ive read several instances on NYS forums where the ATF told the people inquiring about this that Federal law says its ok to accept a handgun from out of state people but NYS law prohibited it.. I may have to get back to you because I dont have my resources here and my NYS law book.. I am going to call Albany on Monday and talk to the pistol folks to see what they say.
Totally separate issue. Since Handguns are regulated in the State once it gets to the FFL, they have to determine if the buyer is allowed to own the item. And asking the ATF is just like asking the IRS a question, unless you address your question to the ATF Legal office here in Atlanta the answer is not admissible in court and will not indemnify you of anything. What Agent Bob tells you is more than likely wrong and will not stand up in court. I had this same discussion with the Director a few weeks ago and will be talking with their Chief Counsel next week. They need to do a better job educating their agents.
quote:Originally posted by chiefr
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
Okay so here's a question -
Are there any States or localities that have laws requiring only FFL to FFL shipments of guns?
So far I've not run into such a scenario. But being in Arizona, my end of the deal is a pretty easy one, and generally low cost.
Your mileage on this should not vary, but as this is an imperfect world, it's likely to be plenty screwed over for somebody or another.
I too would like to know
The answer is No.
Here is the most recent version of the ATF compilation of State and local laws.
http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5-31st-editiion/2010-2011-atf-book-final.pdf
Feel free to read the entire thing. No one has been able to point out any jurisdiction so far requiring that.
But again, much like the weed laws, Federal law trumps state and local every single time.
The good stuff starts on page 11 [:D]
Good info, but no I'm not going to read that whole 556 page thing this morning.
If any FFL ever tells me I have to have a sale or purchase shipped by an FFL, I'll check the state laws on the other end. Then show the FFL's and if they won't play ball, they kill the deal.
I'm way too much of cheap penny pinching old fart to tolerate padding the bill with made-up requirements. The real legal requirements are made up enough as it is!
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
and as for ID, the Buyer can supply you with the Sellers information for your A/D log.
That would be a good solution, I would think
that might work in some situations
what if citizen A walks in your store wanting to sell a firearm and refuses to show you his ID., but says my name is joe citizen, my address is such and such . are you going to believe him and enter that name?
I certainly will not. show me your photo ID. or there is the door
quote:Originally posted by jwb267
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
and as for ID, the Buyer can supply you with the Sellers information for your A/D log.
That would be a good solution, I would think
that might work in some situations
what if citizen A walks in your store wanting to sell a firearm and refuses to show you his ID., but says my name is joe citizen, my address is such and such . are you going to believe him and enter that name?
I certainly will not. show me your photo ID. or there is the door
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
and as for ID, the Buyer can supply you with the Sellers information for your A/D log.
That would be a good solution, I would think
that might work in some situations
what if citizen A walks in your store wanting to sell a firearm and refuses to show you his ID., but says my name is joe citizen, my address is such and such . are you going to believe him and enter that name?
I certainly will not. show me your photo ID. or there is the door
Ageeed, that will work best in a face to face, but what good is a photo ID over the internet?
quote:When I did have an FFL, I found the return address label to be an excellent source of information.
OK, if that worked for you, but if I were to rely on the return address label, I would have a half-dozen gun entries in my bound books, showing that I received the gun from "Pack & Postal," or "Mailbox Plus," or "The UPS Store," or just a ZIP code.
And that won't cut it.
David, I have kept an accurate log of few C&Rs I have purchased. I have sent payments mostly via MO and sometimes credit cards.
I have received items more than once from GB sellers w/o anything in the box other than a gun. I know the FFL record sheet the ATF wants you to keep in your log book wants you to record where/whom you made the purchase from. What I have done is print out and save the sellers info data for my log.
I know there are dealers other than you who go thru audits. I am not sure the ATFs reaction would be of any blank spaces.