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union question
46270
Member Posts: 12,627
I have a question for all you pro union
when dodge closed their plants and moved
everything south to mexico, did you blame
your unions at all, I know the companies
that moved out of the usa did so for their
bottom dollar, but did the unions hurt or
help you, I mean you dont have a job anymore.
when the unions kept asking for more and more
benefits, concessions.
I understand wanting to get as much benefits
as you can, but at the risk of losing your
job.
when dodge closed their plants and moved
everything south to mexico, did you blame
your unions at all, I know the companies
that moved out of the usa did so for their
bottom dollar, but did the unions hurt or
help you, I mean you dont have a job anymore.
when the unions kept asking for more and more
benefits, concessions.
I understand wanting to get as much benefits
as you can, but at the risk of losing your
job.
Comments
can they see that excessive demands on companies
leads them to move overseas. I blame the car companies
for thinking of there shareholders more than the workers.
but because dodge moved south of the border, I wont buy one
even thou I would love to have a new challenger.
I would rather give US familes money than mexico.
I buy usa products when I can, if I cant find the item
I want from the usa, then I will look to those made outside
the usa
Advanced Member
4364 Posts
Posted - 02/27/2011 : 01:30:33 AM
I just wanted to know those in unions
can they see that excessive demands on companies
leads them to move overseas. I blame the car companies
for thinking of there shareholders more than the workers.
but because dodge moved south of the border, I wont buy one
even thou I would love to have a new challenger.
I would rather give US familes money than mexico.
I buy usa products when I can, if I cant find the item
I want from the usa, then I will look to those made outside
the usa
I don't see where its just unionized companies moving over seas. CEO's and top brass continue to make millions and it again is the working man that helped put them in that position, yet again it's our fault once again that companies move over seas.
leaving the states.
how do you feel about dodge, union, and the part that the union
played in dodge moving to mexico
I just wanted to know those in unions
can they see that excessive demands on companies
leads them to move overseas. I blame the car companies
for thinking of there shareholders more than the workers.
but because dodge moved south of the border, I wont buy one
even thou I would love to have a new challenger.
I would rather give US familes money than mexico.
I buy usa products when I can, if I cant find the item
I want from the usa, then I will look to those made outside
the usa
Not to speak for all union members but if the company is thinking of going overseas, they will go anyway. I think a lot of the time the union is the excuse. I know of two local businesses that were making money, yet they went overseas anyway. In this case yes I would rather loose my job than give in, because even if concessions are given, they will move sooner or later. Taxes and the EPA are to blame just as much or more than the unions, as most companies have no regulations in china or korea.[xx(]
A better question would be, how many jobs have went overseas or out of country.
Of those, what were the percentage of union jobs?
You want to blame unions for all jobs going out of country, but fact is most of the jobs that left were not union jobs anyway.
move out of country.The cost of meeting the demands
of the EPA, and OSHA regs are huge savings to these
companys. Down here in FL. (a right to work state)
you cannot be forced to join a union, and any bennifit
provided by the union must also be provided to the
employee that does not wish to join the union, and
pull his own weight( The boats still moving, let the
other guys paddle ). What I fail to understand, is how
people can hate organized labor so much, and know so
little about it. Companys bargin for everything they
buy, Trucks, Materials, Fuel, Equipment, and yes even
labor.
It's a very simple to understand system. With higher
numbers, comes more barganing power.
Do you think Wal-Mart can sell a box of shotgun shells
cheaper than your local gun shop just because your buddy
at the gun shop wants to get more of your money ?
No, it's because Wal-Mart agrees to buy everything they make this quarter if they will accept their price. The same princeble
goes with farm co-ops, or anyone else that uses membership
numbers to bargin for a better price. ( buying or selling)
When the system gets screwed up is when the goverment gets
overly involved. When the unions strentgh comes from the
soladarity of its members, it is at its strongest.
but like everything else man does, it's subject to coruption.
and then the polititions start to get involved, and down hill it goes.
The company I work for is in no way forced to deal with
the union. We do not hold a gun to their head when they sign the
contract, and at the renewal of each contract they have the
option of replacing us with an unorganized work force if they chose.
One advantage we do have is that in a material supply
bussiness, you must be in the service area, unlike manufacturing
jobs that can be moved to where they are less, or not at all
regulated.
Enough rambling for now, but think about it, when you buy
a case of ammo is that unfair to the guy that can only aford
one box and is forced to pay a higher price?
The more you controll the market, the more you can set the price.
even to the point of pricing yourself out of the market if not
careful.
People say you can't fire a union person but think again the company can if they do it right and have proof. The United States Labor Dept says you will defend any Union member or they will sue you. Many benefit you enjoy came from union contracts and if you think a company will pay you those benefits because they like you. We have good unions and bad union just like every business or jobs.
If a company treats their employees right then they don't need unions and if they treat you bad then unions form.
I just wanted to know those in unions
can they see that excessive demands on companies
leads them to move overseas. I blame the car companies
for thinking of there shareholders more than the workers.
but because dodge moved south of the border, I wont buy one
even thou I would love to have a new challenger.
I would rather give US familes money than mexico.
I buy usa products when I can, if I cant find the item
I want from the usa, then I will look to those made outside
the usa
Labor cost in my Union to produce the product amounts to 4% of the overall costs. While the CEO takes multi million dollar bonuses, extremly top heavy on managers, and a 74 percent waste. I Can't really figure out where the money is going.
l say there are 2 classes of worker. Those that are UNION. Those that want to be[^]
no I am not happy, the auto worker union had alot to do with dodge
leaving the states.
how do you feel about dodge, union, and the part that the union
played in dodge moving to mexico
I couldn't give a damn what happens to Dodge. They make crap and always have. All you people who are mad at GM for taking the gov't bailout, well Dodge took it twice. Remember when Raegan bailed them out in '80 or '81? Should have let them go tits then.
BTW 46270, that shiny blue Chevy pu you have posted pictures of.... where was it made?
Unions can destroy a companies flexibility. If GM shuts down a plant, they have to pay the workers 95% of wages. Unions can stop a company from promoting a qualified worker and force them to promote one with more seniority, thus causing the co. to lose highly skilled employees. Some, like me, simply hate unions because they are the communist wing of the Democratic party.
About a year went by and the union refused to budge, the final request was a plea from the CEO of the company. The request was simple. The company was asking each employee to contribute $100.00 a month to help offset the cost of health insurance. He made it clear that unless some concessions were made the plant was going to be forced to close. The company could not afford to keep it open any longer.
The union refused, the plant was closed about six months later.
-on the local evening news-
The Union Boss said it was a win for the union! No crap, there were hundreds of jobs lost FOREVER but he said "we did not back down, so I consider this a victory for us". All of his Union workers were unemployed but in his twisted mind, he won.
Yea, unions are great!
The union shop I worked at the wages were paid by the by product of the lumber mill operations. Chips. All the lumber money went into the business and owner profits.
You are going by the old streotype of how union use to operate. some unions have changed with the times. Years ago, when I started my appenticeship, we were taught that the "business of America was business" and that business was making money. We were told that if we werent productive and make the company money, we wouldnt have a job. If were werent productive, noone would want us, the company or the union. We were also taught that noone wins a strike. There are also ways of getting rid of lazy non-productive POS written into the contract. These rules are written down, open and fair, and have been used. Not to long ago we had a pos on our crew that called off sick constantly, showed up drunk, and wasnt doing his job. The company used the process in the contract to get rid of him. First he was written up and offered help, which he refused. The second time he was given unpaid time off. The third time he was taken before the board and fired (good ridance too). We were taught also by the union that the days of hostility between managment and union were ovwer, cooperation was now the new normal. We havent had a strike in over 30 years, so it works! The only pension I have is one I pay for thru the union, and the company has no ties to it. I get a generous match on my 401k from the company, and no after retirement health care. When I retire I will no ties to the company. They will have no legacy costs from me. Not all unions are like mine, but a lot are.
I have been successful at both non-union and union jobs, but I prefer a union shop because it takes care of the problems that non-union shops have like favoriteism and brown noseing. We have a fair system the decides who works overtime in a union shop. Never had that in non-union. Are unions for everyone? No. But if you dont like unions dont join one! This is how unions have changed, and will contine to change with the times. The old sterotype about the union "boss" is also wrong. We vote for our leaders, and anyone can run of union office. We can see the books anytime we want, to see were they are spending our dues money. Its all out in the open. Nom one tells me how to vote in government elections either, they just provide a list of canidates with there stands on the issues and encourage us to vote, but dont tell us who to vote for. We have a great job and we know it. We work hard to make sure the company makes money, and not just so we can get a bigger bonus (which helps!) but so we know we'll have that we get to keep that job!
By the way, Im the junior man on my crew, just so you know.
Daddy said there are 2 Classes of men. Those that are Rich, those that want to be.
l say there are 2 classes of worker. Those that are UNION. Those that want to be[^]
You left out the 3rd .
That class is people like me that have worked Union work and left on purpose .
I had more respect for my work product .
and moving to mexico,china or wherever to increase their bottom line
deplete the jobs available here to the point that the goods made elsewhere can no longer be afforded by people here because we have no jobs.
The feds are happy as pigs in slop that NEW claims for unemployment claims are down somewhat. What they fail to talk about is the number
of people that have used up their unemployment benefits and are
in a sort of "no man's land" and are no longer being counted.If you
add them to the number of unemployed the feds.acknowledge, the number jumps to 15% or more unemployed.
The ceo's of these companies leaving out shores are thinking that at some point,this country is a lost cause and they must plan accordingly and look elsewhere to sell their goods and services.
I'm not going to start bashing the unions, the epa or any of the things that we all know have added to the decision for industry to leave our shores.It just don't friggin matter anymore because, they are gone and no way they are coming back... Why would they.
Flowing water takes the path of least resistance and American industry has decided that if it's good enough for nature, it's good enough for them.They pulled up stakes and moved elsewhere.
So many people run around pointing their finger at this one or that one trying to place blame. When all is said and done, we have no one to blame but ourselves for letting this happen.
I've heard it said there are three kinds of people on this earth.
People that make things happen..
People that watch things happen and do nothing.
People that stand around and wonder WTH happened .
Sadly, I think most fall into the the third category.
Did the unions have a hand in all this, I say yes but, they had a lot of help from a lot of others but mostly, we did it to ourselves
because it's simply easier to take the path of least resistance in life and let others do our thinking and decision making for us.
Sadly our society has become a mamby-pamby milk toast society that thinks of themselves and screw everybody else.Many are content to let
the government take care of them from the womb to the tomb and never
had an original thought in their life.
The more I type, the more pissed I become so, I'm going to stop my rambling because really and truly,no one seems to give a chit anymore.
True Story. There was a metal stamping plant in S. Charleston WV making stampings for Benz....
The union refused, the plant was closed about six months later.
-on the local evening news-
The Union Boss said it was a win for the union! No crap, there were hundreds of jobs lost FOREVER but he said "we did not back down, so I consider this a victory for us". All of his Union workers were unemployed but in his twisted mind, he won.
Yea, unions are great!
And in 2007
BMW comes along buys invested in the place and....
Charleston Stamping BMW will invest more than $35 million to refurbish the plant with new automation equipment, Wise said. That figure includes a $15 million loan approved today by the West Virginia Economic Development Authority. The modernization is expected to allow the company to create 79 jobs in its first year, 140 jobs in its second year, and as many as 550 jobs in its fourth or fifth year.
"The prospect of 550 good-paying manufacturing jobs is tremendous news anywhere in the country today," Manchin said. "This new enterprise was inspired by the business vision and the sincere regard John Wise and Ray Park have for this state."
And just who got the good paying jobs.....
Temp workers
quote:Originally posted by bpost
True Story. There was a metal stamping plant in S. Charleston WV making stampings for Benz....
The union refused, the plant was closed about six months later.
-on the local evening news-
The Union Boss said it was a win for the union! No crap, there were hundreds of jobs lost FOREVER but he said "we did not back down, so I consider this a victory for us". All of his Union workers were unemployed but in his twisted mind, he won.
Yea, unions are great!
And in 2007
BMW comes along buys invested in the place and....
Charleston Stamping BMW will invest more than $35 million to refurbish the plant with new automation equipment, Wise said. That figure includes a $15 million loan approved today by the West Virginia Economic Development Authority. The modernization is expected to allow the company to create 79 jobs in its first year, 140 jobs in its second year, and as many as 550 jobs in its fourth or fifth year.
"The prospect of 550 good-paying manufacturing jobs is tremendous news anywhere in the country today," Manchin said. "This new enterprise was inspired by the business vision and the sincere regard John Wise and Ray Park have for this state."
And just who got the good paying jobs.....
Temp workers
Sorry your information is slightly incorrect, it was Park Industries with WV, and the plant is still looking for a buyer, the economy heading to the crapper hurt its chances real bad. It is sad so many jobs were lost over a hundred bucks a month......
There is a big difference between Union and non-Union labor. All non union labor is not temporary, unless designated so by contract. The plant was slated to open NON-UNION by design and on purpose.
This would be disturbing news to the workers at Dodge City in Warren Michigan, SHAP in Sterling Hts, Jefferson Assembly in Detroit and the Toledo Jeep plant if it wasn't total BS.
YIPPEE!!!!!!
[xx(]
Merc
quote:Originally posted by bpost
True Story. There was a metal stamping plant in S. Charleston WV making stampings for Benz. The company asked the union to help lower costs, was generally willing to work with the union to keep the plant open and try to make profit. They were not making money at that time or were hit or miss in the black every month.
About a year went by and the union refused to budge, the final request was a plea from the CEO of the company. The request was simple. The company was asking each employee to contribute $100.00 a month to help offset the cost of health insurance. He made it clear that unless some concessions were made the plant was going to be forced to close. The company could not afford to keep it open any longer.
The union refused, the plant was closed about six months later.
-on the local evening news-
The Union Boss said it was a win for the union! No crap, there were hundreds of jobs lost FOREVER but he said "we did not back down, so I consider this a victory for us". All of his Union workers were unemployed but in his twisted mind, he won.
Yea, unions are great!
And yet...the CEO STILL got his multi-million dollar bonus that year!
YIPPEE!!!!!!
[xx(]
Merc
quote:Originally posted by bpost
True Story. There was a metal stamping plant in S. Charleston WV making stampings for Benz. The company asked the union to help lower costs, was generally willing to work with the union to keep the plant open and try to make profit. They were not making money at that time or were hit or miss in the black every month.
About a year went by and the union refused to budge, the final request was a plea from the CEO of the company. The request was simple. The company was asking each employee to contribute $100.00 a month to help offset the cost of health insurance. He made it clear that unless some concessions were made the plant was going to be forced to close. The company could not afford to keep it open any longer.
The union refused, the plant was closed about six months later.
-on the local evening news-
The Union Boss said it was a win for the union! No crap, there were hundreds of jobs lost FOREVER but he said "we did not back down, so I consider this a victory for us". All of his Union workers were unemployed but in his twisted mind, he won.
Yea, unions are great!
And why should't he? You want a million dollar bonus, start your owm company and make it successful. The OWNERS own the co. Not the unions. Not the employees. I know the communist unions think they own the company, but actuallt, they don't. Thankfully. Communism doesn't make the poor people rich, it only makes everybody poor.
quote:Originally posted by footlong
Daddy said there are 2 Classes of men. Those that are Rich, those that want to be.
l say there are 2 classes of worker. Those that are UNION. Those that want to be[^]
You left out the 3rd .
That class is people like me that have worked Union work and left on purpose .
I had more respect for my work product .
Glad to see I am not alone Roger![;)]
And yet...the CEO STILL got his multi-million dollar bonus that year!
YIPPEE!!!!!!
[xx(]
Merc
Honestly, what does that have to do, assuming it is even close to being correct, with a Union forcing the closure of a business over 100 bucks a month and having the Local Union Chapter President say it was a victory while his workers were filling out unemployment applications?
Daddy said there are 2 Classes of men. Those that are Rich, those that want to be.
l say there are 2 classes of worker. Those that are UNION. Those that want to be[^]
I can't imagine there are many non union folks that want to be in a union right about now. Unions are facing a massive back lash in this country.
quote:Originally posted by footlong
Daddy said there are 2 Classes of men. Those that are Rich, those that want to be.
l say there are 2 classes of worker. Those that are UNION. Those that want to be[^]
I can't imagine there are many non union folks that want to be in a union right about now. Unions are facing a massive back lash in this country.
Well, it's always nice to have a scapegoat.
Daddy said there are 2 Classes of men. Those that are Rich, those that want to be.
l say there are 2 classes of worker. Those that are UNION. Those that want to be[^]
There are 2 classes of workers: Those who can take care of themselves, and those who are too weak to take care of themselves and join unions.
quote:Originally posted by Mercury
And yet...the CEO STILL got his multi-million dollar bonus that year!
YIPPEE!!!!!!
[xx(]
Merc
quote:Originally posted by bpost
True Story. There was a metal stamping plant in S. Charleston WV making stampings for Benz. The company asked the union to help lower costs, was generally willing to work with the union to keep the plant open and try to make profit. They were not making money at that time or were hit or miss in the black every month.
About a year went by and the union refused to budge, the final request was a plea from the CEO of the company. The request was simple. The company was asking each employee to contribute $100.00 a month to help offset the cost of health insurance. He made it clear that unless some concessions were made the plant was going to be forced to close. The company could not afford to keep it open any longer.
The union refused, the plant was closed about six months later.
-on the local evening news-
The Union Boss said it was a win for the union! No crap, there were hundreds of jobs lost FOREVER but he said "we did not back down, so I consider this a victory for us". All of his Union workers were unemployed but in his twisted mind, he won.
Yea, unions are great!
And why should't he? You want a million dollar bonus, start your owm company and make it successful. The OWNERS own the co. Not the unions. Not the employees. I know the communist unions think they own the company, but actuallt, they don't. Thankfully. Communism doesn't make the poor people rich, it only makes everybody poor.
The CEO's dont own the company either, the stockholders do!!
Why is it that Big corporations fought tooth and nail when a bill was intoduced in congress to allow stockholders (aka the owners) to have a say in CEO pay??? Could it be that the CEO's are the real crooks who are destroying companys? Pretty funny how these same CEO's are always saying the unions are greedy, until you see what they make!! Then its not so funny, its sickening!!
quote:Originally posted by RtWngExtrmst
quote:Originally posted by Mercury
And yet...the CEO STILL got his multi-million dollar bonus that year!
YIPPEE!!!!!!
[xx(]
Merc
quote:Originally posted by bpost
True Story. There was a metal stamping plant in S. Charleston WV making stampings for Benz. The company asked the union to help lower costs, was generally willing to work with the union to keep the plant open and try to make profit. They were not making money at that time or were hit or miss in the black every month.
About a year went by and the union refused to budge, the final request was a plea from the CEO of the company. The request was simple. The company was asking each employee to contribute $100.00 a month to help offset the cost of health insurance. He made it clear that unless some concessions were made the plant was going to be forced to close. The company could not afford to keep it open any longer.
The union refused, the plant was closed about six months later.
-on the local evening news-
The Union Boss said it was a win for the union! No crap, there were hundreds of jobs lost FOREVER but he said "we did not back down, so I consider this a victory for us". All of his Union workers were unemployed but in his twisted mind, he won.
Yea, unions are great!
And why should't he? You want a million dollar bonus, start your owm company and make it successful. The OWNERS own the co. Not the unions. Not the employees. I know the communist unions think they own the company, but actuallt, they don't. Thankfully. Communism doesn't make the poor people rich, it only makes everybody poor.
The CEO's dont own the company either, the stockholders do!!
Why is it that Big corporations fought tooth and nail when a bill was intoduced in congress to allow stockholders (aka the owners) to have a say in CEO pay??? Could it be that the CEO's are the real crooks who are destroying companys? Pretty funny how these same CEO's are always saying the unions are greedy, until you see what they make!! Then its not so funny, its sickening!!
It only sickens you because you're not a CEO. Why aren't you?
quote:Originally posted by the middle
quote:Originally posted by RtWngExtrmst
quote:Originally posted by Mercury
And yet...the CEO STILL got his multi-million dollar bonus that year!
YIPPEE!!!!!!
[xx(]
Merc
quote:Originally posted by bpost
True Story. There was a metal stamping plant in S. Charleston WV making stampings for Benz. The company asked the union to help lower costs, was generally willing to work with the union to keep the plant open and try to make profit. They were not making money at that time or were hit or miss in the black every month.
About a year went by and the union refused to budge, the final request was a plea from the CEO of the company. The request was simple. The company was asking each employee to contribute $100.00 a month to help offset the cost of health insurance. He made it clear that unless some concessions were made the plant was going to be forced to close. The company could not afford to keep it open any longer.
The union refused, the plant was closed about six months later.
-on the local evening news-
The Union Boss said it was a win for the union! No crap, there were hundreds of jobs lost FOREVER but he said "we did not back down, so I consider this a victory for us". All of his Union workers were unemployed but in his twisted mind, he won.
Yea, unions are great!
And why should't he? You want a million dollar bonus, start your owm company and make it successful. The OWNERS own the co. Not the unions. Not the employees. I know the communist unions think they own the company, but actuallt, they don't. Thankfully. Communism doesn't make the poor people rich, it only makes everybody poor.
The CEO's dont own the company either, the stockholders do!!
Why is it that Big corporations fought tooth and nail when a bill was intoduced in congress to allow stockholders (aka the owners) to have a say in CEO pay??? Could it be that the CEO's are the real crooks who are destroying companys? Pretty funny how these same CEO's are always saying the unions are greedy, until you see what they make!! Then its not so funny, its sickening!!
It only sickens you because you're not a CEO. Why aren't you?
because Im not a greedy thief who blames others for being what I am.
Plus I like working for a living, and makeing money for my company, not screwing stockholders, workers, and taxpayers!
quote:Originally posted by 46270
I have a question for all you pro union
when dodge closed their plants and moved
everything south to mexico, did you blame
your unions at all, I know the companies
that moved out of the usa did so for their
bottom dollar, but did the unions hurt or
help you, I mean you dont have a job anymore.
when the unions kept asking for more and more
benefits, concessions.
I understand wanting to get as much benefits
as you can, but at the risk of losing your
job.
the unions tell their non-thinking members to blame the company leadership.... that is all they can do, and too many buy it
Blame the company leadership for what????
My company is doing great, I have no complaints about how they are running it. As a stockholder of this compnay I also have no complints, the ceo isnt some greedy overpaid slob, and runs the company for the long term. He doesnt have the "how much can I get TODAY screw tommorow, I want it TODAY" kind of outlook. Ive met him numerous times, hes a good man, and down to earth, not some arrognat a-hole.