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Mayor Bloombergs going undercover in Arizona
pogybate
Member Posts: 3,150
Anti- gun NY Mayor Bloomberg is sending his detectives to Arizona to check for illegal sales.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/us/31guns.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha23
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/us/31guns.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha23
Comments
They need to stay in their own bedbug infested hellhole and leave the rest of us alone.
The citizens of that city are largely responsible for the speculative trading that drives up oil and now food prices not to mention their role in the mortgage fiasco.
slavery?
build my temple?
Criminals will always look for other lawbreakers to sell them guns or they will steal guns.
What outrages me the most is the distraction this sort of stunt creates from the real issue that contributed to the Tucson shootings. We lack laws and systems to identify and control the dangerously mentally ill. Nothing is mandatory, no referrals or reports or actions of any kind are required to be taken. Even if they were there are few places to send these people and only short term holds to be placed on them.
The political left will crow about protecting the rights of the mentally challenged and disadvantaged. They are not alone, for the political right will crow about the cost savings to taxpayers.
So nothing gets done, crimes happen, people get hurt or killed and the anti-gun culture gets to crow about its particular fantasy with each new opportunity.
Anti- gun NY Mayor Bloomberg is sending his detectives to Arizona to check for illegal sales.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/us/31guns.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha23
You can email this Marc Lacey guy about it:
http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/l/marc_lacey/index.html?inline=nyt-per
Just look to the bottom of his bio and you will see where you can click to email him. I just did.
Bloomberg's little stunts prove the argument against gun control. His investigators pretended to be criminals and they were able to buy guns even though it is illegal to sell to them. The lack of paperwork and background checks are not the only issues here, if you sell someone a gun knowing they are not allowed to have one you become complicit in their crimes. You committed a crime yourself, be you and FFL licensed dealer or just somebody selling off his unwanted guns.
Criminals will always look for other lawbreakers to sell them guns or they will steal guns.
What outrages me the most is the distraction this sort of stunt creates from the real issue that contributed to the Tucson shootings. We lack laws and systems to identify and control the dangerously mentally ill. Nothing is mandatory, no referrals or reports or actions of any kind are required to be taken. Even if they were there are few places to send these people and only short term holds to be placed on them.
The political left will crow about protecting the rights of the mentally challenged and disadvantaged. They are not alone, for the political right will crow about the cost savings to taxpayers.
So nothing gets done, crimes happen, people get hurt or killed and the anti-gun culture gets to crow about its particular fantasy with each new opportunity.
You have 2 people in your crowded shop, 2 guys shopping, 1 buys a gun, how exactly do you know it is not a straw purchase? the is what bloomers boys do, Or do you think NICS should also be run on all a purchasers family and friends? And in the Tuscon case, there was no records to disallow a sale, and even if he as not allowed a firearm, my bet is he could have done more damage with a POS SUV....
bloomer should be charged with conspiracy, as he is the one ordering the illegal purchase to be made, just as any citizen who orders a crime committed would be.
Don
...
You have 2 people in your crowded shop, 2 guys shopping, 1 buys a gun, how exactly do you know it is not a straw purchase? the is what bloomers boys do, Or do you think NICS should also be run on all a purchasers family and friends? And in the Tuscon case, there was no records to disallow a sale, and even if he as not allowed a firearm, my bet is he could have done more damage with a POS SUV....
bloomer should be charged with conspiracy, as he is the one ordering the illegal purchase to be made, just as any citizen who orders a crime committed would be.
Don
Hold on, I think we probably agree here.
Read the story again. The buyers said they would not pass a check. That means they are some how prohibited. You don't need to be a licensed dealer to knowingly aid a felon in the commission of a crime. You could be Joe Taxpayer, and if someone tells you they are not allowed to own a firearm but you sell it to them anyway, you helped them break the law.
If they do not tell you, then you are a victim of their crime not a participant in it.
It's back to the same old silliness. We write laws to react to crime and the things that criminals do. But they are written for honest people, who obey them and wouldn't commit crimes anyway.
The criminals continue to act as they always do, finding accomplices along the way.
For the record here folks, I have been told by a potential buyer that he'd never pass a background check. I was carrying a rifle at a gun show that I was looking for parts for, but he asked me about buying it. I considered it, we'd not reached a price, he asked if I was there as a dealer and mentioned that background check thing and I just looked him in the eye and said "No sale man, not about to mess with that".
They did that here in VA (doing illegal purchases) BATF has told them to knock it off. VA Atty Genl has told them do it again, you will see inside of a VA prison- you are breaking the law.
BLOOMTURD sent them to some shows here in Ohio also.
He can't clean up NYC, why does he think he can anywhere else [xx(]
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to state something as fact which didn't happen.
Do a search in General Discussion, "Search for: Bloomberg", "Search by Member: JamesRK" and learn a little history of Bloomberg in Virginia.
I believe Mayor Bloomberg and the people he conspired with broke Arizona law and violated the Lacey act also.
[?]
Anti- gun NY Mayor Bloomberg is sending his detectives to Arizona to check for illegal sales.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/us/31guns.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha23
He would find far more in NY.
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
if they are operating with a forged ID, there has to be SOMETHING they can be thrown in jail for...at least I hope so [;)]
how would the little buzzards purchase a gun in GA or AZ with a NY driver's license?
if they are operating with a forged ID, there has to be SOMETHING they can be thrown in jail for...at least I hope so [;)]
I'm guessing that they're not showing their license. But they are purchasing a firearm out of state without going through an FFL in their state, so they ARE breaking the law.
Accusing the sellers of illegal action is subjective. All they have to say is "I thought the guy was just joking around about the background check." (That is of course if the conversation reported ever even took place.)
how would the little buzzards purchase a gun in GA or AZ with a NY driver's license?
if they are operating with a forged ID, there has to be SOMETHING they can be thrown in jail for...at least I hope so [;)]
The way they worked it in Virginia was they hired one male and one female "private detective". Both were residents of Virginia with valid Virginia ID. I think they posed as husband and wife, but I may not be right about that. They went into a gun shop and told the salesman they were shopping for a pistol for the woman.
The woman went to another area of the store a looked around. The man stayed at the counter and inspected pistols and asked questions. After he decided which was the best buy he called the woman to the counter. She presented her Identification, filled out the paperwork, went through the background check and paid for the pistol.
They called that a straw purchase.
Mark Cole of Cole's Gun Shop could have beaten Bloomberg legally, but he said he couldn't afford the legal expenses and didn't need the hassle. He locked the doors so now my closest gun shop is fifty miles away, which was Bloomberg's goal to begin with.
Bloomberg pulled a similar scam on a FFL in Georgia who could afford the legal expense and was willing to go through the hassle. He did beat Bloomberg in court.
Bloomberg is not interested in enforcing the law in Virginia, Georgia, Arizona or any other place. He is willing to spend every cent the New York City tax payer has to close gun shops. I think he would even go into his own deep pockets if necessary.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
quote:Originally posted by KSUmarksman
how would the little buzzards purchase a gun in GA or AZ with a NY driver's license?
if they are operating with a forged ID, there has to be SOMETHING they can be thrown in jail for...at least I hope so [;)]
The way they worked it in Virginia was they hired one male and one female "private detective". Both were residents of Virginia with valid Virginia ID. I think they posed as husband and wife, but I may not be right about that. They went into a gun shop and told the salesman they were shopping for a pistol for the woman.
The woman went to another area of the store a looked around. The man stayed at the counter and inspected pistols and asked questions. After he decided which was the best buy he called the woman to the counter. She presented her Identification, filled out the paperwork, went through the background check and paid for the pistol.
They called that a straw purchase.
Mark Cole of Cole's Gun Shop could have beaten Bloomberg legally, but he said he couldn't afford the legal expenses and didn't need the hassle. He locked the doors so now my closest gun shop is fifty miles away, which was Bloomberg's goal to begin with.
Bloomberg pulled a similar scam on a FFL in Georgia who could afford the legal expense and was willing to go through the hassle. He did beat Bloomberg in court.
Bloomberg is not interested in enforcing the law in Virginia, Georgia, Arizona or any other place. He is willing to spend every cent the New York City tax payer has to close gun shops. I think he would even go into his own deep pockets if necessary.
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
They did that here in VA (doing illegal purchases) BATF has told them to knock it off. VA Atty Genl has told them do it again, you will see inside of a VA prison- you are breaking the law.
They successfully ruined some Gun Shops and their owners finances in the process. So as far as Bloomberg is concerned he won.
how would the little buzzards purchase a gun in GA or AZ with a NY driver's license?
if they are operating with a forged ID, there has to be SOMETHING they can be thrown in jail for...at least I hope so [;)]
supposedly the buyer told the "dealer" at the Gun Show in AZ that he wasn't allowed to buy a gun, but the "dealer" didn't care...hmmmm IF it even happened, I wonder if it was a private individual at the Gun Show that sold the gun, but they are calling him a "dealer" to hype it up.
Videos of Bloomberg's narcs buying guns in Arizona.
ChrisInTempe, if you are going to join the conversation you should know what you are talking about first.
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to state something as fact which didn't happen.
Do a search in General Discussion, "Search for: Bloomberg", "Search by Member: JamesRK" and learn a little history of Bloomberg in Virginia.
Having fun insulting folks are you?
I am very familiar with Bloomberg's antics in Virginia and on his campaign for gun control generally. His stunts there were pretty bad and I imagine most here know the details as well.
But this thread begins with his stunt in Arizona.
Again, his activities do not prove his point, they disprove it. His supposed detectives made statements to the seller indicating they were very likely prohibited from owning firearms. While Arizona law does not specifically forbid such a sale, it has always been unlawful under Arizona and Federal law to knowingly assist in the commission of any crime.
No background check is required to assist in comitting a crime. If the seller has a reasonable suspicion, which the buyer clearly gave him, that the sale is to a person prohibited from buying a firearm then that seller could be charged in the crime.
No, this is not an argument in favor of doing that, nor of background checks. The point is that criminals always seek ways around laws and will look for nay accomplice or fool they can latch on to assist them.
Bloomberg is wrong to claim that these sales were lawfully made, they were not. Displaying once again that laws written to control what criminals do rarely have any effect upon criminals until they are caught, prosecuted and convicted AFTER THE CRIME.
All these laws do is restrict the activities of honest people. People whom society sees no benefit from restricting.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/hear-no-evil-suspect-no-evil-at-an-arizona-gun-show/?ref=nyregion
Videos of Bloomberg's narcs buying guns in Arizona.
how more obvious can a guy get???
Can one call security and/or the police to have such jokers ejected from the show?
I don't think I could hold back and would tell the guy "listen, I suggest you leave NOW before I inform all of these rednecks Agrarian-Americans here that you are likely an agent of NYC or some other liberal gun hater group" [:D]
seller wanted to make the sale too badly...
quote:
Originally posted by chollagardens
I believe Mayor Bloomberg and the people he conspired with broke Arizona law and violated the Lacey act also.
[?]
the Lacey Act was primarily made to stop illegal take of game animals in one state and marketing them in another state where it is legal. This law has been stretched to include using state lines to comit illegal acts and use different state laws to evade the law. If the Lacey act is not correct then there are other laws that shoud be appropiate to prosecute Mayor Bloomberg.
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/hear-no-evil-suspect-no-evil-at-an-arizona-gun-show/?ref=nyregion
Videos of Bloomberg's narcs buying guns in Arizona.
how more obvious can a guy get???
Can one call security and/or the police to have such jokers ejected from the show?
I don't think I could hold back and would tell the guy "listen, I suggest you leave NOW before I inform all of these rednecks Agrarian-Americans here that you are likely an agent of NYC or some other liberal gun hater group" [:D]
seller wanted to make the sale too badly...
that right there brings up an excellent point. Methinks the WHOLE thing was staged, not just the buyer. Besides, if you ask me, the buyer sounded like he was joking... Not being serious.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
It isn't the first videos to be faked to push a agenda. NBC rigged the Audi, 60 min rigged the jeep rollover tapes. The Chevy and pinto gas tank videos were rigged too.
http://www.car-forums.com/s10/t2240.html
i was at a show where a man was trying to buy a rifle from a non dealer and said he was in trouble with the law that was only a misdomer as a young man, the seller told him to take a hike, i watched the man try to buy off of several others,untill one went to the promoter of the show and complained. the man was ejected from the show. i still wonder if he was a plant. eastbank.
I wonder too, why would you even volunteer that information if you're trying to buy a gun.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
quote:Originally posted by eastbank
i was at a show where a man was trying to buy a rifle from a non dealer and said he was in trouble with the law that was only a misdomer as a young man, the seller told him to take a hike, i watched the man try to buy off of several others,untill one went to the promoter of the show and complained. the man was ejected from the show. i still wonder if he was a plant. eastbank.
I wonder too, why would you even volunteer that information if you're trying to buy a gun.
exactly...I would think that someone concerned about passing a background check would either say nothing or if they are trying to find out if the person is a dealer, they could say something like "I don't want to leave a paper trail in case they try to confiscate guns in the future"
Last I checked paranoia and/or legitimate concern about the government doing evil things is perfectly legal. So the question would not be suspect by the seller
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?