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Bloomberg is in the middle of his third term as Mayor of NYC, even though before he got there it was a 2 term limit....money can buy anything. He should mind his own business, he has enough to worry about in the city. [}:)]
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
I think he hired locals to do the purchase, if I'm not mistaken.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
I think he hired locals to do the purchase, if I'm not mistaken.
I thought that too. So I went back and read it.
"In two instances, the New York undercover officers specifically said before buying a gun, "I probably couldn't pass a background check," but were still sold guns, city officials said."
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
I think he hired locals to do the purchase, if I'm not mistaken.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
I think he hired locals to do the purchase, if I'm not mistaken.
I thought that too. So I went back and read it.
"In two instances, the New York undercover officers specifically said before buying a gun, "I probably couldn't pass a background check," but were still sold guns, city officials said."
The use of the term "officers" is most likely misused in this instance.
I'm still curious if this was the sellers first time at this show. Until proven otherwise it would also be easy to plant a sellar for desired outcome. I still think something doesn't smell right as you can't find any information on the sellar
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
I thought that too. So I went back and read it.
"In two instances, the New York undercover officers specifically said before buying a gun, "I probably couldn't pass a background check," but were still sold guns, city officials said."
Bloomberg's usual modus oporandi is to hire locals, so I suspect that is misleading or incorrect reporting.
I hope your interpretation is right, because if it is some crimes were committed that could give Arizona reason to shut Bloomberg down.
When somebody brings this to Marc Lacey's attention, I think he'll say he "misspoke".
quote:Originally posted by savage170
I'm still curious if this was the sellers first time at this show. Until proven otherwise it would also be easy to plant a sellar for desired outcome. I still think something doesn't smell right as you can't find any information on the sellar
I can think of a couple of reasons he might be laying low. One is he might not want to explain to the BATFE why he has so many guns for sale and isn't an FFL.
The other is he could be a plant. That would explain why he has so many guns. Dramatic effect for the video.
It could stand looking into.
On an unrelated not: My wife saw your signature line last night and got a good chuckle out of it. She said it was the first time she had seen a dog carrying a gun. [:D]
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
I think he hired locals to do the purchase, if I'm not mistaken.
I thought that too. So I went back and read it.
"In two instances, the New York undercover officers specifically said before buying a gun, "I probably couldn't pass a background check," but were still sold guns, city officials said."
The use of the term "officers" is most likely misused in this instance.
That's speculation though. According to his own report, his "New York undercover officers" broke the law. Unless law enforcement are exempt from the restriction of buying face to face out of state. I honestly don't know about that though.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
Like I said, you don't understand this business very well...and it shows. I think you should get an FFL and learn a thing or two.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
Like I said, you don't understand this business very well...and it shows. I think you should get an FFL and learn a thing or two.
I was kinda hoping you had something better than this....
Don
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.
Bloomberg needs to have a Coke and a smile and shut the f##k up! [}:)]
It's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger. I won't. ~ J.B. Books
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
Like I said, you don't understand this business very well...and it shows. I think you should get an FFL and learn a thing or two.
I was kinda hoping you had something better than this....
Don
He's still trying to come up with something. That's his MO. If he doesn't have an answer then it's, "It should be obvious, and if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you."
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
Like I said, you don't understand this business very well...and it shows. I think you should get an FFL and learn a thing or two.
I was kinda hoping you had something better than this....
Don
When someone proves to be this ignorant, I quickly lose interest in discussing matters with them. If he doesn't get it by now, he's not going to get it period.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
Like I said, you don't understand this business very well...and it shows. I think you should get an FFL and learn a thing or two.
I was kinda hoping you had something better than this....
Don
When someone proves to be this ignorant, I quickly lose interest in discussing matters with them. If he doesn't get it by now, he's not going to get it period.
See my previous post. There is nothing to get as you have not given an answer. You say that you lose interest, yet you come back to SAY that you've lost interest and then repeat yourself. You'll probably just say to look at your previous posts and lock the thread.
Don't worry. We understand that you don't sell to California in protest and that's fine. But trying to claim that it is for some other reason like the CA DOJ will try to shut you down just makes you look foolish.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
Like I said, you don't understand this business very well...and it shows. I think you should get an FFL and learn a thing or two.
I was kinda hoping you had something better than this....
Don
When someone proves to be this ignorant, I quickly lose interest in discussing matters with them. If he doesn't get it by now, he's not going to get it period.
See my previous post. There is nothing to get as you have not given an answer. You say that you lose interest, yet you come back to SAY that you've lost interest and then repeat yourself. You'll probably just say to look at your previous posts and lock the thread.
Don't worry. We understand that you don't sell to California in protest and that's fine. But trying to claim that it is for some other reason like the CA DOJ will try to shut you down just makes you look foolish.
Have you ever bothered to even read one of my auctions? I'm quite clear as to the MANY reasons I refuse to sell to Kalifornians. Wake up and smell the coffee dude...it's right in front of you.
Have you ever bothered to even read one of my auctions? I'm quite clear as to the MANY reasons I refuse to sell to Kalifornians. Wake up and smell the coffee dude...it's right in front of you.
I suppose that you're talking about this:
Due to the vast number of Anti-Second Amendment Laws in California, we no longer sell to CA residents. It's time for CA residents to stand up and demand their RIGHTS back. As of July, 1st 2008, the CA DOJ requires dealers and wholesalers to jump through a number of hoops to send firearms into their state. We will not participate in this Un-Constitutional regulation. I truly hope the gun owners of CA will stand up and take their state back.until that time, NO SALES TO CA RESIDENTS.
Let's separate it. The first part:
"Due to the vast number of Anti-Second Amendment Laws in California, we no longer sell to CA residents. It's time for CA residents to stand up and demand their RIGHTS back."
This, I understand. You do it to protest the Anti-Second Amendment laws. That's fine. I won't go into the fact that the ENTIRE country has Anti-Second amendment laws, vast numbers of them even, yet you still sell to the rest of the country. I also don't see you doing anything to "stand up and demand your RIGHTS back" on a federal level that the California gun owners aren't doing on a state level.
The second part:
"As of July, 1st 2008, the CA DOJ requires dealers and wholesalers to jump through a number of hoops to send firearms into their state. We will not participate in this Un-Constitutional regulation."
You won't participate in THIS "Un-Constitutional regulation" but you will participate in all of the others? i.e. background checks, no full auto, etc.
Regardless, what you state in your auctions is that it is in protest. I've asked you MULTIPLE times what you think that the CA DOJ is actually going to DO to you. You keep responding that it's obvious, yet you never say. Then you say that it is "clearly stated" in your auctions but in fact, it appears to only be in protest.
So I'll ask it in a more simple way.
Do you refuse to register with the CA DOJ to protest? (That's #1) Or do you refuse to register with the CA DOJ because you are worried that they will do something to harm your business? (That's #2)
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
Have you ever bothered to even read one of my auctions? I'm quite clear as to the MANY reasons I refuse to sell to Kalifornians. Wake up and smell the coffee dude...it's right in front of you.
I suppose that you're talking about this:
Due to the vast number of Anti-Second Amendment Laws in California, we no longer sell to CA residents. It's time for CA residents to stand up and demand their RIGHTS back. As of July, 1st 2008, the CA DOJ requires dealers and wholesalers to jump through a number of hoops to send firearms into their state. We will not participate in this Un-Constitutional regulation. I truly hope the gun owners of CA will stand up and take their state back.until that time, NO SALES TO CA RESIDENTS.
Let's separate it. The first part:
"Due to the vast number of Anti-Second Amendment Laws in California, we no longer sell to CA residents. It's time for CA residents to stand up and demand their RIGHTS back."
This, I understand. You do it to protest the Anti-Second Amendment laws. That's fine. I won't go into the fact that the ENTIRE country has Anti-Second amendment laws, vast numbers of them even, yet you still sell to the rest of the country. I also don't see you doing anything to "stand up and demand your RIGHTS back" on a federal level that the California gun owners aren't doing on a state level.
The second part:
"As of July, 1st 2008, the CA DOJ requires dealers and wholesalers to jump through a number of hoops to send firearms into their state. We will not participate in this Un-Constitutional regulation."
You won't participate in THIS "Un-Constitutional regulation" but you will participate in all of the others? i.e. background checks, no full auto, etc.
Regardless, what you state in your auctions is that it is in protest. I've asked you MULTIPLE times what you think that the CA DOJ is actually going to DO to you. You keep responding that it's obvious, yet you never say. Then you say that it is "clearly stated" in your auctions but in fact, it appears to only be in protest.
So I'll ask it in a more simple way.
Do you refuse to register with the CA DOJ to protest? (That's #1) Or do you refuse to register with the CA DOJ because you are worried that they will do something to harm your business? (That's #2)
Just indicate your answer by number.
Both...as stated 1001 times...quite clearly, mind you.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
Have you ever bothered to even read one of my auctions? I'm quite clear as to the MANY reasons I refuse to sell to Kalifornians. Wake up and smell the coffee dude...it's right in front of you.
I suppose that you're talking about this:
Due to the vast number of Anti-Second Amendment Laws in California, we no longer sell to CA residents. It's time for CA residents to stand up and demand their RIGHTS back. As of July, 1st 2008, the CA DOJ requires dealers and wholesalers to jump through a number of hoops to send firearms into their state. We will not participate in this Un-Constitutional regulation. I truly hope the gun owners of CA will stand up and take their state back.until that time, NO SALES TO CA RESIDENTS.
Let's separate it. The first part:
"Due to the vast number of Anti-Second Amendment Laws in California, we no longer sell to CA residents. It's time for CA residents to stand up and demand their RIGHTS back."
This, I understand. You do it to protest the Anti-Second Amendment laws. That's fine. I won't go into the fact that the ENTIRE country has Anti-Second amendment laws, vast numbers of them even, yet you still sell to the rest of the country. I also don't see you doing anything to "stand up and demand your RIGHTS back" on a federal level that the California gun owners aren't doing on a state level.
The second part:
"As of July, 1st 2008, the CA DOJ requires dealers and wholesalers to jump through a number of hoops to send firearms into their state. We will not participate in this Un-Constitutional regulation."
You won't participate in THIS "Un-Constitutional regulation" but you will participate in all of the others? i.e. background checks, no full auto, etc.
Regardless, what you state in your auctions is that it is in protest. I've asked you MULTIPLE times what you think that the CA DOJ is actually going to DO to you. You keep responding that it's obvious, yet you never say. Then you say that it is "clearly stated" in your auctions but in fact, it appears to only be in protest.
So I'll ask it in a more simple way.
Do you refuse to register with the CA DOJ to protest? (That's #1) Or do you refuse to register with the CA DOJ because you are worried that they will do something to harm your business? (That's #2)
Just indicate your answer by number.
Both...as stated 1001 times...quite clearly, mind you.
I've never read a single post where you specify WHAT you believe that the CA DOJ could/would do to you. It's not in your little auction blurb. It's not in this thread. Mind pointing to just ONE of the "1001 times" please?
Comments
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/hear-no-evil-suspect-no-evil-at-an-arizona-gun-show/?ref=nyregion
Videos of Bloomberg's narcs buying guns in Arizona.
wow that sucks
I usually "up the price" on my "collectible" guns if they wear their hat sideways, sound drunk, look high, or got prison tats.
"I gotsta gets mine" right?
[}:)][:D][xx(]
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
I think he hired locals to do the purchase, if I'm not mistaken.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
I think he hired locals to do the purchase, if I'm not mistaken.
I thought that too. So I went back and read it.
"In two instances, the New York undercover officers specifically said before buying a gun, "I probably couldn't pass a background check," but were still sold guns, city officials said."
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
Wrong...there's always exceptions to the rule.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
I think he hired locals to do the purchase, if I'm not mistaken.
That's my understanding as well.
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
I think he hired locals to do the purchase, if I'm not mistaken.
I thought that too. So I went back and read it.
"In two instances, the New York undercover officers specifically said before buying a gun, "I probably couldn't pass a background check," but were still sold guns, city officials said."
The use of the term "officers" is most likely misused in this instance.
I thought that too. So I went back and read it.
"In two instances, the New York undercover officers specifically said before buying a gun, "I probably couldn't pass a background check," but were still sold guns, city officials said."
Bloomberg's usual modus oporandi is to hire locals, so I suspect that is misleading or incorrect reporting.
I hope your interpretation is right, because if it is some crimes were committed that could give Arizona reason to shut Bloomberg down.
When somebody brings this to Marc Lacey's attention, I think he'll say he "misspoke".
Of course those videos will not be shown.
I'm still curious if this was the sellers first time at this show. Until proven otherwise it would also be easy to plant a sellar for desired outcome. I still think something doesn't smell right as you can't find any information on the sellar
I can think of a couple of reasons he might be laying low. One is he might not want to explain to the BATFE why he has so many guns for sale and isn't an FFL.
The other is he could be a plant. That would explain why he has so many guns. Dramatic effect for the video.
It could stand looking into.
On an unrelated not: My wife saw your signature line last night and got a good chuckle out of it. She said it was the first time she had seen a dog carrying a gun. [:D]
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
Wrong...there's always exceptions to the rule.
Well? What is the exception?
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by Mr Perfect
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
And any way you cut it, bloomer is illegally involved in these purchases by paying for the private dicks to do it, even if the dicks passed the NICS, the transaction is illegal, and he conspired to violate federal statutes...
Don
It's a bit of a stretch, but an argument could be made that Bloomberg was involved in a straw purchase since the stool pigeon wannabe made the purchase on Bloomberg's order, but in reality the United States Attorney nor the BATFE would touch it. Other than that, I can't find where any law was broken.
Some of us seem to think the stool pigeon wannabe said "I couldn't pass a background check", but if you watch the video or read the transcript in the article, what he said was "That's good, because I probably couldn't pass one, you know what I mean?"
The only thing "you know what I mean?" means to me is the stool pigeon wannabe has poor speech habits.
Marc Lacey references 18 U.S.C. ?922 (d) as the law which was violated, but if he had taken the extra step of reading 18 U.S.C ?922 (d) he would have found it is only a violation if the seller KNOWS OR HAS REASON TO KNOW the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm.
It looks to me like the only thing Bloomberg gets out of this one is more cow cookies to spread on the internet and MSNBC.
spot on as usual James. I don't see where any law was broken except possibly an illegal straw purchase.
And just because some guy is at a table with guns sitting on it doesn't mean he isn't part of the whole scam. They've proved nothing and yet again our MSM has done nothing to vet it. They're as complicit in all this as Bloomberg IMO.
New York residents buying a gun in Arizona? You can't buy a gun from another state unless you go through a dealer in your state.
I think he hired locals to do the purchase, if I'm not mistaken.
I thought that too. So I went back and read it.
"In two instances, the New York undercover officers specifically said before buying a gun, "I probably couldn't pass a background check," but were still sold guns, city officials said."
The use of the term "officers" is most likely misused in this instance.
That's speculation though. According to his own report, his "New York undercover officers" broke the law. Unless law enforcement are exempt from the restriction of buying face to face out of state. I honestly don't know about that though.
Anti- gun NY Mayor Bloomberg is sending his detectives to Arizona to check for illegal sales.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
Like I said, you don't understand this business very well...and it shows. I think you should get an FFL and learn a thing or two.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
Like I said, you don't understand this business very well...and it shows. I think you should get an FFL and learn a thing or two.
I was kinda hoping you had something better than this....
Don
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
Like I said, you don't understand this business very well...and it shows. I think you should get an FFL and learn a thing or two.
I was kinda hoping you had something better than this....
Don
He's still trying to come up with something. That's his MO. If he doesn't have an answer then it's, "It should be obvious, and if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you."
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
Like I said, you don't understand this business very well...and it shows. I think you should get an FFL and learn a thing or two.
I was kinda hoping you had something better than this....
Don
When someone proves to be this ignorant, I quickly lose interest in discussing matters with them. If he doesn't get it by now, he's not going to get it period.
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
Like I said, you don't understand this business very well...and it shows. I think you should get an FFL and learn a thing or two.
I was kinda hoping you had something better than this....
Don
When someone proves to be this ignorant, I quickly lose interest in discussing matters with them. If he doesn't get it by now, he's not going to get it period.
See my previous post. There is nothing to get as you have not given an answer. You say that you lose interest, yet you come back to SAY that you've lost interest and then repeat yourself. You'll probably just say to look at your previous posts and lock the thread.
Don't worry. We understand that you don't sell to California in protest and that's fine. But trying to claim that it is for some other reason like the CA DOJ will try to shut you down just makes you look foolish.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them. [xx(]
You're a dealer. You have to do a background check on all guns you sell. So what could they possibly do to you? You either sell in your state and do so according to federal and state guidelines or you ship to an out of state FFL according to federal guidelines. Seriously, what can the CA DOJ to you that you can't do to yourself?
You really don't have a clue about what all is involved in this business...if only it were that simple.
You are correct in that I have never been an FFL. However, CA DOJ does not have any jurisdiction OUTSIDE of California. You are outside of California (and I seem to recall that you have no plans to ever enter California again). Therefore, the ONLY thing that CA DOJ can do to you, is tell you that you are not on their approved list of FFLs. They can call the BATF on you, but what are they going to say? "He followed all the rules, we just don't like him." If you keep your ducks in a row, you have nothing to be afraid of. The only thing that it would take for you to ship to CA is a few minutes of filling out some paperwork and getting an approval number. CA DOJ can't come and inspect your books. They can't come and do a "sting operation" to get you in trouble (which technically, BATF could already try); they can't do ANYTHING to you other than say that you are not approved to ship to CA.
Seriously, what are you afraid that they would do?
You've completely missed the point of this entire thread, haven't you...
No, I already understood the point of the thread and discussed it. What I don't understand is your post.
"...Oh...and Innocent little CA's DOJ would never resort to tactics like this with all the dealers that voluntarily registered their businesses with them."
You act like you're afraid of them, and if you register to sell to California, they're going to get you, but what could they honestly do to you if you follow all of the rules anyway? Or do you not follow the rules so you're worried that they'll catch you? I'm guessing that isn't the case as you don't want to lose your FFL.
Or are you just going to avoid answering the question?
Do you honestly think what NY is doing cannot/will not happen with CA's DOJ.?.? ...b/c if you do, I a bridge I'd like to sell you. SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION?
You still miss the point. If YOU are following all the federal guidelines in accordance with your FFL, what could they get on? The only thing that they can do is to say that you are not authorized to ship to California. They can not come to Idaho to prosecute you for anything. Regardless of what they WANT to do, they can ACCOMPLISH nothing in Idaho if you are following guidelines. So again, what are you scared of?
A direct answer would be nice. No more dancing around it. Say what you think they could do and what the personal ramifications to YOU would be. Otherwise, I'll have to presume that you simply won't sell to California as a protest, not because you "won't subject your business to the CA DOJ." If that's the case, why do you sell within the U.S. given the current federal leaders and unconstitutional laws? And if you don't like the leaders and laws, why don't you move? If you don't like the unconstitutional laws, then YOU should have elected somebody better?
If you cannot figure it out from what's been posted here, I cannot help you.
Let me ask you a simple question and leave it at that. How many times in your daily life/occupation have you come in contact with undercover agents TRYING to set you up doing something illegal...doing their best to get you to make a mistake of some sort? It happens every day in this business...hence this ENTIRE DISCUSSION!
You still won't answer. If YOU do everything by the book, there is NOTHING that the CA DOJ can do to you. Now if you are cutting corners, it doesn't matter if it's the CA DOJ or the BATF, you will eventually get caught and screw up.
Admit it, you won't sell to California as a protest to the anti-gun laws. However, you still sell to the rest of the country DESPITE the anti-gun laws.
Like I said, you don't understand this business very well...and it shows. I think you should get an FFL and learn a thing or two.
I was kinda hoping you had something better than this....
Don
When someone proves to be this ignorant, I quickly lose interest in discussing matters with them. If he doesn't get it by now, he's not going to get it period.
See my previous post. There is nothing to get as you have not given an answer. You say that you lose interest, yet you come back to SAY that you've lost interest and then repeat yourself. You'll probably just say to look at your previous posts and lock the thread.
Don't worry. We understand that you don't sell to California in protest and that's fine. But trying to claim that it is for some other reason like the CA DOJ will try to shut you down just makes you look foolish.
Have you ever bothered to even read one of my auctions? I'm quite clear as to the MANY reasons I refuse to sell to Kalifornians. Wake up and smell the coffee dude...it's right in front of you.
Have you ever bothered to even read one of my auctions? I'm quite clear as to the MANY reasons I refuse to sell to Kalifornians. Wake up and smell the coffee dude...it's right in front of you.
I suppose that you're talking about this:
Due to the vast number of Anti-Second Amendment Laws in California, we no longer sell to CA residents. It's time for CA residents to stand up and demand their RIGHTS back. As of July, 1st 2008, the CA DOJ requires dealers and wholesalers to jump through a number of hoops to send firearms into their state. We will not participate in this Un-Constitutional regulation. I truly hope the gun owners of CA will stand up and take their state back.until that time, NO SALES TO CA RESIDENTS.
Let's separate it. The first part:
"Due to the vast number of Anti-Second Amendment Laws in California, we no longer sell to CA residents. It's time for CA residents to stand up and demand their RIGHTS back."
This, I understand. You do it to protest the Anti-Second Amendment laws. That's fine. I won't go into the fact that the ENTIRE country has Anti-Second amendment laws, vast numbers of them even, yet you still sell to the rest of the country. I also don't see you doing anything to "stand up and demand your RIGHTS back" on a federal level that the California gun owners aren't doing on a state level.
The second part:
"As of July, 1st 2008, the CA DOJ requires dealers and wholesalers to jump through a number of hoops to send firearms into their state. We will not participate in this Un-Constitutional regulation."
You won't participate in THIS "Un-Constitutional regulation" but you will participate in all of the others? i.e. background checks, no full auto, etc.
Regardless, what you state in your auctions is that it is in protest. I've asked you MULTIPLE times what you think that the CA DOJ is actually going to DO to you. You keep responding that it's obvious, yet you never say. Then you say that it is "clearly stated" in your auctions but in fact, it appears to only be in protest.
So I'll ask it in a more simple way.
Do you refuse to register with the CA DOJ to protest? (That's #1) Or do you refuse to register with the CA DOJ because you are worried that they will do something to harm your business? (That's #2)
Just indicate your answer by number.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
Have you ever bothered to even read one of my auctions? I'm quite clear as to the MANY reasons I refuse to sell to Kalifornians. Wake up and smell the coffee dude...it's right in front of you.
I suppose that you're talking about this:
Due to the vast number of Anti-Second Amendment Laws in California, we no longer sell to CA residents. It's time for CA residents to stand up and demand their RIGHTS back. As of July, 1st 2008, the CA DOJ requires dealers and wholesalers to jump through a number of hoops to send firearms into their state. We will not participate in this Un-Constitutional regulation. I truly hope the gun owners of CA will stand up and take their state back.until that time, NO SALES TO CA RESIDENTS.
Let's separate it. The first part:
"Due to the vast number of Anti-Second Amendment Laws in California, we no longer sell to CA residents. It's time for CA residents to stand up and demand their RIGHTS back."
This, I understand. You do it to protest the Anti-Second Amendment laws. That's fine. I won't go into the fact that the ENTIRE country has Anti-Second amendment laws, vast numbers of them even, yet you still sell to the rest of the country. I also don't see you doing anything to "stand up and demand your RIGHTS back" on a federal level that the California gun owners aren't doing on a state level.
The second part:
"As of July, 1st 2008, the CA DOJ requires dealers and wholesalers to jump through a number of hoops to send firearms into their state. We will not participate in this Un-Constitutional regulation."
You won't participate in THIS "Un-Constitutional regulation" but you will participate in all of the others? i.e. background checks, no full auto, etc.
Regardless, what you state in your auctions is that it is in protest. I've asked you MULTIPLE times what you think that the CA DOJ is actually going to DO to you. You keep responding that it's obvious, yet you never say. Then you say that it is "clearly stated" in your auctions but in fact, it appears to only be in protest.
So I'll ask it in a more simple way.
Do you refuse to register with the CA DOJ to protest? (That's #1) Or do you refuse to register with the CA DOJ because you are worried that they will do something to harm your business? (That's #2)
Just indicate your answer by number.
Both...as stated 1001 times...quite clearly, mind you.
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by ECC
Have you ever bothered to even read one of my auctions? I'm quite clear as to the MANY reasons I refuse to sell to Kalifornians. Wake up and smell the coffee dude...it's right in front of you.
I suppose that you're talking about this:
Due to the vast number of Anti-Second Amendment Laws in California, we no longer sell to CA residents. It's time for CA residents to stand up and demand their RIGHTS back. As of July, 1st 2008, the CA DOJ requires dealers and wholesalers to jump through a number of hoops to send firearms into their state. We will not participate in this Un-Constitutional regulation. I truly hope the gun owners of CA will stand up and take their state back.until that time, NO SALES TO CA RESIDENTS.
Let's separate it. The first part:
"Due to the vast number of Anti-Second Amendment Laws in California, we no longer sell to CA residents. It's time for CA residents to stand up and demand their RIGHTS back."
This, I understand. You do it to protest the Anti-Second Amendment laws. That's fine. I won't go into the fact that the ENTIRE country has Anti-Second amendment laws, vast numbers of them even, yet you still sell to the rest of the country. I also don't see you doing anything to "stand up and demand your RIGHTS back" on a federal level that the California gun owners aren't doing on a state level.
The second part:
"As of July, 1st 2008, the CA DOJ requires dealers and wholesalers to jump through a number of hoops to send firearms into their state. We will not participate in this Un-Constitutional regulation."
You won't participate in THIS "Un-Constitutional regulation" but you will participate in all of the others? i.e. background checks, no full auto, etc.
Regardless, what you state in your auctions is that it is in protest. I've asked you MULTIPLE times what you think that the CA DOJ is actually going to DO to you. You keep responding that it's obvious, yet you never say. Then you say that it is "clearly stated" in your auctions but in fact, it appears to only be in protest.
So I'll ask it in a more simple way.
Do you refuse to register with the CA DOJ to protest? (That's #1) Or do you refuse to register with the CA DOJ because you are worried that they will do something to harm your business? (That's #2)
Just indicate your answer by number.
Both...as stated 1001 times...quite clearly, mind you.
I've never read a single post where you specify WHAT you believe that the CA DOJ could/would do to you. It's not in your little auction blurb. It's not in this thread. Mind pointing to just ONE of the "1001 times" please?