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Nord, and Scout5, you have saved me a Hatful of typing! Thanks for taking on the discussion!
I say this as a retiree from a 100% Unionized American Maritime Career of over 35 years. As noted by another poster, Unions, (MY UNION AMONG THEM) have participated in Killing an Industry. All I now live on is the result of my Union, yet I can say with absolute certainty (Because I lived it) that Unions protect the Least among them, the rum-dummies, the malfeasors, the mentally weak or incompetent. A person who continued his education was paid no more than the Least capable worker in the same position. People were dispatched to jobs they were unqualified for. Damages were blamed on the Employer. Injuries caused by stupidity were almost always blamed on an Employer's providing an "Unsafe Workplace".
They seldom go to the Employer and say: "We have found a better way to do the job, with less people", Instead, when the Employer says we have a New automated process that does the same process we formerly used Sixteen workers for, and does it faster, (with less rework) using only Four workers", and finds the Union willing. Instead, the Union Relies on "Past Practice" and Retraining requirements, Restrictive "Work Rules", and Featherbedding (look it up).
I worked during the period of the Computer Revolution (1970-2003), and time after time, any attempt to modernize was resisted or Struck by the Unions.
When I entered The Industry, there were over 1000 U.S. Flagged Ships, and America could support itself delivering Goods and Supplies to and From the Country. Now, there are Less Than 400 ships Flying the U.S. Flag, and when we need to move Materiel and Supplies to support a Military effort, we have to Contract with Shipping Companies whose own Captains will Load the Cargo, and then Refuse to deliver them, because they are for a "War"! If All-Out World War is declared, we can GUARANTEE we will suffer greatly, as there are not enough U.S. Bottoms to deliver the goods!
You are going by the old streotype of how union use to operate. some unions have changed with the times. Years ago, when I started my appenticeship, we were taught that the "business of America was business" and that business was making money. We were told that if we werent productive and make the company money, we wouldnt have a job. If were werent productive, noone would want us, the company or the union. We were also taught that noone wins a strike. There are also ways of getting rid of lazy non-productive POS written into the contract. These rules are written down, open and fair, and have been used. Not to long ago we had a pos on our crew that called off sick constantly, showed up drunk, and wasnt doing his job. The company used the process in the contract to get rid of him. First he was written up and offered help, which he refused. The second time he was given unpaid time off. The third time he was taken before the board and fired (good ridance too). We were taught also by the union that the days of hostility between managment and union were ovwer, cooperation was now the new normal. We havent had a strike in over 30 years, so it works! The only pension I have is one I pay for thru the union, and the company has no ties to it. I get a generous match on my 401k from the company, and no after retirement health care. When I retire I will no ties to the company. They will have no legacy costs from me. Not all unions are like mine, but a lot are.
I have been successful at both non-union and union jobs, but I prefer a union shop because it takes care of the problems that non-union shops have like favoriteism and brown noseing. We have a fair system the decides who works overtime in a union shop. Never had that in non-union. Are unions for everyone? No. But if you dont like unions dont join one! This is how unions have changed, and will contine to change with the times. The old sterotype about the union "boss" is also wrong. We vote for our leaders, and anyone can run of union office. We can see the books anytime we want, to see were they are spending our dues money. Its all out in the open. Nom one tells me how to vote in government elections either, they just provide a list of canidates with there stands on the issues and encourage us to vote, but dont tell us who to vote for. We have a great job and we know it. We work hard to make sure the company makes money, and not just so we can get a bigger bonus (which helps!) but so we know we'll have that we get to keep that job!
By the way, Im the junior man on my crew, just so you know.
Wyatt Earp in the movie Tombstone were the cowboys not a union? bad union although standing together for a bad cause
the Earps and Doc Holiday and friends a union likewise standing for a good cause granted it was a movie but to me it's a example of good unions and bad unions
unions are only as good or bad as the people are made up of just like a church or any other union or group
just what I believe I know this ain't no movie so please no one throw that at me
quote:Originally posted by HandLoad
Nord, and Scout5, you have saved me a Hatful of typing! Thanks for taking on the discussion!
I say this as a retiree from a 100% Unionized American Maritime Career of over 35 years. As noted by another poster, Unions, (MY UNION AMONG THEM) have participated in Killing an Industry. All I now live on is the result of my Union, yet I can say with absolute certainty (Because I lived it) that Unions protect the Least among them, the rum-dummies, the malfeasors, the mentally weak or incompetent. A person who continued his education was paid no more than the Least capable worker in the same position. People were dispatched to jobs they were unqualified for. Damages were blamed on the Employer. Injuries caused by stupidity were almost always blamed on an Employer's providing an "Unsafe Workplace".
They seldom go to the Employer and say: "We have found a better way to do the job, with less people", Instead, when the Employer says we have a New automated process that does the same process we formerly used Sixteen workers for, and does it faster, (with less rework) using only Four workers", and finds the Union willing. Instead, the Union Relies on "Past Practice" and Retraining requirements, Restrictive "Work Rules", and Featherbedding (look it up).
I worked during the period of the Computer Revolution (1970-2003), and time after time, any attempt to modernize was resisted or Struck by the Unions.
When I entered The Industry, there were over 1000 U.S. Flagged Ships, and America could support itself delivering Goods and Supplies to and From the Country. Now, there are Less Than 400 ships Flying the U.S. Flag, and when we need to move Materiel and Supplies to support a Military effort, we have to Contract with Shipping Companies whose own Captains will Load the Cargo, and then Refuse to deliver them, because they are for a "War"! If All-Out World War is declared, we can GUARANTEE we will suffer greatly, as there are not enough U.S. Bottoms to deliver the goods!
People were dispatched to jobs they were unqualified for.
How was that the unions fault??? managment directs the workforce.
400 us flagged ships has a lot more to do with US taxes and regulations than the unions.
Like Ive said else were some unions are better than others, and some change with the times and others(UAW) learn too late.
quote:Originally posted by danielgage
union is not a group of people standing together?
Were talking about a different kind of union. The kind where workers are forced to pay big dues to a gang of thugs who use the money to form the communist wing of the Democratic Party. While destroying the company and pretending to help the workers. That kind.
quote:Originally posted by c133
Look at GM to see how good the Union is running there. Talk about employees that are slugs. Check out all their benefits to see why GM had to do the bankruptcy thing. Also, the Union would NOT budge to give up anything even when they knew that the Company could possibly close the doors.
I've worked in a Union shop (IAM) and all the Union did was protect the lazy workers. Seniority rules even in your day to day job. Low man gets all the crap to do while your "senior" union brothers sit by and watch. Don't ever tell me how great Unions are.
Remember when the UAW would strike the big three in rotation? so as not to disrupt the industry. They had no real issues of redress. Just squeezing for more pay.
quote:Originally posted by bigoutside
quote:Originally posted by c133
Look at GM to see how good the Union is running there. Talk about employees that are slugs. Check out all their benefits to see why GM had to do the bankruptcy thing. Also, the Union would NOT budge to give up anything even when they knew that the Company could possibly close the doors.
I've worked in a Union shop (IAM) and all the Union did was protect the lazy workers. Seniority rules even in your day to day job. Low man gets all the crap to do while your "senior" union brothers sit by and watch. Don't ever tell me how great Unions are.
Remember when the UAW would strike the big three in rotation? so as not to disrupt the industry. They had no real issues of redress. Just squeezing for more pay.
The UAW is a good example of a union that refused to change with the times and roll with the punches. They, and big three managment failed to realize that what worked in 1985, doesnt work in 2008, and both sides lost.
Like I said there are goods unions, bad unions, and stupid unions....UAW was a stupid one!
Like I said there are goods unions, bad unions, and stupid unions. exactly what the middle said people with good intentions and people with bad intentions
quote:Originally posted by danielgage
Like I said there are goods unions, bad unions, and stupid unions. exactly what the middle said people with good intentions and people with bad intentions
Exactly, same as with everything else.
There are many kinds of unions as has been stated.
Civil Unions
Credit Unions
Labor Unions
Trade Unions
And even just plain unions. (As in iron pipe or PVC.)
And for all I know the local Elks could be considered a union.
There is absolutely nothing evil about a union as by definition a union brings things or people together. A number of contributors here, though, seem to be getting a bit confused about unions and two additional terms. Collective and Bargaining.
The reason I've come to this conclusion is that some seem not to understand that the minute a union focuses on COLLECTIVE BARGAINING said union at once becomes a socialist entity.
Consider "Collectives" in the old Soviet Union. They were supposed to level the field for all workers... And they did! Everyone became poor. There existed no incentive for anyone to perform better than the worst. So the Collectives had very many doing very little and very poorly. This is a paradise where everyone is just a little hungry and there's not quite enough heat in the winter, and your shoes aren't any worse than those of your neighbor? And, worse yet, there's no hope for better!
Ever hear of "No Child Left Behind"? This is a collectivist theory applied in our schools. After all, we must be politically correct. And the result is exactly the same as in the Russian Collectives! The bar is set so low that everyone does nothing. Collectivism insures an equal reward for everyone. (Not that the reward is worth anything.) It also insures that there will exist no incentive to better oneself. All in all a system that guarantees failure... OF EVERYONE!
I have no fight with those of you who point out the possibility of corporate abuse of employees. Certainly nobody deserves to be abused. Unions helped to largely eliminate this and we should all respect their accomplishments. Abusive activities need to be curtailed.
The problem is that unions have now in many instances exceeded their primary directive. Unions today are about power and politics. Don't for a minute believe that some unions are there for the benefit of members. It's really the other way around. If you don't believe me, then just look at union management. Look at their life styles and salaries. Compare them to your own as some of you seem so good at doing. Don't be blind.
And after you've honestly looked, I ask that we once again to go back to the old Soviet Union. Not everyone was poor. Not everyone was equal. Not everyone had the same bleak future. There were always a few that lived above the masses. How could this have been?
Explain to me just how a privileged few got where they did. It didn't have anything to do with power and politics, did it? It didn't have anything to do with equality only meaning that the poor were equally poor, did it? Was there something else?
I ask this because many of you who constantly complain about our class system (poor, middle class, and rich) somehow believe that unions are the key to a classless society. Equality if you will. My fear is that if you succeed in your goal of "equality" you'll eliminate but one class... The middle class.
And that, gentlemen, will leave only the rich and the poor. Old Vlad and Karl would be so very pleased. Carry on!
THANKS Nord I for one am trying to understand(not dumb just hard headed and slow I reckon)
I am a member of the IBEW and I was not a member when I started working at my job but after learning that the IBEW was a big part of the safety programs we have now working with high voltage electricity I decided to join in and pay my dues
I guess I am questioning whether I should not be a part of such a sorry group but I know they have helped greatly in the past so I pay my part(dues) it is my chose to stay or leave the brotherhood as I am in a right to work state
I hope you realize that I'm not attempting to get you or anyone else to join or leave a union because of what I believe or say. I am, however, asking folks to take off their blinders and learn to see what's being shoved at them. It appears that you're doing so.
So... Look and learn. Then decide based upon what you've learned. Just remember that even the devil is capable of good deeds when it suits his purposes.
quote:Originally posted by the middle
quote:Originally posted by SCOUT5
quote:Originally posted by the middle
Well Scouts, who wrote that check?????
I have many other things to do besides sit on my computer, today I worked, 12 hours in fact. I got paid well for it, and I am not in a union.
I see the truth is going to mean little to you. Our Tea Party group started with effort and some self paid ads in the local rags to let people know we were there. We got an amazing response. It doesn't take money to do most of what we do. There is not a national Tea Party directing our movement. There is a loose afiliation with other groups. The media keeps thrying to place someone as our national leaders, I guess you buy into that.
Yes we raised our own money, mostly out of our own pockets. What you choose to believe is obviously up to you. Our budget isn't very large really. Again believe what you want. No one wrote us a check to get started, do you understand, NO ONE. Oh that's right, you didn't want me to tell you the truth, it doesn't fit what you wish to believe. I respond simply because I want other readers to know the truth.
The voters of this country will teach the unions some hard lessons if the unions continue to try shoving socialism down our throats by supporting POS socialist like BHO. I have made an honest attempt to relay that point without insulting or getting hostile. If you take my opinion as insulting so be it. There is a very strong drive to move this country to socialism and the unions as a whole are a major force, the hammer if you will, pushing in that direction. If that insults you, fine, it is your mind doing the processing.
When I said we will change them, did you think I meant? I meant the American people, those of us who still believe in liberty, personal freedom, and personal free enterprise. You know, the things unions don't believe in, if they believed in them they would support them instead of POS socialist like BHO and others of his ilk. Actions speak, when the union's actions promote socialism that is all the proof needed to understand their beliefs.
If this goes to the street are the unions going to arm themselves and fight for the imperial power they so much admire or are they going to fight for liberty and personal freedom? What are you going to do? I suggested and am lobbying for an alternative, seems you are not interested in that.
I knew you wouldnt tell the truth! You dont go from nothing to have a "tea party" in every little county and town in the nation overnight without extreme amount of cash....enter the Koch brothers....
for your reading pleasure...I pull back the curtain......
Peter Fenn
Tea Party Funding Koch Brothers Emerge From Anonymity
By Peter Fenn
Posted: February 2, 2011
Print
Few in America had heard about the third-richest Americans, brothers David and Charles Koch, until just recently. Aside from David Koch's gifts to the Lincoln Center in New York and the naming of a theater after him, few outside a small, elite circle would recognize the name or know how to pronounce it. ("Koch" as in "coke")
For decades, they were under the radar. They and their father had amassed an incredible fortune, mainly in the oil business. Their privately held company revenues last year were estimated at $100 billion. Each brother is worth $21.5 billion. That is a very big "B" in both cases.
For many years, they have been involved in politics but not terribly open or transparent about it. It is true that David Koch ran as vice president on the 1980 Libertarian ticket, to the right of Ronald Reagan. According to New York Times columnist Frank Rich, "his campaign called for the abolition not just of Social Security, federal regulatory agencies and welfare but also of the FBI, the CIA, and public schools." Since the Libertarian party's 1 percent showing in 1980, David Koch has very much been behind the scenes, until now. [See who donates the most to your member of Congress.]
Jane Mayer, of The New Yorker, in her 10,000 word piece last August, peeled the cover off the onion of the Koch brothers' empire. And she focused not only on their personal wealth and family, but on their political empire building.
It was not, and is not, easy to get the details on the extent of their tentacles. They funnel money through 501c3 tax-exempt foundations, and they give money to other foundations, lobbying organizations, and right wing think tanks. They have PACs; they support candidates. Only a small portion of what they control do they divulge.
But it has now come out how involved they have been in funding Tea Party groups, Americans for Prosperity, FreedomWorks, and Citizens for a Sound Economy ($12 million). [Check out a roundup of political cartoons on the Tea Party.]
We do know, from Mayer's reporting, that the Koch brothers have personally given over $2 million to candidates over the last 12 years, their PAC has contributed $8 million to candidates, and they have spent $50 million on lobbying. The Charles Koch Foundation has given $48 million, and another foundation they control gave $28 million. David Koch's foundation gave more than $120 million. According to Mayer, $196 million dollars in total was distributed in the last 10 years to conservative causes and institutions.
That all, as they say, is not chicken feed, and it begs the question: How in the heck did they stay under the radar for as long as they did?
Part of the reason is that much of what they did was not reportable but, more important, until recently they were not pouring the millions into campaigns through advertising and expenditures allowed due to the Citizens United Supreme Court case. [Read the U.S. News debate: Is the Citizens United decision hurting democracy?]
Now, to the paranoia. These folks would make Richard Nixon's enemies list look tame. This could be a movie akin to George Clooney's Michael Clayton.
This past weekend the Koch brothers hosted a conference in Palm Springs that resembled an armed camp. Private Koch security was everywhere-manning every doorway and stairway within range of the conference. Reporters were confronted by private security guards and told to leave or they would be arrested, and a Common Cause official had his lunch reservation canceled and was told to check out of the hotel by Koch's security detail. Young environmental activists were slapped with $100,000 law suits for demonstrating and engaging in pranks. A Politico reporter describes being thrown out and threatened with "a night in the Riverside County jail."
All this while hiring an army of lawyers, PR flacks, political consultants, and pollsters to protect their "empire." Everywhere there were folks spinning. Even reporters, who had been paid by Koch, attended the conference to "report" on what they "learned." Well, Lord knows they have the money.
My guess is that anonymity will not be the Koch brothers' middle name any longer
n May 17th, a black-tie audience at the Metropolitan Opera House applauded as a tall, jovial-looking billionaire took the stage. It was the seventieth annual spring gala of American Ballet Theatre, and David H. Koch was being celebrated for his generosity as a member of the board of trustees; he had recently donated $2.5 million toward the company's upcoming season, and had given many millions before that. Koch received an award while flanked by two of the gala's co-chairs, Blaine Trump, in a peach-colored gown, and Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg, in emerald green. Kennedy's mother, Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, had been a patron of the ballet and, coincidentally, the previous owner of a Fifth Avenue apartment that Koch had bought, in 1995, and then sold, eleven years later, for thirty-two million dollars, having found it too small.
The gala marked the social ascent of Koch, who, at the age of seventy, has become one of the city's most prominent philanthropists. In 2008, he donated a hundred million dollars to modernize Lincoln Center's New York State Theatre building, which now bears his name. He has given twenty million to the American Museum of Natural History, whose dinosaur wing is named for him. This spring, after noticing the decrepit state of the fountains outside the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Koch pledged at least ten million dollars for their renovation. He is a trustee of the museum, perhaps the most coveted social prize in the city, and serves on the board of Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, where, after he donated more than forty million dollars, an endowed chair and a research center were named for him.
One dignitary was conspicuously absent from the gala: the event's third honorary co-chair, Michelle Obama. Her office said that a scheduling conflict had prevented her from attending. Yet had the First Lady shared the stage with Koch it might have created an awkward tableau. In Washington, Koch is best known as part of a family that has repeatedly funded stealth attacks on the federal government, and on the Obama Administration in particular.
With his brother Charles, who is seventy-four, David Koch owns virtually all of Koch Industries, a conglomerate, headquartered in Wichita, Kansas, whose annual revenues are estimated to be a hundred billion dollars. The company has grown spectacularly since their father, Fred, died, in 1967, and the brothers took charge. The Kochs operate oil refineries in Alaska, Texas, and Minnesota, and control some four thousand miles of pipeline. Koch Industries owns Brawny paper towels, Dixie cups, Georgia-Pacific lumber, Stainmaster carpet, and Lycra, among other products. Forbes ranks it as the second-largest private company in the country, after Cargill, and its consistent profitability has made David and Charles Koch-who, years ago, bought out two other brothers-among the richest men in America. Their combined fortune of thirty-five billion dollars is exceeded only by those of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.
from the issuecartoon banke-mail this.The Kochs are longtime libertarians who believe in drastically lower personal and corporate taxes, minimal social services for the needy, and much less oversight of industry-especially environmental regulation. These views dovetail with the brothers' corporate interests. In a study released this spring, the University of Massachusetts at Amherst's Political Economy Research Institute named Koch Industries one of the top ten air polluters in the United States. And Greenpeace issued a report identifying the company as a "kingpin of climate science denial." The report showed that, from 2005 to 2008, the Kochs vastly outdid ExxonMobil in giving money to organizations fighting legislation related to climate change, underwriting a huge network of foundations, think tanks, and political front groups. Indeed, the brothers have funded opposition campaigns against so many Obama Administration policies-from health-care reform to the economic-stimulus program-that, in political circles, their ideological network is known as the Kochtopus.
In a statement, Koch Industries said that the Greenpeace report "distorts the environmental record of our companies." And David Koch, in a recent, admiring article about him in New York, protested that the "radical press" had turned his family into "whipping boys," and had exaggerated its influence on American politics. But Charles Lewis, the founder of the Center for Public Integrity, a nonpartisan watchdog group, said, "The Kochs are on a whole different level. There's no one else who has spent this much money. The sheer dimension of it is what sets them apart. They have a pattern of lawbreaking, political manipulation, and obfuscation. I've been in Washington since Watergate, and I've never seen anything like it. They are the Standard Oil of our times."
A few weeks after the Lincoln Center gala, the advocacy wing of the Americans for Prosperity Foundation-an organization that David Koch started, in 2004-held a different kind of gathering. Over the July 4th weekend, a summit called Texas Defending the American Dream took place in a chilly hotel ballroom in Austin. Though Koch freely promotes his philanthropic ventures, he did not attend the summit, and his name was not in evidence. And on this occasion the audience was roused not by a dance performance but by a series of speakers denouncing President Barack Obama. Peggy Venable, the organizer of the summit, warned that Administration officials "have a socialist vision for this country."
Five hundred people attended the summit, which served, in part, as a training session for Tea Party activists in Texas. An advertisement cast the event as a populist uprising against vested corporate power. "Today, the voices of average Americans are being drowned out by lobbyists and special interests," it said. "But you can do something about it." The pitch made no mention of its corporate funders. The White House has expressed frustration that such sponsors have largely eluded public notice. David Axelrod, Obama's senior adviser, said, "What they don't say is that, in part, this is a grassroots citizens' movement brought to you by a bunch of oil billionaires."
Again it's obvious you do not care to know the truth. It seems to surprise you that millions of people across this country are willing to donate time, money, footwork, professional resources etc. etc. to promote the cause of liberty and a return to a constitutionally limited government.
Again the Tea Party Movement is operated on a very local level. Again I know where we get our money and where we spend it. Again believe what you will.
As for the Koch brothers. I am glad some people with those type of resource share my beliefs and are willing to use those resources to promote them. What they can do does not come close to the resources the unions use to promote socialism, but it will help a little. If they donate a little money to some Tea Party movements it is welcome, we need all the help we can get. I already stated in another thread we did receive some donations after we had obtained some success. Those donations were less than 2% of what we had spent. We appreciated it but it didn't change what we do or how we operate, and it had nothing to do with getting us started, we were already well beyond started.
You may be real suprised what $20 each from 200 different people will accomplish in advertising when no one is taking a salary out of it. Is that a foreign concept to you, that people will actually donate time and moeny to things they believe in?
You don't get it and it's obvious you are choosing not to. That doesn't change the fact that millions of people are willing to fight for the future of liberty in this country. We do this without the manipulation union members have been exposed to in their fight for socialism. I guess for you it is hard to believe people would donate their resources without being forced to have it taken out of their paychecks disguised as dues.
Oh well, believe What you wish. I do hope if it ever goes to the streets you will fight on the side of liberty and not on the side of the socialist empire.
quote:Originally posted by the middle
You are going by the old streotype of how union use to operate. some unions have changed with the times. Years ago, when I started my appenticeship, we were taught that the "business of America was business" and that business was making money. We were told that if we werent productive and make the company money, we wouldnt have a job. If were werent productive, noone would want us, the company or the union. We were also taught that noone wins a strike. There are also ways of getting rid of lazy non-productive POS written into the contract. These rules are written down, open and fair, and have been used. Not to long ago we had a pos on our crew that called off sick constantly, showed up drunk, and wasnt doing his job. The company used the process in the contract to get rid of him. First he was written up and offered help, which he refused. The second time he was given unpaid time off. The third time he was taken before the board and fired (good ridance too). We were taught also by the union that the days of hostility between managment and union were ovwer, cooperation was now the new normal. We havent had a strike in over 30 years, so it works! The only pension I have is one I pay for thru the union, and the company has no ties to it. I get a generous match on my 401k from the company, and no after retirement health care. When I retire I will no ties to the company. They will have no legacy costs from me. Not all unions are like mine, but a lot are.
I have been successful at both non-union and union jobs, but I prefer a union shop because it takes care of the problems that non-union shops have like favoriteism and brown noseing. We have a fair system the decides who works overtime in a union shop. Never had that in non-union. Are unions for everyone? No. But if you dont like unions dont join one! This is how unions have changed, and will contine to change with the times. The old sterotype about the union "boss" is also wrong. We vote for our leaders, and anyone can run of union office. We can see the books anytime we want, to see were they are spending our dues money. Its all out in the open. Nom one tells me how to vote in government elections either, they just provide a list of canidates with there stands on the issues and encourage us to vote, but dont tell us who to vote for. We have a great job and we know it. We work hard to make sure the company makes money, and not just so we can get a bigger bonus (which helps!) but so we know we'll have that we get to keep that job!
By the way, Im the junior man on my crew, just so you know.
As I have stated before, unions can be a good things for both the employees and the company if done correctly. The union has to know what they are offering and what it is worth. The union should promote excellence and productivity in the work force. A good union will take a lot of the load off of the company. For this the company can afford to pay a premium wage to the union members, because the union should be saving the company money in other areas, less material waste, less re-runs, less errors etc. A top producing crew deserves top pay.
You aknowledge not all unions are like this though some are and you claim yours is.
The issue is the unions (in large part) have got in bed with the government and they have been scratching each others backs. I have already posted my opinion on what this has lead to, so I will not re-post it. The American people have had enough of it and it has to change.
2011 U.S.A. These Unions are ruining our county, we must get rid of them!
1932 Germany These Jews are ruining our county, We must get rid of them!
I do not see much differents in your views! It was all done with the betterment of the "Nation" in mind! All you people are doing is subsituteing Union for Jew. History will repete itself because we never learn from it.
You have to blame someone, it is easy to go after less the 10% of the work force in the U.S.A. then fix the problems. But it makes you feel better so I guess it has to be right!
quote:Originally posted by UNIVERSITY50
2011 U.S.A. These Unions are ruining our county, we must get rid of them!
1932 Germany These Jews are ruining our county, We must get rid of them!
I do not see much differents in your views! It was all done with the betterment of the "Nation" in mind! All you people are doing is subsituteing Union for Jew. History will repete itself because we never learn from it.
You have to blame someone, it is easy to go after less the 10% of the work force in the U.S.A. then fix the problems. But it makes you feel better so I guess it has to be right!
10% of the work force collectively throwing their money behind the promotion of socialism is a threat to the country. Care to know the power of 3%?
I have been a Union member for 25 years and our Union has never promoted socialism. I am glad you are the all seeing, all knowing, wizard of Socialism! I hope you are firing up the ovens for us 10%. God forbid some would have different views then yours and support them as you support yours, but under your plan the 1st Adm. would be the first thing to go. My way or the highway, should be the Tea Party Motto, if in fact this is how all the tea baggers think.
i am a member of a union,an hate givin them my money.
it does protect the lazy,but there are ways to get rid of the dead wieght.
what the union does for me is,INSURANCE as in if i mess something up
i keep my job.
the plant came to us members an asked to re-set wages to a lower scale.
we said yes.
my folks worked union (post office) had bumper stickers that read.
"work union eat better"
GA is a right to work state,i didnt have to join but i did.
i have the addressed envlope ready to mail an give my book back.
It appears that you confuse "ruining" with "running". I suppose this is to be expected given the general level of education in today's world.
Your mention of of the Jews is interesting and your verbiage correct at least in the context used. Hitler needed a scapegoat and led the German people to believe the Jews were ruining the country.
I'm more interested, though, as to why you didn't mention Nazi use of unions toward their goal of National Socialism. (There's that nasty word again.) I would think it more to the point in this discussion because we're far past the need of a scapegoat. After all we're not looking to find a problem as were the Nazis, we already have a really good one!
So perhaps we should now explore the term "running" instead of ruining. "Running" is more appropriate to today's lesson. Quite the opposite of the Nazis who infiltrated unions, the unions here have infiltrated government. The 10% many point out is such a tiny minority is in reality attempting to steal the show. Unions have literally purchased our politicians and inserted themselves into government. And the joke is on us, the taxpayer and the dues-paying union member.
Is there by some chance a lack of understanding on your part of the difference between public and private? Do you not understand the concept of empty coffers, or do you believe that someone else can always be taxed to support your interests? Maybe you just know more than we the unwashed masses. Who knows?
In any case it would appear that you assume most of us to be nationalists. Fact is, I wouldn't be surprised to hear Fascist or Nazi used by your side when describing mine. In fact we're mostly just the opposite.
I, myself, can probably best described as a Constitutional Libertarian. I believe in limited government and a free society under the Constitution. I see those in Minnesota and other states as being a grave threat to the society intended by the founders of this nation. I have no sympathy for them, other than a certain sadness that they're too stupid to see how they're being used. And perhaps even sadder that they're sharpening the knife that will eventually be used to cut their own throats.
Nobody here on my side of the fence is advocating violence nor the abolition of unions. We are, though, advocating the removal of union power from government where it has absolutely no place. If you can't see this, then I can only assume that while you may have a degree, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're educated. And one must remember that educated doesn't always mean intelligent.
We make it very clear in our employee handbook that we will avoid unionization by all lawful means available.
I have talked to the owner of our company about this and he says if anyone unionizes that will be the end of Christmas parties, summer picnics, pay raises, bonuses, free uniforms and cleaning, health and life insurance coverage, and matching 401K. All non management will be reduced to minimum wage until the union members quit. If anyone strikes they will be immediately and permanently replaced and banned from the property. If all else fails he says he'll close and liquidate the business and retire on his yacht.
I completely agree I would rather lose and replace every employee we have than to give ANY concession to a socialist union. My opinion is union members are lazy and ungrateful. Everyone is employed at will which means they can leave or be fired at any time for any reason or no reason at all. Anyone who is unwilling to accept what is offered can go elsewhere. In any company orders come from the top down not the other way around, anyone who tells me what I will pay them, and what benefits I will provide them (collectively or not) is not going have a job very long.
quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
We make it very clear in our employee handbook that we will avoid unionization by all lawful means available.
I have talked to the owner of our company about this and he says if anyone unionizes that will be the end of Christmas parties, summer picnics, pay raises, bonuses, free uniforms and cleaning, health and life insurance coverage, and matching 401K. All non management will be reduced to minimum wage until the union members quit. If anyone strikes they will be immediately and permanently replaced and banned from the property. If all else fails he says he'll close and liquidate the business and retire on his yacht.
WOW!!! I guess you won't be paying any union dues are the employees treated fairly at your company?
which side of the fence do you work management or non-management?
I would like to know which one we own, because they are not helping anyone! Again if we do not sing along to your song or drink your Koolaid we must be stupid (or at least do not have any Intelligence). I would think you should be looking at the fortune 500 to see who owns the politicians. The Problem is the Nasty Union "Usually" support the Dems. and the great civic minded people running the fortune 500 "Usually" support the Repub. They can Kill to birds with one stone by breaking the Unions. More money in there pockets and less funding for the "other" side. I can not sing and do not like your Koolaid. I do not vote for the any party line, I vote for who I think is best. And Yes I believe they are looking for a scapegoat to further the "Cause".
Again I still think the 1st Adm. is still in place and any group or individual can still support who they want. I do not see anyone one in a union try to break up your Tea Party, they may speak out and voice thier feelings, just like you can.
quote:Originally posted by danielgage
quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
We make it very clear in our employee handbook that we will avoid unionization by all lawful means available.
I have talked to the owner of our company about this and he says if anyone unionizes that will be the end of Christmas parties, summer picnics, pay raises, bonuses, free uniforms and cleaning, health and life insurance coverage, and matching 401K. All non management will be reduced to minimum wage until the union members quit. If anyone strikes they will be immediately and permanently replaced and banned from the property. If all else fails he says he'll close and liquidate the business and retire on his yacht.
WOW!!! I guess you won't be paying any union dues are the employees treated fairly at your company?
which side of the fence do you work management or non-management?
I am an area manager, my boss is the owner of the company. Our employess are paid very well, much better than any comparable job in this area (usually min wage). Our starting pay is $12 an hour employees pay 1/3 of the insurance (health and life) premiums and 401K if they elect to do so, the company covers 2/3. Christmas parties and summer picnics are all expense paid by the company. Uniforms are provided free to employees and the company pays for them to be cleaned. Hourly employees with no disciplinary actions gets a pay raise every 6 months, minimum of $.05 an hour, usually its more like $.25-.50 an hour. If the company makes a profit every employee gets half a percent of the profit as a bonus. I'd say its a pretty good company, and employees get good pay and benefits.
One of the most humorous things I get to see regularly in downtown Dallas are the picket lines run by one of the local unions (I think it's the carpenters - it's always over who's hanging drywall). These Union picket lines are "manned" by homeless folks straight out of the shelters, getting paid a couple bucks a day for doing the picketing. Non-union folk picketing on behalf of union folk, against non-union folk! Perhaps they are made honorary union members on the days they are picketing? LOL
quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
I am an area manager, my boss is the owner of the company. Our employess are paid very well, much better than any comparable job in this area (usually min wage). Our starting pay is $12 an hour employees pay 1/3 of the insurance (health and life) premiums and 401K if they elect to do so, the company covers 2/3. Christmas parties and summer picnics are all expense paid by the company. Uniforms are provided free to employees and the company pays for them to be cleaned. Hourly employees with no disciplinary actions gets a pay raise every 6 months, minimum of $.05 an hour, usually its more like $.25-.50 an hour. If the company makes a profit every employee gets half a percent of the profit as a bonus. I'd say its a pretty good company, and employees get good pay and benefits.
So why would they want to unionize?, sounds like a boss who takes care of his employees who want to work.
quote:Originally posted by UNIVERSITY50
2011 U.S.A. These Unions are ruining our county, we must get rid of them!
1932 Germany These Jews are ruining our county, We must get rid of them!
I do not see much differents in your views! It was all done with the betterment of the "Nation" in mind! All you people are doing is subsituteing Union for Jew. History will repete itself because we never learn from it.
You have to blame someone, it is easy to go after less the 10% of the work force in the U.S.A. then fix the problems. But it makes you feel better so I guess it has to be right!
Puhleez! I could just as easily say: Asprin tastes bitter, and cyanide tablets taste bitter, therefor asprin is deadly.
quote:Originally posted by UNIVERSITY50
I have been a Union member for 25 years and our Union has never promoted socialism. I am glad you are the all seeing, all knowing, wizard of Socialism! I hope you are firing up the ovens for us 10%. God forbid some would have different views then yours and support them as you support yours, but under your plan the 1st Adm. would be the first thing to go. My way or the highway, should be the Tea Party Motto, if in fact this is how all the tea baggers think.
In red is all one needs to read to know that emotion runs rampant in your mind and logic is not allowed to visit.
quote:Originally posted by SCOUT5
quote:Originally posted by the middle
Well Scouts, who wrote that check?????
I have many other things to do besides sit on my computer, today I worked, 12 hours in fact. I got paid well for it, and I am not in a union.
I see the truth is going to mean little to you. Our Tea Party group started with effort and some self paid ads in the local rags to let people know we were there. We got an amazing response. It doesn't take money to do most of what we do. There is not a national Tea Party directing our movement. There is a loose afiliation with other groups. The media keeps thrying to place someone as our national leaders, I guess you buy into that.
Yes we raised our own money, mostly out of our own pockets. What you choose to believe is obviously up to you. Our budget isn't very large really. Again believe what you want. No one wrote us a check to get started, do you understand, NO ONE. Oh that's right, you didn't want me to tell you the truth, it doesn't fit what you wish to believe. I respond simply because I want other readers to know the truth.
The voters of this country will teach the unions some hard lessons if the unions continue to try shoving socialism down our throats by supporting POS socialist like BHO. I have made an honest attempt to relay that point without insulting or getting hostile. If you take my opinion as insulting so be it. There is a very strong drive to move this country to socialism and the unions as a whole are a major force, the hammer if you will, pushing in that direction. If that insults you, fine, it is your mind doing the processing.
When I said we will change them, did you think I meant? I meant the American people, those of us who still believe in liberty, personal freedom, and personal free enterprise. You know, the things unions don't believe in, if they believed in them they would support them instead of POS socialist like BHO and others of his ilk. Actions speak, when the union's actions promote socialism that is all the proof needed to understand their beliefs.
If this goes to the street are the unions going to arm themselves and fight for the imperial power they so much admire or are they going to fight for liberty and personal freedom? What are you going to do? I suggested and am lobbying for an alternative, seems you are not interested in that.
Dead nuts on! Very well put......
My local Tea Party, the non-party-party is a loose group of people embracing values and principles; I agree with them so I do what I can to help. Our first victory was getting an incumbent (D) congressman who refused to listen to the voice of the people and voted for Obamacare booted out of office.
New Jersey: Communications Workers of America "Sickout" Stranded 174 Developmentally Disabled Clients, Including Dialysis Patients
without comments
Among them critically ill patients waiting to be taken to their dialysis appointments. That smooth move should garner boat loads of sympathy for their fight.
FREEHOLD - Monmouth County transportation employees staged a sickout Friday that left 174 developmentally disabled clients waiting for a bus that never came and county officials scrambling to get critically ill patients to their dialysis appointments.
William K. Heine, a county spokesman, confirmed that two-thirds of workers did not come to work. Of those 25 workers, eight had a pre-approved day off. The others - 14 bus drivers and three office workers - called in sick.
The county was able to fall back on contracted bus companies to get clients to medical appointments and others to work. But they had to cancel trips to rehabilitation and vocational centers. "The county had no choice," Heine said.
..
Kevin Tauro, president of Communications Workers of America Local 1038, which represents the SCAT employees, could not be reached for comment.
Joan Skudera said her son David, a developmentally disabled man who lives in a group home in Tinton Falls, waited more than an hour for his regular SCAT bus to take him to the Arc of Monmouth County's Work Opportunity Center in Long Branch.
When the group home manager informed her that her son's bus never came, Skudera called the county office to inquire what happened to the driver. Skudera said when she was told about the sickout, she assumed it was linked to the solidarity movement behind unionized workers in Wisconsin whose collective-bargaining rights are at risk.
There was also a rally at the Statehouse in Trenton attended by thousands of union workers. The rally was billed as "The Unity Rally for Wisconsin Workers." Wisconsin's governor wants to eliminate most collective bargaining rights for public workers. >>>
New Jersey: Communications Workers of America "Sickout" Stranded 174 Developmentally Disabled Clients, Including Dialysis Patients
without comments
Among them critically ill patients waiting to be taken to their dialysis appointments. That smooth move should garner boat loads of sympathy for their fight.
FREEHOLD - Monmouth County transportation employees staged a sickout Friday that left 174 developmentally disabled clients waiting for a bus that never came and county officials scrambling to get critically ill patients to their dialysis appointments.
William K. Heine, a county spokesman, confirmed that two-thirds of workers did not come to work. Of those 25 workers, eight had a pre-approved day off. The others - 14 bus drivers and three office workers - called in sick.
The county was able to fall back on contracted bus companies to get clients to medical appointments and others to work. But they had to cancel trips to rehabilitation and vocational centers. "The county had no choice," Heine said.
..
Kevin Tauro, president of Communications Workers of America Local 1038, which represents the SCAT employees, could not be reached for comment.
Joan Skudera said her son David, a developmentally disabled man who lives in a group home in Tinton Falls, waited more than an hour for his regular SCAT bus to take him to the Arc of Monmouth County's Work Opportunity Center in Long Branch.
When the group home manager informed her that her son's bus never came, Skudera called the county office to inquire what happened to the driver. Skudera said when she was told about the sickout, she assumed it was linked to the solidarity movement behind unionized workers in Wisconsin whose collective-bargaining rights are at risk.
There was also a rally at the Statehouse in Trenton attended by thousands of union workers. The rally was billed as "The Unity Rally for Wisconsin Workers." Wisconsin's governor wants to eliminate most collective bargaining rights for public workers. >>>
It appears that you confuse "ruining" with "running". I suppose this is to be expected given the general level of education in today's world.
Your mention of of the Jews is interesting and your verbiage correct at least in the context used. Hitler needed a scapegoat and led the German people to believe the Jews were ruining the country.
I'm more interested, though, as to why you didn't mention Nazi use of unions toward their goal of National Socialism. (There's that nasty word again.) I would think it more to the point in this discussion because we're far past the need of a scapegoat. After all we're not looking to find a problem as were the Nazis, we already have a really good one!
So perhaps we should now explore the term "running" instead of ruining. "Running" is more appropriate to today's lesson. Quite the opposite of the Nazis who infiltrated unions, the unions here have infiltrated government. The 10% many point out is such a tiny minority is in reality attempting to steal the show. Unions have literally purchased our politicians and inserted themselves into government. And the joke is on us, the taxpayer and the dues-paying union member.
Is there by some chance a lack of understanding on your part of the difference between public and private? Do you not understand the concept of empty coffers, or do you believe that someone else can always be taxed to support your interests? Maybe you just know more than we the unwashed masses. Who knows?
In any case it would appear that you assume most of us to be nationalists. Fact is, I wouldn't be surprised to hear Fascist or Nazi used by your side when describing mine. In fact we're mostly just the opposite.
I, myself, can probably best described as a Constitutional Libertarian. I believe in limited government and a free society under the Constitution. I see those in Minnesota and other states as being a grave threat to the society intended by the founders of this nation. I have no sympathy for them, other than a certain sadness that they're too stupid to see how they're being used. And perhaps even sadder that they're sharpening the knife that will eventually be used to cut their own throats.
Nobody here on my side of the fence is advocating violence nor the abolition of unions. We are, though, advocating the removal of union power from government where it has absolutely no place. If you can't see this, then I can only assume that while you may have a degree, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're educated. And one must remember that educated doesn't always mean intelligent.
You better pick up ahistory book, pal. The nazis didnt infiltrate unions, they destroyed them! The unions were torn in the sides of the nazis. They arrested and threw all the labor leaders into Dachu, were most were killed. While they were doing that they nationalized the unions funds, since they were being used to fund other political partys, and rolled all union members into the national labor front, under Robert Ley (who was hung after the war!)
all this was done in one day!
You are way wrong also about labor unions in soviet russia, they were taken over by the commies shortly after the reds took power, and were all destroyed before Stalin took power. The unions in the USA are not anything like tose that were in russia, in fact its like compareing a apple to a dich washer, nothing alike but the name "union"! Same with you stupid definition of "collective bargining" and 'collectiveist"...again apples and dish washers.
Too different ideas completely.
Check your facts before you use history as a referance!
If I tally up the score correctly there are some trends that have begun to appear:
The gulf between unionists and non-unionists is so wide and deep that it probably cannot be bridged. Even when supplied with facts our union friends cannot (or refuse to) comprehend what we're trying to share.
Given the posts above I see a number of union members reconsidering their position with regard to membership. I believe it fair to say that for every post there must many more sharing doubt.
I've noted not a single post where non-union folks had softened their opinion and were moving toward the union side. Truthfully, after reading some of the pro-union propaganda, I can understand. They have no convincing argument when their bluff is called.
Perhaps most important is that I've noted not one call for the abolition of unions from any of us. From some of our pro-union friends it would seem that each opposing post called for such. All I see are calls for reform. Did I miss something?
Last and perhaps most humorous is the twisted language used by those on the left. The moment their cause is criticized the Jews and Nazis are brought up and we're labeled as Fascists or Nazis. Somehow they miss that the Nazi Party was more formally known as the National Socialist Party.
Certainly the Nazis were anti-communist and maybe that's the point of confusion on the left, but National Socialist says it all. Either system (Russian or German) took the path of socialism. They merely did it in a slightly different manner.
Interesting about how words can be twisted to suite their cause while totally ignoring historical facts.
unions suck! they scam their people out of their wages and poorly represent and protect them. they force jobs overseas by making labor illogical. they keep bad cops and stupid teachers at their position with red tape and lies.
bleen the unions.
if you are a union member. you a willfully playing with communism.
quote:Originally posted by nord
If I tally up the score correctly there are some trends that have begun to appear:
The gulf between unionists and non-unionists is so wide and deep that it probably cannot be bridged. Even when supplied with facts our union friends cannot (or refuse to) comprehend what we're trying to share.
Given the posts above I see a number of union members reconsidering their position with regard to membership. I believe it fair to say that for every post there must many more sharing doubt.
I've noted not a single post where non-union folks had softened their opinion and were moving toward the union side. Truthfully, after reading some of the pro-union propaganda, I can understand. They have no convincing argument when their bluff is called.
Perhaps most important is that I've noted not one call for the abolition of unions from any of us. From some of our pro-union friends it would seem that each opposing post called for such. All I see are calls for reform. Did I miss something?
Last and perhaps most humorous is the twisted language used by those on the left. The moment their cause is criticized the Jews and Nazis are brought up and we're labeled as Fascists or Nazis. Somehow they miss that the Nazi Party was more formally known as the National Socialist Party.
Certainly the Nazis were anti-communist and maybe that's the point of confusion on the left, but National Socialist says it all. Either system (Russian or German) took the path of socialism. They merely did it in a slightly different manner.
Interesting about how words can be twisted to suite their cause while totally ignoring historical facts.
Again buddy, check your facts!! These was nothing, nothing at all in nazis that were socialist, except the name!! Hilter killed all the socialist in the nazi ranks during the night of the long knives. They were against his adgenda.
You unwittingly made my point. You will note that I stated that the Nazis infiltrated the unions. They did! Communist-leaning unions were destroyed. The Nazis became the union! If you'll look back on my comments you'll see that I opined the reverse here in the US. Some unions are attempting to become government. So I thank you for your observant comments.
When it comes to Russia there are many similarities to the Nazis. Unions controlled by government are stock in trade for communists. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I never saw a mass exodus from the US to the workers paradise of the Soviet Union. Maybe I missed it.
You seem to be unable to grasp the concept of a free people willingly putting on the yoke of slavery. Again, if one plays with words correctly it's possible to state that voluntary slavery is freedom and mediocrity success.
Please continue to delude yourself if you wish and accept my thanks. Your posts make my point very nicely.
Comments
I say this as a retiree from a 100% Unionized American Maritime Career of over 35 years. As noted by another poster, Unions, (MY UNION AMONG THEM) have participated in Killing an Industry. All I now live on is the result of my Union, yet I can say with absolute certainty (Because I lived it) that Unions protect the Least among them, the rum-dummies, the malfeasors, the mentally weak or incompetent. A person who continued his education was paid no more than the Least capable worker in the same position. People were dispatched to jobs they were unqualified for. Damages were blamed on the Employer. Injuries caused by stupidity were almost always blamed on an Employer's providing an "Unsafe Workplace".
They seldom go to the Employer and say: "We have found a better way to do the job, with less people", Instead, when the Employer says we have a New automated process that does the same process we formerly used Sixteen workers for, and does it faster, (with less rework) using only Four workers", and finds the Union willing. Instead, the Union Relies on "Past Practice" and Retraining requirements, Restrictive "Work Rules", and Featherbedding (look it up).
I worked during the period of the Computer Revolution (1970-2003), and time after time, any attempt to modernize was resisted or Struck by the Unions.
When I entered The Industry, there were over 1000 U.S. Flagged Ships, and America could support itself delivering Goods and Supplies to and From the Country. Now, there are Less Than 400 ships Flying the U.S. Flag, and when we need to move Materiel and Supplies to support a Military effort, we have to Contract with Shipping Companies whose own Captains will Load the Cargo, and then Refuse to deliver them, because they are for a "War"! If All-Out World War is declared, we can GUARANTEE we will suffer greatly, as there are not enough U.S. Bottoms to deliver the goods!
I have been successful at both non-union and union jobs, but I prefer a union shop because it takes care of the problems that non-union shops have like favoriteism and brown noseing. We have a fair system the decides who works overtime in a union shop. Never had that in non-union. Are unions for everyone? No. But if you dont like unions dont join one! This is how unions have changed, and will contine to change with the times. The old sterotype about the union "boss" is also wrong. We vote for our leaders, and anyone can run of union office. We can see the books anytime we want, to see were they are spending our dues money. Its all out in the open. Nom one tells me how to vote in government elections either, they just provide a list of canidates with there stands on the issues and encourage us to vote, but dont tell us who to vote for. We have a great job and we know it. We work hard to make sure the company makes money, and not just so we can get a bigger bonus (which helps!) but so we know we'll have that we get to keep that job!
By the way, Im the junior man on my crew, just so you know.
the Earps and Doc Holiday and friends a union likewise standing for a good cause granted it was a movie but to me it's a example of good unions and bad unions
unions are only as good or bad as the people are made up of just like a church or any other union or group
just what I believe I know this ain't no movie so please no one throw that at me
Nord, and Scout5, you have saved me a Hatful of typing! Thanks for taking on the discussion!
I say this as a retiree from a 100% Unionized American Maritime Career of over 35 years. As noted by another poster, Unions, (MY UNION AMONG THEM) have participated in Killing an Industry. All I now live on is the result of my Union, yet I can say with absolute certainty (Because I lived it) that Unions protect the Least among them, the rum-dummies, the malfeasors, the mentally weak or incompetent. A person who continued his education was paid no more than the Least capable worker in the same position. People were dispatched to jobs they were unqualified for. Damages were blamed on the Employer. Injuries caused by stupidity were almost always blamed on an Employer's providing an "Unsafe Workplace".
They seldom go to the Employer and say: "We have found a better way to do the job, with less people", Instead, when the Employer says we have a New automated process that does the same process we formerly used Sixteen workers for, and does it faster, (with less rework) using only Four workers", and finds the Union willing. Instead, the Union Relies on "Past Practice" and Retraining requirements, Restrictive "Work Rules", and Featherbedding (look it up).
I worked during the period of the Computer Revolution (1970-2003), and time after time, any attempt to modernize was resisted or Struck by the Unions.
When I entered The Industry, there were over 1000 U.S. Flagged Ships, and America could support itself delivering Goods and Supplies to and From the Country. Now, there are Less Than 400 ships Flying the U.S. Flag, and when we need to move Materiel and Supplies to support a Military effort, we have to Contract with Shipping Companies whose own Captains will Load the Cargo, and then Refuse to deliver them, because they are for a "War"! If All-Out World War is declared, we can GUARANTEE we will suffer greatly, as there are not enough U.S. Bottoms to deliver the goods!
People were dispatched to jobs they were unqualified for.
How was that the unions fault??? managment directs the workforce.
400 us flagged ships has a lot more to do with US taxes and regulations than the unions.
Like Ive said else were some unions are better than others, and some change with the times and others(UAW) learn too late.
union is not a group of people standing together?
Were talking about a different kind of union. The kind where workers are forced to pay big dues to a gang of thugs who use the money to form the communist wing of the Democratic Party. While destroying the company and pretending to help the workers. That kind.
This is really getting funny!
union is not a group of people standing together?
Yeah, waiting for a lightningbolt.[:D]
Look at GM to see how good the Union is running there. Talk about employees that are slugs. Check out all their benefits to see why GM had to do the bankruptcy thing. Also, the Union would NOT budge to give up anything even when they knew that the Company could possibly close the doors.
I've worked in a Union shop (IAM) and all the Union did was protect the lazy workers. Seniority rules even in your day to day job. Low man gets all the crap to do while your "senior" union brothers sit by and watch. Don't ever tell me how great Unions are.
Remember when the UAW would strike the big three in rotation? so as not to disrupt the industry. They had no real issues of redress. Just squeezing for more pay.
quote:Originally posted by c133
Look at GM to see how good the Union is running there. Talk about employees that are slugs. Check out all their benefits to see why GM had to do the bankruptcy thing. Also, the Union would NOT budge to give up anything even when they knew that the Company could possibly close the doors.
I've worked in a Union shop (IAM) and all the Union did was protect the lazy workers. Seniority rules even in your day to day job. Low man gets all the crap to do while your "senior" union brothers sit by and watch. Don't ever tell me how great Unions are.
Remember when the UAW would strike the big three in rotation? so as not to disrupt the industry. They had no real issues of redress. Just squeezing for more pay.
The UAW is a good example of a union that refused to change with the times and roll with the punches. They, and big three managment failed to realize that what worked in 1985, doesnt work in 2008, and both sides lost.
Like I said there are goods unions, bad unions, and stupid unions....UAW was a stupid one!
Like I said there are goods unions, bad unions, and stupid unions. exactly what the middle said people with good intentions and people with bad intentions
Exactly, same as with everything else.
There are many kinds of unions as has been stated.
Civil Unions
Credit Unions
Labor Unions
Trade Unions
And even just plain unions. (As in iron pipe or PVC.)
And for all I know the local Elks could be considered a union.
There is absolutely nothing evil about a union as by definition a union brings things or people together. A number of contributors here, though, seem to be getting a bit confused about unions and two additional terms. Collective and Bargaining.
The reason I've come to this conclusion is that some seem not to understand that the minute a union focuses on COLLECTIVE BARGAINING said union at once becomes a socialist entity.
Consider "Collectives" in the old Soviet Union. They were supposed to level the field for all workers... And they did! Everyone became poor. There existed no incentive for anyone to perform better than the worst. So the Collectives had very many doing very little and very poorly. This is a paradise where everyone is just a little hungry and there's not quite enough heat in the winter, and your shoes aren't any worse than those of your neighbor? And, worse yet, there's no hope for better!
Ever hear of "No Child Left Behind"? This is a collectivist theory applied in our schools. After all, we must be politically correct. And the result is exactly the same as in the Russian Collectives! The bar is set so low that everyone does nothing. Collectivism insures an equal reward for everyone. (Not that the reward is worth anything.) It also insures that there will exist no incentive to better oneself. All in all a system that guarantees failure... OF EVERYONE!
I have no fight with those of you who point out the possibility of corporate abuse of employees. Certainly nobody deserves to be abused. Unions helped to largely eliminate this and we should all respect their accomplishments. Abusive activities need to be curtailed.
The problem is that unions have now in many instances exceeded their primary directive. Unions today are about power and politics. Don't for a minute believe that some unions are there for the benefit of members. It's really the other way around. If you don't believe me, then just look at union management. Look at their life styles and salaries. Compare them to your own as some of you seem so good at doing. Don't be blind.
And after you've honestly looked, I ask that we once again to go back to the old Soviet Union. Not everyone was poor. Not everyone was equal. Not everyone had the same bleak future. There were always a few that lived above the masses. How could this have been?
Explain to me just how a privileged few got where they did. It didn't have anything to do with power and politics, did it? It didn't have anything to do with equality only meaning that the poor were equally poor, did it? Was there something else?
I ask this because many of you who constantly complain about our class system (poor, middle class, and rich) somehow believe that unions are the key to a classless society. Equality if you will. My fear is that if you succeed in your goal of "equality" you'll eliminate but one class... The middle class.
And that, gentlemen, will leave only the rich and the poor. Old Vlad and Karl would be so very pleased. Carry on!
I am a member of the IBEW and I was not a member when I started working at my job but after learning that the IBEW was a big part of the safety programs we have now working with high voltage electricity I decided to join in and pay my dues
I guess I am questioning whether I should not be a part of such a sorry group but I know they have helped greatly in the past so I pay my part(dues) it is my chose to stay or leave the brotherhood as I am in a right to work state
I hope you realize that I'm not attempting to get you or anyone else to join or leave a union because of what I believe or say. I am, however, asking folks to take off their blinders and learn to see what's being shoved at them. It appears that you're doing so.
So... Look and learn. Then decide based upon what you've learned. Just remember that even the devil is capable of good deeds when it suits his purposes.
quote:Originally posted by SCOUT5
quote:Originally posted by the middle
Well Scouts, who wrote that check?????
I have many other things to do besides sit on my computer, today I worked, 12 hours in fact. I got paid well for it, and I am not in a union.
I see the truth is going to mean little to you. Our Tea Party group started with effort and some self paid ads in the local rags to let people know we were there. We got an amazing response. It doesn't take money to do most of what we do. There is not a national Tea Party directing our movement. There is a loose afiliation with other groups. The media keeps thrying to place someone as our national leaders, I guess you buy into that.
Yes we raised our own money, mostly out of our own pockets. What you choose to believe is obviously up to you. Our budget isn't very large really. Again believe what you want. No one wrote us a check to get started, do you understand, NO ONE. Oh that's right, you didn't want me to tell you the truth, it doesn't fit what you wish to believe. I respond simply because I want other readers to know the truth.
The voters of this country will teach the unions some hard lessons if the unions continue to try shoving socialism down our throats by supporting POS socialist like BHO. I have made an honest attempt to relay that point without insulting or getting hostile. If you take my opinion as insulting so be it. There is a very strong drive to move this country to socialism and the unions as a whole are a major force, the hammer if you will, pushing in that direction. If that insults you, fine, it is your mind doing the processing.
When I said we will change them, did you think I meant? I meant the American people, those of us who still believe in liberty, personal freedom, and personal free enterprise. You know, the things unions don't believe in, if they believed in them they would support them instead of POS socialist like BHO and others of his ilk. Actions speak, when the union's actions promote socialism that is all the proof needed to understand their beliefs.
If this goes to the street are the unions going to arm themselves and fight for the imperial power they so much admire or are they going to fight for liberty and personal freedom? What are you going to do? I suggested and am lobbying for an alternative, seems you are not interested in that.
I knew you wouldnt tell the truth! You dont go from nothing to have a "tea party" in every little county and town in the nation overnight without extreme amount of cash....enter the Koch brothers....
for your reading pleasure...I pull back the curtain......
Peter Fenn
Tea Party Funding Koch Brothers Emerge From Anonymity
By Peter Fenn
Posted: February 2, 2011
Print
Few in America had heard about the third-richest Americans, brothers David and Charles Koch, until just recently. Aside from David Koch's gifts to the Lincoln Center in New York and the naming of a theater after him, few outside a small, elite circle would recognize the name or know how to pronounce it. ("Koch" as in "coke")
For decades, they were under the radar. They and their father had amassed an incredible fortune, mainly in the oil business. Their privately held company revenues last year were estimated at $100 billion. Each brother is worth $21.5 billion. That is a very big "B" in both cases.
For many years, they have been involved in politics but not terribly open or transparent about it. It is true that David Koch ran as vice president on the 1980 Libertarian ticket, to the right of Ronald Reagan. According to New York Times columnist Frank Rich, "his campaign called for the abolition not just of Social Security, federal regulatory agencies and welfare but also of the FBI, the CIA, and public schools." Since the Libertarian party's 1 percent showing in 1980, David Koch has very much been behind the scenes, until now. [See who donates the most to your member of Congress.]
Jane Mayer, of The New Yorker, in her 10,000 word piece last August, peeled the cover off the onion of the Koch brothers' empire. And she focused not only on their personal wealth and family, but on their political empire building.
It was not, and is not, easy to get the details on the extent of their tentacles. They funnel money through 501c3 tax-exempt foundations, and they give money to other foundations, lobbying organizations, and right wing think tanks. They have PACs; they support candidates. Only a small portion of what they control do they divulge.
But it has now come out how involved they have been in funding Tea Party groups, Americans for Prosperity, FreedomWorks, and Citizens for a Sound Economy ($12 million). [Check out a roundup of political cartoons on the Tea Party.]
We do know, from Mayer's reporting, that the Koch brothers have personally given over $2 million to candidates over the last 12 years, their PAC has contributed $8 million to candidates, and they have spent $50 million on lobbying. The Charles Koch Foundation has given $48 million, and another foundation they control gave $28 million. David Koch's foundation gave more than $120 million. According to Mayer, $196 million dollars in total was distributed in the last 10 years to conservative causes and institutions.
That all, as they say, is not chicken feed, and it begs the question: How in the heck did they stay under the radar for as long as they did?
Part of the reason is that much of what they did was not reportable but, more important, until recently they were not pouring the millions into campaigns through advertising and expenditures allowed due to the Citizens United Supreme Court case. [Read the U.S. News debate: Is the Citizens United decision hurting democracy?]
Now, to the paranoia. These folks would make Richard Nixon's enemies list look tame. This could be a movie akin to George Clooney's Michael Clayton.
This past weekend the Koch brothers hosted a conference in Palm Springs that resembled an armed camp. Private Koch security was everywhere-manning every doorway and stairway within range of the conference. Reporters were confronted by private security guards and told to leave or they would be arrested, and a Common Cause official had his lunch reservation canceled and was told to check out of the hotel by Koch's security detail. Young environmental activists were slapped with $100,000 law suits for demonstrating and engaging in pranks. A Politico reporter describes being thrown out and threatened with "a night in the Riverside County jail."
All this while hiring an army of lawyers, PR flacks, political consultants, and pollsters to protect their "empire." Everywhere there were folks spinning. Even reporters, who had been paid by Koch, attended the conference to "report" on what they "learned." Well, Lord knows they have the money.
My guess is that anonymity will not be the Koch brothers' middle name any longer
n May 17th, a black-tie audience at the Metropolitan Opera House applauded as a tall, jovial-looking billionaire took the stage. It was the seventieth annual spring gala of American Ballet Theatre, and David H. Koch was being celebrated for his generosity as a member of the board of trustees; he had recently donated $2.5 million toward the company's upcoming season, and had given many millions before that. Koch received an award while flanked by two of the gala's co-chairs, Blaine Trump, in a peach-colored gown, and Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg, in emerald green. Kennedy's mother, Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, had been a patron of the ballet and, coincidentally, the previous owner of a Fifth Avenue apartment that Koch had bought, in 1995, and then sold, eleven years later, for thirty-two million dollars, having found it too small.
The gala marked the social ascent of Koch, who, at the age of seventy, has become one of the city's most prominent philanthropists. In 2008, he donated a hundred million dollars to modernize Lincoln Center's New York State Theatre building, which now bears his name. He has given twenty million to the American Museum of Natural History, whose dinosaur wing is named for him. This spring, after noticing the decrepit state of the fountains outside the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Koch pledged at least ten million dollars for their renovation. He is a trustee of the museum, perhaps the most coveted social prize in the city, and serves on the board of Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, where, after he donated more than forty million dollars, an endowed chair and a research center were named for him.
One dignitary was conspicuously absent from the gala: the event's third honorary co-chair, Michelle Obama. Her office said that a scheduling conflict had prevented her from attending. Yet had the First Lady shared the stage with Koch it might have created an awkward tableau. In Washington, Koch is best known as part of a family that has repeatedly funded stealth attacks on the federal government, and on the Obama Administration in particular.
With his brother Charles, who is seventy-four, David Koch owns virtually all of Koch Industries, a conglomerate, headquartered in Wichita, Kansas, whose annual revenues are estimated to be a hundred billion dollars. The company has grown spectacularly since their father, Fred, died, in 1967, and the brothers took charge. The Kochs operate oil refineries in Alaska, Texas, and Minnesota, and control some four thousand miles of pipeline. Koch Industries owns Brawny paper towels, Dixie cups, Georgia-Pacific lumber, Stainmaster carpet, and Lycra, among other products. Forbes ranks it as the second-largest private company in the country, after Cargill, and its consistent profitability has made David and Charles Koch-who, years ago, bought out two other brothers-among the richest men in America. Their combined fortune of thirty-five billion dollars is exceeded only by those of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.
from the issuecartoon banke-mail this.The Kochs are longtime libertarians who believe in drastically lower personal and corporate taxes, minimal social services for the needy, and much less oversight of industry-especially environmental regulation. These views dovetail with the brothers' corporate interests. In a study released this spring, the University of Massachusetts at Amherst's Political Economy Research Institute named Koch Industries one of the top ten air polluters in the United States. And Greenpeace issued a report identifying the company as a "kingpin of climate science denial." The report showed that, from 2005 to 2008, the Kochs vastly outdid ExxonMobil in giving money to organizations fighting legislation related to climate change, underwriting a huge network of foundations, think tanks, and political front groups. Indeed, the brothers have funded opposition campaigns against so many Obama Administration policies-from health-care reform to the economic-stimulus program-that, in political circles, their ideological network is known as the Kochtopus.
In a statement, Koch Industries said that the Greenpeace report "distorts the environmental record of our companies." And David Koch, in a recent, admiring article about him in New York, protested that the "radical press" had turned his family into "whipping boys," and had exaggerated its influence on American politics. But Charles Lewis, the founder of the Center for Public Integrity, a nonpartisan watchdog group, said, "The Kochs are on a whole different level. There's no one else who has spent this much money. The sheer dimension of it is what sets them apart. They have a pattern of lawbreaking, political manipulation, and obfuscation. I've been in Washington since Watergate, and I've never seen anything like it. They are the Standard Oil of our times."
A few weeks after the Lincoln Center gala, the advocacy wing of the Americans for Prosperity Foundation-an organization that David Koch started, in 2004-held a different kind of gathering. Over the July 4th weekend, a summit called Texas Defending the American Dream took place in a chilly hotel ballroom in Austin. Though Koch freely promotes his philanthropic ventures, he did not attend the summit, and his name was not in evidence. And on this occasion the audience was roused not by a dance performance but by a series of speakers denouncing President Barack Obama. Peggy Venable, the organizer of the summit, warned that Administration officials "have a socialist vision for this country."
Five hundred people attended the summit, which served, in part, as a training session for Tea Party activists in Texas. An advertisement cast the event as a populist uprising against vested corporate power. "Today, the voices of average Americans are being drowned out by lobbyists and special interests," it said. "But you can do something about it." The pitch made no mention of its corporate funders. The White House has expressed frustration that such sponsors have largely eluded public notice. David Axelrod, Obama's senior adviser, said, "What they don't say is that, in part, this is a grassroots citizens' movement brought to you by a bunch of oil billionaires."
PHOTOGRAPH: RICHARD SCHULMAN/CORBIS
"Covert .
Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer#ixzz1F9lKmvtM
Again it's obvious you do not care to know the truth. It seems to surprise you that millions of people across this country are willing to donate time, money, footwork, professional resources etc. etc. to promote the cause of liberty and a return to a constitutionally limited government.
Again the Tea Party Movement is operated on a very local level. Again I know where we get our money and where we spend it. Again believe what you will.
As for the Koch brothers. I am glad some people with those type of resource share my beliefs and are willing to use those resources to promote them. What they can do does not come close to the resources the unions use to promote socialism, but it will help a little. If they donate a little money to some Tea Party movements it is welcome, we need all the help we can get. I already stated in another thread we did receive some donations after we had obtained some success. Those donations were less than 2% of what we had spent. We appreciated it but it didn't change what we do or how we operate, and it had nothing to do with getting us started, we were already well beyond started.
You may be real suprised what $20 each from 200 different people will accomplish in advertising when no one is taking a salary out of it. Is that a foreign concept to you, that people will actually donate time and moeny to things they believe in?
You don't get it and it's obvious you are choosing not to. That doesn't change the fact that millions of people are willing to fight for the future of liberty in this country. We do this without the manipulation union members have been exposed to in their fight for socialism. I guess for you it is hard to believe people would donate their resources without being forced to have it taken out of their paychecks disguised as dues.
Oh well, believe What you wish. I do hope if it ever goes to the streets you will fight on the side of liberty and not on the side of the socialist empire.
You are going by the old streotype of how union use to operate. some unions have changed with the times. Years ago, when I started my appenticeship, we were taught that the "business of America was business" and that business was making money. We were told that if we werent productive and make the company money, we wouldnt have a job. If were werent productive, noone would want us, the company or the union. We were also taught that noone wins a strike. There are also ways of getting rid of lazy non-productive POS written into the contract. These rules are written down, open and fair, and have been used. Not to long ago we had a pos on our crew that called off sick constantly, showed up drunk, and wasnt doing his job. The company used the process in the contract to get rid of him. First he was written up and offered help, which he refused. The second time he was given unpaid time off. The third time he was taken before the board and fired (good ridance too). We were taught also by the union that the days of hostility between managment and union were ovwer, cooperation was now the new normal. We havent had a strike in over 30 years, so it works! The only pension I have is one I pay for thru the union, and the company has no ties to it. I get a generous match on my 401k from the company, and no after retirement health care. When I retire I will no ties to the company. They will have no legacy costs from me. Not all unions are like mine, but a lot are.
I have been successful at both non-union and union jobs, but I prefer a union shop because it takes care of the problems that non-union shops have like favoriteism and brown noseing. We have a fair system the decides who works overtime in a union shop. Never had that in non-union. Are unions for everyone? No. But if you dont like unions dont join one! This is how unions have changed, and will contine to change with the times. The old sterotype about the union "boss" is also wrong. We vote for our leaders, and anyone can run of union office. We can see the books anytime we want, to see were they are spending our dues money. Its all out in the open. Nom one tells me how to vote in government elections either, they just provide a list of canidates with there stands on the issues and encourage us to vote, but dont tell us who to vote for. We have a great job and we know it. We work hard to make sure the company makes money, and not just so we can get a bigger bonus (which helps!) but so we know we'll have that we get to keep that job!
By the way, Im the junior man on my crew, just so you know.
As I have stated before, unions can be a good things for both the employees and the company if done correctly. The union has to know what they are offering and what it is worth. The union should promote excellence and productivity in the work force. A good union will take a lot of the load off of the company. For this the company can afford to pay a premium wage to the union members, because the union should be saving the company money in other areas, less material waste, less re-runs, less errors etc. A top producing crew deserves top pay.
You aknowledge not all unions are like this though some are and you claim yours is.
The issue is the unions (in large part) have got in bed with the government and they have been scratching each others backs. I have already posted my opinion on what this has lead to, so I will not re-post it. The American people have had enough of it and it has to change.
1932 Germany These Jews are ruining our county, We must get rid of them!
I do not see much differents in your views! It was all done with the betterment of the "Nation" in mind! All you people are doing is subsituteing Union for Jew. History will repete itself because we never learn from it.
You have to blame someone, it is easy to go after less the 10% of the work force in the U.S.A. then fix the problems. But it makes you feel better so I guess it has to be right!
2011 U.S.A. These Unions are ruining our county, we must get rid of them!
1932 Germany These Jews are ruining our county, We must get rid of them!
I do not see much differents in your views! It was all done with the betterment of the "Nation" in mind! All you people are doing is subsituteing Union for Jew. History will repete itself because we never learn from it.
You have to blame someone, it is easy to go after less the 10% of the work force in the U.S.A. then fix the problems. But it makes you feel better so I guess it has to be right!
10% of the work force collectively throwing their money behind the promotion of socialism is a threat to the country. Care to know the power of 3%?
it does protect the lazy,but there are ways to get rid of the dead wieght.
what the union does for me is,INSURANCE as in if i mess something up
i keep my job.
the plant came to us members an asked to re-set wages to a lower scale.
we said yes.
my folks worked union (post office) had bumper stickers that read.
"work union eat better"
GA is a right to work state,i didnt have to join but i did.
i have the addressed envlope ready to mail an give my book back.
lot of bad an good.
It appears that you confuse "ruining" with "running". I suppose this is to be expected given the general level of education in today's world.
Your mention of of the Jews is interesting and your verbiage correct at least in the context used. Hitler needed a scapegoat and led the German people to believe the Jews were ruining the country.
I'm more interested, though, as to why you didn't mention Nazi use of unions toward their goal of National Socialism. (There's that nasty word again.) I would think it more to the point in this discussion because we're far past the need of a scapegoat. After all we're not looking to find a problem as were the Nazis, we already have a really good one!
So perhaps we should now explore the term "running" instead of ruining. "Running" is more appropriate to today's lesson. Quite the opposite of the Nazis who infiltrated unions, the unions here have infiltrated government. The 10% many point out is such a tiny minority is in reality attempting to steal the show. Unions have literally purchased our politicians and inserted themselves into government. And the joke is on us, the taxpayer and the dues-paying union member.
Is there by some chance a lack of understanding on your part of the difference between public and private? Do you not understand the concept of empty coffers, or do you believe that someone else can always be taxed to support your interests? Maybe you just know more than we the unwashed masses. Who knows?
In any case it would appear that you assume most of us to be nationalists. Fact is, I wouldn't be surprised to hear Fascist or Nazi used by your side when describing mine. In fact we're mostly just the opposite.
I, myself, can probably best described as a Constitutional Libertarian. I believe in limited government and a free society under the Constitution. I see those in Minnesota and other states as being a grave threat to the society intended by the founders of this nation. I have no sympathy for them, other than a certain sadness that they're too stupid to see how they're being used. And perhaps even sadder that they're sharpening the knife that will eventually be used to cut their own throats.
Nobody here on my side of the fence is advocating violence nor the abolition of unions. We are, though, advocating the removal of union power from government where it has absolutely no place. If you can't see this, then I can only assume that while you may have a degree, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're educated. And one must remember that educated doesn't always mean intelligent.
I have talked to the owner of our company about this and he says if anyone unionizes that will be the end of Christmas parties, summer picnics, pay raises, bonuses, free uniforms and cleaning, health and life insurance coverage, and matching 401K. All non management will be reduced to minimum wage until the union members quit. If anyone strikes they will be immediately and permanently replaced and banned from the property. If all else fails he says he'll close and liquidate the business and retire on his yacht.
I completely agree I would rather lose and replace every employee we have than to give ANY concession to a socialist union. My opinion is union members are lazy and ungrateful. Everyone is employed at will which means they can leave or be fired at any time for any reason or no reason at all. Anyone who is unwilling to accept what is offered can go elsewhere. In any company orders come from the top down not the other way around, anyone who tells me what I will pay them, and what benefits I will provide them (collectively or not) is not going have a job very long.
We make it very clear in our employee handbook that we will avoid unionization by all lawful means available.
I have talked to the owner of our company about this and he says if anyone unionizes that will be the end of Christmas parties, summer picnics, pay raises, bonuses, free uniforms and cleaning, health and life insurance coverage, and matching 401K. All non management will be reduced to minimum wage until the union members quit. If anyone strikes they will be immediately and permanently replaced and banned from the property. If all else fails he says he'll close and liquidate the business and retire on his yacht.
WOW!!! I guess you won't be paying any union dues are the employees treated fairly at your company?
which side of the fence do you work management or non-management?
Again I still think the 1st Adm. is still in place and any group or individual can still support who they want. I do not see anyone one in a union try to break up your Tea Party, they may speak out and voice thier feelings, just like you can.
WOW!!! are the employees treated fairly at your company?
Treated like garbage no doubt.
quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
We make it very clear in our employee handbook that we will avoid unionization by all lawful means available.
I have talked to the owner of our company about this and he says if anyone unionizes that will be the end of Christmas parties, summer picnics, pay raises, bonuses, free uniforms and cleaning, health and life insurance coverage, and matching 401K. All non management will be reduced to minimum wage until the union members quit. If anyone strikes they will be immediately and permanently replaced and banned from the property. If all else fails he says he'll close and liquidate the business and retire on his yacht.
WOW!!! I guess you won't be paying any union dues are the employees treated fairly at your company?
which side of the fence do you work management or non-management?
I am an area manager, my boss is the owner of the company. Our employess are paid very well, much better than any comparable job in this area (usually min wage). Our starting pay is $12 an hour employees pay 1/3 of the insurance (health and life) premiums and 401K if they elect to do so, the company covers 2/3. Christmas parties and summer picnics are all expense paid by the company. Uniforms are provided free to employees and the company pays for them to be cleaned. Hourly employees with no disciplinary actions gets a pay raise every 6 months, minimum of $.05 an hour, usually its more like $.25-.50 an hour. If the company makes a profit every employee gets half a percent of the profit as a bonus. I'd say its a pretty good company, and employees get good pay and benefits.
I am an area manager, my boss is the owner of the company. Our employess are paid very well, much better than any comparable job in this area (usually min wage). Our starting pay is $12 an hour employees pay 1/3 of the insurance (health and life) premiums and 401K if they elect to do so, the company covers 2/3. Christmas parties and summer picnics are all expense paid by the company. Uniforms are provided free to employees and the company pays for them to be cleaned. Hourly employees with no disciplinary actions gets a pay raise every 6 months, minimum of $.05 an hour, usually its more like $.25-.50 an hour. If the company makes a profit every employee gets half a percent of the profit as a bonus. I'd say its a pretty good company, and employees get good pay and benefits.
So why would they want to unionize?, sounds like a boss who takes care of his employees who want to work.
2011 U.S.A. These Unions are ruining our county, we must get rid of them!
1932 Germany These Jews are ruining our county, We must get rid of them!
I do not see much differents in your views! It was all done with the betterment of the "Nation" in mind! All you people are doing is subsituteing Union for Jew. History will repete itself because we never learn from it.
You have to blame someone, it is easy to go after less the 10% of the work force in the U.S.A. then fix the problems. But it makes you feel better so I guess it has to be right!
Puhleez! I could just as easily say: Asprin tastes bitter, and cyanide tablets taste bitter, therefor asprin is deadly.
I have been a Union member for 25 years and our Union has never promoted socialism. I am glad you are the all seeing, all knowing, wizard of Socialism! I hope you are firing up the ovens for us 10%. God forbid some would have different views then yours and support them as you support yours, but under your plan the 1st Adm. would be the first thing to go. My way or the highway, should be the Tea Party Motto, if in fact this is how all the tea baggers think.
In red is all one needs to read to know that emotion runs rampant in your mind and logic is not allowed to visit.
quote:Originally posted by the middle
Well Scouts, who wrote that check?????
I have many other things to do besides sit on my computer, today I worked, 12 hours in fact. I got paid well for it, and I am not in a union.
I see the truth is going to mean little to you. Our Tea Party group started with effort and some self paid ads in the local rags to let people know we were there. We got an amazing response. It doesn't take money to do most of what we do. There is not a national Tea Party directing our movement. There is a loose afiliation with other groups. The media keeps thrying to place someone as our national leaders, I guess you buy into that.
Yes we raised our own money, mostly out of our own pockets. What you choose to believe is obviously up to you. Our budget isn't very large really. Again believe what you want. No one wrote us a check to get started, do you understand, NO ONE. Oh that's right, you didn't want me to tell you the truth, it doesn't fit what you wish to believe. I respond simply because I want other readers to know the truth.
The voters of this country will teach the unions some hard lessons if the unions continue to try shoving socialism down our throats by supporting POS socialist like BHO. I have made an honest attempt to relay that point without insulting or getting hostile. If you take my opinion as insulting so be it. There is a very strong drive to move this country to socialism and the unions as a whole are a major force, the hammer if you will, pushing in that direction. If that insults you, fine, it is your mind doing the processing.
When I said we will change them, did you think I meant? I meant the American people, those of us who still believe in liberty, personal freedom, and personal free enterprise. You know, the things unions don't believe in, if they believed in them they would support them instead of POS socialist like BHO and others of his ilk. Actions speak, when the union's actions promote socialism that is all the proof needed to understand their beliefs.
If this goes to the street are the unions going to arm themselves and fight for the imperial power they so much admire or are they going to fight for liberty and personal freedom? What are you going to do? I suggested and am lobbying for an alternative, seems you are not interested in that.
Dead nuts on! Very well put......
My local Tea Party, the non-party-party is a loose group of people embracing values and principles; I agree with them so I do what I can to help. Our first victory was getting an incumbent (D) congressman who refused to listen to the voice of the people and voted for Obamacare booted out of office.
without comments
Among them critically ill patients waiting to be taken to their dialysis appointments. That smooth move should garner boat loads of sympathy for their fight.
FREEHOLD - Monmouth County transportation employees staged a sickout Friday that left 174 developmentally disabled clients waiting for a bus that never came and county officials scrambling to get critically ill patients to their dialysis appointments.
William K. Heine, a county spokesman, confirmed that two-thirds of workers did not come to work. Of those 25 workers, eight had a pre-approved day off. The others - 14 bus drivers and three office workers - called in sick.
The county was able to fall back on contracted bus companies to get clients to medical appointments and others to work. But they had to cancel trips to rehabilitation and vocational centers. "The county had no choice," Heine said.
..
Kevin Tauro, president of Communications Workers of America Local 1038, which represents the SCAT employees, could not be reached for comment.
Joan Skudera said her son David, a developmentally disabled man who lives in a group home in Tinton Falls, waited more than an hour for his regular SCAT bus to take him to the Arc of Monmouth County's Work Opportunity Center in Long Branch.
When the group home manager informed her that her son's bus never came, Skudera called the county office to inquire what happened to the driver. Skudera said when she was told about the sickout, she assumed it was linked to the solidarity movement behind unionized workers in Wisconsin whose collective-bargaining rights are at risk.
There was also a rally at the Statehouse in Trenton attended by thousands of union workers. The rally was billed as "The Unity Rally for Wisconsin Workers." Wisconsin's governor wants to eliminate most collective bargaining rights for public workers. >>>
New Jersey: Communications Workers of America "Sickout" Stranded 174 Developmentally Disabled Clients, Including Dialysis Patients
without comments
Among them critically ill patients waiting to be taken to their dialysis appointments. That smooth move should garner boat loads of sympathy for their fight.
FREEHOLD - Monmouth County transportation employees staged a sickout Friday that left 174 developmentally disabled clients waiting for a bus that never came and county officials scrambling to get critically ill patients to their dialysis appointments.
William K. Heine, a county spokesman, confirmed that two-thirds of workers did not come to work. Of those 25 workers, eight had a pre-approved day off. The others - 14 bus drivers and three office workers - called in sick.
The county was able to fall back on contracted bus companies to get clients to medical appointments and others to work. But they had to cancel trips to rehabilitation and vocational centers. "The county had no choice," Heine said.
..
Kevin Tauro, president of Communications Workers of America Local 1038, which represents the SCAT employees, could not be reached for comment.
Joan Skudera said her son David, a developmentally disabled man who lives in a group home in Tinton Falls, waited more than an hour for his regular SCAT bus to take him to the Arc of Monmouth County's Work Opportunity Center in Long Branch.
When the group home manager informed her that her son's bus never came, Skudera called the county office to inquire what happened to the driver. Skudera said when she was told about the sickout, she assumed it was linked to the solidarity movement behind unionized workers in Wisconsin whose collective-bargaining rights are at risk.
There was also a rally at the Statehouse in Trenton attended by thousands of union workers. The rally was billed as "The Unity Rally for Wisconsin Workers." Wisconsin's governor wants to eliminate most collective bargaining rights for public workers. >>>
New accronym, courtesy of Wyatt Earp:
Truly
Horrible
Union
Goons
University,
It appears that you confuse "ruining" with "running". I suppose this is to be expected given the general level of education in today's world.
Your mention of of the Jews is interesting and your verbiage correct at least in the context used. Hitler needed a scapegoat and led the German people to believe the Jews were ruining the country.
I'm more interested, though, as to why you didn't mention Nazi use of unions toward their goal of National Socialism. (There's that nasty word again.) I would think it more to the point in this discussion because we're far past the need of a scapegoat. After all we're not looking to find a problem as were the Nazis, we already have a really good one!
So perhaps we should now explore the term "running" instead of ruining. "Running" is more appropriate to today's lesson. Quite the opposite of the Nazis who infiltrated unions, the unions here have infiltrated government. The 10% many point out is such a tiny minority is in reality attempting to steal the show. Unions have literally purchased our politicians and inserted themselves into government. And the joke is on us, the taxpayer and the dues-paying union member.
Is there by some chance a lack of understanding on your part of the difference between public and private? Do you not understand the concept of empty coffers, or do you believe that someone else can always be taxed to support your interests? Maybe you just know more than we the unwashed masses. Who knows?
In any case it would appear that you assume most of us to be nationalists. Fact is, I wouldn't be surprised to hear Fascist or Nazi used by your side when describing mine. In fact we're mostly just the opposite.
I, myself, can probably best described as a Constitutional Libertarian. I believe in limited government and a free society under the Constitution. I see those in Minnesota and other states as being a grave threat to the society intended by the founders of this nation. I have no sympathy for them, other than a certain sadness that they're too stupid to see how they're being used. And perhaps even sadder that they're sharpening the knife that will eventually be used to cut their own throats.
Nobody here on my side of the fence is advocating violence nor the abolition of unions. We are, though, advocating the removal of union power from government where it has absolutely no place. If you can't see this, then I can only assume that while you may have a degree, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're educated. And one must remember that educated doesn't always mean intelligent.
You better pick up ahistory book, pal. The nazis didnt infiltrate unions, they destroyed them! The unions were torn in the sides of the nazis. They arrested and threw all the labor leaders into Dachu, were most were killed. While they were doing that they nationalized the unions funds, since they were being used to fund other political partys, and rolled all union members into the national labor front, under Robert Ley (who was hung after the war!)
all this was done in one day!
You are way wrong also about labor unions in soviet russia, they were taken over by the commies shortly after the reds took power, and were all destroyed before Stalin took power. The unions in the USA are not anything like tose that were in russia, in fact its like compareing a apple to a dich washer, nothing alike but the name "union"! Same with you stupid definition of "collective bargining" and 'collectiveist"...again apples and dish washers.
Too different ideas completely.
Check your facts before you use history as a referance!
The gulf between unionists and non-unionists is so wide and deep that it probably cannot be bridged. Even when supplied with facts our union friends cannot (or refuse to) comprehend what we're trying to share.
Given the posts above I see a number of union members reconsidering their position with regard to membership. I believe it fair to say that for every post there must many more sharing doubt.
I've noted not a single post where non-union folks had softened their opinion and were moving toward the union side. Truthfully, after reading some of the pro-union propaganda, I can understand. They have no convincing argument when their bluff is called.
Perhaps most important is that I've noted not one call for the abolition of unions from any of us. From some of our pro-union friends it would seem that each opposing post called for such. All I see are calls for reform. Did I miss something?
Last and perhaps most humorous is the twisted language used by those on the left. The moment their cause is criticized the Jews and Nazis are brought up and we're labeled as Fascists or Nazis. Somehow they miss that the Nazi Party was more formally known as the National Socialist Party.
Certainly the Nazis were anti-communist and maybe that's the point of confusion on the left, but National Socialist says it all. Either system (Russian or German) took the path of socialism. They merely did it in a slightly different manner.
Interesting about how words can be twisted to suite their cause while totally ignoring historical facts.
bleen the unions.
if you are a union member. you a willfully playing with communism.
If I tally up the score correctly there are some trends that have begun to appear:
The gulf between unionists and non-unionists is so wide and deep that it probably cannot be bridged. Even when supplied with facts our union friends cannot (or refuse to) comprehend what we're trying to share.
Given the posts above I see a number of union members reconsidering their position with regard to membership. I believe it fair to say that for every post there must many more sharing doubt.
I've noted not a single post where non-union folks had softened their opinion and were moving toward the union side. Truthfully, after reading some of the pro-union propaganda, I can understand. They have no convincing argument when their bluff is called.
Perhaps most important is that I've noted not one call for the abolition of unions from any of us. From some of our pro-union friends it would seem that each opposing post called for such. All I see are calls for reform. Did I miss something?
Last and perhaps most humorous is the twisted language used by those on the left. The moment their cause is criticized the Jews and Nazis are brought up and we're labeled as Fascists or Nazis. Somehow they miss that the Nazi Party was more formally known as the National Socialist Party.
Certainly the Nazis were anti-communist and maybe that's the point of confusion on the left, but National Socialist says it all. Either system (Russian or German) took the path of socialism. They merely did it in a slightly different manner.
Interesting about how words can be twisted to suite their cause while totally ignoring historical facts.
Again buddy, check your facts!! These was nothing, nothing at all in nazis that were socialist, except the name!! Hilter killed all the socialist in the nazi ranks during the night of the long knives. They were against his adgenda.
You unwittingly made my point. You will note that I stated that the Nazis infiltrated the unions. They did! Communist-leaning unions were destroyed. The Nazis became the union! If you'll look back on my comments you'll see that I opined the reverse here in the US. Some unions are attempting to become government. So I thank you for your observant comments.
When it comes to Russia there are many similarities to the Nazis. Unions controlled by government are stock in trade for communists. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I never saw a mass exodus from the US to the workers paradise of the Soviet Union. Maybe I missed it.
You seem to be unable to grasp the concept of a free people willingly putting on the yoke of slavery. Again, if one plays with words correctly it's possible to state that voluntary slavery is freedom and mediocrity success.
Please continue to delude yourself if you wish and accept my thanks. Your posts make my point very nicely.
Carry on!