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Actually the box being cracked like it got pinned against the corner of something and pressed on both sides is pretty typical of a belt jam. How much experience do you have working in a small sort system that moves 80-90k packages a night? Since you seem to be such an expert.
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
Actually the box being cracked like it got pinned against the corner of something and pressed on both sides is pretty typical of a belt jam. How much experience do you have working in a small sort system that moves 80-90k packages a night? Since you seem to be such an expert.
This makes perfectly good sense to me after viewing the box.
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
I'm not convinced that it was the carrier's fault. It would be difficult to break a stock without having severe damage to the shipping carton. I'd like to see the carton & the packing materials used. Then, there's always the possibility that the shipping clerk at Cabela's dropped the rifle & figured he'd ship it anyway.
I've received several rifles that had the barrel poking out of the end of the carton; these have all been poorly packed. OTOH, when I ship a long gun, I pack them with the goal of surviving a 6' drop, & never had a problem.
quote:Originally posted by Waco Waltz
ON the other hand a belt jam, something I've never heard of or seen the equipment this can happen on sounds plausable.
Last rifle I shipped was two guns for repair to century and I broke both rifles down so the box did not even look like a gun box. It was more economical to ship two guns in a smaller box and it also took attention away from those looking for gun boxes to steal.
NO belt jam shape to the box either.Wow, the irony of your expressed belief in the belt jam conspiracy is quite telling.
So, if I understand this correctly, you have no doubt that the US Gov attacked America on 9/11, but believe this man's rifle was smashed in half due to some sorting error?
How do you sort out that dichotomy of reason within yourself?
And had the packaging been more rigid than what was inside of it, it would have withstood a belt jam, instead the rifle was the sturdiest part of that entire shipment so it took the brunt of the abuse.
Look I understand you're upset because your gun was damaged, I would be too, but you need to place blame on those who packaged it. Saying that a company would intentionally damage shipments makes you look like a fool.
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
And had the packaging been more rigid that what was inside of it, it would have withstood a belt jam, instead the rifle was the sturdiest part of that entire shipment so it took the brunt of the abuse.
Look I understand you're upset because your gun was damaged, I would be too, but you need to place blame on those who packaged it. Saying that a company would intentionally damage shipments makes you look like a fool.
So, if I understand this correctly, the Fed-Ex sorter is basically a member of the same family as a car crusher and he should accept this as a fault of a well-intentioned FFL who should have packed the rifle in a kevlar encasement and provided for a two-person escort team?
quote:Originally posted by Night Stalker
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
And had the packaging been more rigid that what was inside of it, it would have withstood a belt jam, instead the rifle was the sturdiest part of that entire shipment so it took the brunt of the abuse.
Look I understand you're upset because your gun was damaged, I would be too, but you need to place blame on those who packaged it. Saying that a company would intentionally damage shipments makes you look like a fool.
So, if I understand this correctly, the Fed-Ex sorter is basically a member of the same family as a car crusher and he should accept this as a fault of a well-intentioned FFL who should have packed the rifle in a kevlar encasement and provided for a two-person escort team?
NS
No, simply FedEx, or any shipping company for that matter, does not intentionally destroy peoples shipments. Fedex spends millions helping customers design packaging and testing their current packaging to prevent damages. This should have been packaged in a sturdier box, if not a hard case, it is blatantly poor packaging, and an automated sort system does not damage packages that are properly packaged.
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
quote:Originally posted by Night Stalker
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
And had the packaging been more rigid that what was inside of it, it would have withstood a belt jam, instead the rifle was the sturdiest part of that entire shipment so it took the brunt of the abuse.
Look I understand you're upset because your gun was damaged, I would be too, but you need to place blame on those who packaged it. Saying that a company would intentionally damage shipments makes you look like a fool.
So, if I understand this correctly, the Fed-Ex sorter is basically a member of the same family as a car crusher and he should accept this as a fault of a well-intentioned FFL who should have packed the rifle in a kevlar encasement and provided for a two-person escort team?
NS
No, simply FedEx, or any shipping company for that matter, does not intentionally destroy peoples shipments. Fedex spends millions helping customers design packaging and testing their current packaging to prevent damages. This should have been packaged in a sturdier box, if not a hard case, it is blatantly poor packaging, and an automated sort system does not damage packages that are properly packaged.
Fair enough... you clearly have a past related to this matter and I do not.
I would never have imagined a sorting conveyor would be that strong.
quote:Originally posted by Night Stalker
quote:Originally posted by Waco Waltz
ON the other hand a belt jam, something I've never heard of or seen the equipment this can happen on sounds plausable.
Last rifle I shipped was two guns for repair to century and I broke both rifles down so the box did not even look like a gun box. It was more economical to ship two guns in a smaller box and it also took attention away from those looking for gun boxes to steal.
NO belt jam shape to the box either.Wow, the irony of your expressed belief in the belt jam conspiracy is quite telling.
So, if I understand this correctly, you have no doubt that the US Gov attacked America on 9/11, but believe this man's rifle was smashed in half due to some sorting error?
How do you sort out that dichotomy of reason within yourself?
Fascinating.
NS
Poor form Night stalker. Just poor form. Highjacking this thread is rude so I won't respond to the bait. Go get it cleared with the mods then post the question in a new thread.[V]
So what I've learned so far from this thread is the conveyor belt jams and can break a rifle but not if it's properly packaged. And proper packaging is a hard rifle case? And the industry standard is a gun box made of card board.
That shipping companies are not purposly breaking guns and there is no chance rouge employees are doing it on purpose either.
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
quote:Originally posted by Night Stalker
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
And had the packaging been more rigid that what was inside of it, it would have withstood a belt jam, instead the rifle was the sturdiest part of that entire shipment so it took the brunt of the abuse.
Look I understand you're upset because your gun was damaged, I would be too, but you need to place blame on those who packaged it. Saying that a company would intentionally damage shipments makes you look like a fool.
So, if I understand this correctly, the Fed-Ex sorter is basically a member of the same family as a car crusher and he should accept this as a fault of a well-intentioned FFL who should have packed the rifle in a kevlar encasement and provided for a two-person escort team?
NS
No, simply FedEx, or any shipping company for that matter, does not intentionally destroy peoples shipments. Fedex spends millions helping customers design packaging and testing their current packaging to prevent damages. This should have been packaged in a sturdier box, if not a hard case, it is blatantly poor packaging, and an automated sort system does not damage packages that are properly packaged.
Fed Ex's sorting conveyors are not near strong enough to break a stock. They also don't go around corners. They go straight from table up/down said conveyor belt to another sorting table or t/from their trucks.
It is my opinion that this kind of break was done by an individual who does not adhere to company policies. However, often as not things are moving too fast for Fed-Ex to find the actual errant/miscreant employee that made this happen. Reporting the incident can provoke a surveillance of said trouble areas and possibily get that individual fired. Unfortunately, it won't get him/her butt-stroked. So, you'll have to live with what restitution Fed-Ex gives you.
I haven't had the problems you have with Fed-Ex, but then again, my personal preference is to ship via USPS. I have had one problem with them and again it was a specific area. St. Louis, where my rifle seemed to want to hang out for three weeks. HMMM??? When they found it was broken they may have wanted to return it and send it on it's merry way? I was in luck, as for some reason at that time I had so much confidence in them I opted not to insure my rifle.
quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
quote:Originally posted by Night Stalker
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
And had the packaging been more rigid that what was inside of it, it would have withstood a belt jam, instead the rifle was the sturdiest part of that entire shipment so it took the brunt of the abuse.
Look I understand you're upset because your gun was damaged, I would be too, but you need to place blame on those who packaged it. Saying that a company would intentionally damage shipments makes you look like a fool.
So, if I understand this correctly, the Fed-Ex sorter is basically a member of the same family as a car crusher and he should accept this as a fault of a well-intentioned FFL who should have packed the rifle in a kevlar encasement and provided for a two-person escort team?
NS
No, simply FedEx, or any shipping company for that matter, does not intentionally destroy peoples shipments. Fedex spends millions helping customers design packaging and testing their current packaging to prevent damages. This should have been packaged in a sturdier box, if not a hard case, it is blatantly poor packaging, and an automated sort system does not damage packages that are properly packaged.
Fed Ex's sorting conveyors are not near strong enough to break a stock. They also don't go around corners. They go straight from table up/down said conveyor belt to another sorting table or t/from their trucks.
It is my opinion that this kind of break was done by an individual who does not adhere to company policies. However, often as not things are moving too fast for Fed-Ex to find the actual errant/miscreant employee that made this happen. Reporting the incident can provoke a surveillance of said trouble areas and possibily get that individual fired. Unfortunately, it won't get him/her butt-stroked. So, you'll have to live with what restitution Fed-Ex gives you.
I haven't had the problems you have with Fed-Ex, but then again, my personal preference is to ship via USPS. I have had one problem with them and again it was a specific area. St. Louis, where my rifle seemed to want to hang out for three weeks. HMMM??? When they found it was broken they may have wanted to return it and send it on it's merry way? I was in luck, as for some reason at that time I had so much confidence in them I opted not to insure my rifle.
Really? How many FedEx sort facilities have you worked at or been in? I can guarantee you many of their sort facilities, have multiple corners in their conveyor systems.
I've been inside two, Memphis and Minneapolis (Eagan). And from what I've seen there is nothing that will jam up and break a package as strong as a rifle stock. That doesn't excuse the fact this one was broken while in transit with FedEx. I'm still solidly of the belief, that a miscreant is responsible for the damage, not the company or equipment.
No offense, but I don't see how you've been to the Superhub in Memphis and not seen the turns in their belts. Regardless, it may or may not have been a belt jam, or someone mishandling it, or God himself touching the package, but a company doesn't intentionally destroy anything.
The package looks to show two rubbed areas as if it was caught in a jam, and the bend across the cardboard and break area in it could have been caused by a heavier package hitting it on one end. This is not to say that it was in a belt jam, but it does look like some shifting did take take place against it, by other smooth flat objects, with a hard bump to one end. It certainly does not look like it was stomped on. The miscreant bit is believable as well.
For a belt jam to cause it something heavy had to hit it at a speed that would cause it to break. Can anyone do the math on the speed vs. 70 lbs and can anyone say what the strength of the stock is?
quote:Originally posted by gitano
Here are three new rifles I have added to my collection.
The top one is a Remington Model 660; the next a Remington Model 600, and the bottom one a Winchester Model 88. As I wrote in the title, they are all chambered in .308 Winchester.
Here's a close-up of the Model 88 as it came out of the shipping container shipped via FedEX.
Made me sick to my stomach. I purchased this from Cabelas, and it WAS in pristine condition. Metal is essentially like new-in-the-box. The stock WAS almost perfect. I got it for a song, and the sons of bachelors at FedEx broke it in half. It is my heartfelt belief that FedEx breaks/destroys firearms ON PURPOSE. Let me repeat that for emphasis. I BELIEVE THAT FEDEX INTENTIONALLY BREAKS/DESTROYS FIREARMS. The reason I have this belief is: personal experience, first-hand knowledge of friends and acquaintances, and a mountain of reports on "gun" web-sites reporting broken/destroyed firearms shipped by FedEx.
I contacted Cabelas first by phone then followed up with this email:
Dear Mr. Morse,
Per our telephone conversation earlier today, I am enclosing pictures of the rifle broken in shipping. (I am of course assuming you didn't send me a broken rifle.) I have included:
1) Two pictures of the rifle,
2) The mailing label,
3) The invoice/receipt from Cabelas, and
4) The shipping box.
I opened the box personally at the place of business of the FFL I was using for the transfer. The rifle was well-packed and the box at first glance didn't appear to be damaged. As soon as I attempted to remove the rifle from the shipping container I knew something was wrong as it was clearly in at least two pieces and I was fairly certain that Cabela's had not removed the butt-stock before shipping. Upon careful removal of the wrapping I saw that the stock was broken in two. Even though this break is essentially in the wrist, this particular break required some SERIOUS `effort' to accomplish.
I was heart-broken when I saw this. This is a beautiful rifle in excellent condition. I purchased it to include in my collection. It's collectable value is now `salvage' at best, but I am more grieved by the destruction of such an excellent example of a Model 88 than I am about my personal loss. This is truly a shame.
Based on personal experience, the experience of others I know personally and the reports of reliable sources on the internet, this breakage is "normal" for FedEx. In fact, it is my personal belief based on the frequency of occurrence with FedEx and the rarity of occurrence with other shippers, (NEVER in 15 years of personally shipping guns around the country), that FedEx intentionally breaks/destroys firearms. It may be something that occurs whenever they x-ray boxes for "overseas" shipments to Alaska or anywhere else where FedEx is called on to x-ray the contents of a package and they find out it is a firearm. I realize this may sound "paranoid", but I assure you that I am not "that sort" of person.
In addition to the propensity to break/destroy firearms, FedEx is extremely recalcitrant when it comes to "owning up" to the responsibility. This is inconsistent with their normal willingness to acknowledge responsibility for any other form of loss due to their action. In fact, they are very quick to rectify damage caused by them when it comes to anything OTHER THAN firearms. This is another reason I believe they break/destroy them intentionally.
As I said on the phone, I would prefer not to return this firearm to you and receive a refund. If that is necessary to get FedEx to fulfill their obligations in this matter, then so be it. However, a solution I would be perfectly happy with is replacement of the stock with one of comparable condition before this one was broken. If Cabelas can find such a stock, and I'm not in any particular hurry, I would much prefer that resolution.
Thank you for your consideration in this matter and please don't hesitate to call at the numbers below - the cell is best - if you have any questions or want to discuss this further.
Sincerely,
Paul Skvorc
On the phone, Mr. Morse agreed to my suggested solution of finding a replacement stock. That said, I doubt that will be very easy. I would like to enlist the help of the folks here at GunBroker.com in finding a proper stock for this rifle, (this rifle was - according to the serial number - made in 1961). Morse said he would check in Cabelas "inventory", but I have little hope for success there. However, if "I" find one, I may be able to get Cabelas to reimburse the cost if I purchase it.
Thanks,
Paul
We have similar tastes in guns, my 660 is a 6mm Remington.
I see the same break on a Winchester 88 also mailed by FedEx. Looks quite the same.
My 88 is a first year model and from what I understand that stock insert changed over time.
Finding a stock will be a challenge, the ones I've seen are about $300.00. I don't believe the 88 came with a recoil pad so in theory you should be able to "upgrade".
I have an extra Pachmayer "Swing Lo" scope mount, looks like new. If you'd shoot me a PM I'll send it to you - hopefully it will soon sit on top of a nicely stocked 88.
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
No offense, but I don't see how you've been to the Superhub in Memphis and not seen the turns in their belts. Regardless, it may or may not have been a belt jam, or someone mishandling it, or God himself touching the package, but a company doesn't intentionally destroy anything.
Let me be clear here. I said, if you'll go back and look, it's a miscreant employee, NOT A COMPANY....clear yet? Stop trying to say I said something I didn't. I said something else. I don't like it when you twist what I said. I really don't.
And, as far as I'm concerned I really don't understand why you take up the defense of a company who really did something wrong? I've seen a lot of rifles shipped in cardboard 'rifle' boxes and not broken like that. Why sit there and defend them? This isn't right, now they drag their feet about making it right? Still you defend them? I see you as much of a problem here as FedEx. As far as I'm concerned you might as well label yourself an "Anti-Gunner" and find somewhere else to troll about.
Comments
Exactly.
And not "wrapped around a post" from a "stack-up" on a belt either.
Paul
Actually the box being cracked like it got pinned against the corner of something and pressed on both sides is pretty typical of a belt jam. How much experience do you have working in a small sort system that moves 80-90k packages a night? Since you seem to be such an expert.
This makes perfectly good sense to me after viewing the box.
I'm not convinced that it was the carrier's fault. It would be difficult to break a stock without having severe damage to the shipping carton. I'd like to see the carton & the packing materials used. Then, there's always the possibility that the shipping clerk at Cabela's dropped the rifle & figured he'd ship it anyway.
I've received several rifles that had the barrel poking out of the end of the carton; these have all been poorly packed. OTOH, when I ship a long gun, I pack them with the goal of surviving a 6' drop, & never had a problem.
Neal
+1!
Sad, but this is more like Murphy's Law! [}:)]
ON the other hand a belt jam, something I've never heard of or seen the equipment this can happen on sounds plausable.
Last rifle I shipped was two guns for repair to century and I broke both rifles down so the box did not even look like a gun box. It was more economical to ship two guns in a smaller box and it also took attention away from those looking for gun boxes to steal.
NO belt jam shape to the box either.Wow, the irony of your expressed belief in the belt jam conspiracy is quite telling.
So, if I understand this correctly, you have no doubt that the US Gov attacked America on 9/11, but believe this man's rifle was smashed in half due to some sorting error?
How do you sort out that dichotomy of reason within yourself?
Fascinating.
NS
Look I understand you're upset because your gun was damaged, I would be too, but you need to place blame on those who packaged it. Saying that a company would intentionally damage shipments makes you look like a fool.
And had the packaging been more rigid that what was inside of it, it would have withstood a belt jam, instead the rifle was the sturdiest part of that entire shipment so it took the brunt of the abuse.
Look I understand you're upset because your gun was damaged, I would be too, but you need to place blame on those who packaged it. Saying that a company would intentionally damage shipments makes you look like a fool.
So, if I understand this correctly, the Fed-Ex sorter is basically a member of the same family as a car crusher and he should accept this as a fault of a well-intentioned FFL who should have packed the rifle in a kevlar encasement and provided for a two-person escort team?
NS
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
And had the packaging been more rigid that what was inside of it, it would have withstood a belt jam, instead the rifle was the sturdiest part of that entire shipment so it took the brunt of the abuse.
Look I understand you're upset because your gun was damaged, I would be too, but you need to place blame on those who packaged it. Saying that a company would intentionally damage shipments makes you look like a fool.
So, if I understand this correctly, the Fed-Ex sorter is basically a member of the same family as a car crusher and he should accept this as a fault of a well-intentioned FFL who should have packed the rifle in a kevlar encasement and provided for a two-person escort team?
NS
No, simply FedEx, or any shipping company for that matter, does not intentionally destroy peoples shipments. Fedex spends millions helping customers design packaging and testing their current packaging to prevent damages. This should have been packaged in a sturdier box, if not a hard case, it is blatantly poor packaging, and an automated sort system does not damage packages that are properly packaged.
quote:Originally posted by Night Stalker
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
And had the packaging been more rigid that what was inside of it, it would have withstood a belt jam, instead the rifle was the sturdiest part of that entire shipment so it took the brunt of the abuse.
Look I understand you're upset because your gun was damaged, I would be too, but you need to place blame on those who packaged it. Saying that a company would intentionally damage shipments makes you look like a fool.
So, if I understand this correctly, the Fed-Ex sorter is basically a member of the same family as a car crusher and he should accept this as a fault of a well-intentioned FFL who should have packed the rifle in a kevlar encasement and provided for a two-person escort team?
NS
No, simply FedEx, or any shipping company for that matter, does not intentionally destroy peoples shipments. Fedex spends millions helping customers design packaging and testing their current packaging to prevent damages. This should have been packaged in a sturdier box, if not a hard case, it is blatantly poor packaging, and an automated sort system does not damage packages that are properly packaged.
Fair enough... you clearly have a past related to this matter and I do not.
I would never have imagined a sorting conveyor would be that strong.
NS
or
[}:)][:p][}:)][:p][}:)]
quote:Originally posted by Waco Waltz
ON the other hand a belt jam, something I've never heard of or seen the equipment this can happen on sounds plausable.
Last rifle I shipped was two guns for repair to century and I broke both rifles down so the box did not even look like a gun box. It was more economical to ship two guns in a smaller box and it also took attention away from those looking for gun boxes to steal.
NO belt jam shape to the box either.Wow, the irony of your expressed belief in the belt jam conspiracy is quite telling.
So, if I understand this correctly, you have no doubt that the US Gov attacked America on 9/11, but believe this man's rifle was smashed in half due to some sorting error?
How do you sort out that dichotomy of reason within yourself?
Fascinating.
NS
Poor form Night stalker. Just poor form. Highjacking this thread is rude so I won't respond to the bait. Go get it cleared with the mods then post the question in a new thread.[V]
So what I've learned so far from this thread is the conveyor belt jams and can break a rifle but not if it's properly packaged. And proper packaging is a hard rifle case? And the industry standard is a gun box made of card board.
That shipping companies are not purposly breaking guns and there is no chance rouge employees are doing it on purpose either.
quote:Originally posted by Night Stalker
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
And had the packaging been more rigid that what was inside of it, it would have withstood a belt jam, instead the rifle was the sturdiest part of that entire shipment so it took the brunt of the abuse.
Look I understand you're upset because your gun was damaged, I would be too, but you need to place blame on those who packaged it. Saying that a company would intentionally damage shipments makes you look like a fool.
So, if I understand this correctly, the Fed-Ex sorter is basically a member of the same family as a car crusher and he should accept this as a fault of a well-intentioned FFL who should have packed the rifle in a kevlar encasement and provided for a two-person escort team?
NS
No, simply FedEx, or any shipping company for that matter, does not intentionally destroy peoples shipments. Fedex spends millions helping customers design packaging and testing their current packaging to prevent damages. This should have been packaged in a sturdier box, if not a hard case, it is blatantly poor packaging, and an automated sort system does not damage packages that are properly packaged.
Fed Ex's sorting conveyors are not near strong enough to break a stock. They also don't go around corners. They go straight from table up/down said conveyor belt to another sorting table or t/from their trucks.
It is my opinion that this kind of break was done by an individual who does not adhere to company policies. However, often as not things are moving too fast for Fed-Ex to find the actual errant/miscreant employee that made this happen. Reporting the incident can provoke a surveillance of said trouble areas and possibily get that individual fired. Unfortunately, it won't get him/her butt-stroked. So, you'll have to live with what restitution Fed-Ex gives you.
I haven't had the problems you have with Fed-Ex, but then again, my personal preference is to ship via USPS. I have had one problem with them and again it was a specific area. St. Louis, where my rifle seemed to want to hang out for three weeks. HMMM??? When they found it was broken they may have wanted to return it and send it on it's merry way? I was in luck, as for some reason at that time I had so much confidence in them I opted not to insure my rifle.
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
quote:Originally posted by Night Stalker
quote:Originally posted by Ox190
And had the packaging been more rigid that what was inside of it, it would have withstood a belt jam, instead the rifle was the sturdiest part of that entire shipment so it took the brunt of the abuse.
Look I understand you're upset because your gun was damaged, I would be too, but you need to place blame on those who packaged it. Saying that a company would intentionally damage shipments makes you look like a fool.
So, if I understand this correctly, the Fed-Ex sorter is basically a member of the same family as a car crusher and he should accept this as a fault of a well-intentioned FFL who should have packed the rifle in a kevlar encasement and provided for a two-person escort team?
NS
No, simply FedEx, or any shipping company for that matter, does not intentionally destroy peoples shipments. Fedex spends millions helping customers design packaging and testing their current packaging to prevent damages. This should have been packaged in a sturdier box, if not a hard case, it is blatantly poor packaging, and an automated sort system does not damage packages that are properly packaged.
Fed Ex's sorting conveyors are not near strong enough to break a stock. They also don't go around corners. They go straight from table up/down said conveyor belt to another sorting table or t/from their trucks.
It is my opinion that this kind of break was done by an individual who does not adhere to company policies. However, often as not things are moving too fast for Fed-Ex to find the actual errant/miscreant employee that made this happen. Reporting the incident can provoke a surveillance of said trouble areas and possibily get that individual fired. Unfortunately, it won't get him/her butt-stroked. So, you'll have to live with what restitution Fed-Ex gives you.
I haven't had the problems you have with Fed-Ex, but then again, my personal preference is to ship via USPS. I have had one problem with them and again it was a specific area. St. Louis, where my rifle seemed to want to hang out for three weeks. HMMM??? When they found it was broken they may have wanted to return it and send it on it's merry way? I was in luck, as for some reason at that time I had so much confidence in them I opted not to insure my rifle.
Really? How many FedEx sort facilities have you worked at or been in? I can guarantee you many of their sort facilities, have multiple corners in their conveyor systems.
I've been inside two, Memphis and Minneapolis (Eagan). And from what I've seen there is nothing that will jam up and break a package as strong as a rifle stock. That doesn't excuse the fact this one was broken while in transit with FedEx. I'm still solidly of the belief, that a miscreant is responsible for the damage, not the company or equipment.
What's the weight limit on packages sent though normal shipping channels?
I'm thinking 70 pounds... ?
With a total length and girth of 108 inches... ?
With amounts greater than that being charged more.
Here are three new rifles I have added to my collection.
The top one is a Remington Model 660; the next a Remington Model 600, and the bottom one a Winchester Model 88. As I wrote in the title, they are all chambered in .308 Winchester.
Here's a close-up of the Model 88 as it came out of the shipping container shipped via FedEX.
Made me sick to my stomach. I purchased this from Cabelas, and it WAS in pristine condition. Metal is essentially like new-in-the-box. The stock WAS almost perfect. I got it for a song, and the sons of bachelors at FedEx broke it in half. It is my heartfelt belief that FedEx breaks/destroys firearms ON PURPOSE. Let me repeat that for emphasis. I BELIEVE THAT FEDEX INTENTIONALLY BREAKS/DESTROYS FIREARMS. The reason I have this belief is: personal experience, first-hand knowledge of friends and acquaintances, and a mountain of reports on "gun" web-sites reporting broken/destroyed firearms shipped by FedEx.
I contacted Cabelas first by phone then followed up with this email:
Dear Mr. Morse,
Per our telephone conversation earlier today, I am enclosing pictures of the rifle broken in shipping. (I am of course assuming you didn't send me a broken rifle.) I have included:
1) Two pictures of the rifle,
2) The mailing label,
3) The invoice/receipt from Cabelas, and
4) The shipping box.
I opened the box personally at the place of business of the FFL I was using for the transfer. The rifle was well-packed and the box at first glance didn't appear to be damaged. As soon as I attempted to remove the rifle from the shipping container I knew something was wrong as it was clearly in at least two pieces and I was fairly certain that Cabela's had not removed the butt-stock before shipping. Upon careful removal of the wrapping I saw that the stock was broken in two. Even though this break is essentially in the wrist, this particular break required some SERIOUS `effort' to accomplish.
I was heart-broken when I saw this. This is a beautiful rifle in excellent condition. I purchased it to include in my collection. It's collectable value is now `salvage' at best, but I am more grieved by the destruction of such an excellent example of a Model 88 than I am about my personal loss. This is truly a shame.
Based on personal experience, the experience of others I know personally and the reports of reliable sources on the internet, this breakage is "normal" for FedEx. In fact, it is my personal belief based on the frequency of occurrence with FedEx and the rarity of occurrence with other shippers, (NEVER in 15 years of personally shipping guns around the country), that FedEx intentionally breaks/destroys firearms. It may be something that occurs whenever they x-ray boxes for "overseas" shipments to Alaska or anywhere else where FedEx is called on to x-ray the contents of a package and they find out it is a firearm. I realize this may sound "paranoid", but I assure you that I am not "that sort" of person.
In addition to the propensity to break/destroy firearms, FedEx is extremely recalcitrant when it comes to "owning up" to the responsibility. This is inconsistent with their normal willingness to acknowledge responsibility for any other form of loss due to their action. In fact, they are very quick to rectify damage caused by them when it comes to anything OTHER THAN firearms. This is another reason I believe they break/destroy them intentionally.
As I said on the phone, I would prefer not to return this firearm to you and receive a refund. If that is necessary to get FedEx to fulfill their obligations in this matter, then so be it. However, a solution I would be perfectly happy with is replacement of the stock with one of comparable condition before this one was broken. If Cabelas can find such a stock, and I'm not in any particular hurry, I would much prefer that resolution.
Thank you for your consideration in this matter and please don't hesitate to call at the numbers below - the cell is best - if you have any questions or want to discuss this further.
Sincerely,
Paul Skvorc
On the phone, Mr. Morse agreed to my suggested solution of finding a replacement stock. That said, I doubt that will be very easy. I would like to enlist the help of the folks here at GunBroker.com in finding a proper stock for this rifle, (this rifle was - according to the serial number - made in 1961). Morse said he would check in Cabelas "inventory", but I have little hope for success there. However, if "I" find one, I may be able to get Cabelas to reimburse the cost if I purchase it.
Thanks,
Paul
We have similar tastes in guns, my 660 is a 6mm Remington.
I see the same break on a Winchester 88 also mailed by FedEx. Looks quite the same.
My 88 is a first year model and from what I understand that stock insert changed over time.
Finding a stock will be a challenge, the ones I've seen are about $300.00. I don't believe the 88 came with a recoil pad so in theory you should be able to "upgrade".
I have an extra Pachmayer "Swing Lo" scope mount, looks like new. If you'd shoot me a PM I'll send it to you - hopefully it will soon sit on top of a nicely stocked 88.
What's the weight limit on packages sent though normal shipping channels?
150 lbs
No offense, but I don't see how you've been to the Superhub in Memphis and not seen the turns in their belts. Regardless, it may or may not have been a belt jam, or someone mishandling it, or God himself touching the package, but a company doesn't intentionally destroy anything.
Let me be clear here. I said, if you'll go back and look, it's a miscreant employee, NOT A COMPANY....clear yet? Stop trying to say I said something I didn't. I said something else. I don't like it when you twist what I said. I really don't.
And, as far as I'm concerned I really don't understand why you take up the defense of a company who really did something wrong? I've seen a lot of rifles shipped in cardboard 'rifle' boxes and not broken like that. Why sit there and defend them? This isn't right, now they drag their feet about making it right? Still you defend them? I see you as much of a problem here as FedEx. As far as I'm concerned you might as well label yourself an "Anti-Gunner" and find somewhere else to troll about.