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Tiffany Colt Part 2

altnuttaltnutt Member Posts: 80
edited October 2011 in Ask the Experts
Spider7115 -

The picture you posted is the same gun I saw. The engraving is high quality like you posted. I saw these guns for only five minutes and tried to snap quick pictures. Do you know of fake colts like this one, with the same design?

I guess I could send a letter request to Colt and wait six months...
Seller wants $55,000 for the pair.

I agree they should be authenticated first. I am interested in what some of you think as far as if they appear genuine. I have no experience in what a phony one would like like. If they are phony they are absolutley beautiful fakes and still look museum quality.

Comments

  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,741 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Go online and make contact with Greg Martin and James D. Julia:

    http://historical.ha.com/ArmsArmor/

    http://jamesdjulia.com/
    What's next?
  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member, Moderator Posts: 29,704 ******
    edited November -1
    $55,000 is an excellent price IF they are genuine Tiffany Colts. Yes, I've seen fakes that were very well done so these warrant further investigation.

    With a set like that, I would think the owner would know something about them as they're certainly not common. If genuine, they would have belonged to someone of prominence and wealth.

    I believe Colt will give you historical information over the phone for an extra fee & a credit card and then send you a historical letter. If you're thinking of buying these, it's well worth the investment. Please keep us informed as to what you found out.
  • givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886
    edited November -1
    Yeh. The telephone eval from Colt is a must to get you started!

    By that, I mean Colt may letter the guns (if authentic Tiffany's) to the NYC distributor, and the trail may run cold beyond that point.

    Now, detective work..

    After above search is satisfied, you should see if the company records of the retail shop Colt sent the guns to is still available (unlikely).

    You should also contact Tiffany & Co. and see if they can trace the SerNo on the colt in question to their shop (a little less unlikely).

    The grand-slam homer in determining authenticity is if Tiffany had an agreement with Hartford so ship firearms directly to them, by-passing the NY agent (I don't have the answer to this!)

    Good luck, and keep us informed! Joe
  • altnuttaltnutt Member Posts: 80
    edited November -1
    From what I see about the identical looking Colt previously posted,

    http://theautry.org/the-colt-revolver-in-the-american-west/tiffany-grips?artifact=87.118.40

    It was engraved by Louis D. Nimschke and not "Tiffany & Co." but these were called "Tiffany" as in a style. So would Nimschke have engraved another identical Colt, a series of them, or would each gun be completely unique? If he engraved a series of the same design then the possiblity of the gun in question being authentic would be a good sign. If the gun in the link is a one of a kind then I would assume the gun is question is a very well made forgery. The gun in question is in fact a real Colt, no doubt in my mind from seeing it.

    Would someone have completely copied the engraving and done this on a gun in the same time period? Would someone have done this after say maybe 40 or 30 years ago? If someone had attempted to copy Louis D. Nimschke's work, would that gun still have value even as a "copy"? The question my important in my mind is would Nimschke made several engravings of the same exact style?

    Colt-1.jpg
  • altnuttaltnutt Member Posts: 80
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
    $55,000 is an excellent price IF they are genuine Tiffany Colts. Yes, I've seen fakes that were very well done so these warrant further investigation.

    With a set like that, I would think the owner would know something about them as they're certainly not common. If genuine, they would have belonged to someone of prominence and wealth.

    I believe Colt will give you historical information over the phone for an extra fee & a credit card and then send you a historical letter. If you're thinking of buying these, it's well worth the investment. Please keep us informed as to what you found out.


    Even if I had a colt letter, Colt would probably have no record of the engraving just that those serial numbers were in fact sold to a company correct? It will not authenticate the engraving work as being "genuine" from the time period or by a particular designer even if it was Tiffany & Co correct? So in essence I could get a letter stating that these are in fact genuine colt pistols and where they were sold on such and such a date.
  • golferboy426golferboy426 Member Posts: 960 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    you could buy them contingent on verification I suspect the seller would accept and expect no less
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,792 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Now I'm confused.

    Your first post on this part is: "The picture you posted is the same gun I saw." So, if it is the same gun, that means that one of the pair you were offered has serial number 4974, because that's the SN of the gun Spider linked to. I mean, if it is the same gun, it will have the same serial number. And, that would mean that the guns came from the Autry museum, & should have at least some provenance.

    Or, isn't that what you mean? If that isn't what you mean, what DO you mean? What are the serial numbers of BOTH guns?

    Neal
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    Hello the one thing to consider is the more people see your pictures the more likely someone will try to over bid you on the deal. As always this is a touchy matter. If you contact Colt and ask to speak to Historian Beverly Jean Hayesshe will be the best person to help you on your Quest You will need to give her the serial number This lady has always been VERY helpful when getting information for Me. On letters from Colt she will give some information over the phone. if these ARE factory Guns that are factory engraved she will be very excited and surely want to help you She will say in so many words YOU NEED TO GET A LETTER Go there FIRST.
  • altnuttaltnutt Member Posts: 80
    edited November -1
    I used the term "same gun" very loosly. I meant the engraving. As Eric Holder would say, "I mis-spoke."

    The guns are in fact different models, look at the pictures carefully. I do not have the guns, I do not know the serials as I only saw them for five minutes when they were offered for sale to me. I snapped quick pictures and ended up here. I will be contacting the seller shortly to get more information on the serial numbers, what else he may know, and then contact colt for letters on the pair. After that I will have more information to share and hopefully more answers as well. My main concern now is to find if the engraving is a copy of Nimschke or was is done by him. The colts are real guns, real colts.
  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member, Moderator Posts: 29,704 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by altnutt
    quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
    $55,000 is an excellent price IF they are genuine Tiffany Colts. Yes, I've seen fakes that were very well done so these warrant further investigation.

    With a set like that, I would think the owner would know something about them as they're certainly not common. If genuine, they would have belonged to someone of prominence and wealth.

    I believe Colt will give you historical information over the phone for an extra fee & a credit card and then send you a historical letter. If you're thinking of buying these, it's well worth the investment. Please keep us informed as to what you found out.


    Even if I had a colt letter, Colt would probably have no record of the engraving just that those serial numbers were in fact sold to a company correct? It will not authenticate the engraving work as being "genuine" from the time period or by a particular designer even if it was Tiffany & Co correct? So in essence I could get a letter stating that these are in fact genuine colt pistols and where they were sold on such and such a date.

    I agree it appears to be Nimschke engraving. If he did it for the Colt factory, they will have record of it. Do you know if the serial numbers have an "E" or dots by them?

    Definitely make that phone call to Colt!
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