UPDATE: Guard in custody after man dies in shooting at protests

kimi

Update:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.denverpost.com/2020/10/15/denver-protest-shooting-matthew-dolloff-charges/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbs42.com/news/national/guard-in-custody-after-man-dies-in-shooting-at-protests/amp/

Ditch-Runner

 my wife told me about it when it first hit the internet . 
I told her then it will play out completely different when its reported on the news  they would have a whole new story and sure enough there it is 

jimdeere

“ Denver Police Department Division Chief Joe Montoya told the Post that police could not confirm the shooter’s or the victim’s affiliations, but he said the incident started as a verbal altercation. “

carrie2

That is security guard not national guard!

nmyers

I know nothing about running a police department, but I would think that it would make sense to require a permit for all rallies or protests, & you would make sure that competing groups are staged at least 1 mile apart, & that the assigned areas are nowhere near major streets.

But, what do I know?

Neal

kimi

All too many local government officials want opposing factions to clash...that's a given.

kimi

Barzillia said:

kimi said:

All too many local government officials want opposing factions to clash...that's a given.

???

Did I stutter too much for you, Barz?

chiefr

Typical of AP: Painting patriot groups as right wingers. We all know whose side the media is on and it is not America as founded.

kimi

chiefr said:

Typical of AP: Painting patriot groups as right wingers. We all know whose side the media is on and it is not America as founded.

To include a good number of their faithful on this forum.

nmyers

Yesterday I saw on TV a close-up photo of the moments just before the shooting.  The news reader described the man who was shot as discharging a cloud of "orange pepper spray".  All I saw was a solid bright flash; it may have been artifact from the enlargement process, or it may have been pepper spray with dye, but it may also have been a flame.  Can you ignite the propellant of pepper spray with a match?  If so, that would be turning the pepper spray can into a deadly weapon, arguably justification for deadly force from the security guard.  This may be an interesting legal case.

Neal

kimi

Neal, what I saw was an orange spray.  I don't remember if it was a picture or on a video clip.  It looked like a case of cold blooded murder.

Sam06

I watched the video of the encounter.  I am not sure why the two got into it as the dead guy was arguing with another guy before that.  The dead guy and a guy with a Black Guns Matter t-shirt were really going at it, then they kind of broke off and the next thing you know the dead guy pepper sprays the shooter and the shooter blows him away.

The dead guy was kind of asking for it, he was super confrontational and acting very violent.  The pepper spray he deployed was a large amount, I mean it was a huge cloud like bear spray.

Are you justified in shooting a guy for pepper spraying you?  I don't know.  Was the shooter in fear for his life?  He was watching a guy arguing and threatening violence with another guy just moments before, then he fires bear spray at the shooter.  Did the shooter think he was going to get incapacitated then attacked?  Think about that, a guy uses bear spray on you then attacks you when you cannot see, knocks you to the ground and stomps in you face. 

What kind of confrontation did the dead guy and shooter have in those few seconds between the dead guy moving from the previous conflict to getting shot, it was a very short period of time.

I have a lot of questions about the scenario.

jimdeere

Lesson learned...if you go looking for trouble, most times you’ll find it.

Sam06

jimdeere said:

Lesson learned...if you go looking for trouble, most times you’ll find it.

+1

kimi

Sam, another thing I've heard is that there were three people that appeared to be working with each other, the cameraman, an agitator that would approach a patriot to pick a fight, and the security guard. It will be. Interesting to see how the case turns out.

Sam06

I just read that the shooter is a known lefty and has been involved in past protests on the side of antifi and other commie outfits.

Warbirds

The shooter was outnumbered, assaulted and then pepper sprayed by a guy who he had just witnessed in another confrontation.

I have a hard time finding much empathy for the dead guy. He went looking for a fight and found one.

Pics out of sequence- As shown it is 2-1-3. For some reason I am not able to move them around.

nmyers

Photo sequence doesn't look right.  In the first pic, the shooter's sunglasses are below his nose; in the second one, they cover his eyes. 

Neal

"Dying's no way to earn a living, boy." ---  Outlaw Josey Wales

jimdeere

Agree 100%.

Warbirds

I think you are definitely correct @nmyers - also hat vs no hat.

I am going to fix them but that was the order I found them in.

kimi

Sam06 said:

I just read that the shooter is a known lefty and has been involved in past protests on the side of antifi and other commie outfits.

He is apparently a bad guy.  Michelle Malkin's research has pretty much put this note in cement.  And, she has reported that the agitator that the cameraman looks to have been shadowing is a bad guy as well.  He is black and likely a BLM activist that posed as a conservative to infiltrate the patriot group's side.  I would not doubt that he is connected to the cameraman and the shooter, both.  Time might tell.

kimi

Some of you folks posting on this thread need to read the discussion titled:

UPDATE: Michelle Malkin on Denver killing of patriot

or go to this link for this full story: 
https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/1895480/update-michelle-malkin-on-denver-killing-of-patriot#latest

Here are just a few important notes from her story:

 "While Keltner was trailed by the Black militant agitator, a Trump-hating Occupy Denver radical named Matthew Dolloff and a local NBC affiliate investigative producer for Denver's 9News named Zack Newman conferred with each other nearby. At some point, Dolloff handed his cellphone to Newman.

Minutes later, photographers and videographers filmed the agitator aggressively daring Keltner to deploy a can of bear spray he was holding to protect himself as Dolloff and Newman stood by. Keltner resisted engaging in any physical brawl as the agitator escalated. Mere seconds later, he walked away from the agitator only to walk right into what appears to be a deadly ambush with Dolloff. In an instant, Dolloff appeared to grab for something on Keltner's chest (his holstered weapon?) while Keltner slapped at his face. Dolloff then whipped out a gun and blew off Keltner's face as the veteran backed away, spraying his repellant in self-defense."

 

 

KenK/84Bravo

Wow.

Sounds like several people have a lot of explaining to do, and perhaps be charged as well.

kimi

KenK/84Bravo said:

Wow.

Sounds like several people have a lot of explaining to do, and perhaps be charged as well.

No doubt!

Frogdog

Wow - crazy photo. It looks like the camera actually caught the shot (gun's slide is beginning to cycle). I keep looking to see if I can see the bullet somewhere in that cloud of bear spray, but I can't find it. Maybe not quite out of the barrel? 

KenK/84Bravo

Yeah, now that you mention it, you can see the eject in the air.

(With the eject being that far along, I'd say he's already hit.)

Sam06

Sleeveless shirt, Tattoos, Silver rings, tough guy fu-man-chu, black outfit with cuss words on it, cool guy boonie cap, wallet with a chain, mirrored shades; all this adds up to a guy who is looking for trouble and found it.  This guy, IMO looks likes every wannabe tough guy and bully I have ever seen.

That is why it pays to be the greyman. 

kimi

Frogdog said:

Wow - crazy photo. It looks like the camera actually caught the shot (gun's slide is beginning to cycle). I keep looking to see if I can see the bullet somewhere in that cloud of bear spray, but I can't find it. Maybe not quite out of the barrel? 

He was on the way down when pic was snapped.

Sam06

That sheds some new light on the incident Kimi. 

KenK/84Bravo

That shooter is screwed. (As well as the two or three people he was working with.)

Have fun in Max Security Gen Pop.

Mr. Perfect

Based on this footage, the shot and the pepper spray being sprayed happened at almost the same time, and given sound speed, the shot probably happened first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xg9GLr36Ao&ab_channel=9NEWS

KenK/84Bravo

Wow that footage was telling. 1st one was about nothing you could really see. 2nd one shows how fast it happened when the Guy shot, stepped away. Literally a second or two.

Damn.

I will also say, Crazy how many Cops they had there, RIGHT AFTER THE INCIDENT HAPPENED.

Sam06

Kimi

And now yours.

Thanks and good work digging that up.

kimi

You're welcome, Sam!  Thanks, FCD!

Mr. Perfect

Flying Clay Disk said:

HERE'S THE MISSING FRAME!!!!  (finally!)

Here is one of the missing frames from the 9 news photographer's camera!!!!

https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/news-photo/two-men-clash-after-dueling-rallies-in-downtown-denver-on-news-photo/1279690699?adppopup=true

This clearly shows the shooter, mask still on, with his hands on the victim BEFORE the victim slapped him.  The victim also has his hands at his side, with one hand on the pepper spray.  The victim looks like his arm is cocked back to begin the slap, but this is in response to the shooter shoving/grabbing him.

The shooter is the aggressor! 

Funny how 9 news conveniently "lost" this frame, isn't it????  Proof positive of media manipulation of the facts!

I would certainly hope there are more arrest warrants being drawn up as we speak!  Looks to me like the media instigated this event!

ETA - And here is another one of the missing frames!

https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/news-photo/man-reaches-for-a-gun-in-his-waistband-as-another-on-the-news-photo/1279577443?adppopup=true&uiloc=thumbnail_more_from_this_event_adp

Notice in this photo (post slap, but pre-shot) the victim has retreated two steps and the shooter is drawing his pistol.  Notice the position of the mace can at the side of the victim.  The shooter is already drawing his pistol, and the victim has not drawn his mace can.  This further corroborates the DPD statement that the pepper spray and the shot were nearly simultaneous, and that the shot was not a result of the pepper spray.

Also notice the position of the vertical uprights in the fence; it's clear the victim has backed up, and the shooter has not moved.

NOTE - I cannot post these pictures because they are for sale, hence the link.  But the link clearly shows some of the missing video frames.

The shooter is going to be spending a long time in the greybar hotel!

Good find. The pictures are all there and are all out of sequence, but if you click the right button you can see the image numbers which <edit> does not actually help put them in sequence, unfortunately. Never mind.

nmyers

Note that at the beginning of the video, the vic chest bumps the black guy with the Black Guns Matter T- shirt.  When that confrontation ends, he must have run over to Doloff, because the fatal shot was fired within 2-3 seconds.  I would expect his lawyer to argue that the vic was really the aggressor, not Doloff.

The only difficult part will be to convince a jury that Doloff believed that pepper spray put him in fear of great * harm or death.  He'd better get the best Public Defender Denver can offer.

Neal

Mr. Perfect

Flying Clay Disk said:

@Mr. Perfect - The pictures are all there...now.  Well, as far as we know, based on a couple statements, but they weren't there yesterday or the day before.  I know, because I looked at this archive then and they were clearly missing.  Why, is another question, but likely $$$ had something to do with it (i.e. whomever withheld them probably realized these images were the pivotal images and therefore were worth a lot more money, so before they put them out there they tried to sell them to the highest bidder.  This would be my guess.)

Now, to the "statements" I referred to above.  The 9 news photographer alleges her camera was set to capture 10 frames per second.  As you likely know, a "realtime" video is 60 frames per second.  So, when I was doing some calculations the other day I estimated there were 3-4 missing frames based on her statement.  If she's not being truthful, and 9 news is notorious for not being truthful, then there are a heck of a lot more frames missing than 3-4 (more like a 200+ missing frames).  When you take into account codecs like MPEG-4 and others, some of those frames will likely be fragments, but many others will be full frames.  To the best of my knowledge we don't know what type of camera the photographer was using to even know if it was able to easily adjust frame rates on the fly, if at all.

Yes, after looking closely, there are DEFINITELY some frames missing if this is coming from video, but I suspect it's from snapshots. I can't figure out the image numbering tho. That's a mystery. I suspect they were numbered after upload.

kimi

Flying Clay Disk said:

I think I have to correct myself on something (and this is a developing story).  The photos are now being alleged to be from a Denver Post photographer, not 9 news.  9 news was there, and they also had a photographer, but the image sequence we see is from the Denver Post photgrapher, Helen Richardson.

The guy in the blue shirt has been confirmed as the 9 news journalist the shooter was allegedly hired to protect.  The cell phone in the hand of the blue shirt guy actually belongs to the shooter.  The shooter handed it to him right before charging the victim.

To the best of my knowledge, none of the 9 news images have been released to date.

The cell phone notes are in line with Michelle Malkin's extensive report.

kimi

Flying Clay Disk said:

I didn't realize until just the other day (different subject) that she lived here.  I've always liked her as a journalist.  Pretty easy on the eyes too.

I've liked her as a journalist, too.  As I see it, I don't see any that are better than she is.  She's out front with the very best of them.

kimi

Update:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.denverpost.com/2020/10/15/denver-protest-shooting-matthew-dolloff-charges/amp/