And those that refuse to ship to C&R (FFL03)
Great video, and first post. This should be a sticky, or somewhere up top.
Welcome to the forums, An interesting way to introduce your self with a post that could be taken many different ways... I hope you hang around and would hope you are a little more detailed as to your point of future posts...
Thanks for the welcome.
I thought the video was pretty clear. A legal sale is a legal sale. It would be nice if GB included C&R information in their tutorials. It might cut down on the ignorance related to C&R's a bit. I think that's part of it. Either way, it sucks for those who have gone through the process of acquiring a FFL03 only for it not to be honored by certain sellers.
Actually, I sent GB a suggestion a few years ago, asking them to put a "C&R accepted" check-box on all firearms listings. So far, no response.
One thing in that video confused me; I can't figure out why a Walther P38 made after 1946 is not a C&R, even if it is at least 50 years old.
@Steve_OH yes video was pretty clear, the reason for posting it, not so much... was it just an fyi? or were you complaining about treatment on the auction side of the house? or some other reason? Please be sure to read the forum guidelines located near the top of the forums and again welcome aboard.
Beats me Neal. Not the first time a ATF ruling/reg has made no sense.
Maybe I'll send in a suggestion as well. If they get enough feedback on C&R's maybe the situation will improve.
This topic has been forwarded to HQ for their consideration. Hopefully we will hear back. @nmyers & @Steve_OH
Being legal, does not being mandatory. If you don't like a dealers policies, don't buy there. Easy enough. I know one dealer who has to drive 30 miles to ship USPS while Brown and Fed Ex pick up. Easy choice, but if you offered to pay extra for that trip, he might do it.
FYI- have held an 03 FFL since 1976. Have 2 LGss that keep a copy of mine on file. And have lost count of the 01 FFLs that really don't understand what an 03 FFL is.
On line, I have asked (politely) questions like "This rifle was only made in 1950-51. Will you accept a copy of my 03 C&R FFL for it?"
For the ones that say "No"- I thank them, and go look for another seller. If they say "Yes", I send them a copy and payment. Their sale, their choice. But also my MONEY, and MY choice. Having a gun shipped to an 01 and paying them for transfer can easily add $100 to the fees of a purchase.
For the Dealer that asks "How does that 03 thing work?". I'll give him an honest answer. And if you have an 03, you get really good at researching dates of manufacture. And you stay broke. Happy, but broke! 😛
Shipper choice, (UPS, Fedex, USPS) has nothing to do with C&R that I'm aware of. If I'm wrong please educate me.
You are so right on the "Broke" comment.
I do pretty much exactly as you. Ask politely and try to educate those who don't know.
With our rights being eroded daily as they are. It would be nice if more people were educated as to the different FFL licenses.
To Montanajoe: Thank you sir.
I think that Dale was just referring to the fact that since it's their gun, the make the selling rules, and we as buyers need to follow them, or go else where. I've had an 03 for quite some time, and found the same thing that you have. I think that it's just due to some sellers being lazy. Kasey (locustfork) sells tons of stuff here on gb, and will accept a C&R with identification if the item meets the criteria. I just figure that if they're too lazy to do any research, that's a bad way to start an auction off, and it will only get worse from there.
I think that one of the major problems with FFL's has been the amount of fake FFL's that have been made up by people getting copies of the sending FFL. I think that with the https://fflezcheck.atf.gov/FFLEzCheck/, an FFL is foolish to send a copy of their license when such a great tool is available. This site is provided by the ATF, and should be recognized by them, and eliminate a bunch of paperwork that used to be held on to.
I do realize that an '03 can't be run thru the ezcheck system, but more people could, or should make the effort to verify them, especially with the stricter gun laws coming down that could decrease their sales even more.. I feel your pain brother..
If they dont understand the various types of FFL, their legitimacy, and purpose, they do not deserve to have a FFL.
Certainly I believe all sellers should be able to deny a questionable sale or not sell to states with egregious gun laws, but to deny a sale merely because they are unfamiliar with types of licenses such as an 03 should warrant an examination by the ATF.
Yes, I believe GB should take a proactive approach with dealing with sellers who refuse to accept C&R FFLs.
One of the advantages of an 03, the main one in fact, is that you can receive USPS shipping a $15 to $20, instead of twice that or more from Brown or Fud Ex.
Man, risking prison time for forging a FFL so one could get a gun shipped to his house (or whatever reason) sure sounds like a dumb thing to do. Course no one ever said criminals are smart.
I have received a reply back from HQ, and they are willing to consider proposals, suggestions. They ask that the proposal be wrote up in more of a business format, and it will be forwarded to the right office.
If anyone here is willing to do the write up, PM me. Thank you.
WARNING: I'm going to use the "S" word here.
Why won't some FFL dealers accept a Type 03 FFL from a qualified individual? I think they are concerned about forgery, since they cannot verify the license through the ATF database.
We SHOULD be able to check a Type 03 FFL through the EZ Check site. How hard would that be?
Regarding FFL forgery: I know of an incident of several years back, when a Type 01 FFL gave a copy of his license to what he believed was a simple transfer customer. The customer changed the address on the license to his home address and sent it on to the vendor. The vendor was suspicious and contacted the FFL, who canceled the order. Nothing happened to the customer because he and the FFL were "friends," and the FFL didn't report it.
just to note; you can check a 03 ffl with just a phone call to your local atf office.
When the EZ Check software was originally released to production, you could look up Type 03 licenses, as well as Type 01. I know this for a fact, because I successfully looked up my Type 03 license, & several others; it worked the same way as the Type 01 lookup.
Almost immediately, several 03 holders complained to ATF that they didn't want their home address on public display. That made no sense to me, because you had to know the license number to get an address for a Type 03, just as with Type 01. But, ATF thought that made sense, so a few months later they released a new version of EZ Check that did not permit looking up Type 03 licenses. My feeling is: if ATF wasn't stressed by taking this valuable tool from us, I'm not going to get stressed. Obviously, the fellas with the bulges in the cheap suits don't think that forgery of Type 03 licenses is a problem.
Personally, I wouldn't buy or sell a gun without getting a copy of a drivers license, unless the other person was a verifiable dealer. When I make photocopies of my 03 license, I put my DL on the printer glass at the bottom of my license.
GB should force everyone to follow the law in an equal manner. If someone is not following the law they get removed from GB the same should apply to dealers who don't follow the law on C&R FFL's.
Yes, let's force me to do stuff. Let's see how that works.
My thoughts exactly.
Requiring a license of any kind when it comes to firearms is unconstitutional.
Lets say for instance, I have a firearms business or any other business for that matter,
and choose to run it my way as long as it is legal within the law, those that don't like it can move along.
Get my drift and my 2 cents.