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I was in anti tank companies in the 82nd and 172rd airborne. After I was injured and could no longer jump I found myself doing convoy security in Iraq for 4ID. Which is why after 10 years the Army and I parted ways. In my experiance all US weapons are reliable if you put enough lube on them, it is a misconception not to use oil in the sand. We caried empty water bottles full of motor oil to dump in our weapons incase they jamed and to help cool them in sustaned attack by fire situations.
MK19 MOD3 Great for a stationary position but only marginal for firing on the move. Great target penitration but 16 second flight time at max range.Hard to fire at night.
M2 .50 BMG Good for stoping cars, ok against harder targets. Incredable accuracy day and night with IR laser. Low recoil, but fairly low rate of fire. Very slow hot barrel changes.
M240 high rate of fire makes this a good general purpose machine gun for convoy operation, but will overheat fairly fast in rapid fire.
M60 lower rate of fire than M240 but still good for convoy operations. more suted to dismounted operations where prolonged susrained fire is needed, more dificulte to maintain in sustaned operations.
M249 As far as machine guns go probably the most bang for the buck. light weight one man crew. good rate of fire, In real life there is very few things a 7.62 will shoot threw that a 5.56 will not. Most of the time it is more effective to take two M249s than it is to take one three man M240/M60 crew.
M4/M16A2 Light weight, light ammo, low recoil. To me the greatest advantage of the M4 is not its size, it is on of the only rifles that I have ever seen that from 0-300m you aim center mass of the target and you will hit it. A grate benifit for using it at night. As far as killing power as long as I hurt them bad enough they dont want to fight anymore I have done my job, but most people that bad mouth the 5.56 are people that have never seen someone shot with it, let alone someone hit twice in the chest at close range.
M9 many say it is the most reliable pistol in the world, While handguns are basically for self preservation in combat I did see a fat Iraqi shot with one and he didnt get back up so that is good enough for me to be convinced it will do its job.
When it comes down to being the one on the ground the mission dictates the weapons required. The gun that you rely on the most for your job becomes your weapon of choice because of the comfort level it provides.
Semper Fi to all the Marines! I'm new to the forums but I agree with several others, 7.62 nato or .308win. and it just gets better when you link 'em together and run 'em through an m-240 gulf at a cyclic rate of fire!
I like this forum, it's a great outlet. I think my wife is tired of dicussing the finer pionts of modern weaponry and it's effective deployment against various "ihateamericans"
BUT, in a pistol it's .45 acp all the way. 9mm? What the hell... Why are we afraid to kill our enemies? That used to be the point of going to war, now we just want them to like us.
quote:Originally posted by jsuggs
M240 high rate of fire makes this a good general purpose machine gun for convoy operation, but will overheat fairly fast in rapid fire.
M60 lower rate of fire than M240 but still good for convoy operations. more suted to dismounted operations where prolonged susrained fire is needed, more dificulte to maintain in sustaned operations.
M249 As far as machine guns go probably the most bang for the buck. light weight one man crew. good rate of fire, In real life there is very few things a 7.62 will shoot threw that a 5.56 will not. Most of the time it is more effective to take two M249s than it is to take one three man M240/M60 crew.
M4/M16A2 Light weight, light ammo, low recoil. To me the greatest advantage of the M4 is not its size, it is on of the only rifles that I have ever seen that from 0-300m you aim center mass of the target and you will hit it. A grate benifit for using it at night. As far as killing power as long as I hurt them bad enough they dont want to fight anymore I have done my job, but most people that bad mouth the 5.56 are people that have never seen someone shot with it, let alone someone hit twice in the chest at close range.
M9 many say it is the most reliable pistol in the world, While handguns are basically for self preservation in combat I did see a fat Iraqi shot with one and he didnt get back up so that is good enough for me to be convinced it will do its job.
Have you modified your 240's? all you need is a dremel tool and a skilled hand. you can increase the rate of fire. Both the factory and the armorers say don't do it but their butt is not on the line. I have seen many people shot with a 5.56 and I am going to bad mouth it, its crap, so is 9mm. Get a fanatical taliban jihadist doped up on opium and screaming some incoherent junk about allah running at you shooting, you will change your mind after the 5th shot fails to stop him. 1 short burst from a 240 and its straight to hell for him. Why have 3 people on a 240, you only need 2, 1 if you are mounted. I like the saw its small, light, good rate of fire and easy to field strip clean and put back together. The only problem with the saw is the round it fires. even an upgrade to a .243 would be a major improvement. But thats not what out nato allies use and our politicians use this as an excuse to sell us down the river for political favors. the 6.8 was a great round for a machine gun, for a rifle or machine gun for that matter its hard to beat a 7.62x39. Reliability wise its hard to beat an ak, accuracy wise its easy, try a rock. We carried M16/203's M14's and 240's and a colapsible stock ak on our packs since the ammo is plentiful there. for sidearms we carried mk23's. We were issues M16/203's M4's and 9mm's, the M4's and the 9mm's were returned at the end of deployment unfired. We were ordered by a few officers to use the body armor, gear, and weapons we were issued. Those orders were given their due attention.
Call me a liar if you must, but I could and would carry a m240 on a sling with a short belt in it and a beretta. I have this pics to prove it. I'm a big guy, it ain't for everybody. As to the nine mil, whata crock! I hated the beretta and found the fit of the slide worthless and the double action unreliable. I was cleaning my m9 one night and happened to look down and see a spring stuck in my AP brush! This was in country. Now, I carry a Sig p220 in .45 or a p229 in .40. They won't let you down and they pack a punch. It seems like the Geneva Convention wants us to play tag with inferior weapons and it would be a shame if anybody actually got killed in war.
quote:Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato
Call me a liar if you must, but I could and would carry a m240 on a sling with a short belt in it and a beretta. I have this pics to prove it. I'm a big guy, it ain't for everybody. As to the nine mil, whata crock! I hated the beretta and found the fit of the slide worthless and the double action unreliable. I was cleaning my m9 one night and happened to look down and see a spring stuck in my AP brush! This was in country. Now, I carry a Sig p220 in .45 or a p229 in .40. They won't let you down and they pack a punch. It seems like the Geneva Convention wants us to play tag with inferior weapons and it would be a shame if anybody actually got killed in war.
The only part that has to do with geneva is the full metal jacket round. We as a nation decided on the 9mm because its what our NATO allies were carrying, yeah BS. Here is the real story, the army had decided to make the blackhawk its utility helicopter and replace the Huey. Italy expressed interest in buying the Hueys didn't want to pay what we wanted for them. At the same time the army wanted to quit using the 45 and the 38 for females, they wanted one weapon that could be fired by a male or female. They wanted high capacity double action with a safety. Of course the average woman's hand is smaller than that of an average man, and recoil is a factor too, The 38 was a good weapon and well suited for what it was used for, although I have taught my wife to shoot my 45 proficiently. Anyways our representatives in Washington elected to protect our interests in national politics decided in their infinite infallable wisdom to seal the deal with the Hueys buy offering a huge lucrative contract to Berretta, an Italian arms manufacturer, in exchange for the Italians buying our used Hueys. That contract was the army's new pistol which at the time was only able to be manufactured in 9mm. Our elected officials sold the military down the river to put money in their pockets. The Marine Corps said no thanks, but the politicians pushed DOD to have 1 universal side arm for all of the armed forces, the rest is history. The same thing with the M16. It was fielded to the army in the 50's by armalite, and the army said hell no its a piece of crap, its plastic it will break, the round is too small to incapacitate the enemy, and it blows carbon back into the bolt, that combined with the presence of dirt which is unavoidable in battle will cause it to jam. Armalite sold its plans to Colt who changed its name to the M16, and presented it to the army in the 60's. It failed the tests but that was covered up, and new tests were done within the capability of the weapon. It of course passed those tests. The M16 was adopted because of immense pressure by Colt, a company with extensive political connections. Bottom line is we were sold down the river in exchange for political favors and money by the people we elected to represent us. And wildeman people have gotten killed because of it, a lot of soldiers and Marines were found dead in Vietnam with their cleaning kits out trying to make their piece of crap weapons work. Several have been killed in Afghanistan with the M4 when they engage a target 10 times with their M4 before they are killed by jihadist taliban doped up on opium and islam.
I saw Irquis(huey is slang) all over the world but in the three years I was statione in Italy the only one I saw belonged to a US national guard unit, it was there for us to jump out of.
When the Army changed to the 9mm Colt wanted it to be the Combat Comender, which it designed as a 9mm replacement to the .45ACP. Colts DA prototype, the All American was not ready in time for the test.
Two pistols pased the test the Beretta M9 and the SIG P225.
Due to the quantity purchased congress wanted it to be made in america. Beretta saw the civilian market for a DA 9MM pistol in the states and agreed to manufacture here.
When the Special Operations purchased the SIG, It wasnt because the Beretta didnt work, It was because SIG could get them the guns faster than anyone else could. Enough Berettas were not purchased for all SF and airborne soldiers to have one, the M4 was already on the way, just not in production yet.
When private security groups buy SIG's it is usually pre-owned lease returns. So it is one of the cheapest pistols they can get.
Remember that when you by that high priced SIG, or other european weapon, as much as 40% of the price you pay for it is the export tax from the country it is made in.
The price of a gun has very litle to do with its function and reliability often you are buying a name.
To wittynbear: I'm a history nerd, it's great to see some light shed on how we ended up with the Beretta. I'd heard that about the M16 before. It's really sad, we use a round that sometime won't keep a coyote down. I've never heard anything good about the Beretta. I find it funny in a sad way that our m240s and 249s are from belgium and our side arms are Italian. I wonder how many American jobs that created? At least the Ma Deuce is American.
P.S. If you on Camp Pendleton you should shoot coyotes, ther's so many of the meanies.
To jsuggs: You are buying a name everytime you buy a Colt. They ain't cheap. Especially revolvers. I'll defend Sig. They've got an easy to take down design with good out of the box accuracy. I've shot my P220 next to expensive Colts and Kimbers and wasn't convinced to buy either of them. I love the 1911 but the Sig works for me. I don't really buy into names. I use what works for me. I'll drive a Ford until the day they let me down and I'll do the same with guns.
quote:Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato
To wittynbear: I'm a history nerd, it's great to see some light shed on how we ended up with the Beretta. I'd heard that about the M16 before. It's really sad, we use a round that sometime won't keep a coyote down. I've never heard anything good about the Beretta. I find it funny in a sad way that our m240s and 249s are from belgium and our side arms are Italian. I wonder how many American jobs that created? At least the Ma Deuce is American.
P.S. If you on Camp Pendleton you should shoot coyotes, ther's so many of the meanies.
I love the Ma Duece but it was too heavy for us, so we didn't use it. We liked to pack lots of heavy firepower but we went out in small teams for weeks at a time and had to carry food, lots of ammo, explosives, and several weapons. I have never been to Iraq I was wounded in Afghanistan and that ended my career. I heard through the grapevine that they experimented with putting us in vehicles, that is by far the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. I was never at Pendleton, I visited there for a week to see a friend but was never stationed there. I was stationed at Lejeune and Okinawa the whole time I was in, save for 3 years of MSG. I was never a hollywood Marine, didn't get issued a beach towel, suntan lotion, and sunglasses. [8D] I did go to CAX several times from Lejeune and encounter coyote's there. They were smart, they seemed to know we had MRE's and didn't have real rounds. We shattered their belief system when we managed to obtain .223 rounds. One shot to the head at about 50 ft and they drop like a rock. If you shoot them anywhere else they yelp and jump around for what seems like eternity, but really just long enough for a follow up shot.
Sorry to hear your career ended, I hope you've been able to put your life back on track. My career wasn't as illustious but I fell rappeling at Bridgeport and wrecked my neck and shoulder. That ended my reenlistment package in a hellfast and a hurry. I have some knowledge of what it's like. The civilian sector sucks. Good luck to you. Out of the three of us from my little hometown who went into the Marines I'm the only one who didn't get medboarded due to injuries sustained in combat. The other two have purple hearts and dog me, saying I took the easy road. They got medboarded too.
Ps: I'm still getting awful flashbacks from a bad case of sunburn I got chasing bikini clad women for PT. West coast Pt is brutal, do you know how hard it is to run in the sand and not spill your Mai-tai. I love those little unbrellas! I guess the West Coast is the best coast means nothing to you?
The Beretta was made in the US. There is many articles on the internet about it. I like the Beretta and own one. Alot of the recent problems with it are due to age(many are about 20 years old). Most need depot level rebuilds. There are mot many excess in the system so it would be easier to buy new pistols.
On the ground you dont care where a gun is made only that it works.
quote:Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato
Sorry to hear your career ended, I hope you've been able to put your life back on track. My career wasn't as illustious but I fell rappeling at Bridgeport and wrecked my neck and shoulder. That ended my reenlistment package in a hellfast and a hurry. I have some knowledge of what it's like. The civilian sector sucks. Good luck to you. Out of the three of us from my little hometown who went into the Marines I'm the only one who didn't get medboarded due to injuries sustained in combat. The other two have purple hearts and dog me, saying I took the easy road. They got medboarded too.
Ps: I'm still getting awful flashbacks from a bad case of sunburn I got chasing bikini clad women for PT. West coast Pt is brutal, do you know how hard it is to run in the sand and not spill your Mai-tai. I love those little unbrellas! I guess the West Coast is the best coast means nothing to you?
I have had several jobs and never really felt like I fit in. I drink too much, get up to early, have too much of a potty mouth, I feel like a fish out of water. I had a decent civilian job working for the army doing physical security. It was pretty cool I worked at the PMO for the Provost Marshal. We got a new PM who wanted to run things like it was sept 10 2001. We butted heads on many occasions, I come into work with a pretty bad hangover one day and in no mood for his crap. He come in my office yelling about security measures I put in place while he was on leave. I told him the garrison commander approved it in his absence. He flipped his retard switch and demanded that they be taken down. I told him I quit you take it down and go f--k yourself in front of the God and everybody. I found out he a (LtCol) is being reassigned in an Lt's position on a general's staff in Iraq, which is the only way he can salvage his career. I am looking for a job now. I am going to try police, security, or corrections. I really don't have any marketable job skills other than what I did in the Corps, and thats not in really high demand. I thought about blackwater but I think they are on their way down and don't want to be part of a sinking company. I need to get a job driving a truck for budweiser that would be pretty cool, but there are no beer distributors around here. I would go elsewhere but I am kind of tied down with a wife, kid, and house.
How did you fall rapelling? I never even heard of someone falling while rapelling, when I was there a guy who died he suffocated in his snow cave.
You think west coast pt is bad try okinawa pt. Chasing Japanese women to see if other things are slanted like their eyes. I don't know about Mai-Tai's but I know that its hard run and not spill a beer. West coast is not the best coast, although probably better than Swamp Lagoon, Okinawa is better, but embassy duty is the best.
quote:Originally posted by jsuggs
Current production M2's are made in Belgum.
The Beretta was made in the US. There is many articles on the internet about it. I like the Beretta and own one. Alot of the recent problems with it are due to age(many are about 20 years old). Most need depot level rebuilds. There are mot many excess in the system so it would be easier to buy new pistols.
On the ground you dont care where a gun is made only that it works.
I have no question about the reliability of the beretta, for accuracy yes it needs to be rebuilt or replaced. The biggest problem with the beretta is its 9mm, and they can't fix that. You are almost better off pistol whipping the enemy than shooting them with the beretta.
unfortinuately 9MM and 5.56 are what you get when you enlist/reenlist.
After the first year of fighting in OIF the Army ammo surplus was almost totally depleted. All current production ammo was being shiped directly to Iraq and Afganastan. Due to demand the Army bought British ammo (5.56 and 9MM) for training. Knowing this I do support the NATO ammo theory.
If the Army switched calabers to something non NATO/Warsaw mid fight you may have something with more knockdown but there would be a siver ammo shortage. These are the only calabers that are set up for the production required of a war gun.
quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
quote:Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato
Sorry to hear your career ended, I hope you've been able to put your life back on track. My career wasn't as illustious but I fell rappeling at Bridgeport and wrecked my neck and shoulder. That ended my reenlistment package in a hellfast and a hurry. I have some knowledge of what it's like. The civilian sector sucks. Good luck to you. Out of the three of us from my little hometown who went into the Marines I'm the only one who didn't get medboarded due to injuries sustained in combat. The other two have purple hearts and dog me, saying I took the easy road. They got medboarded too.
Ps: I'm still getting awful flashbacks from a bad case of sunburn I got chasing bikini clad women for PT. West coast Pt is brutal, do you know how hard it is to run in the sand and not spill your Mai-tai. I love those little unbrellas! I guess the West Coast is the best coast means nothing to you?
I have had several jobs and never really felt like I fit in. I drink too much, get up to early, have too much of a potty mouth, I feel like a fish out of water. I had a decent civilian job working for the army doing physical security. It was pretty cool I worked at the PMO for the Provost Marshal. We got a new PM who wanted to run things like it was sept 10 2001. We butted heads on many occasions, I come into work with a pretty bad hangover one day and in no mood for his crap. He come in my office yelling about security measures I put in place while he was on leave. I told him the garrison commander approved it in his absence. He flipped his retard switch and demanded that they be taken down. I told him I quit you take it down and go f--k yourself in front of the God and everybody. I found out he a (LtCol) is being reassigned in an Lt's position on a general's staff in Iraq, which is the only way he can salvage his career. I am looking for a job now. I am going to try police, security, or corrections. I really don't have any marketable job skills other than what I did in the Corps, and thats not in really high demand. I thought about blackwater but I think they are on their way down and don't want to be part of a sinking company. I need to get a job driving a truck for budweiser that would be pretty cool, but there are no beer distributors around here. I would go elsewhere but I am kind of tied down with a wife, kid, and house.
How did you fall rapelling? I never even heard of someone falling while rapelling, when I was there a guy who died he suffocated in his snow cave.
You think west coast pt is bad try okinawa pt. Chasing Japanese women to see if other things are slanted like their eyes. I don't know about Mai-Tai's but I know that its hard run and not spill a beer. West coast is not the best coast, although probably better than Swamp Lagoon, Okinawa is better, but embassy duty is the best.
I was trying to get around a crevice, got almost to a 45 degree angle, lost my footing, slammed head/shoulder first into a rock with my break hand behind my back. It was kind of like something Tarzan would do. Sucked it up for awhile 'cause thats what Marines do or so my Gunny said. A few months later we were training to do a raid/detainee extract and while mounting up my driver asked if we were up and I said "NO!" and he thought I said go. I got thrown out of the truck, couldn't use my arm so I got taken to medical and they said my shoulder was torn up and my collar bone had been broken for months along with signs I'd injured my neck. I hate civilan life, I'm in VOC-Rehab. It's a good program, better than the GI bill. My first job out I got into trouble for saying what needed to be said. And apparently, poor performing co-workers are not "b@#$%s" and can not be refered to as thus. I tried selling cars but with the way I walked, talked, and shook hands they were worried about getting robbed or getting beaten to death if they didn't agree with me. Now I'm going to school for law enforcement. You should look a seattle or anchorage. They're hiring.
quote:I was trying to get around a crevice, got almost to a 45 degree angle, lost my footing, slammed head/shoulder first into a rock with my break hand behind my back. It was kind of like something Tarzan would do. Sucked it up for awhile 'cause thats what Marines do or so my Gunny said. A few months later we were training to do a raid/detainee extract and while mounting up my driver asked if we were up and I said "NO!" and he thought I said go. I got thrown out of the truck, couldn't use my arm so I got taken to medical and they said my shoulder was torn up and my collar bone had been broken for months along with signs I'd injured my neck. I hate civilan life, I'm in VOC-Rehab. It's a good program, better than the GI bill. My first job out I got into trouble for saying what needed to be said. And apparently, poor performing co-workers are not "b@#$%s" and can not be refered to as thus. I tried selling cars but with the way I walked, talked, and shook hands they were worried about getting robbed or getting beaten to death if they didn't agree with me. Now I'm going to school for law enforcement. You should look a seattle or anchorage. They're hiring.
That sucks, I guess your Gunny didn't know the difference between hurt and injured. If your hurt you suck it up, if your injured you get treated at the first availiable opportunity. I used to order my Marines to get checked out if I saw them limping, or favoring one arm or the other because some people confuse being hard with being stupid, like your Gunny. I don't want something minor keeping my guys out of the next firefight when it doesn't have to. On the same hand I have seen crybabys too, those admin or supply POGs who go spend all day at BAS to avoid work.
My first job out of the Corps. I tried working at target, I told the manager flat out that I couldn't stand stupid people and asked to be assigned stocking shelves at night. He put me on the floor during the day. I was wearing a red vest and a name tag it was obvious who I was. I had a lady ask me "Is your name Josh?" I said no maam I killed Josh, pissed on him and threw his dead decaying carcass in the dumpster. I am walking around with his uniform on to see how many people will ask me stupid questions. I guess the manager did not see the humor and fired me. I tried working at a gas station overnight, a guy come in with a knife to rob the place, I knew by the look in his eyes he was really scarred, so I told him to go away before he gets hurt. He jumped over the counter at me and I took his knife away from him and slapped him around a little bit and threw him out. The owner fired me for not calling him and the police, what a wus. I got the job with the army, they don't know how to treat people, and they act like a bunch of retards. I thought about Anchorage but they require you to go there twice in the hiring process. That is too far from alabama and not cheap for no guarantees, plus my wife hates the cold weather, especially when I turn off the heater because its too hot inside and I don't like the severe temp change from inside to out.
Yeah, I'm from Minnesota and Anchorage is actually warmer for me. If you get into Voc-rehab my counselor said that they can help with traveling to interviews. You only have to go once to Alaska, the indoc you can do in Chicago or Minneapolis. Maybe try Seattle, or LA. That's probably more dodging bullets then Iraq. Civilians are afraid of us. They don't know how to approach us and are often intimidated. A guy at work kept lying and I called him out, then I said few this like "Don't you have any &%@#ing integrity?". I also mentioned the world would be a better place without him and that he should expedite that with a handgun. I also have a hard time not getting into fights with people who run thier mouth about being tougher than a Marine. One guy said he fought three Marines at once and won. When he said he wanted to fight, he really meant wrestle. I used my fists and knees. Oops. I can't keep out of trouble. I need a job that matters, where I can help people or something.
quote:Originally posted by jsuggs
unfortinuately 9MM and 5.56 are what you get when you enlist/reenlist.
After the first year of fighting in OIF the Army ammo surplus was almost totally depleted. All current production ammo was being shiped directly to Iraq and Afganastan. Due to demand the Army bought British ammo (5.56 and 9MM) for training. Knowing this I do support the NATO ammo theory.
If the Army switched calabers to something non NATO/Warsaw mid fight you may have something with more knockdown but there would be a siver ammo shortage. These are the only calabers that are set up for the production required of a war gun.
We are one of the most industrialized nations. In WWII we turned out Millions of .30-06, .45 acp, and .30 carbine. Those weren't cartridges used by all the allies and they got the job done. Nato is a joke anyway. We shouldn't base the safety of our Marines and Soldiers on what Europe wants. We spend way to much time bending over for them and not enough time persecuting the people who like to set up IEDs and fly air planes into our buildings. Screw the Geneva convention, put an anti-armor .50bmg through a towelhead and see if he gets up after that!
Switching service rifles midway threw a war dosnt make since to me. Neather does using a round that is not combat proven. Too many problems when the M16 first came out. Everything from lack of parts and cleaning kits to inexperiance with the weapon. Both of which cost alot of brave men their lifes.
Why not just issue the team leaders the colt submachine gun, full auto, 9mm version of the M4. Greatly improved knock down power at close range, when used with NATO 147 grain 9mm SMG ammo which we and many countries already produce and use in the MP5, UZI, Beretta SMG, and others. It uses mostly the same repair parts, can be used with all of the modular weapon system acesseries, i think it even uses the same ammo pouches. All things that must be adressed for a combat weapon. It would be like a modern day thommy gun. But a gun that can be filded rapidly so that it can make a impact on the wars that we are curently in.
It takes years to develop a rifle/round for military use. Even longer to test and field. Everyone always dreams of a perfict rifle that will never exist. Weapons mix will always give the best results, since no one gun can do it all. In that mix of machine guns, rifles and pistols, the full auto submachine gun is often needed for that up close knockdown power.
By the way I have seen people hit with the .50 cal. What else would you expect when someone is hit by a heavy MG other than that. I also spent plenty of time road marching with the 60 pound reciver on my ruck. Not very practical, very slow manuver. I think we averaged less than 3MPH. But then again young soldiers think the Barret is heavy.
We usually carried about 75 lbs of gear 35lbs of ammo plus the weapons, and radios. Explosives, batteries, extra ammo, AT4, and etc. were divided up, and that could add some serious weight. The Barrett is not heavy, its heavier than an M40 but its manageable. Our teams had Barretts but we didn't use them, so they were left locked away while we went out. Our sinper spotter teams carried and M40 and it works perfectly. If we needed anything heavier we called for air support or artillery. I was very impressed with artillery there always on target and it didn't take long at all. The key to a successful mission is no officers, leave them in basecamp. They go out and want to do everything and just screw it up, no thanks, butterbar stays behind. I was impressed with the air support too, the AF A-10's were an awesome display of firepower, Cobra's were awesome, as were navy and Marine Corps jets. The only one's I wasn't impressed with was the Apache's the atmy makes them out to be a super bird and the Cobras did much better everytime hands down. Before someone thinks I am bashing on the army, I'm not even though it is a favorite pasttime of mine. I will say the army did a great job with the Chinooks in Afghanistan. It was the only one that could go to the higher elevations and they really stepped up to the plate there.
Originally posted by wittynbear
We worked with Cobras too. What a great feeling to see that shadow in front of your Humvee. Them Snake drivers can really put a hurtin' on anybody dumb enough to piss off a convoy with one flying cover!
I'm starting to rethink my weapon of choice in Iraq. I was thinking... maybe something subtle... like an A-bomb. Maybe we should get the towelheads one for Ramadan?
The Apache is probably one of the best anti-tank helocopters in the world, and one of the worst close air support helocopters in the world. It is designed to fire from near the max engagement of its weapons, which is good for its survival but very bad for close in work. Maby I just have a grudge since I was almost shot by one providing my platoon CAS in Iraq(a burst of 50 HE cannon rounds hit literally less than 10ft away from me). The Cobra along with most Marine aircraft is very versital anything you need from anti-tank to CAS. Makes you wonder why the Army didnt keep them.
The Army and the Air Force seem to be obsessed with the most expensive shiny toys. Look at the F-22 Raptor, who can compete with the planes we have now? The JSF is much cheaper and the Marine Corps and the Navy had a big part in that. The Army believes it can make up for lack of training with more tecnological gear. Look at the Land Warrior System, I wouldn't want to carry that crap. Soldiers now have so many optics, lasers, flashlights, and other crap yet they neglect to train with thier iron sights. This is not just another Jarhead bashing on the Army, that's coming from a my uncle and cousin who are both career Army. More gear, more weight, more MONEY! quote:Originally posted by jsuggs
The Apache is probably one of the best anti-tank helocopters in the world, and one of the worst close air support helocopters in the world. It is designed to fire from near the max engagement of its weapons, which is good for its survival but very bad for close in work. Maby I just have a grudge since I was almost shot by one providing my platoon CAS in Iraq(a burst of 50 HE cannon rounds hit literally less than 10ft away from me). The Cobra along with most Marine aircraft is very versital anything you need from anti-tank to CAS. Makes you wonder why the Army didnt keep them.
Whatever happened to the Army's Comanche program anyway? Wasn't that supposed to be the best all around stealth helo ever?quote:Originally posted by jsuggs
The Apache is probably one of the best anti-tank helocopters in the world, and one of the worst close air support helocopters in the world. It is designed to fire from near the max engagement of its weapons, which is good for its survival but very bad for close in work. Maby I just have a grudge since I was almost shot by one providing my platoon CAS in Iraq(a burst of 50 HE cannon rounds hit literally less than 10ft away from me). The Cobra along with most Marine aircraft is very versital anything you need from anti-tank to CAS. Makes you wonder why the Army didnt keep them.
The same thing that happened to the M8 light tank. $$$$$. Clinton put the military so far behind in aquisitions of new equipment that they still arnt even close to being able to buy the comanchie yet. Probably gone forever.
quote:Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato
Whatever happened to the Army's Comanche program anyway? Wasn't that supposed to be the best all around stealth helo ever?
I know the cammanche was done away with after all the money was spent on research and development. They even spent millions on a building dedicated to the commache with simulators and everything. About a week before it opened the program was cancelled now that building is used for something else, another square peg in a round hole, the military is good for that. As for the apache, I have had more accurate fire from 155mm howitzers 20k away. I don't know if its the apache thats a piece of crap or the pilot, but after almost being killed 2 out of 2 times, we said thats it no more apaches.
quote:Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato
I'm starting to rethink my weapon of choice in Iraq. I was thinking... maybe something subtle... like an A-bomb. Maybe we should get the towelheads one for Ramadan?
I couldn't agree more I think we should repay them for all the favors they have done for us like a 757 stuffed full of pigs and fuel crashed into the middle of mecca on the holiest day of the muslim year, and send all of your favorite raghead dictators an Abomb for Christmas, special air delivery by the usaf.
quote:Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato
The Army believes it can make up for lack of training with more tecnological gear. Look at the Land Warrior System, I wouldn't want to carry that crap. Soldiers now have so many optics, lasers, flashlights, and other crap yet they neglect to train with thier iron sights. This is not just another Jarhead bashing on the Army, that's coming from a my uncle and cousin who are both career Army. More gear, more weight, more MONEY!
The army, navy, and airforce all ask what does it do, and what does it cost. The Marines want to know what does that hunk of poop weigh.
quote:Originally posted by jsuggs
so what rifle/pistol would you want to carry?
I would want to design my own rifle because I don't really like anything out there for rifles. I want something with a titanium body and bolt and a heavy tension bolt spring to pulverize dirt like the AK. I want a gas piston design to eliminate the carbon fouling problem of the M16 series rifles. I want a folding and collapsable stock for parachuting, and urban ops. It needs a flash suppressor, a nickel lined barrel and action for the dirty fire ability of the AK. I want a watertight bolt so the weapon can be fired completely or partially underwater. I want at least 30 round mags, I would be satisfied with the 7.62x51 even better would be .30cal (30.06). I want a long reinforced magazine well as on the M16 series. I want a selector lever for safe, semi, 2 shot burst instead of the 3, and full auto. I would want a 20mm barrel on the bottom that can fire a 20mm ap round to take out armor, and have a round made that fires a 20mm grenade well over the range of the 203. I want a bipod incorporated ointo the bottom of the rifle. I want folding reflex sights under the scope for daytime and IR lasers with nightvision and thermal imaging scope for nighttime I also want the scope to work in daytime with at least 10x magnification, along with backup iron sights. That about does it for a rifle, if it was manufactured it would be very expensive but well worth it. I estimate the weight without ammo and mags to be about 10 to 10 1/2 pounds, not much heavier than the M1 Garand with many more features. For a pistol I want a ParaOrdinance Hicap LDA 14.45 but I want it in traditional double action instead of DAO and I want it in black instead of stainless. This would be easy to manufacture but no one makes it. If I had to choose from available weapons I would take the SOCOM 16 with a collapsible stock and the ParaOrdinance 14.45 LDA.
I would probably go with the M4A1, with a IR laser, ACOG, and back up sight. I would add a choped down 12 gauge pump breach gun under the barrel. I dont know If you have ever seen one of the 870's that are cut down to hold 2 rounds in the mag, and one in the chamber or not. It mounts to the bayonet lug and you use the rifle mag as the pistol grip. Extra full choke, good little gun for close range.
And the 1911A1 with Novac sights, and CTC laser grips.
Have you ever shot a FAL? It is similar to the rifle you describe but in 7.62 NATO. Good gun but not quite my taste, You would probably like it.
quote:Originally posted by jsuggs
Have you ever shot a FAL? It is similar to the rifle you describe but in 7.62 NATO. Good gun but not quite my taste, You would probably like it.
I have never shot the FAL but I have seen it a few times. I still want to build my own and someday when I win the lotto I will. First I have to get AL to have a lotto.
Dont the soviets have a 30MM version of the M203 that has more range? I remember it from somewhear. Maby it is Isreal that has it, so many weapons out there its hard to remember them all.
What I missed toward the end of my service was the LAW. While it didnt have the power of the AT4 it was small, light weight, built in range finder, and night sights. Only about 4 pounds everyone could carry one, no fancy rigging required to jump or repel it in. It was also alot more accurate.
I dont blame you for wanting to build your own gun. I have a idea for a air dropable ruberised track Infantry fighting vehicle of my own. Maby someday I will have the chance to build it.
quote:Originally posted by jsuggs
so what rifle/pistol would you want to carry?
There will never be a firearm that meets all needs, really you have to pick and choose something that meets your mission's basic requirements without comprimising your ability to effectively close with and engage your enemy. I would choose something that puts 'em down and keeps 'em down. Many of the new Mission Adapdable Systems are heavy and have too many parts. I hated carrying the M16/m203 because it had to much weight on the forend for hasty off-hand shots. I would rather carry a seperate light wieght grenage launcher. Check out H&K, they have a couple of light weight options. If I had to go into a bad situation tommarrow I'd say it would be an M-14 SOCOM, I know alot of people say the whole "socom" stuff is for gear queers but thats not why I like it. It points fast and is compatable with many different optics, plus it has a round with some power and the balistics for some down range actiona and has tried and true reliablity. You could even mount a picatinny rail compatable grenade launcher on it. I would also carry a Sig Sauer P220 in .45acp or 1911. Who needs alot of rounds when a few well placed ones will do? If anybody hollers about needing high cap mags for suppression, I'm just saying this selection is for the rifleman only or a singlely armed individual not for a whole platoon who has to do fire and maneuver.
quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
quote:Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato
Whatever happened to the Army's Comanche program anyway? Wasn't that supposed to be the best all around stealth helo ever?
I know the cammanche was done away with after all the money was spent on research and development. They even spent millions on a building dedicated to the commache with simulators and everything. About a week before it opened the program was cancelled now that building is used for something else, another square peg in a round hole, the military is good for that. As for the apache, I have had more accurate fire from 155mm howitzers 20k away. I don't know if its the apache thats a piece of crap or the pilot, but after almost being killed 2 out of 2 times, we said thats it no more apaches.
To give the ARMY it's due, we had a couple of good Air support mission with Apaches.
Comments
MK19 MOD3 Great for a stationary position but only marginal for firing on the move. Great target penitration but 16 second flight time at max range.Hard to fire at night.
M2 .50 BMG Good for stoping cars, ok against harder targets. Incredable accuracy day and night with IR laser. Low recoil, but fairly low rate of fire. Very slow hot barrel changes.
M240 high rate of fire makes this a good general purpose machine gun for convoy operation, but will overheat fairly fast in rapid fire.
M60 lower rate of fire than M240 but still good for convoy operations. more suted to dismounted operations where prolonged susrained fire is needed, more dificulte to maintain in sustaned operations.
M249 As far as machine guns go probably the most bang for the buck. light weight one man crew. good rate of fire, In real life there is very few things a 7.62 will shoot threw that a 5.56 will not. Most of the time it is more effective to take two M249s than it is to take one three man M240/M60 crew.
M4/M16A2 Light weight, light ammo, low recoil. To me the greatest advantage of the M4 is not its size, it is on of the only rifles that I have ever seen that from 0-300m you aim center mass of the target and you will hit it. A grate benifit for using it at night. As far as killing power as long as I hurt them bad enough they dont want to fight anymore I have done my job, but most people that bad mouth the 5.56 are people that have never seen someone shot with it, let alone someone hit twice in the chest at close range.
M9 many say it is the most reliable pistol in the world, While handguns are basically for self preservation in combat I did see a fat Iraqi shot with one and he didnt get back up so that is good enough for me to be convinced it will do its job.
When it comes down to being the one on the ground the mission dictates the weapons required. The gun that you rely on the most for your job becomes your weapon of choice because of the comfort level it provides.
The M4 (M16 is rarely used...for you old timers...unless you are/were a POG)
M16 is rarely used? by what service? We're still deploying M16A4s by the company; only SNCO & Officers have M4s...
I like this forum, it's a great outlet. I think my wife is tired of dicussing the finer pionts of modern weaponry and it's effective deployment against various "ihateamericans"
M240 high rate of fire makes this a good general purpose machine gun for convoy operation, but will overheat fairly fast in rapid fire.
M60 lower rate of fire than M240 but still good for convoy operations. more suted to dismounted operations where prolonged susrained fire is needed, more dificulte to maintain in sustaned operations.
M249 As far as machine guns go probably the most bang for the buck. light weight one man crew. good rate of fire, In real life there is very few things a 7.62 will shoot threw that a 5.56 will not. Most of the time it is more effective to take two M249s than it is to take one three man M240/M60 crew.
M4/M16A2 Light weight, light ammo, low recoil. To me the greatest advantage of the M4 is not its size, it is on of the only rifles that I have ever seen that from 0-300m you aim center mass of the target and you will hit it. A grate benifit for using it at night. As far as killing power as long as I hurt them bad enough they dont want to fight anymore I have done my job, but most people that bad mouth the 5.56 are people that have never seen someone shot with it, let alone someone hit twice in the chest at close range.
M9 many say it is the most reliable pistol in the world, While handguns are basically for self preservation in combat I did see a fat Iraqi shot with one and he didnt get back up so that is good enough for me to be convinced it will do its job.
Have you modified your 240's? all you need is a dremel tool and a skilled hand. you can increase the rate of fire. Both the factory and the armorers say don't do it but their butt is not on the line. I have seen many people shot with a 5.56 and I am going to bad mouth it, its crap, so is 9mm. Get a fanatical taliban jihadist doped up on opium and screaming some incoherent junk about allah running at you shooting, you will change your mind after the 5th shot fails to stop him. 1 short burst from a 240 and its straight to hell for him. Why have 3 people on a 240, you only need 2, 1 if you are mounted. I like the saw its small, light, good rate of fire and easy to field strip clean and put back together. The only problem with the saw is the round it fires. even an upgrade to a .243 would be a major improvement. But thats not what out nato allies use and our politicians use this as an excuse to sell us down the river for political favors. the 6.8 was a great round for a machine gun, for a rifle or machine gun for that matter its hard to beat a 7.62x39. Reliability wise its hard to beat an ak, accuracy wise its easy, try a rock. We carried M16/203's M14's and 240's and a colapsible stock ak on our packs since the ammo is plentiful there. for sidearms we carried mk23's. We were issues M16/203's M4's and 9mm's, the M4's and the 9mm's were returned at the end of deployment unfired. We were ordered by a few officers to use the body armor, gear, and weapons we were issued. Those orders were given their due attention.
Call me a liar if you must, but I could and would carry a m240 on a sling with a short belt in it and a beretta. I have this pics to prove it. I'm a big guy, it ain't for everybody. As to the nine mil, whata crock! I hated the beretta and found the fit of the slide worthless and the double action unreliable. I was cleaning my m9 one night and happened to look down and see a spring stuck in my AP brush! This was in country. Now, I carry a Sig p220 in .45 or a p229 in .40. They won't let you down and they pack a punch. It seems like the Geneva Convention wants us to play tag with inferior weapons and it would be a shame if anybody actually got killed in war.
The only part that has to do with geneva is the full metal jacket round. We as a nation decided on the 9mm because its what our NATO allies were carrying, yeah BS. Here is the real story, the army had decided to make the blackhawk its utility helicopter and replace the Huey. Italy expressed interest in buying the Hueys didn't want to pay what we wanted for them. At the same time the army wanted to quit using the 45 and the 38 for females, they wanted one weapon that could be fired by a male or female. They wanted high capacity double action with a safety. Of course the average woman's hand is smaller than that of an average man, and recoil is a factor too, The 38 was a good weapon and well suited for what it was used for, although I have taught my wife to shoot my 45 proficiently. Anyways our representatives in Washington elected to protect our interests in national politics decided in their infinite infallable wisdom to seal the deal with the Hueys buy offering a huge lucrative contract to Berretta, an Italian arms manufacturer, in exchange for the Italians buying our used Hueys. That contract was the army's new pistol which at the time was only able to be manufactured in 9mm. Our elected officials sold the military down the river to put money in their pockets. The Marine Corps said no thanks, but the politicians pushed DOD to have 1 universal side arm for all of the armed forces, the rest is history. The same thing with the M16. It was fielded to the army in the 50's by armalite, and the army said hell no its a piece of crap, its plastic it will break, the round is too small to incapacitate the enemy, and it blows carbon back into the bolt, that combined with the presence of dirt which is unavoidable in battle will cause it to jam. Armalite sold its plans to Colt who changed its name to the M16, and presented it to the army in the 60's. It failed the tests but that was covered up, and new tests were done within the capability of the weapon. It of course passed those tests. The M16 was adopted because of immense pressure by Colt, a company with extensive political connections. Bottom line is we were sold down the river in exchange for political favors and money by the people we elected to represent us. And wildeman people have gotten killed because of it, a lot of soldiers and Marines were found dead in Vietnam with their cleaning kits out trying to make their piece of crap weapons work. Several have been killed in Afghanistan with the M4 when they engage a target 10 times with their M4 before they are killed by jihadist taliban doped up on opium and islam.
When the Army changed to the 9mm Colt wanted it to be the Combat Comender, which it designed as a 9mm replacement to the .45ACP. Colts DA prototype, the All American was not ready in time for the test.
Two pistols pased the test the Beretta M9 and the SIG P225.
Due to the quantity purchased congress wanted it to be made in america. Beretta saw the civilian market for a DA 9MM pistol in the states and agreed to manufacture here.
When the Special Operations purchased the SIG, It wasnt because the Beretta didnt work, It was because SIG could get them the guns faster than anyone else could. Enough Berettas were not purchased for all SF and airborne soldiers to have one, the M4 was already on the way, just not in production yet.
When private security groups buy SIG's it is usually pre-owned lease returns. So it is one of the cheapest pistols they can get.
Remember that when you by that high priced SIG, or other european weapon, as much as 40% of the price you pay for it is the export tax from the country it is made in.
The price of a gun has very litle to do with its function and reliability often you are buying a name.
P.S. If you on Camp Pendleton you should shoot coyotes, ther's so many of the meanies.
To wittynbear: I'm a history nerd, it's great to see some light shed on how we ended up with the Beretta. I'd heard that about the M16 before. It's really sad, we use a round that sometime won't keep a coyote down. I've never heard anything good about the Beretta. I find it funny in a sad way that our m240s and 249s are from belgium and our side arms are Italian. I wonder how many American jobs that created? At least the Ma Deuce is American.
P.S. If you on Camp Pendleton you should shoot coyotes, ther's so many of the meanies.
I love the Ma Duece but it was too heavy for us, so we didn't use it. We liked to pack lots of heavy firepower but we went out in small teams for weeks at a time and had to carry food, lots of ammo, explosives, and several weapons. I have never been to Iraq I was wounded in Afghanistan and that ended my career. I heard through the grapevine that they experimented with putting us in vehicles, that is by far the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. I was never at Pendleton, I visited there for a week to see a friend but was never stationed there. I was stationed at Lejeune and Okinawa the whole time I was in, save for 3 years of MSG. I was never a hollywood Marine, didn't get issued a beach towel, suntan lotion, and sunglasses. [8D] I did go to CAX several times from Lejeune and encounter coyote's there. They were smart, they seemed to know we had MRE's and didn't have real rounds. We shattered their belief system when we managed to obtain .223 rounds. One shot to the head at about 50 ft and they drop like a rock. If you shoot them anywhere else they yelp and jump around for what seems like eternity, but really just long enough for a follow up shot.
The Beretta was made in the US. There is many articles on the internet about it. I like the Beretta and own one. Alot of the recent problems with it are due to age(many are about 20 years old). Most need depot level rebuilds. There are mot many excess in the system so it would be easier to buy new pistols.
On the ground you dont care where a gun is made only that it works.
Sorry to hear your career ended, I hope you've been able to put your life back on track. My career wasn't as illustious but I fell rappeling at Bridgeport and wrecked my neck and shoulder. That ended my reenlistment package in a hellfast and a hurry. I have some knowledge of what it's like. The civilian sector sucks. Good luck to you. Out of the three of us from my little hometown who went into the Marines I'm the only one who didn't get medboarded due to injuries sustained in combat. The other two have purple hearts and dog me, saying I took the easy road. They got medboarded too.
Ps: I'm still getting awful flashbacks from a bad case of sunburn I got chasing bikini clad women for PT. West coast Pt is brutal, do you know how hard it is to run in the sand and not spill your Mai-tai. I love those little unbrellas! I guess the West Coast is the best coast means nothing to you?
I have had several jobs and never really felt like I fit in. I drink too much, get up to early, have too much of a potty mouth, I feel like a fish out of water. I had a decent civilian job working for the army doing physical security. It was pretty cool I worked at the PMO for the Provost Marshal. We got a new PM who wanted to run things like it was sept 10 2001. We butted heads on many occasions, I come into work with a pretty bad hangover one day and in no mood for his crap. He come in my office yelling about security measures I put in place while he was on leave. I told him the garrison commander approved it in his absence. He flipped his retard switch and demanded that they be taken down. I told him I quit you take it down and go f--k yourself in front of the God and everybody. I found out he a (LtCol) is being reassigned in an Lt's position on a general's staff in Iraq, which is the only way he can salvage his career. I am looking for a job now. I am going to try police, security, or corrections. I really don't have any marketable job skills other than what I did in the Corps, and thats not in really high demand. I thought about blackwater but I think they are on their way down and don't want to be part of a sinking company. I need to get a job driving a truck for budweiser that would be pretty cool, but there are no beer distributors around here. I would go elsewhere but I am kind of tied down with a wife, kid, and house.
How did you fall rapelling? I never even heard of someone falling while rapelling, when I was there a guy who died he suffocated in his snow cave.
You think west coast pt is bad try okinawa pt. Chasing Japanese women to see if other things are slanted like their eyes. I don't know about Mai-Tai's but I know that its hard run and not spill a beer. West coast is not the best coast, although probably better than Swamp Lagoon, Okinawa is better, but embassy duty is the best.
Current production M2's are made in Belgum.
The Beretta was made in the US. There is many articles on the internet about it. I like the Beretta and own one. Alot of the recent problems with it are due to age(many are about 20 years old). Most need depot level rebuilds. There are mot many excess in the system so it would be easier to buy new pistols.
On the ground you dont care where a gun is made only that it works.
I have no question about the reliability of the beretta, for accuracy yes it needs to be rebuilt or replaced. The biggest problem with the beretta is its 9mm, and they can't fix that. You are almost better off pistol whipping the enemy than shooting them with the beretta.
After the first year of fighting in OIF the Army ammo surplus was almost totally depleted. All current production ammo was being shiped directly to Iraq and Afganastan. Due to demand the Army bought British ammo (5.56 and 9MM) for training. Knowing this I do support the NATO ammo theory.
If the Army switched calabers to something non NATO/Warsaw mid fight you may have something with more knockdown but there would be a siver ammo shortage. These are the only calabers that are set up for the production required of a war gun.
quote:Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato
Sorry to hear your career ended, I hope you've been able to put your life back on track. My career wasn't as illustious but I fell rappeling at Bridgeport and wrecked my neck and shoulder. That ended my reenlistment package in a hellfast and a hurry. I have some knowledge of what it's like. The civilian sector sucks. Good luck to you. Out of the three of us from my little hometown who went into the Marines I'm the only one who didn't get medboarded due to injuries sustained in combat. The other two have purple hearts and dog me, saying I took the easy road. They got medboarded too.
Ps: I'm still getting awful flashbacks from a bad case of sunburn I got chasing bikini clad women for PT. West coast Pt is brutal, do you know how hard it is to run in the sand and not spill your Mai-tai. I love those little unbrellas! I guess the West Coast is the best coast means nothing to you?
I have had several jobs and never really felt like I fit in. I drink too much, get up to early, have too much of a potty mouth, I feel like a fish out of water. I had a decent civilian job working for the army doing physical security. It was pretty cool I worked at the PMO for the Provost Marshal. We got a new PM who wanted to run things like it was sept 10 2001. We butted heads on many occasions, I come into work with a pretty bad hangover one day and in no mood for his crap. He come in my office yelling about security measures I put in place while he was on leave. I told him the garrison commander approved it in his absence. He flipped his retard switch and demanded that they be taken down. I told him I quit you take it down and go f--k yourself in front of the God and everybody. I found out he a (LtCol) is being reassigned in an Lt's position on a general's staff in Iraq, which is the only way he can salvage his career. I am looking for a job now. I am going to try police, security, or corrections. I really don't have any marketable job skills other than what I did in the Corps, and thats not in really high demand. I thought about blackwater but I think they are on their way down and don't want to be part of a sinking company. I need to get a job driving a truck for budweiser that would be pretty cool, but there are no beer distributors around here. I would go elsewhere but I am kind of tied down with a wife, kid, and house.
How did you fall rapelling? I never even heard of someone falling while rapelling, when I was there a guy who died he suffocated in his snow cave.
You think west coast pt is bad try okinawa pt. Chasing Japanese women to see if other things are slanted like their eyes. I don't know about Mai-Tai's but I know that its hard run and not spill a beer. West coast is not the best coast, although probably better than Swamp Lagoon, Okinawa is better, but embassy duty is the best.
I was trying to get around a crevice, got almost to a 45 degree angle, lost my footing, slammed head/shoulder first into a rock with my break hand behind my back. It was kind of like something Tarzan would do. Sucked it up for awhile 'cause thats what Marines do or so my Gunny said. A few months later we were training to do a raid/detainee extract and while mounting up my driver asked if we were up and I said "NO!" and he thought I said go. I got thrown out of the truck, couldn't use my arm so I got taken to medical and they said my shoulder was torn up and my collar bone had been broken for months along with signs I'd injured my neck. I hate civilan life, I'm in VOC-Rehab. It's a good program, better than the GI bill. My first job out I got into trouble for saying what needed to be said. And apparently, poor performing co-workers are not "b@#$%s" and can not be refered to as thus. I tried selling cars but with the way I walked, talked, and shook hands they were worried about getting robbed or getting beaten to death if they didn't agree with me. Now I'm going to school for law enforcement. You should look a seattle or anchorage. They're hiring.
That sucks, I guess your Gunny didn't know the difference between hurt and injured. If your hurt you suck it up, if your injured you get treated at the first availiable opportunity. I used to order my Marines to get checked out if I saw them limping, or favoring one arm or the other because some people confuse being hard with being stupid, like your Gunny. I don't want something minor keeping my guys out of the next firefight when it doesn't have to. On the same hand I have seen crybabys too, those admin or supply POGs who go spend all day at BAS to avoid work.
My first job out of the Corps. I tried working at target, I told the manager flat out that I couldn't stand stupid people and asked to be assigned stocking shelves at night. He put me on the floor during the day. I was wearing a red vest and a name tag it was obvious who I was. I had a lady ask me "Is your name Josh?" I said no maam I killed Josh, pissed on him and threw his dead decaying carcass in the dumpster. I am walking around with his uniform on to see how many people will ask me stupid questions. I guess the manager did not see the humor and fired me. I tried working at a gas station overnight, a guy come in with a knife to rob the place, I knew by the look in his eyes he was really scarred, so I told him to go away before he gets hurt. He jumped over the counter at me and I took his knife away from him and slapped him around a little bit and threw him out. The owner fired me for not calling him and the police, what a wus. I got the job with the army, they don't know how to treat people, and they act like a bunch of retards. I thought about Anchorage but they require you to go there twice in the hiring process. That is too far from alabama and not cheap for no guarantees, plus my wife hates the cold weather, especially when I turn off the heater because its too hot inside and I don't like the severe temp change from inside to out.
unfortinuately 9MM and 5.56 are what you get when you enlist/reenlist.
After the first year of fighting in OIF the Army ammo surplus was almost totally depleted. All current production ammo was being shiped directly to Iraq and Afganastan. Due to demand the Army bought British ammo (5.56 and 9MM) for training. Knowing this I do support the NATO ammo theory.
If the Army switched calabers to something non NATO/Warsaw mid fight you may have something with more knockdown but there would be a siver ammo shortage. These are the only calabers that are set up for the production required of a war gun.
We are one of the most industrialized nations. In WWII we turned out Millions of .30-06, .45 acp, and .30 carbine. Those weren't cartridges used by all the allies and they got the job done. Nato is a joke anyway. We shouldn't base the safety of our Marines and Soldiers on what Europe wants. We spend way to much time bending over for them and not enough time persecuting the people who like to set up IEDs and fly air planes into our buildings. Screw the Geneva convention, put an anti-armor .50bmg through a towelhead and see if he gets up after that!
Why not just issue the team leaders the colt submachine gun, full auto, 9mm version of the M4. Greatly improved knock down power at close range, when used with NATO 147 grain 9mm SMG ammo which we and many countries already produce and use in the MP5, UZI, Beretta SMG, and others. It uses mostly the same repair parts, can be used with all of the modular weapon system acesseries, i think it even uses the same ammo pouches. All things that must be adressed for a combat weapon. It would be like a modern day thommy gun. But a gun that can be filded rapidly so that it can make a impact on the wars that we are curently in.
It takes years to develop a rifle/round for military use. Even longer to test and field. Everyone always dreams of a perfict rifle that will never exist. Weapons mix will always give the best results, since no one gun can do it all. In that mix of machine guns, rifles and pistols, the full auto submachine gun is often needed for that up close knockdown power.
By the way I have seen people hit with the .50 cal. What else would you expect when someone is hit by a heavy MG other than that. I also spent plenty of time road marching with the 60 pound reciver on my ruck. Not very practical, very slow manuver. I think we averaged less than 3MPH. But then again young soldiers think the Barret is heavy.
The Apache is probably one of the best anti-tank helocopters in the world, and one of the worst close air support helocopters in the world. It is designed to fire from near the max engagement of its weapons, which is good for its survival but very bad for close in work. Maby I just have a grudge since I was almost shot by one providing my platoon CAS in Iraq(a burst of 50 HE cannon rounds hit literally less than 10ft away from me). The Cobra along with most Marine aircraft is very versital anything you need from anti-tank to CAS. Makes you wonder why the Army didnt keep them.
The Apache is probably one of the best anti-tank helocopters in the world, and one of the worst close air support helocopters in the world. It is designed to fire from near the max engagement of its weapons, which is good for its survival but very bad for close in work. Maby I just have a grudge since I was almost shot by one providing my platoon CAS in Iraq(a burst of 50 HE cannon rounds hit literally less than 10ft away from me). The Cobra along with most Marine aircraft is very versital anything you need from anti-tank to CAS. Makes you wonder why the Army didnt keep them.
Whatever happened to the Army's Comanche program anyway? Wasn't that supposed to be the best all around stealth helo ever?
I know the cammanche was done away with after all the money was spent on research and development. They even spent millions on a building dedicated to the commache with simulators and everything. About a week before it opened the program was cancelled now that building is used for something else, another square peg in a round hole, the military is good for that. As for the apache, I have had more accurate fire from 155mm howitzers 20k away. I don't know if its the apache thats a piece of crap or the pilot, but after almost being killed 2 out of 2 times, we said thats it no more apaches.
I'm starting to rethink my weapon of choice in Iraq. I was thinking... maybe something subtle... like an A-bomb. Maybe we should get the towelheads one for Ramadan?
I couldn't agree more I think we should repay them for all the favors they have done for us like a 757 stuffed full of pigs and fuel crashed into the middle of mecca on the holiest day of the muslim year, and send all of your favorite raghead dictators an Abomb for Christmas, special air delivery by the usaf.
The Army believes it can make up for lack of training with more tecnological gear. Look at the Land Warrior System, I wouldn't want to carry that crap. Soldiers now have so many optics, lasers, flashlights, and other crap yet they neglect to train with thier iron sights. This is not just another Jarhead bashing on the Army, that's coming from a my uncle and cousin who are both career Army. More gear, more weight, more MONEY!
The army, navy, and airforce all ask what does it do, and what does it cost. The Marines want to know what does that hunk of poop weigh.
so what rifle/pistol would you want to carry?
I would want to design my own rifle because I don't really like anything out there for rifles. I want something with a titanium body and bolt and a heavy tension bolt spring to pulverize dirt like the AK. I want a gas piston design to eliminate the carbon fouling problem of the M16 series rifles. I want a folding and collapsable stock for parachuting, and urban ops. It needs a flash suppressor, a nickel lined barrel and action for the dirty fire ability of the AK. I want a watertight bolt so the weapon can be fired completely or partially underwater. I want at least 30 round mags, I would be satisfied with the 7.62x51 even better would be .30cal (30.06). I want a long reinforced magazine well as on the M16 series. I want a selector lever for safe, semi, 2 shot burst instead of the 3, and full auto. I would want a 20mm barrel on the bottom that can fire a 20mm ap round to take out armor, and have a round made that fires a 20mm grenade well over the range of the 203. I want a bipod incorporated ointo the bottom of the rifle. I want folding reflex sights under the scope for daytime and IR lasers with nightvision and thermal imaging scope for nighttime I also want the scope to work in daytime with at least 10x magnification, along with backup iron sights. That about does it for a rifle, if it was manufactured it would be very expensive but well worth it. I estimate the weight without ammo and mags to be about 10 to 10 1/2 pounds, not much heavier than the M1 Garand with many more features. For a pistol I want a ParaOrdinance Hicap LDA 14.45 but I want it in traditional double action instead of DAO and I want it in black instead of stainless. This would be easy to manufacture but no one makes it. If I had to choose from available weapons I would take the SOCOM 16 with a collapsible stock and the ParaOrdinance 14.45 LDA.
And the 1911A1 with Novac sights, and CTC laser grips.
Have you ever shot a FAL? It is similar to the rifle you describe but in 7.62 NATO. Good gun but not quite my taste, You would probably like it.
Have you ever shot a FAL? It is similar to the rifle you describe but in 7.62 NATO. Good gun but not quite my taste, You would probably like it.
I have never shot the FAL but I have seen it a few times. I still want to build my own and someday when I win the lotto I will. First I have to get AL to have a lotto.
What I missed toward the end of my service was the LAW. While it didnt have the power of the AT4 it was small, light weight, built in range finder, and night sights. Only about 4 pounds everyone could carry one, no fancy rigging required to jump or repel it in. It was also alot more accurate.
I dont blame you for wanting to build your own gun. I have a idea for a air dropable ruberised track Infantry fighting vehicle of my own. Maby someday I will have the chance to build it.
so what rifle/pistol would you want to carry?
There will never be a firearm that meets all needs, really you have to pick and choose something that meets your mission's basic requirements without comprimising your ability to effectively close with and engage your enemy. I would choose something that puts 'em down and keeps 'em down. Many of the new Mission Adapdable Systems are heavy and have too many parts. I hated carrying the M16/m203 because it had to much weight on the forend for hasty off-hand shots. I would rather carry a seperate light wieght grenage launcher. Check out H&K, they have a couple of light weight options. If I had to go into a bad situation tommarrow I'd say it would be an M-14 SOCOM, I know alot of people say the whole "socom" stuff is for gear queers but thats not why I like it. It points fast and is compatable with many different optics, plus it has a round with some power and the balistics for some down range actiona and has tried and true reliablity. You could even mount a picatinny rail compatable grenade launcher on it. I would also carry a Sig Sauer P220 in .45acp or 1911. Who needs alot of rounds when a few well placed ones will do? If anybody hollers about needing high cap mags for suppression, I'm just saying this selection is for the rifleman only or a singlely armed individual not for a whole platoon who has to do fire and maneuver.
quote:Originally posted by wildeman.7.62nato
Whatever happened to the Army's Comanche program anyway? Wasn't that supposed to be the best all around stealth helo ever?
I know the cammanche was done away with after all the money was spent on research and development. They even spent millions on a building dedicated to the commache with simulators and everything. About a week before it opened the program was cancelled now that building is used for something else, another square peg in a round hole, the military is good for that. As for the apache, I have had more accurate fire from 155mm howitzers 20k away. I don't know if its the apache thats a piece of crap or the pilot, but after almost being killed 2 out of 2 times, we said thats it no more apaches.
To give the ARMY it's due, we had a couple of good Air support mission with Apaches.