.

I don't agree at all

mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 17,498 ✭✭✭
edited June 2017 in Politics
"We agreed on the need to free Americans from Obamacare's mandate so Americans are no longer forced to buy insurance they don't need or can't afford," McConnell said on the Senate floor Thursday.


So Americans go without health insurance and show up at the hospital when they get sick with no way to pay for it.

NO ONE plans on getting sick. No one plans on or goes out and buys leukemia! But they WILL show up at the Hospital and want treatment.

Therefore either sign a waiver to go without insurance and if you can't afford treatment we let you bleed to death outside the ER, OR everyone has to have some kind of insurance.

If you are a billionaire I suppose we can allow you a waiver and you can be self insured. How many others can do that?

That may be single payer or private but everyone should have to fund their own healthcare not rely on buying insurance after you get sick or showing up for the public to pick up the cost.

Add a premium surcharge for being fat and/or smoking or drinking but YES everyone should have to pay for their healthcare.
Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
«1

Comments

  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 10,847 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wonderful plan, mogley.

    So when everyone has to buy insurance, they'll go to the hospital every time they need a bandaid or an aspirin. Because they want to get their money's worth.

    And because they'll get paid by the insurance broker, the hospital can charge $100 or $1,000 for each bandaid and aspirin.

    And to cover that, the broker will eventually have to up everybody's premiums to a million dollars a year.

    So now, nobody can afford either the insurance or the medical care.

    Yup, GREAT plan there, bud.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 17,498 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Slow down Ace I only disagree that you can't go without and expect others to pay for it. Surely you don't want that?

    Easy fix for your scenario, high deductibles, that way you will NOT go to the hospital for a bandaide or Aspirin.

    You must have a great idea, so how would you fix all the people who go without and show up at the ER unable to pay?



    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    Wonderful plan, mogley.

    So when everyone has to buy insurance, they'll go to the hospital every time they need a bandaid or an aspirin. Because they want to get their money's worth.

    And because they'll get paid by the insurance broker, the hospital can charge $100 or $1,000 for each bandaid and aspirin.

    And to cover that, the broker will eventually have to up everybody's premiums to a million dollars a year.

    So now, nobody can afford either the insurance or the medical care.

    Yup, GREAT plan there, bud.
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • 1911a1-fan1911a1-fan Member Posts: 51,193 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    only people i have seen support obomocare yet to date are those that do not have it, they have no clue how crappy it is, but it makes them feel good that other people have an insurance card {even though they cant really use it}


    edit: i have it, and still cannot show up at an emergency room to use it without paying for most of the visit out of pocket
  • us55840us55840 Member Posts: 31,216 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Somehow, the libs/dems got everyone thinking that healthcare is a right......and that is wrong a zillion times plus!

    NO ONE has a RIGHT to healthcare.

    Healthcare, just like owning a home, life insurance, a motor vehicle, a vacation, etc. is something you get when.if YOU CAN AFFORD IT!

    Do you get it now?
    [8D]
    "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
  • jerrywh818jerrywh818 Member Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When the Government has the right to make you buy anything the potential for corruption is unlimited and inevitable. If you need insurance and don't buy it how in the hell is it the Republicans fault.
    If you need insurance go buy it. I pay for mine why should I pay for yours?? The reason the Rates are so high is because the government is in the middle. You pay for Government administration and insurance administration both. Anytime the Government subsidizes anything the price goes up. If you had a car for sale and the government was willing to pay for 1/2 of it you would raise the price because the consumer wouldn't care. That's how it works. Guess who pays the governments part.YOU. THINK.
  • Flying Clay DiskFlying Clay Disk Member Posts: 34,743 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    How about this...

    Fund doctors and hospitals with tax dollars and KILL insurance altogether. Establish the DEATH PENALTY for frivolous lawsuits, for both attorney AND plaintiff (...and kill the attorney twice). Establish a realistic benchmark for "gross negligence", and throw any lawsuit out of the system for less than gross negligence. Punitive damages and "pain & suffering" are no longer compensable for medical malpractice.

    The sole reason healthcare costs are so high is because of lawsuits. Solve this problem, and you solve the healthcare crisis. Period.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,466 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
    What's next?
  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431
    edited November -1
    Mandatory insurance is un American. We don't need health insurance, we need competitive health care. Competition dives pricing to a natural level. Insurance companies drive the cost of health care and that is backwards. People get sick and die no matter which system we finally choose. The path we are on guarantees the enrichment of the insurers, who don't actually accomplish any health care.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,466 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
    only people i have seen support obomocare yet to date are those that do not have it, they have no clue how crappy it is, but it makes them feel good that other people have an insurance card {even though they cant really use it}


    edit: i have it, and still cannot show up at an emergency room to use it without paying for most of the visit out of pocket


    That would really suck. What about typical non-emergency room visits and care, Dan?
    What's next?
  • BoltactionManBoltactionMan Member Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm sure I have this wrong, so be kind but...

    No matter who you would be, any familial status. You have a lower or moderate income, you register for a plan and the premium is higher than you can afford. So there is a subsidy from the taxpayers to help you pay.

    The plan is blown, the insurance companies are bailing out, the remaining ones are jacking up premiums and deductibles. So the plan you can't afford now has a humongous deductible, which you can't afford.

    So do you really have insurance? Or just a feel good piece of paper? So you do without and you get gigged with tax penalty.

    Seems we should be smarter than this. And politicians want to cling to this plan.

    KC
  • 1911a1-fan1911a1-fan Member Posts: 51,193 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
    only people i have seen support obomocare yet to date are those that do not have it, they have no clue how crappy it is, but it makes them feel good that other people have an insurance card {even though they cant really use it}


    edit: i have it, and still cannot show up at an emergency room to use it without paying for most of the visit out of pocket


    That would really suck. What about typical non-emergency room visits and care, Dan?


    to see a doctor i have to go to a third world clinic and wait 3 hours on average with a 75 dollar co pay, my normal doctor was 120 out of pocket, a colonoscopy and ct scan are each 600.00 out of pocket, blood test are all out of pocket till i meet the 2500.00 deductible

    all this on top of 1200.00 a month now, when i could just take my tax returns to the clinic and get this PAY EVEN LESS without the monthly premium

    one my prescriptions cheaper than the co pay, one is 7.00 more



    edit: my out of pocket max is 16,900 including premiums and that is just routine visits and test

    WE HAD GREAT INSURANCE TILL OBOMO CANNED IT 480.00 a month, covered everything
  • 84Bravo184Bravo1 Member Posts: 11,109
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by skicat
    Mandatory insurance is un American. We don't need health insurance, we need competitive health care. Competition dives pricing to a natural level. Insurance companies drive the cost of health care and that is backwards. People get sick and die no matter which system we finally choose. The path we are on guarantees the enrichment of the insurers, who don't actually accomplish any health care.



    Bingo.


    Well said Skicat.

    I agree, 100%.



    Why should I bust my * at work, to earn my living, and then get taxed to pay for your Lazy * to sit at home??


    Epic Fail.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,466 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
    only people i have seen support obomocare yet to date are those that do not have it, they have no clue how crappy it is, but it makes them feel good that other people have an insurance card {even though they cant really use it}


    edit: i have it, and still cannot show up at an emergency room to use it without paying for most of the visit out of pocket


    That would really suck. What about typical non-emergency room visits and care, Dan?


    to see a doctor i have to go to a third world clinic and wait 3 hours on average with a 75 dollar co pay, my normal doctor was 120 out of pocket, a colonoscopy and ct scan are each 600.00 out of pocket, blood test are all out of pocket till i meet the 2500.00 deductible

    all this on top of 1200.00 a month now, when i could just take my tax returns to the clinic and get this PAY EVEN LESS without the monthly premium

    one my prescriptions cheaper than the co pay, one is 7.00 more



    edit: my out of pocket max is 16,900 including premiums and that is just routine visits and test

    WE HAD GREAT INSURANCE TILL OBOMO CANNED IT 480.00 a month, covered everything


    Horror story, Dan. I think the $480.00 per month was similar to what I paid before I retired.

    What do you think might be the best outcome we can reasonably hope for on this issue in the short term?
    What's next?
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 10,847 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If we are going to make health insurance mandatory, make it like auto insurance (which already is mandatory.)

    Insurance companies can compete for your business by offering good benefits at a discount.

    The insurance does NOT cover every need like wiper blades and oil changes. It is for catastrophic damage.

    Repair companies compete for your business by offering better service at discount prices.

    Follow those three examples and the "health care insurance problem" takes care of itself. In short, get the goobermint the hell out of the picture and let competitive business thrive.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • 1911a1-fan1911a1-fan Member Posts: 51,193 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kimi


    What do you think might be the best outcome we can reasonably hope for on this issue in the short term?



    well they broke a system that wasnt broke to begin with

    get rid of mandatory job requirements , many lost work with the 32 hour requirement, and this is still unaddressed as well as the outright lie of keeping your doctor

    forcing people to buy insurance is asinine as forcing everyone to buy a boat

    handing out a medical card would be cheaper than the subsidies tax payers fork out for now
  • hunter86004hunter86004 Member Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When my wife decided to retire at age 50, we got a catastrophic policy from Blue Cross with a $5000 deductible without any frills for $210 per month. Figured we could pay any dr visits and meds out of pocket.

    Enter Obama care. Got a letter from Blue Cross that our policy did not meet the new government coverage requirements and we had to be covered for drug treatment and maternity, even though we are not drug users and pregnancy would be medically impossible. It really felt good to pay $420 per month, $210 of which was for something we'd never use.

    Obama care with it's one size fits all really sucked for the year before my wife decided to return to her old job and we got off it.
  • grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 53,466
    edited November -1
    While at Jury duty had time to talk to folks while we waited. It would surprise you how many from this area hate Obama Care and how much their insurance is now with its high deductibles.
  • gunnut505gunnut505 Member Posts: 10,290
    edited November -1
    The simplest fix would be for doctors and hospitals to publish their menu of prices.
    That's what an informed citizen needs, not mandatory wealthcare.
    (d)s love the idea of taxing taxpayers for not complying with their idiocy, and not calling it a tax.

    Scenario for those of you with jobs:
    You reach for a pencil and your chest feels like somebody stuck a porcupine inside it. You suddenly have a LOT of trouble getting air in & out of your lungs. Your legs just feel tired. Your arms get really heavy, and you think," What the ????#960; is going on?!"
    Will your insurance cover the ER charge for $500?
    Can it cover any of the costs associated with a Cardiac Catheterization Lab & The horde of techs, nurses, surgeons, all the dyes & exploratory testing & interpretations?
    Does it cover hospitalization for 3-8 weeks for a simple, affordable deductible?
    I thought mine would, but I was stuck with a bill for $173,000 left over. I had $25,000 in the bank and couldn't work until I got cleared, and that could be months, potentially.
    Circumstances dictated that I request assistance from Medicaid, which covered the remainder of the medical costs. Medicaid insisted on signing me up for SSDI, since I hadn't been cleared to go back to work.
    That $25K had to last 2 years 11 months, until the Disability would have a final action to decide if I deserved it, or something.

    Long story short, it's only because I worked for 52 years, paying for the taxpayer funding of the social security/Medicare Ponzi scheme that it worked as it should in my case.
    There really are disabled folks that aren't getting rich off the program, and the chances are good that one of you might become one of "them".
  • pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,225 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why can't we go back like it was...if you have insurance you get admitted?...if you don't have insurance, you go with out..
  • Dads3040Dads3040 Member Posts: 13,788
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    If we are going to make health insurance mandatory, make it like auto insurance (which already is mandatory.)

    Insurance companies can compete for your business by offering good benefits at a discount.

    The insurance does NOT cover every need like wiper blades and oil changes. It is for catastrophic damage.

    Repair companies compete for your business by offering better service at discount prices.

    Follow those three examples and the "health care insurance problem" takes care of itself. In short, get the goobermint the hell out of the picture and let competitive business thrive.

    You have covered it well, Rocky. Under ObamaCare, my 23 yo single son is required to have a policy that covers lactation therapy and geriatric care.

    Why? Because having young people paying for coverage they do not need and cannot use means extra funds available to subsidize coverage for desired interest groups. Such as the reliable elder voters and the useless dependent class.

    Before ObamaCare, my son could have purchased a catastrophic coverage policy and relied on his youth and good health to take care of everything else.
  • calrugerfancalrugerfan Member Posts: 18,209
    edited November -1
    Politicians are exempt. Their retirement is guaranteed as is their healthcare. So why on Earth do they need to fix it?
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,814 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by skicat
    Mandatory insurance is un American. We don't need health insurance, we need competitive health care. Competition dives pricing to a natural level. Insurance companies drive the cost of health care and that is backwards. People get sick and die no matter which system we finally choose. The path we are on guarantees the enrichment of the insurers, who don't actually accomplish any health care.

    I agree 100% with you in a perfect world, but we both know insurance based health care is not going away.

    The costs for both insurance and the actual care are OUT OF CONTROL. I pay almost 9K a year for my plan,....which is excellent BTW. $500.00 deductible, $2,500.00 max out of pocket, which includes prescriptions.

    Here's where the issue is. I can easily afford this due to the amount of money I make. On the other hand, I personally know some good folks that work hard, but don't make a lot of money. What I pay for insurance would take 1/3 or more of their net pay for the year.

    I know one guy that is having obvious hypertension/heart issues, but he can't afford to see a doctor or the almost certain prescriptions, so he ignores it. He falls in that gap where he can't go to the county health clinic, and can't get prescription assistance from the drug manufacturers.

    There is a small slice of the population that are good people that fall in between the assistance deadbeats, and those that are doing well. Those are the ones I feel sorry for.
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,466 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by gunnut505
    The simplest fix would be for doctors and hospitals to publish their menu of prices.
    That's what an informed citizen needs, not mandatory wealthcare.
    (d)s love the idea of taxing taxpayers for not complying with their idiocy, and not calling it a tax.

    Scenario for those of you with jobs:
    You reach for a pencil and your chest feels like somebody stuck a porcupine inside it. You suddenly have a LOT of trouble getting air in & out of your lungs. Your legs just feel tired. Your arms get really heavy, and you think," What the ????#960; is going on?!"
    Will your insurance cover the ER charge for $500?
    Can it cover any of the costs associated with a Cardiac Catheterization Lab & The horde of techs, nurses, surgeons, all the dyes & exploratory testing & interpretations?
    Does it cover hospitalization for 3-8 weeks for a simple, affordable deductible?
    I thought mine would, but I was stuck with a bill for $173,000 left over. I had $25,000 in the bank and couldn't work until I got cleared, and that could be months, potentially.
    Circumstances dictated that I request assistance from Medicaid, which covered the remainder of the medical costs. Medicaid insisted on signing me up for SSDI, since I hadn't been cleared to go back to work.
    That $25K had to last 2 years 11 months, until the Disability would have a final action to decide if I deserved it, or something.

    Long story short, it's only because I worked for 52 years, paying for the taxpayer funding of the social security/Medicare Ponzi scheme that it worked as it should in my case.
    There really are disabled folks that aren't getting rich off the program, and the chances are good that one of you might become one of "them".


    Something that is not often stated.
    What's next?
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,466 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
    quote:Originally posted by skicat
    Mandatory insurance is un American. We don't need health insurance, we need competitive health care. Competition dives pricing to a natural level. Insurance companies drive the cost of health care and that is backwards. People get sick and die no matter which system we finally choose. The path we are on guarantees the enrichment of the insurers, who don't actually accomplish any health care.

    I agree 100% with you in a perfect world, but we both know insurance based health care is not going away.

    The costs for both insurance and the actual care are OUT OF CONTROL. I pay almost 9K a year for my plan,....which is excellent BTW. $500.00 deductible, $2,500.00 max out of pocket, which includes prescriptions.

    Here's where the issue is. I can easily afford this due to the amount of money I make. On the other hand, I personally know some good folks that work hard, but don't make a lot of money. What I pay for insurance would take 1/3 or more of their net pay for the year.

    I know one guy that is having obvious hypertension/heart issues, but he can't afford to see a doctor or the almost certain prescriptions, so he ignores it. He falls in that gap where he can't go to the county health clinic, and can't get prescription assistance from the drug manufacturers.

    There is a small slice of the population that are good people that fall in between the assistance deadbeats, and those that are doing well. Those are the ones I feel sorry for.


    Thank you, Mark.
    What's next?
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,807 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


    It will play out as intended by Obama....it will drag out until Obamacare collapses, the republicans will likely take the blame for it, get killed at an election down the road giving the majority back to the Dems who will usher in single payer, Government healthcare.

    As long as pre-existing conditions are guaranteed to be covered, with out higher premiums, as long as there is no tort reform, and no mandate no realistic, successful solution will be found.
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 38,925
    edited November -1
    oh my...then how will the millions of illegals get medical care for FREE
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,466 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


    It will play out as intended by Obama....it will drag out until Obamacare collapses, the republicans will likely take the blame for it, get killed at an election down the road giving the majority back to the Dems who will usher in single payer, Government healthcare.

    As long as pre-existing conditions are guaranteed to be covered, with out higher premiums, as long as there is no tort reform, and no mandate no realistic, successful solution will be found.


    That certainly comes to mind.
    What's next?
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,814 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


    It will play out as intended by Obama....it will drag out until Obamacare collapses, the republicans will likely take the blame for it, get killed at an election down the road giving the majority back to the Dems who will usher in single payer, Government healthcare.

    As long as pre-existing conditions are guaranteed to be covered, with out higher premiums, as long as there is no tort reform, and no mandate no realistic, successful solution will be found.

    I agree with higher premiums for people getting coverage for the first time, or after a period of being uninsured.

    On the other hand I don't agree that it should be broadly applied to people like myself that have maintained continuous health care coverage since my early twenties. Of course I have pre-existing conditions at the age of 55, but they were not pre-existing to having insurance coverage.

    Trust me, over all the years I have had insurance versus what they have had to pay out on me, the insurance companies have made nice hefty profits. I have paid in considerably more than they have paid out on my behalf.
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • Dads3040Dads3040 Member Posts: 13,788
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
    quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


    It will play out as intended by Obama....it will drag out until Obamacare collapses, the republicans will likely take the blame for it, get killed at an election down the road giving the majority back to the Dems who will usher in single payer, Government healthcare.

    As long as pre-existing conditions are guaranteed to be covered, with out higher premiums, as long as there is no tort reform, and no mandate no realistic, successful solution will be found.

    I agree with higher premiums for people getting coverage for the first time, or after a period of being uninsured.

    On the other hand I don't agree that it should be broadly applied to people like myself that have maintained continuous health care coverage since my early twenties. Of course I have pre-existing conditions at the age of 55, but they were not pre-existing to having insurance coverage.

    Trust me, over all the years I have had insurance versus what they have had to pay out on me, the insurance companies have made nice hefty profits. I have paid in considerably more than they have paid out on my behalf.

    'Pre-existing conditions' are a creation of tax law that ties insurance to employment. Changing tax law to allow people to purchase their own insurance as individuals, rather than through a plan provided by their employer would mostly eliminate the pre-existing condition problem.

    As with so many things, the involvement of the government has caused the healthcare/insurance market to become *.
  • jerrywh818jerrywh818 Member Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We don't need insurance. We need healthcare. There is a difference. Too many people in the middle have horned their way in.
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,814 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Dads3040
    quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
    quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


    It will play out as intended by Obama....it will drag out until Obamacare collapses, the republicans will likely take the blame for it, get killed at an election down the road giving the majority back to the Dems who will usher in single payer, Government healthcare.

    As long as pre-existing conditions are guaranteed to be covered, with out higher premiums, as long as there is no tort reform, and no mandate no realistic, successful solution will be found.

    I agree with higher premiums for people getting coverage for the first time, or after a period of being uninsured.

    On the other hand I don't agree that it should be broadly applied to people like myself that have maintained continuous health care coverage since my early twenties. Of course I have pre-existing conditions at the age of 55, but they were not pre-existing to having insurance coverage.

    Trust me, over all the years I have had insurance versus what they have had to pay out on me, the insurance companies have made nice hefty profits. I have paid in considerably more than they have paid out on my behalf.

    'Pre-existing conditions' are a creation of tax law that ties insurance to employment. Changing tax law to allow people to purchase their own insurance as individuals, rather than through a plan provided by their employer would mostly eliminate the pre-existing condition problem.

    As with so many things, the involvement of the government has caused the healthcare/insurance market to become *.

    I believe that employer provided health insurance was one of the worst things to ever happen. It largely detached people from the true cost of healthcare in general, and ingrained the "I am entitled to free/cheap healthcare" mantra that widely exists today.

    It's a benefit, not a responsibility anymore.

    PS: I have employer provided health insurance too,...it still costs me 9k a year though. One of the instances where it's a bummer to be both employee/employer as it's coming out of one of my pockets regardless.[:)]
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 30,917 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mogley98
    Slow down Ace I only disagree that you can't go without and expect others to pay for it. Surely you don't want that?

    Easy fix for your scenario, high deductibles, that way you will NOT go to the hospital for a bandaide or Aspirin.

    You must have a great idea, so how would you fix all the people who go without and show up at the ER unable to pay?



    quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
    Wonderful plan, mogley.

    So when everyone has to buy insurance, they'll go to the hospital every time they need a bandaid or an aspirin. Because they want to get their money's worth.

    And because they'll get paid by the insurance broker, the hospital can charge $100 or $1,000 for each bandaid and aspirin.

    And to cover that, the broker will eventually have to up everybody's premiums to a million dollars a year.

    So now, nobody can afford either the insurance or the medical care.

    Yup, GREAT plan there, bud.



    Wrong question Sir.

    The question is why is the federal government involved in health care at all? The states can take care of their citizens much better than the Federal Monster can. If Ohio sends 4 billion to DC the feds strip 30% for operating expenses and stupid regulations then send the remainder back to the states with moronic mandates that serve few except for DC wealth, corruption and crony capitalism.

    Cut out the middle man.

    Get the feds the hell out of health care. If you want to see the PERFECT example of Federal Healthcare in action look no further than the VA nightmare. When the VA does not like the results of investigations they simply lie; changing nothing letting more vets die.
  • jerrywh818jerrywh818 Member Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bpost.
    Some states can and some states can't. Oregon sure as heck can't. Oregon can't even set up an exchange with $350,000,000.00 from the feds. Money gone, nobody knows where. Illinois can't even pay the lottery winners. Good luck there. This does not mean I am in favor of a Federal program. I don't think the Gov. should have one thing to do with it. Medicaid fine but they better qualify. I see guys ten times my condition on 100% disability. my stepson's girl friend is on 100% disability and she works as a dental assistant making $65,000.00 pr year. They live in a $700,000.00 home in Seattle. I'm 80 and working part time to pay property tax. Mad as Hell.
  • SCOUT5SCOUT5 Member Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So many people do not understand the concept of insurance, what it is supposed to be, or when they may benefit from purchasing it. Insurance is financial protection for yourself or other entity that purchases it. How insurance and healthcare became so convoluted is a long explanation and I don't care to write it, no doubt I would leave to much out anyway.

    If you want to fix the runaway cost of health care it's simple. Demand truth in billing, establish a free market, and get the government out of it as much as is possible.

    Catastrophic health insurance plans are the same as auto or home insurance, they are for your financial protection, not so an insurance company can manipulate the market. Every dollar insurance companies spend on healthcare comes with at least a 20% premium. They return about $800 for every $1000 paid into them, and it's really not that much. Americans are not under insured, we, on the whole, are over insured. Being over insured drive the overall price of healthcare up.

    The leading cause of inflated healthcare cost is the government followed by insurance companies. A very large percentage of the cost of healthcare is the money it takes to baby sit all the government agencies and regulations that come with them. Administration hours are through the roof. Tack on the extra hours devoted to dotting I's and crossing T's for insurance companies and the %20 premium the they take, and there is more money spent baby sitting government and insurance companies then there is spent on patient care.
  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Member Posts: 35,484 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by skicat
    Mandatory insurance is un American. We don't need health insurance, we need competitive health care. Competition dives pricing to a natural level. Insurance companies drive the cost of health care and that is backwards. People get sick and die no matter which system we finally choose. The path we are on guarantees the enrichment of the insurers, who don't actually accomplish any health care.
    YES!
  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 17,498 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think it would be great IF we could get Government out of Healthcare.

    Medicare/Medicaid is one of the largest payers for health services by the way.

    A lot of people seem to forget or ignore the fact is people who choose to go without don't choose to die. They still expect and want treatment.

    If this county could stomach allowing those who choose to go without to die that would be great!

    BUT it isn't going to happen, so somehow, either single payer or insurance someone has to pay the bill or it gets shared by those who do pay.

    My whole point is as "Unamerican" as it is to require insurance, can you pony up 100K for your care? If not are you willing to go lay in a corner and die? Good for you if you are if not how do we get the money for your care when you chose to go without coverage?


    I have what amounts to catastrophic coverage, I pay 12K a year for crappy insurance that doesn't pony up a dime until the wife and I have paid out 6500 a piece then it would cover us for the amount over that.

    SO for a minimum of 18,500 before the insurance company could take a hit. I would be fine with this coverage IF it was 200 a month like it should be.
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • us55840us55840 Member Posts: 31,216 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Once again, the government got their hands on somethings that was functioning reasonably well 'as is.'

    However, the politicians (majority) decided to 'fix it better'

    Hence, the politicans CREATED a horrible mess so they can 'fix it' ...
    hence job security![;)][}:)]
    "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
  • mlincolnmlincoln Member Posts: 5,039 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    How to fix it:

    1. Have doctors kill people. A huge slice of health care costs come at the end of life. Because we are Americans and because we believe that every problem can be solved, including death, the last three months of our lives most of us are in the hospital, in the ICU, constantly visiting the doctor, etc. It's a horrible routine, it's awful for the patient and doctor, and you still die anyway. If you're 82, have diabetes, are in poor health, and fall and break your hip, it's time to go. You don't need a $120,000 hip replacement and a $140,000 five months in a nursing home only to die of pneumonia. You've had a good run. It's time to say goodbye. You get a two-night stay in the hospital with some good painkillers, a final visit from the family, and then goodbye.

    Along with this, have doctors kill young people who have horrible genetic conditions. There's a teenager, one kid, in Iowa who has hemophilia. His care costs $1,000,000 a month. Yes, a million dollars a month. Assuming he survives, it's going to be a million dollars a month for the rest of his life. It's a terrible condition, a tremendous shame, but we must acknowledge that he is sucking up a huge amount of the health care dollars available to help all. And he's not the only case like that. If your health care is chronically going to cost more than $10,000 a month, I think we need to look at whether or not it's a life worth living.

    2. Health insurances costs 3 times as much for fat people, 6 times as much for fat people who smoke. Sorry, but them's the breaks. Fat smokers suck up a huge amount of health dollars, and that's by choice. Put down the Lucky Strike and the Whopper and work out 5 times a week and you risk of developing cancer or heart disease or diabetes plummets.
  • mrmike08075mrmike08075 Member Posts: 11,831 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Fyi...

    I had already made my appointment with the hospice care staff - nurses...

    I had the end of life consult with my docs and the palliative care docs...

    Since the consensus was that I would be dead soon and that it would be unpleasant and that the option on the table - treatment recommendation was morphine and bed rest...

    You essentially starve to death - either asleep or in a morphine induced coma.

    It's not expensive cars - it's not a particular burden on the system...

    But I am still alive - and will beat the cancer this time - delaying the death sentance - deferring the hospice solution.

    I am 45 - not in my 80's...

    I won't live to see 50 most likely - and I will die a horrible death - in unimaginable pain despite the hospice care and tell morphine assisted suicide method...

    Or do you begrudge me this time???

    Should I just eat a bullet and step aside???

    I pay my taxes and have a job and insurance and always have done so...

    What's this last part of my life worth???

    Maybe you would like to put the gun to my head and save the rest of you some money...

    I hope you get a terminal illness - cancer - something that brings unimaginable pain and suffering...

    So you can feel the pain and the panic and go through the ordeal of targeted radiation therapy and chemotherapy treatments.

    So your family and loved ones can be their to share it.

    Will you go out as you have suggested???

    I have fought and suffered and lived - if only for a little more time.

    F-you

    Burn in hell.

    Mike
  • mag00mag00 Member Posts: 4,668
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mogley98
    "We agreed on the need to free Americans from Obamacare's mandate so Americans are no longer forced to buy insurance they don't need or can't afford," McConnell said on the Senate floor Thursday.


    So Americans go without health insurance and show up at the hospital when they get sick with no way to pay for it.

    NO ONE plans on getting sick. No one plans on or goes out and buys leukemia! But they WILL show up at the Hospital and want treatment.

    Therefore either sign a waiver to go without insurance and if you can't afford treatment we let you bleed to death outside the ER, OR everyone has to have some kind of insurance.

    If you are a billionaire I suppose we can allow you a waiver and you can be self insured. How many others can do that?

    That may be single payer or private but everyone should have to fund their own healthcare not rely on buying insurance after you get sick or showing up for the public to pick up the cost.

    Add a premium surcharge for being fat and/or smoking or drinking but YES everyone should have to pay for their healthcare.





    Seems very few plan on being healthy.
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