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What the fiasco known as "Obamacare" has done is now the popular belief is that health care is a right, to be furnished by the Government, whether you want it or not.
The problems in the health care industry ten years ago could have been
eased without all the hell we have been thru since. Costs were out of hand and Government interference was already making it worse.
I would really like to know who has benefited from the past 8 years of this mess.
I know people that not only lost their health insurance, but their jobs because of it. I personally know no one who gained from it.
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
If we, as a country, demand that health care facilities must provide treatment, regardless of ability to pay, then we must also demand that people buy insurance that they do not want....because we simply cannot afford to pay for the former without the support of the latter.
It really is as simple as that.
"We" as a country do not demand everybody get health care or other services for free, the rest of your argument falls apart.
The basis of the problem is the people. at least 40% of the people don't seem to understand where the government gets it's money from.
Benjamin Franklin warned us about this in the 1700's. Then the politicians pander to the stupid people to provide their demands. The trick for them is to figure out how to make them pay for the so called free stuff without them knowing it. Lately that isn't hard. About 70% of college kids think they can get free college. What they don't know is they will have to pay for everybody else for the rest of their lives.
Argentina here we come.
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
quote:Originally posted by skicat
Mandatory insurance is un American. We don't need health insurance, we need competitive health care. Competition dives pricing to a natural level. Insurance companies drive the cost of health care and that is backwards. People get sick and die no matter which system we finally choose. The path we are on guarantees the enrichment of the insurers, who don't actually accomplish any health care.
I agree 100% with you in a perfect world, but we both know insurance based health care is not going away.
I expect you are right but it really sticks in my craw to admit it. It is like accepting your grocery bill will double because the whole family now has tapeworms and nobody wants to even discus getting rid of them as it is easier to just pay more for groceries.
The costs for both insurance and the actual care are OUT OF CONTROL. I pay almost 9K a year for my plan,....which is excellent BTW. $500.00 deductible, $2,500.00 max out of pocket, which includes prescriptions.
Here's where the issue is. I can easily afford this due to the amount of money I make. On the other hand, I personally know some good folks that work hard, but don't make a lot of money. What I pay for insurance would take 1/3 or more of their net pay for the year.
I know one guy that is having obvious hypertension/heart issues, but he can't afford to see a doctor or the almost certain prescriptions, so he ignores it. He falls in that gap where he can't go to the county health clinic, and can't get prescription assistance from the drug manufacturers.
There is a small slice of the population that are good people that fall in between the assistance deadbeats, and those that are doing well. Those are the ones I feel sorry for.
only our congress would make a plan so complicated that they would have to have agencies in every state to explain...Kansas had 40 options...and SUBSIDIES ?????...way stupid..either it is affordable or NOT
Dead beats and illegals know there's free healthcare at the ER. Oh and the Emergency ambulance is treated like a taxi by them too.
Yep that's why there's so many in the waiting area. Guess who's footing their bills?
If NARCAN is free to dying drug addict OD's why is life saving/prolonging drugs not also free to those in need?
seems to me the plans to give tax credits or subsidies to some sounds like the old mines who hired miners, paid them work, required them to live in mine houses, and buy everything at the mine store...and eventually move away with nothing
Comments
The problems in the health care industry ten years ago could have been
eased without all the hell we have been thru since. Costs were out of hand and Government interference was already making it worse.
I would really like to know who has benefited from the past 8 years of this mess.
I know people that not only lost their health insurance, but their jobs because of it. I personally know no one who gained from it.
If we, as a country, demand that health care facilities must provide treatment, regardless of ability to pay, then we must also demand that people buy insurance that they do not want....because we simply cannot afford to pay for the former without the support of the latter.
It really is as simple as that.
"We" as a country do not demand everybody get health care or other services for free, the rest of your argument falls apart.
Insurance is not healthcare either.
Benjamin Franklin warned us about this in the 1700's. Then the politicians pander to the stupid people to provide their demands. The trick for them is to figure out how to make them pay for the so called free stuff without them knowing it. Lately that isn't hard. About 70% of college kids think they can get free college. What they don't know is they will have to pay for everybody else for the rest of their lives.
Argentina here we come.
quote:Originally posted by skicat
Mandatory insurance is un American. We don't need health insurance, we need competitive health care. Competition dives pricing to a natural level. Insurance companies drive the cost of health care and that is backwards. People get sick and die no matter which system we finally choose. The path we are on guarantees the enrichment of the insurers, who don't actually accomplish any health care.
I agree 100% with you in a perfect world, but we both know insurance based health care is not going away.
I expect you are right but it really sticks in my craw to admit it. It is like accepting your grocery bill will double because the whole family now has tapeworms and nobody wants to even discus getting rid of them as it is easier to just pay more for groceries.
The costs for both insurance and the actual care are OUT OF CONTROL. I pay almost 9K a year for my plan,....which is excellent BTW. $500.00 deductible, $2,500.00 max out of pocket, which includes prescriptions.
Here's where the issue is. I can easily afford this due to the amount of money I make. On the other hand, I personally know some good folks that work hard, but don't make a lot of money. What I pay for insurance would take 1/3 or more of their net pay for the year.
I know one guy that is having obvious hypertension/heart issues, but he can't afford to see a doctor or the almost certain prescriptions, so he ignores it. He falls in that gap where he can't go to the county health clinic, and can't get prescription assistance from the drug manufacturers.
There is a small slice of the population that are good people that fall in between the assistance deadbeats, and those that are doing well. Those are the ones I feel sorry for.
Yep that's why there's so many in the waiting area. Guess who's footing their bills?
If NARCAN is free to dying drug addict OD's why is life saving/prolonging drugs not also free to those in need?