.

Victim of the NRA.............................

Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭
Thought I would post this here, instead of GD for a change.

As many of you know, my NRA membership ends this November, and I have vowed to not renew for reasons we all know.

The gun range that I belong to has required the primary member (me), to be an NRA member.
Several of the members petitioned to have GOA accepted as an alternative. I thought it was going to fly, as they don't need to lose any more members.

Found out Friday via e-mail from the prez of the range, that if I do not renew my membership with the NRA, I will not be able to renew my membership at the range for next year.
I don't know how they have so much influence there, but it disgusts me, as I have met many folks there, and enjoy the facilities.

Really hate to leave, but I am standing on principle, with a few other members that are in the same boat. I returned his mail suggesting once again, to accept "alternatives", and that under NO circumstances would I be renewing my NRA membership.

I presume I will be trying to find a new place to shoot after the first of the year.[xx(]
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
«1

Comments

  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,998
    edited November -1
    but I am standing on principle


    Marc, good man.[;)] Seems few people nowadays are doing that; just look at the "choices" we have for POTUS.



    Ron Paul 2008[:D]
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wsfiredude
    but I am standing on principle


    Marc, good man.[;)] Seems few people nowadays are doing that; just look at the "choices" we have for POTUS.



    Ron Paul 2008[:D]



    Thanks,.......and you already know where my vote is going, but this makes me pretty darn angry. I am trying to not use foul language, and upset Pickenups acid reflux.[:D]

    Guess I will wait until later in the week for a response, but I don't think they will bend.
    I just wish I knew what they were getting to be more willing to lose a longstanding member, that is also a "fill-in" rangemaster, than to accept my GOA card.

    I have changed many opinions from reading a lot of stuff here, and I will stand by what I say.

    I do have a friend that is a general contractor, that only lives a bit further from me than the range is. He has 50 plus acres, and has a huge dirt backstop out there. I have been told I am welcome at any time,.........probably my new shooting place!
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    If a man cannot stand on principal, what is there about that man to admire.

    Well done Marc.

    Even if you have to find another range, you have stood up for what you believe and you have also sent a message that more people need to hear.

    The NRA is not the only game in town and they are simply a "false idol". It may be that this message will start to sink in with some of these knuckleheads.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
    quote:Originally posted by wsfiredude
    but I am standing on principle


    Marc, good man.[;)] Seems few people nowadays are doing that; just look at the "choices" we have for POTUS.



    Ron Paul 2008[:D]



    Thanks,.......and you already know where my vote is going, but this makes me pretty darn angry. I am trying to not use foul language, and upset Pickenups acid reflux.[:D]

    Guess I will wait until later in the week for a response, but I don't think they will bend.
    I just wish I knew what they were getting to be more willing to lose a longstanding member, that is also a "fill-in" rangemaster, than to accept my GOA card.

    I have changed many opinions from reading a lot of stuff here, and I will stand by what I say.

    I do have a friend that is a general contractor, that only lives a bit further from me than the range is. He has 50 plus acres, and has a huge dirt backstop out there. I have been told I am welcome at any time,.........probably my new shooting place!


    Well Marc, I am glad to hear you are standing on your principles. It is important in today's world that we do.

    Are the positions of your club elected?

    Is there any way to bring this subject to the public's attention? (letter to the editor perhaps?)
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Freemind,......yes, they are elected positions, but it is the usual "clique" per se.

    They tend to band together, even when facing opposition.
    Very much like our politicians![xx(]

    I WAS asked to run for office last year, but realistically I can't do that. To many time constraints for another few years.
    All of these folks are retired.

    Whatever,.....it's not the end of the world.
    I will find another place, or use my friends land, and shoot a bit less.

    Either way, I will not back down. It actually feels really good to not back down anymore.[;)]
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,998
    edited November -1
    It actually feels really good to not back down anymore.


    Marc,

    Doesn't it though. I have often thought of the happiness I will have when come November, I walk into the voting booth and actually cast my vote "for" a candidate.

    Although, there is one thing that makes me happier; knowing there are several other of my countrymen who will do the same.[;)]
  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    Principles Don't mean squat, unless there is a cost!
    Good for you !
    Questions(as I am hearing more of this ).
    #1: is this a competition club shooting NRA sanctioned matches,
    or just a place to burn powder ?
    #2: does the NRA carry the range insurance?
    #3:does the NRA help out with grants for shooting programs for the kids ?
    #4:this is a personal question to ease my own puzzlement with something you said : If there is such a "clique"among the leadership,
    Why did they ask you to run for office ?
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Marc;
    Congratulations.
    This Mafia scheme being run by the NRA and `good old boys' SHOULD be a real clue as to their REAL intent.
    Not much different then the old time knuckle draggers that beat up storekeepers.

    Get yourself out to that private range and breath freedom a bit.

    Gotta have respect for your decision...there is at least a half-dozen men around here that did the same thing. The club was losing so many members they opened it up to other organizations...or even pay a bit of premium and keep membership minus the NRA.

    Or so I was told. I do not attend the meetings..entirely too much `good old boys' for me.
  • pickenuppickenup Member, Moderator Posts: 22,361 ******
    edited November -1
    Marc, thank you.
    First for the subject matter of this thread.
    Second for your restraints on language. [;)] [:D][:D]

    It can be a HARD pill to swallow. I KNOW, I went through it. When I started my research on the NRA, which culminated in the "NRA information" post I'm sure you have read, I was an NRA member as well. Upon completion of that research, I too had to make a decision. I found I could not live with myself, if I lived a lie. My NRA membership was on a three year term, and has since expired, and will not be renewed. I quit one gun club that I was a member of, for a number of reasons. One of which was their unwavering affiliation with the NRA.

    There is another gun club that has a 10 year waiting list to get in (I am into year 7, with three more to go) that has the same requirement as yours. (mandatory NRA membership) Sadly, in three years, unless they change the rules, I will not be a member there either. I could cheat, no one would know, but I have to live with myself. I can still shoot competition at these ranges, but can not use them outside a match.

    I do have some National Forest that is not too far away. There is a recognized shooting range in one place that I have used recently. But no more benches, canopies, sand bags, or target stands etc. unless I bring, and carry them in.

    I will keep banging on the gun range I'm trying to get into, you keep banging on yours. I understand that you don't have three years to work on it like I do, but who knows, eventually we may change this strangle-hold the NRA has on some of the ranges.
  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would like to say "congratulations!" You are absolutely right about it feeling good to stand by your beliefs. Thankfully, my gun range doesn't require an NRA membership.
  • OdawgpOdawgp Member Posts: 5,380
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by trapguy2007
    Principles Don't mean squat, unless there is a cost!
    Good for you !
    Questions(as I am hearing more of this ).
    #1: is this a competition club shooting NRA sanctioned matches,
    or just a place to burn powder ?
    #2: does the NRA carry the range insurance?
    #3:does the NRA help out with grants for shooting programs for the kids ?

    These are probably the reasons that members must be NRA members
    Our range does not have the "must be NRA" but we have all the above provided to us by the FNRA
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by trapguy2007
    Principles Don't mean squat, unless there is a cost!
    Good for you !
    Questions(as I am hearing more of this ).
    #1: is this a competition club shooting NRA sanctioned matches,
    or just a place to burn powder ?
    There are matches there on occasion, but they are not sanctioned,.......mainly a place to burn powder.
    #2: does the NRA carry the range insurance?
    I believe that they do.
    #3:does the NRA help out with grants for shooting programs for the kids ? None at all.
    #4:this is a personal question to ease my own puzzlement with something you said : If there is such a "clique"among the leadership,
    Why did they ask you to run for office ?
    The clique I was referring to is among the board members.
    I was asked to run by a number of dissenting "club" members that were as unhappy as I am about some of the things going on out there. Had I been interested in running, it wouldn't have made any difference. They have a ton of members that hardly use the range, but show up for the election of officers, and the same folks keep being put back in, although they occasionally switch offices.

    Some general info!
    I have yet to figure out what the tie is to the NRA, since their involvement seems to only be in collecting an insurance premium.
    I have no big issue with the primary member having to be a member of a gun rights organization, but I find it absurd that GOA, or a few others are not accepted.
    In a nutshell, somebody is getting something for keeping that as a requirement.

    Another issue that upsets a lot of members, that the "clique" continues to allow is "cowboy action shooting."
    A number of the board members are into that, and like to put on their costumes, and play Black Bart.
    I am not into that, but do not have a problem with it in general.
    The problem lies in the fact that they take over the range on the last Saturday of every month, so that an average turn-out of 6 to 10 folks can play cowboy. Every single one of them that participate in this type of shooting,.........is retired!
    Our gripe has been to do it on a weekday, so that the members that have to work during the week, don't lose our access to the range on Saturday.

    Anyway, it blows my mind that they are willing to lose members over this. They are losing them other ways, as a lot of the members are senior citizens.
    I have brought in about 6 members myself, and those members have brought in others, so to me it makes no sense to lose "younger" members that are capable of expanding the club.

    I composed a letter yesterday that I sent to all of the office holders, so I will see what happens. I have until 1/1/2009, even though my NRA membership expires end of November 2008.
    Several others are "claiming" they will not renew either,.........but you know how that goes![xx(]
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the information !
    Sounds like your club is alot smaller than ours (375 and growing).
    I have to assume that there is only 1 range available?
    Trying to arrange events to please everybody is nearly impossible.
    It is frustrating to give up range time (especially since leisure time is at a premium) only to find that 3 people came to a match .
    Happens way too often .
    As far as the reason the club stays with the NRA,I can only guess .
    A couple of ressons;
    #1; if you renew membership through the club,they get $5.00 rebate.
    #2:It is my understanding that if there is an accident,and the club is sued ,the NRA will defend the officers of the club .

    Also ask if they have a lifetime membership.
    Our club does, and once you have it there is no checking on NRA membership.
    Best wishes on search for a new place to shoot !
    Roger

    Would also be nice to know if GOA has anything to bring to the
    table as far as help for the club.
    If anybody knows please let me know .
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Roger,
    This club has over 300 members as of last year,......probably more by now.
    Most of them hardly ever show up. I have been out there on a weekday morning, and shoot all by myself until about 11AM.

    I did just get a call, believe it or not![:0]
    The treasurer called, and while it didn't have anything to do with the NRA issue, he did say that they are considering changing the Cowboy shooting to a weekday. The meeting is about the middle of September,.......I will be there!

    He "asked" about the NRA issue again, and pleaded with me to just "go along", as they don't want me to leave,.......according to him.
    I know the reason why, it's because I am a fairly "active" member for this range, and spend a good part of my time when shooting, acting as "rangemaster." I also typically spend 4 hours or more there when I go, and a lot of these guys want to shoot a box of ammo, and go home.

    For your info,.......it is only a 50 yard pistol caliber range, with about 30 firing stations under roof. No rifles other than .22, and accepted pistol calibers. No shotguns at all. I have to go to a dedicated trap range if I want to do that. You don't have to be a member there though, and it is fairly cheap.

    I don't believe they have life memberships, and even if they did, I would not pay the money for it, as I question the location of this range. Homes are being built fairly close, and I expect lawsuits to begin before long.

    I am standing on what I said, and told him again today, the same thing. We will see what happens,.........but knowing some of these folks, I don't expect a good outcome on the NRA issue.
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    Appreciate the reply .
    I doubt you will get a satisfactory outcome.
    I understand the problems with these clubs and have come to the conclusion that whether 30 or 300 ,the same relationships happen .
    Same situation as at our club: 10% of the members do 90% of the work.
    That is why you are needed.
    The club sounds a little on the small side.
    We shoot apprx. 20 different disciplines on 6 different ranges and are talking about adding a couple more .
    The requirement I would like to see is that members had to shoot at least 1 registered match per quarter.
    We have same problem of members that come once a year to sight in deer rifle or check new purchases .
    They add nothing !
    Good luck and keep us posted .
    Roger

    Also :is there a range protection act in your state ?
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by trapguy2007
    Appreciate the reply .
    I doubt you will get a satisfactory outcome.
    I understand the problems with these clubs and have come to the conclusion that whether 30 or 300 ,the same relationships happen .
    Same situation as at our club: 10% of the members do 90% of the work.
    That is why you are needed.
    The club sounds a little on the small side.
    We shoot apprx. 20 different disciplines on 6 different ranges and are talking about adding a couple more .
    The requirement I would like to see is that members had to shoot at least 1 registered match per quarter.
    We have same problem of members that come once a year to sight in deer rifle or check new purchases .
    They add nothing !
    Good luck and keep us posted .
    Roger

    Also :is there a range protection act in your state ?
    That unfortunately I could not tell you,.......guess I should research it.

    This is quite a large county, with approximately 370,000 folks within its borders. It is also largely Conservative, although we are being infiltrated by Liberals moving from NY, MI, IL,.....etc.
    This is the only range short of one out in the National Forest here.
    That range is like taking your life in your hands at times.

    We do have an indoor range on the north end of the county, but it is pay as you shoot, and at 10 bucks an hour, it doesn't make a lot of sense for me. I like to spend several hours shooting,......add in gas, and ammo costs,........well, I am sure you get it.

    I wish I had the money, and the knowledge to attempt to start up a proper range here,.......you could make a fortune![;)]
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • Remington1981Remington1981 Member Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thank you for being a true defender of my son's and everyone else's childern right to keep and bear arms. I am right there with you.
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    We need a new org that will promote shooting sports and education instead of NRA, completely non-political.
  • slumlord44slumlord44 Member Posts: 3,693 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hate to remind you, but if the politicians have there way there will be NO shooting sports in this country. I hate politics also, but this is the country we live in.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:Hate to remind you, but if the politicians have there way there will be NO shooting sports in this country. I hate politics also, but this is the country we live in.

    Well..GOOD!!

    I would hope that your 'shooting sport' be banned yesterday.

    My Right to keep and bear arms will STILL be covered by the Second Amendment!!
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    quote:Would also be nice to know if GOA has anything to bring to the table as far as help for the club.


    Isn't what they do on a daily basis enough help? All the rest the NRA does is just fluff and has nothing to do with the NEED they pretend to fill, only has to do with making more money.
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    Sorry to hear this Marc. I don't need any other range than my own. The range in the National Forest, near where I live, only require you to have a current AL hunting licence to use it. A government range with less restrictions than a private range.[?]
  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
    quote:Would also be nice to know if GOA has anything to bring to the table as far as help for the club.


    Isn't what they do on a daily basis enough help? All the rest the NRA does is just fluff and has nothing to do with the NEED they pretend to fill, only has to do with making more money.

    They could probably do more ,just as any organization.
    Would be nice to see them set up tables at local gunshows .
    I never see any information about them at a gun shop .
    Would be nice if they had local members visit clubs and talk to shooters .
    The one sticking point with some clubs is liability insurance.
    They may need to try to establish a group.
    There are probably a good many other things that all could do.
    I don't want them to become NRA"lite",I would just like to see them have higher visibility .

    Roger
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    If you are a member get involved and help make it so! [;)]
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is my latest thought.

    Even if they get their insurance from the NRA, and even if they get 5 bucks for every member that buys their membership through the club, what does that have to do with anything?

    I know of very few folks that became NRA members through the club, so the kickback can't be the reason. I am sure that the incentives exist for the memberships they sell though.

    Why are they willing to lose paying members, over a 5 buck kickback?
    What if I renewed by another means?
    They didn't get anything from my last 3 year membership in the first place.

    Just so it is clear,........they are not demanding me to renew through the club, only that I have an active NRA membership on file.

    I am very curious as to what is the REAL reason behind all of this.
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
    Here is my latest thought.

    Even if they get their insurance from the NRA, and even if they get 5 bucks for every member that buys their membership through the club, what does that have to do with anything?

    I know of very few folks that became NRA members through the club, so the kickback can't be the reason. I am sure that the incentives exist for the memberships they sell though.

    Why are they willing to lose paying members, over a 5 buck kickback?
    What if I renewed by another means?
    They didn't get anything from my last 3 year membership in the first place.

    Just so it is clear,........they are not demanding me to renew through the club, only that I have an active NRA membership on file.

    I am very curious as to what is the REAL reason behind all of this.

    Why not ask ?

    I believe it will be the insurance .

    Roger
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 21,837 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by trapguy2007
    Why not ask ?

    I believe it will be the insurance.

    Roger

    If that is the case, which is possible, it would be very interesting if it was a decree by the NRA or a local club decision. My range offers half-price membership (appx.) for NRA members, but does not require NRA membership. They do not recognize GOA membership.

    If it is a local club decision, so be it, the club has the right to do what they want. If it is a decree by the NRA, it would still be their right, but it certainly puts the lie to the concept that the NRA is truly interested in supporting gun owners as compared to simply lining their own pockets.

    Marc, is there any chance you can find this out specifically? It would be good information for the the NRA lovers on this site.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by trapguy2007
    quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
    Here is my latest thought.

    Even if they get their insurance from the NRA, and even if they get 5 bucks for every member that buys their membership through the club, what does that have to do with anything?

    I know of very few folks that became NRA members through the club, so the kickback can't be the reason. I am sure that the incentives exist for the memberships they sell though.

    Why are they willing to lose paying members, over a 5 buck kickback?
    What if I renewed by another means?
    They didn't get anything from my last 3 year membership in the first place.

    Just so it is clear,........they are not demanding me to renew through the club, only that I have an active NRA membership on file.

    I am very curious as to what is the REAL reason behind all of this.

    Why not ask ?I believe it will be the insurance .

    Roger

    Roger,......I did ask, in the letters that I sent out to 7 board members. I now must give them time to respond by regular mail.
    The only one of the "wimps" that I can speak to by phone is the Treasurer.

    As above,.....no answers, only asking me to go along.
    Maybe Highball is correct, and the NRA is operating as a "Mafia" type organization. I didn't think of it that way, until I re-read his post.

    Are you saying that as a condition of having liability insurance for the range through the NRA,........they can dictate a pre-condition of coverage, that all primary members of the club must be NRA members,......."one way, or the other?"

    If this is the case, it only makes me more ticked off at ALL of them![xx(]
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    Insurance companies are off the reservation at times .
    I have never understood their fear of gun club business .
    I would be happier with my daughter at a range over the local Mall
    anyday.
    She would be safer.
    I doubt the NRA requires clubs to have their insurance.
    It may just be the only game in town.
    Remember the amount of companies that will not write homeowners ins.
    in Miss. since Katrina.
    If I were in the business I would like to insure every club in the country .

    Roger
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    quote:Originally posted by trapguy2007
    Why not ask ?

    I believe it will be the insurance.

    Roger

    If that is the case, which is possible, it would be very interesting if it was a decree by the NRA or a local club decision. My range offers half-price membership (appx.) for NRA members, but does not require NRA membership. They do not recognize GOA membership.

    If it is a local club decision, so be it, the club has the right to do what they want. If it is a decree by the NRA, it would still be their right, but it certainly puts the lie to the concept that the NRA is truly interested in supporting gun owners as compared to simply lining their own pockets.

    Marc, is there any chance you can find this out specifically? It would be good information for the the NRA lovers on this site.


    Don,........I will do my very best to get to the bottom of this, as I want very much to know myself.

    I want to know if it is the club, or an extortion scheme from the NRA, as a provision for liability coverage.

    Just to be clear,......they charge a $100.00 "initiation" fee, and then it was another $100.00 per year, with a spouse, and minors, at $20.00 each.

    Shooting lead is free after that,.......pin matches and the such have a small charge such as 5 bucks per match.
    I have never complained about the fees per se.

    I WILL do my best to get to the bottom of this, and will report back as I find out new info,.......assuming I do.
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
    quote:Originally posted by trapguy2007
    quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
    Here is my latest thought.

    Even if they get their insurance from the NRA, and even if they get 5 bucks for every member that buys their membership through the club, what does that have to do with anything?

    I know of very few folks that became NRA members through the club, so the kickback can't be the reason. I am sure that the incentives exist for the memberships they sell though.

    Why are they willing to lose paying members, over a 5 buck kickback?
    What if I renewed by another means?
    They didn't get anything from my last 3 year membership in the first place.

    Just so it is clear,........they are not demanding me to renew through the club, only that I have an active NRA membership on file.

    I am very curious as to what is the REAL reason behind all of this.

    Why not ask ?I believe it will be the insurance .

    Roger

    Roger,......I did ask, in the letters that I sent out to 7 board members. I now must give them time to respond by regular mail.
    The only one of the "wimps" that I can speak to by phone is the Treasurer.

    As above,.....no answers, only asking me to go along.
    Maybe Highball is correct, and the NRA is operating as a "Mafia" type organization. I didn't think of it that way, until I re-read his post.

    Are you saying that as a condition of having liability insurance for the range through the NRA,........they can dictate a pre-condition of coverage, that all primary members of the club must be NRA members,......."one way, or the other?"

    If this is the case, it only makes me more ticked off at ALL of them![xx(]


    Marc; I believe(?) at one time everybody had to be a member to have their ins.
    Please do not quote me as I am not 100% sure .
    Like you ,I don't believe in go along to get along .
    I will check on this with our club lawyer tomorrow at our trap league
    ,if it does not rain .
    I am now wondering myself .
  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    quote:Originally posted by trapguy2007
    Why not ask ?

    I believe it will be the insurance.

    Roger

    If that is the case, which is possible, it would be very interesting if it was a decree by the NRA or a local club decision. My range offers half-price membership (appx.) for NRA members, but does not require NRA membership. They do not recognize GOA membership.

    If it is a local club decision, so be it, the club has the right to do what they want. If it is a decree by the NRA, it would still be their right, but it certainly puts the lie to the concept that the NRA is truly interested in supporting gun owners as compared to simply lining their own pockets.

    Marc, is there any chance you can find this out specifically? It would be good information for the the NRA lovers on this site.


    I have all of my ins. through Alfa ins. in Alabama.
    I have to be a member of the state association(they do lobby state gov. )in order to buy their ins .
    I think it would be reasonable to assume the NRA might mandate the same .
    Don't know for sure ,but plan to ask .

    Roger
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    At the very LEAST the NRA ought to take the stand that it would be perfectly okay with them if members joined ANY pro-gun organization instead of them.

    Most of these clubs are run by people that have been members of the NRA for life...and they will hear no critisism of their lifeline.
  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    At the very LEAST the NRA ought to take the stand that it would be perfectly okay with them if members joined ANY pro-gun organization instead of them.

    Most of these clubs are run by people that have been members of the NRA for life...and they will hear no critisism of their lifeline.

    I see no problem with that .

    Roger
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Update folks!

    First off there was a board meeting last night,........board only of course.
    The Treasurer just called me again, and I am fresh off of a 30 minute conversation with him.
    Onto the points:

    Yes,.......the NRA requirements are due to the fact that the NRA is the insurance carrier.
    I was also correct in what I said in reference to any grants from the NRA, for shooting programs for the club,.........there are none at this point, or going back in time.

    In a nutshell, Highball was largely correct, as they are running a "protection racket" per se, to provide them with liability insurance, and that is where the requirement comes from.

    On a positive note,.....the Treasurer that I referred to as a wimp, is really not that bad of a guy. He asked me once more to just take out an NRA membership from them that is only 10 bucks a year,.......you don't get the magazines though,......oh no![:0]
    I got right to the point, and told him if he gave me a free NRA membership that I would not carry the card. I went into details this time, and told him of my belief that they are conspiring with politicians to compromise our gun rights away. I also told him they are running a "racket" in requiring membership quotas in order to provide insurance.

    I made the point that their insurance side is a separate entity, and should operate as such. Take the premiums with no shakedown conditions, or get out of the game. I also made the point that other gun rights memberships should be accepted once more.

    Guess what,........he agreed with me, and told me he largely feels the same way about the NRA in terms of selling our rights down the river. He brought up GOA at the meeting, and the board is going to consider it,...........sure they will check the insurance contract first.

    Now for Don, and any that want direct info,........I was told that the NRA insurance conditions are 50% of the membership must be NRA members, and that the "primary member" issue, is a "suggestion" from the NRA to get way above 50%. It appears the 50% is "mandatory" at this point for their policy. He told me it runs about $5,000.00 a year.

    Also for Roger,.....I was correct in thinking the membership is dropping. Current numbers are about 275 members,.........not including family of course, but it HAS shrunk.

    I have tried to find out, and provide all of the real info that I can for any that were interested.
    Now onto my final issue!

    The Treasurer,......whose name is Bob H., told me to simply renew next year minus my NRA membership. He says he handles all of the money, and the needed forms, and no one else will know that I am not an NRA member any longer. He also hopes to get things changed as far as accepting other organizations soon,..........as long as their membership number stays above 50% NRA. He said it is way over that number as of now.

    Am I a hypocrite if I remain a club member this "undercover" way, and try to stay and have influence going forward?
    Or,........should I just walk away at the end of 2008?

    Sorry for the novel, but I think that a few here wanted to hear about what I have learned.
    BTW,.........one of the other "dissenters", is the only person beyond me to carry it this far. I also learned that in the conversation.
    It was the one person in my gut that I felt would follow through.[;)]

    Tell me what you think,.......either way.
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Infiltrating the enemy is never a bad thing, if you intend working to dismantle them.

    Working from that platform, being inside is better then outside.

    That being said...how many people are aware that you have kicked up a fuss ? Remaining in the club with the false mantle of the `NRA' crown on your head will appear to them that you have folded..

    The way around that is to set in on meeting and continue kicking up the fuss...

    My prime example is CCW. Any intelligent being OUGHT to understand that it is a sell-out of our precious Rights.

    One might GET IT...ANYWAY...with the understanding that some day it might be the edge allowing you to get to your rifle...
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    That HB,this is funny from you. When an NRA member has anything to do with the anti-gun bunch this is unforgiveable. But it's ok for those on your side to associate with the 'enemy'! [}:)]
    Thus the 'unconventional', 'sneek and peek', type of action I refered to earlier.[;)]
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    Infiltrating the enemy is never a bad thing, if you intend working to dismantle them.

    Working from that platform, being inside is better then outside.

    That being said...how many people are aware that you have kicked up a fuss ? Remaining in the club with the false mantle of the `NRA' crown on your head will appear to them that you have folded..

    The way around that is to set in on meeting and continue kicking up the fuss...

    My prime example is CCW. Any intelligent being OUGHT to understand that it is a sell-out of our precious Rights.

    One might GET IT...ANYWAY...with the understanding that some day it might be the edge allowing you to get to your rifle...


    Highball,.......all 7 of the board members are aware of my "fuss", as I sent them all letters in the mail.
    I can think of 6 members that know for sure what has been going on.

    Your points are exactly why I asked the question.
    I do NOT want to appear that I have "folded."

    I will not tell anyone that I renewed, and I may get further calls, or possibly letters in the coming weeks from the mail I sent out,........maybe not. It will be clear that I am no longer NRA affiliated to anyone that speaks to me.

    All I can add to what I already wrote is,.......I think they are more interested in keeping me as a member, than pushing this to the potential outcome.
    I was surprised to hear that the Treasurer actually agreed with me in principle. He said he just was not as "hard line" as me, and goes along. He now understands that I am a bit different.

    I have until the end of 2008, and I believe I will see what happens in the interim before making my final decision.
    At least I have found out a lot that I didn't know before, about the inner workings of this.
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:That HB,this is funny from you. When an NRA member has anything to do with the anti-gun bunch this is unforgiveable. But it's ok for those on your side to associate with the 'enemy'!
    Thus the 'unconventional', 'sneek and peek', type of action I refered to earlier.
    Now why should that surprise you, Jim ?

    Let me see if I can make this even plainer...since it appears the level of comprehension is limited.

    Associating with the enemy and being CONVERTED by that enemy is what I decry..for you have become what you fought.

    Associating with the enemy for the purpose of sticking (figuratively speaking here) a knife in where they live is a FAR different matter.

    See...that is what I see the NRA doing. They associate with us..so they can find the soft spots for the knife thrust. They use people like you, Jim...and TrFox for this purpose.
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 21,837 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
    Update folks!
    ...
    Now for Don, and any that want direct info,........I was told that the NRA insurance conditions are 50% of the membership must be NRA members, and that the "primary member" issue, is a "suggestion" from the NRA to get way above 50%. It appears the 50% is "mandatory" at this point for their policy. He told me it runs about $5,000.00 a year.
    ...

    Also for Roger,.....I was correct in thinking the membership is dropping. Current numbers are about 275 members,.........not including family of course, but it HAS shrunk.

    I have tried to find out, and provide all of the real info that I can for any that were interested.
    Now onto my final issue!

    The Treasurer,......whose name is Bob H., told me to simply renew next year minus my NRA membership. He says he handles all of the money, and the needed forms, and no one else will know that I am not an NRA member any longer. He also hopes to get things changed as far as accepting other organizations soon,..........as long as their membership number stays above 50% NRA. He said it is way over that number as of now.

    Am I a hypocrite if I remain a club member this "undercover" way, and try to stay and have influence going forward?
    Or,........should I just walk away at the end of 2008?


    Thanks, Mark.

    I frankly can understand the NRA position, and 50%, though somewhat arbitrary, seems reasonable. One can quibble, but they are providing a service. As noted previously, my range offers membership to non-NRA members at a rate that is higher than what membership would cost. I assume they easily meet the 50% requirement if that indeed is in place.

    Another point is that one would hope the majority in the NRA leadership believes as do many on this forum, that their method of fighting for the RKBA is correct, proper, and is working. Many do not understand the inherent irony in issuing licenses for Concealed Carry to those that demonstrate they do not need to be monitored, and many can actually swallow the 'Right to Carry Holder' mantra, a concept I cannot hope to get my mind around.

    Are you a hypocrite? No more than am I in supporting a range that is associated with the NRA. I do not dismiss or degrade the NRA when at the range, though have mentioned the sell-out that is the Heller decision on more than one occasion, and (I think) have changed more some minds. I do not view it as sleeping with the enemy, simply associating with them and giving them something to think about.

    If the folks at the range are good people, they will at a minimum understand where you are coming from. In the end you will find more than a few that will truly understand the concept and will agree with and support you.

    Good luck,

    Don
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
Sign In or Register to comment.