.

No Right is Absolute;

HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
The debate has raged concerning whether any Right enumerated in the BOR is `Absolute'.

Well;
Of course those stoutly protesting that they are not absolute ARE CORRECT !! EVERY Right MUST have some limitations, in order for any sort of society to work.

Look at the Second Amendment, for instance; Unfettered, uncontrolled access to weapons would lead to a breakdown of Society in short order.

No..there MUST be controls of some sort.

Given the wording of the second Amendment, it is readily apparent that the Founders intended allowing decent citizens an unprecedented level of responsibility for maintaining the Republic.and they intended allowing that by force of Arms, when it became necessary.
Trust me on this...those wise men KNEW it would once again come to force of arms ..thus the REASON for the Second.

The `controls' The Anti-gunners screech about WERE intended by the Founders;

Those controls to take the form of swift, speedy trials and hangings for the vicious animals roaming the streets, victimizing innocent people.
Executing animals is the limits of governmental power over weapons.

One is left to wonder WHY gun-owners INSIST upon punishing everybody in this country for the misdeeds of the few. Instead of DEMANDING that criminals be subjected to proper justice ..they demand that decent citizens bear the burden of universal gun control.

I feel that strongly distrusting those that advocate gun control is a worthy endeavor...and is the sign of a healthy American attitude.

I find no common ground with gun controllers..and it is painfully obvious that while the common language is English.. words mean RADICALLY different things depending upon the point of view.

Four Simple words .."Shall Not Be Infringed" somehow morphs into "government has the authority and the duty to restrict firearms to whomever it pleases..."

No common ground at all, folks...and better the line clearly and cleanly drawn between perversion and common sense.
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Comments

  • 45long45long Member Posts: 642 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jeeze Highball you had me worried for a second. *LOL* I thought you had went over to the dark side of "enlightened responsible gun ownership. You know the one were reasonable restrictions are inconvienent but needed for the good of all. After all if ONE LIFE IS SAVED !!! Praise be to Sarah Brady !!!!!

    Now. If you will excuse me I have to go puke. Gag Gag Gag Hack Hack.

    Ok. Now lets find a tall tree and short rope and get on with the Governmental controls the founders really intended.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    .45;
    In my more darkly introspective moments, I have indeed thought about going over to that dark, evil place.

    See..One would immediately gain the acceptance of the majority of the masses..and perhaps one could be inducted into the hall of Shame along with all the rest of the sold-out garbage out there.

    This standing with only 3 people out of 100 is wearying ..for the enemy is all around.

    On the other side of the coin ..it is a target rich environment.

    Add in the absolute fact that those 3 are the salt of the earth...the BEST OF THE BEST...and where does the competition stand ?

    Corrupt, lying, sleazy cowards, Quislings that they are...unfit for decent men to associate with.

    I believe I like the smell better here with the 3 %....and I know that these men are refreshed by the stream that runs through time ..the stream of the Wariour ..that self-same stream that hardened, tempered, and refreshed the Founders, and washed from them the blood of the British ..allowing them to begin this grand experiment of freedom.
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,998
    edited November -1
    honored to be here[;)]
  • rkba4everrkba4ever Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thank god there are more than 3 of us [:D] I guess someone has to have the "intestinal fortitude" to tell it like it is instead of sugar coatings and pretty words. IF people can't handle the truth of what the INTENT of our founders was, or have decided on the irrelevance of said intent, then there is no helping them. Sometimes you have to take a bold stand to shock people out of their complacency.

    Without some "Big Event" most people go through their days on cruise control. Too bad sheeple these days prefer to hand off responsibilty to the government. Well, I'm a sheep dog, not a sheep, and if the wolf comes around I prefer to have the ability to bite back!!
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Gee whiz Highball, yet another post you make, with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to disagree with.

    I find it amazing how the "other side" can't see the truth, as it is common sense.

    But as Voltair once said "Common sense is not so common".
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:I feel that strongly distrusting those that advocate gun control is a worthy endeavor...and is the sign of a healthy American attitude.

    I find no common ground with gun controllers..and it is painfully obvious that while the common language is English.. words mean RADICALLY different things depending upon the point of view.

    Four Simple words .."Shall Not Be Infringed" somehow morphs into "government has the authority and the duty to restrict firearms to whomever it pleases..."

    No common ground at all, folks...and better the line clearly and cleanly drawn between perversion and common sense.

    Words to live by indeed.[;)] Truth spoken.

    I prefer to draw a clear line also, between those actually supporting the founding principals and those who mouth platitudes that they do so.

    It keeps the argument clean and it draws a distinction between the beliefs of those who are of the "New American" mindset and those of us who are traditional American's, who support and defend the Republic.

    There is a clear difference and it is important to have that difference recognized.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    I have been anxiously awaiting the weight-in of the above posters...and a few more whose opinion I find extremely valuble.

    I wasn't sure I was getting the proper message across...because the purpose was a bit different then normal...[:D]
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,998
    edited November -1
    I wasn't sure I was getting the proper message across...because the purpose was a bit different then normal...[:D]

    HB,

    Let me assure you that you did get the proper message across, and it was L&C.

    Spot-on[;)]
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    Well lets see, 50,000 members, 3%. If I am right that 1500.
    Where are the other 1490+. Not much a pep rally guys![}:)]
    Can't you get more of the 3% motivated than this???[;)]
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Sorry to disappoint you J.M.


    Most are entirely to smart to post and give your side another name on the list.

    They are lying up there on the hill, just watching and waiting...

    Some of us feel the information is too important to just allow your types clear fields of fire to spread you devient message.
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    You wish!!![}:)]
    So HB, are you saying you are one of the 3% who not very smart? If so I would have to agree with you on that![}:)]
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
    You wish!!![}:)]
    So HB, are you saying you are one of the 3% who not very smart? If so I would have to agree with you on that![}:)]


    I would venture to say his intellegence is more than you could ever HOPE to attain.

    All the knowledge you have could barely fill a thimble.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:So HB, are you saying you are one of the 3% who not very smart? If so I would have to agree with you on that!

    Actually, Freemind; J.R. is right about this.

    I should have kept my mouth shut many years ago...I have already payed certain price for my lack of silence.

    At some point many years ago, I realized that most folks were totally unaware that their freedoms and liberties were being dissolved right in front of their noses...and I decided that come hell or high water, those within hearing distance were going to hear the rest of the story.
    My principles have cost me a wife, my one true ambition...to own/run a gunshop/range, an ear, and the respect of most of the population out there.

    The last, of course being folks like J.R...and that loss is miniscule compared to the loss of manhood one would feel merely submitting to tyranny without a whimper.

    That small loss is more then made up for by the certain knowledge that there are, scattered across this great land, men of like mind to me...men that you can turn your backs to and feel perfectly secure.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    quote:So HB, are you saying you are one of the 3% who not very smart? If so I would have to agree with you on that!

    Actually, Freemind; J.R. is right about this.

    I should have kept my mouth shut many years ago...I have already payed certain price for my lack of silence.

    At some point many years ago, I realized that most folks were totally unaware that their freedoms and liberties were being dissolved right in front of their noses...and I decided that come hell or high water, those within hearing distance were going to hear the rest of the story.
    My principles have cost me a wife, my one true ambition...to own/run a gunshop/range, an ear, and the respect of most of the population out there.

    The last, of course being folks like J.R...and that loss is miniscule compared to the loss of manhood one would feel merely submitting to tyranny without a whimper.

    That small loss is more then made up for by the certain knowledge that there are, scattered across this great land, men of like mind to me...men that you can turn your backs to and feel perfectly secure.



    Intellegence is NOT measure by the things a person has. It is measure by what a person knows, and does with that intellegence.

    I don't know what your situation was with your EX wife, nor is it my business (as personal details are that, personal). But I will say, if a woman hates a man's priciples enough, to NOT wish to be married any longer, she was a shyster to begin with. I WAS married to a shyster myself once, and won't be married to another one. If wife #2 happened to NOT work, that would be the END of marrage for me, forever.

    A man MUST get up every morning and face HIMSELF in the mirror. I won't comprime priciples, morals, and "go along" to fit in. If the world hates me, so be it. I have to live with myself, and could NOT face my own reflection, if I comprimse what I know and belive.


    The world is a strange place Bert, and it is my belief, some of us face more trials and tribulations than others for whatever reason the MAN upstairs deems necesarry.
  • nyforesternyforester Member Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Stick to your guns fellas......If people like us fade away, there will be no good place on earth to live. We need to keep the faith and spread the word.
    I just returned from my baby sisters 2nd wedding. The first was her high school sweetheart than went bad. She met a nice guy and after 2 years and got married Friday night in a small private ceremony. He is a military man having spent 2 tours in the sand box.
    I am happy to say that about 2/3 of the 200 people at this weekend party are gun lov'in Americans ! and most would fight for life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness.

    It is the gun haters that will be knocking & pounding on our doors wanting us to defend them from the bottom feeders that are trying to take away freedom ! It will be me and my brothers on the front line defending the RIGHT !

    "Forward he cried from the rear
    and the front rank died.
    And the general sat and the lines on the map
    moved from side to side."
    Abort Cuomo
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    HB, I don't know how you stay motivated. I feel more tired about the whole mess everyday. Find myself wanting to just fade into the background and wait for what seems to be the inevitable result of the stupidity that has overrun a once near-perfect nation. But you seem to be accelerating.[:D]
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    JP;

    Bluntly, it is because of you guys...those of you standing and fighting mearly insurmountable odds in this soft war.

    For most of my life, I was alone in my beliefs...rarely getting any encouragement from others in the form of agreement.

    I knew I was right then...and witnessing the resurgence of those men of old, the Founders, on GB and here locally can do nothing BUT energize me.

    Believe me..I am convinced that the heart of a Founder beats in the chests of the men you see posting here..yourself and others...those able to understand what that Document means.

    The dividing line is the Second Amendment..for those unable to grasp the MEANING of those few words are unable to grasp the meaning of Freedom in ANY context. For any practical purpose, they are the 'enemy'..for they support the enemy with dollars, votes, and public pressure on the Constitution.
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    Well I didn't keep my mouth shut either. But unlike some who only lead pep rallies for the internet wantabes I went on TV, radio, newspapers, and state senate hearings, and defended our rights to keep and bear armes, and guess what? I USED MY REAL NAME. [;)]
    I gave classes to many people who want to CCW, and I stressed the need to take the 2nd Amendment as it is written. And I did this AT MY HOUSE, no hiding on the internet at an unk location afraid to say who I am or where I am.[:D]
    You are the ones who are the cowards of this world. [V]
    Hide behind the computer and keep making fun of those who get out in the real world and FIGHT for your rights.
    But I guess the world is full of those afraid to come out and fight, just set behind a keyboard and bad mouth those who do the fighting for them. Human nature, hi-tech style![:(]
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,998
    edited November -1
    originally posted by Jim Rau:

    I gave classes to many people who want to CCW


    You have to go through a class for CCW?
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    WS,
    Do you think people are 'born' with knowlage or do you gather it as you proceed through life?[:0]
    To answer your guestion. (Which you already know if you are not living under a rock, in other words you are just being a smart * to try and impress your friends) In some juristictions, yes. Like it or not this is part of the reality some can not face.[;)]
    Now to show how wrong your reality is. Alaska had a shall not carry a CCW. They took a step FORWARD and passed a shall issue CCW law. There where many who opposed this to include the Cheif of Police of Los Anchorage. Well as a result of this step FORWARD, IT WAS PROVEN THE CCW DID NOT CAUSE THE CARNAGE HE PREDICED, HE CHANGED HIS MIND!!!!!! Well becasue this step FORWARD showed people could exercise there right without violating other right, Alaska changed the law to allow ccw by everyone, no permit or any thing!! They still issue CCW permits so those who travel outside can still carry in states who reconize the Alaska permit. This, contray to your way of thinking, is a step froward![8D] Now is this or is this not what you and I would like to see happen all over the country???[?]
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,998
    edited November -1
    Jim,

    As I've stated before, I have my CCW, but I cannot carry it with me because it is on display at the National Archives in Washington D.C.


    You stated:

    "Alaska changed the law to allow ccw by everyone, no permit or any thing!!"

    The law already allows CCW by everyone. It's called Amendment II; no permit or anything!! Did Alaska "change the law" or "recognize the right"?
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:recognize the right"?

    A Right, by the way, that Kim Rau does not recognize. That is waht this endless argument has been all about.

    Alaska, per his example, passed law after law..until finally they passed a law to OBEY THE CONSTITUTION ??

    How perfectly special that is.

    Yet those of us advocating that position are, in the eyes of the Jim Raus' of the world, extreme, no reality, unsmart bullies.

    To use Canary * #4 apt closure, often; Go Figure.
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    WS,
    Let me rephrase it so you will understant it.
    Alaska reconized the right to CCW, as stated in the 2nd Amendment.
    Back to the question, is this not what you would like to see in the rest of the country?????[?]
    You are to hung up on the wording, there are many ways to say the same thing.
    Hi, HB, still trying to be the center of attention I see![;)]
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:Hi, HB, still trying to be the center of attention I see!
    Well, the NRA and people like you have been the center of attention for 80 years...it is time for people like me to get some.

    I realize that is really hard for you..being part of the mainstream gun control movement..to turn loose of some of that attention...but get used to it.

    Some folks are wising up..tough luck for you.
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    Well I certinely hope some are wiseing up HB. I have been doing my part by wising up MANY people, so I know I have been doing a good job.
    Sorry you can't say the same.[8D]
    By the way, I wasn't talking to you HB.
    I forgot , attention you need can only be had if you keep at it.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:. I have been doing my part by wising up MANY people

    The people you are 'wising up' are merely extensions of the government...they have been trained to believe that governmental controls are wise and just and Constitutional.
    You are too slow to realize that you are doing the governments job FOR them...and you don't give a damn.

    When the REAL fight is over, and the Constitution has won, we are going to find some way to separate people like you out and restrict weapons to you..for you are not to be trusted with them.
    Your blind acquiesce to gun control is proof positive of that...that and your continued stubborn insistence of the necessity of them.

    You would rather support government then the citizens...and that is deadly dangerous to a Republic.Only citizens with a healthy distrust of government should be armed...

    Have a nice life, as you continue your dedicated work to destroy mine...and every OTHER freedom loving man in America.
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,998
    edited November -1
    originally posted by Jim Rau:

    Well I certinely hope some are wiseing up HB. I have been my part of wising up MANY people, so I know I have been doing a good job.
    Sorry you can't say the same.

    Fine Jim, I'll say it for him.

    When I first started on here, I was one of those "NRA/common sense/have to accept some regs" people. After reading some of the post from some good people on here, like pickenup, lt496, WW, ECC, and yes, HB, my eyes were opened. They were opened from reading the cold, hard truth; not some distortion of it.

    Do I think Hb has done a good job. Nope; he's done a superb job.
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    Ws,
    Back up a few posts, and please answer the question![:)]
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wsfiredude
    originally posted by Jim Rau:

    Well I certinely hope some are wiseing up HB. I have been my part of wising up MANY people, so I know I have been doing a good job.
    Sorry you can't say the same.

    Fine Jim, I'll say it for him.

    When I first started on here, I was one of those "NRA/common sense/have to accept some regs" people. After reading some of the post from some good people on here, like pickenup, lt496, WW, ECC, and yes, HB, my eyes were opened. They were opened from reading the cold, hard truth; not some distortion of it.

    Do I think Hb has done a good job. Nope; he's done a superb job.


    That simply can NOT be true firedude.[}:)]

    The message of 'no compromise' and 'strict adherence' to the Constitution and its Bill of Rights only SCARES people away, or so i've been told. [8)]

    You must be mistaken about what happened with yourself and your beliefs.[:o)]

    The ONLY 'correct' and 'REALISTIC" method of bringing people to the Constitution, is by first indoctrinating them on the righteousness of 'some' government gun-control and the acceptance of government granted 'gun-privileges'...ONLY this method will have any hope of restoring the Republic and bringing people to the 'true' meaning of Amendment II, right? [:o)][:D][:D]
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,998
    edited November -1
    You must be mistaken about what happened with yourself and your beliefs.[:o)]


    Captain,

    I must be.(NOT) I must have missed something in that whole "being exposed to the truth and running like a cockroach" process.[:D]
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    Hb has gotten plenty of attention. Now back the question, please.[?]
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    quote:I gave classes to many people who want to CCW, and I stressed the need to take the 2nd Amendment as it is written.

    Promoting CCW in one breath and preaching "the need to take the 2nd as written"????? How can you not see the problem within that type of illogic??? It's an oxymoron.
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    Only to those who are blinded by idealism!
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
    Only to those who are blinded by idealism!TRUTH


    Fixed it for you.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Ahhh, Jim..you are such a child.

    'HB' should NEVER be the topic of discussion;
    Wouldn't be, if you would stop bringing me up personally...We are talking about the Constitution here.
    Kindly confine yourself to that topic, including your pet gun control projects, and leave my name out of it...hm ? But I can guarentdamntee you...I can get in the mud and wrassle, if you insist on it.

    Try and picture this as a book.
    we are duscussing Original Intent versus the perverted Fascist/Socialist version of today..and the people that stand on both sides of the issues.
    I consider it perfectly legitimate to point out that people embracing gun control CANNOT be supporting the Constitution..and it makes absolutely no difference if that is the government, the NRA....OR you.

    I fully intend throwing lances at anti-gunners till the Beast kills me...so you will not wear me out.
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    Hb,
    You are certinly entertaining, if nothing else![:D]
  • rkba4everrkba4ever Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wsfiredude
    originally posted by Jim Rau:

    Well I certinely hope some are wiseing up HB. I have been my part of wising up MANY people, so I know I have been doing a good job.
    Sorry you can't say the same.

    Fine Jim, I'll say it for him.

    When I first started on here, I was one of those "NRA/common sense/have to accept some regs" people. After reading some of the post from some good people on here, like pickenup, lt496, WW, ECC, and yes, HB, my eyes were opened. They were opened from reading the cold, hard truth; not some distortion of it.

    Do I think Hb has done a good job. Nope; he's done a superb job.


    I gotta say that description fits me as well. Never thought twice about the jumping through hoops until I was older, when I began to really understand what a travesy had been visited on us! OMG I have to get permission to excersize my 2a rights??? I must say that some of the fine folks here have done even more to light the fire in me to speak my mind. I can't tell you how many debates I've gotten into with people over gun-related issues. Most of them are sheeple (even though some are still considered friends, they are a tad spoon-fed) and just plain ol' can' or won't see the light.

    I just do not believe in "dumbing down" stuff or sugar coating it so as to make palatable for the huddles masses. Time for people to be responsible for themselves, time to accept the unvarnished facts, time to think for themselves, educate themselves and stop expecting it to be done for them. This country is going to hell, do we really need Nanny to hold everybodies hand? My god people of America, get your heads out you collective rear-ends before it all gets flushed away!!
  • rkba4everrkba4ever Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
    Only to those who are blinded by idealism!


    But if we don't stick to our beliefs, and fold like a cheap suit, we're no different than those seeking to eviscerate the constitution. Might as well have had a hand in it, if we don't stand up for what we believe in. Were not the founders of this once proud nation idealistic? Did they not have ideals that they thought worthy of fighting and dying for? If that makes me a bad person, than so be it. I refuse to believe that being steadfast in support of the BOR is anything but honorable.
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    4,
    I never said you were a bad person. I don't know you well enough to make that kind judgment call about you. I was pointing out the differance, as I see it, between your statement and how I see it![;)]
  • 300rumgun300rumgun Member Posts: 437 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am sure this has been touched on before but here goes anyway. Whenever I have a conversation with someone it always come to them arguing that the 1st amendment has some restrictions (Fire in a movie theater). Here is my argument to that. If you were to yell that in a theater then you would not be charged with saying fire, you would be charged with disturbing the peace or inciting a riot. So my question to those folks is why is it that gun owners can not be trusted to not yell fire with their Class III? What keeps us all in line is morals, upbringing and not wanting to spend the rest of our days in solitary with Bubba. I just wanted to spell out my retort to the common argument. I am just a young dumb guy but I will get off my soap box now.[:D]
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