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I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
How come those folks weren't slaughtering each other in the streets, before all of these inane laws?
It's all crap. It is a way to know who is armed, and another "cash cow" plain and simple.[xx(]
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
I did that for my first hunting rifle.
Only difference was it was a surplus store.
Even bought ammo....AT THE SAME TIME,
carried it out MYSELF. [:0][:0][:0]
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
I did that for my first hunting rifle.
Only difference was it was a surplus store.
Even bought ammo....AT THE SAME TIME,
carried it our MYSELF. [:0][:0][:0]
In the late 1970's and early 1980's my brother and I would bring our shotguns to school and leave them laying on the back seat of the car while we were in class. Then after school we would go hunting right behind the school grounds ! I remember one student even brought a long gun into shop class to have something fixed by the shop teacher.
Times have changed.....for the worst !
quote:Originally posted by nyforester
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
I did that for my first hunting rifle.
Only difference was it was a surplus store.
Even bought ammo....AT THE SAME TIME,
carried it our MYSELF. [:0][:0][:0]
In the late 1970's and early 1980's my brother and I would bring our shotguns to school and leave them laying on the back seat of the car while we were in class. Then after school we would go hunting right behind the school grounds ! I remember one student even brought a long gun into shop class to have something fixed by the shop teacher.
Times have changed.....for the worst !
Now a days you'd get 20 years for that AND lose the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS FOR EVER.[xx(]
quote:Originally posted by nyforester
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
I did that for my first hunting rifle.
Only difference was it was a surplus store.
Even bought ammo....AT THE SAME TIME,
carried it our MYSELF. [:0][:0][:0]
In the late 1970's and early 1980's my brother and I would bring our shotguns to school and leave them laying on the back seat of the car while we were in class. Then after school we would go hunting right behind the school grounds ! I remember one student even brought a long gun into shop class to have something fixed by the shop teacher.
Times have changed.....for the worst !
I did the same NYForester,......we used to go dove hunting after school.
I graduated in 1980.
Man,......what changes have taken place.
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
quote:If we do lose the right to Keep and Bear Arms, which I will defend to the death, it will be because of people like you!!!No, sir. It will be because of people who have become complacent, have traded freedom for security. It will be because of people who have, with good intentions, allowed their freedoms to be chipped away bit by bit and piece by piece, all under the guise of doing what government tells them is the right thing to do. It will be because of people who took the easy way out, refused to stand firm for what they know is the right thing to do.
USA
1359 Posts
Posted - 09/24/2008 : 11:46:32 AM
I truly feel sorry for you guys!!
Thanks, Mr.Rau; That indicates to me that down where you live, deep inside, you understand that we are right and you wrong..thus you can understnd our Angst over gun laws.
quote:If we do lose the right to Keep and Bear Arms, which I will defend to the death, it will be because of people like you!!!
Jim,Jim,Jim...How many times does it have to explained in teeny-tiny words..you no longer HAVE a "Right to Keep and Bear Arms"..you have PRIVILEGES to do so...revocable at any time they so choose. "Defend to the Death" ??????? I assume you are writting these posts from beyond the grave..???
"People Like US" is the SOLE reason you still have a gun. Oh..yea. Pardon me..the King will makes damn sure his men remain Armed...
quote:Willing to 'rant', and personaly attack others, but not act!!! AH, SUCH a trite bit of nonsense. You are unable to understand that educating others IS "Action"..THE ABSOLUTE only THING LEFT TO US. Naturally, that must needs leave out your dog and pony show you brag about..where you teach impressionable minds your regurgitated New American constitution...
quote:I wish you a good day, but then in your IDEAL world everyday is a good day!!!
I haven't hade a good day since 1968..when others like you collabororated to strike the single greatest blow for tyranny since the British marched on that fateful day long ago..and Mores the pity..we did not meet them at the bridge.
That move 40 years allows people like you, Trfox, and the entire NRA to prance around just like you know something about the Constitution.
Boy are you misinformed HB!!![xx(]
People like me are the reason you and your pepclub are able to be armed.[;)]
Unlike you, I have put my life and my livlyhood on the line to stand up for the 2nd Amendment, not once, but many times. You and most here are wind bags, nothing more, nothing less. You hide behind some silly 'handle' on the internet and talk trash. This is why your insults and personal attacks don't bother me. Actuly I get a good laugh at them![;)]
The internet as spawned many like you, as this site proves.
Babble on O Great One[}:)]
There should not be a debate over this at all as it is plain and simple and in English, how many more ways does this need to be explained; if you don't like it why do you even bother to come here to post as there seems to be a question of what side that you support and it certainly is not the Constitution, it really doesn't make any sense as I am sure that there are other forums that believe along the same lines as you such as the democratic and republican party websites, I am sure that they would love to have you. I have been reading your posts (even though alot of it is just propaganda from people that have no idea what they are talking about, but normally I don't say anything to the effect as it will more than likely just turn into a trash talking argument which is a waste of time) and mostly what I am seeing is a very twisted and liberal view of the Constitution and you really seem to believe the propaganda that you are posting and that is disappointing to say the least.
Jughead,
Thank you for proving my point AGAIN!!![8D][;)]
As to why I post here. MOST people here are not of your and HB's mind set. HB says 3%. I beleive it is even less. I thing it would be safe to say litterly EVERONE here beleives in and supports the Constitution, certinly the 2nd Amendment. But many here think they are better than the rest of us simply because they have bigger mouths. I enjoy a livly discussion, even if many of those involved only talk the talk and can't walk the walk.[;)]
Jughead???
You can do better than that cant you, interesting how some resort to 5th grade slander when they can't prove any point.
I tell you what, if the "walk" shows up on my property (which I consider sovereign land) stand by (using the more appropriate lingo) as there is no "talk" about it as I will do what is necessary and will defend the Constitution to the death if need be. Those that value their life so much that there is nothing that they would give their life for if necessary are worthless and will serve the beast in chains.
Sorry Jughead, I saw not trying offend you. I thought Jughead was short for your 'handle'! Like most here, you are afraid to use your real name. Not supprised. The internet is a great place to hide and blow off steam, rather than stand up and be counted![;)]
By the way there are no X Marines![:(!]
None taken just thought it a bit 5th grade is all. I am not afraid to use my real name nor of anyone or anything, I just know that big bro is ever vigilant with their looking glass and is always watching and imo its really not a good idea anyway. I don't hide and blow off steam, and yes I am an X Marine and X Soldier as I no longer work for the gov sponsored military anymore, but am on my own working for a non gov sponsored military now.
If you say so. I have several Marine friends and relatives, some retired, some discharged, and they take offence if you refer to them as X, once a Marine, always a Marine. So I have been told many times????[:0]
As for 'big brother', I have had a couple of bouts with him because I am not afraid to let people know I support the 2nd Amendment on radio, TV, and in the State Legislature. And, yes, they will come after you if you happen to have an anti-gunner in positions of authority![:(!]
I think its more melodramatics than anything, but apparently so as not to offend I can say former Marine and former Soldier, that should take care of that.
As to the anti gunners, I wasn't referring to anyone in a position of authority as we already know who they are and have their name and number; I was referring to people right here on the forums that have a distorted view of the Constitution and 2A/RKBA.
I guess Jarhead would fit you better than Jughead![;)]
But my post count is as high as it is because we were 'exchanging' views about the 2nd Amendment. I am not going to start all over. Those with the 'everything or nothing' stance are the most vocal here, and talk down, attack, and ridicule everyone who do not agree word for word with them. It don't do anyone any good except the true 'anti-gun liberals'. But you can't get them to see this so most other who support the RTKABA just walk away and chuckle and shake their head. I guess I just enjoy the 'discussion' so I keep at it.[}:)]
If you have time do some reading and you will see what I mean.[:(]
I get tired of repeating myself, and hearing the same thing from others over and over![V]
I can agree to disagree, but like most extremists, they can't!
USA
1378 Posts
Posted - 10/15/2008 : 6:01:38 PM
If you have time do some reading and you will see what I mean.
I get tired of repeating myself, and hearing the same thing from others over and over!
I can agree to disagree, but like most extremists, they can't!
The Founders were, by your defination, 'Extremists".
I prefer to stand with them, rather then thin-blooded compromisers like you, Jim Rau;
Entirely too bad you cannot find it in your heart to support American ideals and values. The CORNERSTONE of those values is preventing government from interfering with Citizens free use of weapons.
All your kicking and screaming and turning blue in the face as you hold your breath changes Nothing..you believe in gun control.
Plain and simple;
Either you support the Constitution..or you do not.
Your many, many years of going forth and 'teaching about the Second, ECT'..whatever you words were that I will not go search for...were far worse then wasted;
You were teaching your own and the NRAs' flawed interpretation of those documents that the Founders left us. You are totally unable to understand four simple words.
"Shall Not Be Infringed" ESCAPES your attention..glossed over in your rush to be safe from criminals with guns.
We need far less of your sort..and far more of the Canary * in this world.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Plain and simple;
Either you support the Constitution..or you do not.
Your many, many years of going forth and 'teaching about the Second, ECT'..whatever you words were that I will not go search for...were far worse then wasted;
You were teaching your own and the NRAs' flawed interpretation of those documents that the Founders left us. You are totally unable to understand four simple words.
"Shall Not Be Infringed" ESCAPES your attention..glossed over in your rush to be safe from criminals with guns.
We need far less of your sort..and far more of the Canary * in this world.
Why not be truthful and change the above in red to read "Either you support the constitution, as I and the other * interpert it, or you are a traitor."
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Plain and simple;
Either you support the Constitution..or you do not.
Your many, many years of going forth and 'teaching about the Second, ECT'..whatever you words were that I will not go search for...were far worse then wasted;
You were teaching your own and the NRAs' flawed interpretation of those documents that the Founders left us. You are totally unable to understand four simple words.
"Shall Not Be Infringed" ESCAPES your attention..glossed over in your rush to be safe from criminals with guns.
We need far less of your sort..and far more of the Canary * in this world.
Why not be truthful and change the above in red to read "Either you support the constitution, as I and the other * interpert it, or you are a traitor."
My son knows what the 2nd amendment means and he's 15. Too bad everybody isn't as intelligent as he is.
We ALL know what the 2nd Amendment says and means (it is plan as the nose on your face), but some only talk (rant) about it, and some of us work at geting our rights restored![;)]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
We ALL know what the 2nd Amendment says and means (it is plan as the nose on your face), but some only talk (rant) about it, and some of us work at geting our rights restored![;)]
Well Jim I'll agree some know what it says but most don't know what it means. I know hard to believe.
You mention getting "our rights restored" well if we all knew what the 2nd meant we wouldn't have this problem.
The other problem is what's the next traitorous infringement on the 2nd going to be?[xx(]
As I have said MANY, MANY, MANY , MANY TIMES this is not a perfect or ideal world, it is a real world. Some of you seen to forget this.[;)]
There has never been and never will be a government which will recognize our civil rights WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS AND RESTRICTIONS!![:(]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
As I have said MANY, MANY, MANY , MANY TIMES this is not a perfect or ideal world, it is a real world. Some of you seen to forget this.[;)]
There has never been and never will be a government which will recognize our civil rights WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS AND RESTRICTIONS!![:(]
True and that is why it is of critical importance that our citizens understand Amendment II in its entirety and hold government to it.
We know government will not willingly do so, regardless of the simple text and clear context, therefore it falls back to these ideals being held by "we the people".
The more of "we the people" that have a skewed, or incorrect view/understanding of Amendment II and the remainder of the Constitution and its Bill of Rights, the more likely we are to lose it all forever.
Nobody here fails to understand the reality of the situation;
We are living under tyranny.
Some of you support it, some of you only dimly grasp that ..but the fact remains that we have moved far from the tenants of the Founders intensions.
Those of us standing on the other side of the line are attempting to help you understand that unless and until you absolutely grasp the true meaning of that Second...you are an instrument of the enemy.
Nobody is going to go into the streets and start a shooting war over this..not until the enemy pushes much harder.
The point is ; Any that believe that government has the authority to control weapons in the hands of Citizens is doing the bidding of the enemy...knowingly, or unknowingly.
Any that you interact with, and teach your flawed version of the document to, is being ill-served ..and weakened.
The Founders started a shooting war over confiscation of weapons ..who the hell are you to decide that you are smarter then those men ? Your support for this or that restriction is nothing except giving the enemy a place at the fire.
HB,
You said 'nobody here' understands reality. Well if you are the only one who 'understands' it, are the rest of the people in the world unrealistic in 'your world'? If so there are a lot of people like you, but most are locked to protect themselves and others![;)]
Funny how all this keeps coming back to the need for strict adherence to the Constitution, huh?
To answer your question Jim..... We get there as we always should have done, we do so by refusing to accept anything less and by NEVER voting for anyone who will act in a manner to erode the Constitution, specifically in this case, Amendment II.
Nor can we allow a false version of the Constitution and its "entire" Bill of Rights (not just the 2A) to become accepted "wisdom". This requires a constant and vigilant watch for examples of such a perverted "view" or "interpretation" and a consistent pointing out of the simple truths when such a perverted example is noted.[;)]
All it takes Jim, is the will, to do so, the belief in the founding principals of individualism and the conviction to do what is right in light of these simple concepts.
Well Jeff, in principal I agree. But when we vote we only get 'our way' when 50%+1 see things as we do.
How here is where we differ, I believe we must infiltrate the 'enemy' (as HB calls them)[}:)] and work from within to change hearts and minds. If the 3%'s (so HB says) want to change people to their way of thinking they have to convince 47%+1 to their way of thinking to make the changes in the system they want. Am I wrong here??
You don't change any one's way of thinking to yours by attacking them and putting them on the defencive, even if your message is true, which yours is. You are trying to defy human nature and that will NEVER work to win people over to our side.
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Well Jeff, in principal I agree. But when we vote we only get 'our way' when 50%+1 see things as we do.
How here is where we differ, I believe we must infiltrate the 'enemy' (as HB calls them)[}:)] and work from within to change hearts and minds. If the 3%'s (so HB says) want to change people to their way of thinking they have to convince 47%+1 to their way of thinking to make the changes in the system they want. Am I wrong here??
You don't change any one's way of thinking to yours by attacking them and putting them on the defencive, even if your message is true, which yours is. You are trying to defy human nature and that will NEVER work to win people over to our side.
Well Jim, I simply don't have much "intrigue" and "covert infiltration" desire in me.
As to changing peoples 'hearts and minds' in this area, I prefer to call things the way I see them and to simply confront and contrast false assumptions and wrong understandings of constitutional issues, when I see them.
I like to use the Founding Principals of Individualism, the Constitution and its Bill of Rights as a "yardstick", or as a "measure" of government actions and of peoples beliefs.
Frankly, I find that this may actually make some people reevaluate their positions, or at least have some "vague feeling" that maybe the things they believe to be true, may not actually be.
Regardless, that's the way I do it and the way i'll continue to do it. I am a crotchety, cantankerous and confrontational man who has lost patience with the continuing decline of the Republic and for those who facilitate that decline.[;)]
Maybe I am getting too old and tired, but I just like to tackle these issues head-on and call things as I see them. [:)]
Jeff,
You didn't get were you are without influencing people. I have the same goal and believes you do, BUT
Before you can change a persons mind, influence them, you have to:
1. Get their attention with out putting them on the defensive.
2. Gain their respect (if they don't respect you you have no creditability)
3. Use calm, clear logic to get your point across.
Now can you see what I mean. It is not really being 'covert', just using common sense, and good people skills.[;)]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Jeff,
You didn't get were you are without influencing people. I have the same goal and believes you do, BUT
Before you can change a persons mind, influence them, you have to:
1. Get their attention with out putting them on the defensive.
2. Gain their respect (if they don't respect you you have no creditability)
3. Use calm, clear logic to get your point across.
Now can you see what I mean. It is not really being 'covert', just using common sense, and good people skills.[;)]
I'll take my direct approach Jim. It actually works quite well, especially in person.
As for the remainder of my post reference being crotchety and cantankerous, you do know what facetious means....
An open, honest and direct illustration for people, of their positions, contrasted against the Constitution/BOR/Founding Principals, is a fine method and as I said, it has worked just fine for the many years I have done so.
In reality, most people are merely ignorant and never had such presented and/or contrasted for them before.
Jeff,
So you don't get get their attention w/o putting them their defensive.
You have no credibility with those you address.
And I am sure you do not use calm, clear logic to influence them.[}:)]
In case you have not noticed, I too am very direct in my approach.[;)]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Jeff,
So you don't get get their attention w/o putting them their defensive.
You have no credibility with those you address.
And I am sure you do not use calm, clear logic to influence them.[}:)]
In case you have not noticed, I too am very direct in my approach.[;)]
There you go Jim, supposing stuff again.[}:)]
You have never been around me when I am sitting, discussing issues like this with the off-base and misinformed, aka the ignorant.
As to your being sure that I do not use calm, clear logic, all you have to go by in making this assumption, are these forums, now isn't it? [:)]
Even here, where I really enjoy getting boisterous and majorly confrontational, my "logic" is clear and simple to understand AND damn difficult to refute.
The "calm" part of it, reference these forums, I gave up on. Being calm isn't nearly as enjoyable as poking holes in 'straw-men' and the 'cut, slash and thrust' of a good verbal dual.[;)][}:)]
And yes Jim, I did notice that you are direct, albeit you take a path I will never tread upon.
I am a purist and you are not. That is fine.
Your heart seems in the right place, we merely disagree on some key points, distinctions and concepts.
Comments
It really wasn't that long ago!
How come those folks weren't slaughtering each other in the streets, before all of these inane laws?
It's all crap. It is a way to know who is armed, and another "cash cow" plain and simple.[xx(]
I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
I did that for my first hunting rifle.
Only difference was it was a surplus store.
Even bought ammo....AT THE SAME TIME,
carried it out MYSELF. [:0][:0][:0]
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
I did that for my first hunting rifle.
Only difference was it was a surplus store.
Even bought ammo....AT THE SAME TIME,
carried it our MYSELF. [:0][:0][:0]
In the late 1970's and early 1980's my brother and I would bring our shotguns to school and leave them laying on the back seat of the car while we were in class. Then after school we would go hunting right behind the school grounds ! I remember one student even brought a long gun into shop class to have something fixed by the shop teacher.
Times have changed.....for the worst !
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
I did that for my first hunting rifle.
Only difference was it was a surplus store.
Even bought ammo....AT THE SAME TIME,
carried it our MYSELF. [:0][:0][:0]
In the late 1970's and early 1980's my brother and I would bring our shotguns to school and leave them laying on the back seat of the car while we were in class. Then after school we would go hunting right behind the school grounds ! I remember one student even brought a long gun into shop class to have something fixed by the shop teacher.
Times have changed.....for the worst !
Now a days you'd get 20 years for that AND lose the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS FOR EVER.[xx(]
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
I did that for my first hunting rifle.
Only difference was it was a surplus store.
Even bought ammo....AT THE SAME TIME,
carried it our MYSELF. [:0][:0][:0]
In the late 1970's and early 1980's my brother and I would bring our shotguns to school and leave them laying on the back seat of the car while we were in class. Then after school we would go hunting right behind the school grounds ! I remember one student even brought a long gun into shop class to have something fixed by the shop teacher.
Times have changed.....for the worst !
I did the same NYForester,......we used to go dove hunting after school.
I graduated in 1980.
Man,......what changes have taken place.
Senior Member
USA
1359 Posts
Posted - 09/24/2008 : 11:46:32 AM
I truly feel sorry for you guys!!
Thanks, Mr.Rau; That indicates to me that down where you live, deep inside, you understand that we are right and you wrong..thus you can understnd our Angst over gun laws.
quote:If we do lose the right to Keep and Bear Arms, which I will defend to the death, it will be because of people like you!!!
Jim,Jim,Jim...How many times does it have to explained in teeny-tiny words..you no longer HAVE a "Right to Keep and Bear Arms"..you have PRIVILEGES to do so...revocable at any time they so choose. "Defend to the Death" ??????? I assume you are writting these posts from beyond the grave..???
"People Like US" is the SOLE reason you still have a gun. Oh..yea. Pardon me..the King will makes damn sure his men remain Armed...
quote:Willing to 'rant', and personaly attack others, but not act!!! AH, SUCH a trite bit of nonsense. You are unable to understand that educating others IS "Action"..THE ABSOLUTE only THING LEFT TO US. Naturally, that must needs leave out your dog and pony show you brag about..where you teach impressionable minds your regurgitated New American constitution...
quote:I wish you a good day, but then in your IDEAL world everyday is a good day!!!
I haven't hade a good day since 1968..when others like you collabororated to strike the single greatest blow for tyranny since the British marched on that fateful day long ago..and Mores the pity..we did not meet them at the bridge.
That move 40 years allows people like you, Trfox, and the entire NRA to prance around just like you know something about the Constitution.
People like me are the reason you and your pepclub are able to be armed.[;)]
Unlike you, I have put my life and my livlyhood on the line to stand up for the 2nd Amendment, not once, but many times. You and most here are wind bags, nothing more, nothing less. You hide behind some silly 'handle' on the internet and talk trash. This is why your insults and personal attacks don't bother me. Actuly I get a good laugh at them![;)]
The internet as spawned many like you, as this site proves.
Babble on O Great One[}:)]
Thank you for proving my point AGAIN!!![8D][;)]
As to why I post here. MOST people here are not of your and HB's mind set. HB says 3%. I beleive it is even less. I thing it would be safe to say litterly EVERONE here beleives in and supports the Constitution, certinly the 2nd Amendment. But many here think they are better than the rest of us simply because they have bigger mouths. I enjoy a livly discussion, even if many of those involved only talk the talk and can't walk the walk.[;)]
You can do better than that cant you, interesting how some resort to 5th grade slander when they can't prove any point.
I tell you what, if the "walk" shows up on my property (which I consider sovereign land) stand by (using the more appropriate lingo) as there is no "talk" about it as I will do what is necessary and will defend the Constitution to the death if need be. Those that value their life so much that there is nothing that they would give their life for if necessary are worthless and will serve the beast in chains.
By the way there are no X Marines![:(!]
As for 'big brother', I have had a couple of bouts with him because I am not afraid to let people know I support the 2nd Amendment on radio, TV, and in the State Legislature. And, yes, they will come after you if you happen to have an anti-gunner in positions of authority![:(!]
As to the anti gunners, I wasn't referring to anyone in a position of authority as we already know who they are and have their name and number; I was referring to people right here on the forums that have a distorted view of the Constitution and 2A/RKBA.
But my post count is as high as it is because we were 'exchanging' views about the 2nd Amendment. I am not going to start all over. Those with the 'everything or nothing' stance are the most vocal here, and talk down, attack, and ridicule everyone who do not agree word for word with them. It don't do anyone any good except the true 'anti-gun liberals'. But you can't get them to see this so most other who support the RTKABA just walk away and chuckle and shake their head. I guess I just enjoy the 'discussion' so I keep at it.[}:)]
That statement seems hypocritical.
"I am not going to start all over."
Unless the servers get knocked out.
"I guess I just enjoy the 'discussion' so I keep at it."
Yes, alot of people on forums like to argue and I guess that is why some come here as others come here to converse about interests and concerns.
I get tired of repeating myself, and hearing the same thing from others over and over![V]
I can agree to disagree, but like most extremists, they can't!
Senior Member
USA
1378 Posts
Posted - 10/15/2008 : 6:01:38 PM
If you have time do some reading and you will see what I mean.
I get tired of repeating myself, and hearing the same thing from others over and over!
I can agree to disagree, but like most extremists, they can't!
The Founders were, by your defination, 'Extremists".
I prefer to stand with them, rather then thin-blooded compromisers like you, Jim Rau;
Entirely too bad you cannot find it in your heart to support American ideals and values. The CORNERSTONE of those values is preventing government from interfering with Citizens free use of weapons.
All your kicking and screaming and turning blue in the face as you hold your breath changes Nothing..you believe in gun control.
Either you support the Constitution..or you do not.
Your many, many years of going forth and 'teaching about the Second, ECT'..whatever you words were that I will not go search for...were far worse then wasted;
You were teaching your own and the NRAs' flawed interpretation of those documents that the Founders left us. You are totally unable to understand four simple words.
"Shall Not Be Infringed" ESCAPES your attention..glossed over in your rush to be safe from criminals with guns.
We need far less of your sort..and far more of the Canary * in this world.
Plain and simple;
Either you support the Constitution..or you do not.
Your many, many years of going forth and 'teaching about the Second, ECT'..whatever you words were that I will not go search for...were far worse then wasted;
You were teaching your own and the NRAs' flawed interpretation of those documents that the Founders left us. You are totally unable to understand four simple words.
"Shall Not Be Infringed" ESCAPES your attention..glossed over in your rush to be safe from criminals with guns.
We need far less of your sort..and far more of the Canary * in this world.
Why not be truthful and change the above in red to read "Either you support the constitution, as I and the other * interpert it, or you are a traitor."
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Plain and simple;
Either you support the Constitution..or you do not.
Your many, many years of going forth and 'teaching about the Second, ECT'..whatever you words were that I will not go search for...were far worse then wasted;
You were teaching your own and the NRAs' flawed interpretation of those documents that the Founders left us. You are totally unable to understand four simple words.
"Shall Not Be Infringed" ESCAPES your attention..glossed over in your rush to be safe from criminals with guns.
We need far less of your sort..and far more of the Canary * in this world.
Why not be truthful and change the above in red to read "Either you support the constitution, as I and the other * interpert it, or you are a traitor."
My son knows what the 2nd amendment means and he's 15. Too bad everybody isn't as intelligent as he is.
We ALL know what the 2nd Amendment says and means (it is plan as the nose on your face), but some only talk (rant) about it, and some of us work at geting our rights restored![;)]
Well Jim I'll agree some know what it says but most don't know what it means. I know hard to believe.
You mention getting "our rights restored" well if we all knew what the 2nd meant we wouldn't have this problem.
The other problem is what's the next traitorous infringement on the 2nd going to be?[xx(]
There has never been and never will be a government which will recognize our civil rights WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS AND RESTRICTIONS!![:(]
As I have said MANY, MANY, MANY , MANY TIMES this is not a perfect or ideal world, it is a real world. Some of you seen to forget this.[;)]
There has never been and never will be a government which will recognize our civil rights WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS AND RESTRICTIONS!![:(]
True and that is why it is of critical importance that our citizens understand Amendment II in its entirety and hold government to it.
We know government will not willingly do so, regardless of the simple text and clear context, therefore it falls back to these ideals being held by "we the people".
The more of "we the people" that have a skewed, or incorrect view/understanding of Amendment II and the remainder of the Constitution and its Bill of Rights, the more likely we are to lose it all forever.
Nobody here fails to understand the reality of the situation;
We are living under tyranny.
Some of you support it, some of you only dimly grasp that ..but the fact remains that we have moved far from the tenants of the Founders intensions.
Those of us standing on the other side of the line are attempting to help you understand that unless and until you absolutely grasp the true meaning of that Second...you are an instrument of the enemy.
Nobody is going to go into the streets and start a shooting war over this..not until the enemy pushes much harder.
The point is ; Any that believe that government has the authority to control weapons in the hands of Citizens is doing the bidding of the enemy...knowingly, or unknowingly.
Any that you interact with, and teach your flawed version of the document to, is being ill-served ..and weakened.
The Founders started a shooting war over confiscation of weapons ..who the hell are you to decide that you are smarter then those men ? Your support for this or that restriction is nothing except giving the enemy a place at the fire.
YOUR fire...not mine.
You said 'nobody here' understands reality. Well if you are the only one who 'understands' it, are the rest of the people in the world unrealistic in 'your world'? If so there are a lot of people like you, but most are locked to protect themselves and others![;)]
We are back to square one again. How do we get the restrictions lifted, and our rights restored?[;)]
Funny how all this keeps coming back to the need for strict adherence to the Constitution, huh?
To answer your question Jim..... We get there as we always should have done, we do so by refusing to accept anything less and by NEVER voting for anyone who will act in a manner to erode the Constitution, specifically in this case, Amendment II.
Nor can we allow a false version of the Constitution and its "entire" Bill of Rights (not just the 2A) to become accepted "wisdom". This requires a constant and vigilant watch for examples of such a perverted "view" or "interpretation" and a consistent pointing out of the simple truths when such a perverted example is noted.[;)]
All it takes Jim, is the will, to do so, the belief in the founding principals of individualism and the conviction to do what is right in light of these simple concepts.
How here is where we differ, I believe we must infiltrate the 'enemy' (as HB calls them)[}:)] and work from within to change hearts and minds. If the 3%'s (so HB says) want to change people to their way of thinking they have to convince 47%+1 to their way of thinking to make the changes in the system they want. Am I wrong here??
You don't change any one's way of thinking to yours by attacking them and putting them on the defencive, even if your message is true, which yours is. You are trying to defy human nature and that will NEVER work to win people over to our side.
Well Jeff, in principal I agree. But when we vote we only get 'our way' when 50%+1 see things as we do.
How here is where we differ, I believe we must infiltrate the 'enemy' (as HB calls them)[}:)] and work from within to change hearts and minds. If the 3%'s (so HB says) want to change people to their way of thinking they have to convince 47%+1 to their way of thinking to make the changes in the system they want. Am I wrong here??
You don't change any one's way of thinking to yours by attacking them and putting them on the defencive, even if your message is true, which yours is. You are trying to defy human nature and that will NEVER work to win people over to our side.
Well Jim, I simply don't have much "intrigue" and "covert infiltration" desire in me.
As to changing peoples 'hearts and minds' in this area, I prefer to call things the way I see them and to simply confront and contrast false assumptions and wrong understandings of constitutional issues, when I see them.
I like to use the Founding Principals of Individualism, the Constitution and its Bill of Rights as a "yardstick", or as a "measure" of government actions and of peoples beliefs.
Frankly, I find that this may actually make some people reevaluate their positions, or at least have some "vague feeling" that maybe the things they believe to be true, may not actually be.
Regardless, that's the way I do it and the way i'll continue to do it. I am a crotchety, cantankerous and confrontational man who has lost patience with the continuing decline of the Republic and for those who facilitate that decline.[;)]
Maybe I am getting too old and tired, but I just like to tackle these issues head-on and call things as I see them. [:)]
You didn't get were you are without influencing people. I have the same goal and believes you do, BUT
Before you can change a persons mind, influence them, you have to:
1. Get their attention with out putting them on the defensive.
2. Gain their respect (if they don't respect you you have no creditability)
3. Use calm, clear logic to get your point across.
Now can you see what I mean. It is not really being 'covert', just using common sense, and good people skills.[;)]
Jeff,
You didn't get were you are without influencing people. I have the same goal and believes you do, BUT
Before you can change a persons mind, influence them, you have to:
1. Get their attention with out putting them on the defensive.
2. Gain their respect (if they don't respect you you have no creditability)
3. Use calm, clear logic to get your point across.
Now can you see what I mean. It is not really being 'covert', just using common sense, and good people skills.[;)]
I'll take my direct approach Jim. It actually works quite well, especially in person.
As for the remainder of my post reference being crotchety and cantankerous, you do know what facetious means....
An open, honest and direct illustration for people, of their positions, contrasted against the Constitution/BOR/Founding Principals, is a fine method and as I said, it has worked just fine for the many years I have done so.
In reality, most people are merely ignorant and never had such presented and/or contrasted for them before.
So you don't get get their attention w/o putting them their defensive.
You have no credibility with those you address.
And I am sure you do not use calm, clear logic to influence them.[}:)]
In case you have not noticed, I too am very direct in my approach.[;)]
Jeff,
So you don't get get their attention w/o putting them their defensive.
You have no credibility with those you address.
And I am sure you do not use calm, clear logic to influence them.[}:)]
In case you have not noticed, I too am very direct in my approach.[;)]
There you go Jim, supposing stuff again.[}:)]
You have never been around me when I am sitting, discussing issues like this with the off-base and misinformed, aka the ignorant.
As to your being sure that I do not use calm, clear logic, all you have to go by in making this assumption, are these forums, now isn't it? [:)]
Even here, where I really enjoy getting boisterous and majorly confrontational, my "logic" is clear and simple to understand AND damn difficult to refute.
The "calm" part of it, reference these forums, I gave up on. Being calm isn't nearly as enjoyable as poking holes in 'straw-men' and the 'cut, slash and thrust' of a good verbal dual.[;)][}:)]
And yes Jim, I did notice that you are direct, albeit you take a path I will never tread upon.
I am a purist and you are not. That is fine.
Your heart seems in the right place, we merely disagree on some key points, distinctions and concepts.