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socialist fascist communist, who cares all dirty meanies in need of being shot. were America may have been heading in recent times is not the ideal America, we need to get back to a strictly constitutional America, Lincoln really screwed us by giving governement overwhelming strenght vs. the state. (glad abought the slavery freedom part, but was not what it was really all aout) he even shut down freedom of the press by not letting opinions oppposing his print.(look it up) since then the strength of the state has been destroyed and the feds. have been overstepping there constitutional boundaries, where do we draw the line. I say when we are faced with losing our power to protect our selves from tyranny.
Melkor what side do you stand on? do you embrace fascism? or do you want to go back to constitutional America. or somewhere in between? sounds like you gave up guns for ineffective revolution weapons. you cant fight governemental tyranny with those. we may not have to fight just unite to the cause, they dont want to eliminate much of there own population.
I've thought about what I will do when it all goes down, and I hope I'm able to do the patriotic things. The questions remain: should I put my wife and kids in harms way? Do I put the rest of my life on hold for the quest? If it was me, by myself, no problem. How does one balance the need to be the breadwinner, when the stand would surely bring unemployment? The family protector, when my actions would bring homelessness danger to them?
I have 3 teenage sons I can equip, as well as myself with a hicap semiauto miltype rifle w/1000rds(or so), webgear and a handgun, leaving mom w/hicap shotgun and a pistol. Am I emotionally and morally ready to lead my whole family to possible distruction.
I know how I hope I'll act, but will I? I certainly don't want them under tyranny but,...
THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS A FATHER ASKS HIMSELF!
quote:Originally posted by gundad308
should I put my wife and kids in harms way?
Have you talked with them about it?
My wife is more than willing to stand by my side.
#1 son is older, and on his own.
#2 son, we wouldn't leave him in a world that would follow such an event.
quote:Originally posted by melkor
I just bring reason to the barking ankle bitters, pointing out that your group of minutemen even if nationalaly organized would be nothing but a tiny ankle bitting doggie, that will get spanked out of existance. Bad dog !!
This is exactly why the people will loose. Because the overwhelming majority of the people are just like this guy ,willing to lay down and part his back side. Thank God men had a pair years ago or we would be drinking tea and eating little dry cookies each afternoon.
Freedom comes with a price, few are willing to pay yet they love the freedom.
I am a realist and can't argue what the future looks like. That said I find some optimism when the order is given that I have spent more than a career in the military and since retirement I know many cops from different agencies around the state and this discussion comes up frequently. Exactly 100% of military and law enformcement agree that they would never confiscate weapons from a non-criminal. Two reasons are given: 1) They would consider it more dangerous than on a domestic violence case and would have to do it many times per day and 2) They believe in the citizens right to have guns....even if the judges are liberal socialists....Not arguing just holding out for any hope I can.
easiest way is to have a heap of junk guns, and when they want them, give them to them....that way you are a law abading citizen...the ones that count should be well hidden..there isnt one sure fire way..living in the country gives more oppurtunities than if you live in a city...living in a dry climate gives more options than if you live in a wet one..just experiment. buy an old junker for $20 and try different things. if you have it buried for 6 months and it shows no sign of deteriation it should be ok, but 12 months would be better than 6, that way you get all weather effecting it....what worked here might not work there, you sure have colder weather in a lot of places than we have, for me a stabilised sand dune works, with the goodies buried at least 8 feet down so metal detectors wont find them....maybe some of you live where there are a lot of caves with places you could hide them, maybe some of you would have to put them in walls or some such safe place. i`m sure if you think carefully about it you will work out where to put them, and unless you have your guns registered there will be no way for the government to prove what you own or dont own, there is nothing stopping you from buying guns and giving them away as gifts, or buying guns and finding out that they dont suit you therefore you re sell them. registration is going to be your enemy, as it is everywhere else in the world..but with every law there are loop holes, you have just got to look for them, and failing that, you just have to be smart.
quote:Originally posted by oreegun
I am a realist and can't argue what the future looks like. That said I find some optimism when the order is given that I have spent more than a career in the military and since retirement I know many cops from different agencies around the state and this discussion comes up frequently. Exactly 100% of military and law enformcement agree that they would never confiscate weapons from a non-criminal. Two reasons are given: 1) They would consider it more dangerous than on a domestic violence case and would have to do it many times per day and 2) They believe in the citizens right to have guns....even if the judges are liberal socialists....Not arguing just holding out for any hope I can.
I pray this is so. The thought of families losing loved ones over tyrannical laws hurts me. I support LE (used to work for Corrections dept.)and the military (and I'm a combat vet), and it disturbs me to think of my home turning into Ruby Ridge or Waco. I will not go silently into that good night.....
quote:Originally posted by gundad308
I've thought about what I will do when it all goes down, and I hope I'm able to do the patriotic things. The questions remain: should I put my wife and kids in harms way? Do I put the rest of my life on hold for the quest? If it was me, by myself, no problem. How does one balance the need to be the breadwinner, when the stand would surely bring unemployment? The family protector, when my actions would bring homelessness danger to them?
I have 3 teenage sons I can equip, as well as myself with a hicap semiauto miltype rifle w/1000rds(or so), webgear and a handgun, leaving mom w/hicap shotgun and a pistol. Am I emotionally and morally ready to lead my whole family to possible distruction.
I know how I hope I'll act, but will I? I certainly don't want them under tyranny but,...
THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS A FATHER ASKS HIMSELF!
When the time comes for "the choice" (to be "chipped" or not to be "chipped") many will reason that they "have" to, to provide for their family. To be "chipped" will be to completely surrender, to be a slave. Freedom or slavery is the choice. What do you want for your family? To be alive, and a slave, is worse than dying free. And the choice between the two may come before the chip. But all roads lead to slavery, except one. It may look the most costly in the short term, but it isn't even a close comparison in the long term. If there is no "long term" for freedom lover's, so be it.
HB,,,I am late to the thread but I was interested in your story about what happened to the guns and provisions you helpped dig up. Just wondering, in your opinion, do you think a vacume sealed canistier would prevent that?? I had thought about installing a one way air valve on a PVC tube and sucking the air out. Once a vacume was established, wouldn't that midigate any corrosive effects? Just wondering. What other protective agents could you use? Beside cosmoline. Would regular oil harm the metal? Like a synthetic motor oil?
There is canyon out near my place where rain would not be an issue to much due to a alot of slopping terrain and there is lots of places to hide things. Anyway. It was a thought.
I am in agreement that we would have advance notice. No way to keep that secret.
I believe that a vacuum would appreciatively extend the life of buried goods. I would be hesitant to add chemicals to the mix ..like medicines, ect. My impression is that PVC will eventually allow air to migrate thru the walls.
I did some short term tests (6 months) here ..we get 35 inches of rain per year...in PVC, buried in a sand pile I had. That allowed the water to drain readily away from the tube. I used Rig as a dressing, fairly heavy application.
No rust, no damage.
I think it important to chose a site well drained ..and the more porous the soil, the better.
Another friend, about 15 years ago, was going thru a horrendous divorce. He placed about a dozen weapons in PVC underground for about a year. He asked me to help him get `em out...he had `misplaced' the tubes. Again, we found them ..metal detector. Came out of the tubes in very nice condition. All he used was common automotive grease to coat the arms.
Frankly...for short term, a year or less ..I think no problem. Envisioning 5-10 years makes me shake my head in doubt. The best plan would be to find a nice, dry cave, and carefully seal off a section of it.
I don't trust buried capsules, when my life depends on it.
We MUST try them ..as another means to secure our continued ability to fight.
Perhaps we might farm out a weapon or two to people we trust...but those people are known associates...and will be visited by the Beast as a matter of course.
Still, another avenue to consider.
The point being...try and diversify your assets for your own protection. Use the best ingenuity you are capable of. Your life...and perhaps the life of the Republic...depends upon you.
Some good ideas on here, one of my fields has been a mortician and I have had to do some exhumations and have found that the vaults with coffins buried in a remote level area generally gathered alot of water making the exhumation that much more difficult whereas the vaults with coffins buried near an established large tree didn't seem to gather much water if any due to the fact of the tree absorbing the water; which in fact may be a good place to bury a stash either very close to or under a tree and place a good layer of rocks in the bottom of the hole another 12 to 36 inches or so for drainage just to be safe if the need so arises; could also be used as a potential marker as well provided there are several trees, so as not to arouse any obvious suspicion.
Maybe I just don't"get it". But... if/when confiscation begins, isn't that when we are supposed to use this weaponry for it's intended 2A purpose? To me, that is the official death blow to the Constitution, pretending it didn't happen and trying to find a way around it? No thanks. Burying it and pretending you have capitulated makes no sense to me? I don't get it.
Dan Kelly, when will that day come to dig them up? Never? I mean, come on! Why have them if you only "talk" about using them, but when they try to take them, they go buried and un-used?
Does it have to be a major societal meltdown to dig them up, or is removal of 2A alone, enough to fight for? The precedent set by the founders tells me the answer I need.
I believe that some of us were just referring to possible long term storage for stashes of extra weaponry and ammunition is all at least that was my intention anyway and it sure beats the he-double-hockeysticks out of keeping it too close during those times considering Alice and her looking glass and droves of minions who are ever vigilant in their pursuit of us and our weapons and such...
quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
Maybe I just don't"get it". But... if/when confiscation begins, isn't that when we are supposed to use this weaponry for it's intended 2A purpose? To me, that is the official death blow to the Constitution, pretending it didn't happen and trying to find a way around it? No thanks. Burying it and pretending you have capitulated makes no sense to me? I don't get it.
Dan Kelly, when will that day come to dig them up? Never? I mean, come on! Why have them if you only "talk" about using them, but when they try to take them, they go buried and un-used?
Does it have to be a major societal meltdown to dig them up, or is removal of 2A alone, enough to fight for? The precedent set by the founders tells me the answer I need.
It is called "Plan B" JP. I wouldn't bury many arms, or THAT much ammo.
As Highball once said, MANY things a man needs can be recovered from WBD's.
HB,, Thanks for the info. Very good. I agree 100% with what you were saying. Even if I just went to the back yard with a gas powered posthole digger I could get 4 feet straight down. But I was thinking more like hiding them AWAY from imediate area for, as you said a few months untill the heat died down. And wasn't planning on keeping them there more than a year. After that,, I think it would be a moot point. I also considered hiding things in the walls and just covering them up. Though I am not sure how diligent they would be in their search. Taking out walls and such. I various other ideas.
By the way. I just picked a new XD in.45 today. 9 13's to feed it with. I am SOOOOOOO Jazzed. I can't get out to blast until Thursday though. looking to put at least 2 or 300 rounds to break it in.
Comments
Melkor what side do you stand on? do you embrace fascism? or do you want to go back to constitutional America. or somewhere in between? sounds like you gave up guns for ineffective revolution weapons. you cant fight governemental tyranny with those. we may not have to fight just unite to the cause, they dont want to eliminate much of there own population.
I have 3 teenage sons I can equip, as well as myself with a hicap semiauto miltype rifle w/1000rds(or so), webgear and a handgun, leaving mom w/hicap shotgun and a pistol. Am I emotionally and morally ready to lead my whole family to possible distruction.
I know how I hope I'll act, but will I? I certainly don't want them under tyranny but,...
THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS A FATHER ASKS HIMSELF!
should I put my wife and kids in harms way?
Have you talked with them about it?
My wife is more than willing to stand by my side.
#1 son is older, and on his own.
#2 son, we wouldn't leave him in a world that would follow such an event.
I just bring reason to the barking ankle bitters, pointing out that your group of minutemen even if nationalaly organized would be nothing but a tiny ankle bitting doggie, that will get spanked out of existance. Bad dog !!
This is exactly why the people will loose. Because the overwhelming majority of the people are just like this guy ,willing to lay down and part his back side. Thank God men had a pair years ago or we would be drinking tea and eating little dry cookies each afternoon.
Freedom comes with a price, few are willing to pay yet they love the freedom.
I am a realist and can't argue what the future looks like. That said I find some optimism when the order is given that I have spent more than a career in the military and since retirement I know many cops from different agencies around the state and this discussion comes up frequently. Exactly 100% of military and law enformcement agree that they would never confiscate weapons from a non-criminal. Two reasons are given: 1) They would consider it more dangerous than on a domestic violence case and would have to do it many times per day and 2) They believe in the citizens right to have guns....even if the judges are liberal socialists....Not arguing just holding out for any hope I can.
I pray this is so. The thought of families losing loved ones over tyrannical laws hurts me. I support LE (used to work for Corrections dept.)and the military (and I'm a combat vet), and it disturbs me to think of my home turning into Ruby Ridge or Waco. I will not go silently into that good night.....
I've thought about what I will do when it all goes down, and I hope I'm able to do the patriotic things. The questions remain: should I put my wife and kids in harms way? Do I put the rest of my life on hold for the quest? If it was me, by myself, no problem. How does one balance the need to be the breadwinner, when the stand would surely bring unemployment? The family protector, when my actions would bring homelessness danger to them?
I have 3 teenage sons I can equip, as well as myself with a hicap semiauto miltype rifle w/1000rds(or so), webgear and a handgun, leaving mom w/hicap shotgun and a pistol. Am I emotionally and morally ready to lead my whole family to possible distruction.
I know how I hope I'll act, but will I? I certainly don't want them under tyranny but,...
THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS A FATHER ASKS HIMSELF!
When the time comes for "the choice" (to be "chipped" or not to be "chipped") many will reason that they "have" to, to provide for their family. To be "chipped" will be to completely surrender, to be a slave. Freedom or slavery is the choice. What do you want for your family? To be alive, and a slave, is worse than dying free. And the choice between the two may come before the chip. But all roads lead to slavery, except one. It may look the most costly in the short term, but it isn't even a close comparison in the long term. If there is no "long term" for freedom lover's, so be it.
There is canyon out near my place where rain would not be an issue to much due to a alot of slopping terrain and there is lots of places to hide things. Anyway. It was a thought.
I am in agreement that we would have advance notice. No way to keep that secret.
I believe that a vacuum would appreciatively extend the life of buried goods. I would be hesitant to add chemicals to the mix ..like medicines, ect. My impression is that PVC will eventually allow air to migrate thru the walls.
I did some short term tests (6 months) here ..we get 35 inches of rain per year...in PVC, buried in a sand pile I had. That allowed the water to drain readily away from the tube. I used Rig as a dressing, fairly heavy application.
No rust, no damage.
I think it important to chose a site well drained ..and the more porous the soil, the better.
Another friend, about 15 years ago, was going thru a horrendous divorce. He placed about a dozen weapons in PVC underground for about a year. He asked me to help him get `em out...he had `misplaced' the tubes. Again, we found them ..metal detector. Came out of the tubes in very nice condition. All he used was common automotive grease to coat the arms.
Frankly...for short term, a year or less ..I think no problem. Envisioning 5-10 years makes me shake my head in doubt. The best plan would be to find a nice, dry cave, and carefully seal off a section of it.
I don't trust buried capsules, when my life depends on it.
We MUST try them ..as another means to secure our continued ability to fight.
Perhaps we might farm out a weapon or two to people we trust...but those people are known associates...and will be visited by the Beast as a matter of course.
Still, another avenue to consider.
The point being...try and diversify your assets for your own protection. Use the best ingenuity you are capable of. Your life...and perhaps the life of the Republic...depends upon you.
Dan Kelly, when will that day come to dig them up? Never? I mean, come on! Why have them if you only "talk" about using them, but when they try to take them, they go buried and un-used?
Does it have to be a major societal meltdown to dig them up, or is removal of 2A alone, enough to fight for? The precedent set by the founders tells me the answer I need.
Maybe I just don't"get it". But... if/when confiscation begins, isn't that when we are supposed to use this weaponry for it's intended 2A purpose? To me, that is the official death blow to the Constitution, pretending it didn't happen and trying to find a way around it? No thanks. Burying it and pretending you have capitulated makes no sense to me? I don't get it.
Dan Kelly, when will that day come to dig them up? Never? I mean, come on! Why have them if you only "talk" about using them, but when they try to take them, they go buried and un-used?
Does it have to be a major societal meltdown to dig them up, or is removal of 2A alone, enough to fight for? The precedent set by the founders tells me the answer I need.
It is called "Plan B" JP. I wouldn't bury many arms, or THAT much ammo.
As Highball once said, MANY things a man needs can be recovered from WBD's.
By the way. I just picked a new XD in.45 today. 9 13's to feed it with. I am SOOOOOOO Jazzed. I can't get out to blast until Thursday though. looking to put at least 2 or 300 rounds to break it in.
Looks like a good first day for the rest of our lives, ehh ?? A day at the range...new guns...hard to beat
First match of the year. [:D]
I don't see a gun grab happening.
I see;
a major tax on the ammo
a major tax on the arms
shutting down the ability to purchase new
states given the ability to sue manufacturers
Then...
Registration of all hand guns
Then long guns
Then impound of arms holding more and 7 rounds
Then the gun grab will happen.
You see, you have to remove the ability to fight without your opponent knowing they been crippled.
I think this will take about 3-5 years for this to happen.
The only advantage we have is we can replace the House and Senate in 2 years and start repairing the damage done.
Now if this does happen...
As one of my favorite radio show hosts stated.
"If Obama attacks the Second Amendment, for his sake I hope he is well versed in the effects of the American and French Revolutions."
A call to the removal of arms will result in the firing of arms and the removal of heads.
has anybody read the "Terms of Use" on a safety deposit box?
My banks does not mention firearms but does mention hazardous materials. Is say 200 rounds of 45ACP and a 1911 hazardous materials?