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My latest encounters with "THE LAW"
nyforester
Member Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
I own some land in the foothills of the Adirondack Mountains of Upstate New York. I have been feeding the wildlife all summer. I guess it is "against the law" in NY to feed deer. Well, I was visited by 2 environmental law officers (ECO's) last Sunday. I believe they were tipped off because it is a very remote parcel of land. They gave me a citation for feeding "the deer". I tried to explain that I was feeding wildlife ! I was fairly calm and am very surprised that I did not blow up as I would have in my youth. I probably would have been hauled away with arm and leg irons 20 years ago ! They made me unload the side arm I was carrying, and also went through my vehicle and found the other arms in my possession. We truly are not free anymore. The government would like to control everything including even where you relieve yourself ! These 2 officers were back in the woods over ? mile on a Sunday evening to write me a ticket ! They were so brain washed by the government that they could not even be reasoned with. They would not even listen to my side. They were robots ! I am awaiting my court date and will explain my case to the judge. I am sure it will get me no where ![:(!]
After hunting this evening (exactly one week later) at another location there was another ECO waiting by my vehicle to harass me once again. He went through everything in my vehicle also ! No tickets this time ! I have been hunting for 30 years and have never had an experience like this before. I have never even been approached by the law while hunting or fishing. Times are changing fast ! Government is tightening its grip ![V]
After hunting this evening (exactly one week later) at another location there was another ECO waiting by my vehicle to harass me once again. He went through everything in my vehicle also ! No tickets this time ! I have been hunting for 30 years and have never had an experience like this before. I have never even been approached by the law while hunting or fishing. Times are changing fast ! Government is tightening its grip ![V]
Abort Cuomo
Comments
Yep, forester, they are. Troubling that so few seem to recognize this fact though.
Sarcasm on..........How dare you break such a fine malum prohibitum law and to do so while carrying a gun no less!!! Heavens, what is America coming to where people go around with GUNS.
Why would you think that you are free to use your own property as you see fit, let alone public property?[:0]
In Indiana you may not legally use bait for deer/turkeys. Bait is corn, oats, soybeans, mineral, ECT. Anything that is not allready there. It is OK to hunt over food plot, or over a field of crops, BUT heaven forbid you actually feed the damn wildlife!
CO's have MORE authority than any other branch of LE. Just wait, bet on them "inspecting" your freezer next. You will now be targeted for some time. CO's here are the same way. I am NOW a target because the local CO's don't like people hunting on crop depridation permits. I have gotton top numbers off the parcels I was permited on, so, in turn, that painted a huge bullseye on my back.
Myself, I put out loose mineral and calcium for the deer. I belive it helps improve herd health ( makes sense right?). The CO's wouldn't see it that way however. I don't hunt over top of the suppliments, but the definitions are VERY loose in the gamebook. "AN area is considered baited". Area? How big an "area"? The whole section I hunt? Or 100 yards square around it? No, it is left to CO's to interprit that.
As a side thought, how WOULD those CO's know if you WERE using feed, unless they TRESPASSED to see it? OH, silly me, CO's don't trespass, since they have the power of "law" behind them.[:o)][:I][B)]
Good luck on your impending court troubles. Hope it all works out well for you.
Here is another kicker.....I have a camper up on blocks in the center of my land. The ECO said he went looking for me and even opened the door of my camper to see if I was in there......
It was a good thing I was not in there ![B)]
As far as your court date, don't get your hopes up. My experience has shown that the judge and those other government goons all get their paycheck at the same window, and they know it.[V]
Constitution? What Constitution?
They were robots !
A sign of things to come?
Oh wait.....that time is here NOW. [:(!]
Sorry to hear of your encounter with the JBT's. Like you, not that I expect a judge to be any different, but I hope your court appearance goes better.
[:o)]
Hope it doesn't cause you too much of an issue.
Stay calm, and make your case.
I understand about temper, and being younger.
I am still amazed to this day that I have never been arrested.
One good thing about getting a bit older I guess.[;)]
One came very close to being shot because he didn't realize we (my friend and I) were off duty cops. He saw we had weapons under our coats and he was inching back to try and get to his gun in his vehicle after he had litterly pushed us around and called us every name in the book when we enlightened him as to the consequences if he pointed a gun at us.!![xx(]
it`s illegal to feed up ducks here too...i told the wildlife rangers when they tried to book me for doing it that i was`nt feeding ducks...i was feeding swans!..they could`nt prove otherwise so they had to walk off.
unless they actually caught you shooting deer over the bait, if you tell the judge the goat story you might get away with it for lack of evidence...
good luck, and don`t forget to tell us what happens.
sometimes the law sucks!..if the deer are on your property and you want to bait them, it should be your buisness!
"Uhh I married his (my hunting partners) niece 3 years ago."
He made me open my trunk, looked in the car, under the seats. And then he went and confiscated the deer we had in the barn. He asked me for help getting it off the meat hooks-I told him I had a bad back. Was hoping the meat hook would fall off the rafter and hit him in his head.
There are places where they would confiscate your gun and property for this illegal action. I am not saying that such actions are necessarly right or wrong, but most of the mistakes I got caught at, I had to pay the penalty.
id say your lucky for not getting into deeper snit. i believe the game wardens have more power/authority then the local pd. and can do these searches on just a tip[xx(] uve heard of people loosing not only the deer but also the firearm used to take it and if cought in the act loosing the vehicle your driveing as well.
salzo
id say your lucky for not getting into deeper snit. i believe the game wardens have more power/authority then the local pd. and can do these searches on just a tip[xx(] uve heard of people loosing not only the deer but also the firearm used to take it and if cought in the act loosing the vehicle your driveing as well.
Josh- I know it could have been worse. A friend of mine had his rifle confiscated when he was busted by a warden for walking through a "safety zone" with a loaded rifle. He was on public hunting land, and a strip about twenty yards wide, which also happend to be a trail, was within a couple hundred yads of a house-law says within two hundred yards of a house is a safety zone, hence, he was busted for walking on the trail. Later it was realized that the trail was like a "speed trap" on a highway. Many hunters would walk the trail, not realizing it was a safety zone, and the warden would hang out and bust them as they went through. He got his gun back after a long time. Had to go in front of a judge, plead guilty, and his firearm was returned.
Mayby I am missing something here, but you killed a deer without a liscensce and the game warden that caught you was the prick?
There are places where they would confiscate your gun and property for this illegal action. I am not saying that such actions are necessarly right or wrong, but most of the mistakes I got caught at, I had to pay the penalty.
Notwithstanding my illegal activity, the warden was still a prick. I paid the penalty, never complained about it. They got a call that there was a bunch of out of staters running a deer factory-shooting a hundred deer, and processing them. The call was made by an ex girlfriend of one of the people I was hunting uhhhh I mean poaching with. The four of us were all former New Yorkers, and we never let the state of new york know we were no longer residents- we kept buying resident licenses, and because we were out of staters, that was fraud.
It was quite obvious that there was no great deer massacre going on. We had one deer hanging in the barn, we told the warden about it right away. I could understand checking the freezer-but to go rifling through the house, with my eighty year old grandmother with a case of diarreha getting very upset-totally unecessary, and the prick knew it-it was obvious there was no factory.
My actions were wrong, I had no problem with the penalty the law required. But if I was speeding and got pulled over and the cop demanded a body cavity search, I wouldnt say a body cavity search is "OK", because I was speeding.
After about half an hour of this, I unloaded five through my Springfield single, real fast. They were my last five rounds, and I didn't get the squirrel.
Up shows the DWF, Dept. of wildlife, and fisheries. He wants to know where my auto is. Swears I have an illegal, unplugged auto. Nobody can shoot a single that fast, he swears. Makes me wait over half an hour, while he searches. Then he challenges me to do it again. I tell him I can't, I used my last five rounds on that worthless squirrel. He followed me out, to my car. I'd bet he waited hours for me to go back to retrieve that 'auto'.
The thing is, the squirrel was still in that tree, barking at me the whole time. I hate that squirrel, and I bet he outlives me too.
The judge fined me $25.
I guess it could have been much worse.
Case closed !
Was there any points involved?
Here, they assess points against your hunting privileges for certain violations.
Good show, feller.
Yes Highball.....it seems almost unbelieveable. I made my case to the judge, explained everything point by point....I guess the judge feeds the deer also perhaps.....[;)]
You should have told them that you are a member of the NRA and tried to work out a reasonable compromise with them.
[:o)]
ny i'm member of the NRA.. officer yea your point being
there are two places i feed deers southern ohio dog and game
preserve.. and hueston woods. SODG the owner don't mind
he does if the fools feed them cookies WTH
hueston their kept in a pen
Are we to assume that you are an officer in the NRA ?
Your illiterate, disjointed post leads one to strongly believe so, of course...but perhaps that isn't what you meant.
a member of the NRA the officer woulda said your point being
to get out of his predictamint. if i was NY i woulda been
here's my NRA card see life member
No points of any kind were given. I have never heard of points given in NY for hunting. NY gives points on your drivers license for moving violations.
Good deal NY!!
I hate to rain on your parade but IF it's on your record even without points and IF it happens again...
I found a pile of poached deer, and ALL the meat was there, but a few heads missing. I called the local warden because of the wasted meat, not the poaching. Never heard from them despite my messages I left since they weren't there to answer a call for a few days. Sad how they were probably out harassing easier "targets."
I guess the sarcasm of my original comment was lost. Wouldn't trying to compromise in that situation be the appropriate NRA sanctioned approach?
Yeah, I got it. If it weren't true it might evoke a chuckle.
There are restrictions regarding wildlife--simply because they ARE wildlife. No poison, artificial light, aircraft, road hunting, shooting from or across a public road, etc.
Let's consider the public road issue. You were on your land right? Most roads there would not be public. So were you on YOUR land when the ECO's visited you. If posted (usually even if not posted) their presence would constitute trespassing. If they didn't see a violation they need a warrant. I would post my land and even string a single strand of barbed or unbarbed wire around it tree to tree. Hand the NO TRESPASSING signs on the wire.
Unloading the side arm is reasonable. Safe for you and them. I always cuffed people put in my cruiser. Colorado law regarding concealed weapons (shall issue law) lets cops unload or take possession (temporary). A cop could not go through your car but wildlife conservation officers (WCO) could check your car during hunting season (if big game season the interior would be off limits including the glove box). They also can check to see if there is a chambered round during the season. You can refuse to unlock it but some tow the car and pretend to "inventory" the contents.
I have been stopped, jumped out of the car with lic, reg, and insurance and stood by the door with hands in plain sight. They order you to get into the car but that is illegal in CO. Easiest thing is to have a door key in your wallet or shoe and calmly explain that you left the keys in the ignition and accidently locked the doors.
I wish there was a coating that could be activated electrically to turn black--I know they just want to do an eye search (plain sight doctrine) for contraband. Face it--I did it for years.
There is a whole method to present your case in court. Too long to detail here. The ECO's just need probable cause to issue a ticket. It is only an allegation. Once you got it (or before) tell them to get off your land and direct them the route to take. You know that notes are made on the back--tell them to note that they were on your land uninvited. (Good luck--but get the notes at trial--they have to give them to you--its called "dicovery".
I have had to work with fellow officers that were referred to as "Adam Henrys" over the radio. Substitute the first letter of each word for how you REALLY felt about these guys. Heck, I gave people verbal warnings for speeding 10 over. Why? Because I found myself on "preventative patrol" (no particular place to go) doing 10 over on the same street. Ticked off supervisors but got them to make me a detective after 5 years.
Call your Dept of Wildlife or whatever they call the outfit issuing licenses. Get a supervisor. Ask what authority they have to search vehicles, private property, and how it squares with the US Constitution and the constitution of NY. Write that name down and his title. If you keep getting singled out (please stop the feeding) and you get a ticket have the court subpoena the supervisor. (In CO you could tape the call but maybe not NY unless you told him)
BTW If in a city and some counties the government already controls (or makes unlawful) where you relieve yourself. In CO you can't even save the rainwater from your roof for private use. It contributes to water rights owned by someone downstream or out of state. Crazy! Tyr