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H R 45
tavarish
Member Posts: 127 ✭✭
HAS ANYONE READ THIS YET? THIS BILL WOULD GIVE THE A.G.THE POWER TO BAN ANY GUN OF HIS CHOOSING. COME ON GOOGLE IT.
Comments
Why even bother to run it through Congress? The people have spoken. Complete registration, complete licensing, complete control, just as SCROTUS outlined in Heller. This is the inevitable result of the support of reasonable gun laws by reasonable gun owners and thier preferred 2nd Amendment Rights lobbying group. This is the inevitable result of the 'Compromise First' attitude that many on this board have supported. This is the inevitable result of accepting as reality that a right is fungible, and thus meaningless.
All you 2nd Amendment advocates who applauded Heller, and who accept the reasonable infringements on the 2nd by government have no beef, right? After all, if government needs to protect us from unlawfully owned guns, we must give them the proper tools with which to do the job.
This, if it passes, will be when civil disobedience (at the very least) will be required of all gun owners in this country. Force them to come to your door. Force them to get a warrant. Force them to 'describe the things to be seized' as stated in the 4th Amendment. Even if you choose to not physically resist the theft of your firearms, make damn sure you do not go quietly into servitude.
Brad Steele
This, if it passes, will be when civil disobedience (at the very least) will be required of all gun owners in this country. Force them to come to your door. Force them to get a warrant. Force them to 'describe the things to be seized' as stated in the 4th Amendment. Even if you choose to not physically resist the theft of your firearms, make damn sure you do not go quietly into servitude.
More times than not they will bust into your home at 4:00 AM, stick the barrel of an MP-5 in your face and your families face demanding to know where you have hidden the contraband. There is no defense to that type of enforcement.
Only LEO's, understanding that gun laws are illegal and refusing to enforce them could stop it. Please don't count on the younger crowd of brain washed pigs to understand the difference.
More times than not they will bust into your home at 4:00 AM, stick the barrel of an MP-5 in your face and your families face demanding to know where you have hidden the contraband. There is no defense to that type of enforcement.
Only LEO's, understanding that gun laws are illegal and refusing to enforce them could stop it. Please don't count on the younger crowd of brain washed pigs to understand the difference.
That is correct, bpost. The point is to force action.
Civil disobedience, forcing action by not succumbing to the ridiculous and unconstitutional permitting process and by not turning in your weapons voluntarily when you refuse to get your papers. If even 10% of gun owners take this stand it will be a law enforcement nightmare, with or without any armed resistance. If half of us peacefully resist, it will be a non-starter.
Brad Steele
Make NO mistake, their intentions could NOT be more clear.
Direct from the mouth of Senator Feinstein, concerning the "last" assault rifle ban.
And I QUOTE
"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States
for an out-right ban,
picking up every one of them.....
Mr. and Mrs. America,
turn 'em ALL in......
I would have done it."
************
Do you think she was talking about "just" assault rifles?
Will she will have the votes.........this time?
decide what your intentions are right now![}:)]
Why? what? again? I am pretty sure most have decided a long time ago.
The Constitution grants no such authority, hence, I do not recognize it.
I am a citizen; not a subject. I have neither lived the life of a slave, nor do I intend to.
Bans, whether they be past, present, or future, are not heeded by 100% of the populace.
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
decide what your intentions are right now![}:)]
Why? what? again? I am pretty sure most have decided a long time ago.
Count me in. [:(!]
BTW, taverish, thanks for the post.
That each individual has the right to keep and bear arms. It is the only thing keeping this once great country from becoming a tyrannical/socialistic state.
With my last breath I will defend her.
Lance
Any guesses on what the "NRA" will have to water it down to, to get the sheep to accept it?
Registration of "Black Rifles" along with a sales ban.
No confiscation yet....that will be attempted further down the line
quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
Any guesses on what the "NRA" will have to water it down to, to get the sheep to accept it?
Registration of "Black Rifles" along with a sales ban.
No confiscation yet....that will be attempted further down the line
This seems to be the most plausible prediction for the initial step in the newest assault on the Republic.
Hhehehhehh;;;I love a good joke...hehehehhhhhhh
What do you think ought to be the penalties for passing such a bill ?
Per the Founders, so are the penalties for engaging in tyrannical practices.
quote:It looks like a bad mix of Illinois' FOID requirements and New Jersey's system and the penalties for violation are extreme.
What do you think ought to be the penalties for passing such a bill ?
What do I think? Hanging would be the appropriate penalty but the best we can probably hope for is to make those who support it unemployed.
AT WHAT POINT do you decide that politicians just MERELY proposing some 'law' indicate to you there no longer is any possibilty of retaining the smallest hope of freedom ?
That phoning,writting, picketing, or other forms of folly are just wasted effort ?
At what point for you, Rawhide, does 'passing laws' become a criminal offense against America ?
AT WHAT POINT do you decide that politicians just MERELY proposing some 'law' indicate to you there no longer is any possibilty of retaining the smallest hope of freedom ?
That phoning,writting, picketing, or other forms of folly are just wasted effort ?
Highball,
I think you misunderstand me. You and I are generally in agreement and on the same team. My position is fundamentally the same as yours. My recommendation here is to use any possibility of correcting the wrongs through the system before resorting to an option from which there is no turning back. I can assure you that I have my own contingency plans that you would not disapprove of but I see no reason to broadcast them in a forum the opposition is monitoring.
I would, however, remind you that those same efforts you disdain, i.e. picketing, letter writing, propaganda, etc. are the tools the other side has used to gain their current position. For the past 40 years being shrill, loud, and using phony indignation has served those who would restrict our rights well. We need to become much more vocal to counteract them.
I only recommend using all other means FIRST because the problem with falling on your sword is that you can only do it once.
I have not the sligest intention of falling upon my sword. Trust me about this.
I have not the slightest intention of falling upon my sword. Trust me about this.
The problem we face is simple ; Every time some child is killed with a weapon, we lose. Appeals to emotions are winners, when we live in an emasculated environment.
Every time there is a school shooting, a family wiped out, a daddy murdered by thugs with guns...we lose.
It is difficult if not impossible to call out to the manhood left in most `citizens' ..for they have been taught from the cradle that fighting is ALWAYS wrong...unless ordered to by government or codified by a badge.
When we speak about the Second as the bulwark against tyranny, the average `citizen' reacts with horror ..branding the speaker as a terrorist.
I have spent my time in the trenches of the `system' playing the game. I have lost every round. Even when we succeeded in placing what appeared to be a decent, honorable man in office...it only lasted a couple years before he stumped for mccain.
For me, the political game is over. We have lost in that arena.
The Court system is over. We lost Heller. We have lost in that arena.
We have lost the hearts and minds of our fellow `citizens';
We have lost in the jury box, simply because most refuse to educate themselves of their RESPONSIBILITES as a Juror...that they are there to judge the LAW as much as the law-breaker.
There is the Ballot Box, the Jury Box...and the Cartridge Box. Those three boxes are the legs upon which freedom rests.
Two of them are hopelessly corrupted.
quote: with falling on your sword is that you can only do it once.
I have not the sligest intention of falling upon my sword. Trust me about this.
I have not the slightest intention of falling upon my sword. Trust me about this.
The problem we face is simple ; Every time some child is killed with a weapon, we lose. Appeals to emotions are winners, when we live in an emasculated environment.
Every time there is a school shooting, a family wiped out, a daddy murdered by thugs with guns...we lose.
It is difficult if not impossible to call out to the manhood left in most `citizens' ..for they have been taught from the cradle that fighting is ALWAYS wrong...unless ordered to by government or codified by a badge.
When we speak about the Second as the bulwark against tyranny, the average `citizen' reacts with horror ..branding the speaker as a terrorist.
I have spent my time in the trenches of the `system' playing the game. I have lost every round. Even when we succeeded in placing what appeared to be a decent, honorable man in office...it only lasted a couple years before he stumped for mccain.
For me, the political game is over. We have lost in that arena.
The Court system is over. We lost Heller. We have lost in that arena.
We have lost the hearts and minds of our fellow `citizens';
We have lost in the jury box, simply because most refuse to educate themselves of their RESPONSIBILITES as a Juror...that they are there to judge the LAW as much as the law-breaker.
There is the Ballot Box, the Jury Box...and the Cartridge Box. Those three boxes are the legs upon which freedom rests.
Two of them are hopelessly corrupted.
I can't disagree.
I got an e-mail answer back from my US Representive regarding my question about whether he supports H.R. 45 and this nonsense about banning guns for the elderly. It was a canned answer about the importance of the stimulus package.
Do you ever get the feeling that they DID NOT EVEN READ your email??? [:(!][:(!][:(!]
quote:Originally posted by rawhide54
I got an e-mail answer back from my US Representive regarding my question about whether he supports H.R. 45 and this nonsense about banning guns for the elderly. It was a canned answer about the importance of the stimulus package.
Do you ever get the feeling that they DID NOT EVEN READ your email??? [:(!][:(!][:(!]
I learned along time ago unless you get 'face' time with them in person, or on the phone you have little to no impact. Even face time is mostly a waste because they will tell you 'what you want to hear'![:(!]
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by rawhide54
I got an e-mail answer back from my US Representive regarding my question about whether he supports H.R. 45 and this nonsense about banning guns for the elderly. It was a canned answer about the importance of the stimulus package.
Do you ever get the feeling that they DID NOT EVEN READ your email??? [:(!][:(!][:(!]
I learned along time ago unless you get 'face' time with them in person, or on the phone you have little to no impact. Even face time is mostly a waste because they will tell you 'what you want to hear'![:(!]
In red above.
If GOA or the SAF had 42 millions members, (only half of the 84 million gun owners in America) I predict that if a representative from GOA or SAF wanted "face time" with witch Pelosi, that representative would get that face time and Pelosi would listen to him/her.
Of course for that to happen, we gun owners would have to work together so it is nothing but a pipe dream.
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by rawhide54
I got an e-mail answer back from my US Representive regarding my question about whether he supports H.R. 45 and this nonsense about banning guns for the elderly. It was a canned answer about the importance of the stimulus package.
Do you ever get the feeling that they DID NOT EVEN READ your email??? [:(!][:(!][:(!]
I learned along time ago unless you get 'face' time with them in person, or on the phone you have little to no impact. Even face time is mostly a waste because they will tell you 'what you want to hear'![:(!]
In red above.
If GOA or the SAF had 42 millions members, (only half of the 84 million gun owners in America) I predict that if a representative from GOA or SAF wanted "face time" with witch Pelosi, that representative would get that face time and Pelosi would listen to him/her.
Of course for that to happen, we gun owners would have to work together so it is nothing but a pipe dream.
Precisely why we do need to start working together better. We need the politicians to fear our vote as much as they seem to fear our guns. Right now they fear the votes of the "I want a government handout" crowd more than they fear our votes and that needs to change. We're the ones paying the taxes so we need to get organized so we'll be heard.
Four words that divide us.
Some of us believe in them...some do not.
I no longer rub shoulders with those that do not believe in them. Nor will I send money, nor will I vote for them.
Contempt is the only thing they will get from me.
All of you out there that have been talking bad about California people and saying we don't do anything to protect our rights, looks like the same people are after your rights too.
It is not about if these new laws or programs will work to reduce crime, they don't care about that. It is all about control. Same as this stimulus bill crap. It is all about control. The more people they can put on the government programs the less fight thye will have whne they want to tax us more.
Get out and do something. California is pretty much a lost cause. We have too many liberals and us conservatives have a tough fight.
I have written many letters to my local politicians. When talking about gun control I always ask them if the gang members that are killing each other and shooting little kids have registered guns.
Do they also have CCW's because they all are packing?
They caught a 15 year old with an AK-47 stuck in his sweat pants with a 30 round clip in the middle of Oakland, California on a school day.
How many things are wrong with that one.
Bring up the existing laws that are being broken when you talk to these people. We don't need more laws just better enforcement.
We have a tough fight ahead.
We all need to get involved and call your Congress person and make sure they vote against this horrible bill.
All of you out there that have been talking bad about California people and saying we don't do anything to protect our rights, looks like the same people are after your rights too.
It is not about if these new laws or programs will work to reduce crime, they don't care about that. It is all about control. Same as this stimulus bill crap. It is all about control. The more people they can put on the government programs the less fight thye will have whne they want to tax us more.
Get out and do something. California is pretty much a lost cause. We have too many liberals and us conservatives have a tough fight.
I have written many letters to my local politicians. When talking about gun control I always ask them if the gang members that are killing each other and shooting little kids have registered guns.
Do they also have CCW's because they all are packing?
They caught a 15 year old with an AK-47 stuck in his sweat pants with a 30 round clip in the middle of Oakland, California on a school day.
How many things are wrong with that one.
Bring up the existing laws that are being broken when you talk to these people. We don't need more laws just better enforcement.
We have a tough fight ahead.
The only thing I see wrong with that is a "clip" goes in a girls hair and a MAG goes in a gun.
Also your statment about not needing MORE laws WTH so your OK with the ones we have? You sir are a sheep. How about "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" bring that up to your local politicians.
The Court system is over. We lost Heller. We have lost in that arena.
We have lost the hearts and minds of our fellow `citizens';
We have lost in the jury box, simply because most refuse to educate themselves of their RESPONSIBILITES as a Juror...that they are there to judge the LAW as much as the law-breaker.
There is the Ballot Box, the Jury Box...and the Cartridge Box. Those three boxes are the legs upon which freedom rests.
Two of them are hopelessly corrupted.
Highball, well said
quote:
Of course for that to happen, we gun owners would have to work together so it is nothing but a pipe dream.
Precisely why we do need to start working together better. We need the politicians to fear our vote as much as they seem to fear our guns. Right now they fear the votes of the "I want a government handout" crowd more than they fear our votes and that needs to change. We're the ones paying the taxes so we need to get organized so we'll be heard.
We all need to get involved and call your Congress person and make sure they vote against this horrible bill.
All of you out there that have been talking bad about California people and saying we don't do anything to protect our rights, looks like the same people are after your rights too.
It is not about if these new laws or programs will work to reduce crime, they don't care about that. It is all about control. Same as this stimulus bill crap. It is all about control. The more people they can put on the government programs the less fight thye will have whne they want to tax us more.
Get out and do something. California is pretty much a lost cause. We have too many liberals and us conservatives have a tough fight.
I have written many letters to my local politicians. When talking about gun control I always ask them if the gang members that are killing each other and shooting little kids have registered guns.
quote:
I don't post often, not much of a conversationist, but I read here most everyday and think on the matter constantly.
As long as anyone is willing to accept any restrictions on RKBA there will be no meaningfull progress or cooperation in restoring of our CONSTITUTIONAL and GOD givin rights. If you are willing to accept a few restrictions ie. background checks, mag limits, registration etc. now, what will you agree to in the future??
The only position IMO that is defendable and right is NONE, not now, not ever.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Canary * please keep up the good work, there alot of us who dont post much but work at educating friends and family at all times, who agree with and support your efforts
Also your statment about not needing MORE laws WTH so your OK with the ones we have? You sir are a sheep. How about "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" bring that up to your local politicians.
[/quote]
Deadred707 that is funny.
What you got out of that was the slip up with the clip and mag?
You missed the point.
The point is I am not happy with our current laws and write at least one letter a week to one of the idiots this state has elected.
There are very few people that actually write or call their congress person. I have called 4 times and written 5 different people so far this week.
We need to not piss each other off too much and band together to fight the gun control lobbysts and stop this huge waste of money on the stimulus package.
There are very few people that actually write or call their congress person. I have called 4 times and written 5 different people so far this week.
Talk about missing a point...
There are very few people that actually write or call their congress person. I have called 4 times and written 5 different people so far this week.
I purely love one of the definitions of insanity ;
Doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over...expecting different results.
So in the CCRKBA spam mail I received on HR45, it said 2 years in, registration would be retroactive and that every gun in existence would have to be registered. I'm no lawyer, is this true?
All i can tell them is "good luck with that!"[;)]
This is straight from the text of HR45:
(c) Elimination of Prohibition on Establishment of System of Registration- Section 926(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking the second sentence.
It is quite clear what they are up to, and it's no secret what their ultimate goal is.[:(!]
This is Sec. 202 Firearm Records (in it's entirety from HR45)
SEC. 202. FIREARM RECORDS.
(a) Submission of Sale or Transfer Reports- Not later than 14 days after the date on which the transfer of qualifying firearm is processed by a licensed dealer under section 922(bb) of title 18, United States Code (as added by section 201 of this Act), the licensed dealer shall submit to the Attorney General (or, in the case of a licensed dealer located in a State that has a State firearm licensing and record of sale system certified under section 602 of this Act, to the head of the State agency that administers that system) a report of that transfer, which shall include information relating to--
(1) the manufacturer of the firearm;
(2) the model name or number of the firearm;
(3) the serial number of the firearm;
(4) the date on which the firearm was received by the transferee;
(5) the number of a valid firearm license issued to the transferee under title I of this Act; and
(6) the name and address of the individual who transferred the firearm to the transferee.
(b) Federal Record of Sale System- Not later than 9 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Attorney General shall establish and maintain a Federal record of sale system, which shall include the information included in each report submitted to the Attorney General under subsection (a).
(c) Elimination of Prohibition on Establishment of System of Registration- Section 926(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking the second sentence.
#1 in my sig[}:)]