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I need help with gun debate
jimkane
Member Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hello all. Here at my college in my dorm we have been having an on going discussion about gun control. Somebody made the assertion that guns are not useful for self defence. I know this is bull but I need some facts to back it up. could I get links stats ect that whould help me in my arguement? Some of these people I am dealing with are no the brightest. They don't understand the issues they just know what the liberal media has portrade. Thanks guys.
Live for Peace, prepare for War
Live for Peace, prepare for War
Comments
a. Protect the rights of Bill.
b. Protect Americans from the British.
C. Protect Americans from their own government.
Guess what? Only the American government is a danger to your rights.
Also note: Everyone says we live in a democracy. This country is a Republic. "The Republic for which it stands" remember? People vote for representatives to vote for them.
To get these rights, people died. If you give up your rights, someone will have to die to get them back for you. Don't give up the lives of your descendants easily.
"Sometimes the people have to give up some individual rights for the safety of society."
-Bill Clinton(MTV interview)
[url][/url]www.fightthebias.com
That should give you a pretty good start. In any sense, I suggest they also read in the Bible, Luke 22:36. It tells us just how important Jesus instructed us about being armed. Is Jesus a pacifist?? No, He is not. To assume that He is makes a mockery of the Will of God and discredits the Spiritual War. I'll warn you in advance, though. Liberals are, by nature, of this earth, and are typically godless.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.
-Gunphreak
Edited by - gunphreak on 10/29/2002 01:22:28
England...currently all citizens are prohibited from private gun ownership- only criminals have guns now and look at their crime rates skyrocketing.
Germany now has more new gun laws that took effect September 30,2002- not even a U.S. military member who get's sent over to Germany is allowed to own a firearm. If I was a Al Quaeda member I would take note and storm their unsecured housing complexes knowing their wasn't a sole to shoot back.
Ruby Ridge, The FBI or whas it the BATF heard a man was selling shotguns with the barrels sawed off but had no proof. They bought a house next to him and put two agents in their pretending to be a family and over what a year tried to get the man to sell a sawed off shotgun...repeatedly...asking and asking and asking until I guess the sold him a shotgun. Then the Federal Agents stormed the house with a swat team first shooting the man's son in his back yard who had a .22 shooting at pop cans. Then they shot his dog. Then the mother walked out the front door with a baby in her arms and got popped right between the eyes by a Federal Sniper. The guy shot back hitting two agents finally surendered. The United States Government gave him something like 2 million for killing his family. Their evidence was not acceptable into a court of law against him...entrapment.
Go ahead U.S., give up your gun laws...fall into a third world country status and be something like Columbia. Where drug lords rule as they have the weapons and money and do as they wish..Kidnapping, rape, extortion.....with no one able to do a thing about it. Not even the good 'ole US of A can fix that country.
Switzerland, I believe all residents are required by law to possess in each home a fully automatic weapon...Look at their crime rates..
World War II it was common for a U.S. soldier to have his own sidearm..a U.S. soldier now is prohibited from carrying any weapon unless his commander authorizes it, a sacrificial pawn...not a U.S. citizen in the military with the Rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Look at the U.S.S. Liberty, a U.S. naval spyship with no weapons operating off the coast of Israel during the six day war of 1967 monitoring Israel's actions. The Israel military fired over 3,000 missiles, torpedoes, bullets, and bombs at the ship to prevent what holocausts they did to the Muslim world from reaching the worlds population. The Liberty got out one SOS before the Israely boarding party of 5 helicopters with men armed with explosives to scuttle the ship and kill all Americans aboard...but were pulled off at the last second because the ship did get out a SOS. A nearby U.S. aircraft carrier dispatched fighters to defend the ship but were recalled back by the President of the United States for unknown reasons. 170 wounded, @40-50 dead. The ship was full of holes, fires all over, and the flag was still flying for all to see. The ship and crew had to limp home bleeding, dyeing, forgotten by the people they were supposed to be defending. Accident my white behind.
Saudi Arabia currently....all U.S. military members are flown in on a contracted air line, no big military air lift to move troops back and forth to the battle ground anymore ya know. The civilian aircrafts have no weapons, no defensive measures against surface to air missiles. They only fly in at night and vear left and right like a roller coaster ride with all lights off. People in the Saudi desert frequently fire small arms at it trying to take it down and recently U.S. surface to air missiles that were given to Afghanistan to fight off the Russians were found just outside the U.S. airbase in Saudi burried in the desert..but guess what, some have been fired. Guess they missed. It's like the U.S. Government WANTS someone to kill Americans abroad and is waiving them around defenseless like a shoot me please sign so we could justify further military action....What the heck is the world coming to.
California and it's new gun laws and waiting periods and supposedly better system....Think their crime rates have changed? Ever wonder what will happen to California with it's booming suburbia housing complexes that is filling the state with more people than they can feed? Well when the oil runs dry the people have two choices..One leave and ravage nearby states like locusts or eat each other. What do you think will happen to them in 50 years?
*If there is one gun for every 7 people in the world, I'm saving alot of people money*
What it comes down to though is that: the Second Amendment guarantees our right to keep and bear arms, whether they're useful (in anybody else's opinion but your own!) for defensive purpose or not. If that right is circumvented, believe me (and many other much more in-touch folks) it won't be the first to go.
If those guys don't want to protect themselves and want to rely on the police to scrape their dead families off the floor because they have been emasculated to the point of helplessness, they are free to do so. Just don't get in the way of those of us who would like to protect our families in the way we see most fit.
The definition of an "expert":An "X" is an unknown quantity and a "spurt" is a drip under pressure.
For anyone who thinks it is morally superior to allow another person to rob, rape or kill them or their family, since when does it become morally superior not to defend your family?? If they will not defend their family, what good are they??? To allow someone else to play God and deprive one of their own life is in total contempt of the Gift of God. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to not fight back, and serves as a perfect deterrence to these forms of criminal activity. To allow someone else to prey on you, when you have an alternative to preserve your life and defend your family is both stupid, and cowardly.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.
-Gunphreak
Remember the following:
Liberal vs conservative decision-making
The Difference Between The Liberal and Conservative "Debate" Over The War On Terrorism:
Question:
You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two
small children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes
around the corner and is running at you while screaming obscenities. In your
hand is a .357 Magnum and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds
before he reaches you and your family. What do you do?
Liberal Answer:
Well, that's not enough information to answer the question! Does the man
look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that is inspiring
him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the
kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of
his hand? What does the law say about this situation? Is it possible he'd
be happy with just killing me? Does he definitely want to kill me or would
he just be content to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and hold on,
could my family get away while he was stabbing me? This is all so confusing!
I need to go on a listening tour debate with some friends for a few days to try to come to a
conclusion.
Conservative Answer:
You immediately waste this roach...Reload...then go about your business.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.
-Gunphreak
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PURE BS. Germany had the 1928 Gun Control Act, and it was ammended in 1938 as I recall. It did NOT prohibit gun ownership and in fact shooting flourished in nazi germany in the form of "hunt clubs" and "Schuetzen Clubs" in bars etc. There was NO confiscation of guns as such from anyone. All the law said is that firearms and ammunition could not be owned by "undesireables/jews." That ONE word
"undesireables" was the focus of the law. They just decided who was "undesireable" and of course Jews.. But they NEVER went out confiscating just guns. They took PROPERTY and of course guns were part of that definition. They came in the door often on jews and OTHERS and kicked them into the street and kept the PROPERTY. Europe as a rule was not a "gun culture" as we know it. Few hunted and guns were not a common sport except the Schuetzen clubs which were very popular much like darts are now in our bars. Even if the govt had confiscated no guns, it wouldn't have mattered much. German homes for the most part held few weapons of any concern to the military. Mostly shotguns, a few rare rifles and fewer handguns. Before the war Europe was rather crime free and had been for decades save a few rare spots.
Hitler also didn't make a speech about a gun free germany. That is a total urban legend as well. Gun owners get a bad rep by spreading BAD information.
In 1938, five years after taking power, the Nazis enhanced the 1928 law. The Nazi Weapons Law introduced handgun control. Firearms ownership was restricted to Nazi party members and other "reliable" people. This is VERY similar to laws like the NY Sullivan law and MAY issue states.
The 1938 Nazi law barred Jews from businesses involving firearms. On November 10. 1938 -- one day after the Nazi party terror squads (the SS) savaged thousands of Jews, synagogues and Jewish businesses throughout Germany -- new regulations under the Weapons Law specifically barred Jews from owning any weapons, even clubs or knives. The law was that narrowly applied.
Here is the TOTAL law. Not much to it. But well written to be so selective. next time you think of the German gun thing, look at a copy of the actual LAW. Light reading. The focus is of course the jews..NOT the general population. There was little or no need to regulate the everyday type non=jewish german.
11 November 1938
With a basis in ?31 of the Weapons Law of 18 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p.265), Article III of the Law on the Reunification of Austria with Germany of 13 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 237), and ?9 of the F?hrer and Chancellor's decree on the administration of the Sudeten-German districts of 1 October 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p 1331) are the following ordered:
?1 Jews (?5 of the First Regulations of the German Citizenship Law of 14 November 1935, Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 1333) are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons.Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.
?2 Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew's possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation.
?3 The Minister of the Interior may make exceptions to the Prohibition in ?1 for Jews who are foreign nationals. He can entrust other authorities with this power.
?4 Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions of ?1 will be punished with imprisonment and a fine. In especially severe cases of deliberate violations, the punishment is imprisonment in a penitentiary for up to five years.
?5 For the implementation of this regulation, the Minister of the Interior waives the necessary legal and administrative provisions.
?6 This regulation is valid in the state of Austria and in the Sudeten-German districts.
Berlin, 11 November 1938
Minister of the Interior
Frick
Edited by - Darrell on 12/01/2002 06:04:28
Gun Control on all fields are BS.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.
-Gunphreak
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I ONLY addressed the issue in Nazi Germany. Somehow you got to Russia etc. We have in this country done something few others have
done. We do not allow ownership by felons and those with a protective order in place against them where NO crime has been done.
One has to decide if disarming felons is always a good thing. It disarms an entire group of people, millions in fact. But Germany used the ability to disarm a particular group (undesireables) to it's advantage kind of. Even if Jewish firearms were left in place few would have used them against the German military. Few of the weapons would have had much or any value against any military. In fact many of the jews PAID CASH for their train rides to the camps being told it was only a "work" area or "settlement" area. It took some time for the horror stories to get out and then many did not believe them.
If you read Kaplan's book on the Warsaw Ghetto you soon realize the guns the defenders had only delayed the end result. As with any fighting unit the issue was resupply of exhausted ammunition etc.
The secure perimeter of the ghetto made such resupply all but impossible. The civilian type weapons played little part in the defense. It was the captured military style weapons that did the most damage and the Germans provided that from dead and wounded soldiers but not enough. The German troops used were not elite units but just the opposite and had a history of discipline issues and going to Warsaw was almost a punishment and they fought accordingly.
The German anti gun effort was neither effective or all that necessary. Taking the Jews money/property was far more effective. In fact if your family was starving to death would you trade a gun for food or cash to buy food? Most would.
You seem to be "UP" on Nazi Germany gun laws. I don't know what that has to do with explaining gun control and whether or not guns are useful for self defense(in a college dorm). You may be able to refresh my memory on a "Nazi" related gun subject.
Twenty or so years ago I read an article in Guns and Ammo. The article was very well written and, a foreward stated, it was an excerpt from a book published before the second world war. It was a treatise concerning the logic of gun control in general. I found very little that I could disagree with. It was very disconcerting, being a gun nut from early childhood.
The author finally dropped the other shoe. This excerpt was taken from a book called Mein Kampf(did I spell it right?) and written by a fellow named Hitler.
I think I will get a copy from the library and see if I can find this excerpt first hand. It may be that I've overlooked the logic in gun control. This book may be a good place to be reeducated(tongue in cheek). You may know where, in the book, it's located. Any information will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bud
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What Hitler believed and what he could do was not the same. He believed in total CONTROL of everything. It wasn't just about guns. It was about the press, travel, distribution etc. That logic is with all government types in one form or another. Those that control a dorm want CONTROL. We may need some but some take it to great lengths like what shoes you can wear (to protect floors) to what size stereo you can have. Guns are only a natural "no brainer" for those types. Hitler in his madness was some interesting logic as all nut cases do. As a nation we think we can do better with LESS control. To which I agree. But when you go to a college for example you are stuck with what you walk into for the most part.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.
-Gunphreak
Didn't Christ also instruct us to heal the sick, eschew possession, and pay our taxes?
quote:We have in this country done something few others have
done. We do not allow ownership by felons and those with a protective order in place against them where NO crime has been done.
One has to decide if disarming felons is always a good thing. It disarms an entire group of people, millions in fact.
This is an interesting point. Is it in keeping with the ideals of civil liberty to disarm non-criminals? What's more, who is a "felon" seems to be expanding every day. What about a guy who has a quarter pound of weed stashed, and occasionally turns his friends on to a reef or 2, then the local heat/"drug war soldier" gets wind of this. That's a felony, but why should such a person be one, with all the deprivation of rights accompaning that? What's more, in respect to gun rights, once you are a felon, you are always a felon, as BATF does not restore gun rights, unlike any other civil rights.
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It can include crimes like bouncing checks and DUI or not paying child support in some cases. Many traffic offenses can become a felony. There has been discussion of prohibting firearms ownership by anyone with ANY drug or drug related offenses regardless of classification. That would wipe out another group of MILLIONS.
Some want mandatory training/testing. 12% of our general population can't read enough to pass such a test. Wipe out a few more million.
A student signed himself in to a treatment program for alcholism. He spent the 30 days and has been dry 20 yrs. He was smart enough to see he had a problem and was very proactive in addressing it. Well, the state contends he was "committed" for a form of "mental illness" and thus prohibited from owning firearms and they won't budge. Such policy would not make a person want to get treatment when it is needed. I think the man should get a hero button.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.
-Gunphreak
1. everyone has to serve in the military at some time
2. everyone own a gun in thier home
you don't rob and kill someone that has a gun.
1. everyone has to serve in the military at some time
2. everyone own a gun in thier home
you don't rob and kill someone that has a gun.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
BS and then some. They just had a mass shooting incident at their capital. Crime is going NUTS in Switzerland like most of the world
and there is a strong and probably winable crowd demanding more gun
control and they seem to be getting it. Thanks for the post anyway.
On average, about 300 murders occur there per year. There are 7 million people. The math shows a homicide rate of less than a single percent. So, that means a mass killing was probably pulled off by a complete idiot, and there have been no such gun control measures called to the attention of the people as a result.... not that it would matter, anyways. The Swiss will always be armed to the teeth.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.
-Gunphreak
On the Switzerland note... no one serves in the military. All able bodied males are issued a uniform and select fire automatic rifle. Their army is nothing more than an organized militia.
Yes, much like our National Guard, except EVERYONE (male) is in it. All young men at 20 years of age, do 4 months of basic training. Then, 3 week sessions 8 times over the next 12 years, plus short drills. Then more training, but slower, until they are 45. 55 for officers. A total of a bit more than 2 years active duty over 25 years of life. Schedules of mobilization are prominently posted in places like train and bus stops. It's not at all unusual to see men carrying automatic rifles and light machine guns on public transport. Spent the summer of '89 there, and saw it myself. People keep the guns and ammo right in their closets, next to the umbrellas.
Thjat is what liberal socialist governments and bureaucrats do about gun control. Spend your money and not help law abiding citizens. The criminals do not bother to abide by that law either.
That is what liberal socialist governments and bureaucrats do about gun control. Spend your money and not help law abiding citizens. The criminals do not bother to abide by that law either.
Review Josey1's post, "Guns and Freedom", dated 12/22/2002, 14:40:39. This will provide you with an arsenal of ammunition for your debate.
B - BreatheR - RelaxA - AimS - SightS - Squeeze
*In 1909 Henry Ford created the Model T and it got around 30mpg..today's Ford's may be safer and more luxurious but in 100 years we've not really gotten further on a gallon of gasoline have we?*
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
*In 1909 Henry Ford created the Model T and it got around 30mpg..today's Ford's may be safer and more luxurious but in 100 years we've not really gotten further on a gallon of gasoline have we?*
There was a Lady jogging Central Park, she was attacked by 4 young black men, they Raped her and then beat her in the head with an Iron Pipe, attempting to kill her. (somehow she lived to testify).
I have a good friend named "AHMED" he is from Croatia. Ahmed has seen his people raped and killed, (until young men as himself finally captured enough Rifles and Ammunition to defend themselves). The Bosinians and Serbs had the Guns = The Bosinians and Serbs did the rape and killing, (Does this make the equation?) Read the Book or watch the Movie; "Straight through the Heart". Stay away from Liberals in La La Land, they will be the first to cry "Foul", then come to Patriots to cover their cowardly butts. (Liberals; obviously are not students of History, nor do they understand the Human Physique. "We have Tamed the Rivers and Harnessed the Lightning, yet let us become Angry, hungry or Hurt; we look into the mirror and see the Fiery eyes of the Caveman staring back. We have made great strides in improving our dwellings, transportation, medical and food supplys; we have yet to tame the Beast within".
Ronnie G. Perkins
You see Randy Weaver again, tell him from me, "Gunphreak" from Ohio, that I said God Bless and that I am looking for his book (hard to find around here) and can't wait to read it. Then tell him I said "Death to tyrants!!!"[:D]
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
http://www.ynot4free.com
There's a whole page dedicated to the subject with lots of links to stats.
Click on the Blue Freedom button in the menu on the left.
Good luck.
http://ynot4free.com
If the Founding Fathers had been more like Heir Darrell: We would not be having this discussion.
Ronnie G. Perkins
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
Ronnie G. Perkins
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
if they don't want us to have guns for self defense, what do they want us to have?
http://www.rense.com/general32/nine.htm
There is simply no better form of self-defense than a firearm and the knowledge to use it effectively and responsibly. The vast majority of successful defensive uses of guns involve simple brandishment of the weapon. You don't have to fire a gun to defend yourself with it.