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Darrel, you need to read "The Hiding Place," which is the story of a jewish lady's experience with the German invasion, and her time at the concetration camps. The book is NOT pro-gun, but she, as someone who was there, pointed out that the first step after the invasion was to gather the records of gun REGISTRATIONS, and force those people to turn them in. They also said that anyone else who had unregistered firearms must turn them in within 24 hours at the pain of death. It is overwhelmingly true; DICTATORS MUST HAVE AN UNARMED SOCIETY! What distinguishes a citizen from a subject is the right to bear arms.
JimKane, I am also a college student, and I have had this debate with many people, many of who were by far my senior, but most of them realized the importance and validity of my argument and they agreed, even if coming from the opposite stand point. I have devoted much time to the study of this issue, and it is one of my passions to defend it, so if you, or anyone else needs, wants, or would like any information on this, I would more than glad to give it to you. ( Curly4142@yahoo.com )
Also, another good book, by Wayne La Pierre, is "Shooting Straight". It's not quite as wordy as More Guns Less Crime. They are both great books though, as I have read them both.
I have to give my admiration to gunphreak too. He is one of the many I have seen on here (props to the other ones too), who say it how it is, no holds barred. Godspeed to you guys. I thought I was one of the few using Luke 22:36 as a reference from my "ammuntion pile."
P.S. Snakeeyes--- The reason for Ruby Ridge is that the father (suspect according to the ATF) was in league with the Aryan Nation. While he was not doing, or involved in any illegal activities, he wouldn't cooperate with the ATF in their attempts to put a mole in the Nation's leagues. They (ATF)were trying to get the father to sell or buy a sawed off shotgun to or from, whichever the case may be, the Nation so they would have probable cause. Since the father wouldn't do it, they set up command near his house. A short while after the command was set up, this guys teenage son was walking their dog. The dog spotted a couple of agents (unmarked, in plain clothes, unmarked vehicle). When the dog ran up on them, they shot the dog, and the boy returned fire with a 30-30, because he didn't know that they were ATF. He hit the one agent in the stomach, they returned fire and killed the kid, which started the main siege, which you seem to have down farily well.
Subscribe:
StudentsOpinionsRegardingSecondAmendment-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
check out the links/bookmarks. You'll find link that will take you to cases stating that police have no duty to protect you.
If you'll subscribe to WAGC's "Armed Citizens Save Live" Page, you'll have
access to many REAL stories of how Armed Citens have save lives and
dertered crime and how gun control kills!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Whew!!!!!That's a lot of stuff to talk about in your dorm. If you can get the opposing side to sit still long enough to say all that.
I am having a debate in my communication class tues. and we have the topic of the right to bear arms.. We are role playing and have to be somewhat tolerant of the anti perspective. I guess the main thing to share with you is that in the discussions we get into I let the other side know that it is an agree to disagree situation..... This is just a discussion. However if it came down to it where we would have to fight to keep our guns or to protect one another I let them know they can count on me to be there for their defense. They have earned my respect and I theirs. Isn't that where we need to start is to give them something logical and fitting for their lifestyles? It starts with developing the raport with another to let them know you are not fantical just practical.....
Chunkstyle, it is much, much worse than most of you know in regards to a citizen being convicted of a non-violent felony and then having to give up gun rights, voting rights, and be branded as a felon for life. That person can not even legally ASSOCIATE with any gun owner or even another person who was also convicted of a not-violent felony (marijuana sales, embezzlement, etc). I sometimes wonder if the government is secretly trying to find a way to make felons out of all of us.
if they don't want us to have guns for self defense, what do they want us to have?
TextZIP: I would like to say "I agree with you" but I don't. History proves "Only the Strong Survive" not the tolerant. Tr Fox, is absolutly correct. The avererage Citizen isn't aware of the undercurrent and if they refuse to listen to the KNOWING, they will be caught in the under tow and drown. People such as TR FOX and Myself have swam these waters before, and are fully aware of the hazards beyond the scope of normal vision. [V]
The trick : Demonize; then Capitalize! [}:)] or as Julius Caesar devised: "Divide and Conquer". One of the Greatist men in History = Tiberius Gracchus, beliving in the original "Licinian Laws", his desire was to return the Power to the Yeoman Class (from which all power eminates). Yet how many know of or remember this Great Man? But few people would fail to recognize the name of the Emperor/God, Julius Caesar.
The problem persist; Humanity forgets as fast as it learns. As for me; "Give me Liberty or Give me Death" (to coin another Great Man).
1. Talk in circles.
2. Lie about statistics, hoping you're too ignorant or lazy to look them up.
3. Try to discredit.
4. Evade the issue.
5. Answer questions with questions.
6. Try to yell louder than you can.
7. Get you to admit even once that you may not know.
8. Gang up.
9. Sob story (from the news).
10. Do the things that Ronnie described.
My solution to the problem, in the order they occur:
1. Confront them about talking in circles, and make them out to be idiots.
2. Come armed with your own stats and confront them about being liars. And remember, Biblical scripture trumps all statistics, because if we were following His lead, the statistics wouldn't exist. If you use these powerful tools, do not accept for one minute the "I'm offended" argument and stop. You are purposing to offend, and this is the most effective way. Read your Bible. Learn it, and apply it.
3. Discredit them right back, and don't let up for one second.
4. Force the issue. If necessary, tell them they are evading an issue and confront them on it.
5. Answer a question to a question to a question.
6. Bring a megaphone.
7. Stick to your guns.
8. Come with your own back up. Good enough for them, it's good enough for you.
9. Call to their attention that, first of all, it may have been preventable if the victim was armed, and second of all, let them know that more lives are saved than taken from guns, and third of all, come up with original goodies.
10. Do not let them get in "buzz" words. Train yourself not to use them yourself. Play on a Constitutionally correct field, not a "politically korrect" field. Truth is like Kryptonite to a liberal. Be as well informed as you absolutely, positively can. Never back down. These blood suckers are like vultures lying in wait for a wounded animal to finally succumb to injuries.
This is not a wholly inclusive list. They create new strategies every day. Prepare yourself. Create your own attack strategies. Don't be afraid to offend them. There's nothing like watching a liberal crawl into the fetal position because they were hit with too much truth all at once... nothing!!!!
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
gunphreak: thanks for taking the time to compose and post that last one. Some really good stuff you put there. Lately it has occurred to me that most anti-gun people are really just totally "anti-self responsibility". They want you to depend on the govt., not yourself, for the self-defense of last resort, and it someone doesn't want to work, these same anti-self responsibility people think the taxpayers should provide that non-working person with money. And the same for the criminals in that these same people want to blame a bad childhood or blame society for failing the criminal and thereby forcing the poor criminal into a criminal lifestyle, on on and on an on.
if they don't want us to have guns for self defense, what do they want us to have?
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
A little Boy about 7 years old lived with his Mother, Grandmother, 2 Sisters, and older Brother. The little boy got up one night thirsty for a glass of milk. While pouring he looked at the kitchen window. A man was there stone still, he had been trying to open the window and paused seeing the little boy. The milk poured in the glass and all over the table. Realiseing this the little boy capped the milk jug and put it down. He walked calmly to the next bedroom where his Grandmother lay sleeping. Quietly he shook her awake telling her about the man. The Grandmother awoke the Mother who was Deaf (hard of hearing). The Mother grabbed her rifle and called the 2 Dogs which she let out of the house. The Dogs chased the man over the fence.
The Sheriff came the next day to inspect and question the Boy as to what he saw. There were large boot prints by the window and no doubt to the boys word on the subject.
That little boy was me. Until a few years ago I could'nt look at windows at night without fear. Without that gun and the dogs we were defenseless. The Police show up after you call them if you are able.
There was a thump at my door. I grabbed my .45 and approached the door quietly. Finally, the door opened up (it was locked) and in stepped a large guy with a crowbar. The next thin that come out of my mouth was, "I think you got the wrong f**king house!!!"
That was the end of that. Imagine how it could have turned out.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and EVERY other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of EITHER the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people" (Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788)
"To prohibit a citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm . . . is an unwarranted restriction upon the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege." [Wilson v. State, 33 Ark. 557, at 560, 34 Am. Rep. 52, at 54 (1878)]
...when all else fails, check www.nra.org or your state rifle & pistol association, or use the web for the most by looking up gun related sites. You can also check out some of the articles in magazines like Guns & Ammo, etc.
Refer them to the increase in crimes in places like England after their stupid laws to outlaw firearms. You may want to remind them that anyone can attempt to outlaw anything for any reason, an example would be to outlaw the use of cars because of drunk drivers. Punish us all like the children in school for one person's actions.
Some people are just boneheads when it comes to personal protection and gun ownership.
Maybe you should invite these people to a local gun club for some shooting - maybe you can change their mind about gun ownership!
Good luck, the battle never ends, it just has different fronts!
I am a public high school government and history teacher. Unlike most teachers in my department, I am a life member of the NRA and a member of the board for the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance. In my class I have students read statements from the Founding Fathers on the right to keep and bear arms. I also use articles or excerpts from John Lott, his book is worth the tedious statistics, from Dr. Edgar Suter, the Second Amendment Sisters, The Jews For the Preservation of Firearms, and several other websites. They have answers to anything those folks are throwing at you. In addition, I lived in Baltimore and Philadelphia and was a police officer. I have first hand experience about the need for citizens to be able to protect themselves and the lamentable inability of the police to protect citizens. If you go to the Jews for the Preservation sight, make sure you download Dr. Sarah Thompson's article on why the anti-gun crowd is filled with such rage against the pro-Second Amendment folks. Let me know how it goes.
The history (short version) of how I got started in defending the Second Amendment might be of interest. I was a freshman in college. I had gone from inner city Philadelphia schools to a Western Maryland hillbilly school. In other words, I graduated learning nothing. So I'm taking a class called "20th Century American Foreign Diplomacy." The professor's name, Barbara O Mingle, (and you're a commielib bruja if you read this Barbara)had a big thing about guns. She asked us to raise our hand if we thought it was a right. I and many others did. The problem was, I knew what I believed but not why. She then went on to tear into us, mock us, and single us out. About once a week, in this class on foreign policy, she brought up a new aspect of the gun control debate. Again, please raise your hands if you believe...By the middle of the semester, I was the only one still raising my hands. The point, being ridiculed, mocked, and graded accordingly, was unfair. But it taught me to go out and research the facts so I can hold my own. I have never stopped doing this.
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Try this one on: I have been * numerous time (as of late), (and by the Powers that "B"), it I am Malitia? [:o)] Hell! I can't even spell Malitia? (correct me if i'm wrong). Seems these Posting get Monitered by The "SPOOKS", and then their opinion gets transferd on to other enitys. I tell ya! These people are so Paranoid = They can't comprehend anyone actually believing in America or the Constitution, as being anything , other than Radical? But then; They retain (and always will) Their Weapon on THEIR Hip, I can see why they can well afford to be opptimistic. Tells me: They value their Life above mine; I find that very disarming! & If they find me Offensive ~ Its because I am being Offended.
LOCK & LOAD
I've heard people tell me they'll never get all the guns, and they're probably right, but a Revolution will occur and the blood will flow.
There are people out there with $200,000-$300,000 shotguns, and if you think a few people coming to the door telling them they're being confiscated ain't gonna get shot, you're nuts.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
gunphreak
YOUR IDEA ISN'T IN STEP WITH REALITY THE IRQI PEOPLE OUR A GREAT EXAMPLE OF WHAT HAPPENS. EVERY ONE WITH A GUN AND NO BODY KILLED SADAMM WONDER WHY. MY GUESS IS THAT ANYONE PLANING ON KILLING HIM
WOULD TALK TO SOMEONE ABOUT THAT AND BE TURNED IN TO THE GOVERMENT
AND KILLED. IF YOU DECIDED TO KILL HIM YOUR SELF YOUR FAMILY WOULD
BE KILLED. GREAT SECURITY I GUESS.
Guess again. The only people who had guns there was THEM. No one else could afford them, and most of them were more concerned about feeding their families more than overthrowing a tyrant. It certainly doesn't help that their education is intentionally dumbed down. Saddam starves his people (while affording himself every luxury under the sun), sends police out to patrol everyone (equipped with machine guns), which thoroughly keeps them from speaking out, assembling, educating, acting out, or demonstrating....
Our news media has lied to you... there are not a great deal of guns in civilian hands (and by he looks of it, that might be changing now), because civilians in Iraq were not allowed to own anything.... period, especially not guns. They have never been legal in Russia, either, even though I have heard the news media say you could buy an AK-47 for less than a pair of jeans in Russia. Wrong!!! You can't buy AK-47's or any other gun in Russia.
Don't believe the media for everything it says. Liberals control it, because they want to control you, and me, and everyone else.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Fact is: My little woman would be a prime example of how Americans have been taught to think; This morning> She asked>"I wonder if its raining outside"?> She turns the T.V. too the Weather Channel> waits for all the commercials to end> waits for the "Your Weather on the 8ths" <and gets = 80% chance of percipitation> ??????????? I must have missed something > as usual; I lift the blinds = Yup! It's raining alright!
I have an Aunt, about 6 years older than I. This lady was farm raised, cooked many a rabbit, turtle, frog leg, shot a 22 rifle from the front porch (as did most of us kids >with good supervision of course). This Lady, home spun, un-assuming, impressionable, > 40 years later> during a conversation with my Uncle and myself > States Mater-of-factly: "I'm afraid of Guns". Thanks ROSIE, now maybe you can instruct her about "How insensitive men can be" or "The Art of Cat Licking". ****** "Ignorance is Not Bliss, Ignorance has no particular direction" - Ignorance is neither Good or Bad, Ignorance is merely Accessable. Liberal People tend to be Self Absorbed, Self Gratifying, and Insecure. While considering themselves "Progressive Thinkers", expounding their Insecurites on the simple minded, seemingly finding Security in their Insecurity by inlisting the simple person into their cause. (Which proves the Old Addage "Misery Loves Company").
The Reality of the Situation: If Laws (rules and regulations) were passed requiring petty thieves to have their hand cut off - you can bet = there are people with the proper mentality which would step forward, ready, willing, and able, to enforce and careout the sentence. Finding Guards at Dachu-Auswitch-Vieldflickin, was no problem. BUT! Would the ATF Special Agents Give Up Their Day Jobs? There is only 1 Qualifying Question on The ATF Application: If Necessary; Would you shoot your Momma? yes___ NO___ Already have ____.[:o)]
i keep hearing about the rights that were given to us by the bill of rights, my recollection is that these were inalienable rights given by god to all men and there needed to be a reason to take them away.
you will never win a gun control argument with someone that has been indoctrinated to believe you shouldnt own them by telling them about the second amndment. i know, i somehow ended up liking guns out of a whole family that thinks they are bad(yep the gun nut)and useless or worse.the best i do is get a draw mostly.the only argument that makes any sense to them is why shouldnt i own a gun? i'm not a convict, i'm allowed to buy whatever car i want why shouldnt i own a gun? im allowed to buy a little house or a big house why shouldnt i have the same decision power with my magazines?
one of my uncles came by one time when i had just purchased 1000 rds of .223 to feed my ar and he was asking me why i needed that much ammo. i tried to explain the concept of practising my marksmanship till i could be sure that if i hhad to defend myself or shoot a target match i would hit what i aimed at.he also couldnt understand why i had more than one gun(hes not the only one in my family iv'e been through this with ) or more than one magazine for the gun.
ive gotten a few converts but most will shoot with me but would never keep a gun in their home. the indoctrination on that one is: if you keep a gun in the house for defense ,the children will get it and will kill someone and if you keep the ammo separate from the gun you'll never get it in time.as for me i dont understand how a man would put the defense of his home, property, wife,kids, dignity,and all he holds dear in the hands of people will get there only after the crime has been committed.its negligence and dereliction of responsibility.
every state that has adopted right to carry laws has seen a reduction in crime as criminals move to easier to mug states. all the statistics that say that teens are being killed at an alarming rate with guns fail to mention that half of them are gangbangers shooting each other. the antigun statisticians will compare our gun suicide rate with belguim and note how with strict gun laws belguim has a much lower suicide by gun rate, they will leave out the difference in population size and any other methods of suicide were used instead.
when you say that englands crime rate has skyrocketed since the ban of almost all guns, they will point out that there hasnt been another dunblane since the guns were seized. here in the u.s. the call to extend the AWB will always have a reference to stockton and now the dc sniper.in kalifornia it is now common to see police responding to crime scene with full auto weapons, shouldnt they be safer with everything banned?
the more freedoms removed from the poulace, the more it is likely to clamor for the goverment to protect them. the less self reliant they become the more they will demonize and criminalize anyone who wants freedom.
quote:Their Weapon on THEIR Hip, I can see why they can well afford to be opptimistic. Tells me: They value their Life above mine; I find that very disarming! & If they find me Offensive ~ Its because I am being Offended.
LOCK & LOAD
Ronnie G. Perkins
=======================================
Ronnie,
Another question might be? Why are police officers that retire allowed to carry concealed weapons in states that don't uphold right-to-carry laws. Could it be that the anti-gun freaks think retired police officers might need to defend themselves against criminals they arrested years ago. In the anti-gun freaks world the criminals will not possess guns. So, why let inactive police officers carry concealed?[:(!]
A logical response to that question would be because gun kontrol works in reverse. Realistically, it disarms the wrong people.
Here is some more gun kontrol logic for you:
1. People should not use more than 10 round magazines to defend themselves from criminals, whereby cops should use the highest capacity magazine they can get their hands on and call for backup on top of all that. Why else would they need those hicaps??
2. People can't be trusted, so we should ban all guns, and the people will just turn 'em all in because they can't be trusted... (WTF???)
3. A woman that is found raped and strangled in an alleyway is morally superior to a woman standing over a dead rapist's pathetic corpse with a smoking gun in her hand.
4. A woman is just as capable with life's problems as a man, but sticking a gun in her hand is an accident waiting to happen.
5. A killer will just take a .357 away from a woman and shoot her with it, but spraying him with mace or oven cleaner will subdue him. (Sure thing)
6. "There is no such thing as the black market. Those stories about criminals obtaining their guns at anything except gun stores and retail stores are lies.", something Baghdad Bob would say.
Gun Kontrol logic is everything but logical. These are all abundantly lies, told to delude the listener, and stage a nasty end for the weakest members of society, while the strongest fight on.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
sadly many of these people do believe the bill of rights is a relic of the past EXCEPT for their right to tell off anyone that still believes. its a darn shame
We are all committed to the consumerism economic cycle that has been created. We buy everything pre-made for us now. We rely fully on foreign oil. Industrial farming feeds us all.
Oil will eventually run out.
Do you:
A. Wanna be armed with a gun?
B. Starve or be robbed, raped, or tortured because you don't have a gun?
Things are going to hit the fan in our lifetimes, are you one of the fit in the Big Survival of the Fittest that will soon hit this planet? America may end up ruling this world if we make the right decisions. We may die a horrible death if we don't....Let's be one of the ARMED countries and slowly take the Nukes and firearms from the other countries before the crap hits the fan.
I'm going to have a gun and run a restaurant if the oil runs out. Today's special....Deep Fried City Slicker Steak served with potatoes and our own home made bread. Ummm Ummm Gooood.
Tomorrow Special is Politician Pot Pie served with our Classic apple pie for desert.
All of you Guys are pretty knowledgable. Couple that with Staunch Resolve and the Strengh of Your Convictions, and we may be able to retain our RIGHTS? (as well as the Rights of our Children, Grandchildren, and Americans in general).
Soon; I fear, there will be more people working for the Government or Wards of the Government, than work to PAY the Government.
I have heard some say: "They'll play hell taking my Guns". Yet I trust; Most people enjoy their life as well as their Freedom. ERGO: We are not all armed = The ATF are all armed.
We do not have the "I will lie on my fellow American, ruin his reputation and deprive him of Life, Liberty, or both, just to farther my Station within the Agency" Attitude.
I know very few people that would entrap his fellow Citizen, Lie, mis-lead, threaten, bribe, kill, to get a conviction. (At least I don't think I know any that feel it is their Job to do so).
I suppose the ATF resent being called GESTAPO? But for the life of me; I can't understand why? Does anyone here find the similarites between the ATF and Gestapo so dis-similar. (just that - up to now, they haven't killed as many people, and that may be because we are well armed). How would the ATF conduct itself if we were all disarmed?
I believe if anyone were to do Indepth Research; They would find the requirements for ATF = one must be a Psychotic neurotic, leaning toward, Manic Depressive, and a goodly part Paranoid.
The requirement for an assault by the ATF - The assailled must be Outmanned and Out Gunned at the ratio of approxmatly 10 - 1, (but we must take into consideration; Their Life is much more important than the commons, self defence is their Right, but no longer ours?
Someone please tell me the Reason a Federal Prosecutor feels the need to carry a weapon, concealed, while during Court? There isn't anyone in the Court Room that hasn't gone through the Metal Detector, and there are 5 or 6 US Marshalls around him (just incase anyone attacks). Is that Illusions of Granduer or merely Paranoia? (perhaps a Guilty Consious?)
Prudence decrees: When the ATF come ah callin, you will not be given notice and you will be overwhelmed. Personally, I do not consider myself a Coward, but 10 -1 odds isn't a safe bet.
"Selfdefence is Natures oldest Law", Selfdefence is not Licenced by nor subject to approval of the ATF.
[:D] Why is it? Most SOB's don't know they are SOB's and resent it when someone attempts to make them aware of their Callin?
[^]If "WE" are true Americans and believe in Democracy: What are the ATF?
[;)]I would probably get into big trouble if I called A Special Agent of the ATF a Sum ova *, so can I just "think" they are? Is there anything in the Federal Criminal Codes covering "just thinking"? Proably! If not; don't be impatient. (I just call it like I see it).
Comments
JimKane, I am also a college student, and I have had this debate with many people, many of who were by far my senior, but most of them realized the importance and validity of my argument and they agreed, even if coming from the opposite stand point. I have devoted much time to the study of this issue, and it is one of my passions to defend it, so if you, or anyone else needs, wants, or would like any information on this, I would more than glad to give it to you. ( Curly4142@yahoo.com )
Also, another good book, by Wayne La Pierre, is "Shooting Straight". It's not quite as wordy as More Guns Less Crime. They are both great books though, as I have read them both.
I have to give my admiration to gunphreak too. He is one of the many I have seen on here (props to the other ones too), who say it how it is, no holds barred. Godspeed to you guys. I thought I was one of the few using Luke 22:36 as a reference from my "ammuntion pile."
P.S. Snakeeyes--- The reason for Ruby Ridge is that the father (suspect according to the ATF) was in league with the Aryan Nation. While he was not doing, or involved in any illegal activities, he wouldn't cooperate with the ATF in their attempts to put a mole in the Nation's leagues. They (ATF)were trying to get the father to sell or buy a sawed off shotgun to or from, whichever the case may be, the Nation so they would have probable cause. Since the father wouldn't do it, they set up command near his house. A short while after the command was set up, this guys teenage son was walking their dog. The dog spotted a couple of agents (unmarked, in plain clothes, unmarked vehicle). When the dog ran up on them, they shot the dog, and the boy returned fire with a 30-30, because he didn't know that they were ATF. He hit the one agent in the stomach, they returned fire and killed the kid, which started the main siege, which you seem to have down farily well.
StudentsOpinionsRegardingSecondAmendment-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
check out the links/bookmarks. You'll find link that will take you to cases stating that police have no duty to protect you.
If you'll subscribe to WAGC's "Armed Citizens Save Live" Page, you'll have
access to many REAL stories of how Armed Citens have save lives and
dertered crime and how gun control kills!
Subscribe: ArmedCitizensDeterCrime-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
The Second Amendment IS our Homeland Security
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/guest/s_114372.html
email me at bill@ArmChairHunter.com
I'm a Beretta fan, too. Love my 92FS[:D]
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
url]http://www.fightthebias.com/Resources/gun_control_debate.htm
I am having a debate in my communication class tues. and we have the topic of the right to bear arms.. We are role playing and have to be somewhat tolerant of the anti perspective. I guess the main thing to share with you is that in the discussions we get into I let the other side know that it is an agree to disagree situation..... This is just a discussion. However if it came down to it where we would have to fight to keep our guns or to protect one another I let them know they can count on me to be there for their defense. They have earned my respect and I theirs. Isn't that where we need to start is to give them something logical and fitting for their lifestyles? It starts with developing the raport with another to let them know you are not fantical just practical.....
if they don't want us to have guns for self defense, what do they want us to have?
The trick : Demonize; then Capitalize! [}:)] or as Julius Caesar devised: "Divide and Conquer". One of the Greatist men in History = Tiberius Gracchus, beliving in the original "Licinian Laws", his desire was to return the Power to the Yeoman Class (from which all power eminates). Yet how many know of or remember this Great Man? But few people would fail to recognize the name of the Emperor/God, Julius Caesar.
The problem persist; Humanity forgets as fast as it learns. As for me; "Give me Liberty or Give me Death" (to coin another Great Man).
Ronnie G. Perkins
The strategy for a liberal is to...
1. Talk in circles.
2. Lie about statistics, hoping you're too ignorant or lazy to look them up.
3. Try to discredit.
4. Evade the issue.
5. Answer questions with questions.
6. Try to yell louder than you can.
7. Get you to admit even once that you may not know.
8. Gang up.
9. Sob story (from the news).
10. Do the things that Ronnie described.
My solution to the problem, in the order they occur:
1. Confront them about talking in circles, and make them out to be idiots.
2. Come armed with your own stats and confront them about being liars. And remember, Biblical scripture trumps all statistics, because if we were following His lead, the statistics wouldn't exist. If you use these powerful tools, do not accept for one minute the "I'm offended" argument and stop. You are purposing to offend, and this is the most effective way. Read your Bible. Learn it, and apply it.
3. Discredit them right back, and don't let up for one second.
4. Force the issue. If necessary, tell them they are evading an issue and confront them on it.
5. Answer a question to a question to a question.
6. Bring a megaphone.
7. Stick to your guns.
8. Come with your own back up. Good enough for them, it's good enough for you.
9. Call to their attention that, first of all, it may have been preventable if the victim was armed, and second of all, let them know that more lives are saved than taken from guns, and third of all, come up with original goodies.
10. Do not let them get in "buzz" words. Train yourself not to use them yourself. Play on a Constitutionally correct field, not a "politically korrect" field. Truth is like Kryptonite to a liberal. Be as well informed as you absolutely, positively can. Never back down. These blood suckers are like vultures lying in wait for a wounded animal to finally succumb to injuries.
This is not a wholly inclusive list. They create new strategies every day. Prepare yourself. Create your own attack strategies. Don't be afraid to offend them. There's nothing like watching a liberal crawl into the fetal position because they were hit with too much truth all at once... nothing!!!!
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
if they don't want us to have guns for self defense, what do they want us to have?
http://www.jpfo.org/ragingagainstselfdefense.htm
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
The Sheriff came the next day to inspect and question the Boy as to what he saw. There were large boot prints by the window and no doubt to the boys word on the subject.
That little boy was me. Until a few years ago I could'nt look at windows at night without fear. Without that gun and the dogs we were defenseless. The Police show up after you call them if you are able.
David R. Kelley
That was the end of that. Imagine how it could have turned out.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
"To prohibit a citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm . . . is an unwarranted restriction upon the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege." [Wilson v. State, 33 Ark. 557, at 560, 34 Am. Rep. 52, at 54 (1878)]
Refer them to the increase in crimes in places like England after their stupid laws to outlaw firearms. You may want to remind them that anyone can attempt to outlaw anything for any reason, an example would be to outlaw the use of cars because of drunk drivers. Punish us all like the children in school for one person's actions.
Some people are just boneheads when it comes to personal protection and gun ownership.
Maybe you should invite these people to a local gun club for some shooting - maybe you can change their mind about gun ownership!
Good luck, the battle never ends, it just has different fronts!
Ronnie G. Perkins
I am a public high school government and history teacher. Unlike most teachers in my department, I am a life member of the NRA and a member of the board for the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance. In my class I have students read statements from the Founding Fathers on the right to keep and bear arms. I also use articles or excerpts from John Lott, his book is worth the tedious statistics, from Dr. Edgar Suter, the Second Amendment Sisters, The Jews For the Preservation of Firearms, and several other websites. They have answers to anything those folks are throwing at you. In addition, I lived in Baltimore and Philadelphia and was a police officer. I have first hand experience about the need for citizens to be able to protect themselves and the lamentable inability of the police to protect citizens. If you go to the Jews for the Preservation sight, make sure you download Dr. Sarah Thompson's article on why the anti-gun crowd is filled with such rage against the pro-Second Amendment folks. Let me know how it goes.
The history (short version) of how I got started in defending the Second Amendment might be of interest. I was a freshman in college. I had gone from inner city Philadelphia schools to a Western Maryland hillbilly school. In other words, I graduated learning nothing. So I'm taking a class called "20th Century American Foreign Diplomacy." The professor's name, Barbara O Mingle, (and you're a commielib bruja if you read this Barbara)had a big thing about guns. She asked us to raise our hand if we thought it was a right. I and many others did. The problem was, I knew what I believed but not why. She then went on to tear into us, mock us, and single us out. About once a week, in this class on foreign policy, she brought up a new aspect of the gun control debate. Again, please raise your hands if you believe...By the middle of the semester, I was the only one still raising my hands. The point, being ridiculed, mocked, and graded accordingly, was unfair. But it taught me to go out and research the facts so I can hold my own. I have never stopped doing this.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
LOCK & LOAD
Ronnie G. Perkins
There are people out there with $200,000-$300,000 shotguns, and if you think a few people coming to the door telling them they're being confiscated ain't gonna get shot, you're nuts.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
If force ain't work'n... Your not use'n nough of it
YOUR IDEA ISN'T IN STEP WITH REALITY THE IRQI PEOPLE OUR A GREAT EXAMPLE OF WHAT HAPPENS. EVERY ONE WITH A GUN AND NO BODY KILLED SADAMM WONDER WHY. MY GUESS IS THAT ANYONE PLANING ON KILLING HIM
WOULD TALK TO SOMEONE ABOUT THAT AND BE TURNED IN TO THE GOVERMENT
AND KILLED. IF YOU DECIDED TO KILL HIM YOUR SELF YOUR FAMILY WOULD
BE KILLED. GREAT SECURITY I GUESS.
Our news media has lied to you... there are not a great deal of guns in civilian hands (and by he looks of it, that might be changing now), because civilians in Iraq were not allowed to own anything.... period, especially not guns. They have never been legal in Russia, either, even though I have heard the news media say you could buy an AK-47 for less than a pair of jeans in Russia. Wrong!!! You can't buy AK-47's or any other gun in Russia.
Don't believe the media for everything it says. Liberals control it, because they want to control you, and me, and everyone else.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
And it states reference materials too. I personally have used it to silence a couple of anti-gun freaks. (Priceless)
http://www.gunblast.com/PDF/gunfacts.pdf
Have fun, [:)]
George,
I have an Aunt, about 6 years older than I. This lady was farm raised, cooked many a rabbit, turtle, frog leg, shot a 22 rifle from the front porch (as did most of us kids >with good supervision of course). This Lady, home spun, un-assuming, impressionable, > 40 years later> during a conversation with my Uncle and myself > States Mater-of-factly: "I'm afraid of Guns". Thanks ROSIE, now maybe you can instruct her about "How insensitive men can be" or "The Art of Cat Licking". ****** "Ignorance is Not Bliss, Ignorance has no particular direction" - Ignorance is neither Good or Bad, Ignorance is merely Accessable. Liberal People tend to be Self Absorbed, Self Gratifying, and Insecure. While considering themselves "Progressive Thinkers", expounding their Insecurites on the simple minded, seemingly finding Security in their Insecurity by inlisting the simple person into their cause. (Which proves the Old Addage "Misery Loves Company").
The Reality of the Situation: If Laws (rules and regulations) were passed requiring petty thieves to have their hand cut off - you can bet = there are people with the proper mentality which would step forward, ready, willing, and able, to enforce and careout the sentence. Finding Guards at Dachu-Auswitch-Vieldflickin, was no problem. BUT! Would the ATF Special Agents Give Up Their Day Jobs? There is only 1 Qualifying Question on The ATF Application: If Necessary; Would you shoot your Momma? yes___ NO___ Already have ____.[:o)]
Ronnie G. Perkins
you will never win a gun control argument with someone that has been indoctrinated to believe you shouldnt own them by telling them about the second amndment. i know, i somehow ended up liking guns out of a whole family that thinks they are bad(yep the gun nut)and useless or worse.the best i do is get a draw mostly.the only argument that makes any sense to them is why shouldnt i own a gun? i'm not a convict, i'm allowed to buy whatever car i want why shouldnt i own a gun? im allowed to buy a little house or a big house why shouldnt i have the same decision power with my magazines?
one of my uncles came by one time when i had just purchased 1000 rds of .223 to feed my ar and he was asking me why i needed that much ammo. i tried to explain the concept of practising my marksmanship till i could be sure that if i hhad to defend myself or shoot a target match i would hit what i aimed at.he also couldnt understand why i had more than one gun(hes not the only one in my family iv'e been through this with ) or more than one magazine for the gun.
ive gotten a few converts but most will shoot with me but would never keep a gun in their home. the indoctrination on that one is: if you keep a gun in the house for defense ,the children will get it and will kill someone and if you keep the ammo separate from the gun you'll never get it in time.as for me i dont understand how a man would put the defense of his home, property, wife,kids, dignity,and all he holds dear in the hands of people will get there only after the crime has been committed.its negligence and dereliction of responsibility.
every state that has adopted right to carry laws has seen a reduction in crime as criminals move to easier to mug states. all the statistics that say that teens are being killed at an alarming rate with guns fail to mention that half of them are gangbangers shooting each other. the antigun statisticians will compare our gun suicide rate with belguim and note how with strict gun laws belguim has a much lower suicide by gun rate, they will leave out the difference in population size and any other methods of suicide were used instead.
when you say that englands crime rate has skyrocketed since the ban of almost all guns, they will point out that there hasnt been another dunblane since the guns were seized. here in the u.s. the call to extend the AWB will always have a reference to stockton and now the dc sniper.in kalifornia it is now common to see police responding to crime scene with full auto weapons, shouldnt they be safer with everything banned?
the more freedoms removed from the poulace, the more it is likely to clamor for the goverment to protect them. the less self reliant they become the more they will demonize and criminalize anyone who wants freedom.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
LOCK & LOAD
Ronnie G. Perkins
=======================================
Ronnie,
Another question might be? Why are police officers that retire allowed to carry concealed weapons in states that don't uphold right-to-carry laws. Could it be that the anti-gun freaks think retired police officers might need to defend themselves against criminals they arrested years ago. In the anti-gun freaks world the criminals will not possess guns. So, why let inactive police officers carry concealed?[:(!]
George,
Here is some more gun kontrol logic for you:
1. People should not use more than 10 round magazines to defend themselves from criminals, whereby cops should use the highest capacity magazine they can get their hands on and call for backup on top of all that. Why else would they need those hicaps??
2. People can't be trusted, so we should ban all guns, and the people will just turn 'em all in because they can't be trusted... (WTF???)
3. A woman that is found raped and strangled in an alleyway is morally superior to a woman standing over a dead rapist's pathetic corpse with a smoking gun in her hand.
4. A woman is just as capable with life's problems as a man, but sticking a gun in her hand is an accident waiting to happen.
5. A killer will just take a .357 away from a woman and shoot her with it, but spraying him with mace or oven cleaner will subdue him. (Sure thing)
6. "There is no such thing as the black market. Those stories about criminals obtaining their guns at anything except gun stores and retail stores are lies.", something Baghdad Bob would say.
Gun Kontrol logic is everything but logical. These are all abundantly lies, told to delude the listener, and stage a nasty end for the weakest members of society, while the strongest fight on.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
Oil will eventually run out.
Do you:
A. Wanna be armed with a gun?
B. Starve or be robbed, raped, or tortured because you don't have a gun?
Things are going to hit the fan in our lifetimes, are you one of the fit in the Big Survival of the Fittest that will soon hit this planet? America may end up ruling this world if we make the right decisions. We may die a horrible death if we don't....Let's be one of the ARMED countries and slowly take the Nukes and firearms from the other countries before the crap hits the fan.
I'm going to have a gun and run a restaurant if the oil runs out. Today's special....Deep Fried City Slicker Steak served with potatoes and our own home made bread. Ummm Ummm Gooood.
Tomorrow Special is Politician Pot Pie served with our Classic apple pie for desert.
Soon; I fear, there will be more people working for the Government or Wards of the Government, than work to PAY the Government.
I have heard some say: "They'll play hell taking my Guns". Yet I trust; Most people enjoy their life as well as their Freedom. ERGO: We are not all armed = The ATF are all armed.
We do not have the "I will lie on my fellow American, ruin his reputation and deprive him of Life, Liberty, or both, just to farther my Station within the Agency" Attitude.
I know very few people that would entrap his fellow Citizen, Lie, mis-lead, threaten, bribe, kill, to get a conviction. (At least I don't think I know any that feel it is their Job to do so).
I suppose the ATF resent being called GESTAPO? But for the life of me; I can't understand why? Does anyone here find the similarites between the ATF and Gestapo so dis-similar. (just that - up to now, they haven't killed as many people, and that may be because we are well armed). How would the ATF conduct itself if we were all disarmed?
I believe if anyone were to do Indepth Research; They would find the requirements for ATF = one must be a Psychotic neurotic, leaning toward, Manic Depressive, and a goodly part Paranoid.
The requirement for an assault by the ATF - The assailled must be Outmanned and Out Gunned at the ratio of approxmatly 10 - 1, (but we must take into consideration; Their Life is much more important than the commons, self defence is their Right, but no longer ours?
Someone please tell me the Reason a Federal Prosecutor feels the need to carry a weapon, concealed, while during Court? There isn't anyone in the Court Room that hasn't gone through the Metal Detector, and there are 5 or 6 US Marshalls around him (just incase anyone attacks). Is that Illusions of Granduer or merely Paranoia? (perhaps a Guilty Consious?)
Prudence decrees: When the ATF come ah callin, you will not be given notice and you will be overwhelmed. Personally, I do not consider myself a Coward, but 10 -1 odds isn't a safe bet.
"Selfdefence is Natures oldest Law", Selfdefence is not Licenced by nor subject to approval of the ATF.
"DEMOCRACY IS NOT SELF SUSTAINING"
Ronnie G. Perkins
[^]If "WE" are true Americans and believe in Democracy: What are the ATF?
[;)]I would probably get into big trouble if I called A Special Agent of the ATF a Sum ova *, so can I just "think" they are? Is there anything in the Federal Criminal Codes covering "just thinking"? Proably! If not; don't be impatient. (I just call it like I see it).
"LOCK & LOAD"
Ronnie G. Perkins