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Un-American Activity

Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
Think it odd how the tables have turned? At one time, Gun Ownership or Possesion was a "RIGHT", an American Citizen's RIGHT!Now! Must we assume we are no longer Citizens; but SUBJECTS? I know the Liberals well enough to predict: Liberals will relinquish our "RIGHTS" until there are no Rights to give up. [:(!] For lack of a better term; The Liberals will call it Security? I consider Liberals very optimistic when it comes to Historical Fact.

At one time we; We considered any enity operating covertly as CIA or KGB, (But doesn't the CIA operate for the American People?) Now we have BATF operating Covertly? (If they came into my store Wired & I knew it; an * whipping would have transpired.) I would assume: An ATF Agent out of their element, has a kickable *, just as anyone else? Now! The trick is: To get them out of their Element. Hell, they arn't Government ordained Gods, (or are they?)

Please stay tuned for continuing updates and observations. [}:)]

Ronnie G. Perkins
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    IAMAHUSKERIAMAHUSKER Member Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I do not know you Delta but, it seems you and I see eye to eye on a lot of things. Keep the good posts coming. I love to read um.
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    Mr.PissyPantsMr.PissyPants Member Posts: 3,575
    edited November -1
    Hmmm... thats some good food for thought Delta. Your right though, they will surrender every right we have for "safety" or "security" if given enough time and opportunity.

    The BATF does seem to have quite a bit of weight to throw around. I wouldn't doubt if what you are saying is how it actually is.

    fc3000ae.jpg"Are you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?"
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We need to start a DATA Base on all ATF Agents, their Names appx age, Color Hair, height, etc. Just seems reasonable to me? If our Information is Privy to them, I believe their Information, Location, etc, should be available to US, (should we ever need it). [\size=4]

    [red]NOW! Everyone says they would like to do something, (something NON-Violent, I assume?) Then "WE" need a volunteer. We need someone to keep the Data and keep it secure, plus available if needed. A contact person, or E-mail Address for all incoming information, via the rest of us. Pictures would be a great help, (The ATF told me: "We are Camera Shy"), Doesn't mater if they are Camera Shy or not, up until now; There isn't a Law preventing anyone from taking Pictures of ATF Agents. [8D] Respect is a two way street, just as "Covert" is a two way street. When Law Enforcement is "Camera Shy", something is inanlty wrong.

    Time for talk is over/ or as George Patton once said: "The best defense, is a Good offense". What I am suggesting is niether Immoral, Un-ethical, or Illegal, BUT definitly necessary, and TRULY "AMERICAN".

    "DEMOCRACY IS NOT SELF SUSTANING"TextTextText

    Ronnie G. Perkins
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    6/14/2003

    Land of the Free & Home of the Brave? Will be changed to: "Don't burst my Bubble, For I have too much in my 401K".

    Now they tell us; We were fighting for Iraqs Freedom? If "We" are gullible = It's because we have chosen to be.

    It takes a pretty "Sorry" American that won't defend his own "Rights".

    From Silverado to Enron = How secure is your Bubble? Billions lost in Peoples 401K (this we are aware of). My question would be: If Millions of Working Americans lost most of their savings? Who found it? Mr. Rumsfeld survived ENRON and Progressed to Secretary of Defense. (shows the Old Saying is true = "You can't keep a Good Man down".)

    Anyone notice the Progression of Leadership in this Country of ours? Bush to Bush, Clinton to Clinton, Kennedy to Kennedy. The only thing we can rest assured of: None of the afore mentioned will ever want for anything. (the list is much longer than those few). Why do we Americans allow Dynastys, not only allow them, but perpetuate them?

    How many Law Enforcement People die each year from Gun Shot? Then why isn't it "We", instead, which require Bullet Proof Vest and Assault Weapons? (will someone please call for Back Up?)

    Dianne Feinstein should be ashamed! Isn't it "The People" which pay High Dollar for her protection? (forget her retirement plan).

    Don't we all feel so sorry for Hillary? Call her "Tenacious, Resilient and Flexible". (not to overlook; "Forgiving")

    The Road to Power & Riches = Write some books, (doesn't mater the content or Integrity of the Books) write enough and some will sell, of curiosity (if nothing else). Learn to lean both ways until the prevailing Winds decree the proper direction. Foremost = Never admit to anything, (it is ok to hint). Smile a lot. (all the way to the Bank if necessary). [:0]

    270 million People - How do we end up with so few viable options?

    Does Power really corrupt? (like we haven't experenced the answer) hello Haliburton (Tyson, etc.) Ron Browns Death should have been investigated by the "Park Police". Good enough for Ol Vince, good enough for Mr. Brown.

    Where is Susan McDougal when you need her? Shame on Monica - Taking advantage of a Highly Intelligent and Honorable 50 year old man.

    Ronnie G. Perkins
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    faldumfaldum Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ronnie:

    Care to elaborate on your ATF difficulties?
    And what specifically you have done to rectify them?
    Your reference to "a** whipping" does not appear to be a very prudent means of addressing the matter.
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    nitrouznitrouz Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "It takes a pretty "Sorry" American that won't defend his own "Rights". "




    Exactly.

    Which is why I contact my elected officials on everything I dislike, write letter's to the editor of local papers, and stock pile ammuntion and firearms for the inevitable Civil War that will soon hit this country.
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    faldumfaldum Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nitrouz:

    Superb point.

    Condemning half the inhabitants of the latest Newsweek
    will solve absolutely nothing.

    Delta, my man, what you need is focus.

    A starting point, perhaps?

    The court docket number of your most recent ATF misfortune...

    You know... the one you previously stated that caused you to become
    a CONVICTED FELON?
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    FALDUM: Sorry Ol Man, did not mean to distrub you. But! Can ATF be convicted of "Terroristic Threatening"? How about "Maniptulation"? Does "Intimidation" ring a bell? Coercion, Lies, and Inuendo. Yet I am suggested to be "Prudent"? I think there is more than enough "Prudence" already wasted by the American Public. (CAN ANYONE SAY: "RESOLUTE"?)

    No! Mr. FALDUM I wasn't quite clear enough. Let's do a Reality Check at this point. [^] Most here should be aware of the distinct possibility of violent confrontations, at a Ball Game, Bar, Beach, School, Mess Hall, Barracks, Social Club, Golf Course, even the House of Commons. (We are not and have never been a Pacific Species).

    It has been said: "Prudence is the better part of Valor", I would like to add: "Prudence is also, the better part of Cowardice".

    Mr. Faldum (I assume the Mister), You quiz the Docket Number? The Docket Number would be of little use to a person discerning the Truth. I would think the "Transcripts" (once released) will come nearer telling the tale. Safe to say; Life now has purpose.

    "Democracy Is Not Self Sustaining"

    Ronnie G. Perkins
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    faldumfaldum Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ronnie:

    Words to the wise (even less than wise)

    quote:You all do realize: The ATF monitors all "Gun Auction Sites"? They even run guns for auction. Sieg Heil!
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    FALDUM SIR: Have you ever loved anything more than you love yourself? If you have; then you know where I am coming from.

    I do have the Strengh of my Convictions, that may seem a little strange in todays world.

    Don't get me wrong! I do appreciate your concern, but I have my Path to Walk as you have yours.

    What is a Man; If not for what he believes? And what is a Man without the Courage to follow what he professes to believe?

    I have some that believe in me. I like to think: I may be helping them believe in themselves.

    I wanted my Sons to become Strong and Independent, to call everyman Sir, (until that man gave just cause not to warrant the Title). I tried to teach them Honesty, Courage, and Disipline, and quoted them this verse; "If you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs; You will be a Man my Son". Now! My Sons are not Perfect Men, but they are Good Men. They Love their Country and the Flag, and are loyal to the Constitution. They, as I; See the Great Mounuments, Chizzled in stone, the Good and Noble Quotations. I could not be callous enough to tell them; "These have no meaning, the words were coined and carved, merely to keep the naive and simple minded believing". And for what? "So, Son, We will fight and die, work and toil, battle in distant Wars, so a select few can live in Luxury and guide us in their Infinite Knowledge and Power."

    "Blessded are the Believers; for they will have their place in Heaven"

    What will you teach your Sons & Daughters? It is not enough to be Industrious, Honest, Devout, and Conscientious. For in this World of Compromise; Few Men Don't. Will you tell them: "Follow Mr. Clintons Lead, Son, You could become President someday"? "Don't worry about Philosophy, Baby Girl; You see it's the Economy which is most important, first fill your pockets, and if there is time left over, then you can think about getting yourself a Philosophy. Hell, Honey, you can develope a Philosophy 5 minutes before you die." "When in Rome, do as the Romans"?

    There is a Local Mother (which totally dis-agreed with me about the Drugs in our Schools) Until she caught her Daughter on them. Now! That Lady has a better understanding of - Her Daughter, The Situation confronting our Kids, our Nation, a better understanding of Herself and of me.

    "WE" now live in a Society turned deaf and blind, not because of some crazy new Virus, not because of Weapons of Mass Destruction, not because of a Shotgun with the barrel 2 inches shorter than approved, not because of Hi-cap Mags, Fast Food, not because of anything that isn't already lying dormant within our consiousness.

    'The Good Life" has become our Masters, we share that with the Children so they may become Sluggards. Fact is: The "Good Life" isn't that good, only illusion keeps us thinking so. Cancer Rate zooms, Heart Disease, AIDS, Teen Pregnancy, Abortion, SARS, Monkey Pox, TB is making a comeback. We have been told "Silicone" will make a new woman of you". "If you don't have Sex 8 - 10 times a week, you are not holding up to your responsibility". "Every Happy Marriage requires at least 8 Sex Toys". "Insure everything you have, including eachother". "Every Progressive School, should have a "Day Care Center".

    80 thousand Suicides per year, wonder how Mrs. Feinstein will fix that?

    So! I guess what I have been trying to convey FALDUM: I see things in their totality, everything effects other things, and so on. This Perfect World we all talk of striving for = WE are failing, I fear; only Hillary will be able to straighten us out.

    "Our Lives are Not separated into AirTight Compartments"

    <AND> "Democracy is not self Sustaining"!

    Ronnie G. Perkins
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    faldumfaldum Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello Delta514:

    Kindly allow me to explain a little background on my
    initial inquiry.

    There was a time in the not so distant past
    when I could literally walk to a pleasant little
    gunshop in my neighborhood (Chicago suburbs.)
    A catering business now occupies the storefront
    where the gunshop once flourished.

    Here is the reason:

    http://www.ci.chi.il.us/Mayor2/SpecialNotices/GunLawSuit.98.11.12d.html

    Needless to say, most of the remaining area gunshops are suspicious
    of any new customer who enters their shop.
    A local TV station highlighted clips of the unlawful acts captured by surveillance cameras on the evening news.
    But, apparently the former shopkeepers did participate in
    "straw purchases" as defined by the ATF code.
    And no doubt paid dearly for their transgression.
    Was the "sting" wrong?
    Perhaps the shop clerks caught live on videotape were insufficiently versed in the intracacies of the requisite code?
    Or maybe it was just a simple case of greed overcoming prudent judgement?
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    FALDUM: How about where the ATF came in 1 male 1 female. The two Agents "LIE" to the Dealer as to being Man and Wife. The Male fills out 4473 and is DELAYED = Guilty until Proven Innocent, would be the Average Citizen; BUT! These two are not your average citizens.
    The Female Agent suggest her filling one out to see if it will clear= Naturally it does cclear. The Wife makes the purchase for her ? Husband. The DEALER was then sited for "Straw Purchase".
    The Dealer eventually won the case because the Agents Falsified Information on the 4473's. The Dealer lost money on both ends. While the ATF lost nothing. The odd thing about it = The Dealer helps pay the Agents Retirement, Insurance, Monthly Pay, and furnishes a Vehicle.
    If the DEALER lies to the AGENT = What does he stand to lose?

    If the Agents lie to the Dealer = Nuttin Honey.
    If you falsify a 4473 form, how much time could
    that earn you in Federal Prison?

    In my case, a Gun was shipped into the store by ATF (pre-paid), I never prepay. I signed for the Package, not paying much attention, did not even touch the package. As soon as UPS left, within minutes, the ATF followed it in with a Warrant. The Warrant stated: "I Special Agent Mercer, have reason to believe the weapon discribed is on the premises of Delta Guns Sales, 11/15/2002" "If the Weapon is there (as we believe it to be) we would like to take posession of the Total Store, including Vehicle Registrations, etc, etc, etc."

    The Package was recieved on the 11/19/2002. Why did the Agent testify to the Judge Magistrate 4 days prior? The AGENT knew exactly where the Gun was when he swore the warrant.
    The Alleged Dealer which shipped the Gun, has a false address, is not in the COLT Dealer Locator, not known by the Better Business Bureau, and not known by the State of Florida? Also, NICS had an FFL by his number but the Account had no CODE WORD assigned to it. (you can't do transactions without a CODE WORD).

    This is only part of the story, for I did not know; The ATF had placed a Phone Call (and taped it) practiclly begging me to sell them a Weapon off of the Book), I refused, then a Confidental Informant was sequestered to come in wired, I also refused him then an ATF Agent came in wired, I also refused him.(none of this came out in Court)

    I did not know abbout this until I received the DISCLOSER INFO. The ATF started in the year 2000, and that just happens to be shortly after the time I profoundly Chastized the Mayor and Company for placing $150 Regulatory Fee on Gun Stores (lumping them in with Massage Parlors, Pawn Shops, and Tatoo Parlors). Kentucky State Law states = "No Local Government, Urban County Government, can occupy any part of the Field of Regulation (tranfer, ownership, or possession) of Firearms, Ammunition, or Components of Firearms and/or Ammunition".


    2000 - until present:
    I was and am, researching, our Local Officials, their Ties with Developers, Overbid Contracts, Insider Purchasing, etc, etc, etc. I have a stack of proof on these Fine Gentlemen. (I leeked that fact, in hopes they would straighten up their acts) I also know about the use of DRUGS in our Schools, (which we have 3, less than ten years old and are planning another very soon). I know the Who, How, When, and Where.

    You see: I thought I was up against a Bear, but it turned out to be a Raccoon, Now I am up against a KODIAK BEAR! This Bear; I, and you, are feeding, has all the time in the world to Entrap, all the Avenues are in his favor, he not only LIES, but thinks it is his obligation to do so. Latin; Carnivorus Maximus Annus, he is very resourceful and Powerful, he is not one of us. We are at his mercy when he comes calling.

    "LOCK & LOAD"[xx(]

    Ronnie G. Perkins
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    It is the apathatic attitude of the general population that is the problem.How in **** can you make people care? At work they used to say that I had a bad attitude!Imagine!Now just where would that come from?// Geez!
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Longhunter: A very good question ="How do you make People Care"?

    Absence of Forethought, Common Sense Lacking, Wards of the State, Herd Mentality, = Dumbing down of America!

    Making People Care is no larger Problem than, Making them Understand.

    I don't think it is anyones obligation to "MAKE" people care, nor is it their right to do so.

    To Lead, through Knowledge, Concern, Courage, with no thought of self promotion. To Be An American in Action as well as Spirit. That is what our Founding Fathers did. I must assume this to be the correct way; Otherwise this disscusion would be doubtful if not impossible.


    Being an True American is more than merely a Statement.

    "DEMOCRACY IS NOT SELF SUSTAINING"

    Ronnie G. Perkins
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    I agree,but they do not Want to understand,have the courage etc.They like the way that it is...as long as it does not affect them.It is all about me and sc** you for these types...I do however blieve that we must show by example,and the hope and pray for the best.After we load everthing to full capacity that is!
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    GUNMAN4FUNGUNMAN4FUN Member Posts: 76 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Delta514, I think it is wrong that the ATF would continue to try and get something on you after there initial operation failed. I don't have a problem with a checks and balances type system. To continue to try and get something on you was wrong. They have enough really bad guys to go after instead of an honest law abiding small business owner such as yourself. Just remember that Law Enforcement as a whole is not after you and are not the bad guys. I've been a police officer for 8 years and you can't get anymore pro-gun than I am. I will turn in my badge when and if they ever tell me to start confiscating law abiding citizens firearms. Then I'll join the local resistance group and help fight against a tyrannical government that will not allow free American the right to self protection.

    We should all stand up for ourselves and our beliefs even if they are sometimes unpopular. A free society is one of indiviual self expression and the right to speak out against governmental policy and agenda.

    God Bless America!
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    GUNMAN4FUN: I was in full support of our Local Police Officers. I tried to explain the rapport required between the Public and the Officers which serve. Problem being: Not all Officers volunteer of Civic Duty, (I am sure you have experenced many and have little or no input when it comes to these "Little Men" with "Big Guns" attitudes, which some feel the necessity to project).

    In our County, we have 10 or so small towns. Quite often; an Officer gets fired from the City, only to procure a job (usually Chief of a 2 man force). He then proceeds to SWAT ATTIRE, CLOWN CAR(complete with Bells, Whistles, multiple sirens, antennas/ front to rear) One would expect to see "P.T.Barnum" painted on the side. This Idot is not an Officer to Serve, but a Self Ordained God, not only a Danger to himself, but to anyone he may come in contact with. (Why there are not Psychological Profiles done on these types/is an amazing phenomenom which means = Those which hired him obviously are NUT CASES too.)

    Point being: Law Enforcement comes in many Guises, many degrees of Professionalism. The Sgt. O'Mallys are getting rarer everyday. Fact is: If you don't Love People; you should never consider becoming a Police Officer? nor a Teacher, Doctor, Lawyer! WAIT A MINUTE<<<<<did he say LAWYER? YES! I know it is kinda "Broad Statement" "Profound" possibly? (now someone will suggest hauling me off to the loony bin).

    Safe to say: "There ant nothing bettern a "Good Cop", nothing worse than a "Bad" one.

    SIR: I do wish to say: I appreciate your attitude and your service, (which gives creedence to the idea of Cloning). I do hope you maintain that attitude, it may be tested in the, not too distant future.

    Which brings me to the Infamous ~ ATF. How or Where do they Manufacture these "Boys From Brazil"? All being "Anti-Constitution", Pro Gun (their Gun). Are they Cloned from GOATS? (All have a Hardhead and a Stinking *! ( I can't believe I wrote that).

    YES!Truth is stranger than Fiction. (but don't take my word for it) Ancient Rule, established appx. 974 B.C., ~ZOROASTER: "If it waddles like a Duck, Squawks like a Duck, Looks and Smells like a Duck = More than Likely; It's a DUCK"[;)]

    Hang in there Brother!
    otherwise: "LOCK & LOAD"

    Ronnie G. Perkins
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't honestly belive liberals are ALL the problem. The Department of Homeland Tyranny, the USA Gestapo Akt, the Inkumbent Protektion Akt, and apparently, the Viktim Disarmament Klinton/Swinestein Bill (should it ever make it past the Houses), have been, or will be signed into law by a Republikan.

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There is much "Whoo Doo", about Democrat VS Republican![?]I personally fail to recognise the marked difference between the two. Both Partys are "Power Brokers", both Partys are serving a Higher Power (and that isn't God or The American Public). Both Partys take good care of their own Personal Welfare. Both Partys will Lie, Spin, Cheat, and Manipulate the American People.

    The Old saying: "Republicans want Something for Nothing - Democrats want Nothing for Something" an Independent is the person Washing his own car.

    Silverado, Enron, Tyson, Haliburton, Pensacola Naval Air Base, Twin Trade Towers, Homeland Security ???? Patroit Act! (very catchy phrase). Dumbing Down of America is working. Invasion from the South, gang Bangers setting the Presedence for Law Abiding Americans, and actually Forcing Changes in Our Constitution or Its Interpretation. Liberals (void of Common Sense and always searching for the Easy Fix)ready and willing to give up the Inherited Rights of US as well as their own. (notice: The liberals willing to give up OUR RIGHTS, are usually well secure in their person and Finances). (We never hear of Neil Bush, wonder why?)

    "We" are "Subjects", anyone doubting that; is living in Denial or a Fools Paradise.

    Webster may have it right? ~INSANITY: When the Mind requires Illusions to function. Persons or Person mentally functioning within their Illusions. Does this mean: 90 % of America has become (in effect) Functionally Insane? [^]

    "Lucky the Government; when its People do not Think" Which leaves me waiting for the Next Great Experiment, another attempt at DEMOCRACY?

    "When THE PEOPLE LEAD, Government Follows"

    Ronnie G. Perkins
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Delta514,
    Question= Does this mean:90% of America has become (in effect)functionally Insane?[^]
    Answer= by Websters defintion,YES!!![:(]
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    LONGHUNTER: It has been brought to my attention: (by a person that drinks Scotch Only), WE are Victims of a "Complacency Drug", added to our Drinking Water (in place of Fluoride, now our teeth will fall out = But nobody will care) "Let them Eat Cake". Yes! Even the "Mountain Spring Bottled Water" contains this "Complacency Drug", and we pay a premium for it? (reminds me of the Government we buy?) or should I have said "Pay For", but then maybe it's the Government someone else bought and we now "Pay For"?

    Thomas Jefferson: "Government, Governs Best, which Governs Least"

    Henry David Thoreau: "Government, Governs Best which does not Govern at all"

    Personally: I Am "Self Governing", I find that 'No mater where I go, I'm there' Who better to Govern me? Then again; No mater where I go, the ATF is there! But I do know "Right from Wrong" I am not sure the ATF does. [8D]

    Ronnie G. Perkins
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Me too.

    "Those who want the truth best find it on their own, because no one else wants them to know."

    -(gunphreak)

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man who knows what the law is today can guess what it will be tomorrow. - Federalist 62
    [xx(]
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What shall happen in the instance that our feds decide the time is right to pull off a major take over of the country? If we want to find out, keep doing nothing....

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    OK you two.....you got my attention....So just WHAT do you prupose we do?
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    IAMAHUSKERIAMAHUSKER Member Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can't see a way out of the mess we are in now. I think it has gone to far. What to do about it is a good question, and I for one, would love to know. Seems they have us so busy just trying to get by that we, have no time to keep an eye on them.
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    U.s.M.c. 54U.s.M.c. 54 Member Posts: 28 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds good to me ! how do we get the info on the ATF agents with out calling in the buzzards IE: they start watching you and I just for checking up on them . The more power we give them the more they will take , all in the name of safety ! and I don't mean OURS!! power corrupts , and it's our fault for letting it happen , is it to late ? I DON"T THINK SO..................USMC 54
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    nitrouznitrouz Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ATF folk are like State police, they need to meet a quota.

    If anyone ever wants you to sell a gun under the table at your gun shop, put a gun to their head and yell 'citizens arrest'. Call the local PD.

    Don't give them the luxury of flashing their badge or further head games.

    Don't play around.

    Put a sign up stating 'Absolutely no straw purchases- intent to purchase a weapon for someone else'.

    __tn_jesus2000x.jpg?bfhfIC_AyVsY6G7c

    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
    - Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    I guess that is my point.I do believe keepin tabs on em is great and all.As we do what is the backlash going to be? They won't take it lightly.....I can feel Ruby Ridge.....again.....
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    IAMAHUSKERIAMAHUSKER Member Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There won't be any keeping an eye on them. Unless you are in the club (you must be a lawyer and be able to suck the #ss of others) you will not even be givin the time of day. The only way to keep an eye on them is to be there. Seems that the most honest man can get elected (these days) and after they get into office they lose their minds!!! May be time to go CLEAN HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    WHAT DO WE DO?

    "No Man can Reveal to you aught but that which already lies half asleep in the dawning of your knowledge"


    I will compile all information available to me. I think we all know of a Gun Shop that has been Busted, Harassed, or Forced out of Business; Get names and discriptions.

    Contrary to pouplar belief, "These People" are not Gods. They have Homes, Automobiles, Insurance, They eat out, go to movies, drink at Bars, Have Bank Accounts, etc. They do not live together in a Barracks, and they have all of the Short Comings of the Normal Man, (YES! They do put their Pants on; one leg at a time)of course they put on their Weapon before their shoes and sox, but they do not believe in Democracy or the Constitution. They are the "ENFORCERS".

    They can well afford to be Resolute, considering "We" are paying them to do this, and we have to hold down a Job (8 hours min.) to pay them? In other words; They don't have to work to support anything, their Check is Guaranteed. Sure; They may have a Quota to meet, but with the Resources at their Disposal, coupled with, Entrapment, Lies, and Deceit; Quotas can't be that difficult to meet. But it also helps to have Arbitrary Laws in Play - ERGO: Pre-Ban, Hi-Capacity, Bayonet Lug, Assault Weapon, Grip extending below the stock, Muzzle Brake, Nite Vision, Weapon Intended for War, Law Enforcement Restricted, Short Barrel on a Rifle, Long Barrel on a Pistol, Armour Piercing, Weapons of Mass Destruction [?] All of these things are not a Problem to Joe Average. You know what is a Major Problem for Mr.Joe Average? Government Gun Grabbers, and a Socialistic Hierarchy that is scared of its People. Using any Means available to Control Its People = Bosnia, Croatia, Pre War Germany, Marcos in the Philipines, Batista in Cuba, Nicaraqua, (this could be a long list, and stretch back 50,000 years). ABITRARY LAWS: Whereas the ENFORCERS are IMMUNE from those same LAWS Invoked upon "ITS PEOPLE" (no longer; "THE PEOPLE")

    IF THAT ISN"T A POLICESTATE?will someone please tell me "WHAT IS"?

    "IF NOT FOR THE GUNS WE ALREADY HAVE, WE WOULD HAVE NEVER KNOWN LIBERTY, NOR WOULD WE HAVE IT NOW" please read "Rules by which a Great Empire May be Reduced"
    B. Franklin ~ 1773
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Um not to be slow or anything but just where would I find that writing?Surprised I missed that one,not much out here in the pucks...maybe its online??Want you to know that I do listen and think about this a lot.And say here I will say it in print;I AM NOT ATF<LAW ENFORCMENT OF ANY KIND,or even a security guard...not that you all can believe it anyhow.[:(]But I wanted to say it at least.
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    LONGHUNTER: If you are talking about Ben Franklins writing; I would suggest Go to ~ "Ask Jeeves"~ on your computer, and find Ben Franklins Letters, Or Search "American Prose and Poetry"; Edited by Norman Foester, Houghton Mifflin Company

    Then Look Up: "The Federalist Papers"

    "Jeffersons Inaugural Address"

    "The Framing of the Declaration"

    "The Crisis" ~Thomas Paine~

    First and foremost; "The Constitution of the United States of America" - *Bill of RIGHTS*

    But there is one Man which gets less than half of the Credit coming to him. The Gentleman is well versed, and has an innate understanding of things/Men, as they were, and a Great Foresight of things Portended. Seldom read and seldom Quoted; We know him as: "The Father of Our Country". The man was suggested to be KING, he refused and suggested "President", his desire to establish Liberty for all Men, far exceded his desire for Power. For that one thing alone; George Washington, unknowling Ranked Himself at the Top of the List of "The Great Men of History", Perhaps the Greatest Man the World has ever known.


    If compared to Karl Marx, Hannibal, Genghis Khan, Julius Caesar, Agamemnon, Attila, Napoleon, William the Conqueror, etc. there truly is no comparsion. George Washington took a Hand full of men against Insurmountable Odds, and Accomplished the "IMPOSSIBLE", and why? By his own Definition: To Build a Nation, where no Nation had existed before, a Nation of Freedom & Liberty, a Nation where all me are Created Equal, actknowledging "Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness".


    This is "OUR" Inheritance, and will serve us well, but only if: We are true to it and serve it well, never forgetting our YESTERDAY while LOOKING toward Tomorrow.

    Ronnie G. Perkins
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Delta, Thank you and I will.Looks like I will be reading awhile.I am moved by your..um..enthusiasim(for lack of a better word)on this subject(s). I wish more floks were as concerned about what is happening in this country.Materialism has taken over.[xx(]To many worried about how many toys they (need). It is my belief that God(or whomever you believe in)can and will supply our true NEEDS.First we must be willing to help ourselves.The key is NEEDS,not wants,or wishes but needs...I will be reading,I again thank you for the info.
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Keep informing people. There are a whole bunch of people learning the truth on a regular basis. When that number becomes high enough, then the real fight will begin.

    I'm still trying to fight the soft war.

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    RAISED IN THE LATE 50'S AND EARLY 60'S; Policce Officers were not allowed to carry (what was then known as), "Dumb Dumb Bullets", It was considered InHumane to shoot a Citizen (be they criminal or not)with an expanding Bullet. I personally don't recall Local Police Carrying Pump Shotguns.

    The "CITIZEN" could carry anything he/she desired, the "Citizen" came first and Law was there to Serve. At 12 years old, I carried a rifle or shotgun down the streets of my hometown, (heading for the woods to do a little Ground Hog or Squirrel hunting, and was very proud to be able to treat the family to a meal that I had provided).

    We had appx four Police Officers Total, in a town of 8,600. Now! We have 50 City Officers in a town of 16,000. These Officers have the Best Equipment Available. The Town has approximately 180 vehicles and 183 employees. ( This does not include Sheriff and Deputys, State Police in the Area, or Constables).

    The Sheriffs Department and the City Police are using two entirely different freqencies, The New Dispatch Building (911 as they prefer to call it) Not very Large, Masonary with Tin Roof, had a cost over run of $198,000, (they forgot to bid the telephone system?) The County Attorney has inherited the Old (but not long ago remodled) Health Department Building and given $600,000 to remodel it to fit his needs, ( but since has Balloned to $1.2 Million).


    Now! If Local, State, Federal Government and Governors, are stealing at such a Great Pace? Why would they have any reason to want America Disarmed???? No! It can't be a Guilty Conscious, ( there is NO Conscious to feel Guilty), Perhaps it is: Fear of Retribution by The American People? Why do most Police Agencys (Local to Federal) have Assault Weapons, and Most Officers have them in their Cruisers" Fieinstein and Clinton agreed; These are "Weapons of War", so if I understand their deduction; "WHY ARE OUR POLICE ARMED AS WARRIORS"?
    Why are All Law Officers afforded the "Rights" to which we, as "CITIZENS", are denied?

    Remember the Law past just a few years back; "Anyone Found Guilty of Spousal Abuse would be denied the right to carry a weapon or own a weapon." ??????? That Law was changed quickly; In stead of Gaining the 10,000 Police Officers, Bill Clinton Threatened us with, we would actually lose 20,000.

    NOW! Law Enforcement; In performance of their Job are allowed to Carry while on Duty - huh? - But you give them the Automobile to take HOME, so as to be constantly "ON DUTY".

    Everything points to one thing! Our Leaders have been proven to Lie, Cheat, Waste, Start Wars, Insider Trading, have Homosexual Relationships with their Pages, Seduce Interns even Experiment on the American People to which they owe allegiance. Not to Mention, Making a Cat House of the White House. Is this not a total lack of respect for the American Public?

    If You were stealing constantly from your Neighbor and your Neighbor was getting suspicious and weary of your actions; Would you not prefer him to be Defenseless and if within your Power, Make him so?

    For awhile now; People have said "The average Citizen is afraid of the Goverment", I say; "The Reverse is true". After all, we have not gone too Great Effort to Disarm Our Government"! [V]

    Ronnie G. Perkins
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    Delta514Delta514 Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Reason for the Hispanic Migration and the False Impression Given: The Borders Cannot be Completely Patroled.

    The Reason I see: The 10,000,000 (possibly more) apathetic additions to the population; DILUTION of the 50% of Americans Left, which are truely Concerned about America. To Break the ACID BASE down to near being inconsequential. [:(!]

    Ronnie G. Perkins
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Got my first gun when I was 11.It to was a Stevens 20 ga. single.It is Still in my closet.Not enough $ in the world to buy that one.I raked,weeded,carried,anything for the $ to pay it off.When I did ,and dad made sure I paid for it all he and I went to the post picked it up and he rewarded me by buying the 1st box of shells.Long time ago now but a lesson well learned....That 20 cost a whopping 23.00 used. Seemed like a whole bunch of $ at the time.....
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    poppgunpoppgun Member Posts: 18 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I believe that eventually all guns will be confiscated and anyone found with a gun will be a felon. Didn't F.D.R confiscate all gold coin and give it to the banks????? and he was looked on as the savior of the people.(FDR didnt do anything for our family. Actually Hitler's actions enabled my father to get a job.) THE GOVT WILL CONFISCATE OUR GUNS FOR GOOD OF THE PEOPLE. If the government wants to do so I can actually do anything it wants.They can create incidents that will cause the majority of the populace to DEMAND gun confiscation. THEY WILL DO IT FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE. There are not enough citizens that really believe as we do. There are not enough of us to really influence the GOVT to such an extent that will reverse the current trend.
    I could be wrong!!! I will probably not live to see it happen!!! It will happen so slowly that the average citizen will not realize it.
    No media will sound the alarm. Most citizens will be satisfied with their SUV ; MTV ;BIG MAC; SURROUND SOUND; FAVORITE INTERTAINMENT PERSONALITY and/or things of that ilk to be bothered with inalienable rights.
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    there are ALWAYS exceptions to every rule...A few will hold out and yup if caught will be felons.Oh well. Let try to come here and take em.There are more households here With than without.And a bunch of very independant minded people. I do however see it getting ever so slowly watered down...[:(]
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