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Gun Bans in Workplace

Salvage33Salvage33 Member Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭✭✭
How many of us work in an environment where it is against the "company/corporate policy" to carry a concealed weapon? Ever wonder just how safe you really are? My current workplace has such a policy, and even went so far as to post the "gun ban" posters on the doors and windows. I talked with my "manager" about it, and he said that they had to stay up, it was "policy." I reiterated that it was a green light to some "bad guy(s)" that if they wanted to rob the place, and perhaps even kill us in the process, that the sign was a signal to them that they could proceed undetered, and with full knowledge that they would not be met with armed resistance, and could do what ever they wanted.

A few weeks later, one of the vice president's visited our branch, and asked if we had any questions. I asked about the policy of not being able to protect ourselves in case of robbery/attack by criminals. Let me note here that we handle a large amount of cash on an almost daily basis. His reply was that it was the 'corporate policy' and that it was in place to protect the people who worked there from each other. I almost laughed out loud. At that point I told him that his "corporate policy" had forced me to leave a letter in my safety deposit box stating that IF I was killed/injured due to a hold up or a co-worker, and I was unable to protect myself or co-workers, that my family was to sue them. I went further, explaining to him, that by posting the signs he was actually promoting an unsafe work place, and he/the corporation was now legally liable for my well being at work. He made a few notes and went away. Less than two weeks later a memo from our corporate office came down to remove all the "gun ban" signs.

We are still forbidden to carry a concealed hand gun, and we're not even supposed to have them in our private vehicles which are parked on company property. However, living in Louisiana, the state law says that our vehicles are "extensions of domicile" meaning that we can have a loaded weapon in our vehicle. A 'don't ask, don't tell' policy is now in place, at least where I work.

It was a small victory, but it's still a victory. How many others out there face the same situation? What can you do about it?

Feed back is requested.



An armed society is a polite society.

Comments

  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Salvage33: I salute you for what you did.

    Quote "When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions."
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    AMAZING;
    Once in awhile,sanity breaks out in the hinterlands !!

    I work on an airport.Federal law.Taking a gun to work would be 20 years,I suppose...and suing the fedgov. over a little thing like loss of life ain't in the books,I don't think.And changing it isn't going to happen,either.We have tried.

    God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
  • pickenuppickenup Member, Moderator Posts: 22,361 ******
    edited November -1
    Sorry I can not help you. We own our own business. We make the rules. Guns are Ok to carry.

    The higher-ups in your company probably researched it a little, and found out you were right. Trying to avoid a legal problem down the road, had the signs removed.


    The gene pool needs chlorine.
  • Salvage33Salvage33 Member Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm sure their legal department was queried, and were told that the company does, indeed, have a fiduciary responsibility for our safety and well being. However, that does not reverse their policy, and the letter is still in my safety deposit box, and the instructions still stand.

    I have consulted an attorney friend, shooter and hunter, and he says that IF something along the lines of being injured or killed without the means to defend myself, the company is definitely liable and subject to civil lawsuit.

    The "suit" will be back in town this coming Tuesday. I think I'll put another bee in his bonnet! [;)]

    John

    An armed society is a polite society.
  • ArmaliteA4ArmaliteA4 Member Posts: 489 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Simply put salvage......ATTA BOY!!!!!!!![:D]
  • schotzi1schotzi1 Member Posts: 307 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    GREAT job salvage 33![:)]

    Be responsible
    Be intelligent
    Be REPUBLICAN
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    bigtire: not trying to ask for more information than you want to give, but is your employer Johnson or Leavenworth or Wyandotte county? Just curious since I live and work in Johnson County.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
  • GhostCatGhostCat Member Posts: 31 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    My Employer has banned firearms on the premises. A couple of years ago, at our sister plant, a former employee came in and killed 2 or 3 people....then killed himself. Since then, NO GUNS ALLOWED!!!!!....

    GhostCat
  • mballaimballai Member Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not all that long ago, my enthusiasm about shooting after work got someone to put two and two together (usually impossible for an anti-gunner) and I was summoned to Human Resources about having a gun at work. I explained what I did, that I was licensed and legal and all that, and they said that was all fine well and good, but I couldn't take a cased, locked and unloaded firearm on the premises. Couldn't be in a car in the parking lot either. There was no policy per se, but this was the rule of the moment. They less than cordially encouraged me to promptly leave the building. All the while telling me that they know that I would never do anything wrong. You know, the case might unlock and the gun might load itself and then run the corridors shooting down coworkers.

    Anyway, I immediately headed for the range, had a great time, bought another gun and figured out my strategy. Let sleeping dogs lie. I shoot after work when I want and keep my mouth shut. The employee who probably complained to HR about my evil activity of decimating bullseyes was let go shortly thereafter.




    Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead
  • Jake_S-83Jake_S-83 Member Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    hey trfox, i thought i heard somebody opening a $12 bottle of water, figured there was a joco somewhere. [:D] my gf is from johnson co. too, im sure it pisses her dad off that i got her drinking grape soda and eating beanie weenies.
  • kaliforniankalifornian Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm in that boat too. All employees are required to sign a policy waiving their right to defend themselves (ie to carry on the premisis). It seems to be an industry standard. It's done to reduce liability, yet I hadn't thought to explore the potential for civil suit as you have done. Very nice idea.

    I wonder how many people can get away with such direct tactics and remain employed? It's a very tempting method.


    http://ynot4free.com
  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 35,088 ******
    edited November -1
    Maybe someone needs to contact Wal*Mart's legal department.

    When CHL passed in Texas, all the Wal*Mart stores put up "NO CARRY" signs. After it was pointed out to them that they just assumed the liability for the safety of all who had to disarm themselves to come in the store, the signs came down.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com the best gun auction site on the Net! Email [email protected]
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by GhostCat
    My Employer has banned firearms on the premises. A couple of years ago, at our sister plant, a former employee came in and killed 2 or 3 people....then killed himself. Since then, NO GUNS ALLOWED!!!!!....

    GhostCat


    Ghostcat: Wouldn't it make more sense for your employer to post a sign saying "No Killing Employees and Mangement Allowed".

    I mean, if signs and prohibations against guns actually worked, that is.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
  • Salvage33Salvage33 Member Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    kalifornian..

    I didn't get in his face about it, I simply pointed out that the "gun ban" sign was merely a signal to "bady guys" that we were unarmed. I approached it from an employee safety angle. And I still work there.[8D]

    Well, the "suit" came back for another visit, and during a lull in the meetings, he looked me up and thanked me for giving him a "heads up" on the corporation's fiduciary responsibility, and asked if I had any other ideas that might further limit their liability. I smiled, then said no, none that they would implement. At lunch, I found out that he is a hunter, and wanted to know about out of state licenses, etc., for my state. I told him where to check, and if he wanted to come hunt, to let me know, I'd take him with me, or point him in the right direction if he didn't want to hunt with me. So we'll see how that works out.

    BTW...he lives in Arizona, and I love to antelope hunt, so maybe I can get him in my duck blind and he can lead me around the flat land in search of the perfect pronghorn. [:D]

    John



    Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not shooting at me!
  • ArmaliteA4ArmaliteA4 Member Posts: 489 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Personally,

    I would keep one somewhere close on a daily basis. If I would ever have to use it at work at least I could possibly avert some problems by employing my weapon. They can fire me later.....at least I will be alive and maybe even more people will be kicking because of my choice.[:D]
  • Salvage33Salvage33 Member Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Armalite

    I keep one in my vehicle at all times...sometimes more. Laws in Louisiana are a bit different than most other places, primarily due to the fact that they are based on Napoleonic Code with a smattering of English Common Law. But it is a gun friendly state. I have three concealed carry permits; one for the parish (county) that I live in, one for the parish across the river, and one for statewide. I had the two parish CCW's prior to getting the statewide, and have maintained them just in case something gets hinky with my statewide renewal.

    And like you, my personal well being supercedes their corporate policy! 'Tis better to be alive and unemployed than to have your dependants collecting your life insurance checks.

    John

    Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not shooting at me!
  • ArmaliteA4ArmaliteA4 Member Posts: 489 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Salvage33,

    My wife and I both carry. As do alot of characters with bad intentions.. I figure my families lives and my own supercede ANY political crap they can throw at me. Period. I'm with you man,carry and be prepared or be at their mercy on your knees[;)]
  • 2gun2gun Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    im ot sure if i follow this..... the employer banned guns because someone(ex employee) shot the place up, isnt this closing the barn door a little late even for a liberal? and as a common sense move it doesnt help either since the next ex employee with an ax to grind will have advance knowledge that till the cops get there he has free target practice? this will reduce employer liability?how?

    if its forseeable that a ex employee might return with a gun the employer is 100% liable under gross negligence laws

    happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
  • Salvage33Salvage33 Member Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    2gun

    The main thrust of my initial post was that any workplace that bans employees from having a weapon at their disposal for SELF DEFENSE has a fiduciary responsibility to protect you.

    Since most companies have adopted a "politically correct" position concerning firearms, should something happen to you, ie., being shot by a robber or even a co-worker, they are civilly responsible for you not being able to protect yourself.

    And a lot of places have gun ban signs (the ones with a pistol in profile circled with a slash through it) or a sign that says "no firearms allowed on premises" all this does is signal the bad guys that they have free rein to do what they want without fear of immediate armed response/reprisal.

    Hope this clears up your confusion.

    John

    A friend will post your bail. A good friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying, "man that was fun!"
  • 2gun2gun Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    let me clarify my confusion slightly, its all well and good that they have a fiduciary responsibility to me if i am injured or killed but i dont like the idea of being injured or killed.its bad for my health.the idea of being shot at and being unable to return fire doesnt sound good and it always seems that a number of people get killed while beig unarmed when a ex employee goes on a rampage.

    the fact that my heirs may get a large settlement from the insurance carrier of the workplace does no good while i am in the ground or sucking d50w through a straw in rehab.

    i also noticed that as a condition of employment i can be required to sign away my right to self defense. can they also require me to accept racial discrimination as a condition of employment?

    i am preaching to the chior here but the guy that forced the policy of no self defense is not going to be the hero who will take one for the team and charge the disgruntled ex employee to disarm him. heck hes probably got a locked office to go to.

    happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Excellent point 2gun.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
  • cougar_xingcougar_xing Member Posts: 27 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    hey guys... I wonder if someone got run over by a car in the parking lot. Will they ban cars?
    I can not help but think if there were just one armed american on each of those planes that day back in september if the outcome would have been the same.

    Bob in new york where the judge/god decides no-one needs an unrestricted. We have all this crime! The next county up where you can get unrestricted has little crime. Judge??? That just does not make sense!!! Or does it!




    You might me a redneck if: Your wife says she is game! and you shoot her!
  • Salvage33Salvage33 Member Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Cougar Xing

    Refer to the post above yours from trfox...about constitutional rights and sometimes rights.

    Don't get me started about leftist/liberal/communist/wacko/meglomaniacal judges. [;)]

    John

    A friend will post your bail. A good friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying, "man that was fun!"
  • gap1916gap1916 Member Posts: 4,977
    edited November -1
    Alot of the posting have to do with one of two major issues. One being the insurance isdustry. The want to make sure that they are not litigated by a populace that says you did not protect me aginst my co workers or a patron who by law was allowed to have a CCW. Now law breakers by definition we can not be litigated aginst. It is a bean counter mentality. A CCW may save a life or more. We would rather some one die than to be litigated aginst.

    The other issue is the corporate philosophy. I mirrors the insurance line of thinking. Corporate management knows what is best and the law abiding workers can not possably know what is best for them thats why there is management.

    In both cases there is a lack of trust for the common worker.

    My 2 cents [8D]

    Greg
    Former USMC
    A N G L I C O
  • usar1usar1 Member Posts: 405 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Where i work they had the same policy about weapons on Company grounds and i got fired because i had a handgun in my personal vehicle, (my EXwife called them and told them that i carried all the time) I have a CCW. But after talking with the head honchoes they decided to rehire me.

    NRA LIFE MEMBER.
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