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NRA AND GOA COULD DO BETTER
Bamavol
Member Posts: 966 ✭✭✭✭
Neither the courts nor the politicians will protect the 2nd admendment if public opinoin goes against gun owners. The NRA and GOA focus on lobbing the national politicians and communicating with gun owners. This will not work if we lose public support, including non-gun owners. I would suggest a public advertising campaign or a TV series like "Most Wanted". Show actual cases where an armed citizen made a difference. Also, train at least one person in every media market that can reply on camera or on the radio with good information to every news story about guns. Both the NRA and the GOA do good work. I just think that we have to get the message out more at the local level.
Bamavol
Bamavol
Comments
Bamavol
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
It would be good to do a test case on a small scale to measure the response, but even a one city test would not be a small scale.
Thanks for the response.
Bamavol
Here's the really wild part, while the manager of the restaurant could "identify" the weapons, he could not give anything past the fact that they wore masks. Something fishy here?????
Point is, every time the news media broadcasts bogus info, let them know that they screwed up. Be polite, be tactful (hard for me sometimes) and be persistent. Educate them, so that they will not broadcast/print bogus, incorrect information.
John
A friend will post your bail. A good friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying, "man that was fun!"
What have you been doing up to now to help with the gun rights war that we are losing?
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
You'll never get a pro-gun ad on most tv stations (other than Outdoor Life Network... good station by the way...They even aired the machine gun competition).
Can anybody tell me what the JPFO is currently doing to educate the masses?
I recommend you check out the Gun Owners of America. Unlike the NRA, they are no compromise.
That reminds me, the machine gun competition should be coming up again pretty soon. Did you see last years episode on TV? I still have not put an "upper" on the "lower" that I received, when I won last years machine gun match. Maybe some day. [B)]
The gene pool needs chlorine.
To be more specific, you can read the countless criticisms of the NRA that have been posted on this Gunrights forum. And I don't usually talk trash myself about ANY progun rights group because if I do I am spending time that would be better spent HELPING one or two of the progun right groups that I strongly support; plus by trashing an even moderately effective progun rights group I am effectively helping and sideing with such people as Sarah Brady, Charles Schumer, Ted Kennedy, Diane Whinestein, Handgun control Inc., etc.etc.
But this morning I guess I will just violate my own policy. The GOA has been in existance since the early 1970's and has bragged about being "no compromise". But all during that approximately 30+ years apparently the anti-gun groups and politicians have not been effected very much by that bragging statement of "no compromise" because during that 30 years we have suffered hundreds of anti-gun owner laws. The most serious loss was in 1993 when Bill KLinton passed his so-called "assault weapons ban" and in one stroke we lost more gun rights that we had ever lost at one time. So if GOA is "no compromise" I wonder how such a law was allowed to be passed. Could it be that most progun organizations are doing the best they can BUT THEY CAN'T CONTROL EVERYTHING?
And unlike the NRA, the president of GOA, Larry Pratt, placed his son in a high level position within GOA. With all the pro-gun people in the USA it is DOUBTFUL that his son was the most qualified for that position. And I cannot say if his son is drawing a good salary and benefits BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY FINANCIAL ACCOUNTING DISTRIBUTED BY GOA.
BTW, I am a loyal dues-paying member of GOA (as well as other progun rights organizations such as the NRA) and in the name of self-preservation I rarely trash any half-way good pro-gun rights group. I guess this morning I am just getting sick and tired of the whining about how the NRA isn't "perfect". Believe me, the whiners aren't perfect either, just as I'm not perfect.
JMHO
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
How much could it be to make a 30 second pro-gun TV commercial that airs a few times a day? Maybe $1000 a week? How about a radio commercial? If the furniture store down the street can do it then I think the NRA, GOA, or even a local shooting club could probably foot the bill for this.
The pro-gun movement does not seem to be very media saavy. Sure there are probably stations that would refuse to run this content, but there has to be at least one TV station in every major market that would run pro-gun content.
JMHO,
WW
"...That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state."
-The Debates in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Virginia, on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution. June 27, 1788.
Wounded Wolf, my belief is that the NRA, by being a national gun rights groups (not a strong local group with a strong, concentrated local presence) is stretched very, very thin and basically runs on pennies. And apparently they feel they have to almost beg for donatations (face it, people are cheap) and apparently those mailings they send out are working or surely they would not be stupid enough to keep doing it.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
To salvage33: You have provided a good example of the kind of action that I had in mind. How much would it cost for the NRA to field a team of media trained volunteers so that every major city would have a savage33?
To dsmith: I do not know much about GOA, but I bet that the non-gun public has never even heard of them. Also, we must be careful, sometimes the "no compromise" attitude makes non-gun people uncomfortable and plays to the idea that we, gun owners, are all a bunch of "dangerous gun nuts". This is not helpful.
To all others: I went to a Friends of the NRA meeting and I heard about hunting and gun safety training, but not one word about gun owners rights. That is when I knew that the NRA had a problem. I am still a member of the NRA. What they do, they do good. I just think that they could get better results if they had a shift in focus.
I opened this topic to see if any others noticed this problem. Thanks again for your response.
Bamavol
To tr fox: I don't know that it matters,but I have given money to the NRA ( dues and extra contributions) and to candidates that support the 2nd admendment. And I vote. Is that OK with you?
To all others: I went to a Friends of the NRA meeting and I heard about hunting and gun safety training, but not one word about gun owners rights. That is when I knew that the NRA had a problem.
Bamavol
Yes Bamavol, it DOES matter. There are approximately 64 million gun owners in the USA but only a tiny fraction of those owners do much, or anything, to keep their gun rights. So with these numbers involved, you can safely assume that ANYTIME you see a person (s) talking/writing/posting about guns and gun rights you can bet that most likely they do little in the way of keeping those rights. Apparently you are in the small group that actually does something and I salute you for it and it is definately "O.K." with me.
In regards to the Friends of the NRA meeting and no words being spoken about gun rights, please be advised tht the FNRA is a non-profit "educational" wing of the NRA. This means to keep the FNRA tax exempt status they must be VERY careful in what activites and statements they make/do. They CANNOT support/sponsor/urge any political canadidate or POLITICAL ACTION. And you know the minute you start advocating gun rights you will quickly have to become political in your speech. There is little room to avoid this and it is not worth the risk of a heavy "fine" (lose of tax exempt status and having to pay income tax on their meager income) to try and talk up gun rights.
owever, I thank you for sharing your FNRA activity with us because it shows to some of the doubters here that the FNRA is out there trying to help the existing hunters/shooters as well as trying to enlist more "soldiers" into the pro-gun army.
Doing activity such as just mentioned is much, much better than some here do in that they spend W-A-Y too much time and energy criticizing the NRA without so much as even one kind or positive word about how much good the NRA does.
JMHO
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
quote:I do not know much about GOA, but I bet that the non-gun public has never even heard of them. Also, we must be careful, sometimes the "no compromise" attitude makes non-gun people uncomfortable and plays to the idea that we, gun owners, are all a bunch of "dangerous gun nuts". This is not helpful.
I think TR and I have tried to emphasize this point at various times, but many folks here seem to have the point of view of not caring what the "non-gun" people think. By "non-gun" I mean people who are not necessarily anti-gun but are just not gun educated, which I believe is a majority of the population.
The way I look at it is a "non-gun" person may not understand my beliefs and I may not feel they are informed about the 2nd Amendment, but we as gun enthusiasts have to be careful how we represent ourselves to these "non-gunners". It is easy to say "screw them", but we are likely to get more of them in a jury box or voting booth than a pro-gunner. When the time comes to protect our gun rights it is our actions that will in part determine how these people vote.
Some folks believe we are past using the system (courts, voting, politicians, etc.) to advance gun rights. However, I am not at the point where I am ready to abandon hope and go to the streets and cause mayhem for this cause. I like to think there is still some hope left for our system.
-WW
"...That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state."
-The Debates in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Virginia, on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution. June 27, 1788.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
quote:
. quote: I am not at the point where I am ready to abandon hope and go to the streets and cause mayhem for this cause. I like to think there is still some hope left for our system.
Two points;
1; "Going to the streets" is the surest way to lose this coming implosion that there could be...One would ONLY GO TO THE STREETS AFTER the breakdown...When the government has proved to one and all its mettle..its' contempt of the Constitution..
2; 'Our System' is no longer what you believe it is at all..having no resemblence to Constitutional law at all..merely the fascade of it,to succor the masses...
The third point...( of the two..)[:D]
Simply that I have never abandoned hope..that viewing the present state of steady erosion of rights and freedoms gives me much hope that the 'leaders' will push even faster towards total control..perhaps even to ordering the 'chip' implanted in the populace...
By being a kinder,gentler NRA ? Um...would that be like the kinder gentler IRS?
True the NRA does do well in education,of gun owners,and those that would own guns.....New hunters etc....This does not it seems educate Joe non gun owner.....Someone enlighten me..
The GOA will be as effective as you our I,US make it.....I had hoped that the NRA would be as well...that HAS NOT been my experiance this last 30+ years. I am not trashing,I am being a realist...
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
When a person tries to enlighten the uneducated about the activities of the NRA, and then gets accused of, "helping and sideing with such people as Sarah Brady, Charles Schumer, Ted Kennedy, Diane Whinestein, Handgun control Inc., etc.etc." Well, that just plain pisses me off. (I cooled off) I am not so easily appeased by being "tolerated."
Putting your faith in, and BLINDLY following ANY organization without knowing what they are doing, is what the "controlling people" want the sheeple to do. I do NOT advocate getting rid of the NRA. Change is the goal we should be shooting for. Writing letters to them, call them (I have/do) let them know your opinion, that "compromise" should not be STANDARD for any newly proposed gun laws. We should be fighting to RESCIND the unconstitutional laws that are already on the books, NOT endorsing them.
If the GOA (and others) had the membership numbers that the NRA did, a few years ago, we MIGHT not have "some" of the UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws that have been passed in recent years. Comparatively speaking, membership numbers are small, in ALL of the gun advocate groups. If all of the gun owners in the U.S. would join any one (or all) of the pro-gun groups, I think we would be an "unbeatable" force.
While I agree with you that we need EVERY progun group we can get. To pay your yearly dues, to ANY of the pro-gun organizations, without keeping up on their activities and actions, is just plain wrong. A watchful eye must be kept on ALL of them. Unquestioning loyalty, is almost as bad as not joining at all. I WILL continue to question them, and when I see them do something that I consider to be wrong, I will call them on it. Join every pro-gun group you can afford. If funds are tight, pick one, ANY one. We need all the help we can get.
P.S. A law was passed recently in this state, that no municipality may make a gun law more strict than state law. We are fighting a battle against Denver (who, because they are a "home rule" city) wants to make gun laws that are more strict than the State gun laws. One of the gun clubs where I shoot donated $25,000 to the legal fund, to help fight this. The NRA MATCHED that $25.000. I have not heard of ANY other pro-gun group that has donated any funds to help. (now you can not say that I never said anything nice about the NRA)
P.P.S. Please provide the link to the NRA's financial statement. I have not been able to find it.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
As you know, I advocate joining (I'm a dues paying member) the GOA AS WELL AS as many other of the few national pro-gun groups as you can afford to join. So, it pays to help ALL pro-gun organizations, but it CAN HURT us to damage some of those organizations; at least in my opinion. Therefore, I don't agree with all the on-going criticism of the NRA. The criticism doesn't HELP the GOA, and can only harm the NRA. So why bother?
And even though you were offended by my post (you are unhappy with my word "tolerate" but what about the other word "respect") regarding you and others, but what about the respect and toleration that I see lacking when as a loyal and dues paying member of the NRA I seem extensive criticism of the NRA and to me I see no good coming from this. What good DOES come for all this criticism?
I do not have a link to the financial records of the NRA.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
People need to understand that some day it is going to come down to one man..and one rifle.
All the fuss and feathers kicked up only DELAYS the inevitable..and spends precious resources in fruitless endeavors..pleading with Congress to OBEY THE CONSTITUTION...for the Lord's SAKE !!!
There are a mulitude of reasons to point out the failings of the NRA....but one big one..I can almost respect those in my face,telling me they despise Motherhood,Apple Pie,and gun ownership....I have absolutely no respect at all for those selling my rights down the river while proclaiming..." You wouldn't have guns at all if it were'nt for us.."
That,my friend is a load of crap.
But I may have said or implied it, and to a degree I still do. The NRA has been in operation for over 100 years. During that time there have always been people and politicians wanting to remove guns from civilian society. But it hasn't happened yet. So ask yourself who/what has been working against the pressure to remove guns from citizens hands. Surely the NRA deserves SOME credit as the GOA, for just one example, DIDN'T EVEN EXIST UNTIL THE EARLY 1970's.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
I believe simply that we have the guns we have..fettered with 22,000 gun laws..because the NRA tells the politicians that there will be a revolution if they ban them all at once.
The above I cannot prove..the actually words whispered into ears..
I can and have proved that the NRA for many years has worked hand in glove with the government to force down the throats of gun-owners one gun law after another..always more then we want to give..never enough to 'go to the streets' over....this smacks of inside information..because the politicians are so out of touch with the common man..they don't have a clue.
I futher believe that postponing the inevitable is highly injurious to freedom..that 1968 ought to have been a deadline.The NRA ought to have taken a stand..and if we lost..then so be it.We all could have stopped pretending that we live in freedom.
God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
As many,many NRA supporters have said right here,the changes should/could come from within its membership.....So then if these members are now seeing that it is all not what its purported to be perhaps SOMEONE will start sometghing from within to help the changes happen,and find that they have some members behind them.
The NRA is a political organization ,and as such should listen to the people that put them in the "powerful"position that they are in.
The days for blind faith following are gone,we must educate ALL,and those amoung our own rank and file (gunowners) need to be first so we may ALL eduvate the non- gun owners.....or its over for ALL of us.....Period.Just my views my friend,and an attempt to explain them.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"