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Any good arguments against Gun-Control?
PeterV
Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
Are there any good arguments against gun-control? When I asked this question at http://p078.ezboard.com/bguncontrol4778 most people there seemed to think that gun control was a good thing.
Comments
Every living American knows that guns can help us when a peaceful citizen is attacked with violence. For example, who does EVERY citizen call when they experience violent criminal attack? They call a man/woman wearing a GUN! AKA the police.
So any argument that ALL guns should be outlawed is a lie, because no citizen in their right mind wants to disarm the law enforcement agencies becasuse each and every one of us might need that armed LEO sometime to save our sorry butt.
But once you admit that guns can accomlish good, then you have to admit that many, many times the police are not avilable quick enough to prevent a violent crime. So the next logical step is for peaceful, lawful citizens be the one to also own and carry guns. To deny this in the face of all the violent crime and violent crime victims is to delegate unarmed citizens to the role of helpless victim. This is not right nor just since those very citizens are the very source of power (not rights, because government has not rights; only power) that allow any and all governments to function. Therrefore it would be especially unfair for those governments to deny lawful citizens the right to have the proper tools and equipment to protect and defend themselves onn the many, many occassions WHEN THE POLICE CANNOT DO IT!
End of rant.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
In my home state of KS, a citizen cannot legally carry a gun when they leave home. So visualize two people. #1, me, a lawful citizen who wants to carry my handgun because I have to travel to a bad part of town to pickup my daughter after she gets off work. #2 person is a violent criminal with a long history of violent crimes and therefore doesn't obey ANY laws that he/she doesn't feel like obeying. Say person #2 and I meet at my daughter's work place and person #2 plans on robbing me and kidnapping my daughter. Who do you think is going to be carrying a concealed gun; #1 or #2?
Restrictive gun laws are only obey BY THE ALREADY LAWFUL! Such laws are NOT obeyed by outlaws! Why is this so hard for the leftys to understand?
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
The final analysis..to prevent the loss of some or all of the above may well some day depend on YOU..and a gun.
Depending on a paid individual to protect what is yours is the mark of a coward.
What the Founders really intended with the Second Amendment,however..was a roadblock in the way of tyranny.
A well regulated Militia, being neccessary to the security of a free state, The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, Shall not be infringed.
JBoss......Fear No Fish/peace through superior firepower/The gun manufacturers are not making a dangerous product.
Bad parents are.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
Unarmed men are slaves.
Disarmed men are dead.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
"Followers of Christ, be armed."
The REAL question is...is there any good arguments FOR gun control ?
I have NEVER heard any..save for one.
Makes the world safe for dictators and human butchers and criminals.
Young gun-savy women gets off work late at night and has to walk a deserted parking lot to her car. A rapist/murder has been watching her for days and now makes his move by jumping out from behind a parking lot pillar intent upon attacking her. Being an aware young woman, she has tried to remain lawful and has done her best to prepare for such an undesired situation. Her hand has been in her pocket/purse all along and at the sight of the attacker she pulls, and is ready to use, her:
#1 cell phone to call 9-1-1. (attacker with his victim will be gone from the scene in 3 minutes. Police will arrive in 5 minutes)
#2 Pepper spray (wind is strongly blowing towards her plus she hasn't remembered to check the functioning of the pepper spray for over one year)
#3 A copy of the city/state/federal law which prohibits such an attack and provides for strong punishment for doing so (she hopes to deter attacker by waving this law in his face).
#4 A stun gun with she will have one, and only one, chance to subdue her attacker. But she must get within grabbing distance between her and her attacker in order to deliver the high violtage jolt.
#5 HER OWN HANDGUN WHICH SHE IS READY, WILLING AND ABLE TO USE. And which can be used at a distance in any weather or lighting conditions. And probably merely by displaying the gun her attacker will turn and flee the scene looking much like a scared rabbit (this is after he cra*s in his pants).
Now, PeterV, with you being the cosmic "director" of this scene, exactly which item will you place in that innocent woman's hand with which to defend herself?
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
All rights come from the people. The government CANNOT exercise a right that the people themselves do not grant, and thus control.
In addition, every man is born with the right to self-defense. No party (including the police, military, etc.) has the right to a monopoly on the use of force.
Statistically, broad gun ownership in a society will equate to a lower crime rate. In the United States, locals with the highest gun ownership are also the safest. Washington D.C., where all guns are banned, is one of the most dangerous cities in the nation. Abroad, just look at the surge in violent crime in England and Australia since the government disarmed the law-abiding people. Violent crime of nearly every kind has skyrocketed in those two nations. England is now MUCH more dangerous statistically than the United States when it comes to assault, theft, and rape.
Finally, the society or the collective can never trump individual rights. After all, what is society but a collection of individuals? By corrupting the rights of some individuals, you will create a favored class by default. The balance of power will be lost, and a free society will eventually cease to exist.
"The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long..."
Visit
http://www.cafepress.com/RightToBearArms for great Second Amendment Merchandise!
The best argument against gun control (let us define this as being the disarmanent of the general populace) is that the most dangerous criminal is and has always been armed with the latest, most efficient weaponry available at any point in human history, usually paid for by taxes collected from the populace they supposedly protect and end up slaughtering. That criminal is government. There are plenty of websites that can show you some of the most savage despots in human history and their beliefs on weapons control, from Adolf(ph?) Hitler through Mao Tse Tung, and the masses they have eliminated because they oppsed their plans for Utopia.
"Love forced upon someone at the barrel of a gun is rape."
Peter W. Wickham, Jr.
AkA The Ol' Grey Ghost
"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it."
Gen. Robert E. Lee,Army of Northern Virginia, C.S.A. Deo Vindice
No.
There are no good valid arguments. We as a country shoot holes in their whiny arguments every time they speak of it.
As a matter of fact, we as a people are speaking out against gun kontrol. There has been a reversal of laws and new policies that are diametrically opposed to all liberal 'wisdom'. And we are turning out right.
So, don't thank your politicians for these wonderful turns of events. Thank yourselves for turning on the heat under them to do the will of the people.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
"Followers of Christ, be armed."
Good Gun Control is hitting your target. Better Gun Control is hitting your target repeatedly. The Best Gun Cotrol is hitting your target and only your target. - a motto a bunch of other officers and I worked together during a SWAT Marksman School (we [in my case was] were Marksman not Snipers; a good Sniper can tell the difference and so can we).
"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it."
Gen. Robert E. Lee,Army of Northern Virginia, C.S.A. Deo Vindice
I believe in gun control. Use both hands and firmly squeeze on the exhale, that's gun control.
Ok, enough of the bumpersticker logic.
Seriously, I grew up believing in gun registration and mandatory safety training and certificates. BUT now that I've gotten older I still agree with proper safety training. But no longer believe in registration. The whole point to the right to bear arms isn't to go kill Bambi or even to necessarily protect oneself from an attacker. Instead it's to be used as a check and balance to government abuse. That the people are in charge, and that if the government should need to be, that we could throw a revolution, again.
A simple argument against gun control is Germany in the 30's. They had gun control. And when they chose to, they knew where the guns were and confiscated them.
Oh, but it can't happen here. Why not?
imay not know it all.....but at least I know that!
I want to say something based off tr fox's statement - think about it closer to home, this woman is YOUR girlfriend, YOUR wife, YOUR daughter, which would you want her to have?
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Gun control serves no purpose whatsoever than to reduce the number of law abiding citizens owning guns. Groups like the Brady Bunch will say that gun bans have reduced gun ownership in foreign countries. Correct, but deceptive. Gun bans in foreign countries have eliminated law abiding gun owners, and have given the illegal gun owners permission to roam the country for victims.
I just saw on the Communist News Network (CNN), an episode of Larry King Live with the "Subway Vigilante". He claims the people he shot were shot in self defense. He was not convicted, because there was no evidence it was not a self defense. The court ruled that he was allowed that he was justified in using his gun, but ruled that he wasn't allowed to carry it, and therefore sentenced him to 8 months in prison. Same thing would probably happen in England, Australia, etc. Shoot violent criminal in self defense. Go to prison on firearms violation. Have a nice day, you're now the criminal.
Say a couple of robbers armed with knives attack you along with your wife and child. The robbers obviously intend to rob and hurt you. You pull your "illegal" handgun and shoot/kill one of the robbers but the other robber is able to knock the gun from your hand. your wife picks up your gun and shoots/kills the other robber. Courts don't charge either you or your wife for the shootings, but send you both to jail for several months for having an illegal handgun. Now both you and your wife are "criminals" with a record and you have lost a lot of rights for the rest of your life. This will have a negative effect not only on you and your wife, but on your children.
BTW, while you and your wife were serving time in jail, your children had to be placed in the care of others.
Sure this example is a little extreme, and it has to be in order for me to try and make a quick but honest point. The way things are headed, in America and especially in other countries, it COULD HAPPEN.
If anyone thinks it couldn't happen I would like to hear their opinion.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Gun prohibitionists fail to realize that crime would go up, and the outcome of the 2.5 million cases would have been different if they had their way.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Suppose you walk out of your house with your family, and you are confronted with a man armed with a knife. He wants to take something you have. What do you do?
Most people will answer "Give it to him".
What if what he wants is your child?
You'll leave them speechless.
"We must all fear evil men, but there is another kind of fear we must fear most...and that is the indifference of good men"
Arguments for gun control? People might say that guns are dangerous and should be taken from everyone, but some of the same people say that George W is a communist tyrant and we live in a dictatorship with no rights. How they would feel safer without a gun, I have no idea
"We must all fear evil men, but there is another kind of fear we must fear most...and that is the indifference of good men"
I say lets buy them a ticket to China!
No guns there! I wonder if they can handle NOT having the RIGHT to
complain about anything?
Geo
Lesson 1. Never EVER insinuate that gun kontrol is a failure. It actually is doing exactly what it was intended to do (and that isn't a good thing, either). They trick you into admitting that it isn't doing the trick, so they can say, "We need more!".
Solution. Tell them it is counterproductive (because it is) Prove to them that it isn't working. Lines like (and make them short and sweet, too) Gun kontrol kills people. Gun kontrol is racist, sexist, and classist. I don't support those things.
Lesson 2. Do we have enough gun kontrol, or not enough. This is a trap, because the answer is c. We need to start rolling that crap back, because it is counterproductive.
Lesson 3. They tell you "Guns kill!" Yeah so what? I've never seen a gun grow arms and legs and go on killing sprees, before. People are who use them for killing sprees, which is exactly why everyone else should be equipped to gun him down.
Lesson 4. They tell you, "Registration is a key crime fighting tool." No it isn't, it's a Gestapo tool used for genocide. Gun kontrol is never about crime, unless we're talking about crimes committed by the government against the people.
Lesson 5. You win the argument, they call you a racist. Don't back down, now. You know as well as I do this is false, but do you know who the true racist is? Well, go on ahead and tell'em who the real racist is. They are. Democrats have done more to disarm blacks than any other group in American history, and as a result, more than 3000 of them were lynched as helpless victims, disarmed by a law that ensured they would be victims. Here is a catchy line for you: Am I the only one disgusted by the fact that the NAACP and the KKK have the exact stand on disarming blacks?!?
Lesson 6. Call them liars. You can prove your point, have them prove theirs. When they respond with "why should I", you got em. Tell them, "because you can't, liar!"
Lesson 7. We need to enforce the laws on the book??? No, we have too many of them. Don't go giving substance to liberal policies, because if you do, you slit your own throat.
That is all for now....
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
"Followers of Christ, be armed."
ZSD
"You dance with the Devil the Devil does'nt change pops,the Devil changes you"-Max California
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
"Followers of Christ, be armed."
How many times have you gone to a range and saw an idiot a few lanes away who you knew should not have that AK in their hand. It is WAY too often that I see this. It scares the crap outta me to know that these boneheads have possession of such a dangerous piece of equipment, especially 20 yards away from me and my son.
Just two weekends ago I was at the range and two lanes down were two adult males and two kids with at least 8 guns combined (assault, sporter and handguns) who hadn't the slightest idea how to handle them safely, much less able to hit a target. They were shooting at a 24x24 target set at 25 yards with a bushmaster and hit it maybe twice. They even had a scope on the AR. I made sure between relays that neither my son or myself went down range to check the targets unless they had every weapon down and safe. I even casually went over after the range officer to make sure all actions were empty and open.
I truly believe that no one should be permitted to own a gun unless they prove some level of responsibility and proficiency. I am in no way in favor of gun registration but licensing, yes! You do not give someone the keys to a car unless they prove that they know the rules and are at least somewhat proficient. I realize that this would not make things completely safe, but it would enact some level of seriousness in a serious sport. I went to a local gun show and bought a 91/30 Mosin Nagant and 500 rounds of surplus steel cored armor piercing ammo easily. I wondered about the person who had never handled a weapon OR had the foggiest idea of the proper safety techniques doing the same.
I live in Florida. I have known people with carry permits who have passed the few hour class and still did not know how to handle the weapon. And their attitude was evident that they did not respect the power that they had.
I will fight to preserve my right to own my guns, but I also feel that as responsible gun owners we must do the best we can to make sure the boneheads don't screw it up for us. Every time some moron buys a gun and does something stupid with it just puts another nail in the gun control coffin. There are millions of responsible gun owners in America and a handful of idiots who own guns, that's all the anti-gun zealots need to fuel their fight. Many of my friends are non-gun owners and are ignorant to this fact. They see the news where a bonehead left his loaded pistol out for a 5 yo to get and shoot a friend. They don't realize that for the one idiot, there are 100,000 responsible citizens with their guns safely stored.
The general public wants to feel safe, this is a fact. If responsible gun owners do not help make them feel safe then others will make them afraid and thus gain support. We will lose in the end. And any arrogant attitudes will only further support their efforts.
We can take the wind outta their sails by taking control of the wind, not the sail.
Shadow83
I have great love for humanity, it's just the people I can not stand.
Problem with displaying or living that compromise is that it always seems like the gun-banners never yet have offered a reasonable compromise that I know of. They just seem to constantly be thinking up new ways to take away guns from lawful, peaceful and responseable citizens.
For just one example of how I might consider a compromise, if somehow, someway (yeah, I know it is impossible) if the gun-banners and the gun owners could reach an iron-clad, never to be violated agreement that if gunowners will just agree to all take some kind of class(s) to fully understand gun safety, handling, shooting,etc. and that if gun owners will just take that class then society/the government pledges to never ever outlaw guns for lawful citizens.
This might make me sound like a weak sister to my fellow gun owners, but a reasonable agreement will never be offered by the gun banners so I will never have to be part of any such agreement.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Problem with displaying or living that compromise is that it always seems like the gun-banners never yet have offered a reasonable compromise that I know of. They just seem to constantly be thinking up new ways to take away guns from lawful, peaceful and responsible citizens.
I am basically a liberal. I know, a gun owning liberal is an oxy-moron!![;)] I travel in circles with many anti-gun people. Some you just can not talk to, most you can. But they all have one thing in common, FEAR!! They are afraid. Afraid of guns, afraid of people, afraid of gun owning people, or just plain afraid. Some will never be willing to compromise less than a total ban. Some are willing to talk, these are the ones we need to reach out to. Although I wish it were not necessary, gun owners need to bend over backwards to reassure the public that we are not nuts who are just waiting to shoot our neighbors. Some may take issue at this with the attitude "Screw em!!" but that is counter productive. Threats and posturing just creates more fear which is fuel in the opposite direction. We need to use the rules to our favor.
One thing I intend to do (when I have more time after my children are outta the house! Yea, right!![:p]) is become more active in the NRA. I want to help bring visibility to the safety training programs and help develop programs which are more publicly assuring. Over the past many years gun rights have been picked at little by little. It's clear that what has been happening is not as effective as could be. I just discovered that here in Florida anyone born before 1976 must take a hunter's safety course before they can purchase a hunting license. And the course is two days from 8AM to 5PM. This should be made public so everyone could see that there are safeguards in place, this isn't the Wild West!! Many other states require similar training. Maybe this could be extended to gun ownership in general.
I know people who have carry permits who are inept in handling their weapon. They say that the class was a joke. THAT scares me.
Shadow83
I have great love for humanity, it's just the people I can not stand.
I served in the military, and the most comforting thing was everyone felt the same about guns. They weren't viewed as a toy or a novelty, they were a weapon. Safety is paramount. So I can see the need for licensing. Shadow is right. Its like my dad used to say, "One Oh-poop screws up a thousand Atta-boys" For every careless accident, our fight to maintain our rights takes a step backward.
The propagandists are winning big time...and if we merely slow down the pace of gun control...our children will never live in freedom...because the guns will be taken away in 25-30 years...instead of 5.
Saying that we need this or that law to "protect citizens"..is to ignore the fact that 40 years ago there were few gun laws...and guns in the windows of most pick-ups.Violent crime was not a national emergency,either......Guns do not cause crime....insane legal decisions aid and abet crime.National license ? What a crock...how Hitler loved that...
As no offence to TR, I'd like to say that any compromise is too much. The anti-gun crowd isn't going to give up because we have compromised. In 1986, when it became all but impossible for a private citizen to legally get a new machine gun, the NRA probably thought it was a major victory saying that they are being "reasonable." Then what happened in 1994, a mere 8 years later? The ban on semi automatic versions of these guns. Now, because nobody had stuck up for the right to own the fully automatic versions of the guns, the liberals were able to attack guns that only looked like machine guns.
Never give an inch. They will take a mile.
I don't know if any of you realize this, but registration lists endanger you and your family. The information on any registration form is all the information any encroacher needs to get the jump on you and your family. This isn't a conspiracy theory... governments have actually used these lists to kill millions of people. Invading foreign powers have been aided in their goals of domination thanks to these lists.
Compromising with gun grabbers is a losing battle. NO COMPROMISE!!!
Have you guys forgotten, the goal of gunbanners are to ban and confiscate all guns of every make, model, size, and type. Allowing them any ground puts them closer to their ultimate goal. Their will is malevolent, and they are serpents.... evil venomous vipers. To consort with these creatures is to invite poison into your hearts... and your lives. Don't do it.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
"Followers of Christ, be armed."
In my home state of KS, a citizen cannot legally carry a gun when they leave home.
Actually, Kansans CAN carry legally, if they live in a jurisdiction that does not ban such carry. Kansas has no state pre-emption law. Kansas DOES have a law against carrying CONCEALED, however. All carry that's done by ordinary Kansans must be done openly. The only exceptions are sworn police officers and liscensed private investigators.
There is also a ban in Kansas against carrying on school grounds.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
~Sinclair Lewis, It Can't Happen Here
"Our enemies...never stop thinking about new ways to
harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
~President George W. Bush
There is on good arguement FOR gun control... Control the criminals with the guns. Find out where they get their guns and stop them. I know they don't shop at the local gun store. Registration doesn't work on the AK brought in from Mexico bought in some alley.
So you're saying those kids at Columbine did NOT just walk into a gun show and purchase the guns they killed everyone with?!?! Someone's lieing then!!! [:0]
I go to gun shows very often and I can gaurantee you that at least 30% of the shoppers are NOT "sit at home law abiding citizens". Don't be niave. THESE are the people who are going to ruin it for all of us. THESE are the people that strike fear into a huge part of the American public and fuel their support for gun control.[8)]
It's easier to evok fear than reassurance. Hitler and the Bush administration has proven that. Step into reality. A common post I have seen is how cun control laws have increased over the years. Wake up!! It didn't happen over night or by a few people.
Law makers are * kissers, they follow the will of the people. If they don't they are gone at next election. No matter what one says to a politician they are going to do what gets them the most votes. So it's the people who need to be convinced, not the politicians. It will be too late to reconsider when you are watching your Ak being melted down.
And to explain to those who can not grasp: A license is just that. Does everyone who has a driver's license own a car? And even IF the stormtroopers come marchin down our streets they will not know how many guns the licensed own. Hand them your crappy one and hide the rest.[xx(]
As much as I respect Native Americans one lesson can be learned from them, if you dig in you will get run over. Face it, reality sux some times.
Shadow83
I have great love for humanity, it's just the people I can not stand.