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As I have been forced to give up pistol shooting years ago because presidente blair thought it a romp to jump on the gun control bandwagon to get more voters being happy with him, It came to pass that the only pistol shooters now having fun are the druggies and loonies that never held legal pistols in the first place,
Our Royal protection officers let off three rounds two years ago because a glock is a bit to busy for them, Whoops!
We have also had self contained air pistols taken off us as well, which were freely held untill some idiots found if you drilled a hole in the chamber you could line it and put 22 s in it to hold up banks,
meanwhile us law abidind taxpayers wait in hope for blair to go and get anybody else in power who can think in a straight line,
Gun Control, cracking good Idea
regards
Alan
quote:So you're saying those kids at Columbine did NOT just walk into a gun show and purchase the guns they killed everyone with?!?! Someone's lieing then!!!
Actually, it was my understanding that one of them had his girlfriend purchase some of them guns, and the others were bought through someone else, and then one of them was sawed down by the same individual, who knew exactly what the two of them were going to do. But the reason we have been led to believe that this was all about the wrong people getting guns through gun shows is because the liberal media wanted to stir the people up and try to get them all shut down as a result.
I'd say you've been lied to.
And even if they were bought at a gun show, so what. All that tells me is that people bent on the commission of horrid crimes are not going to try to do it legally. There is no legal way to break the law.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state,the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
Go ahead.Be a clone of the Socialist empty suits elected to office..and the brain dead that elect them.
Turn you back on some of the most powerful words known to man.Pretend you support the Constitution.Blend seamlessly with the garbage that is hellbent on destroying America.
You will never be accused of being a freedom loving,rugged individual.But then...those words are ugly words to todays 'man'....
I can list several reasonable arguments against gun control. But the most compelling is that IT DOESN'T WORK.
If you look at the states with the most restrictive gun laws they also tend to have the highest violent crime rates. Whereas, the states with the most lax gun laws tend to have far lower violent crime rates. There is a reason for this.
Another example of how the gun laws fail is looking at Australia. One year after the wholesale ban of guns, their crime rates have skyrocketd. 12 months after the ban, murder rates are up 3.2% and assaults are up 8.6% nation wide. The rate of armed assaults are up 44% nationwide. Yep, thats a forty-four percent increase. In the state of Victoria the rate of homicides with firearms is up 300%.
Australia has had a steady decrease in firearm homicides for 25 years, and this trend reversed to an increase in 1 year.
But, we cannot use australia as our total model, after all we are not Australia.
Americans use firearms to defend themselves from criminals about 760,000 times a year. This figure is the lowest among a group of 15 nationwide polls done by organizations including Gallup and the Los Angeles Times.
In 1996, Dr. John R. Lott of the University of Chicago Law School published the results of a crime study conducted using FBI data for all 3,045 U.S. counties from 1977 to 1992.
Between 1977 and 1992, 10 states adopted right-to-carry laws. Dr. Lott's study found that the implementation of these laws created:
-- no change in suicide rates,
-- a .5% rise in accidental firearm deaths,
-- a 5% decline in rapes,
-- a 7% decline in aggravated assaults,
-- and an 8% decline in murder
What does this mean in actual numbers?
* Using 1995 numbers, this amounts to:
-- 1 more accidental gun death,
-- 316 less murders,
-- 939 less rapes,
-- and 14,702 less aggravated assaults
At least in the states that adopted right-to-carry laws.
* 221,443 concealed carry licenses were issued in Florida between October of 1987 and April of 1994. During that time, Florida recorded 18 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. (or 0.008%)
* As of 1998, nationwide, there has been 1 recorded incident in which a permit holder shot someone following a traffic accident. The permit holder was not charged, as the grand jury ruled the shooting was in self defense.
* As of 1998, no permit holder has ever shot a police officer. There have been several cases in which a permit holder has protected an officer's life.
John Lott's crime study found that states which adopted concealed carry laws saw an 84% decrease in the number of multiple victim public shootings, resulting in a 90% decline in deaths arising from such instances.
I have more info if you would like. The facts are quite clear in this matter. No serious study of the effects of gun control laws has ever shown them to be an effective tool in crime reduction.
There are plenty of gun laws on the books, we just need to enforce them.
There are good gun laws on the books. Mental patients and convicted felons not being allowed to buy firearms is a plus in my book.
Certain classes of weapons being more difficult to get is a plus to me.
I am not so naive as to think that things are powerful as firearms should be totally free from restrictions. But so often thoselaws are ignored, go unenforced or are plea bargained into an ineffective range.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." [Samuel Adams]
How about a truly Revolutionary idea for you to ponder.
Misuse a gun..go to jail.
Murder someone...30 days to execution.
It is called Personal Responsibility..directly opposed to the Nanny State...or to the type that belives that everybody else needs laws to keep then in line.
Look, no one on this thread has even come close to saying they would like to give up their rights. Some of you feel that the laws as they are written are too stringent. You have a right to that opinion. I would like to know how the current laws have affected any of you negatively. I mean I have read of a few cases where things in some ones distant past have come back to haunt them. Those cases are few and far between. Lets face it, some people don't deserve the right to own a weapon. The simple fact is, if you break the law and commit a violent crime it is irresponsible for anyone to arm you and let you go out and do it again. I mean think of it this way... A man is convicted of armed robbery and serves his time. He gets out, buys another gun and does it again, this time killing some one you love. A simple background check at the point of purchase could have prevented this from happening.
allrndcowboy123, the fact that 80% of all firearms used in crime are illegally owned doesn't seem to influence your thought process here. 80%. Odds are they didn't even try a gun shop because it could tip off the authorities that they tried to buy a gun.
I hope everybody by now knows I am hard-core pro-second amendment as well as a supporter for the amendment in my state of KS constitution which also protects the citizens rights to bear arms.
However, what is unsaid in both those amendments is that those rights are only for the lawful citizens. I don't think anyone has seriously argued that known, violent criminals were also covered by those amendments.
So if you agree up to this point, then you would have to also agree that SOME ENTITY (federal, state govt. or ??) should have to have a way to try and weed out those violent criminals at the point of firearm purchase so as to allow the lawful citizens to make their purchase and to block the criminals.
That means at least a few gun laws on the books. No way around it in my mind.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
quote:However, what is unsaid in both those amendments is that those rights are only for the lawful citizens. I don't think anyone has seriously argued that known, violent criminals were also covered by those amendments.
OK, fox, I'll argue the case for convicted criminals.
Nowhere in the US Constitution, or the Amendments to which the US Constitution adheres to state that former criminals can be put back into society and have their rights denied them after paying their debt to society. If all free men are expected to be equal in the eyes of the law, how can they be considered equals if they do not have all their rights returned to them upon their return to society?
Now, my only solution to this is to deny all parole, and keep all prisoners that have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt behind bars, and truly rehabilitate them, and in that, I mean 6 days per week 12 hours per day hard labor. No TV's, no basketball courts, no commissary funds, no luxuries, period.
The other point is that, no, in my belief, I do not believe it is a good idea to return all rights to those who have merely been restrained from the populace in a form of Romper Room time out, not by a long shot, but definitely, we need to be more successful at creating an unpleasant environment for those that do evil.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
phreak you may be on to something. I was just having this same conversation with my girlfriend yesterday. It seems that inmates have more luxuries than I do. I mean we take a criminal convicted of a violent crime and let him do nothing but hang out with his homies and work out all day. What you get isn't a reformed person, you get a BIGGER, angrier thug. It makes no sense to me. I do know that I will never see any sort of prison reform in my lieftime though. Get a CCW.
Gunphreak: I believe that any non-violent person who becomes a felon should not have his constitutonal rights tampered with. This includes his/her right to keep and bear arms.
Now, with the violent felons I do not feel comfortable giving them legal grounds to buy, own and carry guns. If a citizen has chosen to use felony, unlawful violence towards an innocent citizen then I feel that felon should not have full legal rights the same as a citizen that has no violent criminal record.
With this in mind, I see no way to prevent such people from legally and easily buying guns unless there is some sort of control on buying guns. This is where, reluctantly, at least a minimum of gun laws come into place. I don't know anyway around this.
If there was not such control, a convicted mass murderer, who has just escaped from prison, could walk into any gun store and buy a gun (s). I don't think any of us want this. And the only way to be sure not to have "this" is to haave some sort of control on who buys guns. And there you have gun laws.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
The Second Ammendment means a LOT to me. And I will vote, argue, and protest to preserve it.
But I am also a rational, thinking man.
I believe in Freedom of Speech too. But yelling FIRE in a crowded theatre will get you arrested, as will talking about a bomb in an airport. Threatening someone will also get you in trouble.
But they are also just speech. Should they be allowed?
I demand my rights to own my firearms. But should everyone have those rights? Should those who have shown their propensity to harm others or shown their lack of mental stability, be given the same rights?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." [Samuel Adams]
People who commit violent crimes should never breath free air again...or stop breathing altogether.
Instead of agitating for gun laws...you ought to be demanding that the truly evil be executed.
Yelling fire in a movie..a classic case of apples and oranges...Guns are a necessary,vital tool for preventing tyranny.
Allowing the very organ that WILL bring you tyranny to decide who,when,where,and how many guns a citizen may own is insanity of the first order.
Freedom is far more important then security..no matter HOW emasculated
the American male has become.
The fact remains..the "wild west" during the most violent period..the trailhead days..was a far safer place to be then the big cities and their gun control stupidity...the late 1800's.
Well, they are never going to execute every criminal who commits a voilent crime. I mean look at all the wife beaters walking around. I am not advocating controlling what or how many guns a citizen can own. I am just of the belief that once a person knowingly commits a crime, they are also knowingly giving up certain rights. Its like the old saying goes, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Gunphreak: I believe that any non-violent person who becomes a felon should not have his constitutonal rights tampered with. This includes his/her right to keep and bear arms.
Now, with the violent felons I do not feel comfortable giving them legal grounds to buy, own and carry guns. If a citizen has chosen to use felony, unlawful violence towards an innocent citizen then I feel that felon should not have full legal rights the same as a citizen that has no violent criminal record.
With this in mind, I see no way to prevent such people from legally and easily buying guns unless there is some sort of control on buying guns. This is where, reluctantly, at least a minimum of gun laws come into place. I don't know anyway around this.
If there was not such control, a convicted mass murderer, who has just escaped from prison, could walk into any gun store and buy a gun (s). I don't think any of us want this. And the only way to be sure not to have "this" is to haave some sort of control on who buys guns. And there you have gun laws.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
quote:Originally posted by Shadow83
I have always been against gun control, but for gun licensing. Few have disagreed with this concept no matter how they felt on gun control.
How many times have you gone to a range and saw an idiot a few lanes away who you knew should not have that AK in their hand. It is WAY too often that I see this. It scares the crap outta me to know that these boneheads have possession of such a dangerous piece of equipment, especially 20 yards away from me and my son.
Just two weekends ago I was at the range and two lanes down were two adult males and two kids with at least 8 guns combined (assault, sporter and handguns) who hadn't the slightest idea how to handle them safely, much less able to hit a target. They were shooting at a 24x24 target set at 25 yards with a bushmaster and hit it maybe twice. They even had a scope on the AR. I made sure between relays that neither my son or myself went down range to check the targets unless they had every weapon down and safe. I even casually went over after the range officer to make sure all actions were empty and open.
I truly believe that no one should be permitted to own a gun unless they prove some level of responsibility and proficiency. I am in no way in favor of gun registration but licensing, yes! You do not give someone the keys to a car unless they prove that they know the rules and are at least somewhat proficient. I realize that this would not make things completely safe, but it would enact some level of seriousness in a serious sport. I went to a local gun show and bought a 91/30 Mosin Nagant and 500 rounds of surplus steel cored armor piercing ammo easily. I wondered about the person who had never handled a weapon OR had the foggiest idea of the proper safety techniques doing the same.
I live in Florida. I have known people with carry permits who have passed the few hour class and still did not know how to handle the weapon. And their attitude was evident that they did not respect the power that they had.
I will fight to preserve my right to own my guns, but I also feel that as responsible gun owners we must do the best we can to make sure the boneheads don't screw it up for us. Every time some moron buys a gun and does something stupid with it just puts another nail in the gun control coffin. There are millions of responsible gun owners in America and a handful of idiots who own guns, that's all the anti-gun zealots need to fuel their fight. Many of my friends are non-gun owners and are ignorant to this fact. They see the news where a bonehead left his loaded pistol out for a 5 yo to get and shoot a friend. They don't realize that for the one idiot, there are 100,000 responsible citizens with their guns safely stored.
The general public wants to feel safe, this is a fact. If responsible gun owners do not help make them feel safe then others will make them afraid and thus gain support. We will lose in the end. And any arrogant attitudes will only further support their efforts.
We can take the wind outta their sails by taking control of the wind, not the sail.
Shadow83
I have great love for humanity, it's just the people I can not stand.
Bad idea! A Right cannot be licenced, and to do so will allow for abuse by the ones doing the licensing. All these poeple you mentioned are also allowed to drive cars, are they not? What kills more people on a daily basis in this country....cars or guns? But for some reason, cars never seem to bother anyone...why is that?
quote:Originally posted by allrndcowboy123
Look, no one on this thread has even come close to saying they would like to give up their rights. Some of you feel that the laws as they are written are too stringent. You have a right to that opinion. I would like to know how the current laws have affected any of you negatively. I mean I have read of a few cases where things in some ones distant past have come back to haunt them. Those cases are few and far between. Lets face it, some people don't deserve the right to own a weapon. The simple fact is, if you break the law and commit a violent crime it is irresponsible for anyone to arm you and let you go out and do it again. I mean think of it this way... A man is convicted of armed robbery and serves his time. He gets out, buys another gun and does it again, this time killing some one you love. A simple background check at the point of purchase could have prevented this from happening.
Missing the point again! It is not only violent felons that are denied thier rights, but Ollie North, Martha Stewart, Leona Helmsley, Rush Limbaugh, anyone involved in the Enron scandal, any 'White-Collar Crime, anyone who has written or took the rap for a bad check over a certain amount, anyone who has been charged with an administrative violation of thier FFL provisions, any U. S. citizen convicted of any felony in another country whether it is against the law here or not, anyone discharged from the military under "Other than Honorable Conditions", whether it was criminal or administrative, anyone who's been accused, rightly or wrongly (whether or not they are charged, or convicted) of domestic violence, stalking, abuse or ever been subject to a Protection Order (rightly or wrongly issued), and "certain other misdeomenors", which means anyone they decide at the time. They could, under these guidelines, deny someone thier Rights because they are behind on Child Support, or someone accuses them under the Patriot Act II of accessing subversive or pornographic websites, etc...... There are thousands of felony charges available. Less than 10% of them actually have to involve violence towards another individual.
You cannot give the government ANY control over your rights if you want to keep them. History has already proven the point countless times. If you want to disarm the populace, all you have to do is change the laws to make more people felons, maybe simply because they belong to a certain ethnic group, or have certain political views.
The bottom line is that ALL GUN CONTRL LAWS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL....PERIOD. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'REASONBLE' GUN CONTROL! "Reasonable" is only what someone else determines it to be. It was "reasonable" at one time that someone be denied the right to have a firearm because they were black. It was "reasonable" at one time that women could not vote or own property, because they were classed as 'property' themselves. It was "reasonable" at one time that we practice a policy of genocide towards Native Americans. It was "reasonable" at one time that we strip Japanese Americans of their property and herd them into Relocation Camps, without compensation or benefit of the legal process. The list goes on and on..... And don't think that it can't happen here again. Remember, Hitler was LEGALLY ELECTED in free elections by a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC'S population.
TR;
Begin to understand why I no longer believe in the political process to defend the Costitution ?
Even gun people have been so completely brain-washed,there is little hope of EVER regaining the ground we have lost.As the process of destroying the Constitution continues in the fedgov propaganda camps (schools) continue...less will be understood about the Founders intensions every day.
I am not trying to say I like gun-control laws. I am not disagreeing when posters here say that ALL gun laws are unconstitutional. And if we just had to decide this issue here among our small group, maybe we could agree to void all gun laws and that would work fine for us.
But our small group has to remember that it functions as a tiny part of a much larger population in this country. You will never, EVER get the clout, support or legal/constitutional standing to get rid of all gun laws.
Even if the most rabid members of the pro-gun rights group staged a coup and overthrew the govt., and got rid of all the gun laws, after awhile a few laws would sneak back in.
We will never be without gun laws. The best we can do is to try and manage those laws.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
I also think that the argument that any gun law is unconstitutional, if won in a debate, could see the 2nd Ammendment attacked or removed. That is simply the reality of the matter. The "No Gun Laws at All" mentality is why the anti-gun freaks can portray the NRA as radical. The world has changed. The media will ALWAYS be happy to ignore any positive news about firearms, while being quick to report the slightest misuse.
According to many studies, firearms are used between 300,000 and 750,000 times a year to prevent crimes. Do these ever make the news? Of course not. But let some idiot (who usually couldn't own a firearm legally anyway) open fire on people and it makes headlines nationwide.
I am proud to be an American. I am proud to have served in the military to help preserve ALL of our freedoms. I am proud of my prowess with a rifle. I am also proud of my fellow citizens when they defend themselves against the scum.
But I am also a realist. I know that the brainwashing will continue. I am aware that politicians ae scared to defend the 2nd Ammendment. I encourage anyone I can to explore the Libertarian Party, so we can get the government back to its place.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." [Samuel Adams]
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
I am not trying to say I like gun-control laws. I am not disagreeing when posters here say that ALL gun laws are unconstitutional. And if we just had to decide this issue here among our small group, maybe we could agree to void all gun laws and that would work fine for us.
But our small group has to remember that it functions as a tiny part of a much larger population in this country. You will never, EVER get the clout, support or legal/constitutional standing to get rid of all gun laws.
Even if the most rabid members of the pro-gun rights group staged a coup and overthrew the govt., and got rid of all the gun laws, after awhile a few laws would sneak back in.
We will never be without gun laws. The best we can do is to try and manage those laws.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Any law that restricts anyone from aquiring and keeping a firearm of any type for defense is UNCONSTITUTIONAL...period! They could just as easy restrict voting using your logic.
There are some gun rules and statutes that would not violate the 2nd Ammendment. A person certainly has the right to forbid anyone to bring a firearm into their domicile. You don't have to go there. A church, for religeous reasons alone, certainly has the right not to allow firearms in their buildings. To do so would infringe upon others religieous rights. Again, you don't have to go to church. A business has the right to not allow weapons inside their buildings, as long as they are willing to assume the responsibility for your protection while you are there (ie: providing good Security). A bar owner likewise, in the interests of common-sense and the safety of his other patrons, can certainly request that you not bring any weapons into anyplace where alcohol can be consumed on the premises. If you don't agree, you don't have to go in. Buy a bottle and take it home. Also, in the interests of public safety, it is not unreasonable for authorities to not allow weapons at a voting place on the day of an election, as long as they provide armed Security or Police. The same with a court-room, or any other place where emotions may run high and could preclude good judgement from an otherwise stable person. Also, it makes sense that you not be allowed to carry a fire arm into a jail or mental institution, where a disturbed or desperate individual could gain control of it, as long as they provide adequate Security and protection for you while you're there. None of these provisions would violate the 2nd Ammendment. A little common-sense goes a long way.
We are not nearly so far apart as one may think,given the spirited debate ensuing......reread Gigmasters last post for some common sense laws that one could live with.
I put forth what COULD be/Should be....fully recognizing the terrible shape we are in , lawwise....I don't deal in what IS...Pick up a BATF publication for THAT mish-mash of garbage they beat us over the head with every day.
SOMEBODY has to keep freedom fresh on people's minds...and God knows that the media/business/president complex sure as hell won't.....they preach freedom,while taking it away apace.
Hey Gig guess what... Felons can't own a gun or vote. Been that way for a long time. I don't think you see the big picture. If there were no regulations on certain things, there would be chaos. The question is have you ever needed a gun to defend yourself? What were you defending yourself from? Was it another man with a gun? Was he doing the wrong or were you? Either way ONE of you shouldn't have been given a gun. And if you both lived through the experience, the one who was in the wrong should never be allowed to own a gun again. Why should we allow criminals to arm themselves?
We 'allow' felons to regain their rights because we wish them to rejoin the community of man.
Deprive a man of the basic rights enjoyed by citizens... what is his incentitive to 'do right'...??
Go ahead...make an ever increasing class of 'untouchables'...and see what it gains you. Oh...I forgot.Any intelligent person can ALREADY see the results.....recidisism in the 60/70 % range.
Been 'done for a long time' ? This makes it right...or Constitutional ?
It is supposed to be a deturant. You know like a consequence. Possibly a tthought before commiting a felony. What about this guy recently released for killing two game wardens. Claude Dallas. SHould we let him run out and buy a gun? He served 22 years for double murder, but I'm sure he's reformed...
gigmaster, I did not say, nor have I ever said, that any guns laws are constitutional. What I did say was:
Even if the most rabid members of the pro-gun rights group staged a coup and overthrew the govt., and got rid of all the gun laws, after awhile a few laws would sneak back in.
We will never be without gun laws. The best we can do is to try and manage those laws.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Don't blame freedom nor the Second Amendment for you refusing to demand proper punishment for violent criminals.
The 'Justice System' allowed this man to walk out.Give him back his .45.The right of Self defense and defense of family,community,and country take presidence over your 'deterence factor'..a nebulent thing at best.
True deterance revolves around swift,speedy justice..(A concept found in the Constitution)...and a proper hanging.
TR; Yes,gun laws would creep back in. But in 225 years or so...the insanity mainly started about 40 years ago.
I think it would not be difficult to put the chains on the fedgov for another couple hundred years...given a educated populace.(A tall order,I know...)
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
For those here who think that the US Constitutional 2nd amendment means no gun laws at all: if no laws, then what should be done (if anything) about:
children buying guns
violent criminals out on parole wanting a gun
escaped convicts wanting a gun to use to maintain their illegal freedom
new but legal immigrants to this country wanting a gun
illegal immigrants to this country wanting a gun
people who have been legally declared (and you agree by observing them) very mentally imcompetent
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
quote: For those here who think that the US Constitutional 2nd amendment means no gun laws at all: if no laws, then what should be done (if anything) about:
children buying gunsSo what ? I bought my first .303 British at the age of 12. The real problem is stupid parents not teaching gun safety....perhaps a course in the fedgov schools ? [:D]
quote:violent criminals out on parole wanting a gun
The 'Legal System' has determined that this person is safe to turn loose.Give him back his .45.
quote:escaped convicts wanting a gun to use to maintain their illegal freedom
Self explanatory...shot on sight.This type will not obey ANY laws..
quote:new but legal immigrants to this country wanting a gun
So sell him one.Once again..the system has determined that this person is fit to be a citizen..give him his rights.
quote:illegal immigrants to this country wanting a gunDeport said person yesterday.
quote:people who have been legally declared (and you agree by observing them) very mentally imcompetentThe local people are competent enough to make this decision WITHOUT federal control.Given the situation where a defective slips through the cracks...a dozen armed citizens will handle the situation quickly....
Freedom is sometimes messy.I prefer it to the Nanny State....
Everything sounds good Highball except I wonder about this one part:
Posted by Highball
The local people are competent enough to make this decision WITHOUT federal control.
The part about local people deciding what happens in their community, as opposed to Washington, DC doing it for them, sounds good.
But the other part kinda opens the door for at least one gun control law. Whadda think?
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Make the rules few...and simple.So even idiots can understand them.
Misuse of a firearm WILL lead to swift,severe punishment.Teach ALL youngsters to handle guns safely.The few that cannot handle responsibiliity..or allow anger to cloud their judgement....WILL be weeded out rather quickly.
This may seem cruel...or cold. Ask yourself what is warm and fuzzy about a system allowing vicious butchers to walk the streets again after 8,10 or 12 years...with very little done to modify behaviour ?
quote:Now, with the violent felons I do not feel comfortable giving them legal grounds to buy, own and carry guns.
Me either. That's why they would stay in prison. And it would be miserable under my direction. Nothing fun about it. It may have people praying for a death sentence.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
escaped convicts wanting a gun to use to maintain their illegal freedom
new but legal immigrants to this country wanting a gun
illegal immigrants to this country wanting a gun
people who have been legally declared (and you agree by observing them) very mentally imcompetent
1. Children cannot own anything. Their parents may purchase whatever they want for their child. And what of the non-sense of disallowing an 18-20 year old "child" access to a handgun? That is BS!!! This is a perfect example of why no government should ever be allowed to tell others what they can and cannot do where their rights are concerned.
2. Escaped convicts walking into any gun store would definitely be a bad thing for them, especially when their faces are plastered everywhere with a reward posted on it. But they won't be going to the local gun store to buy anything. That's what the black market is for.
3. New legal immigrants, that went all the proper channels to be or have become citizens of the US, I have absolutely no problem with.
4. Illegal immigrants don't share all of the special privileges the rest of us do, but they do get one privilege the rest of us here do not, and that is deportation.
5. Invalids all have someone to take care of them. I can hardly see my little brother (a 27 year old invalid) or any other invalid, for that matter, walking into the local firearm shop and buying any gun. That's what my step-dad is for, to provide and protect the family.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
2. Escaped convicts walking into any gun store would definitely be a bad thing for them, especially when their faces are plastered everywhere with a reward posted on it. But they won't be going to the local gun store to buy anything. That's what the black market is for.
If there were no gun control laws there would be no black market. Anybody and everybody would just waltz into the local gun store, maybe with with a disguise so they won't be recognized, and buy any and all guns that they want.
tr fox
tr fox
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
The early settlers wiped out...nearly to extinction..the predators that preyed on their herds.
Don't you suppose that would work for human predators...also ?
I was shown a huge dead tree...south of Dodge City,Kansas.This tree was purported to be the 'hanging tree' for one of the last horse thieves in that part of the country.....at least one done by citizens.
Please don't start with the "Vigilante Justice" nonsense.I would come nearer trusting the guy down the road then the totally impersonal "fedgov. Justice System"....inpersonal,that is...until they just 'gotta make a case'.......The jails being full of innocent people.
Don't believe that ? Start doing a little research on the subject.
At that time, I was trying to buy pre-ban items. It sucked, jut like if I wanted a machine gun. Too bad I can't just buy one of those, I can only buy one that is 20 years old, and 10 times the price of what it should be (or more).
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Comments
Our Royal protection officers let off three rounds two years ago because a glock is a bit to busy for them, Whoops!
We have also had self contained air pistols taken off us as well, which were freely held untill some idiots found if you drilled a hole in the chamber you could line it and put 22 s in it to hold up banks,
meanwhile us law abidind taxpayers wait in hope for blair to go and get anybody else in power who can think in a straight line,
Gun Control, cracking good Idea
regards
Alan
A B Meeds
Actually, it was my understanding that one of them had his girlfriend purchase some of them guns, and the others were bought through someone else, and then one of them was sawed down by the same individual, who knew exactly what the two of them were going to do. But the reason we have been led to believe that this was all about the wrong people getting guns through gun shows is because the liberal media wanted to stir the people up and try to get them all shut down as a result.
I'd say you've been lied to.
And even if they were bought at a gun show, so what. All that tells me is that people bent on the commission of horrid crimes are not going to try to do it legally. There is no legal way to break the law.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
"Followers of Christ, be armed."
Go ahead.Be a clone of the Socialist empty suits elected to office..and the brain dead that elect them.
Turn you back on some of the most powerful words known to man.Pretend you support the Constitution.Blend seamlessly with the garbage that is hellbent on destroying America.
You will never be accused of being a freedom loving,rugged individual.But then...those words are ugly words to todays 'man'....
If you look at the states with the most restrictive gun laws they also tend to have the highest violent crime rates. Whereas, the states with the most lax gun laws tend to have far lower violent crime rates. There is a reason for this.
Another example of how the gun laws fail is looking at Australia. One year after the wholesale ban of guns, their crime rates have skyrocketd. 12 months after the ban, murder rates are up 3.2% and assaults are up 8.6% nation wide. The rate of armed assaults are up 44% nationwide. Yep, thats a forty-four percent increase. In the state of Victoria the rate of homicides with firearms is up 300%.
Australia has had a steady decrease in firearm homicides for 25 years, and this trend reversed to an increase in 1 year.
But, we cannot use australia as our total model, after all we are not Australia.
Americans use firearms to defend themselves from criminals about 760,000 times a year. This figure is the lowest among a group of 15 nationwide polls done by organizations including Gallup and the Los Angeles Times.
In 1996, Dr. John R. Lott of the University of Chicago Law School published the results of a crime study conducted using FBI data for all 3,045 U.S. counties from 1977 to 1992.
Between 1977 and 1992, 10 states adopted right-to-carry laws. Dr. Lott's study found that the implementation of these laws created:
-- no change in suicide rates,
-- a .5% rise in accidental firearm deaths,
-- a 5% decline in rapes,
-- a 7% decline in aggravated assaults,
-- and an 8% decline in murder
What does this mean in actual numbers?
* Using 1995 numbers, this amounts to:
-- 1 more accidental gun death,
-- 316 less murders,
-- 939 less rapes,
-- and 14,702 less aggravated assaults
At least in the states that adopted right-to-carry laws.
* 221,443 concealed carry licenses were issued in Florida between October of 1987 and April of 1994. During that time, Florida recorded 18 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. (or 0.008%)
* As of 1998, nationwide, there has been 1 recorded incident in which a permit holder shot someone following a traffic accident. The permit holder was not charged, as the grand jury ruled the shooting was in self defense.
* As of 1998, no permit holder has ever shot a police officer. There have been several cases in which a permit holder has protected an officer's life.
John Lott's crime study found that states which adopted concealed carry laws saw an 84% decrease in the number of multiple victim public shootings, resulting in a 90% decline in deaths arising from such instances.
I have more info if you would like. The facts are quite clear in this matter. No serious study of the effects of gun control laws has ever shown them to be an effective tool in crime reduction.
There are plenty of gun laws on the books, we just need to enforce them.
quote:"There are plenty of gun laws on the books, we just need to enforce them."
A super post...completely nullified by this example of NRA propaganda.
HOW in God's name can you quote all the facts given...then blow yourself out of the water by repeating nonsense put forth by gun grabbers ?
There are good gun laws on the books. Mental patients and convicted felons not being allowed to buy firearms is a plus in my book.
Certain classes of weapons being more difficult to get is a plus to me.
I am not so naive as to think that things are powerful as firearms should be totally free from restrictions. But so often thoselaws are ignored, go unenforced or are plea bargained into an ineffective range.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." [Samuel Adams]
How about a truly Revolutionary idea for you to ponder.
Misuse a gun..go to jail.
Murder someone...30 days to execution.
It is called Personal Responsibility..directly opposed to the Nanny State...or to the type that belives that everybody else needs laws to keep then in line.
However, what is unsaid in both those amendments is that those rights are only for the lawful citizens. I don't think anyone has seriously argued that known, violent criminals were also covered by those amendments.
So if you agree up to this point, then you would have to also agree that SOME ENTITY (federal, state govt. or ??) should have to have a way to try and weed out those violent criminals at the point of firearm purchase so as to allow the lawful citizens to make their purchase and to block the criminals.
That means at least a few gun laws on the books. No way around it in my mind.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
OK, fox, I'll argue the case for convicted criminals.
Nowhere in the US Constitution, or the Amendments to which the US Constitution adheres to state that former criminals can be put back into society and have their rights denied them after paying their debt to society. If all free men are expected to be equal in the eyes of the law, how can they be considered equals if they do not have all their rights returned to them upon their return to society?
Now, my only solution to this is to deny all parole, and keep all prisoners that have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt behind bars, and truly rehabilitate them, and in that, I mean 6 days per week 12 hours per day hard labor. No TV's, no basketball courts, no commissary funds, no luxuries, period.
The other point is that, no, in my belief, I do not believe it is a good idea to return all rights to those who have merely been restrained from the populace in a form of Romper Room time out, not by a long shot, but definitely, we need to be more successful at creating an unpleasant environment for those that do evil.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
"Followers of Christ, be armed."
Now, with the violent felons I do not feel comfortable giving them legal grounds to buy, own and carry guns. If a citizen has chosen to use felony, unlawful violence towards an innocent citizen then I feel that felon should not have full legal rights the same as a citizen that has no violent criminal record.
With this in mind, I see no way to prevent such people from legally and easily buying guns unless there is some sort of control on buying guns. This is where, reluctantly, at least a minimum of gun laws come into place. I don't know anyway around this.
If there was not such control, a convicted mass murderer, who has just escaped from prison, could walk into any gun store and buy a gun (s). I don't think any of us want this. And the only way to be sure not to have "this" is to haave some sort of control on who buys guns. And there you have gun laws.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
But I am also a rational, thinking man.
I believe in Freedom of Speech too. But yelling FIRE in a crowded theatre will get you arrested, as will talking about a bomb in an airport. Threatening someone will also get you in trouble.
But they are also just speech. Should they be allowed?
I demand my rights to own my firearms. But should everyone have those rights? Should those who have shown their propensity to harm others or shown their lack of mental stability, be given the same rights?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." [Samuel Adams]
Instead of agitating for gun laws...you ought to be demanding that the truly evil be executed.
Yelling fire in a movie..a classic case of apples and oranges...Guns are a necessary,vital tool for preventing tyranny.
Allowing the very organ that WILL bring you tyranny to decide who,when,where,and how many guns a citizen may own is insanity of the first order.
Freedom is far more important then security..no matter HOW emasculated
the American male has become.
The fact remains..the "wild west" during the most violent period..the trailhead days..was a far safer place to be then the big cities and their gun control stupidity...the late 1800's.
Gunphreak: I believe that any non-violent person who becomes a felon should not have his constitutonal rights tampered with. This includes his/her right to keep and bear arms.
Now, with the violent felons I do not feel comfortable giving them legal grounds to buy, own and carry guns. If a citizen has chosen to use felony, unlawful violence towards an innocent citizen then I feel that felon should not have full legal rights the same as a citizen that has no violent criminal record.
With this in mind, I see no way to prevent such people from legally and easily buying guns unless there is some sort of control on buying guns. This is where, reluctantly, at least a minimum of gun laws come into place. I don't know anyway around this.
If there was not such control, a convicted mass murderer, who has just escaped from prison, could walk into any gun store and buy a gun (s). I don't think any of us want this. And the only way to be sure not to have "this" is to haave some sort of control on who buys guns. And there you have gun laws.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
I have always been against gun control, but for gun licensing. Few have disagreed with this concept no matter how they felt on gun control.
How many times have you gone to a range and saw an idiot a few lanes away who you knew should not have that AK in their hand. It is WAY too often that I see this. It scares the crap outta me to know that these boneheads have possession of such a dangerous piece of equipment, especially 20 yards away from me and my son.
Just two weekends ago I was at the range and two lanes down were two adult males and two kids with at least 8 guns combined (assault, sporter and handguns) who hadn't the slightest idea how to handle them safely, much less able to hit a target. They were shooting at a 24x24 target set at 25 yards with a bushmaster and hit it maybe twice. They even had a scope on the AR. I made sure between relays that neither my son or myself went down range to check the targets unless they had every weapon down and safe. I even casually went over after the range officer to make sure all actions were empty and open.
I truly believe that no one should be permitted to own a gun unless they prove some level of responsibility and proficiency. I am in no way in favor of gun registration but licensing, yes! You do not give someone the keys to a car unless they prove that they know the rules and are at least somewhat proficient. I realize that this would not make things completely safe, but it would enact some level of seriousness in a serious sport. I went to a local gun show and bought a 91/30 Mosin Nagant and 500 rounds of surplus steel cored armor piercing ammo easily. I wondered about the person who had never handled a weapon OR had the foggiest idea of the proper safety techniques doing the same.
I live in Florida. I have known people with carry permits who have passed the few hour class and still did not know how to handle the weapon. And their attitude was evident that they did not respect the power that they had.
I will fight to preserve my right to own my guns, but I also feel that as responsible gun owners we must do the best we can to make sure the boneheads don't screw it up for us. Every time some moron buys a gun and does something stupid with it just puts another nail in the gun control coffin. There are millions of responsible gun owners in America and a handful of idiots who own guns, that's all the anti-gun zealots need to fuel their fight. Many of my friends are non-gun owners and are ignorant to this fact. They see the news where a bonehead left his loaded pistol out for a 5 yo to get and shoot a friend. They don't realize that for the one idiot, there are 100,000 responsible citizens with their guns safely stored.
The general public wants to feel safe, this is a fact. If responsible gun owners do not help make them feel safe then others will make them afraid and thus gain support. We will lose in the end. And any arrogant attitudes will only further support their efforts.
We can take the wind outta their sails by taking control of the wind, not the sail.
Shadow83
I have great love for humanity, it's just the people I can not stand.
Bad idea! A Right cannot be licenced, and to do so will allow for abuse by the ones doing the licensing. All these poeple you mentioned are also allowed to drive cars, are they not? What kills more people on a daily basis in this country....cars or guns? But for some reason, cars never seem to bother anyone...why is that?
ALL GUN LAWS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL....PERIOD!
Look, no one on this thread has even come close to saying they would like to give up their rights. Some of you feel that the laws as they are written are too stringent. You have a right to that opinion. I would like to know how the current laws have affected any of you negatively. I mean I have read of a few cases where things in some ones distant past have come back to haunt them. Those cases are few and far between. Lets face it, some people don't deserve the right to own a weapon. The simple fact is, if you break the law and commit a violent crime it is irresponsible for anyone to arm you and let you go out and do it again. I mean think of it this way... A man is convicted of armed robbery and serves his time. He gets out, buys another gun and does it again, this time killing some one you love. A simple background check at the point of purchase could have prevented this from happening.
Missing the point again! It is not only violent felons that are denied thier rights, but Ollie North, Martha Stewart, Leona Helmsley, Rush Limbaugh, anyone involved in the Enron scandal, any 'White-Collar Crime, anyone who has written or took the rap for a bad check over a certain amount, anyone who has been charged with an administrative violation of thier FFL provisions, any U. S. citizen convicted of any felony in another country whether it is against the law here or not, anyone discharged from the military under "Other than Honorable Conditions", whether it was criminal or administrative, anyone who's been accused, rightly or wrongly (whether or not they are charged, or convicted) of domestic violence, stalking, abuse or ever been subject to a Protection Order (rightly or wrongly issued), and "certain other misdeomenors", which means anyone they decide at the time. They could, under these guidelines, deny someone thier Rights because they are behind on Child Support, or someone accuses them under the Patriot Act II of accessing subversive or pornographic websites, etc...... There are thousands of felony charges available. Less than 10% of them actually have to involve violence towards another individual.
You cannot give the government ANY control over your rights if you want to keep them. History has already proven the point countless times. If you want to disarm the populace, all you have to do is change the laws to make more people felons, maybe simply because they belong to a certain ethnic group, or have certain political views.
The bottom line is that ALL GUN CONTRL LAWS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL....PERIOD. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'REASONBLE' GUN CONTROL! "Reasonable" is only what someone else determines it to be. It was "reasonable" at one time that someone be denied the right to have a firearm because they were black. It was "reasonable" at one time that women could not vote or own property, because they were classed as 'property' themselves. It was "reasonable" at one time that we practice a policy of genocide towards Native Americans. It was "reasonable" at one time that we strip Japanese Americans of their property and herd them into Relocation Camps, without compensation or benefit of the legal process. The list goes on and on..... And don't think that it can't happen here again. Remember, Hitler was LEGALLY ELECTED in free elections by a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC'S population.
Begin to understand why I no longer believe in the political process to defend the Costitution ?
Even gun people have been so completely brain-washed,there is little hope of EVER regaining the ground we have lost.As the process of destroying the Constitution continues in the fedgov propaganda camps (schools) continue...less will be understood about the Founders intensions every day.
But our small group has to remember that it functions as a tiny part of a much larger population in this country. You will never, EVER get the clout, support or legal/constitutional standing to get rid of all gun laws.
Even if the most rabid members of the pro-gun rights group staged a coup and overthrew the govt., and got rid of all the gun laws, after awhile a few laws would sneak back in.
We will never be without gun laws. The best we can do is to try and manage those laws.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
I also think that the argument that any gun law is unconstitutional, if won in a debate, could see the 2nd Ammendment attacked or removed. That is simply the reality of the matter. The "No Gun Laws at All" mentality is why the anti-gun freaks can portray the NRA as radical. The world has changed. The media will ALWAYS be happy to ignore any positive news about firearms, while being quick to report the slightest misuse.
According to many studies, firearms are used between 300,000 and 750,000 times a year to prevent crimes. Do these ever make the news? Of course not. But let some idiot (who usually couldn't own a firearm legally anyway) open fire on people and it makes headlines nationwide.
I am proud to be an American. I am proud to have served in the military to help preserve ALL of our freedoms. I am proud of my prowess with a rifle. I am also proud of my fellow citizens when they defend themselves against the scum.
But I am also a realist. I know that the brainwashing will continue. I am aware that politicians ae scared to defend the 2nd Ammendment. I encourage anyone I can to explore the Libertarian Party, so we can get the government back to its place.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." [Samuel Adams]
I am not trying to say I like gun-control laws. I am not disagreeing when posters here say that ALL gun laws are unconstitutional. And if we just had to decide this issue here among our small group, maybe we could agree to void all gun laws and that would work fine for us.
But our small group has to remember that it functions as a tiny part of a much larger population in this country. You will never, EVER get the clout, support or legal/constitutional standing to get rid of all gun laws.
Even if the most rabid members of the pro-gun rights group staged a coup and overthrew the govt., and got rid of all the gun laws, after awhile a few laws would sneak back in.
We will never be without gun laws. The best we can do is to try and manage those laws.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Any law that restricts anyone from aquiring and keeping a firearm of any type for defense is UNCONSTITUTIONAL...period! They could just as easy restrict voting using your logic.
There are some gun rules and statutes that would not violate the 2nd Ammendment. A person certainly has the right to forbid anyone to bring a firearm into their domicile. You don't have to go there. A church, for religeous reasons alone, certainly has the right not to allow firearms in their buildings. To do so would infringe upon others religieous rights. Again, you don't have to go to church. A business has the right to not allow weapons inside their buildings, as long as they are willing to assume the responsibility for your protection while you are there (ie: providing good Security). A bar owner likewise, in the interests of common-sense and the safety of his other patrons, can certainly request that you not bring any weapons into anyplace where alcohol can be consumed on the premises. If you don't agree, you don't have to go in. Buy a bottle and take it home. Also, in the interests of public safety, it is not unreasonable for authorities to not allow weapons at a voting place on the day of an election, as long as they provide armed Security or Police. The same with a court-room, or any other place where emotions may run high and could preclude good judgement from an otherwise stable person. Also, it makes sense that you not be allowed to carry a fire arm into a jail or mental institution, where a disturbed or desperate individual could gain control of it, as long as they provide adequate Security and protection for you while you're there. None of these provisions would violate the 2nd Ammendment. A little common-sense goes a long way.
Semper Fi!
We are not nearly so far apart as one may think,given the spirited debate ensuing......reread Gigmasters last post for some common sense laws that one could live with.
I put forth what COULD be/Should be....fully recognizing the terrible shape we are in , lawwise....I don't deal in what IS...Pick up a BATF publication for THAT mish-mash of garbage they beat us over the head with every day.
SOMEBODY has to keep freedom fresh on people's minds...and God knows that the media/business/president complex sure as hell won't.....they preach freedom,while taking it away apace.
Deprive a man of the basic rights enjoyed by citizens... what is his incentitive to 'do right'...??
Go ahead...make an ever increasing class of 'untouchables'...and see what it gains you. Oh...I forgot.Any intelligent person can ALREADY see the results.....recidisism in the 60/70 % range.
Been 'done for a long time' ? This makes it right...or Constitutional ?
Even if the most rabid members of the pro-gun rights group staged a coup and overthrew the govt., and got rid of all the gun laws, after awhile a few laws would sneak back in.
We will never be without gun laws. The best we can do is to try and manage those laws.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
The 'Justice System' allowed this man to walk out.Give him back his .45.The right of Self defense and defense of family,community,and country take presidence over your 'deterence factor'..a nebulent thing at best.
True deterance revolves around swift,speedy justice..(A concept found in the Constitution)...and a proper hanging.
TR; Yes,gun laws would creep back in. But in 225 years or so...the insanity mainly started about 40 years ago.
I think it would not be difficult to put the chains on the fedgov for another couple hundred years...given a educated populace.(A tall order,I know...)
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
children buying guns
violent criminals out on parole wanting a gun
escaped convicts wanting a gun to use to maintain their illegal freedom
new but legal immigrants to this country wanting a gun
illegal immigrants to this country wanting a gun
people who have been legally declared (and you agree by observing them) very mentally imcompetent
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
quote: For those here who think that the US Constitutional 2nd amendment means no gun laws at all: if no laws, then what should be done (if anything) about:
children buying gunsSo what ? I bought my first .303 British at the age of 12. The real problem is stupid parents not teaching gun safety....perhaps a course in the fedgov schools ? [:D]
quote:violent criminals out on parole wanting a gun
The 'Legal System' has determined that this person is safe to turn loose.Give him back his .45.
quote:escaped convicts wanting a gun to use to maintain their illegal freedom
Self explanatory...shot on sight.This type will not obey ANY laws..
quote:new but legal immigrants to this country wanting a gun
So sell him one.Once again..the system has determined that this person is fit to be a citizen..give him his rights.
quote:illegal immigrants to this country wanting a gunDeport said person yesterday.
quote:people who have been legally declared (and you agree by observing them) very mentally imcompetentThe local people are competent enough to make this decision WITHOUT federal control.Given the situation where a defective slips through the cracks...a dozen armed citizens will handle the situation quickly....
Freedom is sometimes messy.I prefer it to the Nanny State....
(Edited for spelling)
Posted by Highball
The local people are competent enough to make this decision WITHOUT federal control.
The part about local people deciding what happens in their community, as opposed to Washington, DC doing it for them, sounds good.
But the other part kinda opens the door for at least one gun control law. Whadda think?
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
PEOPLE control.
Make the rules few...and simple.So even idiots can understand them.
Misuse of a firearm WILL lead to swift,severe punishment.Teach ALL youngsters to handle guns safely.The few that cannot handle responsibiliity..or allow anger to cloud their judgement....WILL be weeded out rather quickly.
This may seem cruel...or cold. Ask yourself what is warm and fuzzy about a system allowing vicious butchers to walk the streets again after 8,10 or 12 years...with very little done to modify behaviour ?
Me either. That's why they would stay in prison. And it would be miserable under my direction. Nothing fun about it. It may have people praying for a death sentence.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
"Followers of Christ, be armed."
violent criminals out on parole wanting a gun
escaped convicts wanting a gun to use to maintain their illegal freedom
new but legal immigrants to this country wanting a gun
illegal immigrants to this country wanting a gun
people who have been legally declared (and you agree by observing them) very mentally imcompetent
1. Children cannot own anything. Their parents may purchase whatever they want for their child. And what of the non-sense of disallowing an 18-20 year old "child" access to a handgun? That is BS!!! This is a perfect example of why no government should ever be allowed to tell others what they can and cannot do where their rights are concerned.
2. Escaped convicts walking into any gun store would definitely be a bad thing for them, especially when their faces are plastered everywhere with a reward posted on it. But they won't be going to the local gun store to buy anything. That's what the black market is for.
3. New legal immigrants, that went all the proper channels to be or have become citizens of the US, I have absolutely no problem with.
4. Illegal immigrants don't share all of the special privileges the rest of us do, but they do get one privilege the rest of us here do not, and that is deportation.
5. Invalids all have someone to take care of them. I can hardly see my little brother (a 27 year old invalid) or any other invalid, for that matter, walking into the local firearm shop and buying any gun. That's what my step-dad is for, to provide and protect the family.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
"Followers of Christ, be armed."
2. Escaped convicts walking into any gun store would definitely be a bad thing for them, especially when their faces are plastered everywhere with a reward posted on it. But they won't be going to the local gun store to buy anything. That's what the black market is for.
If there were no gun control laws there would be no black market. Anybody and everybody would just waltz into the local gun store, maybe with with a disguise so they won't be recognized, and buy any and all guns that they want.
tr fox
tr fox
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Don't you suppose that would work for human predators...also ?
I was shown a huge dead tree...south of Dodge City,Kansas.This tree was purported to be the 'hanging tree' for one of the last horse thieves in that part of the country.....at least one done by citizens.
Please don't start with the "Vigilante Justice" nonsense.I would come nearer trusting the guy down the road then the totally impersonal "fedgov. Justice System"....inpersonal,that is...until they just 'gotta make a case'.......The jails being full of innocent people.
Don't believe that ? Start doing a little research on the subject.
Sako Fan
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
"Followers of Christ, be armed."