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I am not concerned with the "efficiency" of any particular group. The NRA could be 100% efficient, or 1% efficient. I would support them if I was convinced that they were on my side. I have tried directing my complaints toward them when I was a member, and got the standard responses...we don't endorse gun control...we didn't support the anti-gun provision of the FOPA, but we will take credit for all the good things it does...etc. I know that there hasn't been a single president in my lifetime that hasn't signed some kind of gun control law. However, Clinton was the only one NRA opposed.
I sincerely wish the NRA members that are trying to make a difference the best of luck. It always enraged me to see the advertisements in American Rifleman advertising the AR-15s, and (gasp) a neutered Thompson submachinegun. Keeping in mind that the NRA didn't stick up for the thousands of non-violent Thompson owners when they had the chance in 1934. True, it would be nice to have huge gun groups, and to never give up on any of them, but I just can't help but look at the $17,000 MP5K that I want, and know that the NRA feels great about the FOPA which raised its price to astronomical levels.
quote:Originally posted by dsmith
I am not concerned with the "efficiency" of any particular group. The NRA could be 100% efficient, or 1% efficient. I would support them if I was convinced that they were on my side. I have tried directing my complaints toward them when I was a member, and got the standard responses...we don't endorse gun control...we didn't support the anti-gun provision of the FOPA, but we will take credit for all the good things it does...etc. I know that there hasn't been a single president in my lifetime that hasn't signed some kind of gun control law. However, Clinton was the only one NRA opposed.
I sincerely wish the NRA members that are trying to make a difference the best of luck. It always enraged me to see the advertisements in American Rifleman advertising the AR-15s, and (gasp) a neutered Thompson submachinegun. Keeping in mind that the NRA didn't stick up for the thousands of non-violent Thompson owners when they had the chance in 1934. True, it would be nice to have huge gun groups, and to never give up on any of them, but I just can't help but look at the $17,000 MP5K that I want, and know that the NRA feels great about the FOPA which raised its price to astronomical levels.
Since the 1934 that you mention, a lot of different things have changed. The NRA total leadership has turned over numerous times. Just as has the US government leadership. Surely you wouldn't blame the modern US govt. for mistakes made in 1934?
And what two (the only two) organizations filed a lawsuit that stopped and reveresed the New Orleans gun confistactions after Hurricane katrina? And what single organization has filed a lawsuit trying to void the San Franscisco vote that outlawed ownership of handguns and the sale and manufacturere of ALL guns and ammo in that city? What one organization finally, after fighting for years, forced Misssouri to isssue concealed carry? And what organiztion finaly got KS to pass a concealed carry law vetoed by the governor? If I wanted to research it I could go on and on. It was the NRA.
There is no way I want to do anything to weaken the NRA. If I want changes I will still encourage gun owners to continue to join and support the NRA, if for no other reason than what I have posted above, and then I will argue directly with the NRA leadership to make changes.
In military boot camp there is one exercise that remains me of something like this. The drill instructor has about 8 recruits pickup and hold a big, heavy log over their head. If that log is dropped on any one person, it will seriously injure that person. So if any one person holding that log doesn't like the way the excerise (or the boot camp) is being run, the the best way to survive is NOT to try and discourage his fellow recruits, helping him hold that log, from dropping or even drooping that log. That obviously would be counter-productive.
The correct way to deal with the problem is to find a way to get the drill instructor or camp commander to change the way the excerise is run.
So it is with public criticism of the NRA. And if you contact the NRA top dogs directly and get no response, then contact one (or more) of the large group of the board of directors. If that doesn't work, then type up your complaint in the form of a petition about the NRA and go to a gun show or stand outside a sporting good store and ask for as many signatures as you can get. Hell, if your petition states something I agree with, I'll sign it. I might even stand outside the store with you and help you gather signutures.
But constantly just running down the NRA to other gun owners and/or in public helps the anti-gun crowd more than you help the pro-gun crowd.
TR, you say that bashing the NRA hurts gun owners more than helps us. However, back when I was just a starting member of the forums, I was upbeat about NRA, and even advertised the credit card and NRA phone service.
Then some members who publicly bashed the NRA on the forums pointed out the flaws. I joined the GOA as a result. Now I am free of the group that has sold me out, and with a group that I virtually always agree with. It may be conceivable that the GOA will make mistakes, even major ones, but they publicly oppose every anti-gun law, and would repeal as many as they can.
Because of those who bashed the NRA, I increased the power of the GOA by 1/350,000th instead of merely boosting the NRA by 1/4,000,000th. Boosting the percentage of GOA members who don't compromise by a larger amount than the number of compromisers by a smaller percentage.
If you are a working adult you can easily afford to boost the membership power of both organizations. In regards to whether or not the NRA is worth boosting, refer to my post above yours.
In regards to your haven been "enlightened" about how awful the NRA is, please remember that it is human nature that we will always find people who are against ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING just because that is the way they are. In addition, some people have a very big opinion of themselves and they tend to think that just because they plunk down $35.00 for a yearly membership fee to ANY organization, that organization should treat them and respond to them as if they were million dollar donors. And if they don't get the treatment they feel they deserve, then they suddenly are at war with that organization. That is just how some people are. If you have been around long enough you probably already know this.
Besides, you have a whole lot of people who support the NRA. And as you and I both know you also have people who condemn the NRA. I am not good at internet forum debating so I can't/don't offer as good as an argument as someone who is practiced and skilled at that sort of thing. I don't have extensive data/facts/documented stories, etc. to support my case. But still, it is basically up to you to make your own decision. In my case, if I wanted to make such a decision I would start out looking closely at what has been happening locally regarding gun rights. Exactly who is the organization (s) that are working locally (state, city) to try and preserve your gun rights? Find out and that is one of the pro-gun organiztions you should diffently support.
Another way is to read the news. What organization (s) are working on a national level and getting into the news while trying to save your gun rights? For me is the NRA both locally and nationally as I posted in the post above. But I also have faith in the GOA and as a working adult I can easily afford to support them both with at least a yearly membership.
Also ask yourself exactly why some people will go around and spend EXTENSIVE effort condeming the NRA. Normally, if someone doesn't like a person/business/product, instead of launching a lifelong campaign trying to bring that thing down, most people just avoid interacting with it, warn a few friends and then move on to other things.
Just as with a new co-worker you might find yourself working with and you wonder what kind of person he/she is going to be. If people you trust that know that new co-worker reveal what negative information theyhave, you should probably put some trust into what they tell you. But if those co-workers go on and on and on harping about what a worthless, lousely person that new co-worker is, then you should start to doubt the judgement of that person who runs the new co-worker into the ground. Because ANYTIME someone will go on and on and on spewing out negative information about ANYTHING, that usually is a sign they have an ax to grind and you should look elsewhere for guidance.
tr- I think it would be a good idea to read the other posts on your thread about leaving the NRA's active support. I know you said you weren't going to read the "flaming" responses but I think you may be surprised to find what you read. If of course you haven't already read them, how you could not I'll never know. You have more willpower than I.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
TR, I can forgive the NRA of its past mistakes. Whether they be from 1934, 1968, or 1986. What I can't forgive them of is their continued bragging about the 1986 FOPA. Not only did their hero Reagan manage to outlaw all new machine guns, all handgun ammunition made primarily of steel, but the NRA brags of their FOPA as if it is the single greatest thing ever, and still brags of their "victory" of getting Reagan elected. Did they renounce the FOPA (or even just the anti-gun provision)? No. If they don't want to take back lost ground, they are merely trying to maintain the status quo.
It's not the $35.00 that is the problem. I'd give more to the GOA. But we all know how difficult it is to save up for an NRA priced MAC-10 at $3,000 or an NRA priced MP5K at $17,000.
If you truly believe that the NRA is worth saving, I really do hope you can do something. Somebody said about voting for the board of directors. That takes the cost of a five year membership to be one of four million votes, in the vain hope that somebody will listen to genuine concerns, and it just doesn't seem worth it, even though freedom is worth everything. One major comment:
I will give up all NRA bashing as soon as they renounce the FOPA's anti-gun provision, and try to at least allow registration of new full autos. Until then, open season on the comments.
quote:Originally posted by Comengetit
tr- I think it would be a good idea to read the other posts on your thread about leaving the NRA's active support. I know you said you weren't going to read the "flaming" responses but I think you may be surprised to find what you read. If of course you haven't already read them, how you could not I'll never know. You have more willpower than I.
Well, thanks for the "willpower" compliment. But I've done it before and I'll do it again. You've got to remember that these posts are nothing more than electrons lighting up your computer screen sent by people whom you might not even stand next to at a bus stop if you could see them for what they are (that statement could be aimed at me also). It ain't no big deal (usually) to ignore posts, insults, etc. as they barely exist in the real world.
quote:Originally posted by dsmith
TR, I can forgive the NRA of its past mistakes. Whether they be from 1934, 1968, or 1986. What I can't forgive them of is their continued bragging about the 1986 FOPA. Not only did their hero Reagan manage to outlaw all new machine guns, all handgun ammunition made primarily of steel, but the NRA brags of their FOPA as if it is the single greatest thing ever, and still brags of their "victory" of getting Reagan elected. Did they renounce the FOPA (or even just the anti-gun provision)? No. If they don't want to take back lost ground, they are merely trying to maintain the status quo.
It's not the $35.00 that is the problem. I'd give more to the GOA. But we all know how difficult it is to save up for an NRA priced MAC-10 at $3,000 or an NRA priced MP5K at $17,000.
If you truly believe that the NRA is worth saving, I really do hope you can do something. Somebody said about voting for the board of directors. That takes the cost of a five year membership to be one of four million votes, in the vain hope that somebody will listen to genuine concerns, and it just doesn't seem worth it, even though freedom is worth everything. One major comment:
I will give up all NRA bashing as soon as they renounce the FOPA's anti-gun provision, and try to at least allow registration of new full autos. Until then, open season on the comments.
So....ah...your're saying that....it won't be productive for me to mail you that $10.00 off NRA membership coupon?
quote:You've got to remember that these posts are nothing more than electrons lighting up your computer screen sent by people whom you might not even stand next to at a bus stop...It ain't no big deal (usually) to ignore posts, insults, etc. as they barely exist in the real world.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
nothing more than electrons lighting up your computer screen
That can bring "some" to the point of HATING someone else, in the "real world."
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
nothing more than electrons lighting up your computer screen
That can bring "some" to the point of HATING someone else, in the "real world."
Only if the "some" you refer to care what the "someone else" thinks or even considers that "someone else" an internet friend.
Final score: tr fox 1, pickenup 0
(hehehe! How I am able to do this I will NEVER know [:o)])
TR, you don't need to worry about sending me the NRA discount coupon. [:o)]
I truly would support a group that big if I was convinced that they would support me when things got bad. But with a 71 year track record of surrender (some say even longer), it's going to take a huge amount of convincing to get me back on their side.
quote:Originally posted by dsmith
TR, you don't need to worry about sending me the NRA discount coupon. [:o)]
I truly would support a group that big if I was convinced that they would support me when things got bad. But with a 71 year track record of surrender (some say even longer), it's going to take a huge amount of convincing to get me back on their side.
If the NRA had as many members as they should have from the 80 million gun owners in America, then just maybe they could come and support you when you need it. In the meantime they are like any business type situation that is running on pennies when they need dollars. They are very limited in what they can do.
quote:In the meantime they are like any business type situation that is running on pennies when they need dollars. They are very limited in what they can do.
I dunno, Fox. Even I have to balk at that one. There has got to be some cashflow running through that organization. They seem to have enough money to send out 3 million mailers practically every week. They gotta be raking in some dough for all that logo merchandise. I would be curious to know what their actual payroll is. I know they get mostly volunteers at local events, but how many actual paid staff does the NRA have and how much are they making? Any thought on how to get a hold of that info? How about general revenue and expense information? After all, we are all members so shouldn't that info be accessible to us?
quote:Originally posted by WoundedWolf
quote:In the meantime they are like any business type situation that is running on pennies when they need dollars. They are very limited in what they can do.
I dunno, Fox. Even I have to balk at that one. There has got to be some cashflow running through that organization. They seem to have enough money to send out 3 million mailers practically every week. They gotta be raking in some dough for all that logo merchandise. I would be curious to know what their actual payroll is. I know they get mostly volunteers at local events, but how many actual paid staff does the NRA have and how much are they making? Any thought on how to get a hold of that info? How about general revenue and expense information? After all, we are all members so shouldn't that info be accessible to us?
-Wolf
As a non-profit organization I am sure they have to file yearly financial reports with their state's agency that governs such organizations. Check on the internet for the address of the NRA state's government and contact them directly and get the latest copy of the NRA's financial statement.
I didn't actually mean that the NRA was a papuer, just that it takes a tremendous amount of money to run their organization and they have to be very careful how they spend their money. So it is difficult for the NRA to swope in and help and indivdual member. Just as membership in the more profitable AAA organization does not mean the AAA will come to your house and repair the air conditioner on you car. The money is just not there for such personal service.
quote:Originally posted by dsmith
Those articles are 2 years old. Has their situation improved?
If the NRA dies, do all of its favorite gun control laws die with it?
I admit that the NRA has/does make some mistakes. But please don't make it look like the NRA is out there every day urging the passage of more gun control laws. You know that is not true.
Let me just say this, I have contacted my senators, and representives from both the GOA site, and the nra site. I have never got A reply from when I contacted from the nra site, I recieve in the mail today my reply from useing the GOA site.
Strange that the GOA is warranting more responses.
I believe that the NRA could be a great organization, they just need to get their priorities straight. I think it is hypocritical of anybody to be in the NRA if they oppose one of its laws. For example, I oppose the NFA, GCA, and FOPA. While I can excuse the NFA and GCA as mistakes, I simply can't forgive the FOPA creating $17,000 MP5s. How can I say that I support the right to own reasonably prices subguns, and contribute to the group that opposed them. That's like saying I'm pro-life, and joining Planned Parenthood. Just doesn't mesh.
quote:Originally posted by dsmith
Strange that the GOA is warranting more responses.
I believe that the NRA could be a great organization, they just need to get their priorities straight. I think it is hypocritical of anybody to be in the NRA if they oppose one of its laws. For example, I oppose the NFA, GCA, and FOPA. While I can excuse the NFA and GCA as mistakes, I simply can't forgive the FOPA creating $17,000 MP5s. How can I say that I support the right to own reasonably prices subguns, and contribute to the group that opposed them. That's like saying I'm pro-life, and joining Planned Parenthood. Just doesn't mesh.
Well, OK, let's put together a petition demanding that that the NRA start doing a better job of responding to contacts from members.
It's not about that, it's about the money. It is always about the money and always will be. These guys are making a boat-load of money to head up the NRA and believe me, they are not hurting for cash. I believe Wayne LaPierre's salary was around $5,000,000 last year before bonuses. I'll have to recheck the number but it's close. I'll make anyone here a deal, I will go run the NRA for $5,000,000 a year and I promise there will be no more compromises and there will also be no more gun laws. There is just to many candy-pants boys and girls working on our behalf. Ted Nugent has already been labled a 'nut-case' so he is out. I'll do it, can you make that happen tr? I'll move wherever need be I'm sure my wife won't mind and you guys can all keep your guns, even get some of them back. With the kind of membership they have and the funds that they produce, this should be a no brainer. So why is it not being done "my" way? Because it is not in the best interest of job security, anyone that crushed all of the anti-gun laws would be causing a whole lot of folks at the NRA to lose their jobs. This does not lend itself to a condusive atmosphere for well being. I'm free starting tomorrow, with that kind of money, the first thing I would do is a media campaign and join up another 15,000,000 people. It's really quite simple..."Do you own a gun? Do you want to keep it?" then show a clip of a Bayou buddy being stripped of their arms in NOLA. Then simply point out taht if they want to be able to own and keep their gun, they need to, they must join now. The response over about a six month period would be staggering.
If membership could be boosted to 20,000,000, there would not be one single gun law on the books as the mere power of 20,000,000 people banded together for the same cause is a revolution of overwhelming preportions. The other side must fold up their tents and go home. Game, Set, Match!
Nail on the head.quote:Originally posted by Comengetit
It's not about that, it's about the money. It is always about the money and always will be. These guys are making a boat-load of money to head up the NRA and believe me, they are not hurting for cash. I believe Wayne LaPierre's salary was around $5,000,000 last year before bonuses. I'll have to recheck the number but it's close. I'll make anyone here a deal, I will go run the NRA for $5,000,000 a year and I promise there will be no more compromises and there will also be no more gun laws. There is just to many candy-pants boys and girls working on our behalf. Ted Nugent has already been labled a 'nut-case' so he is out. I'll do it, can you make that happen tr? I'll move wherever need be I'm sure my wife won't mind and you guys can all keep your guns, even get some of them back. With the kind of membership they have and the funds that they produce, this should be a no brainer. So why is it not being done "my" way? Because it is not in the best interest of job security, anyone that crushed all of the anti-gun laws would be causing a whole lot of folks at the NRA to lose their jobs. This does not lend itself to a condusive atmosphere for well being. I'm free starting tomorrow, with that kind of money, the first thing I would do is a media campaign and join up another 15,000,000 people. It's really quite simple..."Do you own a gun? Do you want to keep it?" then show a clip of a Bayou buddy being stripped of their arms in NOLA. Then simply point out taht if they want to be able to own and keep their gun, they need to, they must join now. The response over about a six month period would be staggering.
If membership could be boosted to 20,000,000, there would not be one single gun law on the books as the mere power of 20,000,000 people banded together for the same cause is a revolution of overwhelming preportions. The other side must fold up their tents and go home. Game, Set, Match!
Hey, Comengetit, remember that movie you were pitching? Maybe we were thinking too big. I like your media campaign idea. You ever see those 15 second United Way commercials during NFL games? That is what we should be aiming for. I think it would fit the right demographic too, that and Nascar races.
I think if you can find a good 10 second video clip of somebody getting their gun taken away in NOLA, then a 5 second black screen with your slogan, "Do you own a gun? Do you want to keep it?", and an 800 number to join now, then you would probably get a pretty good response.
I say shop it to NRA and GOA. If they will fund you even $250,000 then you could probably do it. The commercial would cost all of about $5,000 to make, the rest would be advertising cost. How much you think a 15 second spot costs during a football game or Nascar?
WW, I hate to say it, but I'm pretty certain the Nazi Broadcastin Company (NBC) and the Communist Broadcasting Company (CBS) as well as ABC are anti-gun companies who refuse to air pro-gun commercials. Same thing with hard liquor.
quote:Originally posted by dsmith
I think it is hypocritical of anybody to be in the NRA if they oppose one of its laws.
dsmith, one reason that I can think of.
If you want to CHANGE the way they do things, you can not vote in new officers, if you are not a member. NOT saying it will help. [;)]
I tried contacting the NRA when I was a member. I asked them if there was anything they were planning to do about fixing the gun ban in the FOPA. Their response is that the battle has gone over to the semi-autos, and that it is a bad idea to mention full autos.
I wanted to scream at them "Of course the battle is at semi-autos; you gave up on full autos!!!"
I could vote for the board of directors, but that would require a five year membership. I don't feel like paying that kind of cash. I don't know if it is true, but I read somewhere that 60% of NRA members opposed the AWB. That means that 40% supported it. If the board of directors has to keep enough of the members happy, what are the odds that somebody who is pro-machine gun will even be nominated. They were walking a pretty fine line with some of their members even talking about the semi-auto look alikes.
TR will be quick to point out that we need all of the friends we can get. I respect TR, and think he is a good supporter and friend. However, I don't know if I would consider the NRA to be a friend if they have no intention of repealing the old FOPA restrictions, and have mixed opinions about the AWB.
Comments
I sincerely wish the NRA members that are trying to make a difference the best of luck. It always enraged me to see the advertisements in American Rifleman advertising the AR-15s, and (gasp) a neutered Thompson submachinegun. Keeping in mind that the NRA didn't stick up for the thousands of non-violent Thompson owners when they had the chance in 1934. True, it would be nice to have huge gun groups, and to never give up on any of them, but I just can't help but look at the $17,000 MP5K that I want, and know that the NRA feels great about the FOPA which raised its price to astronomical levels.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=41812809
I am not concerned with the "efficiency" of any particular group. The NRA could be 100% efficient, or 1% efficient. I would support them if I was convinced that they were on my side. I have tried directing my complaints toward them when I was a member, and got the standard responses...we don't endorse gun control...we didn't support the anti-gun provision of the FOPA, but we will take credit for all the good things it does...etc. I know that there hasn't been a single president in my lifetime that hasn't signed some kind of gun control law. However, Clinton was the only one NRA opposed.
I sincerely wish the NRA members that are trying to make a difference the best of luck. It always enraged me to see the advertisements in American Rifleman advertising the AR-15s, and (gasp) a neutered Thompson submachinegun. Keeping in mind that the NRA didn't stick up for the thousands of non-violent Thompson owners when they had the chance in 1934. True, it would be nice to have huge gun groups, and to never give up on any of them, but I just can't help but look at the $17,000 MP5K that I want, and know that the NRA feels great about the FOPA which raised its price to astronomical levels.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=41812809
Since the 1934 that you mention, a lot of different things have changed. The NRA total leadership has turned over numerous times. Just as has the US government leadership. Surely you wouldn't blame the modern US govt. for mistakes made in 1934?
And what two (the only two) organizations filed a lawsuit that stopped and reveresed the New Orleans gun confistactions after Hurricane katrina? And what single organization has filed a lawsuit trying to void the San Franscisco vote that outlawed ownership of handguns and the sale and manufacturere of ALL guns and ammo in that city? What one organization finally, after fighting for years, forced Misssouri to isssue concealed carry? And what organiztion finaly got KS to pass a concealed carry law vetoed by the governor? If I wanted to research it I could go on and on. It was the NRA.
There is no way I want to do anything to weaken the NRA. If I want changes I will still encourage gun owners to continue to join and support the NRA, if for no other reason than what I have posted above, and then I will argue directly with the NRA leadership to make changes.
In military boot camp there is one exercise that remains me of something like this. The drill instructor has about 8 recruits pickup and hold a big, heavy log over their head. If that log is dropped on any one person, it will seriously injure that person. So if any one person holding that log doesn't like the way the excerise (or the boot camp) is being run, the the best way to survive is NOT to try and discourage his fellow recruits, helping him hold that log, from dropping or even drooping that log. That obviously would be counter-productive.
The correct way to deal with the problem is to find a way to get the drill instructor or camp commander to change the way the excerise is run.
So it is with public criticism of the NRA. And if you contact the NRA top dogs directly and get no response, then contact one (or more) of the large group of the board of directors. If that doesn't work, then type up your complaint in the form of a petition about the NRA and go to a gun show or stand outside a sporting good store and ask for as many signatures as you can get. Hell, if your petition states something I agree with, I'll sign it. I might even stand outside the store with you and help you gather signutures.
But constantly just running down the NRA to other gun owners and/or in public helps the anti-gun crowd more than you help the pro-gun crowd.
Then some members who publicly bashed the NRA on the forums pointed out the flaws. I joined the GOA as a result. Now I am free of the group that has sold me out, and with a group that I virtually always agree with. It may be conceivable that the GOA will make mistakes, even major ones, but they publicly oppose every anti-gun law, and would repeal as many as they can.
Because of those who bashed the NRA, I increased the power of the GOA by 1/350,000th instead of merely boosting the NRA by 1/4,000,000th. Boosting the percentage of GOA members who don't compromise by a larger amount than the number of compromisers by a smaller percentage.
In regards to your haven been "enlightened" about how awful the NRA is, please remember that it is human nature that we will always find people who are against ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING just because that is the way they are. In addition, some people have a very big opinion of themselves and they tend to think that just because they plunk down $35.00 for a yearly membership fee to ANY organization, that organization should treat them and respond to them as if they were million dollar donors. And if they don't get the treatment they feel they deserve, then they suddenly are at war with that organization. That is just how some people are. If you have been around long enough you probably already know this.
Besides, you have a whole lot of people who support the NRA. And as you and I both know you also have people who condemn the NRA. I am not good at internet forum debating so I can't/don't offer as good as an argument as someone who is practiced and skilled at that sort of thing. I don't have extensive data/facts/documented stories, etc. to support my case. But still, it is basically up to you to make your own decision. In my case, if I wanted to make such a decision I would start out looking closely at what has been happening locally regarding gun rights. Exactly who is the organization (s) that are working locally (state, city) to try and preserve your gun rights? Find out and that is one of the pro-gun organiztions you should diffently support.
Another way is to read the news. What organization (s) are working on a national level and getting into the news while trying to save your gun rights? For me is the NRA both locally and nationally as I posted in the post above. But I also have faith in the GOA and as a working adult I can easily afford to support them both with at least a yearly membership.
Also ask yourself exactly why some people will go around and spend EXTENSIVE effort condeming the NRA. Normally, if someone doesn't like a person/business/product, instead of launching a lifelong campaign trying to bring that thing down, most people just avoid interacting with it, warn a few friends and then move on to other things.
Just as with a new co-worker you might find yourself working with and you wonder what kind of person he/she is going to be. If people you trust that know that new co-worker reveal what negative information theyhave, you should probably put some trust into what they tell you. But if those co-workers go on and on and on harping about what a worthless, lousely person that new co-worker is, then you should start to doubt the judgement of that person who runs the new co-worker into the ground. Because ANYTIME someone will go on and on and on spewing out negative information about ANYTHING, that usually is a sign they have an ax to grind and you should look elsewhere for guidance.
JMHO
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
It's not the $35.00 that is the problem. I'd give more to the GOA. But we all know how difficult it is to save up for an NRA priced MAC-10 at $3,000 or an NRA priced MP5K at $17,000.
If you truly believe that the NRA is worth saving, I really do hope you can do something. Somebody said about voting for the board of directors. That takes the cost of a five year membership to be one of four million votes, in the vain hope that somebody will listen to genuine concerns, and it just doesn't seem worth it, even though freedom is worth everything. One major comment:
I will give up all NRA bashing as soon as they renounce the FOPA's anti-gun provision, and try to at least allow registration of new full autos. Until then, open season on the comments.
tr- I think it would be a good idea to read the other posts on your thread about leaving the NRA's active support. I know you said you weren't going to read the "flaming" responses but I think you may be surprised to find what you read. If of course you haven't already read them, how you could not I'll never know. You have more willpower than I.
Well, thanks for the "willpower" compliment. But I've done it before and I'll do it again. You've got to remember that these posts are nothing more than electrons lighting up your computer screen sent by people whom you might not even stand next to at a bus stop if you could see them for what they are (that statement could be aimed at me also). It ain't no big deal (usually) to ignore posts, insults, etc. as they barely exist in the real world.
TR, I can forgive the NRA of its past mistakes. Whether they be from 1934, 1968, or 1986. What I can't forgive them of is their continued bragging about the 1986 FOPA. Not only did their hero Reagan manage to outlaw all new machine guns, all handgun ammunition made primarily of steel, but the NRA brags of their FOPA as if it is the single greatest thing ever, and still brags of their "victory" of getting Reagan elected. Did they renounce the FOPA (or even just the anti-gun provision)? No. If they don't want to take back lost ground, they are merely trying to maintain the status quo.
It's not the $35.00 that is the problem. I'd give more to the GOA. But we all know how difficult it is to save up for an NRA priced MAC-10 at $3,000 or an NRA priced MP5K at $17,000.
If you truly believe that the NRA is worth saving, I really do hope you can do something. Somebody said about voting for the board of directors. That takes the cost of a five year membership to be one of four million votes, in the vain hope that somebody will listen to genuine concerns, and it just doesn't seem worth it, even though freedom is worth everything. One major comment:
I will give up all NRA bashing as soon as they renounce the FOPA's anti-gun provision, and try to at least allow registration of new full autos. Until then, open season on the comments.
So....ah...your're saying that....it won't be productive for me to mail you that $10.00 off NRA membership coupon?
So true, my friend, so true.
nothing more than electrons lighting up your computer screen
That can bring "some" to the point of HATING someone else, in the "real world."
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
nothing more than electrons lighting up your computer screen
That can bring "some" to the point of HATING someone else, in the "real world."
Only if the "some" you refer to care what the "someone else" thinks or even considers that "someone else" an internet friend.
Final score: tr fox 1, pickenup 0
(hehehe! How I am able to do this I will NEVER know [:o)])
I truly would support a group that big if I was convinced that they would support me when things got bad. But with a 71 year track record of surrender (some say even longer), it's going to take a huge amount of convincing to get me back on their side.
TR, you don't need to worry about sending me the NRA discount coupon. [:o)]
I truly would support a group that big if I was convinced that they would support me when things got bad. But with a 71 year track record of surrender (some say even longer), it's going to take a huge amount of convincing to get me back on their side.
If the NRA had as many members as they should have from the 80 million gun owners in America, then just maybe they could come and support you when you need it. In the meantime they are like any business type situation that is running on pennies when they need dollars. They are very limited in what they can do.
I dunno, Fox. Even I have to balk at that one. There has got to be some cashflow running through that organization. They seem to have enough money to send out 3 million mailers practically every week. They gotta be raking in some dough for all that logo merchandise. I would be curious to know what their actual payroll is. I know they get mostly volunteers at local events, but how many actual paid staff does the NRA have and how much are they making? Any thought on how to get a hold of that info? How about general revenue and expense information? After all, we are all members so shouldn't that info be accessible to us?
-Wolf
http://www.jointogether.org/sa/action/dt/news/reader/0,2812,568313,00.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/a/2003/12/21/MNGPS3RSHU1.DTL
If the NRA dies, do all of its favorite gun control laws die with it?
quote:In the meantime they are like any business type situation that is running on pennies when they need dollars. They are very limited in what they can do.
I dunno, Fox. Even I have to balk at that one. There has got to be some cashflow running through that organization. They seem to have enough money to send out 3 million mailers practically every week. They gotta be raking in some dough for all that logo merchandise. I would be curious to know what their actual payroll is. I know they get mostly volunteers at local events, but how many actual paid staff does the NRA have and how much are they making? Any thought on how to get a hold of that info? How about general revenue and expense information? After all, we are all members so shouldn't that info be accessible to us?
-Wolf
As a non-profit organization I am sure they have to file yearly financial reports with their state's agency that governs such organizations. Check on the internet for the address of the NRA state's government and contact them directly and get the latest copy of the NRA's financial statement.
I didn't actually mean that the NRA was a papuer, just that it takes a tremendous amount of money to run their organization and they have to be very careful how they spend their money. So it is difficult for the NRA to swope in and help and indivdual member. Just as membership in the more profitable AAA organization does not mean the AAA will come to your house and repair the air conditioner on you car. The money is just not there for such personal service.
Those articles are 2 years old. Has their situation improved?
If the NRA dies, do all of its favorite gun control laws die with it?
I admit that the NRA has/does make some mistakes. But please don't make it look like the NRA is out there every day urging the passage of more gun control laws. You know that is not true.
I believe that the NRA could be a great organization, they just need to get their priorities straight. I think it is hypocritical of anybody to be in the NRA if they oppose one of its laws. For example, I oppose the NFA, GCA, and FOPA. While I can excuse the NFA and GCA as mistakes, I simply can't forgive the FOPA creating $17,000 MP5s. How can I say that I support the right to own reasonably prices subguns, and contribute to the group that opposed them. That's like saying I'm pro-life, and joining Planned Parenthood. Just doesn't mesh.
Strange that the GOA is warranting more responses.
I believe that the NRA could be a great organization, they just need to get their priorities straight. I think it is hypocritical of anybody to be in the NRA if they oppose one of its laws. For example, I oppose the NFA, GCA, and FOPA. While I can excuse the NFA and GCA as mistakes, I simply can't forgive the FOPA creating $17,000 MP5s. How can I say that I support the right to own reasonably prices subguns, and contribute to the group that opposed them. That's like saying I'm pro-life, and joining Planned Parenthood. Just doesn't mesh.
Well, OK, let's put together a petition demanding that that the NRA start doing a better job of responding to contacts from members.
If membership could be boosted to 20,000,000, there would not be one single gun law on the books as the mere power of 20,000,000 people banded together for the same cause is a revolution of overwhelming preportions. The other side must fold up their tents and go home. Game, Set, Match!
It's not about that, it's about the money. It is always about the money and always will be. These guys are making a boat-load of money to head up the NRA and believe me, they are not hurting for cash. I believe Wayne LaPierre's salary was around $5,000,000 last year before bonuses. I'll have to recheck the number but it's close. I'll make anyone here a deal, I will go run the NRA for $5,000,000 a year and I promise there will be no more compromises and there will also be no more gun laws. There is just to many candy-pants boys and girls working on our behalf. Ted Nugent has already been labled a 'nut-case' so he is out. I'll do it, can you make that happen tr? I'll move wherever need be I'm sure my wife won't mind and you guys can all keep your guns, even get some of them back. With the kind of membership they have and the funds that they produce, this should be a no brainer. So why is it not being done "my" way? Because it is not in the best interest of job security, anyone that crushed all of the anti-gun laws would be causing a whole lot of folks at the NRA to lose their jobs. This does not lend itself to a condusive atmosphere for well being. I'm free starting tomorrow, with that kind of money, the first thing I would do is a media campaign and join up another 15,000,000 people. It's really quite simple..."Do you own a gun? Do you want to keep it?" then show a clip of a Bayou buddy being stripped of their arms in NOLA. Then simply point out taht if they want to be able to own and keep their gun, they need to, they must join now. The response over about a six month period would be staggering.
If membership could be boosted to 20,000,000, there would not be one single gun law on the books as the mere power of 20,000,000 people banded together for the same cause is a revolution of overwhelming preportions. The other side must fold up their tents and go home. Game, Set, Match!
I think if you can find a good 10 second video clip of somebody getting their gun taken away in NOLA, then a 5 second black screen with your slogan, "Do you own a gun? Do you want to keep it?", and an 800 number to join now, then you would probably get a pretty good response.
I say shop it to NRA and GOA. If they will fund you even $250,000 then you could probably do it. The commercial would cost all of about $5,000 to make, the rest would be advertising cost. How much you think a 15 second spot costs during a football game or Nascar?
-Wolf
I think it is hypocritical of anybody to be in the NRA if they oppose one of its laws.
dsmith, one reason that I can think of.
If you want to CHANGE the way they do things, you can not vote in new officers, if you are not a member. NOT saying it will help. [;)]
I wanted to scream at them "Of course the battle is at semi-autos; you gave up on full autos!!!"
I could vote for the board of directors, but that would require a five year membership. I don't feel like paying that kind of cash. I don't know if it is true, but I read somewhere that 60% of NRA members opposed the AWB. That means that 40% supported it. If the board of directors has to keep enough of the members happy, what are the odds that somebody who is pro-machine gun will even be nominated. They were walking a pretty fine line with some of their members even talking about the semi-auto look alikes.
TR will be quick to point out that we need all of the friends we can get. I respect TR, and think he is a good supporter and friend. However, I don't know if I would consider the NRA to be a friend if they have no intention of repealing the old FOPA restrictions, and have mixed opinions about the AWB.