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I have never posted here, or even read in this section before, but would like to throw in a few thoughts.
The words "people" were used in the 2nd. Amendment,......we are people. Militia is also used,.......militia for what? Our founding fathers were trying to set up a government that allowed protections against what they had fought to eliminate. How does anyone know that they meant only a militia for the protection of the existing government,.........a militia could also be used to protect the "nation" against an out of control leadership itself. In the days when the constitution was written, obviously we did not have full auto AK-47's or RPG's, etc.,............why does anyone assume that the founding fathers would have excluded those possibly necessary items from ownership, and use for the militias purposes.
I abide by the laws, and have a CCW in a friendly state (Florida), but believe that it is unconstitutional. NICS checks,........have had too many to remember, but what false sense of security does one derive from them? Criminals do not obey the laws to begin with, so no protection on that front! They buy their guns out of trunks, and steal them from the homes they break into. All a NICS does is give a revenue stream to the government. As far as the few non-criminals that "crack" over a domestic issue usually,.......the waiting period, and background check is useless! If a crazy guy is willing to kill his girlfriend or wife, he is going to cut her head off before he will wait to pick up a handgun. Strangulation, beating to death, chainsaws, name anything of thousands of ways to kill someone if you are so inclined.
I belong to the NRA also,............wish they stood up for what they were founded for. I belong for two reasons,.......first I am a member of a range that requires membership, second they do some good. I also write, and call the politicos for what it is worth. I am glad to live where I do, as Florida is fairly gun friendly, and we are close to making it so that businesses, and employers, can no longer make people that have CCW, leave their weapons at home, because they are not allowed to be left in the employees vehicle during the day, rendering their CCW useless!
I am afraid of no honest person with whatever firearm they choose to have, but I AM afraid of what may happen if we continue down the path to full blown Socialism, and the danger we will all face if our rights are lost. I know this has been used to death, but who do you think will still have firearms if the government ever succeeds in their real wishes? The military, to keep us under proper control, and make sure we hand over our money, and the criminals, and murderers, to victimize, and rape us, and our families!
The second amendment is CLEAR to me, and why some folks make it confusing is beyond me.
Take Care
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
Good post, Marc.
I have a point or two for your consideration...
The NRA was actually founded to teach civilian marksmanship...not lobby congress.
They did a splendid job of teaching young people to shoot...as lobbyists they absolutely suck.
People make the Second Amendment confusing because the plain truth is entirely too stark.
The Second Amendment is designed to protect the PEOPLE from the GOVERNMENT...forever and ever.
How do we know a government is going bad ? SIMPLE.
They institute laws restricting firearms.
Thanks, Marc. A lot of truth in your post, and very good observations.
quote:The NRA was actually founded to teach civilian marksmanship...not lobby congress.
They did a splendid job of teaching young people to shoot...as lobbyists they absolutely suck.
Excellent summary, Highball. The only addition I would make regarding today's NRA is the role of the gun manufacturers in the NRA's lobbying efforts. We all pay our $35 bucks a year so that the NRA can lobby for Ruger, Colt, S&W, etc. We get raped in NRA dues so that we can also get raped in the gun shop. The manufacturers don't give flying monkey crap about the 2nd Amendment, they just want to keep us buying more guns and accessories. And remember, the BATFE is part of the TREASURY DEPARTMENT. They are a TAX COLLECTING ENTITY. The manufacturers have no problem with the government taking its share.
NRA, gun manufacturers, and BATFE are NOT looking out for us individuals' gun rights.
Gotta throw a comment out on this thread, since it was started in regards as to the manor in which Highball posts. Is it (at times) abrasive? To some, yes. Does it drive "some" away? Undoubtedly. But you have to admit, like him or hate him, he gets your attention.
Consider other members here at GB. (example) What is the view of member "xxxx" on "this or that" topic? What are the views of member "yyyy"? With Highball, he leaves no doubt as to his views. Taking a HARD stance here, where members are quick to criticize, condemn, and disparage members with a different point of view than theirs, can`t be easy. While I don't always agree 100% with what he says, I have to admire his tenacity in the face of some of the vicious attacks on his individuality.
Would there be more traffic in this forum if he didn't post here? Possibly. But then, if a man doesn't have thick enough skin, to look beyond ONE man's posts, would he really be a contributing member? Many men post here, some agree with Highball, some don't, but they are MEN. Ready to speak their minds, provide facts for their side of the issue, discuss topics in a civilized manor, listen to opposing views and willing to change their minds if the facts substantiate it.
Sheeple will always cringe away from subjects they dislike. Cold hard facts can scare the living daylights out of them. Especially when they don't see a path that will set things right. They will run away, to cower in their safe little environment, blissfully unaware of the harsh realities of the world. Are those types really needed here?
I'm glad to see that this post has generated a lot of feedback. It means that people are at least thinking. Hopefully it will get people acting as well.
I'm curious as to what some of you guys do when purchasing a new firearm. If I'm buying something from a dealer, I'm pretty much stuck with filling out a 4473 and going through the currently required hoops. Do I think this is right ? No. But that leaves the choice of don't get it, or do what I need to do. Fortunately most of what sparks my interests are the antiques, and there is no paperwork required for them.
I also will engage in private face to face sales whenever possible.
But seriously, is there any limit to which some of you would restrict private ownership ? Also, do you only deal in face to face sales, or do you go through the currently required steps from dealers ? Or the third option would be to become skilled and equipped enough to make your own.
I've posted before that I see no reason why people shouldn't be able to own artillery. If they have a sizeable chunk of land accessible, and want to wing shells downrange, then by all means enjoy. If they live in an urban setting, then there is no problem until they start lobbing rounds into the neighbors apartments.
I fully support unrestricted ownership of fully automatic firearms. The only thing that the 1986 ban did was make them prohibitively expensive. I still fail to understand the difference in an 18" barrel shotgun, and a 17" barrel. Why am I in trouble if my stereo is loud, but also in trouble if my rifle is quiet ?
As far as my limits ? I would say nukes and biological or chemical should be restricted. I have a hard time drawing limits beyond that. My only concern would be the safety of the surrounding area in case of an "oops". That would be for the ammunition, not the delivery system. If someone has a 16" gun from a WWII Battleship, I see no problem. If they have a stockpile of HE rounds for it, and they live within 30 feet of me, I'd be a little concerned. If they live on a 70 square mile ranch in Montana, then by all means, enjoy.
If someone lives within 30 feet of me and has a huge collection of full autos, then I am going to make every attempt to become his newest shooting buddy.
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:And; if you think a AUTO AK-47 should be allowed onto a flight and its OK for guns to be carried by folks in criminal proceedings you simply lack the common sense God gave you; or are unwilling to be intellectually honest. Prohibiting weapons on a flight or in courts is not unconstitutional; it is everyday common sense.
OK, what say you to this, then???
Now, what was that you were saying about common sense?? Apparently, common sense is a little more uncommon that you'd have us to believe. I'll choose conventional wisdom over "common" sense, any day!!!
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
I wholeheartedly concur that if the good guys are armed the bad guys are way outnumbered and gonna lose, big time. However, since we face somewhere around 150,000,000 radical Muslims in this world that becomes a problem for us. See, they think that think dying as they kill you and yours is a wonderful idea. That makes traveling rather problematic don't ya think?
There would not be a commercial aircraft left in one piece if we let every Tom, Dick and Hairy on board with guns locked and loaded. Not all folks on this globe are as rational as you and I. We tend to live and let live; they want us to die along with them.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Continuing to blame the gun instead of the individual.
A favorite ploy of the anti-gunners.
We have incompetent boobs handling gun today...we have vicious animals roaming the streets with guns..and we refuse to demand proper punishment for them.
Instead we demand decent citizens obey edicts from on high..edicts that contravene the Constitution.
Flying ? A private company..they have the right to do about what they will. Did the American people have ANY blood running in their veins from the Founders...they would have bankrupted the airlines by refusing to fly again...as I have.
Because you and your type of 'thought processes' have allowed guns to be demonized, by not demanding REAL punishment for the misuse of firearms..is not sufficient grounds for you and your henchmen in the NRA and Congress to infringe upon MY Rights.
Why do you not fly? Most airlines are bankrupt. The big boys that built the world's air travel are all gone.
Because you and your type of 'thought processes' have allowed guns to be demonized, by not demanding REAL punishment for the misuse of firearms..is not sufficient grounds for you and your henchmen in the NRA and Congress to infringe upon MY Rights.
Take a freekin valium man. I have been demanding real punishment for violent crimes committed with guns for 35 years. Where do you get off telling me I do less than you do to defend my rights? I have not "allowed" anything you self righteous tweetie bird....What the hell have you done that actually accomplished something to preserve our rights except run your mouth on this forum??
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
The odds of a single bullet bringing down an airliner are slim to none.....try again
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
The odds of a single bullet bringing down an airliner are slim to none.....try again
Oh; so now you are an aircraft expert? true a single bullet may not directly cause the plane to crash but cascading effects sure can. It is a well documented fact and simply not worth the risk to passengers to have a bunch of guns going off inside the cabin at 37,000 feet.
One consequence of cabin pressurization is that the pressure inside the airplane may be 10 psi (700 millibars or hPa), while the pressure outside is barely above 2 psi (15 kilopascals, 140 millibars). A harmless pinhole under these pressure differences will generate a high-pitched squeal as the air leaks out at supersonic speeds[citation needed]. A hole five feet across will depressurize a jetliner in a fraction of a second.
Gradual or slow decompression is dangerous because it may not be detected.
Rapid decompression is a change in cabin pressure where the lungs can decompress faster than the cabin.
Explosive decompression is a change in cabin pressure faster than the lungs can decompress (less than 0.5 seconds). This type of decompression is potentially dangerous and often results in lung damage and unsecured items / debris flying around the cabin.
Rapid decompression of commercial aircraft is extremely rare, but dangerous. People directly next to a very large hole may be blown out or injured by flying debris. Floors and internal panels may deform. Hypoxia will result in loss of consciousness without emergency oxygen. Onset of hypoxia-induced unconsciousness varies depending on the altitude:
Additionally, the air temperature will plummet due to expansion, potentially resulting in frostbite.
Contrary to Hollywood myth, as seen in the James Bond film, Goldfinger, people just a few feet from the hole are more at risk from hypoxia than from being sucked out.
Contrary to Hollywood myth, a bullet hole in a window, or even the loss of an entire passenger window, will not cause explosive decompression. This was demonstrated on MythBusters. However, such damage may cascade into catastrophic aircraft failure, when metal fatigue is factored in.
Thanks for the info on the original purpose of the NRA,.......so I guess they ARE still doing what they were founded for! I think I am going to also join GOA, since it seems their purpose is a bit different, unfortunately too few members, but that can change.
As far as the other posters question about what other folks do when buying firearms,.........I do what I have to do, have no other choice really. Even though I have a CCW, which requires a thorough background check, and fingerprinting, I still must go through another "simple" check everytime I purchase another one new. Tell me that isn't simply about the fee![}:)] I do get to bypass the 3 day waiting period on a handgun though, but by God, they are going to get their money.
Also a point that some here may not have given thought to. In a state like Florida, we have the waiting period for handguns, and the background checks, but there is supposedly no real "registration". Granted the FFL dealer has all the info in his books,.........but a lot of people send in the little white "warranty" cards to the manufacturer with all of their personal info on it. How easy for a government agency to subpoena the manufacturers records, and gather even more info on the folks that have purchased, what they purchased, and where they live! I never send those things in, as it is against the law to require registration, to abide by a warranty![;)] Sure that most of you do the same, but just throwing out a tidbit for thought.
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
Although Highball and I do not see eye to eye on the main point (I have even once called him a 'zealot') I do respect his opinion, and frankly have moved towards his line of thinking since that earlier exchange. I, for example, agree with the way form 4473 is structured in that it defers to state law in the determination of a person's fitness to own a firearm. I do not believe that the Federal Government has the Constitutional authority to make any laws regarding types of weapons, calibers, functionality etc.
I firmly believe the all or nothing approach offends the majority to the point that our rights will not be taken seriously, which opens the door to the incremental incursions we have seen for the past 50+ years. I have recently bought into his thinking, however, that we do need a 2nd Amendment Pearl Harbor to actually achieve significant success in rolling back the myriad of gun laws that are now in place.
Every movement needs purists, those that hold to the ideal and show the rest of us the example that a perfect system would allow. Every movement also needs realists that swallow hard at a setback and continue to move forward in meaningful ways with practical methods. The purist will call that selling out, causing realists to reflect. This is exactly why purists are needed.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:And; if you think a AUTO AK-47 should be allowed onto a flight and its OK for guns to be carried by folks in criminal proceedings you simply lack the common sense God gave you; or are unwilling to be intellectually honest. Prohibiting weapons on a flight or in courts is not unconstitutional; it is everyday common sense.
OK, what say you to this, then???
Now, what was that you were saying about common sense?? Apparently, common sense is a little more uncommon that you'd have us to believe. I'll choose conventional wisdom over "common" sense, any day!!!
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
I wholeheartedly concur that if the good guys are armed the bad guys are way outnumbered and gonna lose, big time. However, since we face somewhere around 150,000,000 radical Muslims in this world that becomes a problem for us. See, they think that think dying as they kill you and yours is a wonderful idea. That makes traveling rather problematic don't ya think?
There would not be a commercial aircraft left in one piece if we let every Tom, Dick and Hairy on board with guns locked and loaded. Not all folks on this globe are as rational as you and I. We tend to live and let live; they want us to die along with them.
Welcome to the real world, where anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing.
Will a single bullet bring down a plane?? Unless it hits a fuel line or some major component like that, Nope!! There have been turboprop blades that have gashed a 6 foot long foot wide opening in the hull of a larger plane as a blade hit something, and the plane landed safely.
What happens when a cabin depressurizes?? Air masks come down. Why? For the same reason you mentioned... lack of oxygen in the cabin.
So, I suppose it would be a real inconvenient truth to call to your attention that the ceiling for most of our air liners is 25,000 feet, right???
And I will also say the idea that hostage taking is something I would rather crash a plane over than let them do what they have to do. Fortunately, Richard Reid didn't get off so easily. I still say they should have executed him with a small charge of explosive tied to his neck while he was up to his waste in pig crap, and blow his head clean off. No virgins for you, stupid!!!
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:And; if you think a AUTO AK-47 should be allowed onto a flight and its OK for guns to be carried by folks in criminal proceedings you simply lack the common sense God gave you; or are unwilling to be intellectually honest. Prohibiting weapons on a flight or in courts is not unconstitutional; it is everyday common sense.
OK, what say you to this, then???
Now, what was that you were saying about common sense?? Apparently, common sense is a little more uncommon that you'd have us to believe. I'll choose conventional wisdom over "common" sense, any day!!!
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
I wholeheartedly concur that if the good guys are armed the bad guys are way outnumbered and gonna lose, big time. However, since we face somewhere around 150,000,000 radical Muslims in this world that becomes a problem for us. See, they think that think dying as they kill you and yours is a wonderful idea. That makes traveling rather problematic don't ya think?
There would not be a commercial aircraft left in one piece if we let every Tom, Dick and Hairy on board with guns locked and loaded. Not all folks on this globe are as rational as you and I. We tend to live and let live; they want us to die along with them.
Welcome to the real world, where anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing.
Will a single bullet bring down a plane?? Unless it hits a fuel line or some major component like that, Nope!! There have been turboprop blades that have gashed a 6 foot long foot wide opening in the hull of a larger plane as a blade hit something, and the plane landed safely.
What happens when a cabin depressurizes?? Air masks come down. Why? For the same reason you mentioned... lack of oxygen in the cabin.
So, I suppose it would be a real inconvenient truth to call to your attention that the ceiling for most of our air liners is 25,000 feet, right???
And I will also say the idea that hostage taking is something I would rather crash a plane over than let them do what they have to do. Fortunately, Richard Reid didn't get off so easily. I still say they should have executed him with a small charge of explosive tied to his neck while he was up to his waste in pig crap, and blow his head clean off. No virgins for you, stupid!!!
I agree 100 percent with you on Reid. PLUS the Gitmo guys should get a summary execution for being out of uniform on the field of battle that would stop the whiners about their supposed rights..
It is also painfully obvious that you do not fly much. Most passenger jets do indeed fly at 35-39,000 feet. Since I routinely flew 60,000 plus miles a year in Alaska I am quite familiar with the space under my butt and mother earth. [:D]
Also; the O2 masks are almost worthless at that altitude. There is not enough atmospheric pressure do allow the absorption of the O2 into your blood.
Welcome to the real world, where anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing.
In the real world we all get dead, doing whatever you happen to be doing at the time of check out is irrelevant.
It's a rather windy but nice day outside; I'm gonna take a break and shoot for a while. You all have fun and behave yourselves until I return. [8D][:)][:D][;)][:o)][:D]
Filling out forms, CCW's, ect. are all things that a sane person does, when faced with tyranny.
The difference between being a servant of the Elites and a freeman obeying edicts is the KNOWLEGE that you are bowing to tyranny...versus the pathetic "well, if it saves one life, its a good thing " B.S.....
When faced with overwhelming firepower, and very little support from other people, one MUST bow the knee.
The KEY, however, is keeping the knowledge alive about what freedom IS...and isn't....
Bpost..please don't reveal any more ignorance about air planes. I was a mechanic on them for 20 years. A single bullet..or several bullets..have as much chance of bringing down a jetliner as a flea does an elephant.
Ever heard of an 'outflow valve' ? Got any idea what diameter that thing is.??
As far as your participation in the gun rights fight...apparently your fight consists of aiding and abeting gun control laws...since you have such a hard time reading and understanding the Constitution, apparent by your continuing rabid attacks upon REAl Second Amendment supporters...
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:And; if you think a AUTO AK-47 should be allowed onto a flight and its OK for guns to be carried by folks in criminal proceedings you simply lack the common sense God gave you; or are unwilling to be intellectually honest. Prohibiting weapons on a flight or in courts is not unconstitutional; it is everyday common sense.
OK, what say you to this, then???
Now, what was that you were saying about common sense?? Apparently, common sense is a little more uncommon that you'd have us to believe. I'll choose conventional wisdom over "common" sense, any day!!!
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
I wholeheartedly concur that if the good guys are armed the bad guys are way outnumbered and gonna lose, big time. However, since we face somewhere around 150,000,000 radical Muslims in this world that becomes a problem for us. See, they think that think dying as they kill you and yours is a wonderful idea. That makes traveling rather problematic don't ya think?
There would not be a commercial aircraft left in one piece if we let every Tom, Dick and Hairy on board with guns locked and loaded. Not all folks on this globe are as rational as you and I. We tend to live and let live; they want us to die along with them.
Welcome to the real world, where anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing.
Will a single bullet bring down a plane?? Unless it hits a fuel line or some major component like that, Nope!! There have been turboprop blades that have gashed a 6 foot long foot wide opening in the hull of a larger plane as a blade hit something, and the plane landed safely.
What happens when a cabin depressurizes?? Air masks come down. Why? For the same reason you mentioned... lack of oxygen in the cabin.
So, I suppose it would be a real inconvenient truth to call to your attention that the ceiling for most of our air liners is 25,000 feet, right???
And I will also say the idea that hostage taking is something I would rather crash a plane over than let them do what they have to do. Fortunately, Richard Reid didn't get off so easily. I still say they should have executed him with a small charge of explosive tied to his neck while he was up to his waste in pig crap, and blow his head clean off. No virgins for you, stupid!!!
I agree 100 percent with you on Reid. PLUS the Gitmo guys should get a summary execution for being out of uniform on the field of battle that would stop the whiners about their supposed rights..
It is also painfully obvious that you do not fly much. Most passenger jets do indeed fly at 35-39,000 feet. Since I routinely flew 60,000 plus miles a year in Alaska I am quite familiar with the space under my butt and mother earth. [:D]
Also; the O2 masks are almost worthless at that altitude. There is not enough atmospheric pressure do allow the absorption of the O2 into your blood.
Welcome to the real world, where anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing.
In the real world we all get dead, doing whatever you happen to be doing at the time of check out is irrelevant.
It's a rather windy but nice day outside; I'm gonna take a break and shoot for a while. You all have fun and behave yourselves until I return. [8D][:)][:D][;)][:o)][:D]
I've yet to see planes exceed 33,000 feet above sea level. The Concorde was a 50,000 feet altitude flyer when it was in service, but it was flying over international waters. Air Space has limits.
But all this technical crap aside, if the masks serve no purpose, why have them on board??? Why would it not be exceptible for a bunch a people drawing guns on 5 terrorists on a plane be dangerous when the situation is about to get really dangerous, anyway??? If the raghead jerkoffs knew they may or even better, would meet hostile resistance, why even bother hijacking a plane when it is a doomed expedition before it even gets off the ground???
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Filling out forms, CCW's, ect. are all things that a sane person does, when faced with tyranny.
The difference between being a servant of the Elites and a freeman obeying edicts is the KNOWLEGE that you are bowing to tyranny...versus the pathetic "well, if it saves one life, its a good thing " B.S.....
When faced with overwhelming firepower, and very little support from other people, one MUST bow the knee.
The KEY, however, is keeping the knowledge alive about what freedom IS...and isn't....
Bpost..please don't reveal any more ignorance about air planes. I was a mechanic on them for 20 years. A single bullet..or several bullets..have as much chance of bringing down a jetliner as a flea does an elephant.
Ever heard of an 'outflow valve' ? Got any idea what diameter that thing is.??
As far as your participation in the gun rights fight...apparently your fight consists of aiding and abeting gun control laws...since you have such a hard time reading and understanding the Constitution, apparent by your continuing rabid attacks upon REAl Second Amendment supporters...
You win; Trying to reason with insanity is a waste of my effort. I sure as hell have better things to do with my time. I am not sure what color the sky is in your world but I am sure it is not the reasonable color of sanity. Reason and freedom go hand in hand. Our founders understood that. Delusions of absolutes ring of narcissism.
Single Bullets can and do bring down aircraft; ever hear of the golden BB? If you think other wise I am quite sure that widows and mothers of pilots from WWI through today's fighter pilot's may beg to differ with you.
I am not revealing any ignorance of aircraft, they are my other love besides guns and freedom. You should know better if you actually did work on them for 20 plus years. Are you a UNION puke?? You sure sound like one.
You are so blinded by self adoration and being correct that ANYTHING or any one upsetting your apple cart instantly becomes the enemy; that is NOT me, Highball. I most assuredly agree with about 95% OF EVERYTHING YOU UTTER. But as a free MAN I can also agree to disagree on some things with you. Just as I do with the closest friends I have in my life.
So unless you can prove me wrong; BITE ME on the aircraft issue. Depressurization of an aircraft at 35,000 plus feet is very bad for humans. Lungs go into a tizzy, BP drops and O2 saturation gets critical very fast especially in the old and children. That is why having every Tom, Dick and Hairy armed without purpose on the plane is a bad, unreasonable idea.
But to a super stud MAN the old and infirm are simply in the way, they do not stand tall in the face of tyranny. They do not count, they are not real MEN such as _________ {Fill in the blank.}
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:And; if you think a AUTO AK-47 should be allowed onto a flight and its OK for guns to be carried by folks in criminal proceedings you simply lack the common sense God gave you; or are unwilling to be intellectually honest. Prohibiting weapons on a flight or in courts is not unconstitutional; it is everyday common sense.
OK, what say you to this, then???
Now, what was that you were saying about common sense?? Apparently, common sense is a little more uncommon that you'd have us to believe. I'll choose conventional wisdom over "common" sense, any day!!!
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
I wholeheartedly concur that if the good guys are armed the bad guys are way outnumbered and gonna lose, big time. However, since we face somewhere around 150,000,000 radical Muslims in this world that becomes a problem for us. See, they think that think dying as they kill you and yours is a wonderful idea. That makes traveling rather problematic don't ya think?
There would not be a commercial aircraft left in one piece if we let every Tom, Dick and Hairy on board with guns locked and loaded. Not all folks on this globe are as rational as you and I. We tend to live and let live; they want us to die along with them.
Welcome to the real world, where anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing.
Will a single bullet bring down a plane?? Unless it hits a fuel line or some major component like that, Nope!! There have been turboprop blades that have gashed a 6 foot long foot wide opening in the hull of a larger plane as a blade hit something, and the plane landed safely.
What happens when a cabin depressurizes?? Air masks come down. Why? For the same reason you mentioned... lack of oxygen in the cabin.
So, I suppose it would be a real inconvenient truth to call to your attention that the ceiling for most of our air liners is 25,000 feet, right???
And I will also say the idea that hostage taking is something I would rather crash a plane over than let them do what they have to do. Fortunately, Richard Reid didn't get off so easily. I still say they should have executed him with a small charge of explosive tied to his neck while he was up to his waste in pig crap, and blow his head clean off. No virgins for you, stupid!!!
I agree 100 percent with you on Reid. PLUS the Gitmo guys should get a summary execution for being out of uniform on the field of battle that would stop the whiners about their supposed rights..
It is also painfully obvious that you do not fly much. Most passenger jets do indeed fly at 35-39,000 feet. Since I routinely flew 60,000 plus miles a year in Alaska I am quite familiar with the space under my butt and mother earth. [:D]
Also; the O2 masks are almost worthless at that altitude. There is not enough atmospheric pressure do allow the absorption of the O2 into your blood.
Welcome to the real world, where anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing.
In the real world we all get dead, doing whatever you happen to be doing at the time of check out is irrelevant.
It's a rather windy but nice day outside; I'm gonna take a break and shoot for a while. You all have fun and behave yourselves until I return. [8D][:)][:D][;)][:o)][:D]
I've yet to see planes exceed 33,000 feet above sea level. The Concorde was a 50,000 feet altitude flyer when it was in service, but it was flying over international waters. Air Space has limits.
But all this technical crap aside, if the masks serve no purpose, why have them on board??? Why would it not be exceptible for a bunch a people drawing guns on 5 terrorists on a plane be dangerous when the situation is about to get really dangerous, anyway??? If the raghead jerkoffs knew they may or even better, would meet hostile resistance, why even bother hijacking a plane when it is a doomed expedition before it even gets off the ground???
Unanswered questions, or rhetorical questions????
You are too damn ignorant to deal with on aircraft; go spend some time learning or better yet FLYING.
Follow HIGHBALL, He really is not too far off track....
As long as you can carry a rifle and salute him you will be fine..
I'm having a little difficulty believing that single bullets do bring down planes. When was the last time this happened?? You talk about it like it was a plague that led us to the inexorable conclusion that carrying a gun on board a plane was an automatic death sentence....
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
I'm having a little difficulty believing that single bullets do bring down planes. When was the last time this happened?? You talk about it like it was a plague that led us to the inexorable conclusion that carrying a gun on board a plane was an automatic death sentence....
That is all speculation.
If the plane is still able to fly and all the passengers are injured dead and dying; was the flight a success? My focus has been the folly of having every Tom, Dick and Hairy on the aircraft with a loaded gun.
Having shot competitivly for many years I can tell you one simple truth. Even the most controlled ranges and firing lines have "accidental discharges". If you have spent any time on a range you will know that unsafe gun handling is common. There is some azzhat being a macho man with his new hand cannon to impress his girl. Getting into her panties is on his mind, not safe gun handling.
As a past range officer, well trained to know better, I had an accidental discharge of my trusty 1911 during a match; no one was hurt because I never point at what I don't want to shoot. I also had a mechanical failure on a rifle during a timed match. When the safety was released the rifle went BANG. Lord knows where that bullet went.
I would not be worried by some folks carrying guns on planes in the least. But just as cars crash everyday the chance of a gun accident on an airplane is simply too great and the reward too little to risk it.
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Filling out forms, CCW's, ect. are all things that a sane person does, when faced with tyranny.
The difference between being a servant of the Elites and a freeman obeying edicts is the KNOWLEGE that you are bowing to tyranny...versus the pathetic "well, if it saves one life, its a good thing " B.S.....
When faced with overwhelming firepower, and very little support from other people, one MUST bow the knee.
The KEY, however, is keeping the knowledge alive about what freedom IS...and isn't....
Bpost..please don't reveal any more ignorance about air planes. I was a mechanic on them for 20 years. A single bullet..or several bullets..have as much chance of bringing down a jetliner as a flea does an elephant.
Ever heard of an 'outflow valve' ? Got any idea what diameter that thing is.??
As far as your participation in the gun rights fight...apparently your fight consists of aiding and abeting gun control laws...since you have such a hard time reading and understanding the Constitution, apparent by your continuing rabid attacks upon REAl Second Amendment supporters...
You win; Trying to reason with insanity is a waste of my effort. I sure as hell have better things to do with my time. I am not sure what color the sky is in your world but I am sure it is not the reasonable color of sanity. Reason and freedom go hand in hand. Our founders understood that. Delusions of absolutes ring of narcissism.
Single Bullets can and do bring down aircraft; ever hear of the golden BB? If you think other wise I am quite sure that widows and mothers of pilots from WWI through today's fighter pilot's may beg to differ with you.
I am not revealing any ignorance of aircraft, they are my other love besides guns and freedom. You should know better if you actually did work on them for 20 plus years. Are you a UNION puke?? You sure sound like one.
You are so blinded by self adoration and being correct that ANYTHING or any one upsetting your apple cart instantly becomes the enemy; that is NOT me, Highball. I most assuredly agree with about 95% OF EVERYTHING YOU UTTER. But as a free MAN I can also agree to disagree on some things with you. Just as I do with the closest friends I have in my life.
So unless you can prove me wrong; BITE ME on the aircraft issue. Depressurization of an aircraft at 35,000 plus feet is very bad for humans. Lungs go into a tizzy, BP drops and O2 saturation gets critical very fast especially in the old and children. That is why having every Tom, Dick and Hairy armed without purpose on the plane is a bad, unreasonable idea.
But to a super stud MAN the old and infirm are simply in the way, they do not stand tall in the face of tyranny. They do not count, they are not real MEN such as _________ {Fill in the blank.}
In red above. It would take several bullets piercing the skin of an airplane to cause "depressurization." The aircraft valve that controls pressure by opening and closing as needed is much larger than any opening several rifle or handgun bullets could ever make.
Besides, if a group of ragheads were getting control of a plane my family and I are on, I would rather place my bet on the outcome controlled by a few lawful American citizens pulling their guns. I have much more faith in my lawful fellow Americans than I would by relying on the outcome if the ragheads were allowed to continue their evil plan.
With that said, there are pros and cons for allowing licensed CCW citizen handgun owners to carry on a plane. Neither idea is perfect, but then how many ideas are?
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Filling out forms, CCW's, ect. are all things that a sane person does, when faced with tyranny.
The difference between being a servant of the Elites and a freeman obeying edicts is the KNOWLEGE that you are bowing to tyranny...versus the pathetic "well, if it saves one life, its a good thing " B.S.....
When faced with overwhelming firepower, and very little support from other people, one MUST bow the knee.
The KEY, however, is keeping the knowledge alive about what freedom IS...and isn't....
Bpost..please don't reveal any more ignorance about air planes. I was a mechanic on them for 20 years. A single bullet..or several bullets..have as much chance of bringing down a jetliner as a flea does an elephant.
Ever heard of an 'outflow valve' ? Got any idea what diameter that thing is.??
As far as your participation in the gun rights fight...apparently your fight consists of aiding and abeting gun control laws...since you have such a hard time reading and understanding the Constitution, apparent by your continuing rabid attacks upon REAl Second Amendment supporters...
You win; Trying to reason with insanity is a waste of my effort. I sure as hell have better things to do with my time. I am not sure what color the sky is in your world but I am sure it is not the reasonable color of sanity. Reason and freedom go hand in hand. Our founders understood that. Delusions of absolutes ring of narcissism.
Single Bullets can and do bring down aircraft; ever hear of the golden BB? If you think other wise I am quite sure that widows and mothers of pilots from WWI through today's fighter pilot's may beg to differ with you.
I am not revealing any ignorance of aircraft, they are my other love besides guns and freedom. You should know better if you actually did work on them for 20 plus years. Are you a UNION puke?? You sure sound like one.
You are so blinded by self adoration and being correct that ANYTHING or any one upsetting your apple cart instantly becomes the enemy; that is NOT me, Highball. I most assuredly agree with about 95% OF EVERYTHING YOU UTTER. But as a free MAN I can also agree to disagree on some things with you. Just as I do with the closest friends I have in my life.
So unless you can prove me wrong; BITE ME on the aircraft issue. Depressurization of an aircraft at 35,000 plus feet is very bad for humans. Lungs go into a tizzy, BP drops and O2 saturation gets critical very fast especially in the old and children. That is why having every Tom, Dick and Hairy armed without purpose on the plane is a bad, unreasonable idea.
But to a super stud MAN the old and infirm are simply in the way, they do not stand tall in the face of tyranny. They do not count, they are not real MEN such as _________ {Fill in the blank.}
In red above. It would take several bullets piercing the skin of an airplane to cause "depressurization." The aircraft valve that controls pressure by opening and closing as needed is much larger than any opening several rifle or handgun bullets could ever make.
Besides, if a group of ragheads were getting control of a plane my family and I are on, I would rather place my bet on the outcome controlled by a few lawful American citizens pulling their guns. I have much more faith in my lawful fellow Americans than I would by relying on the outcome if the ragheads were allowed to continue their evil plan.
With that said, there are pros and cons for allowing licensed CCW citizen handgun owners to carry on a plane. Neither idea is perfect, but then how many ideas are?
But, but, but.....When we have our RIGHTS as DECLARED by REAL MEN you don't need a CCW. ITS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.....[}:)][;)][:0][:)] that seems to be the only response to any carry laws.
so you will be on board with drunks, divorce victims and nut cases all armed to the hilt. Why bother exposing your self to such a disaster waiting to happen if you don't have to. Put the guns in the baggage until the flight lands then arm your self to the teeth if it makes you feel safer. I'm happy with a S&W 686.
Even if cabin pressure is not an issue to some how about a fire caused by bullets shorting out wires? Have you ever seen the rats nest of wires inside a 737 wall? Fires on planes are common and very deadly.
How about errant bullets flying around hitting your granny in the forehead. She was on the way to see her new grandson and got shot because some dumbazzed Imam wanted to do the payer rug routine and somebody got gun happy.
There is no right answer to this quandary. Airlines unfortunately for us are governed by the FAA. If the free market was working we would have armed; trained "passengers" on every flight. We could rest easy and watch the movie knowing that if someone got froggy they would be dealt with in a professional manner with the least chance of granny getting popped too.
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Filling out forms, CCW's, ect. are all things that a sane person does, when faced with tyranny.
The difference between being a servant of the Elites and a freeman obeying edicts is the KNOWLEGE that you are bowing to tyranny...versus the pathetic "well, if it saves one life, its a good thing " B.S.....
When faced with overwhelming firepower, and very little support from other people, one MUST bow the knee.
The KEY, however, is keeping the knowledge alive about what freedom IS...and isn't....
Bpost..please don't reveal any more ignorance about air planes. I was a mechanic on them for 20 years. A single bullet..or several bullets..have as much chance of bringing down a jetliner as a flea does an elephant.
Ever heard of an 'outflow valve' ? Got any idea what diameter that thing is.??
As far as your participation in the gun rights fight...apparently your fight consists of aiding and abeting gun control laws...since you have such a hard time reading and understanding the Constitution, apparent by your continuing rabid attacks upon REAl Second Amendment supporters...
You win; Trying to reason with insanity is a waste of my effort. I sure as hell have better things to do with my time. I am not sure what color the sky is in your world but I am sure it is not the reasonable color of sanity. Reason and freedom go hand in hand. Our founders understood that. Delusions of absolutes ring of narcissism.
Single Bullets can and do bring down aircraft; ever hear of the golden BB? If you think other wise I am quite sure that widows and mothers of pilots from WWI through today's fighter pilot's may beg to differ with you.
I am not revealing any ignorance of aircraft, they are my other love besides guns and freedom. You should know better if you actually did work on them for 20 plus years. Are you a UNION puke?? You sure sound like one.
You are so blinded by self adoration and being correct that ANYTHING or any one upsetting your apple cart instantly becomes the enemy; that is NOT me, Highball. I most assuredly agree with about 95% OF EVERYTHING YOU UTTER. But as a free MAN I can also agree to disagree on some things with you. Just as I do with the closest friends I have in my life.
So unless you can prove me wrong; BITE ME on the aircraft issue. Depressurization of an aircraft at 35,000 plus feet is very bad for humans. Lungs go into a tizzy, BP drops and O2 saturation gets critical very fast especially in the old and children. That is why having every Tom, Dick and Hairy armed without purpose on the plane is a bad, unreasonable idea.
But to a super stud MAN the old and infirm are simply in the way, they do not stand tall in the face of tyranny. They do not count, they are not real MEN such as _________ {Fill in the blank.}
In red above. It would take several bullets piercing the skin of an airplane to cause "depressurization." The aircraft valve that controls pressure by opening and closing as needed is much larger than any opening several rifle or handgun bullets could ever make.
Besides, if a group of ragheads were getting control of a plane my family and I are on, I would rather place my bet on the outcome controlled by a few lawful American citizens pulling their guns. I have much more faith in my lawful fellow Americans than I would by relying on the outcome if the ragheads were allowed to continue their evil plan.
With that said, there are pros and cons for allowing licensed CCW citizen handgun owners to carry on a plane. Neither idea is perfect, but then how many ideas are?
But, but, but.....When we have our RIGHTS as DECLARED by REAL MEN you don't need a CCW. ITS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.....[}:)][;)][:0][:)] that seems to be the only response to any carry laws.
so you will be on board with drunks, divorce victims and nut cases all armed to the hilt.Just as on the ground, it would be illegal for a drunk to be in possession of a gun. Few divorce victims turn homicidal. If lawful, honest people were to so quickly and easily turn homicidal, I would share your fears. True "nuts cases" are already not allowed to buy or even possess guns Why bother exposing your self to such a disaster waiting to happen if you don't have to. Put the guns in the baggage until the flight lands then arm your self to the teeth if it makes you feel safer. I'm happy with a S&W 686.
Even if cabin pressure is not an issue to some how about a fire caused by bullets shorting out wires? Have you ever seen the rats nest of wires inside a 737 wall? Fires on planes are common and very deadly. how about a meteor falling out of the sky, hitting the plane and making it crash? Life is full of "what if's"
How about errant bullets flying around hitting your granny in the forehead. She was on the way to see her new grandson and got shot because some dumbazzed Imam wanted to do the payer rug routine and somebody got gun happy.
There is no right answer to this quandary. Airlines unfortunately for us are governed by the FAA. If the free market was working we would have armed; trained "passengers" on every flight. We could rest easy and watch the movie knowing that if someone got froggy they would be dealt with in a professional manner with the least chance of granny getting popped too.
If anyone wants to be trusted with their guns, they need to be trusting of other citizens who have done nothing to have lost that trust. In addition, whenever you finally allow peaceful, lawful citizens to carry firearms for protection, there unfortuntely will be a few accidents, unjustified shootings, and good people suddenly going bad. That is just a sad fact of life in that no situation is perfect, without risk, etc. If you are going to give a particular freedom to citizens, especially a freedom they deserve, all you can do is hope for the best. But overall there will be a net gain because now armed citizens can actually have a chance of resisting the armed murderers, robbers and rapists without haveing to rely on nothing but their teeth and fingernails for weapons and therefore there will be overall fewer citizens harmed by guns.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Filling out forms, CCW's, ect. are all things that a sane person does, when faced with tyranny.
The difference between being a servant of the Elites and a freeman obeying edicts is the KNOWLEGE that you are bowing to tyranny...versus the pathetic "well, if it saves one life, its a good thing " B.S.....
When faced with overwhelming firepower, and very little support from other people, one MUST bow the knee.
The KEY, however, is keeping the knowledge alive about what freedom IS...and isn't....
Bpost..please don't reveal any more ignorance about air planes. I was a mechanic on them for 20 years. A single bullet..or several bullets..have as much chance of bringing down a jetliner as a flea does an elephant.
Ever heard of an 'outflow valve' ? Got any idea what diameter that thing is.??
As far as your participation in the gun rights fight...apparently your fight consists of aiding and abeting gun control laws...since you have such a hard time reading and understanding the Constitution, apparent by your continuing rabid attacks upon REAl Second Amendment supporters...
You win; Trying to reason with insanity is a waste of my effort. I sure as hell have better things to do with my time. I am not sure what color the sky is in your world but I am sure it is not the reasonable color of sanity. Reason and freedom go hand in hand. Our founders understood that. Delusions of absolutes ring of narcissism.
Single Bullets can and do bring down aircraft; ever hear of the golden BB? If you think other wise I am quite sure that widows and mothers of pilots from WWI through today's fighter pilot's may beg to differ with you.
I am not revealing any ignorance of aircraft, they are my other love besides guns and freedom. You should know better if you actually did work on them for 20 plus years. Are you a UNION puke?? You sure sound like one.
You are so blinded by self adoration and being correct that ANYTHING or any one upsetting your apple cart instantly becomes the enemy; that is NOT me, Highball. I most assuredly agree with about 95% OF EVERYTHING YOU UTTER. But as a free MAN I can also agree to disagree on some things with you. Just as I do with the closest friends I have in my life.
So unless you can prove me wrong; BITE ME on the aircraft issue. Depressurization of an aircraft at 35,000 plus feet is very bad for humans. Lungs go into a tizzy, BP drops and O2 saturation gets critical very fast especially in the old and children. That is why having every Tom, Dick and Hairy armed without purpose on the plane is a bad, unreasonable idea.
But to a super stud MAN the old and infirm are simply in the way, they do not stand tall in the face of tyranny. They do not count, they are not real MEN such as _________ {Fill in the blank.}
In red above. It would take several bullets piercing the skin of an airplane to cause "depressurization." The aircraft valve that controls pressure by opening and closing as needed is much larger than any opening several rifle or handgun bullets could ever make.
Besides, if a group of ragheads were getting control of a plane my family and I are on, I would rather place my bet on the outcome controlled by a few lawful American citizens pulling their guns. I have much more faith in my lawful fellow Americans than I would by relying on the outcome if the ragheads were allowed to continue their evil plan.
With that said, there are pros and cons for allowing licensed CCW citizen handgun owners to carry on a plane. Neither idea is perfect, but then how many ideas are?
But, but, but.....When we have our RIGHTS as DECLARED by REAL MEN you don't need a CCW. ITS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.....[}:)][;)][:0][:)] that seems to be the only response to any carry laws.
so you will be on board with drunks, divorce victims and nut cases all armed to the hilt.Just as on the ground, it would be illegal for a drunk to be in possession of a gun. Few divorce victims turn homicidal. If lawful, honest people were to so quickly and easily turn homicidal, I would share your fears. True "nuts cases" are already not allowed to buy or even possess guns Why bother exposing your self to such a disaster waiting to happen if you don't have to. Put the guns in the baggage until the flight lands then arm your self to the teeth if it makes you feel safer. I'm happy with a S&W 686.
Even if cabin pressure is not an issue to some how about a fire caused by bullets shorting out wires? Have you ever seen the rats nest of wires inside a 737 wall? Fires on planes are common and very deadly. how about a meteor falling out of the sky, hitting the plane and making it crash? Life is full of "what if's"
How about errant bullets flying around hitting your granny in the forehead. She was on the way to see her new grandson and got shot because some dumbazzed Imam wanted to do the payer rug routine and somebody got gun happy.
There is no right answer to this quandary. Airlines unfortunately for us are governed by the FAA. If the free market was working we would have armed; trained "passengers" on every flight. We could rest easy and watch the movie knowing that if someone got froggy they would be dealt with in a professional manner with the least chance of granny getting popped too.
If anyone wants to be trusted with their guns, they need to be trusting of other citizens who have done nothing to have lost that trust. In addition, whenever you finally allow peaceful, lawful citizens to carry firearms for protection, there unfortuntely will be a few accidents, unjustified shootings, and good people suddenly going bad. That is just a sad fact of life in that no situation is perfect, without risk, etc. If you are going to give a particular freedom to citizens, especially a freedom they deserve, all you can do is hope for the best. But overall there will be a net gain because now armed citizens can actually have a chance of resisting the armed murderers, robbers and rapists without haveing to rely on nothing but their teeth and fingernails for weapons and therefore there will be overall fewer citizens harmed by guns.
Hey Highball,..........does that last statement make a point with me! I do the "legal" thing, not because I agree with it, but I do not wish to find out what jail is like. I have made it 45 years without ever being there, and don't wish to start now. I "participate" in the system that we have, to be able to have my firearms, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the thought of saving a life. I would like to see proof that any of this BS, has ever saved a life, much less the numbers that it should take to infringe on our rights. I stand by what I said before,.......criminals get their guns from trunks, and steal them! Law abiding people follow the stupid rules. Yes, does an occasional law abiding citizen "crack",......yes they do, but it is infrequent, and the BS laws would not have saved the person harmed. I said before, IF you ever become enraged enough to kill someone,i.e., not self defense, having a gun, or not, is not going to change things! Most people that go off the deep end, that have led a "pure" life, is over a domestic issue,.............why do you think that any LEO will tell you they would rather respond to anything, than a domestic dispute? These types of things have gone on since time began, and would continue to happen if they took all of the firearms, and melted them down,..........can't stop a person that has lost control of their thought process!
I pay my fees, and buy my guns, and will continue to do so, and no one will stop me if I want another pistol or such. I have been asked many times by my own mother, and my fiance, why I have so many guns? You guys will laugh, but I have a bit over a dozen! I don't need to explain why I want another pistol or shotgun,............I pay for it, and am a law abiding citizen, and don't feel the need to limit what I buy because it is TOO many! This is a country based upon capitalism, at least it used to be,...........stay the hell out of my business, unless I cross over the line. Only one item may cause me to cross that line, and I think some of you know what that is![;)]
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Dang! Then we have.......agreement. Unheard of on the Gun Rights Forum[:o)]
I sure learned that fast!!!![:D][:D]
I am busy building an additional 16 feet of workbench in the gun room today. I need more room to clean and work on my toys.... It is raining cats and dogs outside and I don't have my outdoor shooting bench covered; (YET) [:D]
Bpost is INDEED right about one aspect of his disertation.
One bullet MAY bring down a jetliner..just as a single bullet fired over water or into the air MAY kill somebody a mile away.
S*** happens. Explosive decompression is NOT what is going to happen, however..with a single bullet...or even a short burst from a full auto.
There are multiply back-up systems on jets...even if a hydraulic system is breached, there are
safties built into the system to prevent total failures.
That is not enough of a risk that I will allow a 5 buck-an-hour dofuss to disarm me...nor allow the government to dictate the limits of my personal safety.
Once again...if you support gun control..it is plenty obvious that you distrust your fellow citizens, distrust your OWN abilities to handle a situation...and trust mercenaries with firearms and your life.
I don't.The citizen is INTANTLY reachable..and a court of law, if it comes to that, has a chance, however small, of reaching justice.
No such avenue exists for redress from out of control government thugs.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Bpost is INDEED right about one aspect of his disertation.
One bullet MAY bring down a jetliner..just as a single bullet fired over water or into the air MAY kill somebody a mile away.
S*** happens. Explosive decompression is NOT what is going to happen, however..with a single bullet...or even a short burst from a full auto.
There are multiply back-up systems on jets...even if a hydraulic system is breached, there are
safties built into the system to prevent total failures.
That is not enough of a risk that I will allow a 5 buck-an-hour dofuss to disarm me...nor allow the government to dictate the limits of my personal safety.
Once again...if you support gun control..it is plenty obvious that you distrust your fellow citizens, distrust your OWN abilities to handle a situation...and trust mercenaries with firearms and your life.
I don't.The citizen is INTANTLY reachable..and a court of law, if it comes to that, has a chance, however small, of reaching justice.
No such avenue exists for redress from out of control government thugs.
There is only one thing in this life you have control over Highball; it is yourself. I don't know about you but there has been a time or two when I wondered if I even had that. Every day you put your very life in the hands of morons making minimum wage. Every day you are exposed to countless dangers, not one damn bit of it is your choice.
There is not enough time in twenty lifetimes to do diddly-squat about it.
There was NEVER a time in this nation when the Gub'ment was UNDER CONTROL. Having something other than yourself under control is an illusion, plain and simple. Living in a world where EVERYBODY is armed would not be a place I would choose to live. Since control is an illusion so is your personal safety. We are never safe anywhere at anytime. S&!T truly does happen.
We agree on one thing only.
Safety is an illusion.
You prefer armed thugs protecting you and your loved ones.
I prefer myself and other decent citizens being armed and in control of our immediate surrounding..as is written in one of those old documents that most people choose to ignore....
quote:Originally posted by Highball
We agree on one thing only.
Safety is an illusion.
You prefer armed thugs protecting you and your loved ones.
I prefer myself and other decent citizens being armed and in control of our immediate surrounding..as is written in one of those old documents that most people choose to ignore....
Actually I sleep better knowing God is in charge. If he allows me another day here on earth, I'll be glad. Just to be helpful to him I do have a .45 close by while I slumber.
You control only yourself; your surroundings are not controllable in the least. But if you got problems you can count on me. I'll help the best I can!
Of course you are absolutely right about God.
Remember, tho...he made it possible for you, I...or your 110 pound wife to be the equal of a 240 pound hopped up on crack thug....
and p*** on governments or people trying to take away that advantage.
By the way...you mentioned that you agreed ' 95 %' with me.
Please...you are not agreeing with me, precisely...but with the Founders..those REAL hero's that had the courage to wade in blood to gain freedom....and determined that NEVER AGAIN would a government have the power to subjucate the citizens..
Would that we today had learned the lessons they taught....
No offense,.........but could some of you folks knock off the cut and paste of entire articles going back God knows how many posts, and including several responses? I predict I am about to find out why there is lower activity on this board![;)]
We don't need to see the same foot long posts, repeated, and added to multiple times, unless you are attempting to respond to all of that! Maybe you "fellas" like it that way?
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
Marc1301, you are a testament to common sense, in both of your previous posts. I think you have a very sound view on gun rights.
As for the C&P stuff, yes guys, this has been getting bad in recent months. There is no need to C&P a string of eight responses just because you have 3 or 4 comments that pertain to them. I would appreciate if only the few specific sentences are copied that are relevent to your response. Or better yet, just post the name of the person you are responding too. Most of us ACTUALLY DO READ ALL OF THE POSTS in this forum. Pasting them over again 14 times doesn't make us read them again. It just increases the time to load the page and makes us all use that scroll button even more!
Bpost, I think it has become clear that you do not trust most of your fellow citizens, at least when it comes to firearms, and perhaps in many other areas.
That is okay. I had a problem with this for the longest time as well. I used to shoot 2 to 3 times a week at a local indoor range. I would see things there that made me cringe. Several times I walked to my stall, looked down the line at my fellow shooters, and walked right out without firing a shot because I didn't like what I saw.
I now live near a public outdoor range that has no rangemaster. It is like swimming at a public pool without a lifeguard. Again, there are times when I drive up, look at the shooters, and drive away without even getting out of the car. So what is the answer? More gun laws because people are stupid? If anything, over the past 18 months especially, I have learned that every single idiot out there with a gun (either legally or illegally) is even more reason why I should be able to legally carry MY GUN in any situation that I CHOOSE. The real idiots are not suddenly going to become safer because another law gets passed, and many of them are not following the current laws. The only way to handle these people is to enforce the penalties that already exist. I say, if you intentionally or through your negligence destroy, injure, or kill people or property, then you should be facing some serious felony charges. The idiots should only get one chance to screw up, then they should be paying for it. Instead we have a society that is always trying to excuse or rehabilitate the criminals and idiots, while us normal law-abiding folks just get more of our rights taken away. I'm tired of being lumped in with all the idiots. The government has no right to assume anything about me, that is why we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. I have never stood before a judge nor ever been convicted by a jury, so where the hell are my rights?
Unfortunately, TRTKBA gets the same - if not less - disrespect that the 1st and other Amendments do.
Examples:
Imus gets fired for making a stupid, sophomoric remark.
Cashiers at the checkout don't have to touch or handle pork or alcohol if their religion forbids it AND they can't be disciplined for what we used to call insubordination. And so, someone else, anyone else, has to touch it for them.
Muslim Imans get to act wierdly and overtly in public before boarding a plane and then systematically sue those who acted logically and responsibly towards them by removing them from the flight.
Illegal immigrants can break a myriad of laws - Federal and State and local - and enjoy basking in the protective shelter that our society's largesse strains to lavish upon them.
Sadly, we live in a paranoid society that seeks to "excuse" and "overlook" rather than run the risk required to hold individuals accountable or responsible, except in the case of a Don Imus. His debacle is IMO vintage and selective discrimination at its best; done so solely to elicit a specific knee-jerk response from a terrified society that flagellates itself daily for whatever it can bring itself to feel guilty about. Fear of litigation, fear of losing money, fear of standing up and being counted.
The question of the day now for many Americans is: "Who are we apologizing to today?" Why doesn't matter.
The dimwit at the range, who in a moment of sheer stupidity hurts or kills someone, will invariably have the opportunity to blame everyone else for his own actions - and, in a court of law, probably win an acquittal!!! Mom. Dad. Uncle Phineas. His teacher. His priest. Someone else - innocent and unsuspecting - will get dragged down into the dimwit's abyss and possibly end up bearing the brunt of the misdeed. Everyone on death row magically finds Jesus as the date with the executioner draws nearer. Wife-beaters blame mom or dad for the "mythical" abuse they suffered as children. Etc., etc., etc. ad nauseum. No one wants to be held truly accountable for his or her own actions. And our society eagerly assists them in denying culpability.
Logically, it follows that punishment should be meted out appropriate to the offense. But no so here in America, folks. Not so here. Our collective "balls" are being kept in a large mayonnaise jar somewhere on an ultra-liberal's nightstand.
Hey Slowhand,........you already know the answer to why folks today don't accept resonsibility for their own actions,........they no longer need to! There is an excuse for any and every offense that a person commits. I never have cared for Don Imus, but he should not have been fired. Why does Al Sharpton still present himself as a "black leader", and go unquestioned by the media, after his history that we all here know about? Every person, and business, is TERRIFIED, of being called the dreaded "racist"!
Wounded Wolf,......thanks for the accolades, and I wish there were more gun owners like us , and Highball, who seems to be a magnet for "dislike",........why I don't understand. I happen to agree with most all that he is saying. I have never been a "feelgood" person,........don't need to be! I have always busted my rear, and done more than my fair share of things for others, and get very little in return. Mind you, I am not looking for anything, as I prefer to take care of things myself, but it IS amusing when you see a person that you have done multiple things for, and if you even mention them helping you with something,...........they really would like to, but they happen to have plans that can't be changed everytime! LOL
I, like you live near an unsupervised range that has become very dangerous, due to all of the unwatched teenagers, with their latest Tech 9's or such. That is why I joined a "private", members only range that costs money. To me that is taking action to get what you want,.............life is not free, nor guaranteed, like so many think today. I have always been told that I think like an older person, even when I was much younger and less experienced. I often feel like I was born into the wrong time,.........don't get me wrong, I love my life, but just don't understand so many things that must float through the vacant minds of people today.
My life does not revolve around guns, but why should we have to face this constant onslaught from politicos, and the gun owners themselves, that want to feel good! They are willing to give away rights that our founding fathers gave us for a REASON, so that they may feel all "cushy",......they may have saved someones life by not fighting a bill, or by waiting 3 to 5 days or more for their handgun that they simply want for protection, or to shoot at the range! Does any rational person remotely believe that a criminal is going to be affected by this? I feel lost sometimes in this age of political correctness. The libs have always sucked in my opinion,.........no offense to anyone that is a Democrat, as I came from a family that always voted a straight Dem ticket,..........I was the first Republican, when I started to vote, which was around 28 years of age. I know, I missed out on 10 years of my responsibility,.....just being honest here! Now I even feel deserted by my own party, and the president that I voted for twice,.........I really don't wish to become an offshoot of Mexico, nor continue to see what we are calling "immigrants" today, continue to take over this country, and make us ever more "non-productive", and farm out jobs overseas. This is sad to say, as it is very selfish, but at this point, I am simply hoping to be able to live my life before it all falls apart, and we start to see cattle, and people on bikes, taking up the streets, when we become a third world country.
My rant is over for now,.........you guys take care![;)]
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
Over 35 years ago, I freely told folks that I believed welfare was the rich, powerful white man's way to keep minorities exactly where the white man wanted them. Take away ambition, drive, zeal, the dream of something bigger and better. And, it has proven me to be 100% correct all along. Unfortunately, minorities here in America do not recognize a scheme even when they are an active part of it.
The Sharpton's and Jackson's et al feast upon that naivete or ambivalence of minorities to maintain their own prominence and power base.
Expensive bling-bling today is more important than an Associates or Bachelors Degree down the road. The separatist and exclusionary practice of embracing the African heritage two centuries removed only divides society further.
Yet, when Bill Cosby - talk about a pretty successful black man - lashes out at his fellow blacks for their continued "dropping of the ball", he is the one who is criticized and chastized. And so, the situation remains strategically unchanged. And a good time was had by all.
So yes, no one wants to accept any responsibility for why their life is the way it is. It's got to be someone else's - anybody else's - fault.
The senseless shooting tragedy in Virginia MUST be someone's fault before we're done. Blame must be assigned even if it's unwarranted. The goody-two-shoes of society need closure more than they need the truth.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
ANY belief other then;
<snip><snip>
right on the point. if anyone's curious to see what this "we're just happy with what we're allowed and we'll comply" attitude did and does with people -- pick into calguns.net forum. it's less than pathetic and lower than low. but i guess we haven't yet arrived to the point where there're no more shades, and most likely won't in our life time, though who knows.
another comment i just have to make, if it hasn't been made here before -- doesn't anyone see and understand that gun grabbers are subverting this great country? how's it not high treason to disarm or prevent citizen from arming themselves against what the 2A says?
Comments
The words "people" were used in the 2nd. Amendment,......we are people. Militia is also used,.......militia for what? Our founding fathers were trying to set up a government that allowed protections against what they had fought to eliminate. How does anyone know that they meant only a militia for the protection of the existing government,.........a militia could also be used to protect the "nation" against an out of control leadership itself. In the days when the constitution was written, obviously we did not have full auto AK-47's or RPG's, etc.,............why does anyone assume that the founding fathers would have excluded those possibly necessary items from ownership, and use for the militias purposes.
I abide by the laws, and have a CCW in a friendly state (Florida), but believe that it is unconstitutional. NICS checks,........have had too many to remember, but what false sense of security does one derive from them? Criminals do not obey the laws to begin with, so no protection on that front! They buy their guns out of trunks, and steal them from the homes they break into. All a NICS does is give a revenue stream to the government. As far as the few non-criminals that "crack" over a domestic issue usually,.......the waiting period, and background check is useless! If a crazy guy is willing to kill his girlfriend or wife, he is going to cut her head off before he will wait to pick up a handgun. Strangulation, beating to death, chainsaws, name anything of thousands of ways to kill someone if you are so inclined.
I belong to the NRA also,............wish they stood up for what they were founded for. I belong for two reasons,.......first I am a member of a range that requires membership, second they do some good. I also write, and call the politicos for what it is worth. I am glad to live where I do, as Florida is fairly gun friendly, and we are close to making it so that businesses, and employers, can no longer make people that have CCW, leave their weapons at home, because they are not allowed to be left in the employees vehicle during the day, rendering their CCW useless!
I am afraid of no honest person with whatever firearm they choose to have, but I AM afraid of what may happen if we continue down the path to full blown Socialism, and the danger we will all face if our rights are lost. I know this has been used to death, but who do you think will still have firearms if the government ever succeeds in their real wishes? The military, to keep us under proper control, and make sure we hand over our money, and the criminals, and murderers, to victimize, and rape us, and our families!
The second amendment is CLEAR to me, and why some folks make it confusing is beyond me.
Take Care
I have a point or two for your consideration...
The NRA was actually founded to teach civilian marksmanship...not lobby congress.
They did a splendid job of teaching young people to shoot...as lobbyists they absolutely suck.
People make the Second Amendment confusing because the plain truth is entirely too stark.
The Second Amendment is designed to protect the PEOPLE from the GOVERNMENT...forever and ever.
How do we know a government is going bad ? SIMPLE.
They institute laws restricting firearms.
quote:The NRA was actually founded to teach civilian marksmanship...not lobby congress.
They did a splendid job of teaching young people to shoot...as lobbyists they absolutely suck.
Excellent summary, Highball. The only addition I would make regarding today's NRA is the role of the gun manufacturers in the NRA's lobbying efforts. We all pay our $35 bucks a year so that the NRA can lobby for Ruger, Colt, S&W, etc. We get raped in NRA dues so that we can also get raped in the gun shop. The manufacturers don't give flying monkey crap about the 2nd Amendment, they just want to keep us buying more guns and accessories. And remember, the BATFE is part of the TREASURY DEPARTMENT. They are a TAX COLLECTING ENTITY. The manufacturers have no problem with the government taking its share.
NRA, gun manufacturers, and BATFE are NOT looking out for us individuals' gun rights.
However, in the 1950s and 1960s, the BATF was under the direct control of the IRS!
Some interesting reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Alcohol,_Tobacco,_Firearms_and_Explosives
Consider other members here at GB. (example) What is the view of member "xxxx" on "this or that" topic? What are the views of member "yyyy"? With Highball, he leaves no doubt as to his views. Taking a HARD stance here, where members are quick to criticize, condemn, and disparage members with a different point of view than theirs, can`t be easy. While I don't always agree 100% with what he says, I have to admire his tenacity in the face of some of the vicious attacks on his individuality.
Would there be more traffic in this forum if he didn't post here? Possibly. But then, if a man doesn't have thick enough skin, to look beyond ONE man's posts, would he really be a contributing member? Many men post here, some agree with Highball, some don't, but they are MEN. Ready to speak their minds, provide facts for their side of the issue, discuss topics in a civilized manor, listen to opposing views and willing to change their minds if the facts substantiate it.
Sheeple will always cringe away from subjects they dislike. Cold hard facts can scare the living daylights out of them. Especially when they don't see a path that will set things right. They will run away, to cower in their safe little environment, blissfully unaware of the harsh realities of the world. Are those types really needed here?
I'm curious as to what some of you guys do when purchasing a new firearm. If I'm buying something from a dealer, I'm pretty much stuck with filling out a 4473 and going through the currently required hoops. Do I think this is right ? No. But that leaves the choice of don't get it, or do what I need to do. Fortunately most of what sparks my interests are the antiques, and there is no paperwork required for them.
I also will engage in private face to face sales whenever possible.
But seriously, is there any limit to which some of you would restrict private ownership ? Also, do you only deal in face to face sales, or do you go through the currently required steps from dealers ? Or the third option would be to become skilled and equipped enough to make your own.
I've posted before that I see no reason why people shouldn't be able to own artillery. If they have a sizeable chunk of land accessible, and want to wing shells downrange, then by all means enjoy. If they live in an urban setting, then there is no problem until they start lobbing rounds into the neighbors apartments.
I fully support unrestricted ownership of fully automatic firearms. The only thing that the 1986 ban did was make them prohibitively expensive. I still fail to understand the difference in an 18" barrel shotgun, and a 17" barrel. Why am I in trouble if my stereo is loud, but also in trouble if my rifle is quiet ?
As far as my limits ? I would say nukes and biological or chemical should be restricted. I have a hard time drawing limits beyond that. My only concern would be the safety of the surrounding area in case of an "oops". That would be for the ammunition, not the delivery system. If someone has a 16" gun from a WWII Battleship, I see no problem. If they have a stockpile of HE rounds for it, and they live within 30 feet of me, I'd be a little concerned. If they live on a 70 square mile ranch in Montana, then by all means, enjoy.
If someone lives within 30 feet of me and has a huge collection of full autos, then I am going to make every attempt to become his newest shooting buddy.
So, what, if any are your limits ?
quote:And; if you think a AUTO AK-47 should be allowed onto a flight and its OK for guns to be carried by folks in criminal proceedings you simply lack the common sense God gave you; or are unwilling to be intellectually honest. Prohibiting weapons on a flight or in courts is not unconstitutional; it is everyday common sense.
OK, what say you to this, then???
Now, what was that you were saying about common sense?? Apparently, common sense is a little more uncommon that you'd have us to believe. I'll choose conventional wisdom over "common" sense, any day!!!
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
I wholeheartedly concur that if the good guys are armed the bad guys are way outnumbered and gonna lose, big time. However, since we face somewhere around 150,000,000 radical Muslims in this world that becomes a problem for us. See, they think that think dying as they kill you and yours is a wonderful idea. That makes traveling rather problematic don't ya think?
There would not be a commercial aircraft left in one piece if we let every Tom, Dick and Hairy on board with guns locked and loaded. Not all folks on this globe are as rational as you and I. We tend to live and let live; they want us to die along with them.
Continuing to blame the gun instead of the individual.
A favorite ploy of the anti-gunners.
We have incompetent boobs handling gun today...we have vicious animals roaming the streets with guns..and we refuse to demand proper punishment for them.
Instead we demand decent citizens obey edicts from on high..edicts that contravene the Constitution.
Flying ? A private company..they have the right to do about what they will. Did the American people have ANY blood running in their veins from the Founders...they would have bankrupted the airlines by refusing to fly again...as I have.
Because you and your type of 'thought processes' have allowed guns to be demonized, by not demanding REAL punishment for the misuse of firearms..is not sufficient grounds for you and your henchmen in the NRA and Congress to infringe upon MY Rights.
Why do you not fly? Most airlines are bankrupt. The big boys that built the world's air travel are all gone.
Because you and your type of 'thought processes' have allowed guns to be demonized, by not demanding REAL punishment for the misuse of firearms..is not sufficient grounds for you and your henchmen in the NRA and Congress to infringe upon MY Rights.
Take a freekin valium man. I have been demanding real punishment for violent crimes committed with guns for 35 years. Where do you get off telling me I do less than you do to defend my rights? I have not "allowed" anything you self righteous tweetie bird....What the hell have you done that actually accomplished something to preserve our rights except run your mouth on this forum??
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
The odds of a single bullet bringing down an airliner are slim to none.....try again
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
The odds of a single bullet bringing down an airliner are slim to none.....try again
Oh; so now you are an aircraft expert? true a single bullet may not directly cause the plane to crash but cascading effects sure can. It is a well documented fact and simply not worth the risk to passengers to have a bunch of guns going off inside the cabin at 37,000 feet.
As far as the other posters question about what other folks do when buying firearms,.........I do what I have to do, have no other choice really. Even though I have a CCW, which requires a thorough background check, and fingerprinting, I still must go through another "simple" check everytime I purchase another one new. Tell me that isn't simply about the fee![}:)] I do get to bypass the 3 day waiting period on a handgun though, but by God, they are going to get their money.
Also a point that some here may not have given thought to. In a state like Florida, we have the waiting period for handguns, and the background checks, but there is supposedly no real "registration". Granted the FFL dealer has all the info in his books,.........but a lot of people send in the little white "warranty" cards to the manufacturer with all of their personal info on it. How easy for a government agency to subpoena the manufacturers records, and gather even more info on the folks that have purchased, what they purchased, and where they live! I never send those things in, as it is against the law to require registration, to abide by a warranty![;)] Sure that most of you do the same, but just throwing out a tidbit for thought.
Although Highball and I do not see eye to eye on the main point (I have even once called him a 'zealot') I do respect his opinion, and frankly have moved towards his line of thinking since that earlier exchange. I, for example, agree with the way form 4473 is structured in that it defers to state law in the determination of a person's fitness to own a firearm. I do not believe that the Federal Government has the Constitutional authority to make any laws regarding types of weapons, calibers, functionality etc.
I firmly believe the all or nothing approach offends the majority to the point that our rights will not be taken seriously, which opens the door to the incremental incursions we have seen for the past 50+ years. I have recently bought into his thinking, however, that we do need a 2nd Amendment Pearl Harbor to actually achieve significant success in rolling back the myriad of gun laws that are now in place.
Every movement needs purists, those that hold to the ideal and show the rest of us the example that a perfect system would allow. Every movement also needs realists that swallow hard at a setback and continue to move forward in meaningful ways with practical methods. The purist will call that selling out, causing realists to reflect. This is exactly why purists are needed.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:And; if you think a AUTO AK-47 should be allowed onto a flight and its OK for guns to be carried by folks in criminal proceedings you simply lack the common sense God gave you; or are unwilling to be intellectually honest. Prohibiting weapons on a flight or in courts is not unconstitutional; it is everyday common sense.
OK, what say you to this, then???
Now, what was that you were saying about common sense?? Apparently, common sense is a little more uncommon that you'd have us to believe. I'll choose conventional wisdom over "common" sense, any day!!!
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
I wholeheartedly concur that if the good guys are armed the bad guys are way outnumbered and gonna lose, big time. However, since we face somewhere around 150,000,000 radical Muslims in this world that becomes a problem for us. See, they think that think dying as they kill you and yours is a wonderful idea. That makes traveling rather problematic don't ya think?
There would not be a commercial aircraft left in one piece if we let every Tom, Dick and Hairy on board with guns locked and loaded. Not all folks on this globe are as rational as you and I. We tend to live and let live; they want us to die along with them.
Welcome to the real world, where anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing.
Will a single bullet bring down a plane?? Unless it hits a fuel line or some major component like that, Nope!! There have been turboprop blades that have gashed a 6 foot long foot wide opening in the hull of a larger plane as a blade hit something, and the plane landed safely.
What happens when a cabin depressurizes?? Air masks come down. Why? For the same reason you mentioned... lack of oxygen in the cabin.
So, I suppose it would be a real inconvenient truth to call to your attention that the ceiling for most of our air liners is 25,000 feet, right???
And I will also say the idea that hostage taking is something I would rather crash a plane over than let them do what they have to do. Fortunately, Richard Reid didn't get off so easily. I still say they should have executed him with a small charge of explosive tied to his neck while he was up to his waste in pig crap, and blow his head clean off. No virgins for you, stupid!!!
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:And; if you think a AUTO AK-47 should be allowed onto a flight and its OK for guns to be carried by folks in criminal proceedings you simply lack the common sense God gave you; or are unwilling to be intellectually honest. Prohibiting weapons on a flight or in courts is not unconstitutional; it is everyday common sense.
OK, what say you to this, then???
Now, what was that you were saying about common sense?? Apparently, common sense is a little more uncommon that you'd have us to believe. I'll choose conventional wisdom over "common" sense, any day!!!
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
I wholeheartedly concur that if the good guys are armed the bad guys are way outnumbered and gonna lose, big time. However, since we face somewhere around 150,000,000 radical Muslims in this world that becomes a problem for us. See, they think that think dying as they kill you and yours is a wonderful idea. That makes traveling rather problematic don't ya think?
There would not be a commercial aircraft left in one piece if we let every Tom, Dick and Hairy on board with guns locked and loaded. Not all folks on this globe are as rational as you and I. We tend to live and let live; they want us to die along with them.
Welcome to the real world, where anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing.
Will a single bullet bring down a plane?? Unless it hits a fuel line or some major component like that, Nope!! There have been turboprop blades that have gashed a 6 foot long foot wide opening in the hull of a larger plane as a blade hit something, and the plane landed safely.
What happens when a cabin depressurizes?? Air masks come down. Why? For the same reason you mentioned... lack of oxygen in the cabin.
So, I suppose it would be a real inconvenient truth to call to your attention that the ceiling for most of our air liners is 25,000 feet, right???
And I will also say the idea that hostage taking is something I would rather crash a plane over than let them do what they have to do. Fortunately, Richard Reid didn't get off so easily. I still say they should have executed him with a small charge of explosive tied to his neck while he was up to his waste in pig crap, and blow his head clean off. No virgins for you, stupid!!!
I agree 100 percent with you on Reid. PLUS the Gitmo guys should get a summary execution for being out of uniform on the field of battle that would stop the whiners about their supposed rights..
It is also painfully obvious that you do not fly much. Most passenger jets do indeed fly at 35-39,000 feet. Since I routinely flew 60,000 plus miles a year in Alaska I am quite familiar with the space under my butt and mother earth. [:D]
Also; the O2 masks are almost worthless at that altitude. There is not enough atmospheric pressure do allow the absorption of the O2 into your blood.
The difference between being a servant of the Elites and a freeman obeying edicts is the KNOWLEGE that you are bowing to tyranny...versus the pathetic "well, if it saves one life, its a good thing " B.S.....
When faced with overwhelming firepower, and very little support from other people, one MUST bow the knee.
The KEY, however, is keeping the knowledge alive about what freedom IS...and isn't....
Bpost..please don't reveal any more ignorance about air planes. I was a mechanic on them for 20 years. A single bullet..or several bullets..have as much chance of bringing down a jetliner as a flea does an elephant.
Ever heard of an 'outflow valve' ? Got any idea what diameter that thing is.??
As far as your participation in the gun rights fight...apparently your fight consists of aiding and abeting gun control laws...since you have such a hard time reading and understanding the Constitution, apparent by your continuing rabid attacks upon REAl Second Amendment supporters...
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:And; if you think a AUTO AK-47 should be allowed onto a flight and its OK for guns to be carried by folks in criminal proceedings you simply lack the common sense God gave you; or are unwilling to be intellectually honest. Prohibiting weapons on a flight or in courts is not unconstitutional; it is everyday common sense.
OK, what say you to this, then???
Now, what was that you were saying about common sense?? Apparently, common sense is a little more uncommon that you'd have us to believe. I'll choose conventional wisdom over "common" sense, any day!!!
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
I wholeheartedly concur that if the good guys are armed the bad guys are way outnumbered and gonna lose, big time. However, since we face somewhere around 150,000,000 radical Muslims in this world that becomes a problem for us. See, they think that think dying as they kill you and yours is a wonderful idea. That makes traveling rather problematic don't ya think?
There would not be a commercial aircraft left in one piece if we let every Tom, Dick and Hairy on board with guns locked and loaded. Not all folks on this globe are as rational as you and I. We tend to live and let live; they want us to die along with them.
Welcome to the real world, where anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing.
Will a single bullet bring down a plane?? Unless it hits a fuel line or some major component like that, Nope!! There have been turboprop blades that have gashed a 6 foot long foot wide opening in the hull of a larger plane as a blade hit something, and the plane landed safely.
What happens when a cabin depressurizes?? Air masks come down. Why? For the same reason you mentioned... lack of oxygen in the cabin.
So, I suppose it would be a real inconvenient truth to call to your attention that the ceiling for most of our air liners is 25,000 feet, right???
And I will also say the idea that hostage taking is something I would rather crash a plane over than let them do what they have to do. Fortunately, Richard Reid didn't get off so easily. I still say they should have executed him with a small charge of explosive tied to his neck while he was up to his waste in pig crap, and blow his head clean off. No virgins for you, stupid!!!
I agree 100 percent with you on Reid. PLUS the Gitmo guys should get a summary execution for being out of uniform on the field of battle that would stop the whiners about their supposed rights..
It is also painfully obvious that you do not fly much. Most passenger jets do indeed fly at 35-39,000 feet. Since I routinely flew 60,000 plus miles a year in Alaska I am quite familiar with the space under my butt and mother earth. [:D]
Also; the O2 masks are almost worthless at that altitude. There is not enough atmospheric pressure do allow the absorption of the O2 into your blood.
Filling out forms, CCW's, ect. are all things that a sane person does, when faced with tyranny.
The difference between being a servant of the Elites and a freeman obeying edicts is the KNOWLEGE that you are bowing to tyranny...versus the pathetic "well, if it saves one life, its a good thing " B.S.....
When faced with overwhelming firepower, and very little support from other people, one MUST bow the knee.
The KEY, however, is keeping the knowledge alive about what freedom IS...and isn't....
Bpost..please don't reveal any more ignorance about air planes. I was a mechanic on them for 20 years. A single bullet..or several bullets..have as much chance of bringing down a jetliner as a flea does an elephant.
Ever heard of an 'outflow valve' ? Got any idea what diameter that thing is.??
As far as your participation in the gun rights fight...apparently your fight consists of aiding and abeting gun control laws...since you have such a hard time reading and understanding the Constitution, apparent by your continuing rabid attacks upon REAl Second Amendment supporters...
You win; Trying to reason with insanity is a waste of my effort. I sure as hell have better things to do with my time. I am not sure what color the sky is in your world but I am sure it is not the reasonable color of sanity. Reason and freedom go hand in hand. Our founders understood that. Delusions of absolutes ring of narcissism.
Single Bullets can and do bring down aircraft; ever hear of the golden BB? If you think other wise I am quite sure that widows and mothers of pilots from WWI through today's fighter pilot's may beg to differ with you.
I am not revealing any ignorance of aircraft, they are my other love besides guns and freedom. You should know better if you actually did work on them for 20 plus years. Are you a UNION puke?? You sure sound like one.
You are so blinded by self adoration and being correct that ANYTHING or any one upsetting your apple cart instantly becomes the enemy; that is NOT me, Highball. I most assuredly agree with about 95% OF EVERYTHING YOU UTTER. But as a free MAN I can also agree to disagree on some things with you. Just as I do with the closest friends I have in my life.
So unless you can prove me wrong; BITE ME on the aircraft issue. Depressurization of an aircraft at 35,000 plus feet is very bad for humans. Lungs go into a tizzy, BP drops and O2 saturation gets critical very fast especially in the old and children. That is why having every Tom, Dick and Hairy armed without purpose on the plane is a bad, unreasonable idea.
But to a super stud MAN the old and infirm are simply in the way, they do not stand tall in the face of tyranny. They do not count, they are not real MEN such as _________ {Fill in the blank.}
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
quote:And; if you think a AUTO AK-47 should be allowed onto a flight and its OK for guns to be carried by folks in criminal proceedings you simply lack the common sense God gave you; or are unwilling to be intellectually honest. Prohibiting weapons on a flight or in courts is not unconstitutional; it is everyday common sense.
OK, what say you to this, then???
Now, what was that you were saying about common sense?? Apparently, common sense is a little more uncommon that you'd have us to believe. I'll choose conventional wisdom over "common" sense, any day!!!
I say that is a feel good comic that has little bearing on reality. The reality is that a single round misplaced on a passenger liner dooms them all anyway.
I wholeheartedly concur that if the good guys are armed the bad guys are way outnumbered and gonna lose, big time. However, since we face somewhere around 150,000,000 radical Muslims in this world that becomes a problem for us. See, they think that think dying as they kill you and yours is a wonderful idea. That makes traveling rather problematic don't ya think?
There would not be a commercial aircraft left in one piece if we let every Tom, Dick and Hairy on board with guns locked and loaded. Not all folks on this globe are as rational as you and I. We tend to live and let live; they want us to die along with them.
Welcome to the real world, where anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing.
Will a single bullet bring down a plane?? Unless it hits a fuel line or some major component like that, Nope!! There have been turboprop blades that have gashed a 6 foot long foot wide opening in the hull of a larger plane as a blade hit something, and the plane landed safely.
What happens when a cabin depressurizes?? Air masks come down. Why? For the same reason you mentioned... lack of oxygen in the cabin.
So, I suppose it would be a real inconvenient truth to call to your attention that the ceiling for most of our air liners is 25,000 feet, right???
And I will also say the idea that hostage taking is something I would rather crash a plane over than let them do what they have to do. Fortunately, Richard Reid didn't get off so easily. I still say they should have executed him with a small charge of explosive tied to his neck while he was up to his waste in pig crap, and blow his head clean off. No virgins for you, stupid!!!
I agree 100 percent with you on Reid. PLUS the Gitmo guys should get a summary execution for being out of uniform on the field of battle that would stop the whiners about their supposed rights..
It is also painfully obvious that you do not fly much. Most passenger jets do indeed fly at 35-39,000 feet. Since I routinely flew 60,000 plus miles a year in Alaska I am quite familiar with the space under my butt and mother earth. [:D]
Also; the O2 masks are almost worthless at that altitude. There is not enough atmospheric pressure do allow the absorption of the O2 into your blood.
That is all speculation.
I'm having a little difficulty believing that single bullets do bring down planes. When was the last time this happened?? You talk about it like it was a plague that led us to the inexorable conclusion that carrying a gun on board a plane was an automatic death sentence....
That is all speculation.
If the plane is still able to fly and all the passengers are injured dead and dying; was the flight a success? My focus has been the folly of having every Tom, Dick and Hairy on the aircraft with a loaded gun.
Having shot competitivly for many years I can tell you one simple truth. Even the most controlled ranges and firing lines have "accidental discharges". If you have spent any time on a range you will know that unsafe gun handling is common. There is some azzhat being a macho man with his new hand cannon to impress his girl. Getting into her panties is on his mind, not safe gun handling.
As a past range officer, well trained to know better, I had an accidental discharge of my trusty 1911 during a match; no one was hurt because I never point at what I don't want to shoot. I also had a mechanical failure on a rifle during a timed match. When the safety was released the rifle went BANG. Lord knows where that bullet went.
I would not be worried by some folks carrying guns on planes in the least. But just as cars crash everyday the chance of a gun accident on an airplane is simply too great and the reward too little to risk it.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Filling out forms, CCW's, ect. are all things that a sane person does, when faced with tyranny.
The difference between being a servant of the Elites and a freeman obeying edicts is the KNOWLEGE that you are bowing to tyranny...versus the pathetic "well, if it saves one life, its a good thing " B.S.....
When faced with overwhelming firepower, and very little support from other people, one MUST bow the knee.
The KEY, however, is keeping the knowledge alive about what freedom IS...and isn't....
Bpost..please don't reveal any more ignorance about air planes. I was a mechanic on them for 20 years. A single bullet..or several bullets..have as much chance of bringing down a jetliner as a flea does an elephant.
Ever heard of an 'outflow valve' ? Got any idea what diameter that thing is.??
As far as your participation in the gun rights fight...apparently your fight consists of aiding and abeting gun control laws...since you have such a hard time reading and understanding the Constitution, apparent by your continuing rabid attacks upon REAl Second Amendment supporters...
You win; Trying to reason with insanity is a waste of my effort. I sure as hell have better things to do with my time. I am not sure what color the sky is in your world but I am sure it is not the reasonable color of sanity. Reason and freedom go hand in hand. Our founders understood that. Delusions of absolutes ring of narcissism.
Single Bullets can and do bring down aircraft; ever hear of the golden BB? If you think other wise I am quite sure that widows and mothers of pilots from WWI through today's fighter pilot's may beg to differ with you.
I am not revealing any ignorance of aircraft, they are my other love besides guns and freedom. You should know better if you actually did work on them for 20 plus years. Are you a UNION puke?? You sure sound like one.
You are so blinded by self adoration and being correct that ANYTHING or any one upsetting your apple cart instantly becomes the enemy; that is NOT me, Highball. I most assuredly agree with about 95% OF EVERYTHING YOU UTTER. But as a free MAN I can also agree to disagree on some things with you. Just as I do with the closest friends I have in my life.
So unless you can prove me wrong; BITE ME on the aircraft issue. Depressurization of an aircraft at 35,000 plus feet is very bad for humans. Lungs go into a tizzy, BP drops and O2 saturation gets critical very fast especially in the old and children. That is why having every Tom, Dick and Hairy armed without purpose on the plane is a bad, unreasonable idea.
But to a super stud MAN the old and infirm are simply in the way, they do not stand tall in the face of tyranny. They do not count, they are not real MEN such as _________ {Fill in the blank.}
In red above. It would take several bullets piercing the skin of an airplane to cause "depressurization." The aircraft valve that controls pressure by opening and closing as needed is much larger than any opening several rifle or handgun bullets could ever make.
Besides, if a group of ragheads were getting control of a plane my family and I are on, I would rather place my bet on the outcome controlled by a few lawful American citizens pulling their guns. I have much more faith in my lawful fellow Americans than I would by relying on the outcome if the ragheads were allowed to continue their evil plan.
With that said, there are pros and cons for allowing licensed CCW citizen handgun owners to carry on a plane. Neither idea is perfect, but then how many ideas are?
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Filling out forms, CCW's, ect. are all things that a sane person does, when faced with tyranny.
The difference between being a servant of the Elites and a freeman obeying edicts is the KNOWLEGE that you are bowing to tyranny...versus the pathetic "well, if it saves one life, its a good thing " B.S.....
When faced with overwhelming firepower, and very little support from other people, one MUST bow the knee.
The KEY, however, is keeping the knowledge alive about what freedom IS...and isn't....
Bpost..please don't reveal any more ignorance about air planes. I was a mechanic on them for 20 years. A single bullet..or several bullets..have as much chance of bringing down a jetliner as a flea does an elephant.
Ever heard of an 'outflow valve' ? Got any idea what diameter that thing is.??
As far as your participation in the gun rights fight...apparently your fight consists of aiding and abeting gun control laws...since you have such a hard time reading and understanding the Constitution, apparent by your continuing rabid attacks upon REAl Second Amendment supporters...
You win; Trying to reason with insanity is a waste of my effort. I sure as hell have better things to do with my time. I am not sure what color the sky is in your world but I am sure it is not the reasonable color of sanity. Reason and freedom go hand in hand. Our founders understood that. Delusions of absolutes ring of narcissism.
Single Bullets can and do bring down aircraft; ever hear of the golden BB? If you think other wise I am quite sure that widows and mothers of pilots from WWI through today's fighter pilot's may beg to differ with you.
I am not revealing any ignorance of aircraft, they are my other love besides guns and freedom. You should know better if you actually did work on them for 20 plus years. Are you a UNION puke?? You sure sound like one.
You are so blinded by self adoration and being correct that ANYTHING or any one upsetting your apple cart instantly becomes the enemy; that is NOT me, Highball. I most assuredly agree with about 95% OF EVERYTHING YOU UTTER. But as a free MAN I can also agree to disagree on some things with you. Just as I do with the closest friends I have in my life.
So unless you can prove me wrong; BITE ME on the aircraft issue. Depressurization of an aircraft at 35,000 plus feet is very bad for humans. Lungs go into a tizzy, BP drops and O2 saturation gets critical very fast especially in the old and children. That is why having every Tom, Dick and Hairy armed without purpose on the plane is a bad, unreasonable idea.
But to a super stud MAN the old and infirm are simply in the way, they do not stand tall in the face of tyranny. They do not count, they are not real MEN such as _________ {Fill in the blank.}
In red above. It would take several bullets piercing the skin of an airplane to cause "depressurization." The aircraft valve that controls pressure by opening and closing as needed is much larger than any opening several rifle or handgun bullets could ever make.
Besides, if a group of ragheads were getting control of a plane my family and I are on, I would rather place my bet on the outcome controlled by a few lawful American citizens pulling their guns. I have much more faith in my lawful fellow Americans than I would by relying on the outcome if the ragheads were allowed to continue their evil plan.
With that said, there are pros and cons for allowing licensed CCW citizen handgun owners to carry on a plane. Neither idea is perfect, but then how many ideas are?
But, but, but.....When we have our RIGHTS as DECLARED by REAL MEN you don't need a CCW. ITS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.....[}:)][;)][:0][:)] that seems to be the only response to any carry laws.
so you will be on board with drunks, divorce victims and nut cases all armed to the hilt. Why bother exposing your self to such a disaster waiting to happen if you don't have to. Put the guns in the baggage until the flight lands then arm your self to the teeth if it makes you feel safer. I'm happy with a S&W 686.
Even if cabin pressure is not an issue to some how about a fire caused by bullets shorting out wires? Have you ever seen the rats nest of wires inside a 737 wall? Fires on planes are common and very deadly.
How about errant bullets flying around hitting your granny in the forehead. She was on the way to see her new grandson and got shot because some dumbazzed Imam wanted to do the payer rug routine and somebody got gun happy.
There is no right answer to this quandary. Airlines unfortunately for us are governed by the FAA. If the free market was working we would have armed; trained "passengers" on every flight. We could rest easy and watch the movie knowing that if someone got froggy they would be dealt with in a professional manner with the least chance of granny getting popped too.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Filling out forms, CCW's, ect. are all things that a sane person does, when faced with tyranny.
The difference between being a servant of the Elites and a freeman obeying edicts is the KNOWLEGE that you are bowing to tyranny...versus the pathetic "well, if it saves one life, its a good thing " B.S.....
When faced with overwhelming firepower, and very little support from other people, one MUST bow the knee.
The KEY, however, is keeping the knowledge alive about what freedom IS...and isn't....
Bpost..please don't reveal any more ignorance about air planes. I was a mechanic on them for 20 years. A single bullet..or several bullets..have as much chance of bringing down a jetliner as a flea does an elephant.
Ever heard of an 'outflow valve' ? Got any idea what diameter that thing is.??
As far as your participation in the gun rights fight...apparently your fight consists of aiding and abeting gun control laws...since you have such a hard time reading and understanding the Constitution, apparent by your continuing rabid attacks upon REAl Second Amendment supporters...
You win; Trying to reason with insanity is a waste of my effort. I sure as hell have better things to do with my time. I am not sure what color the sky is in your world but I am sure it is not the reasonable color of sanity. Reason and freedom go hand in hand. Our founders understood that. Delusions of absolutes ring of narcissism.
Single Bullets can and do bring down aircraft; ever hear of the golden BB? If you think other wise I am quite sure that widows and mothers of pilots from WWI through today's fighter pilot's may beg to differ with you.
I am not revealing any ignorance of aircraft, they are my other love besides guns and freedom. You should know better if you actually did work on them for 20 plus years. Are you a UNION puke?? You sure sound like one.
You are so blinded by self adoration and being correct that ANYTHING or any one upsetting your apple cart instantly becomes the enemy; that is NOT me, Highball. I most assuredly agree with about 95% OF EVERYTHING YOU UTTER. But as a free MAN I can also agree to disagree on some things with you. Just as I do with the closest friends I have in my life.
So unless you can prove me wrong; BITE ME on the aircraft issue. Depressurization of an aircraft at 35,000 plus feet is very bad for humans. Lungs go into a tizzy, BP drops and O2 saturation gets critical very fast especially in the old and children. That is why having every Tom, Dick and Hairy armed without purpose on the plane is a bad, unreasonable idea.
But to a super stud MAN the old and infirm are simply in the way, they do not stand tall in the face of tyranny. They do not count, they are not real MEN such as _________ {Fill in the blank.}
In red above. It would take several bullets piercing the skin of an airplane to cause "depressurization." The aircraft valve that controls pressure by opening and closing as needed is much larger than any opening several rifle or handgun bullets could ever make.
Besides, if a group of ragheads were getting control of a plane my family and I are on, I would rather place my bet on the outcome controlled by a few lawful American citizens pulling their guns. I have much more faith in my lawful fellow Americans than I would by relying on the outcome if the ragheads were allowed to continue their evil plan.
With that said, there are pros and cons for allowing licensed CCW citizen handgun owners to carry on a plane. Neither idea is perfect, but then how many ideas are?
But, but, but.....When we have our RIGHTS as DECLARED by REAL MEN you don't need a CCW. ITS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.....[}:)][;)][:0][:)] that seems to be the only response to any carry laws.
so you will be on board with drunks, divorce victims and nut cases all armed to the hilt.Just as on the ground, it would be illegal for a drunk to be in possession of a gun. Few divorce victims turn homicidal. If lawful, honest people were to so quickly and easily turn homicidal, I would share your fears. True "nuts cases" are already not allowed to buy or even possess guns Why bother exposing your self to such a disaster waiting to happen if you don't have to. Put the guns in the baggage until the flight lands then arm your self to the teeth if it makes you feel safer. I'm happy with a S&W 686.
Even if cabin pressure is not an issue to some how about a fire caused by bullets shorting out wires? Have you ever seen the rats nest of wires inside a 737 wall? Fires on planes are common and very deadly. how about a meteor falling out of the sky, hitting the plane and making it crash? Life is full of "what if's"
How about errant bullets flying around hitting your granny in the forehead. She was on the way to see her new grandson and got shot because some dumbazzed Imam wanted to do the payer rug routine and somebody got gun happy.
There is no right answer to this quandary. Airlines unfortunately for us are governed by the FAA. If the free market was working we would have armed; trained "passengers" on every flight. We could rest easy and watch the movie knowing that if someone got froggy they would be dealt with in a professional manner with the least chance of granny getting popped too.
If anyone wants to be trusted with their guns, they need to be trusting of other citizens who have done nothing to have lost that trust. In addition, whenever you finally allow peaceful, lawful citizens to carry firearms for protection, there unfortuntely will be a few accidents, unjustified shootings, and good people suddenly going bad. That is just a sad fact of life in that no situation is perfect, without risk, etc. If you are going to give a particular freedom to citizens, especially a freedom they deserve, all you can do is hope for the best. But overall there will be a net gain because now armed citizens can actually have a chance of resisting the armed murderers, robbers and rapists without haveing to rely on nothing but their teeth and fingernails for weapons and therefore there will be overall fewer citizens harmed by guns.
Freedom is not free.
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Filling out forms, CCW's, ect. are all things that a sane person does, when faced with tyranny.
The difference between being a servant of the Elites and a freeman obeying edicts is the KNOWLEGE that you are bowing to tyranny...versus the pathetic "well, if it saves one life, its a good thing " B.S.....
When faced with overwhelming firepower, and very little support from other people, one MUST bow the knee.
The KEY, however, is keeping the knowledge alive about what freedom IS...and isn't....
Bpost..please don't reveal any more ignorance about air planes. I was a mechanic on them for 20 years. A single bullet..or several bullets..have as much chance of bringing down a jetliner as a flea does an elephant.
Ever heard of an 'outflow valve' ? Got any idea what diameter that thing is.??
As far as your participation in the gun rights fight...apparently your fight consists of aiding and abeting gun control laws...since you have such a hard time reading and understanding the Constitution, apparent by your continuing rabid attacks upon REAl Second Amendment supporters...
You win; Trying to reason with insanity is a waste of my effort. I sure as hell have better things to do with my time. I am not sure what color the sky is in your world but I am sure it is not the reasonable color of sanity. Reason and freedom go hand in hand. Our founders understood that. Delusions of absolutes ring of narcissism.
Single Bullets can and do bring down aircraft; ever hear of the golden BB? If you think other wise I am quite sure that widows and mothers of pilots from WWI through today's fighter pilot's may beg to differ with you.
I am not revealing any ignorance of aircraft, they are my other love besides guns and freedom. You should know better if you actually did work on them for 20 plus years. Are you a UNION puke?? You sure sound like one.
You are so blinded by self adoration and being correct that ANYTHING or any one upsetting your apple cart instantly becomes the enemy; that is NOT me, Highball. I most assuredly agree with about 95% OF EVERYTHING YOU UTTER. But as a free MAN I can also agree to disagree on some things with you. Just as I do with the closest friends I have in my life.
So unless you can prove me wrong; BITE ME on the aircraft issue. Depressurization of an aircraft at 35,000 plus feet is very bad for humans. Lungs go into a tizzy, BP drops and O2 saturation gets critical very fast especially in the old and children. That is why having every Tom, Dick and Hairy armed without purpose on the plane is a bad, unreasonable idea.
But to a super stud MAN the old and infirm are simply in the way, they do not stand tall in the face of tyranny. They do not count, they are not real MEN such as _________ {Fill in the blank.}
In red above. It would take several bullets piercing the skin of an airplane to cause "depressurization." The aircraft valve that controls pressure by opening and closing as needed is much larger than any opening several rifle or handgun bullets could ever make.
Besides, if a group of ragheads were getting control of a plane my family and I are on, I would rather place my bet on the outcome controlled by a few lawful American citizens pulling their guns. I have much more faith in my lawful fellow Americans than I would by relying on the outcome if the ragheads were allowed to continue their evil plan.
With that said, there are pros and cons for allowing licensed CCW citizen handgun owners to carry on a plane. Neither idea is perfect, but then how many ideas are?
But, but, but.....When we have our RIGHTS as DECLARED by REAL MEN you don't need a CCW. ITS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.....[}:)][;)][:0][:)] that seems to be the only response to any carry laws.
so you will be on board with drunks, divorce victims and nut cases all armed to the hilt.Just as on the ground, it would be illegal for a drunk to be in possession of a gun. Few divorce victims turn homicidal. If lawful, honest people were to so quickly and easily turn homicidal, I would share your fears. True "nuts cases" are already not allowed to buy or even possess guns Why bother exposing your self to such a disaster waiting to happen if you don't have to. Put the guns in the baggage until the flight lands then arm your self to the teeth if it makes you feel safer. I'm happy with a S&W 686.
Even if cabin pressure is not an issue to some how about a fire caused by bullets shorting out wires? Have you ever seen the rats nest of wires inside a 737 wall? Fires on planes are common and very deadly. how about a meteor falling out of the sky, hitting the plane and making it crash? Life is full of "what if's"
How about errant bullets flying around hitting your granny in the forehead. She was on the way to see her new grandson and got shot because some dumbazzed Imam wanted to do the payer rug routine and somebody got gun happy.
There is no right answer to this quandary. Airlines unfortunately for us are governed by the FAA. If the free market was working we would have armed; trained "passengers" on every flight. We could rest easy and watch the movie knowing that if someone got froggy they would be dealt with in a professional manner with the least chance of granny getting popped too.
If anyone wants to be trusted with their guns, they need to be trusting of other citizens who have done nothing to have lost that trust. In addition, whenever you finally allow peaceful, lawful citizens to carry firearms for protection, there unfortuntely will be a few accidents, unjustified shootings, and good people suddenly going bad. That is just a sad fact of life in that no situation is perfect, without risk, etc. If you are going to give a particular freedom to citizens, especially a freedom they deserve, all you can do is hope for the best. But overall there will be a net gain because now armed citizens can actually have a chance of resisting the armed murderers, robbers and rapists without haveing to rely on nothing but their teeth and fingernails for weapons and therefore there will be overall fewer citizens harmed by guns.
Freedom is not free.
I agree with all that.
I pay my fees, and buy my guns, and will continue to do so, and no one will stop me if I want another pistol or such. I have been asked many times by my own mother, and my fiance, why I have so many guns? You guys will laugh, but I have a bit over a dozen! I don't need to explain why I want another pistol or shotgun,............I pay for it, and am a law abiding citizen, and don't feel the need to limit what I buy because it is TOO many! This is a country based upon capitalism, at least it used to be,...........stay the hell out of my business, unless I cross over the line. Only one item may cause me to cross that line, and I think some of you know what that is![;)]
Dang! Then we have.......agreement. Unheard of on the Gun Rights Forum[:o)]
I sure learned that fast!!!![:D][:D]
I am busy building an additional 16 feet of workbench in the gun room today. I need more room to clean and work on my toys.... It is raining cats and dogs outside and I don't have my outdoor shooting bench covered; (YET) [:D]
You guys be nice until I can get back. [:o)]
One bullet MAY bring down a jetliner..just as a single bullet fired over water or into the air MAY kill somebody a mile away.
S*** happens. Explosive decompression is NOT what is going to happen, however..with a single bullet...or even a short burst from a full auto.
There are multiply back-up systems on jets...even if a hydraulic system is breached, there are
safties built into the system to prevent total failures.
That is not enough of a risk that I will allow a 5 buck-an-hour dofuss to disarm me...nor allow the government to dictate the limits of my personal safety.
Once again...if you support gun control..it is plenty obvious that you distrust your fellow citizens, distrust your OWN abilities to handle a situation...and trust mercenaries with firearms and your life.
I don't.The citizen is INTANTLY reachable..and a court of law, if it comes to that, has a chance, however small, of reaching justice.
No such avenue exists for redress from out of control government thugs.
Bpost is INDEED right about one aspect of his disertation.
One bullet MAY bring down a jetliner..just as a single bullet fired over water or into the air MAY kill somebody a mile away.
S*** happens. Explosive decompression is NOT what is going to happen, however..with a single bullet...or even a short burst from a full auto.
There are multiply back-up systems on jets...even if a hydraulic system is breached, there are
safties built into the system to prevent total failures.
That is not enough of a risk that I will allow a 5 buck-an-hour dofuss to disarm me...nor allow the government to dictate the limits of my personal safety.
Once again...if you support gun control..it is plenty obvious that you distrust your fellow citizens, distrust your OWN abilities to handle a situation...and trust mercenaries with firearms and your life.
I don't.The citizen is INTANTLY reachable..and a court of law, if it comes to that, has a chance, however small, of reaching justice.
No such avenue exists for redress from out of control government thugs.
There is only one thing in this life you have control over Highball; it is yourself. I don't know about you but there has been a time or two when I wondered if I even had that. Every day you put your very life in the hands of morons making minimum wage. Every day you are exposed to countless dangers, not one damn bit of it is your choice.
There is not enough time in twenty lifetimes to do diddly-squat about it.
There was NEVER a time in this nation when the Gub'ment was UNDER CONTROL. Having something other than yourself under control is an illusion, plain and simple. Living in a world where EVERYBODY is armed would not be a place I would choose to live. Since control is an illusion so is your personal safety. We are never safe anywhere at anytime. S&!T truly does happen.
Safety is an illusion.
You prefer armed thugs protecting you and your loved ones.
I prefer myself and other decent citizens being armed and in control of our immediate surrounding..as is written in one of those old documents that most people choose to ignore....
We agree on one thing only.
Safety is an illusion.
You prefer armed thugs protecting you and your loved ones.
I prefer myself and other decent citizens being armed and in control of our immediate surrounding..as is written in one of those old documents that most people choose to ignore....
Actually I sleep better knowing God is in charge. If he allows me another day here on earth, I'll be glad. Just to be helpful to him I do have a .45 close by while I slumber.
You control only yourself; your surroundings are not controllable in the least. But if you got problems you can count on me. I'll help the best I can!
Remember, tho...he made it possible for you, I...or your 110 pound wife to be the equal of a 240 pound hopped up on crack thug....
and p*** on governments or people trying to take away that advantage.
By the way...you mentioned that you agreed ' 95 %' with me.
Please...you are not agreeing with me, precisely...but with the Founders..those REAL hero's that had the courage to wade in blood to gain freedom....and determined that NEVER AGAIN would a government have the power to subjucate the citizens..
Would that we today had learned the lessons they taught....
We don't need to see the same foot long posts, repeated, and added to multiple times, unless you are attempting to respond to all of that! Maybe you "fellas" like it that way?
As for the C&P stuff, yes guys, this has been getting bad in recent months. There is no need to C&P a string of eight responses just because you have 3 or 4 comments that pertain to them. I would appreciate if only the few specific sentences are copied that are relevent to your response. Or better yet, just post the name of the person you are responding too. Most of us ACTUALLY DO READ ALL OF THE POSTS in this forum. Pasting them over again 14 times doesn't make us read them again. It just increases the time to load the page and makes us all use that scroll button even more!
That is okay. I had a problem with this for the longest time as well. I used to shoot 2 to 3 times a week at a local indoor range. I would see things there that made me cringe. Several times I walked to my stall, looked down the line at my fellow shooters, and walked right out without firing a shot because I didn't like what I saw.
I now live near a public outdoor range that has no rangemaster. It is like swimming at a public pool without a lifeguard. Again, there are times when I drive up, look at the shooters, and drive away without even getting out of the car. So what is the answer? More gun laws because people are stupid? If anything, over the past 18 months especially, I have learned that every single idiot out there with a gun (either legally or illegally) is even more reason why I should be able to legally carry MY GUN in any situation that I CHOOSE. The real idiots are not suddenly going to become safer because another law gets passed, and many of them are not following the current laws. The only way to handle these people is to enforce the penalties that already exist. I say, if you intentionally or through your negligence destroy, injure, or kill people or property, then you should be facing some serious felony charges. The idiots should only get one chance to screw up, then they should be paying for it. Instead we have a society that is always trying to excuse or rehabilitate the criminals and idiots, while us normal law-abiding folks just get more of our rights taken away. I'm tired of being lumped in with all the idiots. The government has no right to assume anything about me, that is why we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. I have never stood before a judge nor ever been convicted by a jury, so where the hell are my rights?
Unfortunately, TRTKBA gets the same - if not less - disrespect that the 1st and other Amendments do.
Examples:
Imus gets fired for making a stupid, sophomoric remark.
Cashiers at the checkout don't have to touch or handle pork or alcohol if their religion forbids it AND they can't be disciplined for what we used to call insubordination. And so, someone else, anyone else, has to touch it for them.
Muslim Imans get to act wierdly and overtly in public before boarding a plane and then systematically sue those who acted logically and responsibly towards them by removing them from the flight.
Illegal immigrants can break a myriad of laws - Federal and State and local - and enjoy basking in the protective shelter that our society's largesse strains to lavish upon them.
Sadly, we live in a paranoid society that seeks to "excuse" and "overlook" rather than run the risk required to hold individuals accountable or responsible, except in the case of a Don Imus. His debacle is IMO vintage and selective discrimination at its best; done so solely to elicit a specific knee-jerk response from a terrified society that flagellates itself daily for whatever it can bring itself to feel guilty about. Fear of litigation, fear of losing money, fear of standing up and being counted.
The question of the day now for many Americans is: "Who are we apologizing to today?" Why doesn't matter.
The dimwit at the range, who in a moment of sheer stupidity hurts or kills someone, will invariably have the opportunity to blame everyone else for his own actions - and, in a court of law, probably win an acquittal!!! Mom. Dad. Uncle Phineas. His teacher. His priest. Someone else - innocent and unsuspecting - will get dragged down into the dimwit's abyss and possibly end up bearing the brunt of the misdeed. Everyone on death row magically finds Jesus as the date with the executioner draws nearer. Wife-beaters blame mom or dad for the "mythical" abuse they suffered as children. Etc., etc., etc. ad nauseum. No one wants to be held truly accountable for his or her own actions. And our society eagerly assists them in denying culpability.
Logically, it follows that punishment should be meted out appropriate to the offense. But no so here in America, folks. Not so here. Our collective "balls" are being kept in a large mayonnaise jar somewhere on an ultra-liberal's nightstand.
We have met the enemy and it is us.
Wounded Wolf,......thanks for the accolades, and I wish there were more gun owners like us , and Highball, who seems to be a magnet for "dislike",........why I don't understand. I happen to agree with most all that he is saying. I have never been a "feelgood" person,........don't need to be! I have always busted my rear, and done more than my fair share of things for others, and get very little in return. Mind you, I am not looking for anything, as I prefer to take care of things myself, but it IS amusing when you see a person that you have done multiple things for, and if you even mention them helping you with something,...........they really would like to, but they happen to have plans that can't be changed everytime! LOL
I, like you live near an unsupervised range that has become very dangerous, due to all of the unwatched teenagers, with their latest Tech 9's or such. That is why I joined a "private", members only range that costs money. To me that is taking action to get what you want,.............life is not free, nor guaranteed, like so many think today. I have always been told that I think like an older person, even when I was much younger and less experienced. I often feel like I was born into the wrong time,.........don't get me wrong, I love my life, but just don't understand so many things that must float through the vacant minds of people today.
My life does not revolve around guns, but why should we have to face this constant onslaught from politicos, and the gun owners themselves, that want to feel good! They are willing to give away rights that our founding fathers gave us for a REASON, so that they may feel all "cushy",......they may have saved someones life by not fighting a bill, or by waiting 3 to 5 days or more for their handgun that they simply want for protection, or to shoot at the range! Does any rational person remotely believe that a criminal is going to be affected by this? I feel lost sometimes in this age of political correctness. The libs have always sucked in my opinion,.........no offense to anyone that is a Democrat, as I came from a family that always voted a straight Dem ticket,..........I was the first Republican, when I started to vote, which was around 28 years of age. I know, I missed out on 10 years of my responsibility,.....just being honest here! Now I even feel deserted by my own party, and the president that I voted for twice,.........I really don't wish to become an offshoot of Mexico, nor continue to see what we are calling "immigrants" today, continue to take over this country, and make us ever more "non-productive", and farm out jobs overseas. This is sad to say, as it is very selfish, but at this point, I am simply hoping to be able to live my life before it all falls apart, and we start to see cattle, and people on bikes, taking up the streets, when we become a third world country.
My rant is over for now,.........you guys take care![;)]
The Sharpton's and Jackson's et al feast upon that naivete or ambivalence of minorities to maintain their own prominence and power base.
Expensive bling-bling today is more important than an Associates or Bachelors Degree down the road. The separatist and exclusionary practice of embracing the African heritage two centuries removed only divides society further.
Yet, when Bill Cosby - talk about a pretty successful black man - lashes out at his fellow blacks for their continued "dropping of the ball", he is the one who is criticized and chastized. And so, the situation remains strategically unchanged. And a good time was had by all.
So yes, no one wants to accept any responsibility for why their life is the way it is. It's got to be someone else's - anybody else's - fault.
The senseless shooting tragedy in Virginia MUST be someone's fault before we're done. Blame must be assigned even if it's unwarranted. The goody-two-shoes of society need closure more than they need the truth.
ANY belief other then;
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right on the point. if anyone's curious to see what this "we're just happy with what we're allowed and we'll comply" attitude did and does with people -- pick into calguns.net forum. it's less than pathetic and lower than low. but i guess we haven't yet arrived to the point where there're no more shades, and most likely won't in our life time, though who knows.
another comment i just have to make, if it hasn't been made here before -- doesn't anyone see and understand that gun grabbers are subverting this great country? how's it not high treason to disarm or prevent citizen from arming themselves against what the 2A says?