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I can see where TR is coming from, and i can see where Highball is coming from as well. Both have good valid points. My stance on this issue is that ANY LAW THAT IS PASSED TO RESTRICT MY RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL! ! ! ! However, if what was said was true, and that before the CCW laws were enacted persons in those states could not carry at all then yes i would say that, that is progress. However "Progress" can be misconstrued (SP?) look at Iraq and Mr. President's concept of "Progress" Indiana and Alaska know what the hell they are doing. The other states---not so much. Highball, I do not like the CCW law or any fire arm law any more than you do, but we do have to live be and follow the rules. i would rather have the CCW law and carry then not carry at all. I hate the CCW laws and i think that they are illegal. I agree that something does need to be done in order for the U.S. as a whole to see that this gross distortion of our rights is going on. I do not know much about the NRA, but what i do know is that they also have a political agenda. Being in a Command unit in the army, there are a lot of things that go on behind the scenes that a lot of people don't know about. Same is true about the NRA. THEY DO HAVE A POLITICAL AGENDA. As Freemind said, if the NRA took a hard * stance like a lot of people here on Gun Broker i don't think that the NRA would get very far. I really don't want to get into the whole "compromise" debate because i think that we have all beat that horse more than its fair share, but I am just thankful that my state allows me to carry unlike some others. Hopefully in the future this will change, but it will only change with devoted owners like ourselves fighting for OUR GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS ! ! !
Actually Highball this has been going on in my head for some time... Just out of curiosity, what are we supposed to do, or what do you recommend we do. surely we cannot hold up your local court houses, or march on the white house and demand our rights back that simply wont work. the NRA will not help us which has already been seen. And i do not think that gun owners could form their own political party and try control the government like the dirty rats, (i mean democrats) are trying to do...what are owners like us to do to actually make a difference? what do you do to make a difference?
quote:Originally posted by Aaron.Combs1
I can see where TR is coming from, and i can see where Highball is coming from as well. Both have good valid points. My stance on this issue is that ANY LAW THAT IS PASSED TO RESTRICT MY RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL! ! ! ! However, if what was said was true, and that before the CCW laws were enacted persons in those states could not carry at all then yes i would say that, that is progress. However "Progress" can be misconstrued (SP?) look at Iraq and Mr. President's concept of "Progress" Indiana and Alaska know what the hell they are doing. The other states---not so much. Highball, I do not like the CCW law or any fire arm law any more than you do, but we do have to live be and follow the rules. i would rather have the CCW law and carry then not carry at all. I hate the CCW laws and i think that they are illegal. I agree that something does need to be done in order for the U.S. as a whole to see that this gross distortion of our rights is going on. I do not know much about the NRA, but what i do know is that they also have a political agenda. Being in a Command unit in the army, there are a lot of things that go on behind the scenes that a lot of people don't know about. Same is true about the NRA. THEY DO HAVE A POLITICAL AGENDA. As Freemind said, if the NRA took a hard * stance like a lot of people here on Gun Broker i don't think that the NRA would get very far. I really don't want to get into the whole "compromise" debate because i think that we have all beat that horse more than its fair share, but I am just thankful that my state allows me to carry unlike some others. Hopefully in the future this will change, but it will only change with devoted owners like ourselves fighting for OUR GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS ! ! !
Anyone see the contradiction here???
H ell, we can't even agree amongst ourselves and we are the supposed gun-rights crowd.
I wonder how the general population viewed the "hard a ss" crowd in the late 1700's, when that "hard a ss" crowd recommended, ranted, raved and shouted out, about freedom and throwing off the British yoke?????
I wonder how many in those times felt that we should compromise with the Brits and arrive at some "sensible" government solution, without fighting among, or dividing ourselves?
I wonder where we would all be if that "hard a ss" crowd of "no compromise" patriots, had agreed to moderate their positions and go along with conventional wisdom?
The POINT is...By GOD do NOT jerk my chain and proclaim what an "Advancement" of Gun Rights CCWs are...
Just because SOME people are so conditioned by propaganda to believe whatever a suit tells them to believe...SOME of us know the truth !!
What warped, twisted 'logic' is it to beg on your knees to the masters for the privilege to protect yourself and your loved ones from harm...and then proclaim your great victory ?
Somehow...you put one over on them ? Hell no..you just admitted that you HAVE no God given rights AT ALL..because the most BASIC Right is the Right of self protection.
You may go and GET the CW...KNOWING in your mind that you are an implacable enemy of the Beast...or you get it grateful to the Beast for slightly relaxing his iron gripe..too stupid to realize that the Beast is gathering information on his subjects......catagorizing those that might be a problem in the future.
none taken, i know where you are comming from, and i agree with you. however that situation was different. that was the brits that came to our soil and tried to take over. Our government is doing that to us now, and as its citizens, we are almost powerless nowdays to do anything about it without fear of retrobution. I HATE THE GOVERNMENT AND WHAT IT HAS BECOME, but unless i or some one else that hold the 2nd for what it is THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED become the president, the house, the senate, and the supreme court all in one, Things are not going to change. The 2nd amendment was put in place to keep this very thing from hapening. Over the years, retarted persons have used sway, propoganda, and lies to dope the citizens of the U.S. into thinking that the Laws aginst firearms are needed. THE GOVERNMENT IS SCARED OF US! ! ! they do not and will not hold the 2nd amendment to the standars that it should for this very reason. My question to highball was how can we fight aginst our government, when our government has made that almost impossibe?
We have been assualted on EVERY level...not just gun rights.
I believe that those in power are determined to make a One World Government...and we are slated to fall as a independent nation.
I believe futher that every decent citizen ought to withdraw from the political process..ALL the begging, the crawling to slimy suits ..the writting to editors..and stop pressuring the NRA about gun laws.
Allow those pieces of garbage in power their head.
YOUR job is to prepare yourself and your family for hard times. Condition your mind into the mindset that YOU WILL NOT GO WILLINGLY INTO THAT LONG DARK NIGHT that is being prepared for us by the sold out powerful people that despise your guts.
Indeed i have started. other than writing lettets to my congressman (who is pro firearm)i do nothing as far as the political side of the house goes. and they can have my guns, but the bullets go first. and i dont miss.
quote:Originally posted by Aaron.Combs1
none taken, i know where you are comming from, and i agree with you. however that situation was different. that was the brits that came to our soil and tried to take over. Our government is doing that to us now, and as its citizens, we are almost powerless nowdays to do anything about it without fear of retobution. I HATE THE GOVERNMENT AND WHAT IT HAS BECOME, but unless i or some one else that hold the 2nd for what it is THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED become the president, the house, the senate, and the supreme court all in one, Things are not going to change. The 2nd amendment was put in place to keep this very thing from hapening. Over the years, retarted persons have used sway, propoganda, and lies to dope the citizens of the U.S. into thinking that the Laws aginst firearms are needed. THE GOVERNMENT IS SCARED OF US! ! ! they do not and will not hold the 2nd amendment to the standars that it should for this very reason. My question to highball was how can we fight aginst our government, when our government has made that almost impossibe?
I for one, do not wish to fight the government.
I love my country and our Constitutional Republic. We as a nation, however, have obviously gone astray. There are a myriad of reasons why we have been led down this road and I am not going to rehash them in this post (you can all thank me for sparing you that horror [:o)]).
I believe that we citizens must become aware, educated and alert. We must hope for and work toward a good resolution, such as could come if enough people wake the h ell up and understand the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Conversely, we must prepare and be ready for whatever may come if things go badly.
Our only real hope is to educate the populace and hold our elected representatives to task and to acting only as the Bill of Rights allows government to act.
If enough are educated, sufficient pressure and accountability could be exercised to do just that. No longer would people be labeled as "radical". or "a fringe nut", or some other such nonsense, merely for speaking out about adhering to Constitutional Principals.
Realistically, that probably isn't going to happen and things will get worse, until we are lost, or some "tipping point" is reached and people act.
We shall see....
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I am in a "hoping" mood.[;)]
that was a rather childish comment. I am just curious. you say that you are pro firearm, and are a steadfast defender in the 2nd and the right to carry as well as personel protection, yet you do not have a CCW. are you not the one who said that you do not break nor endorse illegal acts in the catagory of firearms. i am not trying to argue with you, i just want to know why.
Of course, it was childish..ungentlemanly, and you gave far more information then was needed.
The point being...stop beating about the bush and ask what you REALLY want to ask.
If you insist upon breaking the law..be prepared to pay the piper. The Beast is in control..obey or pay.
AS an individual, I make the decisions about my personal future. I will NOT advocate others decisions concerning their personal lives.
Just as an aside..as of yet, carrying without a permit is not a felony yet, here...unlike full-autos and such. Penalties are much lighter....
ok, thats cool, if you want to do that then i dont mind. I guess it is alright if one has enough sence not to be retarded with a firearm if no CCW is present. i am positive you are one of those persons. though i do not agree with your choice to cary without a permit when it is the law (even though it should not be) you are more than welcome to do it. but i highly doubt that the excuse "but officer it is my God given right" will keep you from havnig your weapon taken and you put in jail for unlawful possesion of a firearm.
I can but reiterate;
quote:If you insist upon breaking the law..be prepared to pay the piper. The Beast is in control..obey or pay.
quote:mind. I guess it is alright if one has enough sence not to be retarded with a firearm if no CCW is present. i am positive you are one of those persons. though i do not agree with your choice to Careful...you are speaking the party line that I rail against.
I have taken what passes for 'Gun Training' for the CCW...out of curiosity...and it is a positive JOKE...on ANY level.
I knew more about self defense with a handgun at 15 then was taught in the class...]
government training means diddly squat about ability with a weapon.
Highball, here is a small, simple, "street scene" example of the difference between you and I regarding our approach to gun control.
As I stop my car at a stop light, a car jacker jumps into the passenger seat while holding a knife on me. He demands my car BUT also demands I hand over my wallet. I ACT like I am reaching for my wallet but instead I reach for my CCW firearm, pull it and kill the car jacker.
In your case, the moment the car jacker jumps into your car, you pull your handgun (no negoations or compromise on your part) and attempt to shoot the carjacker dead. Now you may be successful in shooting the carjacker. But since you did nothing to distract him as you reached for your gun, it may be that he will get you in the neck with his knife before you can draw and fire. But even if you are successful and kill the carjacker, now you have to worry about being serious trouble with the legal system, and maybe never being able to legally own a firearm again, because you were carrying without a permit.
So, at the end of the day, I legally saved my life, took a scumbag off the street, and can continue to fight for a restoration of the 2A in regards to it being a constitutional right.
That is the difference between you and I, yet you always have harsh criticism for people who take such a position as I have taken.
tr fox wrote:
"Vermont has long allowed concealed carry without a permit. 1989 was the first year I believe that any state issued a CCW to the general population."
I just can't stand it when misinformation gets passed. Florida wasn't even the first "Shall Issue" State. I won't speak for any other state but Georgia passed its Concealed Carry Law prior to 1974 when it was a "May Issue" policy. I believe it was around 1988/89 when the State adopted the "Shall Issue" policy. I've had mine since 1975 after I returned to CONUS after a 7-year OUTUS tour. This was back when the "Permit" was ONLY good within the state lines. No other state recognized my permit. Although a GA. Permit is good for any firearm, it still gets you on a list as a firearm owner. Some states require the permit be for a specific weapon. Now, you are not only ID'ed as an owner, they have another record of what you own. I called the Sheriff's Office for the actual date the Law was enacted, they didn't know. So, I called the Probate Court, the issuing authority, they didn't know. The Judge said she thought around 1969 but wasn't sure. It could have been 1973. They did however send out a "List Server" to other State Probate Courts, for the date. I'll let you know IF I ever get THE answer. I called again this morning and they are mailing what they have received so far but it doesn't sound like what I requested.
I will also add that I can proudly say that Georgia has a D rating with the Brady Bunch. I wish it were an F- but I'll accept a D for now, and hope we can improve our standing.
OBTW tr fox: I don't know the law where Highball lives but a CCW is not required here to have a weapon in your vehicle!!!
It496:
Your response to sig232 was very impressive, why haven't we heard more of your wisdom over here?
OBTW: He is also wrong in regard to O'Reilly. Yes on the EGO, but no matter what he says he still supports gun control!!! (As well as other amendment infringements). I call him on it (e-mail) every time he brings up the subject.
trfox wrote:
"OK, to demonstrate our anger at having lost so many constitutional gun rights, how about if we all sign a petition and request that all the 48 states CCW laws be voided? "
If you are willing to expend that kind of effort, why not up the ante and DEMAND the repeal of ALL Gun Laws as the UN-Constitutional BS that they happen to be.
Highball wrote:
"Congratulations for all your hard work.
The last major court case MAY be a step in the right direction...again...no thanks to your organization, the NRA... working tirelessly, as always, to water down gun rights.
Again...any time you want to join forces.. Repeat after me...NO GOVERNMENT CONTROLS ON FIREARMS...NONE !!!!"
Let me agree 100%.
Aaron.Combs1 Wrote:
"that situation was different. that was the brits that came to our soil and tried to take over."
WADR ---- I DON'T see the Difference!!! This time the enemy of the "We The People" just happens to be OUR OWN GOVERNMENT and it's Socialist, Global, and One World Government Agenda. Our elected officials are presently vying for their positions of power without regard to the Constitution or the will of the people they supposedly represent.
tr quote:No city can pass a gun law stricter than that state's laws,
Explain Denver. Your precious Colorado CCW license is ignored there. Pickenup, who was the guy that took Denver to task on this and was left high and dry by the saintly NRA? Is he out of jail yet for exercising his right..err/umm privelege?
In Florida, you do not have to possess a CCW either to have a weapon in your vehicle. Look at the differences in practicality though!
If you have no CCW,.......you must abide by the 3 move rule,.....I assume you are familiar with what that means,i.e., pistol in the glovebox,.......in a box or holster.
With CCW, I carry mine in the space between the sun visors in my Avalanche. All I need to do is pop the thumbreak, and draw,.......done. Cocked, and ready to rock, if needed. There is a difference!
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
tr quote:No city can pass a gun law stricter than that state's laws,
Explain Denver. Your precious Colorado CCW license is ignored there. Pickenup, who was the guy that took Denver to task on this and was left high and dry by the saintly NRA? Is he out of jail yet for exercising his right..err/umm privelege?
Some people just are looking for a chance to criticize. I was referring to our Kansas state laws (and there are a few others) that recently passed the law I mentioned about no city can pass a gun law stricter than what the state passes. In regards to your complaint about the "guy in Denver" he was actually carrying a visible firearm as should be allowed by the Colo State Constitution. Look it up instead being so quick to grip and find fault with my postings.
BTW, perhaps you and others here belong to the AAA or the American Motorcycle Assn. or some similar organization. You joined and paid your dues. Do you expect organizations like them, or any similar organization, to spend thousands of dollars they don't have and send teams of lawyers each and everytime one of their members gets into a legal problem? In addition, since you seem to have a grudge against the NRA, just what pro-gun organizations DO you believe in and support? I'm asking a question here so please answer. Why don't you complain about one of them not helping "that guy in Denver?".
That's great. I have a CCW as well and it's not required to transport a firearm in my vehicle either. It could be in the console, the glove box, or on my person w/CCW. Without, In Plain View.
Wagon Wheel. i am sorry about the comparison between the Brits during the revolution. However they did try to invade our homeland (or what we took from the natives) in any case, our government then was the actual government in which we all refer to when we talk about the Constitution and the fore fathers. 1775-1778 they held the Constitution sacred, believed it word for word, fought and died for it. Hell that is what the whole war was based on. Some may think it was the Declaration of Independence, but the Declaration did not give us our rights. the declaration only told King George to shove it up his A55, and that we would not be messed with. The Constitution is what gave us the rights, as well as the Articles of Confederation before that. The Government backed the citizens in the revolt against the British, and called for militia members to pick up arms. this is not the case today, because it is the government that is trying to invade and oppress not another country, and that was the point that i was trying to make. sorry if i did not explain it very well in my previous post, but any one who knows anything about the Revolution or American history would know the comparison that i was trying to make.
quote:Without, In Plain View
There is a big difference in state laws! You can only do that, as I do, here, with a CCW. It is all incredibly stupid, and most importantly unconstitutional, but it is what we must live by for the time being, unless you are willing to be arrested.
We had a brief period here back in the early eighties, I believe, where open carry was allowed. It lasted the whole of about a month or two, if I recall correctly. All the libs were saying that Florida was going to turn into the "wild west",........with people gunning down one another, over minor grievances! Never happened,.........not one instance, but it was done away with very quickly, for the "good of all". Folks didn't like seeing a person walk into a gas station with a .357 strapped to his side!
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
TrFox;
You are not fighting for 'Gun Rights'...you are fighting for privileges. there is a vast difference...
Lines in the sand......Were I to use a gun to prevent harm to myself or a loved one...and governmnent insisted upon making me a criminal over it...that would be THEIR choice. At that moment, a line would be crossed.
For me, the REAL fight for gun rights would begin...and waiting for others would no longer be an option.
good point HB +1 now i can see your argument alittle more clearly, and why you dont carry a CCW.[:)] many of us want to find a way to fight without the whole legal issues. some of us cannot afford to go that route. from your side of the river however, i see that you dont care, and in a way would gladly become a martyr for gun rights if it so happened uppon you. though i do not feel like falling on my own sword as of yet, i am sure there will be a day. when that comes, hopefully not in my lifetime, if SHTF then i stand by what i said in my previous post. alittle cliche' but: they can have my guns, but they will get the bullets first, and I dont miss...[xx(]. im glad you are on our side.
quote:Originally posted by Aaron.Combs1
The Constitution is what gave us the rights, as well as the Articles of Confederation before that.
Um, no . GOD gave us the rights. The bill of rights enumberated them and limited GOVERNMENT from passing laws to remove/alter those very RIGHTS.
And as a side thought: Why does it matter if the enemy(read tyranny) comes from FORGEIN soil or NATIVE soil? Is not a mass murderer like Ted Bundy any less dangerous than say Al Crappa from sandy land? It matters not where the enemy hails from, they are still the enemy. They all want to remove OUR RIGHTS, and dominate our souls by fear and force. You think the government FEARS us? NO. They crush any opposition/organization so there can be no FIGHT.
I am happy to see you are so well versed in American/Revolutionary War history. LOL. Now apply what you know to present day activities by our Federal Government. You were responding to It496 and my only point was that there really IS NO DIFFERENCE in what the Colonials were revolting against and what we should be revolting against NOW. The "BRITS" came here to subdue the colonials. The Socialists (and now the Muslims and Mexicans) CAME here and through an extensive system of indoctrination and subversion have infiltrated and corrupted every facet of our government. We are unconstitutionally taxed to death without TRUE representation, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are ignored/usurped almost daily by politicians that ignore constituents wishes and what's best for the country in favor of self gratification and power. Our new Politically Correct Government is systematically stripping Law-abiding citizens of the RTKABA's, spying on and shutting down American groups that take the name MILITIA but on the flip side allow MILITANT ISLAMIST GROUPS to OPENLY operate Terrorist Training Camps ON U.S. SOIL!!!!
Maybe you would like to replace "Brits' with "Islamic-Fascists", "Muslims", "Mexicans" or better yet "Corrupted Politicians" and instead of "CAME" admit it's an "Inside" job.
And if you think I may be wrong here as well, READ THIS:
Springtime in Islamberg: Radical Muslim paramilitary compound flourishes in upper New York state
By Paul L. Williams Ph.D., (author of THE DAY OF ISLAM)
With the able assistance of Douglas Hagmann, Bill Krayer and Michael Travis
Friday, May 11, 2007 http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/paul-williams051107.htm
That list includes Macon, Ga. where the Mayor recently, openly AND with lots of media coverage, converted to Islam. The Ex-mayor serves in congress.
Another Example: Hillary was raised and started her political career as a model Conservative Republican. She worked for and trained under Barry Goldwater. While attending college her indoctrination began, she started studying socialist propaganda and shifted allegiance to the Democratic Party. Tell you anything? Look at the democratic agenda. It has socialism written all over it!! AND they are bending over backwards to accommodate the Muslims at every turn. Our schools and Universities have been transformed into Anti-American Indoctrination Centers.
And by the way, I do acknowledge and share your distain for the present function of what we call our government.
WagonWheel,........sure you also feel this way about taxation. We are being "double taxed", which is also unconstitutional,.......take the so-called "death tax"! How many times has that money already been taxed previously, but they still have to get their hands on more, even after the poor slob taxpayer, is six feet under!
What the problem is in a nutshell, as far as taxation goes, is the government was originally meant to provide for the defense of the nation, and to provide a certain amount of infrastructure,.......everything else was supposed to be an action of the individual states. Now they take care of almost every need of this welfare mentality population that we have! Socialism is only a brief walk down the road!
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
Yes,.....it is all a real joy![}:)]
I have my own business, an S Corp, so I get to pay double SS/MC taxes, as employer, and employee.
Also in addition to the 941's that I must pay monthly,.......I now get to make personal quarterly 1040ES "estimated tax" payments, because of the issue you mentioned above,......investments. They want to make sure that they don't have to wait for April 15th. to get your money.
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
I'm retired and live on a fixed income. My property taxes alone went up 85% last year. COL raise, 3%. It won't be long before they tax me right off the place. Those quarterlies are to get the good out of you in case your investments go south before tax day!!!
I feel your pain! My property taxes are now about $1,800.00 per year, but would be trple that if I just bought this house! I am "protected" by an amendment in Florida, that limits the amount taxes can go up on homesteaded property, after you qualify for it, by living there for so many years.
My homeowners insurance, is about $2,500.00 a year,........combine that with health insurance, and there goes 9K, right off the top! Add in all the other taxes, and taxes on investments, and sometimes I feel like,.........why am I breaking my a**?
Oh well,........I recover from those thoughts quickly, as I come from a hard working family background, and still have what many today, do not,.......something called "pride". I will continue on in all ways, until all of us "underlings", finally get fed up, and the time for change is here. Hope it actually happens!
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
To me the Constitution is very clear, the second amendment is written well and is hard to dispute.
But look where we are today, the truth has been twisted and the spin convincing to the masses. The second amendment to the swing vote is sold as giving the right to hunters to own a bolt action rifle or a shotgun, for hunting or selfprotection.
The spin meisters and others will tell you that most guns were single shot back when the founders wrote the Constitution. Most had rifles for protection and hunting. So they say that all other guns may be regulated. The Constitution doesn't spell out "all guns" or even "military guns" just says the right of the people shall not be infringed. But to own one gun may satisfy that right, according to the spin of the lawyers! This is the discussion that our gun rights groups face today.
I have been a life NRA member since the 1960's. As government has grown in the individual states, cities and the Federal level I have watched the armies of Lawyers sweep aside the NRA as if it were a flea on the back of a elephant! Gun rights and many other individual rights have been modified and assualted from all sides during that time. I hardly recognize this country as the country that I remember as a child.
Government has grown to a level that is impossible to control. Even a President taking over for the first time will understand soon that he/she cannot hope to change much in a term or two. There is a mentality among the unionized government workers that is a lot different from the other worker bees out there making a living.
It would be wonderful to return America to a point where it was idealistic and young and strong with a hopefull future. Of course the country had very little population at that time and did not have to deal with the hords of peole that live in the cities today.
Things have changed folks! To return to those principals that existed when our government was first formed would take another Boston Tea Party. That is not going to happen and you know it.
So..........you have to work with the cards that you are dealt! Its a committee of millions of folks all over America making gun laws today. The majority of the population does not hunt anymore, most do not attend gun related events. Lots of people will say that they think individuals should own guns but when you quiz them as to what that means they have many different answers.
Again the NRA does not make gun laws, they have very little influence. They get blamed by lawmakers as supporting lots of different gun laws that they did not agree with. At 4.3 million they are not going to scare many politicians. They are deamonized by many folks out there that are hired specifically to demonize them and others. They are doing battle with a growning giant that will be hard to ever defeat. In my opinion they are our best chance to retain gun ownership for a long time to come.
Unless there is a major effort to form a unified force of gun owners to legally oppose the liberal lawyers intent on disarming America this country will lose all gun rights within the next 50 years. In my humble opinion.
Aaron Combs, peace be with you and may God protect you in Iraq.
My analogy to the CCW situation...
The world is overpopulated, so imagine the government outlaws childbirth. Anyone who gives birth or fathers a child will be tried as a felon. After great public outcry, the government sets up a "birthing permit" system. Couples can pay $100 for a parenting class and then another $200 or so to apply for a Birthing Permit. After they pass a background check, and maybe some blood tests and DNA profile, they may be issued the Birthing Permit to have children.
We will have four kinds of people as a result of this system:
#1. People that don't want to have children, or are too scared to have them, and will never need to participate in the system.
#2. People that like the system because they feel it makes them safer, makes their neighbors more accountable and responsible, and makes them feel "special" because they are "priviledged" enough to qualify for the permit.
#3. People that hate the system because it violates a basic human right and injects goverment into matters which it should have no business or control over. Yet these people still go along with the system and keep their mouths shut so that they can live their lives and fulfill the basic need to procreate.
#4. People who openly oppose and violate the new system, either out of financial hardship or rejection on principle, have children anyway, and thus risk being caught and convicted and losing everything they have.
I would probably find myself in category #3. And yes, I do have a Nevada CCW, and in fact just applied for a Utah non-resident CCW which will give me reciprocity in about a dozen other states. I don't like the fact that I had to pay upwards of $500 for these "priviledges", but I feel my right to self-defense and defense of my family is important enough to jump through these hoops. It isn't right, I shouldn't have had to do it, but in the end I will be armed LEGALLY.
The government knows exactly who I am, they know exactly what I own, but they don't know if I am in category #3 above or if I am in category #2. Meanwhile, I will keep my head down while they expend their resources identifying and rounding up those people in category #4.
sig 232, let me reorder a couple of quotes from you:
quote:Unless there is a major effort to form a unified force of gun owners to legally oppose the liberal lawyers intent on disarming America this country will lose all gun rights within the next 50 years.
To return to those principals that existed when our government was first formed would take another Boston Tea Party.
I think that pretty clearly defines the problem and the solution.
One more comment on COMPROMISE (which has been mulled for years on this forum)....
Back when Cardinal Ratzinger became the new Pope Benedict XVI, a very liberal co-worker of mine made the comment, "So much for abortion!".
This comment confused me very much. Despite the fact that Cardinal Ratzinger is a very hard-line conservative Catholic, I couldn't imagine ANY pope, regardless of how liberal, going along with abortion. But this is an insight into the mindset of the radical liberals in our society. In my liberal co-worker's mind, she actually BELIEVED that a liberal pope might endorse abortion!
The sad truth is that in a few decades, the liberals may actually be able to incrementally force the Catholic Church into buying off on abortion. We have seen the same results of incremental compromise in our gun rights. This is the danger of compromise. It may not seem so bad at the time, but it is destroying our posterity. What may at first be seen as a grudging compromise is taken as NORMAL by the next generation. And eventually you get to where we are today, where most of society has no real understanding of what their basic rights are, not to mention any inkling of what it would be like to FIGHT for their rights.
Listen to what Highball says about compromise. It is a very real threat to all of our rights.
Wolf,........I would agree with you totally on the child issue, except for a point you left out! With you, I know it was a missed thought, as I am sure you are not in favor of my return point.
Sometimes, when I see the "dullard" parents that exist, I have been of the opinion that one should need a "permit" to have a child in this day and age.
Obviously, that would be unconstitutional to a major degree. The only thing I WILL say is,............I am getting tired of paying for people that can't afford the children they create, and feel like someone else should pay their way, and provide all kinds of benefits to them, because they were, and are,........irresponsible. Some of these folks can't even take care of themselves, much less raise children.
That is where the "little demons", that have no soul, or concern for anything, but themselves, are coming from. Don't think I need to mention the benefits we give to illegal aliens, for their children, and the fact that if a "Burrito" mama, happens to be able to get her butt across the border, and drop the umpteenth child,........that child is now a US citizen, just like we are, and we are going to pay out the wazoo, for everything they want, and need!
This country is trying to create a "Utopia", which will never exist on this earth. We will fail, but it will turn us into a third world country, in the process.[;)]
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
Comments
We stand opposed.
You bow your knee willingly to those advancing tyranny....I do not.
I can see where TR is coming from, and i can see where Highball is coming from as well. Both have good valid points. My stance on this issue is that ANY LAW THAT IS PASSED TO RESTRICT MY RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL! ! ! ! However, if what was said was true, and that before the CCW laws were enacted persons in those states could not carry at all then yes i would say that, that is progress. However "Progress" can be misconstrued (SP?) look at Iraq and Mr. President's concept of "Progress" Indiana and Alaska know what the hell they are doing. The other states---not so much. Highball, I do not like the CCW law or any fire arm law any more than you do, but we do have to live be and follow the rules. i would rather have the CCW law and carry then not carry at all. I hate the CCW laws and i think that they are illegal. I agree that something does need to be done in order for the U.S. as a whole to see that this gross distortion of our rights is going on. I do not know much about the NRA, but what i do know is that they also have a political agenda. Being in a Command unit in the army, there are a lot of things that go on behind the scenes that a lot of people don't know about. Same is true about the NRA. THEY DO HAVE A POLITICAL AGENDA. As Freemind said, if the NRA took a hard * stance like a lot of people here on Gun Broker i don't think that the NRA would get very far. I really don't want to get into the whole "compromise" debate because i think that we have all beat that horse more than its fair share, but I am just thankful that my state allows me to carry unlike some others. Hopefully in the future this will change, but it will only change with devoted owners like ourselves fighting for OUR GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS ! ! !
Anyone see the contradiction here???
H ell, we can't even agree amongst ourselves and we are the supposed gun-rights crowd.
I wonder how the general population viewed the "hard a ss" crowd in the late 1700's, when that "hard a ss" crowd recommended, ranted, raved and shouted out, about freedom and throwing off the British yoke?????
I wonder how many in those times felt that we should compromise with the Brits and arrive at some "sensible" government solution, without fighting among, or dividing ourselves?
I wonder where we would all be if that "hard a ss" crowd of "no compromise" patriots, had agreed to moderate their positions and go along with conventional wisdom?
I wonder......
No disrespect intended Aaron.
Just because SOME people are so conditioned by propaganda to believe whatever a suit tells them to believe...SOME of us know the truth !!
What warped, twisted 'logic' is it to beg on your knees to the masters for the privilege to protect yourself and your loved ones from harm...and then proclaim your great victory ?
Somehow...you put one over on them ? Hell no..you just admitted that you HAVE no God given rights AT ALL..because the most BASIC Right is the Right of self protection.
You may go and GET the CW...KNOWING in your mind that you are an implacable enemy of the Beast...or you get it grateful to the Beast for slightly relaxing his iron gripe..too stupid to realize that the Beast is gathering information on his subjects......catagorizing those that might be a problem in the future.
I believe that those in power are determined to make a One World Government...and we are slated to fall as a independent nation.
I believe futher that every decent citizen ought to withdraw from the political process..ALL the begging, the crawling to slimy suits ..the writting to editors..and stop pressuring the NRA about gun laws.
Allow those pieces of garbage in power their head.
YOUR job is to prepare yourself and your family for hard times. Condition your mind into the mindset that YOU WILL NOT GO WILLINGLY INTO THAT LONG DARK NIGHT that is being prepared for us by the sold out powerful people that despise your guts.
none taken, i know where you are comming from, and i agree with you. however that situation was different. that was the brits that came to our soil and tried to take over. Our government is doing that to us now, and as its citizens, we are almost powerless nowdays to do anything about it without fear of retobution. I HATE THE GOVERNMENT AND WHAT IT HAS BECOME, but unless i or some one else that hold the 2nd for what it is THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED become the president, the house, the senate, and the supreme court all in one, Things are not going to change. The 2nd amendment was put in place to keep this very thing from hapening. Over the years, retarted persons have used sway, propoganda, and lies to dope the citizens of the U.S. into thinking that the Laws aginst firearms are needed. THE GOVERNMENT IS SCARED OF US! ! ! they do not and will not hold the 2nd amendment to the standars that it should for this very reason. My question to highball was how can we fight aginst our government, when our government has made that almost impossibe?
I for one, do not wish to fight the government.
I love my country and our Constitutional Republic. We as a nation, however, have obviously gone astray. There are a myriad of reasons why we have been led down this road and I am not going to rehash them in this post (you can all thank me for sparing you that horror [:o)]).
I believe that we citizens must become aware, educated and alert. We must hope for and work toward a good resolution, such as could come if enough people wake the h ell up and understand the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Conversely, we must prepare and be ready for whatever may come if things go badly.
Our only real hope is to educate the populace and hold our elected representatives to task and to acting only as the Bill of Rights allows government to act.
If enough are educated, sufficient pressure and accountability could be exercised to do just that. No longer would people be labeled as "radical". or "a fringe nut", or some other such nonsense, merely for speaking out about adhering to Constitutional Principals.
Realistically, that probably isn't going to happen and things will get worse, until we are lost, or some "tipping point" is reached and people act.
We shall see....
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I am in a "hoping" mood.[;)]
What color are your wifes' drawers ? Does she have a mole..there ?
that was a rather childish comment. I am just curious. you say that you are pro firearm, and are a steadfast defender in the 2nd and the right to carry as well as personel protection, yet you do not have a CCW. are you not the one who said that you do not break nor endorse illegal acts in the catagory of firearms. i am not trying to argue with you, i just want to know why.
The point being...stop beating about the bush and ask what you REALLY want to ask.
If you insist upon breaking the law..be prepared to pay the piper. The Beast is in control..obey or pay.
AS an individual, I make the decisions about my personal future. I will NOT advocate others decisions concerning their personal lives.
Just as an aside..as of yet, carrying without a permit is not a felony yet, here...unlike full-autos and such. Penalties are much lighter....
quote:If you insist upon breaking the law..be prepared to pay the piper. The Beast is in control..obey or pay.
quote:mind. I guess it is alright if one has enough sence not to be retarded with a firearm if no CCW is present. i am positive you are one of those persons. though i do not agree with your choice to Careful...you are speaking the party line that I rail against.
I have taken what passes for 'Gun Training' for the CCW...out of curiosity...and it is a positive JOKE...on ANY level.
I knew more about self defense with a handgun at 15 then was taught in the class...]
government training means diddly squat about ability with a weapon.
As I stop my car at a stop light, a car jacker jumps into the passenger seat while holding a knife on me. He demands my car BUT also demands I hand over my wallet. I ACT like I am reaching for my wallet but instead I reach for my CCW firearm, pull it and kill the car jacker.
In your case, the moment the car jacker jumps into your car, you pull your handgun (no negoations or compromise on your part) and attempt to shoot the carjacker dead. Now you may be successful in shooting the carjacker. But since you did nothing to distract him as you reached for your gun, it may be that he will get you in the neck with his knife before you can draw and fire. But even if you are successful and kill the carjacker, now you have to worry about being serious trouble with the legal system, and maybe never being able to legally own a firearm again, because you were carrying without a permit.
So, at the end of the day, I legally saved my life, took a scumbag off the street, and can continue to fight for a restoration of the 2A in regards to it being a constitutional right.
That is the difference between you and I, yet you always have harsh criticism for people who take such a position as I have taken.
tr fox wrote:
"Vermont has long allowed concealed carry without a permit. 1989 was the first year I believe that any state issued a CCW to the general population."
I just can't stand it when misinformation gets passed. Florida wasn't even the first "Shall Issue" State. I won't speak for any other state but Georgia passed its Concealed Carry Law prior to 1974 when it was a "May Issue" policy. I believe it was around 1988/89 when the State adopted the "Shall Issue" policy. I've had mine since 1975 after I returned to CONUS after a 7-year OUTUS tour. This was back when the "Permit" was ONLY good within the state lines. No other state recognized my permit. Although a GA. Permit is good for any firearm, it still gets you on a list as a firearm owner. Some states require the permit be for a specific weapon. Now, you are not only ID'ed as an owner, they have another record of what you own. I called the Sheriff's Office for the actual date the Law was enacted, they didn't know. So, I called the Probate Court, the issuing authority, they didn't know. The Judge said she thought around 1969 but wasn't sure. It could have been 1973. They did however send out a "List Server" to other State Probate Courts, for the date. I'll let you know IF I ever get THE answer. I called again this morning and they are mailing what they have received so far but it doesn't sound like what I requested.
I will also add that I can proudly say that Georgia has a D rating with the Brady Bunch. I wish it were an F- but I'll accept a D for now, and hope we can improve our standing.
OBTW tr fox: I don't know the law where Highball lives but a CCW is not required here to have a weapon in your vehicle!!!
It496:
Your response to sig232 was very impressive, why haven't we heard more of your wisdom over here?
OBTW: He is also wrong in regard to O'Reilly. Yes on the EGO, but no matter what he says he still supports gun control!!! (As well as other amendment infringements). I call him on it (e-mail) every time he brings up the subject.
trfox wrote:
"OK, to demonstrate our anger at having lost so many constitutional gun rights, how about if we all sign a petition and request that all the 48 states CCW laws be voided? "
If you are willing to expend that kind of effort, why not up the ante and DEMAND the repeal of ALL Gun Laws as the UN-Constitutional BS that they happen to be.
Highball wrote:
"Congratulations for all your hard work.
The last major court case MAY be a step in the right direction...again...no thanks to your organization, the NRA... working tirelessly, as always, to water down gun rights.
Again...any time you want to join forces.. Repeat after me...NO GOVERNMENT CONTROLS ON FIREARMS...NONE !!!!"
Let me agree 100%.
Aaron.Combs1 Wrote:
"that situation was different. that was the brits that came to our soil and tried to take over."
WADR ---- I DON'T see the Difference!!! This time the enemy of the "We The People" just happens to be OUR OWN GOVERNMENT and it's Socialist, Global, and One World Government Agenda. Our elected officials are presently vying for their positions of power without regard to the Constitution or the will of the people they supposedly represent.
Explain Denver. Your precious Colorado CCW license is ignored there. Pickenup, who was the guy that took Denver to task on this and was left high and dry by the saintly NRA? Is he out of jail yet for exercising his right..err/umm privelege?
If you have no CCW,.......you must abide by the 3 move rule,.....I assume you are familiar with what that means,i.e., pistol in the glovebox,.......in a box or holster.
With CCW, I carry mine in the space between the sun visors in my Avalanche. All I need to do is pop the thumbreak, and draw,.......done. Cocked, and ready to rock, if needed. There is a difference!
tr quote:No city can pass a gun law stricter than that state's laws,
Explain Denver. Your precious Colorado CCW license is ignored there. Pickenup, who was the guy that took Denver to task on this and was left high and dry by the saintly NRA? Is he out of jail yet for exercising his right..err/umm privelege?
Some people just are looking for a chance to criticize. I was referring to our Kansas state laws (and there are a few others) that recently passed the law I mentioned about no city can pass a gun law stricter than what the state passes. In regards to your complaint about the "guy in Denver" he was actually carrying a visible firearm as should be allowed by the Colo State Constitution. Look it up instead being so quick to grip and find fault with my postings.
BTW, perhaps you and others here belong to the AAA or the American Motorcycle Assn. or some similar organization. You joined and paid your dues. Do you expect organizations like them, or any similar organization, to spend thousands of dollars they don't have and send teams of lawyers each and everytime one of their members gets into a legal problem? In addition, since you seem to have a grudge against the NRA, just what pro-gun organizations DO you believe in and support? I'm asking a question here so please answer. Why don't you complain about one of them not helping "that guy in Denver?".
That's great. I have a CCW as well and it's not required to transport a firearm in my vehicle either. It could be in the console, the glove box, or on my person w/CCW. Without, In Plain View.
There is a big difference in state laws! You can only do that, as I do, here, with a CCW. It is all incredibly stupid, and most importantly unconstitutional, but it is what we must live by for the time being, unless you are willing to be arrested.
We had a brief period here back in the early eighties, I believe, where open carry was allowed. It lasted the whole of about a month or two, if I recall correctly. All the libs were saying that Florida was going to turn into the "wild west",........with people gunning down one another, over minor grievances! Never happened,.........not one instance, but it was done away with very quickly, for the "good of all". Folks didn't like seeing a person walk into a gas station with a .357 strapped to his side!
You are not fighting for 'Gun Rights'...you are fighting for privileges. there is a vast difference...
Lines in the sand......Were I to use a gun to prevent harm to myself or a loved one...and governmnent insisted upon making me a criminal over it...that would be THEIR choice. At that moment, a line would be crossed.
For me, the REAL fight for gun rights would begin...and waiting for others would no longer be an option.
The Constitution is what gave us the rights, as well as the Articles of Confederation before that.
Um, no . GOD gave us the rights. The bill of rights enumberated them and limited GOVERNMENT from passing laws to remove/alter those very RIGHTS.
And as a side thought: Why does it matter if the enemy(read tyranny) comes from FORGEIN soil or NATIVE soil? Is not a mass murderer like Ted Bundy any less dangerous than say Al Crappa from sandy land? It matters not where the enemy hails from, they are still the enemy. They all want to remove OUR RIGHTS, and dominate our souls by fear and force. You think the government FEARS us? NO. They crush any opposition/organization so there can be no FIGHT.
Just my half cent.
I am happy to see you are so well versed in American/Revolutionary War history. LOL. Now apply what you know to present day activities by our Federal Government. You were responding to It496 and my only point was that there really IS NO DIFFERENCE in what the Colonials were revolting against and what we should be revolting against NOW. The "BRITS" came here to subdue the colonials. The Socialists (and now the Muslims and Mexicans) CAME here and through an extensive system of indoctrination and subversion have infiltrated and corrupted every facet of our government. We are unconstitutionally taxed to death without TRUE representation, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are ignored/usurped almost daily by politicians that ignore constituents wishes and what's best for the country in favor of self gratification and power. Our new Politically Correct Government is systematically stripping Law-abiding citizens of the RTKABA's, spying on and shutting down American groups that take the name MILITIA but on the flip side allow MILITANT ISLAMIST GROUPS to OPENLY operate Terrorist Training Camps ON U.S. SOIL!!!!
Maybe you would like to replace "Brits' with "Islamic-Fascists", "Muslims", "Mexicans" or better yet "Corrupted Politicians" and instead of "CAME" admit it's an "Inside" job.
And if you think I may be wrong here as well, READ THIS:
Springtime in Islamberg: Radical Muslim paramilitary compound flourishes in upper New York state
By Paul L. Williams Ph.D., (author of THE DAY OF ISLAM)
With the able assistance of Douglas Hagmann, Bill Krayer and Michael Travis
Friday, May 11, 2007
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/paul-williams051107.htm
That list includes Macon, Ga. where the Mayor recently, openly AND with lots of media coverage, converted to Islam. The Ex-mayor serves in congress.
Another Example: Hillary was raised and started her political career as a model Conservative Republican. She worked for and trained under Barry Goldwater. While attending college her indoctrination began, she started studying socialist propaganda and shifted allegiance to the Democratic Party. Tell you anything? Look at the democratic agenda. It has socialism written all over it!! AND they are bending over backwards to accommodate the Muslims at every turn. Our schools and Universities have been transformed into Anti-American Indoctrination Centers.
And by the way, I do acknowledge and share your distain for the present function of what we call our government.
What the problem is in a nutshell, as far as taxation goes, is the government was originally meant to provide for the defense of the nation, and to provide a certain amount of infrastructure,.......everything else was supposed to be an action of the individual states. Now they take care of almost every need of this welfare mentality population that we have! Socialism is only a brief walk down the road!
Even my taxes are taxed. And god forbid some smuck has any money left over for savings, they tax that too!!!
I have my own business, an S Corp, so I get to pay double SS/MC taxes, as employer, and employee.
Also in addition to the 941's that I must pay monthly,.......I now get to make personal quarterly 1040ES "estimated tax" payments, because of the issue you mentioned above,......investments. They want to make sure that they don't have to wait for April 15th. to get your money.
I'm retired and live on a fixed income. My property taxes alone went up 85% last year. COL raise, 3%. It won't be long before they tax me right off the place. Those quarterlies are to get the good out of you in case your investments go south before tax day!!!
My homeowners insurance, is about $2,500.00 a year,........combine that with health insurance, and there goes 9K, right off the top! Add in all the other taxes, and taxes on investments, and sometimes I feel like,.........why am I breaking my a**?
Oh well,........I recover from those thoughts quickly, as I come from a hard working family background, and still have what many today, do not,.......something called "pride". I will continue on in all ways, until all of us "underlings", finally get fed up, and the time for change is here. Hope it actually happens!
But look where we are today, the truth has been twisted and the spin convincing to the masses. The second amendment to the swing vote is sold as giving the right to hunters to own a bolt action rifle or a shotgun, for hunting or selfprotection.
The spin meisters and others will tell you that most guns were single shot back when the founders wrote the Constitution. Most had rifles for protection and hunting. So they say that all other guns may be regulated. The Constitution doesn't spell out "all guns" or even "military guns" just says the right of the people shall not be infringed. But to own one gun may satisfy that right, according to the spin of the lawyers! This is the discussion that our gun rights groups face today.
I have been a life NRA member since the 1960's. As government has grown in the individual states, cities and the Federal level I have watched the armies of Lawyers sweep aside the NRA as if it were a flea on the back of a elephant! Gun rights and many other individual rights have been modified and assualted from all sides during that time. I hardly recognize this country as the country that I remember as a child.
Government has grown to a level that is impossible to control. Even a President taking over for the first time will understand soon that he/she cannot hope to change much in a term or two. There is a mentality among the unionized government workers that is a lot different from the other worker bees out there making a living.
It would be wonderful to return America to a point where it was idealistic and young and strong with a hopefull future. Of course the country had very little population at that time and did not have to deal with the hords of peole that live in the cities today.
Things have changed folks! To return to those principals that existed when our government was first formed would take another Boston Tea Party. That is not going to happen and you know it.
So..........you have to work with the cards that you are dealt! Its a committee of millions of folks all over America making gun laws today. The majority of the population does not hunt anymore, most do not attend gun related events. Lots of people will say that they think individuals should own guns but when you quiz them as to what that means they have many different answers.
Again the NRA does not make gun laws, they have very little influence. They get blamed by lawmakers as supporting lots of different gun laws that they did not agree with. At 4.3 million they are not going to scare many politicians. They are deamonized by many folks out there that are hired specifically to demonize them and others. They are doing battle with a growning giant that will be hard to ever defeat. In my opinion they are our best chance to retain gun ownership for a long time to come.
Unless there is a major effort to form a unified force of gun owners to legally oppose the liberal lawyers intent on disarming America this country will lose all gun rights within the next 50 years. In my humble opinion.
My analogy to the CCW situation...
The world is overpopulated, so imagine the government outlaws childbirth. Anyone who gives birth or fathers a child will be tried as a felon. After great public outcry, the government sets up a "birthing permit" system. Couples can pay $100 for a parenting class and then another $200 or so to apply for a Birthing Permit. After they pass a background check, and maybe some blood tests and DNA profile, they may be issued the Birthing Permit to have children.
We will have four kinds of people as a result of this system:
#1. People that don't want to have children, or are too scared to have them, and will never need to participate in the system.
#2. People that like the system because they feel it makes them safer, makes their neighbors more accountable and responsible, and makes them feel "special" because they are "priviledged" enough to qualify for the permit.
#3. People that hate the system because it violates a basic human right and injects goverment into matters which it should have no business or control over. Yet these people still go along with the system and keep their mouths shut so that they can live their lives and fulfill the basic need to procreate.
#4. People who openly oppose and violate the new system, either out of financial hardship or rejection on principle, have children anyway, and thus risk being caught and convicted and losing everything they have.
I would probably find myself in category #3. And yes, I do have a Nevada CCW, and in fact just applied for a Utah non-resident CCW which will give me reciprocity in about a dozen other states. I don't like the fact that I had to pay upwards of $500 for these "priviledges", but I feel my right to self-defense and defense of my family is important enough to jump through these hoops. It isn't right, I shouldn't have had to do it, but in the end I will be armed LEGALLY.
The government knows exactly who I am, they know exactly what I own, but they don't know if I am in category #3 above or if I am in category #2. Meanwhile, I will keep my head down while they expend their resources identifying and rounding up those people in category #4.
-WoundedWolf
quote:Unless there is a major effort to form a unified force of gun owners to legally oppose the liberal lawyers intent on disarming America this country will lose all gun rights within the next 50 years.
To return to those principals that existed when our government was first formed would take another Boston Tea Party.
I think that pretty clearly defines the problem and the solution.
One more comment on COMPROMISE (which has been mulled for years on this forum)....
Back when Cardinal Ratzinger became the new Pope Benedict XVI, a very liberal co-worker of mine made the comment, "So much for abortion!".
This comment confused me very much. Despite the fact that Cardinal Ratzinger is a very hard-line conservative Catholic, I couldn't imagine ANY pope, regardless of how liberal, going along with abortion. But this is an insight into the mindset of the radical liberals in our society. In my liberal co-worker's mind, she actually BELIEVED that a liberal pope might endorse abortion!
The sad truth is that in a few decades, the liberals may actually be able to incrementally force the Catholic Church into buying off on abortion. We have seen the same results of incremental compromise in our gun rights. This is the danger of compromise. It may not seem so bad at the time, but it is destroying our posterity. What may at first be seen as a grudging compromise is taken as NORMAL by the next generation. And eventually you get to where we are today, where most of society has no real understanding of what their basic rights are, not to mention any inkling of what it would be like to FIGHT for their rights.
Listen to what Highball says about compromise. It is a very real threat to all of our rights.
-Woundedwolf
Sometimes, when I see the "dullard" parents that exist, I have been of the opinion that one should need a "permit" to have a child in this day and age.
Obviously, that would be unconstitutional to a major degree. The only thing I WILL say is,............I am getting tired of paying for people that can't afford the children they create, and feel like someone else should pay their way, and provide all kinds of benefits to them, because they were, and are,........irresponsible. Some of these folks can't even take care of themselves, much less raise children.
That is where the "little demons", that have no soul, or concern for anything, but themselves, are coming from. Don't think I need to mention the benefits we give to illegal aliens, for their children, and the fact that if a "Burrito" mama, happens to be able to get her butt across the border, and drop the umpteenth child,........that child is now a US citizen, just like we are, and we are going to pay out the wazoo, for everything they want, and need!
This country is trying to create a "Utopia", which will never exist on this earth. We will fail, but it will turn us into a third world country, in the process.[;)]