In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

Person to person sales

djreroccdjrerocc Member Posts: 16 ✭✭
edited February 2008 in Gun Rights and Constitutional Law
I really want to purchase a pistol to go shooting with. I have been shooting for a few years with my step father, so I took advantage of turning 18. I am 18 years old and own a 12 gauge and a bolt action 30-06. But to get down to the question, am I legally allowed to purchase a pistol? I have been told that I can buy from private owner.

One thing I do know is that Florida law allows private firearm sales between individuals, without requiring any processing through an FFL. Florida is a very unique state with there laws connected to Firearms. I am a proud member of the NRA as of a few months ago, and am just trying to support my 2nd ammendment rights!!

Does anybody know if I am allowed to purchase a pistol?
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • shootuadealshootuadeal Member Posts: 5,291 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    no, you cannot BUY a handgun yet, but you can own a handgun. what that basically means is that someone, like mother/father, has to buy one for you as a gift. anyone who sells you a handgun is putting themselves at major risk of going to jail.

    on a side note its great that you are into guns and the nra. dont listen to all the nra bashers on here, the nra is still the best weve got to protect our rights.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Djrerocc;
    Wecome to the forums.

    Now..you want a pistol. You belong to the NRA..
    you already have received a pre-emtive strike, attempting to discredit those of us pointing out the faults of the NRA.

    Perhaps, as an intelligent young man, you would prefer to do a bit of research into the NRA..instead of listening to what you are told.

    Much of that research is presented right here in this forum.

    Now..back to you being 18 and unable to buy your own pistol.

    You may well be shocked to discover that the NRA supported that law..barring you from that pistol.

    Have a good day, young Sir...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,769 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Classic HB, just classic. couldn't have said it better myself. A+
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,769 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Djrerocc,

    Welcome Aboard!

    I will second what Highball stated. In additon to that, I will tell you that most on this board who are disgusted with the NRA are labeled as "NRA bashers."

    If the definition of a "basher" is one who states well documented historical facts and brings the truth to light, then yes, we are guilty of being "bashers".

    Djrerocc, there is a lot of research you can do that will support what many of us on here have stated regarding the NRA, and for the sake of brevity, i will not post it here. You can do a search of the forums and find all of it.

    The facts are out there, and they are ugly; real ugly. While some of us on here are viewed as a threat to "gun rights", the real threat comes from the organization that claims to "Fight daily for your RTKBA rights", yet has supported a multitude of the restrictive legislation on the books.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931 ✭
    edited November -1
    Regardless of the answers above, yes, you can purchase a handgun in a private party transfer. You just can't purchase from an FFL.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • djreroccdjrerocc Member Posts: 16 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    My step father is a member of the NRA and has been for over 20 years. He is who encouraged me to join, although I wanted to stand up for my second amendment rights also. I do not want to go off topic, but I do know there are people trying to take our rights away.

    Anyways all I want is a pistol to shoot at the range. I do realize that you have to be 21 in order to get a CWP. What is the worst that could happen if I am driving to the range with a Glock 23, and I get stopped by the police? As long as I have a bill of sale and the serial number runs clean, there should be abosolutely no problems. As long as its stored in the trunk in a case with a triggerlock. No ammo in weapon or readily accessible.

    Anyways Highball, what part of the US do you live? The laws do vary everywhere, but regardless I can purchase from private party. It may be a little sketch, but I want my step father to purchase a brand new one, and resell it to me. What do you think would happen in the situation I mentioned above?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    djrerocc,
    Welcome to the forum.

    Here is a quote from the BATF website.

    quote:(F6) Does a customer have to be a certain age to buy firearms or ammunition from a licensee?

    Yes. Under the GCA, long guns and long gun ammunition may be sold only to persons 18 years of age or older. Sales of handguns and ammunition for handguns are limited to persons 21 years of age and older. Although some State and local ordinances have lower age requirements, dealers are bound by the minimum age requirements established by the GCA. If State law or local ordinances establish a higher minimum age, the dealer must observe the higher age requirement.

    They talk only of buying from a dealer. I have not found anything in their rules prohibiting you from purchasing from a private party.

    I know you are over 18, but here is another quote from the BATF site.

    quote:(B14) May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?

    Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles generally may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.

    Again, I have not found anything either endorsing or prohibiting a parent from purchasing a firearm for you, being between the ages of 18 and 21. The BATF is very vague about the rules for anyone of that age, leaving it up to the state in most cases.

    Consider though, on the form 4473, that your step-father has to fill out when purchasing the firearm, one of the questions reads....

    quote:Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning. You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person.

    It goes on to say that it is a felony to do so.

    The BATF says that a parent can purchase a firearm as a gift to their child, but they turn right around, and say it is a felony to do so, because they are buying it on behalf of someone else.

    Are you beginning to see why getting a "one size fits all" answer is difficult?
    Then there are your state laws.


    P.S.
    Have you read the NRA thread in this forum?
    If in doubt, do your own research, then make up your own mind.

    MANY of us have been/were members of the NRA for decades, just like your step-father. Have him read the thread too. WE DIDN'T KNOW, until someone told us. [;)]
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:Anyways Highball, what part of the US do you live? The laws do vary everywhere
    I am from Tulsa, Oklahoma.

    Read Pickenups post, above..valuble information, there.

    You really need to check you state laws, also...they will be online.

    As mentioned, the Federal laws are vague dealing with private sales to under 21...but one must be careful assuming that just because it isn't clearly spelled out it is 'legal', under the color of law.

    I had bought a half-dozen handguns by 18..different world then what we have today.

    Also, having someone else buy you a new handgun fits the bill for a 'Strawman Purchase'...something the BATF loves to bust...if they decide they want you.

    No doubt a good lawyer could get you off...if you have 20 grand to spend fighting it.

    By the way...I am a life member of the NRA...and recognize their faults, in spite of that.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • shootuadealshootuadeal Member Posts: 5,291 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    great information pickenup.

    not trying to contradict but after the first question on the form 4473 about being the actual buyer it states SEE IMPORTANT NOTICE 1 FOR DIFINITION AND EXAMPLES.

    IN IMPORTANT NOTICE 1 IT STATES for the purposes of this form, you are the actual buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise aquiring the firearm for your self(for example, redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner) YOU ARE ALSO THE ACTUAL BUYER IF YOU LEGITIMATELY ACQUIRING THE FIREARM AS A GIFT FOR A THIRD PARTY.

    so is the only way for someone 18-20 to get a handgun from a dealer is to have someone gift it to them?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    shootuadeal,
    My copies do not have the "gift" part listed on them, interesting, must have been an update.
    I have to admit, my leftover copies of 4473, might be a little dated.
    I know there have been some changes made.
    (I sent back my FFL, a number of years ago, I will HAVE to get a newer copy of the form)

    Thanks

    P.S.
    Still looks like a gift is the only "legal" way.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • djreroccdjrerocc Member Posts: 16 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Excellent information stated above. Thanks for all the input, I really needed that question cleared up. So, if my step father decides he wants to get me a pistol to go shooting with him, he can purchase one and give it to me as a "gift"? What would happen if I got stopped by a law enforcement officer on the way to the gun range? Is it legal for me to "have" this pistol if its registered to my step father? Or does he sell it to me via a bill of sale? Florida law requires no processing through an FFL for private firearm sales. I am still a bit confused on this.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    djrerocc;
    look..this is an Internet Web site.
    None of us here are gun law lawyers.
    Most of us are not from your state..have no knowledge of YOUR state laws.
    Your entire future rests upon you getting the correct information.

    Call the BATF in your area. Ask your questions from the arm of the Beast that controls firearms..and be damn sure you get the name of the agent that answers your questions.

    You can do as many do..just slide through..but here and there, people get busted for breaking some law they didn't even know existed..and owning guns is then over.

    Congratulations on being interested in firearms. I am deeply sorry that my generation and the generations afead of you have failed you..that we did not consider Rights important enough to fight for them...leaving you having to worry about what SHOULD have been strictly YOUR business.

    That, too, is a legacy of the NRA...and all the gun controllers that pretend to be gun owners. I URGE you to think seriously about the role of gun control in a free society.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Aaron.Combs1Aaron.Combs1 Member Posts: 217 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    hey welcome to the site.... i too am from FL... orlando to be exact. my friends label me as the legal weenie of the group because i know almost every firearm law in FL. as far as the purchase of the handgun by your parents, and then "given" to you, the answer is absolutely yes. for them to purchase it and then you purchase it from them, is a major NO NO and is a federal offence by not only you but your parrents. now will the BATF really know about this? possibly not. However you did bring up a point about if you got pulled over. if you had a fire arm in your vehicle and you were pulled over, as long as you were carrying your firearm properly, then there should be no trouble. also if your parrents "gave" you the firearm, i would have them write a letter stating that the firearm was given to you as a gift on his day, with these serial #'s ETC... and carry that leter in your gun case. Untill you turn 21 do not let that leter leave that gun. that is your only 100% insurance. remember, when you fill out the form to purchase firearms at the dealer or wherever it may be, the first question is, "is this firearm being purchased for someone else other than yourself". if your parents put yes because it is for you, then a smart FFL will not sell it to them. if they put no and then sell it to you, then they have lied to the BATF. also if you purchase that said firearm from your parrents then they have 1.) lied on a legal document to purchase a regulated item, and 2.) sold that said regulated item to a minor who is legaly not allowed to purcase that said firearm. 3.) allowed poosesion of a handgun by a minor without direct supervion by someone 21 years or older, or in the event of an orginized hunt, range, or firearms education class. all of these are federal offencs that hold serious penalties. i hope this cleared this topic up. Just dont do it. be safe than sorry. if this helps, here is a district attorney who is a major firearms guru and has a book out there that is used as guidance by OPD, FHP ad many other PD's in FL. http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/ if you have any questions, he can certianly clear up ANYTHING reguarding FL firearms law for you
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DJ, I am not a lawyer (Mom & Dad were married, so I am disqualified) HOWEVER- the BATF regulates sales by LICENSED DEALERS- they do not regulate sales by private individuals that take place face to face in a common state of residence. In that case, Florida law does cover it.
    Link to Florida code: Click here for code
    Florida DOES appear to NOT regulate firearm sales as long as you are 18. Can your folks buy a gun as a gift to you from a licensed dealer? YES- a true gift is NOT prohibited by Fed law (Gents giving advice, go to the ATF website, view their tutorial on strawman sales) Can you give your folks money to buy a gun FOR you from a dealer- NO. As a matter of practicality, the letter from folks in the gun case is a REAL good idea (have daughter with different last name that drives a car registered in my name- she has a letter like that in glove box) DO check with the Florida State Police- the BATF cannot speak to STATE law. Again, this is only Florida law- not a Jacksonville city ordinance, etc. Sure as heck does not apply in Cook County IL- and you are right- laws vary by state. BTW, a firearm, unloaded, locked in the trunk- is not a concealed weapon- it IS covered by a Fed law- search the term "peaceable journey". And be VERY careful on relying on internet advice- including mine. Do your own checking- and good luck, and good shooting.

    Edited ONLY to shorten link.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.